Not diagnosed with ADHD. I dont have social RSD(did as a kid tho,) but i definitely have admimistrative RSD 😅 i miss one appointment and it becomes 800% harder to go to the next one
I think that the research and even the construct of ADHD are centered around productivity and producing profit rather than the personal and mental health issues experienced by ADHDers
I had thought that my greatest fear was fear of failure. That's definitely there. However, it turns out that an even greater fear of mine is fear of success, aka the Jonah complex. It's related to imposter syndrome, and has been associated with my worst mood episodes. I have a constant fear of letting success go to my head, which leads to self sabotage as I feel compelled to punish myself to keep my ego in check. This is why it's very difficult for me to acknowledge any positive traits others see in me, to the point where I can't accept a compliment, and I assume people are being insincere.
MTF with ADHD here. HRT did such a *magnificent* endocrinological unfucking of my brain in terms of depression and anxiety, that I’ve only now begun to truly understand my ADHD. Previous to HRT my brain was such a mess that it was too “foggy” and dark to know what was what. The difference is impossible to explain over text comments. Honestly it’s been fascinating AF to experience those changes.
It's honestly such a shame that sex hormones are such a blunt tool. Imagine how many people might have improved mental health from the opposite type of sex hormones than their body naturally makes, but they don't want all the physical effects it would have.
A thought on people-pleasing and manipulation: While people-pleasing is certainly a mechanism for changing how people feel/behave towards you, I think there's an interesting and important distinction to be made between a conscious attempt to manipulate people, and an instinctive self-protection mechanism developed and used unconsciously. My people-pleasing tendencies developed to compensate for some social deficits, in order to avoid being punished for things I couldn't control. I didn't even realize I was doing it until I got into my early twenties, and started actively trying to stop.
My best friend is an extreme people pleaser, but that's because she has trauma from her dad. I won't go into what he was like. but now she constantly people pleases bc she doesn't want to be Berated, yelled at, or abandoned again for 'not being good enough' It's a trauma response, and she wants to stop. She's told me countless times, but it's drilled into her. Also, she has to be the least manipulative person I've met, and trust me my best friend of 8 years b4 her was a toxic people pleaser, she used people pleasing so id be indebted to her in the future, so i know both sides.
Damn... the last few minutes, when you talked about going through university with ADHD/RSD, felt like you were literally describing my life. I dropped out of uni, even though my grades were still good, I just couldn't handle it. I got through school with minimal effort, because just like you it was so easy for me, and on top of that I found most subjects genuinely interesting. And then in uni when suddenly there were people around smarter than me and I wasn't understanding everything immediately and I was getting good grades instead of excellent, it felt like a massive failure. I went the classic route of gifted kid to burned out neurodivergent adult. I'm working on getting back on track, after over a year of nothing but therapy, coping with everyday life and the occasional mini job. I often feel like I've "wasted my potential" and let down my parents and even my past self.
Autistic person here, and I had the exact same experience. I feel like such a failure, but I was always the smartest, that was my only skill, but suddenly I was the dumbest around there
As for speculating the reasons for RSD... Everything that Corry summed up but in addition how about the feeling of failing as a person? When you are scared of rejection and being left out you do your best to manage other people's emotions, or more like have the illusion that you can and must manage and manipulate other people's emotions. And then, after all that effort, when you still get rejected... It's all on you, you've failed despite all your effort. And if all that work can't save you from exclusion the what will? You're doomed. No wonder rejection feels devastating.
Corry on the most recent Lateral episode: yeah we've probably got a psychology episode coming up The very next Sci Guys episode: I have ADHD defo but idk if i have RSD. I'll tell you after I've watched the episode. EDIT: yeah probs
I get why’d you want to not categorize people pleasing as manipulation. Manipulation as a word is more associated with doing things for your own gain, while people pleasing is more to your own detriment. But it is also in it’s purest form, behaving in a specific way to get a known reaction out of another person. I wish RSD was something that could be diagnosed, because I 100% do experience it. I am also autistic and have heard pf that association as well
One thing I'll never rally understand is that when we were first discovering that ADHD was a thing, it was only something that happened in little boys, not adults or girls, but little kids grow up to be adults. Why wouldn't they think that all the little boys with ADHD would grow up to be adults with ADHD? Personally I would be interested in seeing how ADHD developed from young ages to adulthood, whether that was with just one patient growing up or multiple people of different ages. Also this episode is making a whole lot of things make sense. Overly guilty, will break down over embarrassment humor, people pleaser? check, check, and check.
I hate that they kept the "H" when they decided to just pick one name!!!! Granted, I'm an odd xenial cis woman who was diagnosed in 1995 with no "H" and I'm incapable of adjusting that thought...
ADHD has subtypes now. Like there's inattentive ADHD (was previously known as ADD), hyperactive ADHD, and combined ADHD. I have combined ADHD and I've never understood why the inattentive aspect was pitted with something that has HYPERACTIVE in the name when it contradicts that. Sometimes I can't tell the difference between my ADHD and autism so when speaking about it I might not be entirely accurate since I get the traits mixed up, but a lot of other ADHDers don't like the name bc it doesn't really describe how the disorder affects our functioning.
I was told I didn't have ADHD but I am definitely autistic and the descriptions of this are resonating with me so much more than I would expect them to, especially with the being scared of being told off as a child thing and being very emotional about it.
They did say it's not only an ADHD thing, you can have it and not have ADHD, so maybe you just have Autism and RSD. Or maybe you do have ADHD and that person was wrong. Both are possibilities.
Undiagnosed but fairly certain I have ADHD. Watching this, I now realise I have very much been experiencing RSD to quite a high degree. Avoiding and worrying about rejection or perceived rejection drives so much of my life. It's torturous. Edit: i also struggled with the transition between school and university and turned a lot of that inwards as a self-rejection and feeling of failure
as somebody with rampant, often unmedicated adhd, i am totally in favor of the term "spazz" as a fill in title for being adhd, i do think it's quite descriptive and expressive of the experience
As an autistic person who went to a special needs school that was for children with behavioural difficulties, but mostly autism and ADHD, I don't remember finding people with ADHD annoying. This is actually very naughty, but I remember it being very fun to be able to say certain words that would make them go crazy, and be able to cause chaos and stop the lesson without being held responsible. Oops, sorry about that haha, but bear in mind I was about 7 or 8. Anyway, the most annoying trait to me has always been arrogance. I will absolutely do my best to avoid arrogant people whenever possible, but unfortunately it can be surprisingly difficult as they tend to be pretty bad at recognising that you don't like them.
That last bit is exactly why I have a massive fear of rejection and see it everywhere. I stay away from people I like because I'm terrified they don't like me and my presence annoys them.
I just want to say It's so GOOD To see how far you've come with regards to talking about neurodivergence over the years. From reading papers and DSM criteria, to discussing ND people's experiences and whether it's a disorder or a difference. It just makes me so happy to see. --- I definitely agree that there's an issue with how saying "I'm ADHD" is a bit awkward compared to saying "I'm autistic" and how that matters when it comes to conveying that it's who we ARE as opposed to a "deficit/disorder" we HAVE. Sometimes I just say "I'm ADHD" anyway, but I also like saying "I'm attention hyperactive" which people usually understand what means and I think it describes it better. Lastly, I SO Relate to Corry's description of going from school to college/uni when you're ADHD. I was so good in school, but doing a PhD was SO hard, and at times seemed impossible.
I read a study once, cant remember which one but its said something like children with adhd experience actual rejection like 15 time more then the average child, someone correct me if they know what it actually is
Diagnosed autistic, but I start to wonder if it’s AuDhD or there’s just similarities at play. Then I wonder if it matters. But then again….😂 /cycle continues/
On the topic of people pleasing, l do have a different perspective on it.I don’t intend to manipulate people if I try to please others. In my case I please others because I want people to feel comfortable and for them to be treated well. Throughout my life I was constantly corrected and had to become aware of peoples’ feelings at a young age. As a result of my upbringing and the unfair treatment I got in different settings,I would then try my best not to make feel hurt or to put them through experiences that is not great for them.At the same time, I’m not saying am a saint.Some of the decisions I have made did hurt people. When I realized that I had hurt someone or they have mentioned to me that I have hurt them, I make sure to apologize, resolve the problem and be remorseful for the pain or issues I have put them through.However I have noticed that the people that have hurt me only blame me and they don’t try to look within themselves and don’t even consider that their actions can hurt me, themselves and others. With that being said, what I think is a great thing to focus on as individual and also the people we interact with is to try to improve on the skill of handling conflict, empathy, setting healthy boundaries, communication and understanding.
Do you know anything about Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria in autism? Because I am autistic, not ADHD, but I definitely have that too. And yeah, I am pretty sure trauma takes the most part in it (would also fit to it also happening with autism since autistic people are mistreated a lot too), but yeah, the emotional dysregulation does not help either
The personal story of the school experience really makes me think I probably have ADHD because that’s like 100% my experience (except that I’m not at university yet, so thanks for that anxiety). Because I’m pretty good at school, in fact, excluding sports and Spanish, I only have As. But since first grade until today (currently in 13th grade/doing my A-Levels) I have never managed to do homework regularly, I manage to do one piece of homework only once a semester at most and that’s usually me being bored in other classes. Until now, I have never managed to start learning for an exam earlier than two days before it (and managing that is really rare, I’m more likely to start the day before after dinner because that’s when the panic kicks in of, what if I don’t know anything? What’ll my teacher think? How’s that going to affect my grades and future and life?). I only do well in school because when I pay attention in class I understand everything and I can usually answer the questions when nobody else knows the answer / is paying attention because the teacher will have repeated the question at least thrice already. So you just gotta wait a moment if you weren’t paying attention. And for whatever reason I can always focus really well in exam situations, even when I couldn’t do the same tasks at home because I just couldn’t concentrate that long. So I just don’t know if that means I probably have ADHD or if that’s just me procrastinating. Because I’ve always done well in school except in primary school when the teacher would give us the homework for a whole week on Monday and expect us to structure our week ourselves to have finished by Friday. Three guesses how many times I was missing on Fridays because I was scared of the teacher / of disappointing the teacher. So sorry about randomly sharing my life story here but I’m just so confused because I was always considered the calm and quiet person, so nobody would have expected me to have ADHD, least of all myself. So if anyone has a word of advice it’d be much appreciated.
i probs have ADHD (undiagnosed since when I brought it up to my doctor she said I just need to choose to focus more......) I also think I have Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria (which my doctor then said that I might be too soft and my parents never said no to me...incorrect) lol
This was an important one for me ❤ Thanks so much for covering this the way you do. Always keeping the vibe lighthearted despite the heavy subject matter. Always very well-spoken too. I appreciate each of you sharing your perspectives! Very relatable and validating, to say the least.
I havent finished the episode yet, ADHD brain go brrrrrrrrr, but i remember reading somewhere that there was a potential link between neurodivergence and gender identity difference, is there an episode about this or would one be coming in the future?
I do think you should have had a woman in for this discussion too, as you are mainly talking/joking/speculating about ADHD from the male perspective here, even though you did mention women can now be diagnosed with ADHD. Women/girls often don't present as "annoying" due to ADHD, they present differently. Other than that, great content.
Do you have ADHD? What about Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria?
I have both!!!!
Not to my knowledge, but the episode was very intersting!
Both!
Not diagnosed but shit do I feel called out 😅
Not diagnosed with ADHD. I dont have social RSD(did as a kid tho,) but i definitely have admimistrative RSD 😅 i miss one appointment and it becomes 800% harder to go to the next one
I think that the research and even the construct of ADHD are centered around productivity and producing profit rather than the personal and mental health issues experienced by ADHDers
isn't everything?
REDISTRIBUTE THE ADHD !!
I had thought that my greatest fear was fear of failure. That's definitely there. However, it turns out that an even greater fear of mine is fear of success, aka the Jonah complex. It's related to imposter syndrome, and has been associated with my worst mood episodes. I have a constant fear of letting success go to my head, which leads to self sabotage as I feel compelled to punish myself to keep my ego in check. This is why it's very difficult for me to acknowledge any positive traits others see in me, to the point where I can't accept a compliment, and I assume people are being insincere.
MTF with ADHD here. HRT did such a *magnificent* endocrinological unfucking of my brain in terms of depression and anxiety, that I’ve only now begun to truly understand my ADHD.
Previous to HRT my brain was such a mess that it was too “foggy” and dark to know what was what. The difference is impossible to explain over text comments.
Honestly it’s been fascinating AF to experience those changes.
It's honestly such a shame that sex hormones are such a blunt tool. Imagine how many people might have improved mental health from the opposite type of sex hormones than their body naturally makes, but they don't want all the physical effects it would have.
A thought on people-pleasing and manipulation: While people-pleasing is certainly a mechanism for changing how people feel/behave towards you, I think there's an interesting and important distinction to be made between a conscious attempt to manipulate people, and an instinctive self-protection mechanism developed and used unconsciously. My people-pleasing tendencies developed to compensate for some social deficits, in order to avoid being punished for things I couldn't control. I didn't even realize I was doing it until I got into my early twenties, and started actively trying to stop.
My best friend is an extreme people pleaser, but that's because she has trauma from her dad.
I won't go into what he was like. but now she constantly people pleases bc she doesn't want to be Berated, yelled at, or abandoned again for 'not being good enough'
It's a trauma response, and she wants to stop. She's told me countless times, but it's drilled into her. Also, she has to be the least manipulative person I've met, and trust me my best friend of 8 years b4 her was a toxic people pleaser, she used people pleasing so id be indebted to her in the future, so i know both sides.
I love how this episode is just Corey reading Luke Noah and the rest of us to filth
Damn... the last few minutes, when you talked about going through university with ADHD/RSD, felt like you were literally describing my life. I dropped out of uni, even though my grades were still good, I just couldn't handle it. I got through school with minimal effort, because just like you it was so easy for me, and on top of that I found most subjects genuinely interesting. And then in uni when suddenly there were people around smarter than me and I wasn't understanding everything immediately and I was getting good grades instead of excellent, it felt like a massive failure. I went the classic route of gifted kid to burned out neurodivergent adult. I'm working on getting back on track, after over a year of nothing but therapy, coping with everyday life and the occasional mini job. I often feel like I've "wasted my potential" and let down my parents and even my past self.
Autistic person here, and I had the exact same experience. I feel like such a failure, but I was always the smartest, that was my only skill, but suddenly I was the dumbest around there
@@Hyzentley yup exactly, I haven't gotten over this yet 😐
feeling extra ADHDled today . not really good phonetics but I think if of like addled
As for speculating the reasons for RSD... Everything that Corry summed up but in addition how about the feeling of failing as a person? When you are scared of rejection and being left out you do your best to manage other people's emotions, or more like have the illusion that you can and must manage and manipulate other people's emotions. And then, after all that effort, when you still get rejected... It's all on you, you've failed despite all your effort. And if all that work can't save you from exclusion the what will? You're doomed. No wonder rejection feels devastating.
as a late realised audhd person who deals with rsd with the name noa, i feel very called out 😂
Noah is so real for that BPD joke, I've had that same stupid joke stuck in my head since middle school lol. Good to hear I'm not the only one XD
I love waking up in the morning, watching a thing about mental health and going:
.............fuck
oh so that's what that's called. I always assumed it was a fear of failure, only I don't mind failing as long as no-one is watching/judging.
Corry on the most recent Lateral episode: yeah we've probably got a psychology episode coming up
The very next Sci Guys episode:
I have ADHD defo but idk if i have RSD. I'll tell you after I've watched the episode. EDIT: yeah probs
I get why’d you want to not categorize people pleasing as manipulation. Manipulation as a word is more associated with doing things for your own gain, while people pleasing is more to your own detriment. But it is also in it’s purest form, behaving in a specific way to get a known reaction out of another person.
I wish RSD was something that could be diagnosed, because I 100% do experience it. I am also autistic and have heard pf that association as well
One thing I'll never rally understand is that when we were first discovering that ADHD was a thing, it was only something that happened in little boys, not adults or girls, but little kids grow up to be adults. Why wouldn't they think that all the little boys with ADHD would grow up to be adults with ADHD? Personally I would be interested in seeing how ADHD developed from young ages to adulthood, whether that was with just one patient growing up or multiple people of different ages.
Also this episode is making a whole lot of things make sense. Overly guilty, will break down over embarrassment humor, people pleaser? check, check, and check.
Because the hyperactive part of ADHD often calms down during adulthood making it signifcantly less noticable from an external behaviorial pov.
I hate that they kept the "H" when they decided to just pick one name!!!! Granted, I'm an odd xenial cis woman who was diagnosed in 1995 with no "H" and I'm incapable of adjusting that thought...
ADHD has subtypes now. Like there's inattentive ADHD (was previously known as ADD), hyperactive ADHD, and combined ADHD.
I have combined ADHD and I've never understood why the inattentive aspect was pitted with something that has HYPERACTIVE in the name when it contradicts that.
Sometimes I can't tell the difference between my ADHD and autism so when speaking about it I might not be entirely accurate since I get the traits mixed up, but a lot of other ADHDers don't like the name bc it doesn't really describe how the disorder affects our functioning.
Can we use Dave as an adjective?
Who's Dave?
I was told I didn't have ADHD but I am definitely autistic and the descriptions of this are resonating with me so much more than I would expect them to, especially with the being scared of being told off as a child thing and being very emotional about it.
They did say it's not only an ADHD thing, you can have it and not have ADHD, so maybe you just have Autism and RSD. Or maybe you do have ADHD and that person was wrong. Both are possibilities.
Undiagnosed but fairly certain I have ADHD. Watching this, I now realise I have very much been experiencing RSD to quite a high degree. Avoiding and worrying about rejection or perceived rejection drives so much of my life. It's torturous.
Edit: i also struggled with the transition between school and university and turned a lot of that inwards as a self-rejection and feeling of failure
Yeah ive had RSD most of my life since a little girl x
Ditto
49:24 Outwith is a good Scottish word. I like it.
52:00 aaaaaaaaaah felt that
Dang I got 2 kinds of dysphoria now????
Literally couldn't have come out at a better time for me oml thank ye
as somebody with rampant, often unmedicated adhd, i am totally in favor of the term "spazz" as a fill in title for being adhd, i do think it's quite descriptive and expressive of the experience
As an autistic person who went to a special needs school that was for children with behavioural difficulties, but mostly autism and ADHD, I don't remember finding people with ADHD annoying. This is actually very naughty, but I remember it being very fun to be able to say certain words that would make them go crazy, and be able to cause chaos and stop the lesson without being held responsible. Oops, sorry about that haha, but bear in mind I was about 7 or 8. Anyway, the most annoying trait to me has always been arrogance. I will absolutely do my best to avoid arrogant people whenever possible, but unfortunately it can be surprisingly difficult as they tend to be pretty bad at recognising that you don't like them.
That last bit is exactly why I have a massive fear of rejection and see it everywhere. I stay away from people I like because I'm terrified they don't like me and my presence annoys them.
Every minute of this episode was just a quiet realisation :'D
Super interesting tho, i loved it
YeahHhhhh I feel like I’ve forgotten that I have this this year and omg dude first learning about this absolutely blew my mind
42:01 everytime Deja Vu comes up I have to confess that I've never experienced it before, lmao
I just want to say It's so GOOD To see how far you've come with regards to talking about neurodivergence over the years. From reading papers and DSM criteria, to discussing ND people's experiences and whether it's a disorder or a difference. It just makes me so happy to see. --- I definitely agree that there's an issue with how saying "I'm ADHD" is a bit awkward compared to saying "I'm autistic" and how that matters when it comes to conveying that it's who we ARE as opposed to a "deficit/disorder" we HAVE. Sometimes I just say "I'm ADHD" anyway, but I also like saying "I'm attention hyperactive" which people usually understand what means and I think it describes it better.
Lastly, I SO Relate to Corry's description of going from school to college/uni when you're ADHD. I was so good in school, but doing a PhD was SO hard, and at times seemed impossible.
Corey be calling me out with the people pleasing explanation
I read a study once, cant remember which one but its said something like children with adhd experience actual rejection like 15 time more then the average child, someone correct me if they know what it actually is
Diagnosed autistic, but I start to wonder if it’s AuDhD or there’s just similarities at play.
Then I wonder if it matters.
But then again….😂
/cycle continues/
I was born out of my mother..
🤣 So snarky.. Even if it's fact.
On the topic of people pleasing, l do have a different perspective on it.I don’t intend to manipulate people if I try to please others. In my case I please others because I want people to feel comfortable and for them to be treated well. Throughout my life I was constantly corrected and had to become aware of peoples’ feelings at a young age. As a result of my upbringing and the unfair treatment I got in different settings,I would then try my best not to make feel hurt or to put them through experiences that is not great for them.At the same time, I’m not saying am a saint.Some of the decisions I have made did hurt people. When I realized that I had hurt someone or they have mentioned to me that I have hurt them, I make sure to apologize, resolve the problem and be remorseful for the pain or issues I have put them through.However I have noticed that the people that have hurt me only blame me and they don’t try to look within themselves and don’t even consider that their actions can hurt me, themselves and others. With that being said, what I think is a great thing to focus on as individual and also the people we interact with is to try to improve on the skill of handling conflict, empathy, setting healthy boundaries, communication and understanding.
I have ASD, which includes RSD.
I feel like this episode is calling me out so bad I'm not adhd at least as far as ik I'm not diagnosed
I'm convinced I have ADHD but my psychiatrist dismissed it because I have trauma and did well in school. 🙄
Do you know anything about Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria in autism? Because I am autistic, not ADHD, but I definitely have that too. And yeah, I am pretty sure trauma takes the most part in it (would also fit to it also happening with autism since autistic people are mistreated a lot too), but yeah, the emotional dysregulation does not help either
I never knew this was a thing but if I have it that would explain so much about me
all i have to say is: 🤪🤟
The personal story of the school experience really makes me think I probably have ADHD because that’s like 100% my experience (except that I’m not at university yet, so thanks for that anxiety).
Because I’m pretty good at school, in fact, excluding sports and Spanish, I only have As.
But since first grade until today (currently in 13th grade/doing my A-Levels) I have never managed to do homework regularly, I manage to do one piece of homework only once a semester at most and that’s usually me being bored in other classes.
Until now, I have never managed to start learning for an exam earlier than two days before it (and managing that is really rare, I’m more likely to start the day before after dinner because that’s when the panic kicks in of, what if I don’t know anything? What’ll my teacher think? How’s that going to affect my grades and future and life?).
I only do well in school because when I pay attention in class I understand everything and I can usually answer the questions when nobody else knows the answer / is paying attention because the teacher will have repeated the question at least thrice already. So you just gotta wait a moment if you weren’t paying attention. And for whatever reason I can always focus really well in exam situations, even when I couldn’t do the same tasks at home because I just couldn’t concentrate that long.
So I just don’t know if that means I probably have ADHD or if that’s just me procrastinating.
Because I’ve always done well in school except in primary school when the teacher would give us the homework for a whole week on Monday and expect us to structure our week ourselves to have finished by Friday. Three guesses how many times I was missing on Fridays because I was scared of the teacher / of disappointing the teacher.
So sorry about randomly sharing my life story here but I’m just so confused because I was always considered the calm and quiet person, so nobody would have expected me to have ADHD, least of all myself.
So if anyone has a word of advice it’d be much appreciated.
i probs have ADHD (undiagnosed since when I brought it up to my doctor she said I just need to choose to focus more......) I also think I have Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria (which my doctor then said that I might be too soft and my parents never said no to me...incorrect) lol
This was an important one for me ❤ Thanks so much for covering this the way you do. Always keeping the vibe lighthearted despite the heavy subject matter. Always very well-spoken too. I appreciate each of you sharing your perspectives! Very relatable and validating, to say the least.
I have auDHD :) 😊
I havent finished the episode yet, ADHD brain go brrrrrrrrr, but i remember reading somewhere that there was a potential link between neurodivergence and gender identity difference, is there an episode about this or would one be coming in the future?
12:03 or mistaken for just being "whiney", "a sissy", "on [my] period" :)
omg. this explains so much 😭😭😭😭
I do think you should have had a woman in for this discussion too, as you are mainly talking/joking/speculating about ADHD from the male perspective here, even though you did mention women can now be diagnosed with ADHD. Women/girls often don't present as "annoying" due to ADHD, they present differently. Other than that, great content.
It is not a dysphoria… it is a disorder !
I am also AuDHD
Yes, and probably.
As for a term for people with ADHD I've heard a lot of people use "neurodivergent" or "neuro-spicy"
“Neurodivergent” includes people beyond those with ADHD
I do have ADHD and rsd!
Yes, I have adhd
Adiadic (pronounced ay-dee-ay-dick) works as a word for people with ADHD
Can we not just say "an ADHD person"?