It Is That Deep: A Response to Salem Tovar
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- Опубліковано 6 лют 2025
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It can be easy to interpret celebrities' gaffes as overblown, but perhaps we are too dismissive of their potential to be analyzed, and the capacity fame offers for supporting important causes.
Please do NOT send any harassment or hate Salem's way, this is a critique and not a drama video or a diss. If I find out any of you do that, I'm banning you from the channel.
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Please do NOT send any harassment or hate Salem's way, this is a critique and not a drama video or a diss. If I find out any of you do that, I'm banning you from the channel.
I do watch Salem and I like her. But this video you mentioned was a little confusing to me. Glad you are discussing this video. Thanks.
Your empathy in these things has really changed me. That sounds trite in passing, but seriously. Thanks for meaning it when you talk about empathy, and staying as consistent as you do. It's big.
Your comments are full of it. Might wanna seed through and do that banning now.
Love that you decided to cover this, I’ve followed you both independently for a while and I just couldn’t connect with what she was saying in the video when I originally saw it (whenever it was first posted). Very interested to hear your perspective
If video essays were on Google Scholar, you’d be boosting Salem’s citation count, so why _should_ anyone complain?
(If only your viewers were boosting her citation count, too…)
The iPhone criticism is literally "if you hate capitalism why do you live in capitalism, huh?"
You can choose to not buy an iphone tho 🙄
Sometimes people give iPhones to other people
Why do you act like apple is the only brand that exists? Lmao
Besides, she wasn't criticizing capitalism, she was criticizing the exploitation of Apple specifically. There are multiple brands in capitalism that are not as exploitative as Apple.
@@hamster3mpire at this point in the game if you think someone buying an iphone (as a phone choice) is peak capitalism then you just gotta log out and go educate yourself before speaking on a topic in which you clearly have a surface level (and i am being generous) understanding of.
This kind of critical discourse is exactly what happens with academic writing. Video essays feel like a democratized academia, so it feels natural to respectfully and constructively critique others' videos.
^ well put!
Absolutely agree and I miss this kind of responding between creators!
"Democratized academia" is a really good way of putting it.
@@SyoDraws right?! The "Academy" is in crisis mode (thanks, capitalism!) and is hemorrhaging passionate folks. Professor is not the viable vocation it used to be, so their loss is our gain if we legitimize creators who produce quality research in such a non-traditional format.
@@katiefleece I very much agree. I'm just guessing, but I think that with how "fast" internet culture is, online trends and niche topics are more likely to get coverage in this form than they would in traditional academia.
(A little off topic, but I'm reminded of academic music theory, and how there's a wide gap between what is conventionally studied and what is going on now in the world of music, though that gap is beginning to gradually close, from my limited perspective.)
"these people are not politicians, they're not philosophers..."
Well damn... Neither are we yet we're aware and sensitive to issues
👏👏👏👏👏
This reminds me of a quote by Kimberly Nicole Foster: “We are socialized to side with power, to protect power, and sympathize with power because we feel like one day we might be power.”
Love Kim and her channel!
That’s why there’s so many rags to riches “you can do it too” stories. We have to want to be them otherwise we’ll realise there’s no reason for them to exist with that much wealth
@@shanel4294 Yes, it is quite insidious.
I don't even think we need to be conditionned for this. It's in human nature to desire power and to be on top. That's why most people protect it naturally hoping they'll get there at some point.
The other side of the same coin is many people criticizing power out of envy rather than a desire for actual change.
@@LaCréé.ethe classic human nature argument.
It couldn't be the environment that incentivizes power, it must just be human nature. Let's forget that hunter-gather society were fairly egalitarian, it's just human nature to horde apparently
This is a cinematic crossover I never imagined lol
But definitely needed!!! Lol
Gooped! Love the discourse though😅
Maybe next, Elliot can chat with Burn It Down with Kim Brown? I think they'd get along.
The way I knew this was going to happen because that video was actually bad 💀 her takes in the past do not line up with this one it seems so random lmao
So melodramatic
this is so timely bc i thought the whole block party thing was that we need to collectively stop romanticizing the lives of the rich & powerful (regardless of how informed they are) bc of their complicity in the oppression of different groups & peoples. the less attention we give them, the more they're forced to give a f abt said issues. but apparently there are ppl who think it's just some type of hate train???
The thing is, some people are more annoyed about people blocking celebrities (which is an overall positive to me regardless of the reason) instead of being annoyed about their intentional avoidance of extremely important events in order to keep their sponsors happy. There's a reason they get invited to things and get sent pr, it's because they can get more people's attention than the average person. Of course this shouldn't be the only progressive thing someone does, but decentering self serving influencers is a good thing.
Yes! I think it's also a good idea to have the same energy we use on these celebrities to people who minimize these issues as a 'hate train'. It minimizes what the movements actually stand for and these issues don't deserve that kind of attention from anyone.
Its just a really dumb thing to focus on. They don't have the power you seem to think they do. None of us do. They are mostly at the bottom of the money train, look up
@@whatever3145Most of these same people can’t even get their own lives together but they’re going to end oppression once and for all because they blocked a few select celebrities on social media.
@@whatever3145celebrities are given so much attention to the point where real life issues are ignored for the sake of paying it to them. most celebrities are not part of the richest people, but they have more power to bringing action among people if that makes sense. OP is right that celebrity blockout (should) be making people realize the negatives of idolizing them, and/or making them the center of a lot of things within our culture.
Tovar thinks they just fell out of a coconut tree? They exist in the context of all in which they live and what came before them!!!
WORD TO KAMMY H
@@TheAbigailDee oh my god i’m sorry😭i didn’t watch the whole video
The wheels on the bus go round and round!! 🗣️ 🗣️ 🗣️
@@std155 np homie 💞 it's just me making jokes.
Cue Kamala manic laugh*
The Logan Paul comparison is absolutely hilarious. Long after the s*icide forest scandal, he has been cancelled so many other times and MANY people to this day still hate him. He was drug through the mud for the forest, but also the pokemon cards AND crypto scams. If she's out of the loop of those criticisms that's fine I guess, but like are we abandoning research for commentary videos then?
Logan Paul still has a major fan base and still successful and still does fights. The hate he gets means nothing to his bank account
I really didn't agree with most of what Salem said when I watched her video this week. However, I do think she was implying that Logan Paul is still rich, successful, got on WWE, and has a vastly successful company that's brand is 100% linked to him. And that, despite all the things he did that are super wrong, and how he's been canceled, that cancellation didn't hinder his success nor keep him from achieving his dream job in WWE or hinder him from staying on top in the algorithm space. She was making an example of how the way we do cancel culture doesn't work as intended for most people. Most will bounce back from the cancelation when the majority of people move onto someone else. I don't think she was implying she is unaware of Logan's bad acts.
the fact that theres so many male internet celebrities she could've went with but still ended up picking the worst example for her point is laughable.
@@kiterafrey true so many people down Celsius even after he robbed people
@@dongysakura418 I was thinking of his brand Prime, he was just endorsing/spon with Celsius. Though, I'm a WWE fan I only know what I learn about him from WWE and news outlets dedicated to the WWE
I think there’s another factor contributing to Tovar’s nearsightedness when it comes to criticism of influencers that you may also have. You and Tovar are also influencers that have a platform that (despite other things) at the end of the day promotes products for which you receive payment when other people buy it. Y’all may not have the same wealth accumulation at TikTok/Instagram influencers or even celebrities have but y’all both have large platforms that the average person does not, which is a tool that can be used to accumulate wealth much faster. It means, in your words, Tovar can sympathize with influencers receiving criticism and compare the criticism to a witch trial because she’s currently in a position for that to potentially happen to her and get in the way of her wealth accumulation, should she say or do the “wrong” thing. From this position, it is easier to both sympathize with influencers and imagine oneself as being so close to achieving that life. So it seems in one’s best interest to advocate for leniency towards influencers when they make mistakes so as not to mess up their plan to be at that level someday
Makes sense. It’s the old temporarily embarrassed millionaire trope, but more so in Salem’s case, temporarily embarrassed celebrity. Defending her “class” interests before she even quite gets there
@@crisscringleit was so obvious I got second hand embarrassment
Perfectly said
That was exactly what I was thinking when I first saw the video but again literally not too long ago she made a video about erewhon hauls and how tone deaf influencers are blah blah so it just seems more weird that she’s saying these things now that’s at least why I’m kind of surprised 😂
I also thought she would say something ab the G c!de herself but she never really addressed it so yeahhh lol it was like I was watching a republicans video essay for a sec
Anyone else find it weird how these random influencers are so agianst blocking celebrities. Like act like it’s so distraught and heart breaking as their personally affected
It’s a BLOCK button 😭😭
Seriously if your offended over someone blocking a celebrity like Kim k please , please , get off the internet touch grass , get over that parasocial relationship and take deep breaths
@@mick6247 I think it's because on some level they kind of see themselves in a more similar category to celebrities than a regular person lmao
kinda feels like she thinks she's gonna be in that tax bracket/at that level of fame at some point and wants to make sure there are still some people left to support her when she is
nottttt saying that's what she's doing it's just kinda the vibe
yeah it's definitely because they're afraid they might get blocked too lmao. too bad they're just digging their own graves by defending celebs in this anyway
the "they're not politicians or philosophers" pisses me off so bad bc guess what???? im also not a politician but i try to get educated before opening my mouth
Yes but that doesnt automatically make you an authority on the topics youre learning about… people treating influencers like they need To Get EdUcatEd when their main job is about products and marketing is reductive.
@@kidawesomeness123the commenter never said they were an authority on it. To be fair, they have so much money that they kinda have the duty to do so. The type of money people like Taylor swift has is unimaginable to 99% of people. Hell, bill gates as the most money in the world but refuses to even send 5% of it to help people who actually need it.
That’s why. It shouldn’t be the job of the everyday worker to fucking bring justice to something they don’t have the resources for.
Since Salem Tovar tried to put Shanspeare on blast saying she was a "copycat" bc they covered the same topic in their own respective videos (a topic SEVERAL other commentary/essayist channels addressed at the time, if Shanspeare "copied" Salem - then Salem also copied someone else.) She was missing the point then, and keeps missing the point now - not a fan.
(context - About 2-3 years ago, Salem posted on Insta saying something along the lines of "love when other creators copy my videos without crediting me" and played Billie Eillish's song 'Copycat' over it. This later led to "negative attention" from Salem's fans sent towards Shanspeare. Shanspeare addressed in a video after this post that's she has no bad feelings for Salem after she personally reached out to understand what all that nonsense was about, but was disappointed that it even happened in the first place. I'm just saying someone here had class in this situation, and I think we all know who is the one that didn't 👀)
Also the person she said copied her puts waaaay more quality and nuance in her videos and Salem just likes to be a contrarian and anti intellectual 🤢
@@indicev Soo true, Salem always seemed like she got into the game bc she sees you can get followers from it, not bc she actually cares deeply about what she's talking about and develops a well informed take and just has half cooked opinions.
Which topic is it? I wanna watch both
@@dotcom3015 cringe culture they both made videos after contrapoints’ video “cringe”
@@indicev thanks. The comments are turned off, is it because of the Salem situation?
It’s like anytime we even TRY to make some sort of change ppl act like what we are doing isn’t working
Yeah :/ I think this is a projection because people don't like to feel pressured into acting *themselves* or like they aren't doing enough. So instead of doing something equally (or more in their opinion) productive for the cause, they just point and critique.
yeah like the boycott ... movement and surprise it worked
I know right!! It's like people are all for change and fuck the system until it's time to actually do something then it turns to "I'm not sure about this..." sooo frustrating to me. The blockout movement may not be perfect but atleast it's something it's like all some people want to do is criticise really has me asking damn whose side are you on?😂😂😂 like I thought we we're all tired of celebrity wealth porn,capitalism and agreed genocide is bad.
@@Definitelynotabot4 this!!!
@@Definitelynotabot4 real thank uuuu cuz like even on big left tubers channels the comments were horrible abt the blockout and it was in a rly weird manner like ?? whose side are u on. like anytime ppl try they wanna overly critique it, not offer any solutions and they honestly sound like ring wingers. I completely agree and this is how I feel. I feel like its pretty logical too like yeah may not be perfect but its good to see ppl TRY n DO SOMETHING right isn't that what we want? but I haven't seen any other comments have a even slightly nuanced take ...very bizarre. but I will say this comment section is a lot more refreshing than any other videos I have seen on it. unfortunate and disappointing tbh I cant say that for the big channels.
It makes me laugh when everyday ppl wanna give celebrities soo much grace for not talking abt politics like dawg when these politics start effecting you , your gonna wish these celebrities would speak out more 😂
Exactly, and in this case it's not just "politics" as if to sway a vote. But g*nocide. That's what irks me.
when the same celebs party and dine with the politicians
To be honest, I don't want celebrities to speak. B
LM affected me because I have been a victim of police as a blk person. But the celebrities that got involved with the movement bastardized it and even got involved in some of the riots, making any meaningful protests go out the water.
There’s already a bill that was proposed recently for mandatory drafts in America lol… they’ll start caring soon enough and wish more people spoke out
exactlyyy
Nah bc when I saw her video I was actually gagged at how she had no political context at all and chalked it up to sexism in the end. U don't know how happy I am ur making this bc she seems well intentioned but that was painful to watch.
she was giving white feminism honestly
and reading the comments afterwards of people feeling justified in their not caring or not wanting to care about the politics lmao
totally agreed !
literally same. as a woman, there are not enough words in the dictionary for me to express how much i hate it when a woman does something distasteful and when they receive rightful backlash/criticism, all anyone does is say "its just because shes a woman! you guys hate women!" like stfu. it happened with ariana grande and people are trying to draw it to haley as well.
yeppp
I remember when she tried to make a whole drama about SHANSPIERE of all people copied one of her videos, ma’am… 💀
Lmao fr
yeah fr i’ve never liked her after that…
Big accounts copy from smaller accounts all the time it’s nothing new. It wouldn’t be shocking if they did, not accusing
when was that??
@@weirddd469 it happened like 2 years ago they didn’t copy each other but they covered the same topic (a trending one at the time, I remember it was about cringe culture because of contrapoints’ video) and Salem was so mean saying that bigger creators copied her but like girl their analysis were completely different I remember Salem’s video was more anecdotal and surface level analysis as shanspeare's was more like cultural analysis, anyway the whole drama was on Salem’s ig stories
CACKLING at the "You all use IPHONES though :-((((" argument... Like... How can you tell exactly what phone model people are using? I don't use an iPhone. None of my family use iPhones. None of my friends use iPhones. Does she seriously think there's only one phone company out there??? Even if everyone DID use an iPhone, there would be people who got them second hand or refurbished, and therefore wouldn't be directly supporting Apple.
I likes this from my ipone 15 (baby reindeer reference?) lol but yea I agree I only have this phone bec my friend pays for it lol
Fr I've had my android for years and don't plan on switching
She made it seem as if we're getting a new phone every other week
Does she not realise that not everyone is in the tax bracket for an iPhone? I know in some countries they go for cheaper but I can't see myself affording one, let alone replacing my android, any time soon
@@Regene2383 uh.. is your friend looking for more friends?
@@lordtette she needs a bf😭lol
I cannot state how disappointed I was with most of the creators here on youtube about the Palestine conflict, people who always had an opinion on every little thing suddenly went silent...such a shame.
It was hard to say much beside, "Please make it STOP." Back around 1980, I was at a party and the Israeli/Palestinian topic came up. I spoke up for a two-state solution. Only to have someone else attack me for it, calling me Yasser Arafat and accusing me of anti-Semitism. I denied that, but the person was so outraged at my opinion that I felt quite unsafe. So, this has gone on for so long, way before even that. And progressives have always had to do a walking-on-eggshells thing around the topic. We did support Israel's right to exist, but the Palestinians got a raw deal out of it. I always wished they had set up the State of Israel some place like the Australian Outback where it was largely uninhabited, but of course that was not "The Holy Lands". Not to mention that America's religions and politics got all wrapped up in it, with our Evangelicals wanting to bring about the Second Coming by having a giant war. So, Democrats were in a tough spot. Many of their firmest supporters and donors are Jewish. So Democrats felt unable to get tough with Israel. And I can in no way support what Hamas did on Oct. 7. So-- PLEASE MAKE IT STOP.
@@argusfleibeit1165 it’s just sad that there’s a whole genocide rn , war crimes being committed,and all we can do is watch cause people who actually do have the power to help
Don’t care
@@argusfleibeit1165why does israel have a right to exist?
edit: or do you mean exist somewhere else, because if so, i agree. but if you know anything about the "lore" they chose Palestine for a reason. it would've never been the Australian outback.
what are u even saying
@argusfleibeit1165 zionists don't give a f about the holy land, it was an excuse, the real reason was to find a state to separate the aisan Arab countries from the African Arab countries, at the time of it's establishment a lot of jews spoke against it but were silenced
I've never understood the argument that we can't expect celebrities to be educated on current events. That might have been true decades ago, but now we live with the internet, and all it takes is typing a few words and clicking a few buttons to learn everything you need to know about any given issue. There's no excuse not to know about Palestine when the internet exists.
Also I think one of the key components of our frustration with celebrities/influencers is that those of us in the Free Palestine movement are constantly coming face to face with how little power we have. When we shout in the streets or occupy our school buildings, it feels like nobody's listening. When we donate to evacuation funds, we wish we could give more but we literally don't have enough. The only people I've "influenced" to donate and care about Palestine are my parents and grandparents. Then we see these people that the masses DO listen to, who DO have endless resources, and yet they're not doing anything - that's a huge element of the frustration, which Salem does not address. (Also, I actually personally think most celebrities ARE aware of the situation but are purposefully not commenting so they can retain as many fans as possible...)
Surprisingly there are a lot of left leaning youtubers taking the stance that we shouldn't want celebrities to say anything cause their only role is to be a celebrity which honestly is pretty dehumanizing. They are humans with brains. They have thoughts and feelings. They can read. They aren't brain dead robots and they have a shit ton of power. Power that they're afraid of losing, yes, but still they have a ton of influencial power that could get people to care because unfortunately, since it's not happening to them, a lot of people don't care. And like you said, they're rich af. I live paycheck to paycheck. They can donate so much that it would actually be helpful and not leave a dent in their pockets.
This
Trigger warning talk of suicide!!!! I wish I could help make resources available to everybody like I've been thinking about money and wealth and like I kinda knew but not to the fullest extent so I just realized that acquiring more resources myself will not help other people have access to rightful resources that they deserve and are entitled to cuz they life depends on it ok yk actually lending a hand involves fighting against capitalism. I think some people who were poor before acquire wealth as a trauma response and go overdrive when they have more than enough like an acquaintance told me that so it's not my idea so maybe wealth is a form of addiction for some that's my idea. I've been feeling insane cuz the world chooses to remain silent on Palestine yk my mind force feeding me doubts as if I'm not sure of the humanity of the Palestinian ppl cuz it can't take the pressure and violence of the silence like poor me, us and them (psst I see and feel pity as a compassionate emotion, I even pity myself so don't take this as disrespect) like that's a lot like it can be too much at times like I can't imagine what the Palestinian ppl are feeling with the inaction of the world, i feel like they must feel let down yk abandoned by the world in the worst way possible and on so many levels that I feel like it's okay if they don't forgive us, I feel so guilty that the world isn't doing anything to make their suffering stop like I know it's not me individually but I feel like I'm still at fault cuz I'm participating in the west being this huge hegemonic figure in the world somehow like I'm literally crying writing this like I feel so lost so it's so important for ppl with more influence to speak out. I feel so exhausted cuz I feel like we're forced into a bubble that prevents others from hearing us like I used to have this reoccuring dream as a kid like bloody mary or a monster coming to harm me and screaming but nobody could hear me so nobody could help me like this feels very much the same but in this case Palestinians are being harmed and their scream and our screams for justice fall on a death ear cuz they can't hear humanity in their screams so they do nothing. I feel suicidal for this, I can't stand their suffering, it drives me insane like I'm not okay, I don't know what to do to make better like I'm unconsciously suicide like sometimes I don't notice but once I dig far enough it just boils over the surface like I've been trying to get rid of this feeling but it's so pervasive like truly justice is medicine like I gotta do smth like I don't know what but smth has to be done or I'm just gonna be tormented by this feeling forever like it's awful bye guys I'm just done for the night or day. Don't worry I'll stay alive but I can't stand the torture of watching others suffer.
You worded my thoughts exactly.
It's never been true. Hollywood and politics has gone hand in hand. Pls Walt Disney blacklisted people from the industry by calling them communists. Actors got their start singing for troops.
I hate people that say: "It's not that deep" in response to those who try to point out why something is bad. It entirely shuts down an arguement in the worst way possible, it's like how she basically said that having an Iphone negates opression (i know I'm paraphrasing but seriously how else is one meant to take that statement?). It's a non-entity of a rebuttal that provides nothing to a conversation, rather than growing it, it infects it and kills it from the inside in a disingenous and insidious way
Saying "It's not that deep" in my eyes has always kinda come off like they're saying "I don't understand the issue and instead of wanting to be educated further, I am just going to shut you down as being pedantic and dismiss your concerns because I feel that makes me cool". We really are in brainrot city so it's nice to see comments like this that call out that sort of dismissive/downplaying behavior that can be really damaging in the long run. To those who say "It's not that deep", maybe you're not perceiving depth because everything in your mind is shallow
@@MsBlackcrow25 "maybe you're not perceiving depth because everything in your mind is shallow" damn that last line goes hard
@@MsBlackcrow25 welcome to eurocentric culture, where being born well off is the only way to not get murdered with labor induced starvation :) here we copiously reward our well off folks for existing because they are such a valuable blessing to all our lives! such an honor it is to have to feel my body consuming itself to keep my organs from failing so people like them can never have to earn anything but get to use infinite resources on all their dumb4ss childish endeavors :) i love this place. i love that i was born poor in a eurocentric country, its the best life i can imagine!
@@Toastefied assuming there is any brain matter in their skulls in the first place. im pretty sure there are just corporate advertisements on a memory card in their heads. because all they do is repeat corporate talking points about everything and do exactly what the rich folks tell them to do and say.
My phone’s too full of photos so I wrote these down in my sketchbook because
Been saying this
I feel very seen ❤
I find a lot of Salem’s takes very shallow. Why make analytical content without doing any analysis?
Money! : )
Yeah lika most youtubers lol💀 you all act like if this is new
@@brisa3767no there's plenty of UA-camrs that do that. And just because plenty of UA-camrs do doesn't make it any less true
No I actually agree here. I think she could switch to making Danny Gonzales style videos and or focus on Tiktok drama rather than sociopolitical issues that go over her head. From what I can see, her draw is the ASMR and cozy friend vibe, not the quality of her commentary. She may as well pivot and would receive far less critique!
@@CHEEZE369 Girl learn how to read, I said most not all
In your video "The Problem with Video Essays", you made a point about the difference between commentary and video essays - commentary being more opinion-based and video essays being based on research and more of a critical analysis. That helped me realize that some youtubers I watch are simply commentary and Salem Tovar is one of them. I think the video you critique here is a good example of why I only watch her videos for entertainment and will go to other youtubers for more structured, and evidence-backed takes. I really appreciate your respectful breakdown of her video and adding more nuance to the general discussion.
True, I follow both types of content but it's easy to trip them up
ive always looked at commentary as people talking about unserious topics such as a silly tiktok trend or something, and video essays being about more serious topics, but the way you (or more so elliot in his other video) phrase it is honestly a much better way of at looking at it. ill use those definitions from now on so thank you lol
I am wrecking my brain trying to imagine to alternative history where the French Revolution happened because Marie Antoinette was killed. Does this person think that the French Revolution was a revolt in favor of the monarchy? That the people were just so upset by their queen being killed that they... overthrew the monarchy? It's absolutely fascinating to me how that makes sense in their brain.
To be fair, Marie Antoinette’s execution happened pretty late in the French Revolution (as ContraPoints discusses in “Envy”… while dressed as a bloodied Marie Antoinette).
(See also Xiran Jay Zhao’s series of Shorts/Reels/TikToks dressed up as Robespierre. Speaking of drama…)
Though also maybe people who are apparently misunderstanding the French Revolution are just Bonapartists. 🤷🏻♀️
And also (also) where’s George Santos, the Mary Magdalene of Congress, when we need him? (Even if he was never very good at metaphors.)
@@elsiehupp Well duh, obviously. I went to high school, thank you.
That's why I'm so confused about how someone could possibly think that her death sparked the revolution, and how that could possibly even remotely make sense.
Big fan of Xiran!
@@sabrinagranger5468 I mean I went to the sort of high school where we barely touched on early modern European history (which was an elective), so half of what I know about the French Revolution is from reading _A Tale of Two Cities_ in British Literature (which was part of the core curriculum).
(Also, later regicides have targeted royal families much earlier in the process, from the Romanovs to the various British puppets in the post-Ottoman world. On the other hand Mao rehabilitated Puyi, which was nice of him.)
I find Salem fascinating. While she often clearly speaks out to keep things more humane, calling out performance culture, hyperindividualism and neoliberalism, she is still herself part of that system and does not seem to understand the systemic implications of capitalism. She is a bit of a Shrödingers Anti-Capitalist
Because the left doesn’t work
idk I used to like Salem a lot, but nowadays I feel like she says things that are quite obvious and already known. And in addition to that she kinda overuses her ASMR voice and sounds like a bully quite often.
It makes it harder and harder to watch and enjoy her content, which is sad...
This!! I’m not subbed but watch her videos when it pops up on my recommendations. Her latest video is so boring and she is literally whispering the whole time. It’s awful
I agree with the voice thing, like even I as a quiet person can speak clearly, she is just mumbling constantly, makes it insufferable to watch
I typically watch her when I see her vids on my page but the AMSR whispering made me not finish this latest video.
I think the ASMR thing is a pivotal part of her branding, like very purposeful because some people like that. So if I don't like that, I'm not gonna yuck someone else's yum. Now, having misinformation or inaccurate information or such surface level commentary that you aren't really adding to the conversation, that I can and will critique.
Yup!!!!
I’ve unfollowed awhile ago because a lot of her videos are poorly researched and it’s been quite hard to watch her video
Same
She’s recently started whispering in her videos as well for ✨asmr ✨ Absolutely unbearable cadence.
@@user-tc9ko6gi6jas an avid asmr fan I will not take this slander! /hj
In all seriousness, the quiet audio is not for everyone and that’s fine, but the lack of research or context does make it harder to watch her video. She seems like a good creator and there’s a lot of stuff she does well, I just hope she takes this critique well and makes better videos as a result.
Edit: autocorrect doesn’t know what asmr is, apparently 😂
Her research is so poor that she thought bpd means bipolar disorder, when it seems like common knowledge that bpd means bordeline personality disorder, a completly different condition. As someone with both it was so cringe to watch
Yeah I mean her arguments are very surface level
“It’s not that deep” a classic Thought Terminating Cliche.
if capitalism bad, then why iPhone?
i read this just as he said it and i JUST opened the comments 😭😭
To the point about misogyny:
I love spectacles like the Met Gala and I’m still for a digital guillotine. A point that I haven’t heard anyone mention is not to compare female influencers to male ones, it’s to focus on a very obvious male figures that have wealth influence: professional athletes
I genuinely hated how gendered the criticisms felt but they were still warranted. The Met Gala, for all its problems, is still an event that happens once a year to raise money to operate the Costume Institute. It’s something for the girls, gays, and theys. Yes it does grab a lot of attention and you know what else does? The multiple professional sports teams in the multiple sports playing games literally every week. Remember taking the knee? We all love our circuses and should be keeping the same energy for these same circuses.
This is very true! The met gala was a boiling point this year for discussions of wealth disparity and the protections afforded to the rich and famous living in the imperial core. But of all events, it's ironically not the best example for this kind of critique? It's a charity ball that funds a public good that is literally a museum that's free for all New York residents to enjoy. It preserves fashion history, including the history of Palestinian fashion! There are historical Palestinian artifacts being preserved by the met institute! And the gala pays for that preservation and the important people that do that work. Is the met gala above critique? Absolutely not! Frankly it's disturbing that we have to HOPE wealthy people care enough to preserve art in this way. But it also seems short-sighted that the met of all events is getting the spotlight as this sort of dystopian juxtaposition compared to other big events
@@princessjellyfish98 I think this is a bogus argument and I think the met gala is perfect for this sort of critique like Iike I'm more than a fashion enthusiast and I'm an aspiring fashion designer for the queer community like ballroom fits and drag kinda fits like I love fashion down but why is the preservation of art have to go before attending to the needs of people enduring a genocide? like i get it preserving art is preserving culture but what's the point if the people who created the culture are gone based on a political conflict that's exterminating them which you can help prevent by prioritizing them first and taking further actions. Why can't we care about both art and ppl at the same time? Make it make sense cuz it doesn't. We are as valuabe as the art and the cultures that we make or create like i don't think you know what your argument implies about the value of human life esp those of Palestinian people and other oppressed ppl like can you watch your mouth cuz that's disrespectful and so tone death seriously. I value what cannot be replaced way more like art can be recycled remade but when a human life is lost there's no getting it back so why u so hell bent on valuing art more than people cuz that's what your argument implies. Get your priorities straight cuz they ain't by the way u be talking. The logical poverty in this argument is beyond me 🙄
@@BeautyAnarchist I can see why you could get these ideas out of my argument but that wasn't what I was trying to imply at all! I was simply saying that the met wasn't the best target for criticism, in comparison to other massive events like the Super Bowl that draw in celebrities and press (that's why I was replying to OP, because that was their point). I think if there was more public awareness about what the met is and what is does, people would view it differently, not that they'd stop critiquing it all together, or that they should! It's also not an either/or argument. Whether or not the met gala happens wouldn't directly stop the genocide in Gaza. It's certainly horrifying that life goes on as normal for most Americans while our government funds a genocide. But I think this circles back to many people's critique of the blocklist movement in general, that the energy against celebrities is good but that it's sometimes unfocused. Events like the met being covered the same as usual IS a distraction from what's happening in Gaza, and it IS fucked that that sort of coverage or attention is given priority over documenting genocide and providing aid. But this isn't the first year that the met has been criticized in this way, and it's also not the first time the intentions of the met have been framed somewhat disingenuously by people who simply don't know what it's for. At the same time all this influencer drama was going down, people were using it to spread conspiracies about "why they don't let us see inside" when it's literally just a charity ball. I'd say misinformation is also an unhelpful distraction. And furthermore, this is not the first year that the Israeli occupation has terrorized the people of Gaza, and so this has (thankfully) become a time of reckoning about all of the bread and circuses going on in the imperial core. I was saying that the theatrics and marketing of the met give people a warped perception of what it is, and that misinformation itself can also be a distraction--from other, similarly frivolous events, and from the interconnected nature of capitalism and politics. The celebrities are even a distraction from the people who attend the met and don't get photographed, the ones who are actually wealthy enough to buy their own ticket, and include those invested in genocide and occupation! And that those same people are also the ones the public is forced to rely on to preserve art, which is fucked! I certainly understand the emotional reaction you had to my comment considering the subject at hand, but please read more carefully next time before using such strong language in return
Thank you!
@@princessjellyfish98 honestly how many people know it's a charity event? And everytime it happens I don't see some big announcement about how much money they raised or what the money in the past has done. Not even in the interviews
Petition to see Elliot on Real Housewives.
“I’m not here to create drama, I’m here to give nuanced critique of your behaviour and its impact. Also, I may or may not have facial hair.”
(Jk you’re awesome)
“i may or may not have facial hair” lmaoo
@@elliotsangestevezHaha I knew you’d find that funny
Hahaha yes, we definitely need this ❤😂😂😂
You got jokes! I’m here for it😂!
@@JulianSteve Thank you! That’s so sweet 😂
I've run into this in real world activism a few times, and I'm personally convinced that anyone talking about how "I would agree with what you're trying to do, if it was done the way I think it should be done" is not actually politically active or genuinely interested in trying to solve the issues at hand, it's a reactionary response to shield oneself from responsibility to help solve something you know is wrong.
Absolutely. Respectability and politeness are used to keep people oppressed. "I would have supported your human rights, but you weren't nice when asking for them."
Thank you ! I was trying to explain that to the mad ppl in her comment section awhile ago but they just don’t get it LMAO
Exactly !
the salem witch trials comparison was wild lmao.. great vid as per!!
the comparison literally just sees it as, 'people kill other people because of something?' 😭😭like huh
especially because all of the victims of the salem witch trials were people who were poor or otherwise undesirable within their community. its insane to compare this to celebrities getting blocked on the internet, especially for such valid reasons
I unsubscribed from her channel a few years ago after she had that extremely petty feud with Shanspeare, it showed me the true content of her character (yes, she "apologized" but her first impulse was to attack a smaller, fellow poc creator and that never sit right with me). Her content has always been pretty surface-level anyway.
i read about this a few times in the comments and would like to know more. was shanspeare mentioned in her videos? can i check out her apology somewhere?
@@117mel same, no one knows where this video is but someone said it was about three years ago, that seems to be the only knowledge people have about it.
She's trying to be forcibly sassy and funny and it just never lands well for me. And she doesn't do even a bit of research. And she constantly repeats her points ad nauseam in newer vids.
I have to say, I do think the blockout was unfocused and confusing. I thought it was about blocking celebs who didn't call for a ceasefire but then some block lists had people who HAD called for a ceasefire and then it seemed like the overall point was unclear. By all means people should block celebrities if they want to but it did seem like people were making it out to be more profound than it really was.
Did you watch Elliot's video on this topic?
@@judysm95 💯
Yes ! the problem is organization 😭 we lack that really bad I fear ! Any form of activism needs some kind of organization imo
Most of the disorganization was that soooo many people were making lists and obviously didn't have the same criteria or did the same amount of research on the people they called to boycott. Which honestly I don't know how anyone could organize something like without it going off rails pretty fast.
omg I love that you made this video! I commented on her video "what a strange video, no comments about Palestine" and about 6 people came to say that I was harassing her, that I was the type she was talking about, etc. I thought I was crazy
Her accusing people of having lost the plot, then her fanbase jumping on you when you remind her WHAT the plot is about...ironic lol.
@@judysm95 I know! the mob even made me doubt whether I was really right
That's bonkers omg
That's insane. And frankly disappointing tbh because that makes her the influencer she's talking about, with zealous fan
I also commented on her vid and the mob of ppl defending this bad take is hilarious 💀
I used to be subscribed to Salem but I had to unsubscribe years ago because I just couldn't handle how surface-level her videos were. I felt like I wasn't getting anything new from her channel. Disappointing that her content remains seemingly unchanged.
I feel it's generally gotten worse. I'm a bit surprised at how many people in the comments talk about watching both Salem and Elliot, as well as channels like Shanspeare, when they provide much more nuanced and pertinent criticism and analysis in their videos. To me it's like comparing a gossip column to a well-researched article..
@@onigirlsits possible yo enjoy both types of content.
I did the same years ago because I kept noticing that she was putting info in her videos that was just factually incorrect (exactly like her French Revolution story here). I hope her subscribers do their own fact checking.
I did the same years ago because I kept noticing that she was putting info in her videos that was just factually incorrect (exactly like her French Revolution story here). I hope her subscribers do their own fact checking.
What did it for me was the gen alpha video where she critiqued millennials for raising iPad kids. Her critique was reactionary and individualist instead of based on systemic critique. It made me realize that while she would often having similar conclusions on topic , we differ on how we get to those conclusions. I don’t think her content is bad, it’s just a bit superficial for my taste.
Hayley often talks about being smart and earning a degree in a STEM field. And while I understand that history would not have been her focus, she would have learned a lot about the scientific method and about research. I believe she is extremely excited to have gotten where she is where she can rub shoulders with famous people and that has encouraged her to not look into what the rest of the world is going through and being able to ignore all sorts of things. And I believe she is surrounded by people who also are inclined to turn their back on the rest of society. I hope she grows but I don't think she deserves the public's attention and "forgiveness."
STEM without the humanities
@@elfsongtavernThat's why STEM jobs are filled with unempathetic, callous men. Humanities are feminine and beneath them.
too many people think that the only type of intelligence is STEM and that's why this planet is failing. She may be smart when it comes to that but clearly not when it comes to anything else. She's so smart but can't do basic research about historical facts and sociopolitical issues? like you said, she would've learned how to do that in college.
Hayley looks like every other narcissists influencers out there idk why ppl love her that much just because apparently she's good looking and has "great humor" (Her humor is literally just 'person who said the joke louder')
Lmao yeah Salem definitely gives "STEM grad" in terms of their analytical and critical abilities (which are non-existent)
I think Salem didn't get it, but that she didn't want to get it. I like Salem, I watch her often. However, we have to remember both she, and her sister, are influencers. Salem isn't just commentary, she also makes very influencer styled videos on Instagram. Her sister is well known influencer. Salem doesn't get it and has sympathy for Haley because she is also someone who is actually wealthy (not to the same degree at Haley) and unrelatable. But, just like Haley, she wasn't always what she is now, so she doesn't realize what the average people are trying to say and do. She is a Haley and unless she realizes that, she's not going to understand the movement. It is personal for her, even if she doesn't actively realize it is personal.
Salem has always been an influencer posing as someone who cares about intellectual discourse. Unfortunately, her audience seems to not care either.
she has a sister????
@@ArcadiasPlanet Yes her Salem Tovar's sister is @PennyTovar she's a popular creator in the beauty and lifestyle space using her medication experience for education purposes in those topics. If I'm remembering their Q&A together, Penny inspired Salem to start her career.
@@kiterafrey yup! I used to watch penny way way way way back in the days
Honestly, I unfollowed her after she released this one because she’s been missing the mark for me for a while.
Just my observation, but now that her platform has taken off, I feel like some of the candid takes she has are hypocritical to literal entire videos that she’s made in the past. that - and I’m so tired of her intros always starting with “sorry I was gone for a while, I didn’t feel like making videos”
I’ve felt recently that she’s just reciting takes and information she’s seen online and not really coming up with her own opinions for a while, which is why I unsubbed.
sameee. and the fact that she did not mention 🍉 when it was one of the very big reason hailey was being criticised says a lot. her research and some of her talking points have been a miss for a while.
And there was that time she accused another UA-camr (iirc Shanspeare) of "copying" and got her fans to dogpile them because they made a video on a similar topic... which they had been working on since BEFORE Salem's vid came out. The two worked it out privately but it really soured my opinion on her. Also you can't own a topic of discussion, that's silly.
She's also either becoming out of touch or is willfully ignorant of Palestine. Like the privilege to not worry or give AF about what's happening. Also saying "just delete tiktok" not only is a boomer take, but that's exactly what the US government is trying to do!!! They blatantly said it's because we're getting videos and more information from Palestinians sharing their suffering to bring awareness. She's a major hypocrite telling us to not listening to an influencer while Being an influencer and sponsored in the video. She's no longer relatable and needs to stop trying to be.
Same asf. She awlays talks about how influencers trying to be relatable is cringe but then is clearly in a high tax bracket and doing well but then goes "well I also eat hot chip so I'm in the trenches with yall too!! "
When she victimized EVERY woman, it seemed as if she was trying to justify what Hailey did. If she truly cared for women would've talked about P@lestinian women.
Thank you for articulating my feelings surrounding her video, in particular the dismissive nature harkening to right or centeric rhetoric. You hit the nail on the head. There wasn't any solutions just an overall dismissal of an attempt for some kind of social justice. As many have discussed including yourself, there are many flaws with the "trend" but as I've said before and will say again, however people bring more light and justice to Palestine amd similar world atrocities such as Congo, Sudan, Syria, (and many more) the better. If people are only doing it to "look good" or to be perceived as moral humans well they could be the connection to have a billionaire donate or speak up, at the very least awareness was raised. People are talking in important ways and this could be the beginnings of a more educated society. Critique is of the upmost importance to improve any movement, but poking holes without any repair not only sinks the ship but causes a lot of harm.
The difference between net positive and ultimate solution. No one is claiming the blockout shit was the solution to the genocide in Palestine, or that celebrities are the *only* people we should be putting pressure on. It's actually disrespectful to the folks who've been doing a lot of hard work the past year, as if this blockout trend negates any of it. Social change requires multiple simultaneous actions, everyone can play a different and/or multiple parts.
@@judysm95 I absolutely wholeheartedly agree. I can see how net positivity can lead to complacency. I do think more should be done further than the trendification social justice movements, including acknowledging those who have been speaking about these topics and petitioning for change for years even before last October. I just believe that this trend cast a wider net to an audience who may not have been concerned about global topics. This may have been the starting post for some, but it may affect change within individuals to stand up and actually take things seriously. To go beyond a social media movement and research for themselves. Hopefully, with these small actions they can amplify them to more significant change later on. And as far as the celebrities go, good drain their wallets for a good just cause. The disproportion of wealth in and of itself is quite sickening and should be spread if that's the least that someone in their position can and should do.
Yess to all of this
Exactlyyy ! Literally been explaining this in her comment section since her vid came out and they were acting like it was a terrible thing to say LMAO
i don’t what justice you guys think you bring to either of this places
firts of all,congo and sudan are barely talked about
second of all,again what justice?two insta stories about sudan are not actually doing the people any justice because in the real world there is no genuine discusion on sudan(same thing with congo)
the truth is that when the war with hmas will be over people will stop speaking about sudan and congo alltogether because it was never about genuine supoort for them(just like it never was for palestinians)
and with syria we shouldn’t even start because there is no better place to showcase the lack of genuine care for palestinians than the case of syria and the way assad treats palestinains
or khomeini for that record
this men are by far the worst thing for the middle east in present but will they be criticised or called out?no,because being against assad doesn’t give you the same social capital you can get by speaking about gaza(this again not because celebrities or whyte leftists care about them)
The jersey in this video is EVERYTHING 🔥
it's a football shirt! it's the official shirt for Palestino, a first division football club from Chile, founded by the 🍉 🍉 🍉 community in the 1920s ;)
Más que un equipo, todo un pueblo 🇵🇸🇨🇱
@@maaidalenathat is so cute 💗 🍉
I also think it's kind of interesting how Saelm is wearing a Hozier shirt when Hozier has been vocal in his support for Palestine for years and has called for a ceasefire during his shows but that's just a thought
I feel like she couldn't have missed all the talk about Palestine
Hozier has gotten so popular that half his fans these days are absolute tits lol
his ceasefire was most likely not an actual ceasefire proposal but just for face value
what exactly do you mean? he has advocated for it multiple times. i’m not trying to be mean i’m genuinely just asking for clarification
Actually I am surprised I saw on a tiktok that Salem is part of the creators for Palestine and not once did she mention Palestine in that video which is a major factor in this movement. At the end of her video I was confused what her point of the video was. It was kind of defending these influencers. Then she mentions for people to focus on people that are in positions of power to change...when people literally are doing that! Her video actually doesn't help at all.
i stopped watching and unsubscribed halfway through her video i have no interest in consuming content from someone who couldnt even bother to do basic history research for a video, it shows a lack of responsibilty and respect towards her audience🙂
Lack of history research lack of mentioning 🇵🇸 lack of compassion for anyone other than influencers I mean the list goes on and on for that video lol
@@bambyy-l3972 the fact that she didn't even palestine in the video was bonkers, that's like making a video on WWII without mentioning Hitler
She definitely did. Just didn't mention it which is off@@pizzahutz_inthegarage
@@pizzahutz_inthegarage and the way she said marie antoinette's execution STARTED the french revolution...? i know the french revolution isn't something everyone knows the details of, but to then not even fact check yourself? that's a pretty major part of the whole revolution. even as someone into history i would never make any historical claim without checking at least once.
wealthy celebrities and billionaires are not just insulated from consequences, they're fully insulated from having to experience life as everyone else experiences it. private schools, cars, planes, penthouses, views. they literally look down on everyone else and view others and not more than tools
hey👋🏻 can you tell me more about these things? I really need to stop my parasocial relationship. Even couple of sentences would be nice, please.
She lost me when she did a video about parenting and iPad kids. There was no nuance and extremely judgmental of parenting with no context in relation to why parents are so tired and don’t have all the time in the world with their kids etc.
Same!! I unsubbed after 2-3 of her "parenting" videos. She sounded so clueless while being so judgy.
Instead of dismissing what a female influencer did, hold male influencers to the same level as them. That's equality. Not ignoring a woman's mistakes.
i’m a fan of salems content but i couldn’t finish watching the video because of how dismissive it sounded
Same... pretty disappointing.
I saw the title and couldn’t even watch it
@@Tamamnett me too😂😂I think I avoid most commentary channels on it because ik they will all say the same dismissive thing.
@@Tamamnett literally same
It really is a major flaw to ignore how Hayley's "cancelation" was directly tied to Palestine because the infamous Met Gala video was the sort of event horizon of celebrity/influencer silence on Palestine
For one: there were already calls to not engage with the met gala at all and instead focus on speaking on palestine
Secondly: she is an influencer specifically, meaning that she was especially hurt by the block out since she is much more dependent on social media engagement than other types of celebrities and especially more traditional celebrity.
So, ya. While i can see the argument that Hayley may have been overly targeted compared to other celebrities, thinking back to when the met gala happened there was already very much a growing frustraition with celebrity silence on palestine, especially with all the movements to get families money to cross the border to safety that celebrities could raise a lot of awareness for and honestly could single-handedly fully fund some efforts.
So ya, to sum up the situation as the everyman being frustrated over wealth disparity and taking it out on a wealthy woman is kinda frustrating to see when many of the people calling out Hayley and other celebrities were and still are giving all they can to Palestinian families.
glad to see this, normally like her content but this video and the one where she downplayed Mikayla lying about her lashes because Jeffree star used it as an opportunity to stage a comeback didn’t sit right with me…sometimes seems like youtubers just see whatever’s happening on Tiktok and take the opposite stance to be edgy instead of actually looking into what’s happening
I never thought about that but maybe that's what she's doing. Taking the opposite stance, no matter how wrong it is, so that her content seems new, fresh, and different.
THAT WAS HER, I recently watched a video dragging that fiasco and I was like “there was someone else who was acting like it wasn’t a big deal blatantly lying about a product but their name escapes me…”
Sis been weird
@@LethalLemonLimecontrarian asl
I like Salem and am subscribed. I didn’t finish watching the video because I didn’t want to unsubscribe after the video 😢 I couldn’t make it far into the video cause it felt like she was making an excuse as to why she as an influencer and other celebrities shouldn’t speak up on the big platform they have. I mean how hard is it to inform yourself and in turn making sure your audience is informed too.
I totally felt that too.
Girl SAMEEEE, the thumbnail was enough to upset me, I have family roots in Lebanon and Palestine so I had to skip on that one bc I didn't want to leave an angry comment since I'm extremely sensitive about the situation...
@@AnotherSlay222 for real she sounds tone deaf throughout the whole video. I hope she actually listens and grows from this.
I don't get it.
If you have to go out of your way to avoid the opinions of a person so as to not dislike them shouldn't you just...go out of the way of that person?
@@michimatsch5862 I mean if you want to look at it like that, sure you should just go and unfollow them. But personally I agree with most of her videos and this one I just knew it was gonna be very tone deaf. I don’t expect any human to be perfect. So you will not always have the best opinion and that’s ok if you learn to listen and grow from it. I’m hoping she listens and grows
I used to subscribe to Salem but her videos feel slightly more gossip channel-y. (Which isn't a bad thing) It just feels a little surface level and clickbaity to me..
Ive been put off by her content for a while I’m glad you’re finally doing an analysis on this
Her videos are usually very poorly researched, often have misinformation and don't any further than surface level in regards to her commentary. Not a fan I don't understand how she got so popular
@Radish-Rat its a circle. The adults leave these spaces cause at some point all of these shallow commentary channels get boring, so it leaves the channels with even more positive feedback from children, repeating the cicle
@Radish-Ratdepends on what you consider to be 'kids'
Me too, but I couldnt say why😅
Same here
I used to watch Salem years ago but as time passes I find that her videos have always been pretty surface level and pastiche. Her content is easily digestible for the masses though, something I’d maybe let play in the background. Would like more nuanced, studied, & genuine content from her.
This was a great video and thank you for addressing the lack of mention of 🍉🍉🍉 for the context
lack of mention by who?everyone is speaking about gaza
To be honest, I actually dont want celebrities to speak on issues or rather Im apprehensive. During BLM celebrities basically made it about their brand and interfered with a lot meaningful discussions we were having about it. Im a victim of police brutality and can not afford to have idiots speak on my behalf. This is not to say im not appreciative of the ones who cared, but I'd rather them shut up and not get in my way than for them to speak and make things worse.
Some of her critique is about the usefulness of the movement which I agree with. But I do agree that she spends a lot of time giving grace to rich and famous. If she had been more thoughtful in her analysis she could have made better arguments.
This video helped a lot in understanding this movement. I had the "i dont know anything so i wont have a stance or talk about it mindset", but at some point i was annoyed that i didnt know what was going on and just read into the whole history of palestine/israel from late 1800 to today until it clicked. I kinda had sympathy for the celebrities in this case, because i felt like not everyone needs to know or take a stance on everything, probably cause i did this myself. Ultimately i was affected by my surroundings to change that behaviour, but people in higher class can just close their eyes and ears, because they can shift their surroundings to accomodate themselves, rather than be part of a community, that impacts you in different ways.
i knew i wasnt tweaking when i was put off watching her video this time. it just didn't align with, as you said 'my moral compass'.
so much happening in the world, and I'm unable to do anything but spread the information, while these celebrities attend the met gala and not spend a dime to help the gazans
Same
from the video of "female gaze vs male gaze" where she didnt understand what female gaze is and didnt actually touch on anything..... i knew i couldnt watch her content as someone who massively consumes commentary
it makes me crazy when people dont see celebs part in all of the wealth disparity and say we shouldn't focus on them. thats so dumb because being a celeb is literally funded by lobbyists and politicians. the military even. corporations and politicians WANT us to be distracted by celebs and be supportive of their way of life because its the candy dangled just out of reach of the masses. trying to envision themselves in the shoes of a celeb one day. the literal way they keep people on the hamster wheel. once we start to see through them and refuse to be distracted by them, the elusion drops and suddenly more change is able to happen because no one cares anymore for celebs fully anti human existence and theyre stupid show of wealth.
This is very well said!! They’re kind of like the victors in the hunger games.
This is just taylor swift level of feminist
I'm so excited to see this video!!! I'm a Selam fan, but she missed the mark Sooooo badly in this video. So we definitely needed this reaction.
I unsubscribed to Salem after that video. I’m happy to see someone respond and maybe be able to educate her
Same !!
I don't think educate is the right word....
It's about constructive criticism, it's not about educating anyone. Salem is an adult and she is able to educate herself on her own...Elliot is not responsable for her education...in my opinion
I unsubscribed when she was talking about how her car was stolen in her gated community and thought her neighborhood was safe from crime because it was gated. That's when I knew she was out of touch and had money.
I’ve never cared for her content, not out of a dislike of her…I like her but her content never appealed to me. I hope this critique will be considered by her to tackle complex topics with more cultural humility and less of a Western/first world lens.
I think she had some beef with Shanspeare a while back and I took Shan's side.
@@dopex89what the beef was about???
@@daimanekeyre2259 I think one of them copied the others’ video idea
I like some of her videos, but there are videos that I completely disagree with. I think this is okay
@@daimanekeyre2259 okay if I remember correctly, Salem had a video about Cringe, and Shanspeare posted one on the same topic shortly after. The issue was Salem *allegedly* put Shan on blast for stealing her ideas or something, without talking privately about it first? I think Shaniya got some hate, and mentioned it in one her following videos (at the time, Salem's channel was a lot bigger). At that point I had been watching Salem, but the whole story put me off so I can't really enjoy her content anymore.
Edit to add: I think Shaniya did not mention the name of the creator who sent her fans after her, but it was easy to figure out.
See this is what happens when drama channels try to insert themselves in topics they have little to no understanding of and pull “ it’s not that deep!” When it’s actually deeper than deep.
Hey from the only other UA-camr who wears a Palestino shirt in their videos lol. Salem Tovar seems like a nice person and her videos are decent, I feel like - and it's an issue I am trying to articulate better for a future video - there are many commentary UA-camrs who express what seem like leftist ideals without being able to actually articulate them properly or analyse issues within a leftist framework. I have been watching a lot more of them lately. I think FunkyFrogBait weaves the line the best of having funny mainstream content but when they delve into leftist ideas its clear they know what they are talking about (if you also know the subject)
So a lot of the stuff you point out in this video is the result of having maybe instinctively good morals/intentions, but not coming at issues from a consistent political framework. Like hypocrite because of TikTok/Iphone. If you asked many why they thought capitalism was bad I don't think you'd get a consistent answer - anyway good video!
glad to be hearing from you, you make good stuff! i have been thinking about similar themes lately. im happy to know im not the only one
I'm so tired of ppl using the misogyny card everytime a female influencer or celeb does something wrong because it shows that they don’t know how to hold women accountable or anybody accountable for that matter. A woman being ignorant isn’t a "girl being a girl", it's called being disgusting. Ppl can criticize both parties in the same breath, I hate it when ppl only think one sided.
Tovar's video is what happens when your feminism isnt intersectional, and you lack an understanding of materialism
came from her insta story which said that this videos was bashing on her and so did the comments, but I only see constructive criticism. It’s actually a positive thing that creators are exchanging different point of views and critiquing(which is not always a negative thing) each other.
I tried her content, but something about her takes rubbed me the wrong way. Her videos seem kinda ego driven rather than driven on a pursuit to gain knowledge and inform their audience.
Like, we are just watching her talk. And that doesn't necessarily mean what she has to say is 100% valid just because she has a platform.
That's a really good way to put it.
Drama between two of my favourite content creators??
Just kidding :)
I left her video with similar thoughts. Quite a lot of context was missed. Thank you for this thoughtful and respectful critique!
I do not wish to hear the argument that celebrities cannot influence the public discourse. A recent example would be, Nicola Coughlan who has consistently used her platform to raise awareness and money for Palestine, especially when more eyes were on her due to her new show. Girlie wore the badge of resistance, on every red carpet and interview. Every voice matters, especially the one that can reach millions!!
the palestino jersey!! love to see it🇵🇸🤍
I appreciate this response tbh. I’m not sure what inspired Salem to get into commentary in the first place, but like you said, hopefully she has an interest in growing and developing a more complete understanding of the topics she commentates on when receiving feedback in this format.
I actually am somewhat exhausted with videos that to some degree are under researched and perhaps not fully thought out being distributed to an audience as big as hers. It’s ofc up to her audience as to whether they’re interested in her thoughts and her ways of communicating them but sometimes it’s just an unhelpful entry point for the conversation overall.
"Does this guy have a problem with people being rich?"
Yes, we all should think being rich is a problem
😮so no one should ever be successful
@@Enragedgay678 why the only form of being successful is being rich and exploring the work of others to make money?
@khaossecond I honestly was having a bad day and wanted to argue with someone when I commented. Didn't even watch the video till this morning
@@Enragedgay678 oh no worries! It's ok, I get it, we all do that sometimes
I hope you enjoyed the video and understood it's point of view
her iphone argument made me roll my eyes, seriously.
I know it's incredibly off-topic, but my thing about "the curtains are just fucking blue" is that... The author made the curtains blue. For some reason, it was an intentional choice. Interrogating why they made that choice is valid and valuable -- whether or not it's "just set dressing," or something more, is about a reader's interpretation of those symbols. But to deny that they ARE symbols in the first place... I dunno, misses the mark for me, about why we read and consume media.
And even if there's no intent, you can still find meaning in media. You don't have to be critical of everything or look deeply every time, but don't try to tell other people it's a waste of time just because you don't care.
People forget that art has intent in every part of it, whether conscious or subconscious. Why even mention the curtain color if it’s not symbolic? And like… color is culturally defined and has cultural meaning, people just hate the US education system (validly) and deal w it by becoming anti intellectual entirely.
isn't the joy in reading and digesting any kind of media is looking for some kind of meaning. to walk away with something that stuck with u. no matter if it was as insignificant as the color of the curtains to the overarching themes
I remember the "curtains are just blue" arguments turning up in school, and it's always so frustrating. In daily life it might be rare to find something with that level of intention, but the kinds of novels that become classics are very much written on *purpose*. The authors wrote because they had something to say, and being able to recognise when the curtains being blue *does* matter is a very important skill. Being able to recognise deeper meaning and interpretation is so useful
Genuinely been waiting on a video like this. I’ve seen a consistent amount of critiques levied against social activism that involves calling out celebrities as “expecting the world” of said celebrity or that “they can’t fix everything”. It’s a very frustrating take that I wasn’t fully capable of unpacking, but for some reason it seemed like more of a defense of the celebrity. Rather than unpacking how the system of capitalism at large has baked in such severe inequalities that explicitly allow something as horrific as multiple genocides to occur, we’re arguing whether or not its fair to expect the beneficiaries of capitalism to be more willing to contend with it. In short, losing the forest for the trees. Appreciate your work.
salem literally did the thing from that comic that's like
"we should improve society somewhat."
"and yet you participate in society! curious. i am very intellegent."
I watched Salem for a while, but after a while she felt like the "yeah, but...." commentary channel. Meaning whatever a lot of people were saying at the moment, she doesn't quite take an opposite POV, she just looks down fairly dismissively on what is in the discourse and wants to poke holes in everyone's arguments.
It's giving really heavy NLOC energy (Not Like Other Commentators).
Digital praxis does not need to be critiqued out of existence. We’re clearly onto something here.
++++
On the left we’re very bad about lifting people up and guiding positive actions. We criticize each other endlessly (and often with surface-level critiques without broader views/perspectives/coherent contexts like Salem here) and focus more on being Not Bad than on being Good. We need to be better about communication+education and praxis online
@@KatherineCrawford67But could we, PLEASE, move away from ‘the LEfT needs to sugar coat, coddle, and douse every moving component in micro glitter so it’s palatable and whitewashed’ mindset? There’s plenty of optimism and positivity to embrace here if you’re not centering your feelings over actual palpable change.
Refining and making sure said praxis is actual praxis rather than showboating pageantry is integral to progress. We can’t kill it with toxic positivity and participation awards.
@@eyysha sure but refining is usually one of the last steps in the creative process. And theres lots of legacy praxis that’s purely performative that we still perform regularly. We dont really have the luxury of perfectionism at this point.
@eyysha the problem is a lot of this critique does little to continue praxis or action and instead halts it with endless squabbling
She really pulled out the classic "and yet you participate in society. Curious!"
She obviously just saving her own ass because she knows that this movement touches her too. So she wont judge Hailey cuz they are in same boat lol
Salem Tovar’s content is just entertainment, it’s not eduction and barely discussion. If you listen to content like hers when you’re not truly engaged in what is being said you run the risk of simply agreeing with everything she says, not really questioning it. Thanks for this video, discourse like this is important to break that cycle.
Also her argument basically just boiling down to misogyny, and the Logan Paul point is a little ridiculous- he got SO much backlash (rightly so) and its only years later that he managed to redo his image while the haley thing has only been a matter of weeks. You don’t need to be a philosopher to understand why the video would be in distaste. I haven’t watched her in ages but her video shocked me honestly because reveals Tovar’s lack of ability to engage in analytical thinking. I can’t believe she made that iphone point as well when thats such a famous meme lmfao.
the "funny how you criticize society yet participate in said society hmm interesting " counterargument is so fucking tired...
She has no clue what’s really going on. Very surface level take
I feel like she just enjoys hating on things for the sake of hating anymore. I used to really love her sass, but sometimes she comes off like a bit of a bully.
Actually, I personally think she's one of the most respectful down to earth creators nowadays, but to each their own.
I'm pretty sure she literally bullied Shanspeare so you're right on the money with that one
@@explodingxlightsreally? When? was it in a video or twitter/insta?
@ghrjne it's mostly in the way she sometimes generalizes. I kind of chalk it up to my own sensitivity sometimes, but i noticed it wasnt feeling so pleasant to listen to anymore, so I stopped. Absolutely valid of you to feel different!
@@Zoe-sp1sbsame, it made me stop watching her videos
i'm glad i grew out of watching ppl like Salem and Zoe unlimited, who never offered particularly deep (lol), interesting, or particularly thought-out takes on pop culture events. It's all the same and yet they claim to be on our side of the fence when they are in this uncanny space of imitating real people's takes. It's almost like an uncanny attempt to be relatable lmao
it will never cease to amaze me how someone so ignorant can be so confident. and there are just too many Salem-s online.
This is me telling my Liberal friends “u have the right intentions but lack a material analysis”
Fr, I don’t watch Salem but I was like what is this liberal nonsense
If I hear someone else pronounce it "gill-o-tine" instead of "gi-yi-tine" I'm going to be mildly upset and (insert creative internet threat here).
gill ô tine sounds so much better though 😭😭 I hate french
@portaldolphin13 It sounds to awkward though, gi-yi-tine has a nice flow, "gil-ô-tine" has a random stop in the middle to pronounce the "o" after the "ll" it sounds choppy and stunted, much like most of English it seems.
@deerecoyote2040 yeah actually I agree, I feel like people should choose the word based on what language they are speaking or how hard or soft their accent is so it fits in.
@portaldolphin13 Yeah, that makes sense. I get it. I just like pronouncing non English words in their original way just because of personal preference lol. But I can see why others wouldn't, it can sound a bit jarring sometimes.
i thought i was the only person put off by it
Anytime someone draws a comparison between themselves or someone getting called out to the salem witch trials, I think of "The Witch Trials of JK Rowling".
Idk why people think it's a good argument to compare rich white women getting critcism for the negative effects of them misusing their influence to a real life tragedy that killed people, mainly marginalized/lower class women. If that isn't tone deaf then I don't know what is 💀
Yeah the witch trails being in the name implies the person being "persecuted" is actually innocent, because as you said, those women were just innocent's framed with something based off rumors or people being petty or vindictive etc. so it's def not the most clever way to call it.
I unfollowed Salem on 2021 when she tried to accuse Shanspeare of copying her Cringe Culture video. Shanspeare discusses it in her 'Originality is Dead, and I'm Dancing On Its Grave' video. I thought her call out was immature, no one owns a topic of conversation, and there were already other videos talking about cringe culture before hers
I think my main issue is that Marie antoinette didn't say that, in fact that phrase was said before she even went to France and it was used as propaganda.
I wanna thank you for making this video, i thought i was the only one who really just didn't like the way she worded the whole situation in the video, i did nake a comment on her video but then deleted:
I fully understand your viewpoint but let me clear, celebrities as we all know make their whole brand about activism , not every celebrity, but most do, about women’s rights, lgbt rights, ect, ect, heck, supporting lgbt people wasn’t even a thing since it wasn’t beneficial to the celebrity at that time, now it is (Yes, and, is a good example) hence when people now want them to speak about issues that are very real, they’re quiet. That’s one of the issues of why people are mad at them. Yes you’re right, celebrities aren’t politicians, yes they can’t change the outcome of the world by sharing (Selena) but their voice and platform can have a huge influence on an audience, most people follow celebrities rather than politicians, why don’t you look back at the 2020 election, who was speaking about voting? *cough* celebrities. People will trust celebrities more than a government official, it is what it is. When they speak about a specific issue, the set subject increases more than before. It’s not that we should rely on these influencers and celebrities as our moral compass but for them to use their platform for a decent cause, put those views on that set cause, they do have the power to mobilize a politician, just look at taylor swift and the situation of ai. I think you're not understanding it or you don't want to understand it.
Misogyny where? And of the women demographic who are getting criticize are specifically white women. Woman of color have been speaking sbout Palestine and about the injustice of this country but no one bats an eye, but when a white creator, whether man or woman, speak on it everyone is looking at them as some heros, I am tired of poc UA-camrs babying white women, that's how we get someone like Taylor Swift.
Great point that folks pull out misogyny. Not to say it doesn't exist, but people holding a white woman to the standard of POC women in the exact same if not higher positions is not misogyny!
Very good point. A LOT of celebrities are political and endorse specific political stances and it IS very reasonable to know what their political stance is on a current issue when they have previously been vocal. Especially if you buy their products or merchandise you would be directly supporting them.
PREACH omg, this was incredibly well-written.
oh i saw your comment on this video and you said so well!!
mm yes French Revolution happen because of marie antoinette
She was a symptom of the larger problem, yes; but she was neither the cause nor was her death the spark that ignited it. Saying she was the reason it happened is not only reductive in a historical sense, it also places entirely too much power in her hands vs the agency of the uprising as a whole after decades of absolutely monstrous treatments she wasn't a part of.
@@rightsarentpolitical the comment was satire but yeah you right the French revolution was indeed not started by marie antoinette’s death
"The people, and the people alone, are the motive force in the making of world history."
I agree, when I was originally watching her video she really missed what the actual point of the block out was, which was a direct response to creators not speaking about Palestine
I've been a fan of Salem for a couple of years now but that video really disappointed me. I was instantly turned off when she said that Marie Antoinette's death caused the french revolution and didn't understand why the phrase "let them eat cake" was an issue. A simple google search would have told her that because of the huge wealth disparity between the royal/nodal families and poor working class caused french revolution because people were dying on the streets from the lack of food (especially bread) and that the term ‘let them eat cake’ was supposedly said by Marie Antoinette when she was told that her subjects were starving.