Fun fact: I went to a showing of this musical and Quasimodo's actor was actually deaf! He would sign the lyrics to songs while one of the gargoyles would sing for him. It was awesome
YES!!! They did that for the production in La Mirada. I saw both the La Jolla American Premier with Michael Arden(Director: Once On This Island) and Patrick Page(Hadestown) as Quasi and Frollo respectively. Both hugely talented and the show was great.. Then 2 years later in La Mirada, with a deaf actor speaking the role of Quasi and the lead gargoyle as his singing voice. It was spectacular and a far superior production. Moved me to tears multiple times, with the beauty of the way Quasi was portrayed. The later production also fixed the Chorus/Gargoyles narrative. I still MUCH prefer the Berlin staging, especially towards the end with Made of Stone going right into Someday and Finale Ultimo. But the La Mirada version was GORGEOUS! Thank you Cathy Rigby!! I still feel Disney Theatrical really missed the mark in NOT bringing this to Broadway with no money spared.
@@masterspark9880 I know he does. It’s just that he acted much more like a reasonable person in the musical at first. So the evil parts felt more shocking and real.
@@matthewstanley1521 Not to mention it is a very, VERY real and relatable situation to many, many people. That sort of luring into a false sense of comfort from someone preying on you is unfortunately something too many people experience, and the musical gets that feeling down to such a precise degree that it's HORRIFYING, honestly the cringe I felt watching that made me nearly turn the video off lmao
Gypsy’s were actually treated like trash during this time period as well so being that Frollo is a public figure during this time it really is no surprise
Talking about lust in a child's movie. That was one tough act from Disney. Frollo was a sexual predator. To be fair though nothing about the movie in general was for kids.
@@beast6213 I know this is probably not a super serious comment so don't feel the need to pay any mind to my reply. That said, I feel like it depends on how you define flaw and weakness. Like, the way I personally see it, his shell being shaped/weighted in such a way that he can't get up when flipped over is a flaw, both due to his biological design and his greed, and when he is flipped over it then becomes a weakness. So in a way it's both, to me at least.
@@noahh6186 not sure if this would be the t cubical definitions but for example, Achilles' heel would he his weakness (though it could also be mental/emotional, not purely physical) but his hubris is his flaw (what would ultimately cause or lead to a downfall) but that's just my view on it.
In the original, Frollo and the Archdeacon are the same character, disney essentially split all of Frollo's positive aspects away and turned them into a separate character.
An adaptation that explicitly shows the audience that (playing on him having literally good and bad sides within a cohesive but perhaps fracturing whole) could be utterly brilliant.
which I still prefer over the original way he was, I feel he's a lot better being a corrupt judge than the archdeacon and everything, more enjoyable for me.
Despite the nerfed character, the change was probably a smart commercial move for Disney; it could have alienated Catholic audiences, especially since during that time in the 90's the "pedo priest" controversy was blown full force in the public consciousness.
birdieberry Catholic audiences already felt alienated by the film. Disney should have gone all out and stuck with the serious tone. It would have increased buzz for the film and made it more popular.
I just thought I would point out that the "T-Pose" is supposed to be a parallel with the crucifixion. He obviously sees himself as pious and righteous, as well as the sinless one among the crowd. Every time he does something where you question his morals, he parallels the crucifixion with his body language. Just thought I would throw that out there.
In the movie version the Bells of Notre Dame says "Who is the monster and who is the man?" The musical says "What makes a monster, and what makes a man." I think that's the perfect example of the differences between the movie and musical.
um yes and no? themovie uses both those lines in the first song in the movie and in the reprisal of the song at the end, the play uses the "what" rather than "who" so yes and no
the reprise of bells at the end uses ‘what makes a monster and what make a man’ the intro to the movie is clopin telling a story to some kids, so he uses that ‘who is’ as some suspense for the story, coming full circle at the end to show the *real* message
In both musicals "Who is the..." was used in the opening Bells of Notre Dame "What makes...." was used in the final song/reprise of Bells of Notre Dame
Atleast the actors probably didn't hear it, typically auditoriums and theatres are constructed to project sound outwards, not bring them into the stage
Fun fact about Frollo: The Disney executives intentionally made Frollo as evil as possible because they wanted to remove stereotype and saying that "Evil is cool" among Disney Villains
As a Catholic myself, what I love about the religious aspect of this movie is how instead of looking to god and asking for help and forgiveness, he looks at everyone else and uses paper thin logic to explain how this is their fault or even god’s fault for making him feel this way. A textbook narcissist who can’t have an arc because he refuses to change and looks at himself as god.
Pride is known as the chief sin for a reason. Lucifer could have remained one of God’s best and most beloved angels, but instead he put his own ideas above God’s and tried to overthrow Him.
There's something that i find interesting that I saw in the video, Schaffrillas says that Frollo gets crazier as his lust progresses and this is what sin is, a deordinated passion that if given enough time, makes the person mad as we see with Frolo in the plot. There's also some supernatural stuff in the plot like the gargoyles in which I genuinely think are a Guardian Angel.
Esmerelda was also discovered to be the long lost daughter of the woman who initially tried to have her imprisoned. The woman is later stabbed to death when she realizes the truth because she tried to protect Esmerelda.
Djali!! Yes the goat was the main reason Esmeralda was put on trial for witchcraft because the people of medieval france couldn't understand teaching animals tricks.
There are many people in real life even today who hate Romani people for no reason. Just because he doesn’t have a reason to hate them doesn’t mean it’s unrealistic for him to hate them
5:48 Sometimes you don't need motivations. Back in Europe, Gypsies were widely disliked, you don't need to give specifics in your movie about why they were disliked because sometimes you don't need a reason and it works better in blind hatred.
That's usually how it works in real life. But when telling a fictional story, I guess it works better if there are some explanations. Makes it more interesting and compelling to the audience.
You really don't need to speak in past tense when talking about Europeans blindly hating 'gypsies'... (also; some people consider that a slur and prefer the name Romani)
I love how it shows how two extremely different people can see a person and perceive them in entirely different ways based on their morals/upbringing/beliefs, like, even as Quasimodo was raised by Frollo with Frollo's ideals + teachings, he wasn't a carbon copy of him and had his own views +values.
Disney's most human and realistic villain! The fact that he's so complex and that world has had a history of highly misguided religious zealots. Is what makes Frollo relatable and terrifying.
That's what I thought first too. What bothers me in the musical is that Quasimodo is shown to be more delusional in the musical (I haven't seen it, but the stuff I've heard bothers me) like his gargoyles urging him to kill Frollo...
I *have* read the book. I'll clear up some things as I go. First, Quasimodo wasn't related to Frolo in the book. In the book, someone abandoned him as a baby on the steps of the cathedral and all of the nuns wanted to kill him, but Frolo took him in. This put a wedge between him and many other members of the clergy because they thought the child was a demon and Frolo had made a contract with it by taking it in. Frolo had this driving need to help people, even at risk to himself in the book, so this was in keeping with his character. He at one point even went so far as to risk infection during the Black Plague to help comfort and heal the sick - as much as they could heal for the time period, anyway. Frolo had no problem with gypsies in the book, as far as I recall, that was a change made in the book's first film adaptation that just kinda stuck. In the book, his real personality flaw was gynophobia. Not sexism, actual gynophobia - he was terrified of women and the idea of being with them. It was more than just religious fervor, because he would be actively combative with the nuns and other women that worked in and around the cathedral. His conflict with Esmeralda wasn't because she was a gypsy, but because she was a woman, but he used the fact that she was a gypsy and gypsies were disliked by the populace to stir up hostility towards her in the community. And it all was just because he happened to look out the window and see her and think, "oh, she's kinda hot." That thought created a kind of cognitive dissonance in him that he couldn't resolve and at first he just tried to drive her away, but when none of his attempts worked, he tried more aggressive strategies, getting more and more insane over time until he tries to kill her. His descent into madness is a huge tragedy in the book, because he ends up getting not just himself, but everyone he cares about killed as a part of his obsession. And it was all so needless. All he had to do was let it go, but he couldn't do it. "Frolo still has his 'a lesson needs to be learned' bit." Also different in the book. In the book, Frolo isn't even there. Quasimodo gets arrested by the police for trying to help Frolo kidnap Esmeralda, but when he sees the police coming, Frolo ditches Quasimodo and leaves him to take the blame alone, never going to see him on the pillory because he doesn't want to implicate himself. I can't remember if Frolo felt bad about this, or if he was too far gone at that point, because the novel is a bit non-linear with how it reveals Frolo's whole story and I can't remember the exact order of events. I think this might have been the moment that Frolo starts to go over the edge, though; letting his adoptive child take the fall for him is the first really serious thing he does (before it was just harassment) and I think that's what drives Frolo into the notion that he's damned himself and thus convinces himself that he deserves Esmeralda because - in his rationale - she tempted him into evil, so she owes it to him. Yeah, the book is pretty on point about the way men like him think about women. In the book, Esmeralda does claim sanctuary in the Cathedral, but not from Frolo. At least, not directly. She flees the police because they believe she murdered Pheobus, when it was actually Frolo who stabbed Phoebus and then framed her for the murder, hoping she'd get sent to prison and not be around town anymore. Phoebus, for the record doesn't die, but they still go after her for attempted murder. And that's the point where Frolo just straight up attempts to rape her and is stopped by Quasimodo. That's the final breaking point, because that's the moment where Frolo realizes he's jealous of Qausi and is like, "Welp, I'm a lost cause, might as well just go scorched Earth on everybody."
Very interesting, thanks for the summary! But now I am grieving that there isn't a more book accurate adaptation out there. Some small changes could be made, there are some sensitive themes that most people would rather avoid and I get that. But boy, this sounds so much more complex and interesting
@@GigiBranconiAlso, in the book, Claude does have a brother. A 16-year-old (or so) brother, who... Yup, sliding downwards, as Claude thinks, but still really loves him and blames himself, Esmerelda and his lust for her for Jehan's death (well, he joined the Court of Miracles and was killed), so it's totally complicated
Frollo was really an amazing villain, both appearance and personality-wise Reminds me of what my Mom told me once, "The Devil does not appear as a scary abomination, It appears as a tempting drink of water." Basically the Devil does not look scary, the Devil sugar coats things. Literally taking form of what we view as a good figure Hence Frollo's character overall. "Some of the worst things imaginable have been done with the best intentions." - Dr Alan Grant, Jurassic Park III
My mom expressed similar to me growing up, as well as "the road to hell is paved with good intentions." Look at your impacts not your intentions. Bc it doesn't matter what your intentions were if your impacts are horrible.
I completely disagree. Making Frollo evil from the very start and showing him progressively get worse just hammers home the fact that these types of people are never self-aware of how wicked they are. Making a villain sympathetic doesn't automatically make them complex and I really wish that type of thinking would die. Frollo was 3 dimensional because of how realistic his portrayal was. He's so convinced he's right that he fails to see how wrong he is. This results in him committing almost every sin by the end of the movie despite constantly emphasizing his righteousness. And even with how deplorable Frollo's actions are. He still feels human due to his mindset very much being prevalent in real people. I agree that the theatre adoption of him was great. But I very much prefer the movie Frollo. Him being their evilest villain is why so many people give the movie praise. Adding on to why I disagree that he was too evil. Other than that, great video. It's nice to see your take on him.
Fr! It’s that bullshit where Disney tried to give every villain a sad backstory (cough cough, cruella and maleficent) and then idiots in the comments spew sad quotes that villains are “misunderstood”. Okay? But the villain attempted murder/murdered people, idgaf if their story is sad lol
While that is a fair assessment of how movie Frollo was shown in his cruelty and underhanded villainy, it falls victim to one assumption, that movie Frollo doesn't feel like he's doing something wrong at any point, part of what makes Hellfire so great is that it's not just him grappling with the fact that he's feeling, in his opinion, such fallible emotions that any common man or sinner would have, but even more so towards someone he doesn't even give the full benefit or acknowledgment of being human, simply because they don't believe the way he does, being torn between what he's feeling now and the fact that feeling the very feeling itself is against what he believes in, and even entertaining this feeling means his worldview of himself is shaken as he is now just like any other member of the vulgar weak licentious crowd, he is but a man, falling to his base instincts, his sins, his damnation. He entertains the notion for just a bit, that he feels he is failing in his duty/authority as a judge of the wicked, but then he turns it into his own self conclusion that he is the judge of the wicked, so he must be right in what he is feeling, he is gaslighting himself at this point, thus begins his failure in seeing his error and true sin. In this way, as is echoed in the mantra of the movie, who is the monster? Frollo goes from being an arrogant prideful despicable person in cunning control of his inner demons and directing them upon who he deems as wicked through his dirty dealings, to a monstrous villain who has lost all control of his inner beast, and is being mindlessly driven by his puppeteering emotions, base human drives, and his mighty demons. Musical Frollo is still better as he shows a more reasonable descent into this thing he becomes, and it's a lot more impactful as he was originally someone who could've turned off this path like Schaff said, but as he just keeps going, it really shows how the worst of monsters are the ones that used to care, but no longer do.
@@samcochran8203 I hate to be rude but could you please use paragraphs and spacing. This was a wall of text that was very hard to read. As for your point, you've just described all the reasons why the movie Frollo is better in my eyes, no offense. It's not unrealistic for Frollo to be a despicable person from the start. Zealots all throughout history have shown to not alter their thinking in the slightest due to narcissism and pride. I don't understand why it's so hard to accept some people simply put are awful. They don't need a reason to be, they just are and too blindsided by their own wickedness to change. Movie Frollo was a much-needed reminder of this. And I thank Disney for showing just how messed up he is without sugar-coating it. Schaff is free to believe that the play version is better, anyone is. I still rightfully stand by the movie version though.
@@himdevil2391 @Himdevil23 no rudeness put across, I totally do that sometimes with my whole giant text boxes, but as to why I put forth all the reasons behind Frollos villainy you had written before, I just felt the need to clarify a bit why I think he was aware of his faults, whereas you said he wasn't, or at least he was not totally admitant of how awful a person he was, I feel he was aware, he just justified it as his duty to be judge and punisher of those he deemed wicked in the ways of his belief. And for sure people are realistically despicable that way without reason nor care of changing, no offense taken at all. But as to why you think movie frollo is more villainous, I put forth one point that I'm gonna try to put across in a more understable way, I just want to see your take on it. Who would you deem as a more villainous person? Between 2 people, 1 is someone who was malicious cause their just an ahole to everyone no matter what, was already convinced they way of being ruthless is vindicated, and starts to go off the rails in a way that's not entirely out of character or out of turn for them. Number 2 is someone who genuinely wanted to do better at first, was antagonistic towards a lot of certain people because of their past trauma they associate with those people, who then slowly becomes worse and worse and just ends up not caring anymore, because they justify things and trick themselves into believing they are in the right, which ends up all culminating due to them secretly harboring a great and unreasonable hatred for the people they attribute their trauma to, trauma that other people cannot control nor be held reasonably responsible for. Who would you say is truly more villainous? Something I like to think about in reference to questions like this, who is more evil, the one who never could be bothered to be good, or the one who doesn't care about being good anymore?
@@samcochran8203 Well of course the one that didn't care in the first place. With no empathy for others, there's a lot of destruction that they leave in their paths. And you're just left questioning how lower they'll stoop and rooting for their downfall.
God's word didn't create a Nicolaitan heirarchical structure, which Jesus said He hated. Even Peter never lorded himself over the flock, nor was he ever a pope. The counterfeit system, is that of demonism with a veneer of belonging to God. As satan desired, to be 'like' the most high. Satan copies the things of God, creating counterfeits, and redirects mankind's worship of God, onto himself. Even in the book of Revelation, his desire is to put himself in the third temple (which will be built in the end times) in Israel and declare himself to be God. But you're right, there are plenty of people who wield spiritual authority over people, but not in the truth. The book of Jeremiah speaks about this. Even the movie...the Book of Eli shows that wicked people can be aware that when people think they have some kind of special mediatorship between God and man, that they can become figures of great authority. We see this with the institution of the popes, and even Muhammad's supplanting of the Israeli religion, to put himself and his views in place of it.
I like how Frollos character in the musical offers an explanation for Quasimodo’s personality. One small thing that always irked me in the movie was how nice and kind and normal Quasimodo acted. Being raised by frollo who was neglectful and manipulative at best as well as being in constant isolation should have absolutely fudged him up. He shouldn’t have been able to hold a conversation, much less be a functioning member of society. With frollo actually being somewhat ‘nice’ in the musical, it makes a lot more sense in that regard.
Because it shows that he didn't see Frollo as a villain since he "saved" him, never really knew his mother who actually saved him, and just because you grow up in a toxic household--or Quasi's case, technically growing up in a toxic household--doesn't automatically mean that you'll turn out exactly the same way.
TheCheck7 I agree, but I think the film would benefit by showing at least one moment indicating that Frollo wasn’t always 100% evil, because nobody is at the start. Like idk, he hates gypsies because one killed his family or something. Or he was actually all about justice but then gradually lost himself and became an irredeemable mess.
@@literallygaston2489 No, because some people are just evil. And you can't help it, maybe not from the start but nothing needs to happen for someone to be evil. Some just are
@@literallygaston2489 But there's no need to have a gypsie kill his family, or it being justified. Hating gypsies was a product of his time. It would be ok to give him something that makes him less evil - like him caring a bit about quasi for example - but I really disagree with trying to tie his hate of gypsie to a backstory. Not every racist hates a certain group because they had a personal history with them.
After watching this, I realize this could actually be a Disney movie that could actually _use_ a remake, if they take after the stage musical adaption.
Frollo wasn’t “too evil” for the movie, he was just a lot more visibly evil. The hypocrisy and his self-righteousness is still there, but the movie made his evil intentions a lot more visible because it’s advertised to kids and also because they didn’t have the time to flesh out his character
They did flesh out his character though. Even went as far as going into his psyche and his literal subconscious in the Hellfire scene. The cloaks chanting "mea culpa" were Frollo's subconscious trying to become conscious in order to get him to stop.
In Hugo's original book, Frollo is a good caring guy. It's not until Esmeralda arrives that he BEGINS to turn evil, and then is completely evil in the third act Edit: Thanks for the likes, guys :D
@Krista Star No, he actually was a good human being in the book before Esmeralda popped up, but his delusions and lust drove him mad. It's not Esmeralda's fault, obviously, but it's what happened.
While this is not WRONG it also def isn't RIGHT. He didn't become evil, he always was. He just acted on it because his racism and classism (and also sexism) gave him an excuse to act on his dark desires and disgusting fetishes.
@@na.thalie.m Nope. Book clearly states that he was a pious man who adopted and raised Quasimodo out of pity, even taking the brunt of the townspeople who viewed him as a freak for taking in such a monstrosity as his son. Book also clearly notes how he slowly fell into his irrational and "evil" state only after he met Esmerelda and became lustful and jealous of Phoebus and later Quasimodo.
Claude Frollo was much more sympathetic in the book compared to both the movie and the play as he took to Quasimodo with altruistic motivations. We see his struggle with his unruly brother, who constantly asked Frollo for money. In the novel, Frollo found Quasi in a window display in an orphanage and adopted him out of pure empathy, not because he was related to him. He went on to teach him sign language when Notre Dame's bell's ruined Quasi's hearing. But he had this irrational fear of women, which led him to resent/hate Esmerelda while at the same time harbor this obsession with her. This led to his inevitable, violent downfall. He's such a good, Icarus-like villain. I've loved him since the movie and even more so after I read the book years ago. I'm so glad you discovered this version of him!
Religion is like a knife. In the hands of a chef, it can be a tool for compassion, beauty, and wonder. In the hands of a murderer, it can be a tool for violence, suffering, and division. If someone uses religion to make lives miserable, it’s not necessarily their religion that is making them awful. It’s the way they wield it.
Yep, everything can be twisted into a weapon of hatred by people who only want an excuse to make others miserable. Most notably religion and politics. I'm Catholic myself, but I despise with passion people that use their faith to justify their hate for others.
The choir was actually one of the main reasons why the show didn't make it to Broadway, because it cost too much money to pay so many actors and the creators didn't want to cut the choir out... So sad
The reason: He's the most realistic and human of all the Disney villains. Like, most of the villains are magicians, gods, and other fictional beings. There can be, however, real life corrupt religious zealots that have a lot of power. It's also, as I said, realistic, because THOSE TYPES OF PEOPLE ACTUALLY EXISTED AND STILL EXIST, with the Inquisition, the Salem Witch trails, ect. Frollo hits too close to home, to his lustful obsessions paralleling to church members of the past, and some even to this day.
Soooo, what the musical version is, as this video very explicitly points out :V The Disney film version is a monstrous, cartoonishly so, rendition of these sorts of people. Not to say there isn’t people out there in the world who aren’t unironically as vicious and hateful and disgusting as the film rendition, but the musical version is the one closer to a tangible reality, a tangible uncomfort, and why the movie version is “too evil”. It plays that card too hard.
Frollo is very good in the beginning of the novel. He teaches the deaf Quasimodo sign language and has philosophical discussions with him. Throughout the book, he slowly succumbs to temptation and madness. It's a very sad novel.
@@fruzsimih7214 Phoebus was just an outright villain. There's nothing redeemable about him in the book. The movie Phoebus is a completely different character who just has the same name and job description.
"how many t-poses does movie frollo do" I think Patrick Page just does that, at one point in Hadestown Hades shouts loud enough to cut off power and his stance choice is, in fact, a t pose.
@@tophatcat1173 Read about Heinrich Kramer. Aka the author of the "Malleus Maleficarum". The man responsible for making witchcraft a feminine crime all because he was a clearly sexually repressed individual. So much so that his one and only witch trial he made prior writing the book, was dismissed as he was clearly obsessed with the sexual activities of the accused. She got away, he got salty about it, therefore he had to tell the world that woman are essentially the bane of evil. What a prick.
Eh...more like it superverted his expectations. It improved upon his expectations and gave more depth rather than take away from the original. (but that said, I get the joke, laughed at it, etc. Not an r/whoosh situation. ;) )
Huh, I always thought Disney's Frollo was loved Because he was pure evil (like Maleficent, The White Queen or the Evil Stepmother), not because people viewed him as complex. Maybe that was just me.
Oh, he was a complex character, I mean to me he’s the most real Disney villain there is... There were people in middle ages just like him and they weren’t deemed the villains at the time and that’s the dark part, that it was real....
@@celestiacrystal9317 very true, he maybe don't be a character as complex as the musical or book. But he's indeed one of the most realistics and complex villain in Disney.
Sure Frollo may not be that complex, but I am still gonna love Hellfire forever and the voice actor who did an amazing job. (not to mention I love how he is animated)
the only thing I fundamentally disagree with is Frollo needing a reason to be racist. Having a neat little reason for the sake of narrative works great for fantasy media with fantasy races (think DnD) but doesn't really work for this story set mostly in real life. Sinti and Roma were historically hated all across europe for being "others". Like how certain racial and ethnic groups were and still are hated all across the world, for no personal reason beyond them being part of those groups. Most people in Nazi Germany didn't have a deeply personal reason to hate the Jewish population. The hate originated in stereotype and discrimination and culminated to a hatred that lead to violence and genocide. It was the same for Sinti and Roma people. So no I don't think Frollo needs a reason for the hatred that was commonplace among people of that time, because it kind of downplays the fact that people don't NEED reasons to be racist. Because there is no rime or reason, no logic to racism as a whole.
"Most people in Nazi Germany didn't have a deeply personal reason to hate the jewish population " Seeing as Nazi Germany was a Christian nation, yes. Yes they did. It's called THOSE WHO KILLED CHRIST. THE SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN.
@@hannahlarocco4699 it was an example of a racist group in history that hated people for purely racist/antisemitic reasons, to proof that Frollo having a personal reason for his racism is not necessary. It's a weird thing to try to give a bigot an actual personal and (arguably) understandable reason to hate an ethnic group/race, when that is almost never the case in history. It frames Bigots like Frollo as "Oh he's just a bad apple" when the bigotry against Romani people in Europe was a systematic issue, not a individual one
A bit of trivia: When Frollo is insisting "It's not my fault!" the hooded chorus reply. In medieval latin. It translates to "It is my fault. It is my fault. It is my most severe fault."
@@vylbird8014 the whole song had a chorus singing a prayer in latin and greek. it begins with a contrast, because he starts the song praising himself while the chorus confesses sins to god, mary and the saints. they sing Kyrie eleison while Frollo sings "God have merci on her/on me". beautiful and haunting. best damn song ever
Fun fact, they changed the golden rule in school, it’s now “treat others how they want to be treated” probably due to the jokes of “what if we want to be treated poorly?”
School in general never really believed in that rule, either version. If any school I ever went to said it more than once ever or actually tried to hammer it into us at any point, the hypocrisy of it all would blind the staff.
chincherrinas the play itself combines elements of the book and the play (Claude Frollo’s younger brother Jehan is an important character and someone whom Frollo is fond of, and the ending is similar to the book) but with their own unique twists on it
I didn't watch the musical, but I've read the book. Man, you'd be surprised. The book kinda makes you feel pity of Frollo. For example, Quasimodo isn't his nephew, just a poor baby left in the front of Notre Dame by his family, that didn't want him -- and while people passed by and laughed at him for being ugly, Frollo was the only one who saw that baby as an human being. So, Frollo genuinely cares for Quasimodo (more than Esmeralda does). He is really religious and try to be humble and good. But everything changes when he meets Esmeralda, so slowly he becomes this mad monster. You can almost believe him when he says she is the Devil trying to seduce him -- of course, Victor Hugo makes a much more complex story than that, and we can see that's not Esmeralda's fault, but we can really feel Frollo's pain in throwing his life and his values away for his mad "desire" for a girl.
There’s also a parallel with Frollo to Quasimodo. In the book, they’re BOTH outcasts. Over the years Frollow becomes more obsessed with alchemy, and, while still well respected, people fear and avoid him, much like they do with the hunchback. He becomes more isolated and twisted over the years.
Frollo is one of the best villains in a Disney movie because of how realistically evil he is. And Hellfire is easily the best villain song of all time. Right up there with Tamatoa and his "Shiny" song of course.
I would argue that Frollo in Disney is about as complex as a Disney character can get, given the other factors moving the plot forward, as well as creating and developing the other characters and their relationships. Frollo is straight out evil yes, but what makes him complex in the Disney film is that he twists the ideology of faith into justification of both his actions and hatred for gypsies and his additional desire to eradicate them. Hellfire is great in showing this complexity because not only is he fighting between his faith and belief (and hatred for Gypsies too) and the twisted lust he has for Esmeralda, but between what could be considered his ‘good’ and ‘evil’ consciousness. It is the sole reason for his struggle in that number, he knows what he feels is considered bad and the consequence for giving in to them will result worse for him, but his desire and use of twisted justification makes the argument that they deserves all that he is about to do to them, that *she* deserves it. So it makes for a very interesting character I think.
I understand why people like the more "human/relateable/sympathetic" villain. But my favorite villains will always be "I'm bad and I love it!" villains. Why? because they're simply more fun. I wish Disney would bring these villains back. We need a mix of both.
Also, in Frollo's case, there's really no need of complexity. Why does he hate the gypsies? Because it's 15th century France and EVERYONE hates gypsies. Why is he creepy and lust-y from the get-go? Because he wants to, and it doesn't seem like anybody's got a problem with it. I mean, I enjoy the whole "see from the other's perspective" thing in fiction, but sometimes you just don't need it. Some people are truly evil for no reason, they don't see a problem with the way they are and nothing can change them. Making them sympathetic antagonists makes them worse - less scary, less thought-provoking, and yes, less fun to watch
@@split776 In my opinion it's much scarier for Frollo to be more sympathetic though, especially since the disney version made him less complex than the original. Frollo was originally intended to be complex, they didn't just change it for this musical. I think the character is more fun to watch because the war within himself between his godly duty and his earthly desires is more prominent.
MetallicaFan657 plus with these modern tragic villains , they send a message that “no one is truly bad” and “evil doesn’t actually exist” witch is a dangerous outlook on life
The actor who played Frollo is Patrick Page. He's also in Hadestown, the new musical that just leaped from regional to Broadway and is up for 14 Tony's. Oh, and he plays Hades. A villain even more complex and twisted and fascinating than Frollo
I wouldn't call Hades twisted, or even a true villain... He certainly has good intentions, albeit misguided. He's definitely one of the most complex characters in theater though.
Elise B I think he just wants to be with his wife in the beginning and then the power gets to his head and it twists him into a greedy capitalist overlord who ruins people’s lives and convinces them to sell their souls.
@@bymeerabrowngothicroyal exactly. He's trying to do what he thinks Persephone would want but gets caught up in it all. Hadestown ends with a hint of redemption for him when he promises to try again.
I totally agree. The most terrifying villains are the ones that mirror real-life abusers, especially subtle gaslighting that's hidden behind normal kindness.
The first time I saw the Hunchback Of Notre Dame was in French class, and we were watching the French dub so of course none of us knew wtf was going on. And even though we couldn’t understand them, when Frollo sniffed Esmeraldas hair we all went “Hey, woah what the hell?” As a class 😂
Julia Erickson Same here lol. I was the only one who knew how to speak fluent French since I grew up in France. So after class I had to explain what was going on to everyone.
yeah in the book Frollo though a jerk was actually a decent guy at first, he raised his younger bro (spoiled rotten but still) & adopted Quasimodo...but then he went insane over Esmeralda &....yeah, the musical is pretty much perfect
@@CJCroen1393 oh yeah totally he was still a grossly religious bigot but I just meant for the time period he treated the kiddos he was in charge of well overall especially his bro Jehan
Since this is from the same guy who wrote Les Miserables, it's not surprising that Frollo, like Javert, was written as the more relatable sort of antagonist who really wants to be the hero of the story but just falls short in some way, instead of just saying, "Hey guys, who's up for some evil?".
@@inthecloudz1272 Why doesn't the name match the profile pic? Because the pic is of a man being tortured, which has nothing to do with friendship. His pic should be a picture of friendship and/or happiness.
But he is far less manichean than he his in the adaptation if I recall, he raised Casimodo as his son. Also, are you sure he decided to hung her ? I thought it was about her taking the blame for Phoebus stabbing ?
Holy shit the “this child is my cross to bear” part hit me. The sheer subtle shitheadery in that sentiment is staggeringly realistic. Just look at those certain religious mothers of autistic people, looking at their offspring as a burden that they are obliged to love rather than an actual person. Definitely one of the scariest real life sentiments expressed in a movie.
Honestly, that sentiment covers a lot of parents of disabled children not just autistic kids. Far too many of those parents see their children as a divine "punishment" or sin that they must carry with them. Even strangers fall into this trap. One of my favorite Tiktokers, @crutchesandspice, has cerebral palsy and she cannot remember the number of times random strangers said they'd "pray for her."
Joey Teter, Hellfire, Out There, Prince Ali, (Reprise), and Be Prepared were great Disney villain songs in my opinion, and I thought that Poor Unfortunate Souls and Gaston were mediocre songs.
Frollo: "And He shall smite the wicked and plunge them into the fiery pit!" God: "Took the words right out of My mouth. Tell Satan the Lord sent ya, Frollo."
People don't like Frollo because he is complex. They like him because he describes a very real, very twisted form of evil that they have probably seen in their own lives. Hellfire helps us understand how his evil functions, how we can put it into context in our own world, and how he contrasts with Quasimodo. For a 91-minute film, we really don't need to understand the depths of the character, and having him be so spectacularly evil helps the audience understand him better with less time. The ant scene, in particular, works at conveying how his religious convictions don't function out of love for others, but out of his understanding of power. He fears God, because God could squish him like an ant, and he thinks those below him ought to fear him, because he can do the same. It may not be a nuanced take, but it is a profoundly human characteristic that is conveyed in such a small moment.
@@Tarnished-bn5gq I mean, there is a distinction between enjoying the aesthetics and effects of an awful person in a narrative and enjoying the experience of being around or being affected by such a person in real life. Also, people aren't morally straightforward, we don't just want heroes that represent the best virtues a person can have, we also want people who represent that which we hate, that which is weak about us, and that which we secretly kind of want to be but wouldn't because, you know, empathy and whatnot.
I also saw this musical, and in it they made Quasimodo deaf Oh and the actual cast member was deaf IRL it was really cool One of the statue things was like a translator 10/10
Out of the Olympians, he's arguably one of the best in terms of morals. While others are unfaithful, war starting, mortal-smiting, maiden-raping monsters... He only harmed heroes when they specifically broke rules he informed them of. In some versions of his story, Persephone was in on him planning to marry her. Cerberus means spotted, and the name he used for Persephone means honey. Guys. His dog's name is Spot and he calls his wife Honey. Can we please agree to stop considering him to be a villain?
I've been so conflicted when it comes to Disney's Hades ever since I found out about this. He's my favorite Disney Villain character wise, but originally he was a sweetheart. I get that Disney has the Death=evil and evil should be evil for evil's sake, but couldn't they just use a titan as I'm well aware that they wouldn't Hera.
I was so confused how we got talking about hadestown but understood a bit bc, ya know, patrick page, but actually i’m an idiot and completely forgot that he talked about hades from hercules 🤦♀️
Patrick's performance of Hellfire is very intriguing. He performs as if his attraction and heartache are causing him physical pain. As if...there were an actual fire burning him from the inside. Movie Hellfire is great because, I think it's a representation of his insanity. They're both good performances but I think it depends on what you look for in a villain.
You need to watch the production with Joshua Castile. Makes me cry every time I watch a clip. Takes a totally different approach as Quasimodo is deaf, which would have been historically correct. He is played by a Deaf actor, and the gargoyles act as his translators. Sounds a little weird but it works perfectly. I can’t talk highly enough about this show and I wish I got the chance to see it. You should check it out!
I honestly liked the changes Disney did, they showed how some people use religion to a excuse of their acts, and also, Disney changed not only Frollo but a lot of others things like Quasimodo not being deaf, Esmeralda being pureblood gipsy (while in the book she was adopted by them) and the end. Both can be good, don't need to exist a "better than"
I like the idea of Frollo. He's a character that shows that just because you believe in a God, doesn't mean you can't be a horrible person. His character shows how religious people will try to be good and act good because they're scared of where they're going after death (Heaven or Hell in a Christian sense), more-so then actually wanting to be a genuinely good person just out of human nature.
I guess you are talking about movie Frollo? Book Frollo straight up didnt care after a while. At one point he tells Esmeralda "L'enfer ou tu iras, j'irai aussi. Et ce sera mon paradis" (the hell you'll go to, I shall go too. And this will be my paradise) He knows he's doing very naughty things, but he's horny af. He wants to be good, but if she's forcing him to be a bad guy (by being pretty and existing), he'll be the bad guy. Also book 35yo Frollo frames 16yo Esmeralda for assault on an officer and then, when she's about to be executed tells her "c'est moi ou la potence" (it's me or the gallows). So, you know, exemplary citizen.
I think this is pretty generalizing. It's not just the fear of eternal damnation that is the cause of decent human behavior, religious or not. What I believe to be the connection between frollo and religion is how he justifies his actions, as a fight against devil (esmeralda) Frollo's vile nature also stems from the abuse of power, whether he is a judge or a priest.
My favorite part of the movie is how the two frollo and (is it esmerelda?) Contrast. Her song about religion including someone like her Contrasts the frollo song. He represents the fanatic and hateful follower, she is the gentile hoping for saving and not rejecting the religion simply because of how she is treated by a member in it. I love that song
I'm late to the party but here some insights: Disney's Frollo is fantastic, but he is a different sort of person, he is a noble in the position refered to as "minister of justice" (not a real title) and hence a judge. The Frollo in the novel is the archdeacon of Notre Dame, he legit takes in Quasi as an abandoned infant and genuinely cares for him. This is where the real tragedy sets in. That child he put so much effort in suddenly becomes an enemy to him because he gets carried away by his lust for Esmeralda who is actually executed at the end. It's here that Frollo stands on the Notre Dame, laughing and giggling, and it's here where Quasi shoves him off the cathedral. I love the disney version, it's fantastic, but it's a different character.
![Why Judge Claude Frollo is the Best Disney Villain [The Hunchback of Notre Dame]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/fGwrZEMi05o/mqdefault.jpg)
Why is there a large crowd of people lining up at my door asking for money
Uncultured Swine Entertainment considering you're a swine, you must be a piggy bank.
OwO
I love your profile picture. It’s such a powerful image.
It’s the man, the myth, the legend....
The pig.
Cause I'm the one holding the gun
Fun fact: I went to a showing of this musical and Quasimodo's actor was actually deaf! He would sign the lyrics to songs while one of the gargoyles would sing for him. It was awesome
Bro was this in Seattle???
It happened at a showing I watched years ago too! :D
Thats awesome!
That's amazing!
YES!!! They did that for the production in La Mirada.
I saw both the La Jolla American Premier with Michael Arden(Director: Once On This Island) and Patrick Page(Hadestown) as Quasi and Frollo respectively. Both hugely talented and the show was great.. Then 2 years later in La Mirada, with a deaf actor speaking the role of Quasi and the lead gargoyle as his singing voice. It was spectacular and a far superior production. Moved me to tears multiple times, with the beauty of the way Quasi was portrayed. The later production also fixed the Chorus/Gargoyles narrative. I still MUCH prefer the Berlin staging, especially towards the end with Made of Stone going right into Someday and Finale Ultimo. But the La Mirada version was GORGEOUS! Thank you Cathy Rigby!!
I still feel Disney Theatrical really missed the mark in NOT bringing this to Broadway with no money spared.
When Frollo said “You could stay here, with me” and reached his hand towards hers, my stomach dropped so fast I needed to catch my breath a little
I know right??!! Gosh it was so awkward oooOF
Rina
It wasn’t really cause of awkwardness per se, more like it genuinely surprised, scared, and disgusted me to that extent.
I don’t think you’ve watched the movie then. He does much worse stuff than that
@@masterspark9880
I know he does. It’s just that he acted much more like a reasonable person in the musical at first. So the evil parts felt more shocking and real.
@@matthewstanley1521 Not to mention it is a very, VERY real and relatable situation to many, many people. That sort of luring into a false sense of comfort from someone preying on you is unfortunately something too many people experience, and the musical gets that feeling down to such a precise degree that it's HORRIFYING, honestly the cringe I felt watching that made me nearly turn the video off lmao
“Why does he hate Gypsies in the movie?”
Idk man he’s French it ain’t that much of a stretch
Gypsy’s were actually treated like trash during this time period as well so being that Frollo is a public figure during this time it really is no surprise
I don't even know what the fuck a gypsy is.
@@pesciisthebestcharacter5100 then you don’t have any reason to comment
@@nekogaming5300 can you tell me what it is?
@@pesciisthebestcharacter5100 Gypsies are a nomadic folk of Europe
If that's him "resisting her", I'd hate to see him NOT "resisting her".
Holy cow, you're right-
Your one true god Cthulhu oh, that’s that scene where he literally tries to rape her...yeah
Talking about lust in a child's movie. That was one tough act from Disney. Frollo was a sexual predator. To be fair though nothing about the movie in general was for kids.
@@heyheyheyheyheyhey76 except the gargoyles
@@jeremysworld3061 tbh the gargoyles in hunchback were even that bad except for the stupid fat one.
Frollo : *stabs Phoebus*
Also Frollo : Why would Esmeralda do this?
Sounds like an Eric Andre meme to me.
10/10 great use of the meme
Who killed Phoebus?
lmao perfect
Frollo: (stabs Phoebus)
also Frollo: Esmerelda, why'd you stab him?
Drowing a baby in a well would also contaminate the water supply. So evil.
Oh, damn. I didn't even think about that!
Mina Brunkhorst Me either
we were all to focused on the immediate evil we didn't see the evil lying underneath
Oh shit-
*shudders* how-how hOrRiBlE!!!!
"Villain who has no flaws"
Uh excuse you, Tamatoa can't flip over when he's on his back, I'd say that's a pretty big flaw.
It's because he's the true hero of the movie
He's just to powerful to be left free
that's not a flaw, it's a weakness, which is different
@@beast6213 I know this is probably not a super serious comment so don't feel the need to pay any mind to my reply. That said, I feel like it depends on how you define flaw and weakness.
Like, the way I personally see it, his shell being shaped/weighted in such a way that he can't get up when flipped over is a flaw, both due to his biological design and his greed, and when he is flipped over it then becomes a weakness. So in a way it's both, to me at least.
@@noahh6186 not sure if this would be the t cubical definitions but for example, Achilles' heel would he his weakness (though it could also be mental/emotional, not purely physical) but his hubris is his flaw (what would ultimately cause or lead to a downfall) but that's just my view on it.
In the original, Frollo and the Archdeacon are the same character, disney essentially split all of Frollo's positive aspects away and turned them into a separate character.
Does make kids less likely to develop trust issues of any adult that's nice to em
An adaptation that explicitly shows the audience that (playing on him having literally good and bad sides within a cohesive but perhaps fracturing whole) could be utterly brilliant.
which I still prefer over the original way he was, I feel he's a lot better being a corrupt judge than the archdeacon and everything, more enjoyable for me.
Despite the nerfed character, the change was probably a smart commercial move for Disney; it could have alienated Catholic audiences, especially since during that time in the 90's the "pedo priest" controversy was blown full force in the public consciousness.
birdieberry Catholic audiences already felt alienated by the film. Disney should have gone all out and stuck with the serious tone. It would have increased buzz for the film and made it more popular.
I just thought I would point out that the "T-Pose" is supposed to be a parallel with the crucifixion. He obviously sees himself as pious and righteous, as well as the sinless one among the crowd. Every time he does something where you question his morals, he parallels the crucifixion with his body language. Just thought I would throw that out there.
Great observation
T-pose on those sinners
Yeah he just making a joke
Beata Maria. You know I am a righteous man.
No, T-posing gets rid of the sin in any room
"my child, though your people are lost, there may be something in you that can be saved." did frollo just "you're one of the good ones" esmeralda?
Yuuuuuuuuuup it would seem that way
By the way, your profile picture is great
Yup. That's exactly what he did.
@@Call-me-Al Ha, I know right? Trans Wirt ftw 💜
😬
"The kind of evil that doesn't realize that it's evil, is the worst kind of evil there is."
- Weather Report -
Is ThAt a MoThErFuCkInG JoJo ReFrEnCe
@@silverthedruid4754 yes
First- funny jojo refrene momento Xd
Second- reminds me of handsome jack from the borderlands video game franchise.
Do you believe in gravity?
the duality between Pucci and weather
In the movie version the Bells of Notre Dame says "Who is the monster and who is the man?" The musical says "What makes a monster, and what makes a man." I think that's the perfect example of the differences between the movie and musical.
The “What makes a Monster and what makes a man?” Line is actually used in the reprise of Bells of Notre Dame.
What makes a movie and what makes a musical
um yes and no? themovie uses both those lines in the first song in the movie and in the reprisal of the song at the end, the play uses the
"what" rather than "who" so yes and no
the reprise of bells at the end uses ‘what makes a monster and what make a man’
the intro to the movie is clopin telling a story to some kids, so he uses that ‘who is’ as some suspense for the story, coming full circle at the end to show the *real* message
In both musicals
"Who is the..." was used in the opening Bells of Notre Dame
"What makes...." was used in the final song/reprise of Bells of Notre Dame
Shout out to that guy who coughed through every scene of that musical.
Poor guy let him cough. I know the struggle of trying to retain a cough just to not be annoying
💜
Atleast the actors probably didn't hear it, typically auditoriums and theatres are constructed to project sound outwards, not bring them into the stage
The UA-cam wanderer.....
@@thelittlemanfromthedraftbo6805 yup
Fun fact about Frollo:
The Disney executives intentionally made Frollo as evil as possible because they wanted to remove stereotype and saying that "Evil is cool" among Disney Villains
The bad guy is an unlikable religious fanatic. Yes.
It didn't work. I still love villains
@@Ari-vc5lg Haha disney
same thing probaly on removing be prepared from live action lion king
But he has one of the best songs.
As a Catholic myself, what I love about the religious aspect of this movie is how instead of looking to god and asking for help and forgiveness, he looks at everyone else and uses paper thin logic to explain how this is their fault or even god’s fault for making him feel this way. A textbook narcissist who can’t have an arc because he refuses to change and looks at himself as god.
Same!!
Pride is known as the chief sin for a reason. Lucifer could have remained one of God’s best and most beloved angels, but instead he put his own ideas above God’s and tried to overthrow Him.
There's something that i find interesting that I saw in the video, Schaffrillas says that Frollo gets crazier as his lust progresses and this is what sin is, a deordinated passion that if given enough time, makes the person mad as we see with Frolo in the plot. There's also some supernatural stuff in the plot like the gargoyles in which I genuinely think are a Guardian Angel.
Catholic but you write God with the small g.
@@RandomGuy-ej5drhe even mispelled catholic.
Its spelled pedophile*
PS: in the novel, Esmeralda is 15 years old, kind of naive, and absolutely infatuated with Phoebus who tries to take advantage of her sexually
wat
Aaaaand then he leaves her for a wealthy french noblewoman. And Frollo ends up killing her.....
that girl truly can't catch a break huh ;-;
DJ GAMER Yeah
Emmi the Cat Frog I wanted to beat EVERYONE up in that damn book. Especially the author character
Esmerelda was also discovered to be the long lost daughter of the woman who initially tried to have her imprisoned. The woman is later stabbed to death when she realizes the truth because she tried to protect Esmerelda.
“Movie Frollo never T-poses!”
*Shows only clip of movie Frollo T-posing*
*Also shows footage of movie Frollo T-posing at the ground*
@@yeethittter1285 yeah. Frollo is prostrating eg a sign of the penitent
Power of God is his strength.
*T-pose to assert dominance*
It's more of a V pose
*Did I miss a character?*
My strange brain: yes,the goat
It was in the original book? Does that help?
The goat was a major character in the book. No really.
Djali!! Yes the goat was the main reason Esmeralda was put on trial for witchcraft because the people of medieval france couldn't understand teaching animals tricks.
@@Mark-ye2tn
:0
Well I’m sorry to disappoint you, but there’s no goat in the musical
There are many people in real life even today who hate Romani people for no reason. Just because he doesn’t have a reason to hate them doesn’t mean it’s unrealistic for him to hate them
Though I am sure people in real life have (both understandable and dumb) reasons to hate romani people or anyone in general
It’s like he forgot that racism was a thing for the duration of this video 😬
Also the therm can be quite offensive, so maybe he should have used another one.
@@catalayalafaye5337 No.
@@spencerfrankclayton4348
The proper word is Roma I believe, with "Gypsy" being widely considered offensive.
5:48 Sometimes you don't need motivations. Back in Europe, Gypsies were widely disliked, you don't need to give specifics in your movie about why they were disliked because sometimes you don't need a reason and it works better in blind hatred.
That's usually how it works in real life. But when telling a fictional story, I guess it works better if there are some explanations. Makes it more interesting and compelling to the audience.
It was probably an idea that was taught to him.
ya they were basically like the Jews at the time...
You really don't need to speak in past tense when talking about Europeans blindly hating 'gypsies'... (also; some people consider that a slur and prefer the name Romani)
Funny how you said BACK in Europe gypsies WERE. Like Europe is still racist af. Unfortunately.
And honestly, frollos death in the play was iconic.
Frollo: you don’t want to hurt me...
All the gargoyles in unison: _yes you do_
Chills every time
Nyssa R C it shows what a lifetime of abuse can do to people and also “I told you master I am very strong.”
And then comes the most chilling rendition of the main theme of the musical. It got to me without fail every time.
wait what does that mean
DAAAAAMNAAAAATIOOOOOON!
Okay but the lead up! shivered at “and the WICKED shall not GO UNPUNISHED” made me gasp
Heaven's light vs Hell fire. I love that they literallyade their songs opposites to show the effect she had on them, showing their true intentions.
If you think about it, both songs speacknabout "love" and the need of affection, but in complete oposite ways
I love how it shows how two extremely different people can see a person and perceive them in entirely different ways based on their morals/upbringing/beliefs, like, even as Quasimodo was raised by Frollo with Frollo's ideals + teachings, he wasn't a carbon copy of him and had his own views +values.
"Who is the monster and who is the man?"
@@doctorwholover1012 Fun Fact: Disney confirmed that movies Frollo is based on Amon Goeth from Schindler's list!!!!
@@doctorwholover1012 nature vs nurture!
(cough, *megamind*, cough)
Disney's most human and realistic villain! The fact that he's so complex and that world has had a history of highly misguided religious zealots. Is what makes Frollo relatable and terrifying.
And he’s based off of schindlers list’s depiction of Amon goeth who was a lot tamer than the real deal
‘Relatable’
@@user-qv2mc3dw5o where u ever bullied as a child?
relatable
Yep, he is scary human
Actually, Disney *Intentionally* made Frollo as evil as possible to get rid of the "Evil is Cool" stereotype
Too bad it backfired because Frollo is clearly the coolest
@GAY MEMEIUS
It's the closest we get to cool
That's what I thought first too. What bothers me in the musical is that Quasimodo is shown to be more delusional in the musical (I haven't seen it, but the stuff I've heard bothers me) like his gargoyles urging him to kill Frollo...
@GAY MEMEIUS Hell Yeah it is! ( pun intended )
@@TheRitva26 I feel so bad for laughing at this
Frollo: *starts singing HELLFIRE*
Notre dame cathedral: *sweats intensively*
Okay that was a good one xD
Too soon m8, too soon
@@SandwichYum-23 ur probs the same person who says it's too soon to make Holocaust jokes.
Holocaust ... Just can't be funny... Without reaching by calling it a Clown Holocaust
@@jairoavila6092 r/woooosh
"Abusive father figure who shows concern for his son but more for his reputation"
That just sounds like Buck from Chicken Little.
*A year later* "Don't worry, they'll get over it..."
“That was his mistake!”
Also Leopold from Amadeus, possibly?
Buck Mccluck likes to fuck
Just proves there's a good way to do it, and a _very bad way_ to do it.
I *have* read the book. I'll clear up some things as I go.
First, Quasimodo wasn't related to Frolo in the book. In the book, someone abandoned him as a baby on the steps of the cathedral and all of the nuns wanted to kill him, but Frolo took him in. This put a wedge between him and many other members of the clergy because they thought the child was a demon and Frolo had made a contract with it by taking it in.
Frolo had this driving need to help people, even at risk to himself in the book, so this was in keeping with his character. He at one point even went so far as to risk infection during the Black Plague to help comfort and heal the sick - as much as they could heal for the time period, anyway.
Frolo had no problem with gypsies in the book, as far as I recall, that was a change made in the book's first film adaptation that just kinda stuck. In the book, his real personality flaw was gynophobia. Not sexism, actual gynophobia - he was terrified of women and the idea of being with them. It was more than just religious fervor, because he would be actively combative with the nuns and other women that worked in and around the cathedral. His conflict with Esmeralda wasn't because she was a gypsy, but because she was a woman, but he used the fact that she was a gypsy and gypsies were disliked by the populace to stir up hostility towards her in the community. And it all was just because he happened to look out the window and see her and think, "oh, she's kinda hot." That thought created a kind of cognitive dissonance in him that he couldn't resolve and at first he just tried to drive her away, but when none of his attempts worked, he tried more aggressive strategies, getting more and more insane over time until he tries to kill her.
His descent into madness is a huge tragedy in the book, because he ends up getting not just himself, but everyone he cares about killed as a part of his obsession. And it was all so needless. All he had to do was let it go, but he couldn't do it.
"Frolo still has his 'a lesson needs to be learned' bit."
Also different in the book. In the book, Frolo isn't even there. Quasimodo gets arrested by the police for trying to help Frolo kidnap Esmeralda, but when he sees the police coming, Frolo ditches Quasimodo and leaves him to take the blame alone, never going to see him on the pillory because he doesn't want to implicate himself.
I can't remember if Frolo felt bad about this, or if he was too far gone at that point, because the novel is a bit non-linear with how it reveals Frolo's whole story and I can't remember the exact order of events. I think this might have been the moment that Frolo starts to go over the edge, though; letting his adoptive child take the fall for him is the first really serious thing he does (before it was just harassment) and I think that's what drives Frolo into the notion that he's damned himself and thus convinces himself that he deserves Esmeralda because - in his rationale - she tempted him into evil, so she owes it to him.
Yeah, the book is pretty on point about the way men like him think about women.
In the book, Esmeralda does claim sanctuary in the Cathedral, but not from Frolo. At least, not directly. She flees the police because they believe she murdered Pheobus, when it was actually Frolo who stabbed Phoebus and then framed her for the murder, hoping she'd get sent to prison and not be around town anymore. Phoebus, for the record doesn't die, but they still go after her for attempted murder. And that's the point where Frolo just straight up attempts to rape her and is stopped by Quasimodo. That's the final breaking point, because that's the moment where Frolo realizes he's jealous of Qausi and is like, "Welp, I'm a lost cause, might as well just go scorched Earth on everybody."
Very interesting, thanks for the summary!
But now I am grieving that there isn't a more book accurate adaptation out there. Some small changes could be made, there are some sensitive themes that most people would rather avoid and I get that.
But boy, this sounds so much more complex and interesting
@@GigiBranconi He really is. I love the book. I read it usually once a year.
@@GigiBranconiAlso, in the book, Claude does have a brother. A 16-year-old (or so) brother, who... Yup, sliding downwards, as Claude thinks, but still really loves him and blames himself, Esmerelda and his lust for her for Jehan's death (well, he joined the Court of Miracles and was killed), so it's totally complicated
Anyone: Twist
Schafrillas: T H A T W A S H I S M I S T A K E
Shrek: T H A T W A S M Y M I S T A K E
as soon as I read this comment, the "that was his mistake" at the end of the video played
Lyra's Life What’s the time stamp?
1k likes my dude
Frollo was really an amazing villain, both appearance and personality-wise
Reminds me of what my Mom told me once, "The Devil does not appear as a scary abomination, It appears as a tempting drink of water."
Basically the Devil does not look scary, the Devil sugar coats things.
Literally taking form of what we view as a good figure
Hence Frollo's character overall.
"Some of the worst things imaginable have been done with the best intentions."
- Dr Alan Grant, Jurassic Park III
For me I like it since most people tend to rationalize their actions. Even if it is clearly hurting people.
My mom expressed similar to me growing up, as well as "the road to hell is paved with good intentions." Look at your impacts not your intentions. Bc it doesn't matter what your intentions were if your impacts are horrible.
Very nicely expressed, well done , dude
Actual quote, "some of the worst things imaginable have been done with the best intentions."
@@dawdeuce250 That's the one! Thankssss
Here's my stance: Disney Frollo is a better villain, but Novel/Play Frollo is a better character.
Big mood
By "play" you mean the one based on novel, or the one based on Disney film?
@@alyzz9863 He means the one in the play, the whole point of the video 😂
@@bigounce4968 y'know, people in comments section are talking about both Notre Dame de Paris and Hunchbag of Notre Dame, so I couldn't be so sure.
novel > play > movie imo. play’s pretty good but he has half the complexity he does in the book
I completely disagree. Making Frollo evil from the very start and showing him progressively get worse just hammers home the fact that these types of people are never self-aware of how wicked they are. Making a villain sympathetic doesn't automatically make them complex and I really wish that type of thinking would die. Frollo was 3 dimensional because of how realistic his portrayal was. He's so convinced he's right that he fails to see how wrong he is. This results in him committing almost every sin by the end of the movie despite constantly emphasizing his righteousness.
And even with how deplorable Frollo's actions are. He still feels human due to his mindset very much being prevalent in real people. I agree that the theatre adoption of him was great. But I very much prefer the movie Frollo. Him being their evilest villain is why so many people give the movie praise. Adding on to why I disagree that he was too evil.
Other than that, great video. It's nice to see your take on him.
Fr! It’s that bullshit where Disney tried to give every villain a sad backstory (cough cough, cruella and maleficent) and then idiots in the comments spew sad quotes that villains are “misunderstood”. Okay? But the villain attempted murder/murdered people, idgaf if their story is sad lol
While that is a fair assessment of how movie Frollo was shown in his cruelty and underhanded villainy, it falls victim to one assumption, that movie Frollo doesn't feel like he's doing something wrong at any point, part of what makes Hellfire so great is that it's not just him grappling with the fact that he's feeling, in his opinion, such fallible emotions that any common man or sinner would have, but even more so towards someone he doesn't even give the full benefit or acknowledgment of being human, simply because they don't believe the way he does, being torn between what he's feeling now and the fact that feeling the very feeling itself is against what he believes in, and even entertaining this feeling means his worldview of himself is shaken as he is now just like any other member of the vulgar weak licentious crowd, he is but a man, falling to his base instincts, his sins, his damnation. He entertains the notion for just a bit, that he feels he is failing in his duty/authority as a judge of the wicked, but then he turns it into his own self conclusion that he is the judge of the wicked, so he must be right in what he is feeling, he is gaslighting himself at this point, thus begins his failure in seeing his error and true sin. In this way, as is echoed in the mantra of the movie, who is the monster? Frollo goes from being an arrogant prideful despicable person in cunning control of his inner demons and directing them upon who he deems as wicked through his dirty dealings, to a monstrous villain who has lost all control of his inner beast, and is being mindlessly driven by his puppeteering emotions, base human drives, and his mighty demons. Musical Frollo is still better as he shows a more reasonable descent into this thing he becomes, and it's a lot more impactful as he was originally someone who could've turned off this path like Schaff said, but as he just keeps going, it really shows how the worst of monsters are the ones that used to care, but no longer do.
@@samcochran8203 I hate to be rude but could you please use paragraphs and spacing. This was a wall of text that was very hard to read. As for your point, you've just described all the reasons why the movie Frollo is better in my eyes, no offense. It's not unrealistic for Frollo to be a despicable person from the start. Zealots all throughout history have shown to not alter their thinking in the slightest due to narcissism and pride.
I don't understand why it's so hard to accept some people simply put are awful. They don't need a reason to be, they just are and too blindsided by their own wickedness to change. Movie Frollo was a much-needed reminder of this. And I thank Disney for showing just how messed up he is without sugar-coating it. Schaff is free to believe that the play version is better, anyone is. I still rightfully stand by the movie version though.
@@himdevil2391 @Himdevil23 no rudeness put across, I totally do that sometimes with my whole giant text boxes, but as to why I put forth all the reasons behind Frollos villainy you had written before, I just felt the need to clarify a bit why I think he was aware of his faults, whereas you said he wasn't, or at least he was not totally admitant of how awful a person he was, I feel he was aware, he just justified it as his duty to be judge and punisher of those he deemed wicked in the ways of his belief. And for sure people are realistically despicable that way without reason nor care of changing, no offense taken at all. But as to why you think movie frollo is more villainous, I put forth one point that I'm gonna try to put across in a more understable way, I just want to see your take on it. Who would you deem as a more villainous person? Between 2 people, 1 is someone who was malicious cause their just an ahole to everyone no matter what, was already convinced they way of being ruthless is vindicated, and starts to go off the rails in a way that's not entirely out of character or out of turn for them. Number 2 is someone who genuinely wanted to do better at first, was antagonistic towards a lot of certain people because of their past trauma they associate with those people, who then slowly becomes worse and worse and just ends up not caring anymore, because they justify things and trick themselves into believing they are in the right, which ends up all culminating due to them secretly harboring a great and unreasonable hatred for the people they attribute their trauma to, trauma that other people cannot control nor be held reasonably responsible for. Who would you say is truly more villainous?
Something I like to think about in reference to questions like this, who is more evil, the one who never could be bothered to be good, or the one who doesn't care about being good anymore?
@@samcochran8203 Well of course the one that didn't care in the first place. With no empathy for others, there's a lot of destruction that they leave in their paths. And you're just left questioning how lower they'll stoop and rooting for their downfall.
Frollo: *t poses*
Me: no wonder why he has God's word
Amen,my child.
Hes just trying to be one with the cross
@@hazmat4938 „Cross posing”
God's word didn't create a Nicolaitan heirarchical structure, which Jesus said He hated. Even Peter never lorded himself over the flock, nor was he ever a pope. The counterfeit system, is that of demonism with a veneer of belonging to God. As satan desired, to be 'like' the most high. Satan copies the things of God, creating counterfeits, and redirects mankind's worship of God, onto himself. Even in the book of Revelation, his desire is to put himself in the third temple (which will be built in the end times) in Israel and declare himself to be God.
But you're right, there are plenty of people who wield spiritual authority over people, but not in the truth. The book of Jeremiah speaks about this. Even the movie...the Book of Eli shows that wicked people can be aware that when people think they have some kind of special mediatorship between God and man, that they can become figures of great authority. We see this with the institution of the popes, and even Muhammad's supplanting of the Israeli religion, to put himself and his views in place of it.
A M E N
"I jUsT wAnT sOmEoNe tO tAlK aBOuT mUsIcAlS wITh fOr 5 hOuRs" I'm honestly right here. don't make this harder than it needs to be
Hi. Nice to meet you
Talk Carrie and Shrek??? 😛 people hate me
@@leadingblind1629 I looooove Carrie and Shrek
Same. I'm willing to talk about musicals for as long as you want.
Victoria Kapusta
Can we talk about how you shouldn’t ship dead people?
*cough* Hamillton *cough*
I used to right like that not anymore though
"how many times does movie frolo t-pose? 0"
*shows frolo t-posing on the ground*
that's a Y pose
You fool ,,,, hes praising the sun!
I now will imagine the song hellfire when i praise the sun in dark souls
I'm offended by you calling that a t pose
Trying to T-pose hell
I like how Frollos character in the musical offers an explanation for Quasimodo’s personality. One small thing that always irked me in the movie was how nice and kind and normal Quasimodo acted. Being raised by frollo who was neglectful and manipulative at best as well as being in constant isolation should have absolutely fudged him up. He shouldn’t have been able to hold a conversation, much less be a functioning member of society. With frollo actually being somewhat ‘nice’ in the musical, it makes a lot more sense in that regard.
Because it shows that he didn't see Frollo as a villain since he "saved" him, never really knew his mother who actually saved him, and just because you grow up in a toxic household--or Quasi's case, technically growing up in a toxic household--doesn't automatically mean that you'll turn out exactly the same way.
@@monsterhanna6691 I mean, technically, but it's definitely more likely
@@monsterhanna6691 Fun Fact: Disney confirmed that movies Frollo is based on Amon Goeth from Schindler's list!!!!
@@orangeslash1667 Göth
@@thatguy3968 yes
Here's the scariest part though: both versions are just as believable.
TheCheck7 I agree, but I think the film would benefit by showing at least one moment indicating that Frollo wasn’t always 100% evil, because nobody is at the start. Like idk, he hates gypsies because one killed his family or something. Or he was actually all about justice but then gradually lost himself and became an irredeemable mess.
@@literallygaston2489 No, because some people are just evil. And you can't help it, maybe not from the start but nothing needs to happen for someone to be evil. Some just are
@@literallygaston2489 But there's no need to have a gypsie kill his family, or it being justified. Hating gypsies was a product of his time. It would be ok to give him something that makes him less evil - like him caring a bit about quasi for example - but I really disagree with trying to tie his hate of gypsie to a backstory. Not every racist hates a certain group because they had a personal history with them.
TheCheck7 Did you even watch the video or just wanted to post that
@@miless.9429 The Alabama senate is 80% Frollos. Never mind convincing, we know entire herds of him exist.
Wait....
You mean I *can't* trust everyone who T-poses for me?
b r u h
You foolish mortal. They have already asserted their dominance over you and you aren't even aware of it!
☺
T
Bruh
T
After watching this, I realize this could actually be a Disney movie that could actually _use_ a remake, if they take after the stage musical adaption.
YESSAA
But done RIGHT.
If Disney remakes it they’ll most likely censor or downplay it
@@unicornbarfingrainbows7599 Yeahhh, seems likely, actually...
@@dkisausome Actually, Disney confirmed that they're gonna go dark for the remake of THOND
Frollo wasn’t “too evil” for the movie, he was just a lot more visibly evil. The hypocrisy and his self-righteousness is still there, but the movie made his evil intentions a lot more visible because it’s advertised to kids and also because they didn’t have the time to flesh out his character
They did flesh out his character though. Even went as far as going into his psyche and his literal subconscious in the Hellfire scene. The cloaks chanting "mea culpa" were Frollo's subconscious trying to become conscious in order to get him to stop.
In Hugo's original book, Frollo is a good caring guy. It's not until Esmeralda arrives that he BEGINS to turn evil, and then is completely evil in the third act
Edit: Thanks for the likes, guys :D
Lust and untamed obsession can lead a man to madness.
@Krista Star Did you even read the books omg.
@Krista Star No, he actually was a good human being in the book before Esmeralda popped up, but his delusions and lust drove him mad. It's not Esmeralda's fault, obviously, but it's what happened.
While this is not WRONG it also def isn't RIGHT. He didn't become evil, he always was. He just acted on it because his racism and classism (and also sexism) gave him an excuse to act on his dark desires and disgusting fetishes.
@@na.thalie.m Nope. Book clearly states that he was a pious man who adopted and raised Quasimodo out of pity, even taking the brunt of the townspeople who viewed him as a freak for taking in such a monstrosity as his son. Book also clearly notes how he slowly fell into his irrational and "evil" state only after he met Esmerelda and became lustful and jealous of Phoebus and later Quasimodo.
Claude Frollo was much more sympathetic in the book compared to both the movie and the play as he took to Quasimodo with altruistic motivations. We see his struggle with his unruly brother, who constantly asked Frollo for money. In the novel, Frollo found Quasi in a window display in an orphanage and adopted him out of pure empathy, not because he was related to him. He went on to teach him sign language when Notre Dame's bell's ruined Quasi's hearing. But he had this irrational fear of women, which led him to resent/hate Esmerelda while at the same time harbor this obsession with her. This led to his inevitable, violent downfall.
He's such a good, Icarus-like villain. I've loved him since the movie and even more so after I read the book years ago. I'm so glad you discovered this version of him!
PriorP92 well put choice of words
Nice comment!
wow youve read the book?
@@edgey_rouges7498 you should read it too, it's a good book
@@alicealoi4951 uhhhhh....
doesnt it end with the hunchback (idk how to spell his name) dying on Esmeralda's grave?
Religion is like a knife. In the hands of a chef, it can be a tool for compassion, beauty, and wonder. In the hands of a murderer, it can be a tool for violence, suffering, and division.
If someone uses religion to make lives miserable, it’s not necessarily their religion that is making them awful. It’s the way they wield it.
Well said
PREACH BRUH
Exactly
It can give hope as much it can give death
I'm 14 and this is deep
Yep, everything can be twisted into a weapon of hatred by people who only want an excuse to make others miserable. Most notably religion and politics. I'm Catholic myself, but I despise with passion people that use their faith to justify their hate for others.
The choir was actually one of the main reasons why the show didn't make it to Broadway, because it cost too much money to pay so many actors and the creators didn't want to cut the choir out... So sad
It would make no sense without the choir lol
The crowd will be the choir then
"I guess we'll have to give that distinction to a villain with no flaws"
Farqua--
"--tAMATOA BABEYY"
90th like
610th likw
700th like
886th like
Farquad and Tamatoa
The reason: He's the most realistic and human of all the Disney villains. Like, most of the villains are magicians, gods, and other fictional beings. There can be, however, real life corrupt religious zealots that have a lot of power. It's also, as I said, realistic, because THOSE TYPES OF PEOPLE ACTUALLY EXISTED AND STILL EXIST, with the Inquisition, the Salem Witch trails, ect. Frollo hits too close to home, to his lustful obsessions paralleling to church members of the past, and some even to this day.
“Oh, I should of known.”
@@MoskHotel I should've know the world was wide enough for both Hamilton and m-- oh wait wrong musical.
Soooo, what the musical version is, as this video very explicitly points out :V
The Disney film version is a monstrous, cartoonishly so, rendition of these sorts of people. Not to say there isn’t people out there in the world who aren’t unironically as vicious and hateful and disgusting as the film rendition, but the musical version is the one closer to a tangible reality, a tangible uncomfort, and why the movie version is “too evil”. It plays that card too hard.
What about the musical version?
@@ghostkai8713 I made this comment before I finished the video.
_No Cathedral was burned in the making of this video_
Now all of Paris is burning because of you Quasimodo
Quasimodo: That was his mistake!
Ooop
*_*quickly hides torch behind back*_*
Too soon?
*victor hugo be crying in his grave*
Frollo is very good in the beginning of the novel. He teaches the deaf Quasimodo sign language and has philosophical discussions with him. Throughout the book, he slowly succumbs to temptation and madness. It's a very sad novel.
Yeah, especially as it does not have a happy ending and Phoebus is evil, too.
Yeah, one of the few books that made me openly cry (along with Magister Kampanus and Quo Vadis)
@@fruzsimih7214 Phoebus was just an outright villain. There's nothing redeemable about him in the book. The movie Phoebus is a completely different character who just has the same name and job description.
"how many t-poses does movie frollo do"
I think Patrick Page just does that, at one point in Hadestown Hades shouts loud enough to cut off power and his stance choice is, in fact, a t pose.
johnny-guitar I CONDUCT THE ELECTRIC CITY
@Brenna, hello fellow songbirds
Yesss
hahahahhaha the hadestown fandom has arrived
Also, on an unrelated note...
*KILL EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM!*
"I just want to find a girl I can talk to about musicals for 5 hours"
BRUH LET'S GET MARRIED
Did he talked with you?
@@rutemota6613 no I wish 😭😭😭
@annabeth Dianna well that was his mistake
rute mota i hope that pun was intended
@@rutemota6613
That was his steak
"If these last few weeks have taught me anything, it's that my curse is I'm truly human."
Frollo's most haunting line from the stage production.
You call it "too evil", I call it "historically accurate".
LMAOO
@MecherWulf Fun Fact: Disney confirmed that movies Frollo is based on Amon Goeth from Schindler's list!!!!
Yeah, frollo not only could exist in the real world, but almost definitely did exist in the real world.
still accurate until now - look at your typical GOP and NRA representatives and grifters.
@@tophatcat1173 Read about Heinrich Kramer. Aka the author of the "Malleus Maleficarum". The man responsible for making witchcraft a feminine crime all because he was a clearly sexually repressed individual. So much so that his one and only witch trial he made prior writing the book, was dismissed as he was clearly obsessed with the sexual activities of the accused. She got away, he got salty about it, therefore he had to tell the world that woman are essentially the bane of evil. What a prick.
I guess you could say that the musical *subverted your expectations??*
Ahhhhhh hah.
*AHHH HAAAAAH.*
That was supposed to be the woody laugh.
"Kill me"
„Later.“
*closes fridge *
Eh...more like it superverted his expectations. It improved upon his expectations and gave more depth rather than take away from the original. (but that said, I get the joke, laughed at it, etc. Not an r/whoosh situation. ;) )
Rian Johnson and the Game of Thrones writers would like a word with you.
Huh, I always thought Disney's Frollo was loved Because he was pure evil (like Maleficent, The White Queen or the Evil Stepmother), not because people viewed him as complex. Maybe that was just me.
Nah, I think you're right. People love a ballsy, edgy villain. And this guy is the baddest of them all.
Oh, he was a complex character, I mean to me he’s the most real Disney villain there is... There were people in middle ages just like him and they weren’t deemed the villains at the time and that’s the dark part, that it was real....
@@celestiacrystal9317 very true, he maybe don't be a character as complex as the musical or book. But he's indeed one of the most realistics and complex villain in Disney.
I like Maleficent from the movie Maleficent more than the original
Lyra's Life same here- I enjoyed her having a past and motive and actually ending up a good person. (I haven’t seen the second one so don’t @ me)
Sure Frollo may not be that complex, but I am still gonna love Hellfire forever and the voice actor who did an amazing job. (not to mention I love how he is animated)
The man's name was Tony Jay.
The Batman Of Neo-Gotham RIP
the only thing I fundamentally disagree with is Frollo needing a reason to be racist. Having a neat little reason for the sake of narrative works great for fantasy media with fantasy races (think DnD) but doesn't really work for this story set mostly in real life. Sinti and Roma were historically hated all across europe for being "others". Like how certain racial and ethnic groups were and still are hated all across the world, for no personal reason beyond them being part of those groups. Most people in Nazi Germany didn't have a deeply personal reason to hate the Jewish population. The hate originated in stereotype and discrimination and culminated to a hatred that lead to violence and genocide. It was the same for Sinti and Roma people.
So no I don't think Frollo needs a reason for the hatred that was commonplace among people of that time, because it kind of downplays the fact that people don't NEED reasons to be racist. Because there is no rime or reason, no logic to racism as a whole.
"Most people in Nazi Germany didn't have a deeply personal reason to hate the jewish population "
Seeing as Nazi Germany was a Christian nation, yes. Yes they did.
It's called THOSE WHO KILLED CHRIST.
THE SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN.
What do you the nazis have to do with anything
@@hannahlarocco4699 The guy is probably jewish and has a hate boner for anyone White and Christian. It's kinda their thing.
@@hannahlarocco4699 it was an example of a racist group in history that hated people for purely racist/antisemitic reasons, to proof that Frollo having a personal reason for his racism is not necessary.
It's a weird thing to try to give a bigot an actual personal and (arguably) understandable reason to hate an ethnic group/race, when that is almost never the case in history.
It frames Bigots like Frollo as "Oh he's just
a bad apple" when the bigotry against Romani people in Europe was a systematic issue, not a individual one
Idk I guess genocide makes one famous
Hell fire is the greatest villain song ever fight me
tyler Barrett I agree
A bit of trivia: When Frollo is insisting "It's not my fault!" the hooded chorus reply. In medieval latin. It translates to "It is my fault. It is my fault. It is my most severe fault."
I mean, "Be Prepared" is also a huge jam
At the risk of getting slapped but...Epiphany?
@@vylbird8014 the whole song had a chorus singing a prayer in latin and greek. it begins with a contrast, because he starts the song praising himself while the chorus confesses sins to god, mary and the saints. they sing Kyrie eleison while Frollo sings "God have merci on her/on me". beautiful and haunting. best damn song ever
Coming back to watch this on August 29, 2020, and wasn’t ready for the SNL skit with Chadwick Boseman in it. Rest In Peace, King.
Wakanda forever
That's a day after my birthday
I feel bad cuz I've never seen black panther. Still have mad respect for the dead. Prayers for his family and his clear path in the afterlife
@@DesteryandScorger it’s ok if you didn’t watch it. But you should...
So.
Movie Frollo: true demon from the start
Musical Frollo: human that turns into demon
Pretty munch yes
Novel Frollo: a very complex, torn human
Fun fact, they changed the golden rule in school, it’s now “treat others how they want to be treated” probably due to the jokes of “what if we want to be treated poorly?”
My school seems to be behind on that
School in general never really believed in that rule, either version. If any school I ever went to said it more than once ever or actually tried to hammer it into us at any point, the hypocrisy of it all would blind the staff.
that's stupid. what if THEY want to be treated badly
Such a weak argument, people who treat people badly won't care if they want it or not. Thank God I am out of the education system.
So if people want to be treated like a king we should do so? That's actually worse.
Notre Dame: *burns down*
Claude Frollo: _its free real estate_
;-)
Judge Claude... Not Count.
Thanks for the grammar check
there redesign for it is horrible.
@@RomanHistoryFan476AD The mayor of Paris confirmed that it will be a perfect reconstitution. She despises "artists" who want to deform the Cathedral
Musical: Good backstory.
Movie: KILLS MOTHER, TRIES TO DROWN BABY, AND IMPRISONS 3 MEN?!
Almost burns a family and kills Esmeralda, Quasimodo and Phoebus
Also commits tax fraud in Israel through 2003-2006
Pff, you think frollo is a villain,
Meet Yuki Terumi,
He's sadistic, brutal, and drowns you in despair.
@Siper no, disney villains pale in comparison to how sadistic terumi is
@@Egghead012 get outta here with your anime
I've asked this once
I'll ask it twice
I'll keep asking untill you notice me
PLEASE REVIEW THE EMPEROR'S NEW GROOVE MAN
I second this. Emperor's New Groove was one of my favorites
I third this
Going to fourth this one so hard
AND ME MAKES TEN
I think
@@leobelmont8435 And me eleven!
"Oooo! That's the golden rule!"
I personally learned that from Twisted 😌
Yeah twisted fan in the house
@Zelink108 indeed, I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic
That's a really great perspective, and since you're the #1 expert on Frollo that makes your point of view even more valid
its pretty smart that you gave up on animation to focus on faster-to-make talky talk videos 👍
chincherrinas the play itself combines elements of the book and the play (Claude Frollo’s younger brother Jehan is an important character and someone whom Frollo is fond of, and the ending is similar to the book) but with their own unique twists on it
Schaffrillas Productions are you being sarcastic?
chincherrinas Then it’s not really realistic then is it?
I didn't watch the musical, but I've read the book. Man, you'd be surprised. The book kinda makes you feel pity of Frollo. For example, Quasimodo isn't his nephew, just a poor baby left in the front of Notre Dame by his family, that didn't want him -- and while people passed by and laughed at him for being ugly, Frollo was the only one who saw that baby as an human being. So, Frollo genuinely cares for Quasimodo (more than Esmeralda does). He is really religious and try to be humble and good. But everything changes when he meets Esmeralda, so slowly he becomes this mad monster. You can almost believe him when he says she is the Devil trying to seduce him -- of course, Victor Hugo makes a much more complex story than that, and we can see that's not Esmeralda's fault, but we can really feel Frollo's pain in throwing his life and his values away for his mad "desire" for a girl.
There’s also a parallel with Frollo to Quasimodo. In the book, they’re BOTH outcasts. Over the years Frollow becomes more obsessed with alchemy, and, while still well respected, people fear and avoid him, much like they do with the hunchback. He becomes more isolated and twisted over the years.
Frollo is one of the best villains in a Disney movie because of how realistically evil he is. And Hellfire is easily the best villain song of all time.
Right up there with Tamatoa and his "Shiny" song of course.
I mean maybe if being evil is just for the sake of being evil but I get it he's much darker of a Disney character then others
@@greenoftreeblackofblue6625 I'll give the musical credit for giving Frollo more development and make him more sympathetic than the Disney version.
You jokin, your jokin! I cant believe my eyes!
I would argue that Frollo in Disney is about as complex as a Disney character can get, given the other factors moving the plot forward, as well as creating and developing the other characters and their relationships. Frollo is straight out evil yes, but what makes him complex in the Disney film is that he twists the ideology of faith into justification of both his actions and hatred for gypsies and his additional desire to eradicate them. Hellfire is great in showing this complexity because not only is he fighting between his faith and belief (and hatred for Gypsies too) and the twisted lust he has for Esmeralda, but between what could be considered his ‘good’ and ‘evil’ consciousness. It is the sole reason for his struggle in that number, he knows what he feels is considered bad and the consequence for giving in to them will result worse for him, but his desire and use of twisted justification makes the argument that they deserves all that he is about to do to them, that *she* deserves it. So it makes for a very interesting character I think.
During Hellfire we had chior members pull long red satin fabric off a spool while lights flashed it was beautiful
I understand why people like the more "human/relateable/sympathetic" villain. But my favorite villains will always be "I'm bad and I love it!" villains. Why? because they're simply more fun. I wish Disney would bring these villains back. We need a mix of both.
Also, in Frollo's case, there's really no need of complexity. Why does he hate the gypsies? Because it's 15th century France and EVERYONE hates gypsies. Why is he creepy and lust-y from the get-go? Because he wants to, and it doesn't seem like anybody's got a problem with it.
I mean, I enjoy the whole "see from the other's perspective" thing in fiction, but sometimes you just don't need it. Some people are truly evil for no reason, they don't see a problem with the way they are and nothing can change them. Making them sympathetic antagonists makes them worse - less scary, less thought-provoking, and yes, less fun to watch
Ronit Baraz In the movie, he believes everything he is doing is what God what wants him.
@@split776 In my opinion it's much scarier for Frollo to be more sympathetic though, especially since the disney version made him less complex than the original. Frollo was originally intended to be complex, they didn't just change it for this musical. I think the character is more fun to watch because the war within himself between his godly duty and his earthly desires is more prominent.
All I have to say is; Hades is best villain and will always be first gay friend
MetallicaFan657 plus with these modern tragic villains , they send a message that “no one is truly bad” and “evil doesn’t actually exist” witch is a dangerous outlook on life
The actor who played Frollo is Patrick Page. He's also in Hadestown, the new musical that just leaped from regional to Broadway and is up for 14 Tony's. Oh, and he plays Hades. A villain even more complex and twisted and fascinating than Frollo
Jason Rich his voice in why do we build the wall in the new cast album baffles me like how does he go so low, it’s crazy good
also i knew i’d seen him before and now i know why
I wouldn't call Hades twisted, or even a true villain... He certainly has good intentions, albeit misguided. He's definitely one of the most complex characters in theater though.
Elise B I think he just wants to be with his wife in the beginning and then the power gets to his head and it twists him into a greedy capitalist overlord who ruins people’s lives and convinces them to sell their souls.
@@bymeerabrowngothicroyal exactly. He's trying to do what he thinks Persephone would want but gets caught up in it all. Hadestown ends with a hint of redemption for him when he promises to try again.
I totally agree. The most terrifying villains are the ones that mirror real-life abusers, especially subtle gaslighting that's hidden behind normal kindness.
The first time I saw the Hunchback Of Notre Dame was in French class, and we were watching the French dub so of course none of us knew wtf was going on. And even though we couldn’t understand them, when Frollo sniffed Esmeraldas hair we all went “Hey, woah what the hell?” As a class 😂
Julia Erickson it’s funnier if you guys said it in French 😂
Julia Erickson
Same here lol. I was the only one who knew how to speak fluent French since I grew up in France. So after class I had to explain what was going on to everyone.
I’m actually french from Québec, so OF COURSE I know this musical and I LOVE it.
Une Nouille aye mate! I’m from Quebec too!
Julia Erickson LoL
Next video:
Why Disney's Tamatoa is too shiny.
Why Disney’s Tamatoa isn’t shiny enough
Adam Jensen
That's impossible. He's perfect the shiny way he is!
/420/ No. More. It’s not enough.
No he's not shiny enough
Next video:
Why Arthur SHOULD eat lunch in this town again.
yeah in the book Frollo though a jerk was actually a decent guy at first, he raised his younger bro (spoiled rotten but still) & adopted Quasimodo...but then he went insane over Esmeralda &....yeah, the musical is pretty much perfect
Granted, he was still racist, but he wasn't, you know, a straight-up Hitler analogue who was running a secret genocide campaign on the side.
@@CJCroen1393 oh yeah totally he was still a grossly religious bigot but I just meant for the time period he treated the kiddos he was in charge of well overall especially his bro Jehan
@@summonerstripclub4840 Indeed.
Since this is from the same guy who wrote Les Miserables, it's not surprising that Frollo, like Javert, was written as the more relatable sort of antagonist who really wants to be the hero of the story but just falls short in some way, instead of just saying, "Hey guys, who's up for some evil?".
Ahhh, Javert. Honestly feel bad for him.
Read the book, and then you can see how deep Frollo can be, and how complex and nuanced Notre Dame by Hugo is.
*_After the Notre Dame Cathedral fire incident, I will never watch Hunchback Of Notre Dame the same way ever again._*
Same, I couldn’t stop thinking about it when I was watching it with my friends.
Mr. Friendship your name doesn’t match your profile pic
@@johnnyelettrico9087 Good point! He should change it to one of the all time bromances or whatever you call a female friendship!
Why not
@@inthecloudz1272 Why doesn't the name match the profile pic? Because the pic is of a man being tortured, which has nothing to do with friendship. His pic should be a picture of friendship and/or happiness.
In the book he literally has Esmeralda hung and then is killed by Quasimodo.
Yup and then Quasimodo dies holding Esmeralda's corpse in his arms. People find their entangled skeletons in a graveyard months later.
@@dwightk.schrute6743 and I oop-
Moist Manatee Well he still wasn’t completely evil, he wasn’t drowning babies in the first 5 pages.
Also didn't he try to rape Esmeralda?
But he is far less manichean than he his in the adaptation if I recall, he raised Casimodo as his son. Also, are you sure he decided to hung her ? I thought it was about her taking the blame for Phoebus stabbing ?
Holy shit the “this child is my cross to bear” part hit me. The sheer subtle shitheadery in that sentiment is staggeringly realistic. Just look at those certain religious mothers of autistic people, looking at their offspring as a burden that they are obliged to love rather than an actual person. Definitely one of the scariest real life sentiments expressed in a movie.
Honestly, that sentiment covers a lot of parents of disabled children not just autistic kids. Far too many of those parents see their children as a divine "punishment" or sin that they must carry with them. Even strangers fall into this trap. One of my favorite Tiktokers, @crutchesandspice, has cerebral palsy and she cannot remember the number of times random strangers said they'd "pray for her."
“Hellfire” is one of my favorite villain songs in all of Disney. Soooooooo good
Joey Teter, Hellfire, Out There, Prince Ali, (Reprise), and Be Prepared were great Disney villain songs in my opinion, and I thought that Poor Unfortunate Souls and Gaston were mediocre songs.
Frollo ended up falling into hell, if that dosent sound like a proper evil villain i dont know what does
A demon literally dragged him there!
Frollo: "And He shall smite the wicked and plunge them into the fiery pit!"
God: "Took the words right out of My mouth. Tell Satan the Lord sent ya, Frollo."
Didn't Dr. Facilier from The Princess and the Frog also die like that?
@@athath2010 yup
@@athath2010 That, and his own villain song turned against him too.
You never can have a character too evil as long as they are written properly.
And so long as they have the voice of a fallen angel.
THats His MIstAAKE
NowUCMe He is a flawed character and because of that, A bad villian
Me: *scowls at Hans, Professor Kalahan, and Mayor Bellewether*
Who’s the most evil character but well-written that you’ve come across?
People don't like Frollo because he is complex. They like him because he describes a very real, very twisted form of evil that they have probably seen in their own lives. Hellfire helps us understand how his evil functions, how we can put it into context in our own world, and how he contrasts with Quasimodo. For a 91-minute film, we really don't need to understand the depths of the character, and having him be so spectacularly evil helps the audience understand him better with less time. The ant scene, in particular, works at conveying how his religious convictions don't function out of love for others, but out of his understanding of power. He fears God, because God could squish him like an ant, and he thinks those below him ought to fear him, because he can do the same. It may not be a nuanced take, but it is a profoundly human characteristic that is conveyed in such a small moment.
People don’t like more evil villains, because that’s the point.
@@Tarnished-bn5gq What?
@@jpickens189 the point is to not like them, even hate them.
@@Tarnished-bn5gq I mean, there is a distinction between enjoying the aesthetics and effects of an awful person in a narrative and enjoying the experience of being around or being affected by such a person in real life. Also, people aren't morally straightforward, we don't just want heroes that represent the best virtues a person can have, we also want people who represent that which we hate, that which is weak about us, and that which we secretly kind of want to be but wouldn't because, you know, empathy and whatnot.
I also saw this musical, and in it they made Quasimodo deaf
Oh and the actual cast member was deaf IRL
it was really cool
One of the statue things was like a translator
10/10
Fanny Pack I saw one like that too!! In Seattle!!! Best thing ever!
Yeah, the deaf west production. They did the same for spring awakening too. They often use their versions to send a message about respect and voice
I remember someone saying that Quasimodo is deaf in the book, so that's really cool.
@@dubiousseed3272 He is deaf in the novel from the bells. Frollo teaches him sign language.
*interpreter
*Notre Dame burns in HBOND*
*Notre Dame burns in real life*
Quasimodo: tHaT wAs HiS mIsTaKe!
Was that a big hero 6 reference?
Well, I guess it IS a movie, is it not?
Hades in the real religion is a good guy with a dog name spot no I'm serious
Out of the Olympians, he's arguably one of the best in terms of morals. While others are unfaithful, war starting, mortal-smiting, maiden-raping monsters...
He only harmed heroes when they specifically broke rules he informed them of. In some versions of his story, Persephone was in on him planning to marry her. Cerberus means spotted, and the name he used for Persephone means honey.
Guys.
His dog's name is Spot and he calls his wife Honey.
Can we please agree to stop considering him to be a villain?
I've been so conflicted when it comes to Disney's Hades ever since I found out about this. He's my favorite Disney Villain character wise, but originally he was a sweetheart. I get that Disney has the Death=evil and evil should be evil for evil's sake, but couldn't they just use a titan as I'm well aware that they wouldn't Hera.
I was so confused how we got talking about hadestown but understood a bit bc, ya know, patrick page, but actually i’m an idiot and completely forgot that he talked about hades from hercules 🤦♀️
Kerberos can also be translated as fluffy
Hades honestly has my vote for ‘Olympian most likely to double-tie his sneakers’
Patrick's performance of Hellfire is very intriguing. He performs as if his attraction and heartache are causing him physical pain. As if...there were an actual fire burning him from the inside. Movie Hellfire is great because, I think it's a representation of his insanity. They're both good performances but I think it depends on what you look for in a villain.
"That's the golden rule! I learned that from Veggie Tales."
I learned that from Starkid's Twisted
Same here
Same
*kicks door open* FOLLOW THE GOLDEN RULE, FOR LIFE'S A TWO-WAY STREET
KEEP THAT IN MIND, AND YOU'LL BE KIND, TO *EVERYONE YOU MEET*
FOLLOW THE GOLD AND RULE OH DON'T BE SUCH A FOOL
Eeyup, same here. 😂.
Frollo best Disney villian change my mind
Obviously Tamatoa is too godlike to be judged as a mere villian
Maleficent
@@josephbilderback4549 you got me there
@@atrep4585 damn you gave up fast
Please, as if Frollo could EVER top Dr Doofenshmirtz.
Where's HIS tragic backstory, huh??
Boogie oogie
You need to watch the production with Joshua Castile. Makes me cry every time I watch a clip. Takes a totally different approach as Quasimodo is deaf, which would have been historically correct. He is played by a Deaf actor, and the gargoyles act as his translators. Sounds a little weird but it works perfectly. I can’t talk highly enough about this show and I wish I got the chance to see it. You should check it out!
he was also deaf in the novel.
Joshua Castile is an absolute god send to the world of musical theater
TrashPanda I’m seeing him on August 30 and I can’t be more excited
Caught this production last year. It was amazing. Much better than I expected it to be, to be honest.
I saw it in Seattle with him not knowing he was going to be in it but already obsessed from spring awakening. So good
I honestly liked the changes Disney did, they showed how some people use religion to a excuse of their acts, and also, Disney changed not only Frollo but a lot of others things like Quasimodo not being deaf, Esmeralda being pureblood gipsy (while in the book she was adopted by them) and the end. Both can be good, don't need to exist a "better than"
*gypsy
@@monsterhanna6691preferably Roma or Romani because g*psy is a slur
“How many poses does movie Frollo have? 0”
*movie Frollo proceeds to t-pose on the ground*
Hate to ruin the joke but that's actually a thing Catholics do. It's called prostration.
T-prostration
Frollo is a floor ganger
Planking.
That's a Y tho
If you look closely in the movie, Frollo has half of the infinity stones on his fingers, that's why he is so evil
Yessss!!!!
*Paris snap*
I was going to make an "I dont feel so good" meme but i havent seen it yet, sadly... *sad noises*
But irone man managed to get all the stones at the endgame
Hmm
Reminds of Jafar in a way
I like the idea of Frollo. He's a character that shows that just because you believe in a God, doesn't mean you can't be a horrible person.
His character shows how religious people will try to be good and act good because they're scared of where they're going after death (Heaven or Hell in a Christian sense), more-so then actually wanting to be a genuinely good person just out of human nature.
I guess you are talking about movie Frollo?
Book Frollo straight up didnt care after a while. At one point he tells Esmeralda "L'enfer ou tu iras, j'irai aussi. Et ce sera mon paradis" (the hell you'll go to, I shall go too. And this will be my paradise)
He knows he's doing very naughty things, but he's horny af. He wants to be good, but if she's forcing him to be a bad guy (by being pretty and existing), he'll be the bad guy.
Also book 35yo Frollo frames 16yo Esmeralda for assault on an officer and then, when she's about to be executed tells her "c'est moi ou la potence" (it's me or the gallows). So, you know, exemplary citizen.
I think this is pretty generalizing. It's not just the fear of eternal damnation that is the cause of decent human behavior, religious or not. What I believe to be the connection between frollo and religion is how he justifies his actions, as a fight against devil (esmeralda)
Frollo's vile nature also stems from the abuse of power, whether he is a judge or a priest.
My favorite part of the movie is how the two frollo and (is it esmerelda?) Contrast. Her song about religion including someone like her Contrasts the frollo song. He represents the fanatic and hateful follower, she is the gentile hoping for saving and not rejecting the religion simply because of how she is treated by a member in it. I love that song
Bro ur username is bomb
AsianPotatoes BeAngry now about mine 👹👹👹
I'm late to the party but here some insights: Disney's Frollo is fantastic, but he is a different sort of person, he is a noble in the position refered to as "minister of justice" (not a real title) and hence a judge. The Frollo in the novel is the archdeacon of Notre Dame, he legit takes in Quasi as an abandoned infant and genuinely cares for him. This is where the real tragedy sets in. That child he put so much effort in suddenly becomes an enemy to him because he gets carried away by his lust for Esmeralda who is actually executed at the end. It's here that Frollo stands on the Notre Dame, laughing and giggling, and it's here where Quasi shoves him off the cathedral.
I love the disney version, it's fantastic, but it's a different character.
“That’s the golden rule! I learned from veggie tales”
I learned that from Twisted from Jafar lmao
Orly Doe I’ve learned everything from twisted
THIS IS THE SECOND TWISTED COMMENT IVE SEEN. I AM PLEASED.
I get back what I *Giiiiiiiiiivvvvvveeee*
Very glad to see the starkid fandom out here too
Orly Doe oH HELL YES
is it even a schaffrillas productions without him praising tamatoa
@@firefly5934 I...
Don't think you understand the comment....
AnniekR TAMATOA HASNT ALWAYS BEEN THIS GLAM!
Jesse Brown HE WAS A DRAB LITTLE CRAB ONCE
NOW I KNOW I CAN BE HAPPY AS A CLAM
BECAUSE I'M BEAUTIFUL BABY!!
Schaffrillas: hey here’s a full fledged analysis on Frollo!
Tamatoa: Am I a joke to you?
*Tamatoa is no longer happy as a clam*
The musical frollo isn't less evil he's just easier to understand which makes it all the more scary and intense.
That’s because many don’t know that the movie version is based on a real person
@@LucarioBot who?
@@minimaster197 Amon goeth