I agree with you about Roy Thomas, EICs shouldn't get credit. Following Roy's argument, they should consider giving all EICs the creator credit. For example, give Stan Lee credit for Punisher because he suggested a name change from Assassin to Punisher while being EIC. Fantastic Top Ten!
As this is an episode about credit where its deserved .. I'd argue number three should be Byrne & Austin together, that art is a collaboration, Terry Austin always made Byrne look great.
Larry, Forbes magazine ran an article on this situation a few months ago. In it they excerpted an interview a with Herb Trimpe from 2012. When asked about the creation of Wolverine he stated that the idea pretty much came from Roy. He said that Roy came up with the idea that The Hulk would be fighting a short, ill-tempered Canadian character with metal claws that came out of his fists & his name would be Wolverine. He had John Romita design it & Len Wein write the script. Herb drew that issue. If Roy had not created the concepts for the character, then Len would not have had anything to write about & Romita would have nothing to design. Roy in the article says he's not getting any money for the character he just wants his contributions acknowledged. Herb in that interview said that Len did breathe life into the character but for me personally it was all four who created the character. Other creators like Chris Claremont refined the character but for me Roy's reputation remains untarnished. He's not taking away anything from the others.
I agree with everything you are saying, but what people complain about is that his contributions are pretty much part of what any editor does, but being part of their job, they never get any credit unless they explicitly write or draw (they do get the blame when things turn out not to work.) I do think a case could be made, if only the people involved were alive, which is another thing Mr. Thomas is being criticized about, why didn't he looked for credit when he could have the endorsement of the other creators? They were not like, e.g. Liefeld (who wants sole credit for Deadpool,) so they might have given it to him if his claims were real. As I said, that's something people like Mark Waid have said. I personally tend to give Mr. Thomas the benefit of the doubt since, as far as I know, he's a stand up guy. On top of that, I honestly don't care who created it, because I give 95% of the credit to Chris Claremont anyway.
@@marcelo-ramos So you're saying Stan Lee gets no credit even though both Ditko and Kirby say his contributions were minimal at best? Roy came up with most of the defining elements of the character. There would be no character called Wolverine if not for him. Nobody else thought of it.
@@williamjackson6705 Stan Lee was the writer and wrote the words. His credit is not under question here (although it often is for other reasons). I have no horse in the race. I would be on Mr. Thomas side if I had to choose. I just pointed out what people are upset about.
@williamjackson6705 - That is a most interesting bit of info on the Trimpe interview! Thanks for posting this. I would LOVE to be proven wrong about the situation as I do love Roy's work a great deal. I will have to look for that article.
Roy is taking a page from his mentor Stan Lee's playbook. No disrespect intended, we humans all have flaws, and this doesn't subtract from Stan's actual colossal contributions to Comics (I think if there's a Mount Rushmore of Comics, Stan unarguably belongs there), but Stan also in many instances loved exaggerating his contributions to several characters.
I thought this interview might have taken Roy out of context. I think he was saying he should have came first because he first came up with the idea which is true and even Len Wien has said as much. I don’t have a problem with him getting co-credits because he actually did help create Wolverine, he’s been saying it for years and other people have supported his claim. So let him get the credit. He’s not going to be making any money off royalties from this at all, it’s simply just giving his credit. I don’t care about how things used to be, there was a lot of backwards practices that changed over time. When someone looks at who did what they will see Len Wien was the writer and Herb was the artist. They will see Roy was the editor and if they look further they will see all the ideas he added in the creation of Wolverine. I see nothing wrong with letting everyone know the truth. People should know if someone helped with the creation of a character. Also of note, in a recent interview with dollar bin bandits, Roy was saying that Chris Claremont should probably get the most credit for Wolverine because of how he turned the character into we know today. So even Roy agrees with you about #1. I figured you would put Byrne at #2 and Hama #3.
Interesting. I guess I am trying to look at the big picture and who actually made Wolverine into what we recognize as the character overall. I think he deserves to be on the list...just not the first. But I can understand the argument.
Hey, nice idea for a video. Well, I don't really care about the creator credit, tbh (as long as money isn't involved.) Focusing on who created a character is missing much of what the character turns out to be. Let's face it, Rob Liefeld created a pretty mediocre character, but Joe Kelly and others turned him into a beloved character deserving of his franchise. Regarding your choices, I agree with most of them, and I did guess the top 5 😬. Claremont not only deserves to be added to the list, but to replace it altogether.
Great list, Larry!
Thanks Deathtone!
Interesting top ten. Glad you included Jim Lee because it is true. To me his X-Men is how they should all look.
I get it! very iconic
I agree with you about Roy Thomas, EICs shouldn't get credit. Following Roy's argument, they should consider giving all EICs the creator credit. For example, give Stan Lee credit for Punisher because he suggested a name change from Assassin to Punisher while being EIC. Fantastic Top Ten!
Thanks so much!
As this is an episode about credit where its deserved .. I'd argue number three should be Byrne & Austin together, that art is a collaboration, Terry Austin always made Byrne look great.
Absolutely - one of the greatest inkers ever!
Larry, Forbes magazine ran an article on this situation a few months ago. In it they excerpted an interview a with Herb Trimpe from 2012. When asked about the creation of Wolverine he stated that the idea pretty much came from Roy. He said that Roy came up with the idea that The Hulk would be fighting a short, ill-tempered Canadian character with metal claws that came out of his fists & his name would be Wolverine. He had John Romita design it & Len Wein write the script. Herb drew that issue.
If Roy had not created the concepts for the character, then Len would not have had anything to write about & Romita would have nothing to design. Roy in the article says he's not getting any money for the character he just wants his contributions acknowledged. Herb in that interview said that Len did breathe life into the character but for me personally it was all four who created the character. Other creators like Chris Claremont refined the character but for me Roy's reputation remains untarnished. He's not taking away anything from the others.
I agree with everything you are saying, but what people complain about is that his contributions are pretty much part of what any editor does, but being part of their job, they never get any credit unless they explicitly write or draw (they do get the blame when things turn out not to work.)
I do think a case could be made, if only the people involved were alive, which is another thing Mr. Thomas is being criticized about, why didn't he looked for credit when he could have the endorsement of the other creators? They were not like, e.g. Liefeld (who wants sole credit for Deadpool,) so they might have given it to him if his claims were real. As I said, that's something people like Mark Waid have said.
I personally tend to give Mr. Thomas the benefit of the doubt since, as far as I know, he's a stand up guy. On top of that, I honestly don't care who created it, because I give 95% of the credit to Chris Claremont anyway.
@@marcelo-ramos So you're saying Stan Lee gets no credit even though both Ditko and Kirby say his contributions were minimal at best? Roy came up with most of the defining elements of the character. There would be no character called Wolverine if not for him. Nobody else thought of it.
@@williamjackson6705 Stan Lee was the writer and wrote the words. His credit is not under question here (although it often is for other reasons). I have no horse in the race. I would be on Mr. Thomas side if I had to choose. I just pointed out what people are upset about.
@@marcelo-ramos I see both sides I think
@williamjackson6705 - That is a most interesting bit of info on the Trimpe interview! Thanks for posting this. I would LOVE to be proven wrong about the situation as I do love Roy's work a great deal. I will have to look for that article.
Roy is taking a page from his mentor Stan Lee's playbook. No disrespect intended, we humans all have flaws, and this doesn't subtract from Stan's actual colossal contributions to Comics (I think if there's a Mount Rushmore of Comics, Stan unarguably belongs there), but Stan also in many instances loved exaggerating his contributions to several characters.
I can see that! Just seems like a strange thing to do right towards the end of your days!
I thought this interview might have taken Roy out of context. I think he was saying he should have came first because he first came up with the idea which is true and even Len Wien has said as much. I don’t have a problem with him getting co-credits because he actually did help create Wolverine, he’s been saying it for years and other people have supported his claim. So let him get the credit. He’s not going to be making any money off royalties from this at all, it’s simply just giving his credit. I don’t care about how things used to be, there was a lot of backwards practices that changed over time. When someone looks at who did what they will see Len Wien was the writer and Herb was the artist. They will see Roy was the editor and if they look further they will see all the ideas he added in the creation of Wolverine. I see nothing wrong with letting everyone know the truth. People should know if someone helped with the creation of a character.
Also of note, in a recent interview with dollar bin bandits, Roy was saying that Chris Claremont should probably get the most credit for Wolverine because of how he turned the character into we know today. So even Roy agrees with you about #1.
I figured you would put Byrne at #2 and Hama #3.
Interesting. I guess I am trying to look at the big picture and who actually made Wolverine into what we recognize as the character overall. I think he deserves to be on the list...just not the first. But I can understand the argument.
Hey, nice idea for a video. Well, I don't really care about the creator credit, tbh (as long as money isn't involved.) Focusing on who created a character is missing much of what the character turns out to be. Let's face it, Rob Liefeld created a pretty mediocre character, but Joe Kelly and others turned him into a beloved character deserving of his franchise.
Regarding your choices, I agree with most of them, and I did guess the top 5 😬. Claremont not only deserves to be added to the list, but to replace it altogether.
Hah! Great points Marcelo!
Nice list! Totally agree with you. I might also add John Buscema and Mark Millar/Steve McNiven (for Old Man Logan) to the list
Yes it could go on and on!