Zinka MIlanov no solo fue la más grande soprano verdiana, también fue una gran turandot, en su buenas noches era una cantante de otra galaxia, en cuanto a norma las versiones grabadas no dan una semblanza de lo que realmente hacía, en la grabaciones en vivo por ejemplo canto una norma en el Teatro Colón de Buenos Aires que desde el punto de vista del canto fue maravillosa muy superior a cualquier otra cantante aquí mencionada, traten de escuchar alguna versión pirata que circulan en el mercado, en ellas podemos apreciar la inmensidad de su canto, trinos , filados sul fiato, un legato único, y sino la han escuchado entonces no opinen gratuitamente, de esta eximia cantante, y tengan la valentía de ubicarla en su tiempo para calibrar su estilo, canta en el estilo de su época de la misma forma cantaban dentro ese contexto las grandes cantantes coetaneas, lo genial de Milanov es su canto y el canto es música y en eso Milanov es insuperable, es verdad Callas fue una intérprete estupenda pero su canto deja mucho que desear y su variación en los colores de voz no es una virtud sino un defecto, escuchen Elisabeth Rethberg, Renata Tebaldi por decir algunos nombres y distintas épocas y verán que no tienen un arco iris de colores. y recuerden que la ópera es por sobre todo música, y si quieren ver grandes interpretaciones vayan al teatro de prosa
Several greats have succeeded as Norma. Zinka was one, Callas, Sutherland , Caballe, but none seem now in the wings waiting success in this great singing role! Sadly!
Much respect to your list. I am partial to Norma being sung by large weighty voices of great color. I saw neithet Ponselle or Cigna live. The remaining three were great singers of matchless quality. I have lipersformances of Ponselle live as Carmen, Violetta, and Donna Anna and each seem to testify to a voice of great size and power. The same can be siad of Cigna. Live I have her as Norma, Trovatore and Turandot. For me Milanov was greatest soprano I ever encountered bit I can understand a case for being made in your list of 5
Hi. you are a traditionalist ,as i am . For me Norma ,above all ,is being... large!! To have opulence. This channel is WAD ,a Zinka's channel ,& i totally agree. So if we want that kind of voice for Norma ,the list could be also ..... a little bit different.. Vera Amerighi Rutili Rosa Ponselle Iva Pacetti... ( in her Met debut ,she insisted on adding....Me pelegrina ed orfana......that Ponselle used to..... avoid ) Zinka Milanov Maria Pedrini( i adore her S.Carlo Norma) Maria Vitale Anita Cerquetti Caterina Mancini Angeles Gulin Marcella de Osma Nora Lopez Eleanor Ross Nancy Tatum Elena Souliotis Marisa Galvany Ghena Dimitrova ...... .....ladies, if you don't have the right voice for Norma,Medea ,Gioconda,Isolde ,Brunhilde ,Elektra, should be better to avoid them. Otherwise the results are ,something like ... Aliberti's , Devia's or Cioffi's .....(& certainly ,not everybody among the lighter voices ,can be like Deutekom)
@@alexanderzaphir721 Anita Cerquetti and Zinka Milanov attempting to sing Norma only gave pity and concern . Souliotis had big technical problems too (like Cerquetti and Milanov). Dimitrova's Norma was a disaster. Caterina Mancini, Angeles Gulin, Marcella De Osma rough and ordinary singers . Marisa Galvany a fake and a joke. Pythia Delphi please give up the opera, it's not for you
Le problème ne vient pas de sa voix , qui est très belle . C'est son style qui est inadéquat dans le bel canto .C'est une façon de chanter complètement démodée , même à l'époque .Je ne sais pas si elle comprends ce qu'elle chante .Pour moi c'est un désastre stylistique .
Sutherland simply didn’t have the chest tone development to make the appropriate gear change to give contrast between recitative and aria. Even Bonynge said that Sutherland’s recitatives weren’t her strong point, and that Horne gave them more attention. Bonynge and Sutherland insisted on singing being an extension of 'parlando' rather than 'declamato'. 'Sediziose Voce!...' shouldn't be spoken conversationally (parlando), it should be declaimed!
@@MrQwerty88I saw her last three performances in Detroit, 1989, and despite being I’ll did not disappoint in any respects. Many are called to the role and few answer. She had power, high notes and an interpretation that was human. SUTHERLAND WAS GREAT!!
My problem with Milanov are several but she lacked the VAST PALATE of colors required for the role. All throughout the entire opera she gives you the same color except in her pianos. Alone Callas in the first note of her Casta Diva in 1949 in Torino: m.ua-cam.com/video/XX3HDSAQ4JA/v-deo.html. the first note is an open debate with endless possibilities of dissecting multiple colors, richness of sound, squillo yet ease and cream since the note is being hugged by two FAT COLUMNS of breath. Callas first in that Casta Diva has a small crescendo and discrecendo and at least 3 under and overtones of distinctively different colors that are cousins and match to each other to intensify the expression. And this is only the first note alone. Yet Milanov was unable to come with more than 2 colors throughout the entire opera. The lack of colors is so bad that even though or the vowels are there yet they do not sound different. Is like she is singing everything equal. No go back to Callas and listen for EXTREME and real distinction of vowels.
That is true and is a consequence of different schools of singing and work with different conductors. Milanov said in an interview: “You should never change the color od the voice or the phrasing, that should always be the same” and she was taught this way. She said Callas’ voice was like a rainbow. Callas’ had completely different schooling, much more influenced by belcanto style. Nevertheless, it depends on the conductor as well, when Milanov sang Requiem with Toscanini, her interpretation was very nuanced, which was unsual for her, that’s probably Toscanini’s influence. Callas worked with de Hidalgo and Serafin which was a great success for her, as well!
@@equinox6651 See, Milanov was full of BS! It does NOT have to do with schooling. Bel Canto or Verismo singers both sing a genre of music called: OPERA! And throughout the characters go through all types of human emotions and happy can not be sung the same way are scared and extremely sad. It most be sung accordantly. The colors of an opera are NOT in the notes. They are in the WORDS, the words baby! Milanov simply did not have a basic selection of a simple color palate. Both Verdi and Bellini are Bel Canto composers. Ain’t nothing verismo about Verdi, absolutely nothing - not even late Verdi. Milanov simply was not bless with vocal colors. Callas wasn’t a rainbow, she was SPRING and rainforest itself in terms of colors. For instance, both Lucia Lady MacBeth are criminals: it is very very well known that murderers and criminals have multiple personalities. They are ratchet and ghetto one time then few seconds later they become high class and sophisticated. How can you express the role itself just by singing notes with the same color? EXCUSES AND EXCUSES FOR LACK OF TALENT. We are not talking about it now. But I also would like to add why Milanov was far remote from being a dramatic soprano. The most obvious giveaway is that her middle voice could not EVER become or be metallic naturally. ALL REAL DRAMATIC SOPRANOS OF HISTORY HAVE VERY METALLIC MIDDLE VOICES AS WELL. All voices should be metallic on the top or high notes. Very few will be dramatic in the middle and that is what separates these dramatic sopranos from the rest! In this recording of Callas you hear an EXTREMELY METALLIC middle voice without EVER even pushing or much effort at all and this is typical dramatic soprano: m.ua-cam.com/video/dJvWI6L-o20/v-deo.html
@@beachfanatic2010 Of course, there are intrinsic differences that cannot be taught. You cannot expect Milanov or Nilsson to sing coloratura the way Callas or Tetrazzini did, that cannot be learnt! But schooling is imortant as well! Callas would never be La Divina, if there wasn’t for de Hidalgo. Then, Milanov is well known for her pianissimo that cannot be replicated by others. She said herself: “You have to be born with”. Of course many did beautiful piani, Callas also, but many who had seen Zinka in person say that her pianissimo was unbeliveable. Then her coloratura was sloppy, she wasn’t agile. She was obsessed with the tone beauty, words and emotional coloring wasn’t her cup of tea, nor was acting. She was “park and bark” singer. Just to be clear, I could never say Milanov was better then Callas. In my opinion, Callas was the greatest operatic artist in the history of opera (I doubt Malibran, Pasta, Falcon were any better). BUT Milanov was also great! She had illlustrisious career at the MET and was leading soprano for 3 decades! Public cannot be fooled. On top of all, her circumstances were very harsh, she didn’t have any “backround”. She was from a pretty unknown, obsolete country, troubled by wars. She managed to achieve great things with her own will and talent. P.s. There’s no need to post links to Callas singing. I’ve listened to all there is, years ago and many, many times after. I can recall and bring to my mind the ways she sang each phrase in most operas I’ve listened to. That’s why I still cannot understand why you keep “explaining” to me how great Callas was. It’s like you’re explaining behaviour of a child I’ve been living with for 18 years. You see, Callas despised bad taste in everything, even when it comes to adoration display by her fans, when it crosses the like of “good taste”, I don’t think she would be appreciative of that. She was extremely intelligent! I’m not saying you crossed the line, but you’re kind of “there”. I can understand though, I still find myself madly in love with her artistry.
@@equinox6651 Who is taking any credit away from Milanov? I am not doing that! I am stating that she had no vocal colors and this is not shade but the truth and I am stating she did not have a metallic middle voice which is the base of a real dramatic soprano. Or did she had a metallic middle voice? No she did not.
@@beachfanatic2010 No, she didn’t. But you’re still insisting she wasn’t dramatic soprano. Moreover, you’re stating she was lyric and presenting that as a fact, yet in literature and according to relevant and credible critics and many opera aficionados who witnessed her singing, she is seen as spinto/dramatic. So someone is obviously wrong, either it’s you or all those other people who had actually been “there”, who had listened to her and others for comparison. I’m more inclined to believe them.
Zinka MIlanov no solo fue la más grande soprano verdiana, también fue una gran turandot, en su buenas noches era una cantante de otra galaxia, en cuanto a norma las versiones grabadas no dan una semblanza de lo que realmente hacía, en la grabaciones en vivo por ejemplo canto una norma en el Teatro Colón de Buenos Aires que desde el punto de vista del canto fue maravillosa muy superior a cualquier otra cantante aquí mencionada, traten de escuchar alguna versión pirata que circulan en el mercado, en ellas podemos apreciar la inmensidad de su canto, trinos , filados sul fiato, un legato único, y sino la han escuchado entonces no opinen gratuitamente, de esta eximia cantante, y tengan la valentía de ubicarla en su tiempo para calibrar su estilo, canta en el estilo de su época de la misma forma cantaban dentro ese contexto las grandes cantantes coetaneas, lo genial de Milanov es su canto y el canto es música y en eso Milanov es insuperable, es verdad Callas fue una intérprete estupenda pero su canto deja mucho que desear y su variación en los colores de voz no es una virtud sino un defecto, escuchen Elisabeth Rethberg, Renata Tebaldi por decir algunos nombres y distintas épocas y verán que no tienen un arco iris de colores. y recuerden que la ópera es por sobre todo música, y si quieren ver grandes interpretaciones vayan al teatro de prosa
Several greats have succeeded as Norma. Zinka was one, Callas, Sutherland , Caballe, but none seem now in the wings waiting success in this great singing role! Sadly!
Sadly, you missed Christina Deutekom & especially, Elinor Ross.
@@cliffgaither And Ponselle.
Elinor Ross studied with Milanov
Much respect to your list. I am partial to Norma being sung by large weighty voices of great color. I saw neithet Ponselle or Cigna live. The remaining three were great singers of matchless quality. I have lipersformances of Ponselle live as Carmen, Violetta, and Donna Anna and each seem to testify to a voice of great size and power. The same can be siad of Cigna. Live I have her as Norma, Trovatore and Turandot. For me Milanov was greatest soprano I ever encountered bit I can understand a case for being made in your list of 5
Hi. you are a traditionalist ,as i am .
For me Norma ,above all ,is being... large!! To have opulence.
This channel is WAD ,a Zinka's channel ,& i totally agree.
So if we want that kind of voice for Norma ,the list could be also ..... a little bit different..
Vera Amerighi Rutili
Rosa Ponselle
Iva Pacetti... ( in her Met debut ,she insisted on adding....Me pelegrina ed orfana......that Ponselle used to..... avoid )
Zinka Milanov
Maria Pedrini( i adore her S.Carlo Norma)
Maria Vitale
Anita Cerquetti
Caterina Mancini
Angeles Gulin
Marcella de Osma
Nora Lopez
Eleanor Ross
Nancy Tatum
Elena Souliotis
Marisa Galvany
Ghena Dimitrova ......
.....ladies, if you don't have the right voice for Norma,Medea ,Gioconda,Isolde ,Brunhilde ,Elektra, should be better to avoid them.
Otherwise the results are ,something like ... Aliberti's , Devia's or Cioffi's .....(& certainly ,not everybody among the lighter voices ,can be like Deutekom)
@@alexanderzaphir721 Anita Cerquetti and Zinka Milanov attempting to sing Norma only gave pity and concern . Souliotis had big technical problems too (like Cerquetti and Milanov). Dimitrova's Norma was a disaster. Caterina Mancini, Angeles Gulin, Marcella De Osma rough and ordinary singers . Marisa Galvany a fake and a joke. Pythia Delphi please give up the opera, it's not for you
Photo: Zinka Milanov standing next to her portrait (by Milan Petrović) as Leonora in La Forza, New York 1945.
Maravilhosa.. Insuperável!
Marvelous She is beyond comparison
Le problème ne vient pas de sa voix , qui est très belle .
C'est son style qui est inadéquat dans le bel canto .C'est une façon de chanter complètement démodée , même à l'époque .Je ne sais pas si elle comprends ce qu'elle chante .Pour moi c'est un désastre stylistique .
Great one of my favorite sopranos, unique and powerful, but I would include Dame Joan Sutherland in the top! Salut
Dame Joan was to robotic for Norma. As much as I love her in the 60s. Take care Arnold
Norma was way too dramatic for Sutherland.
Sutherland simply didn’t have the chest tone development to make the appropriate gear change to give contrast between recitative and aria.
Even Bonynge said that Sutherland’s recitatives weren’t her strong point, and that Horne gave them more attention.
Bonynge and Sutherland insisted on singing being an extension of 'parlando' rather than 'declamato'.
'Sediziose Voce!...' shouldn't be spoken conversationally (parlando), it should be declaimed!
@@MrQwerty88
Sutherland’s was a half voice.
Bad diction too.
@@MrQwerty88I saw her last three performances in Detroit, 1989, and despite being I’ll did not disappoint in any respects. Many are called to the role and few answer. She had power, high notes and an interpretation that was human. SUTHERLAND WAS GREAT!!
Listen to Hernandez Norma. Then you Will add her to the LIST my friend.Take care, Arnold Bourbon Amaral
My problem with Milanov are several but she lacked the VAST PALATE of colors required for the role. All throughout the entire opera she gives you the same color except in her pianos. Alone Callas in the first note of her Casta Diva in 1949 in Torino: m.ua-cam.com/video/XX3HDSAQ4JA/v-deo.html. the first note is an open debate with endless possibilities of dissecting multiple colors, richness of sound, squillo yet ease and cream since the note is being hugged by two FAT COLUMNS of breath. Callas first in that Casta Diva has a small crescendo and discrecendo and at least 3 under and overtones of distinctively different colors that are cousins and match to each other to intensify the expression. And this is only the first note alone. Yet Milanov was unable to come with more than 2 colors throughout the entire opera. The lack of colors is so bad that even though or the vowels are there yet they do not sound different. Is like she is singing everything equal. No go back to Callas and listen for EXTREME and real distinction of vowels.
That is true and is a consequence of different schools of singing and work with different conductors. Milanov said in an interview: “You should never change the color od the voice or the phrasing, that should always be the same” and she was taught this way. She said Callas’ voice was like a rainbow. Callas’ had completely different schooling, much more influenced by belcanto style. Nevertheless, it depends on the conductor as well, when Milanov sang Requiem with Toscanini, her interpretation was very nuanced, which was unsual for her, that’s probably Toscanini’s influence. Callas worked with de Hidalgo and Serafin which was a great success for her, as well!
@@equinox6651 See, Milanov was full of BS! It does NOT have to do with schooling. Bel Canto or Verismo singers both sing a genre of music called: OPERA! And throughout the characters go through all types of human emotions and happy can not be sung the same way are scared and extremely sad. It most be sung accordantly. The colors of an opera are NOT in the notes. They are in the WORDS, the words baby! Milanov simply did not have a basic selection of a simple color palate. Both Verdi and Bellini are Bel Canto composers. Ain’t nothing verismo about Verdi, absolutely nothing - not even late Verdi. Milanov simply was not bless with vocal colors. Callas wasn’t a rainbow, she was SPRING and rainforest itself in terms of colors. For instance, both Lucia Lady MacBeth are criminals: it is very very well known that murderers and criminals have multiple personalities. They are ratchet and ghetto one time then few seconds later they become high class and sophisticated. How can you express the role itself just by singing notes with the same color? EXCUSES AND EXCUSES FOR LACK OF TALENT. We are not talking about it now. But I also would like to add why Milanov was far remote from being a dramatic soprano. The most obvious giveaway is that her middle voice could not EVER become or be metallic naturally. ALL REAL DRAMATIC SOPRANOS OF HISTORY HAVE VERY METALLIC MIDDLE VOICES AS WELL. All voices should be metallic on the top or high notes. Very few will be dramatic in the middle and that is what separates these dramatic sopranos from the rest! In this recording of Callas you hear an EXTREMELY METALLIC middle voice without EVER even pushing or much effort at all and this is typical dramatic soprano: m.ua-cam.com/video/dJvWI6L-o20/v-deo.html
@@beachfanatic2010
Of course, there are intrinsic differences that cannot be taught. You cannot expect Milanov or Nilsson to sing coloratura the way Callas or Tetrazzini did, that cannot be learnt! But schooling is imortant as well! Callas would never be La Divina, if there wasn’t for de Hidalgo. Then, Milanov is well known for her pianissimo that cannot be replicated by others. She said herself: “You have to be born with”. Of course many did beautiful piani, Callas also, but many who had seen Zinka in person say that her pianissimo was unbeliveable. Then her coloratura was sloppy, she wasn’t agile. She was obsessed with the tone beauty, words and emotional coloring wasn’t her cup of tea, nor was acting. She was “park and bark” singer.
Just to be clear, I could never say Milanov was better then Callas. In my opinion, Callas was the greatest operatic artist in the history of opera (I doubt Malibran, Pasta, Falcon were any better). BUT Milanov was also great! She had illlustrisious career at the MET and was leading soprano for 3 decades! Public cannot be fooled. On top of all, her circumstances were very harsh, she didn’t have any “backround”. She was from a pretty unknown, obsolete country, troubled by wars. She managed to achieve great things with her own will and talent.
P.s. There’s no need to post links to Callas singing. I’ve listened to all there is, years ago and many, many times after. I can recall and bring to my mind the ways she sang each phrase in most operas I’ve listened to. That’s why I still cannot understand why you keep “explaining” to me how great Callas was. It’s like you’re explaining behaviour of a child I’ve been living with for 18 years. You see, Callas despised bad taste in everything, even when it comes to adoration display by her fans, when it crosses the like of “good taste”, I don’t think she would be appreciative of that. She was extremely intelligent! I’m not saying you crossed the line, but you’re kind of “there”. I can understand though, I still find myself madly in love with her artistry.
@@equinox6651 Who is taking any credit away from Milanov? I am not doing that! I am stating that she had no vocal colors and this is not shade but the truth and I am stating she did not have a metallic middle voice which is the base of a real dramatic soprano. Or did she had a metallic middle voice? No she did not.
@@beachfanatic2010
No, she didn’t. But you’re still insisting she wasn’t dramatic soprano. Moreover, you’re stating she was lyric and presenting that as a fact, yet in literature and according to relevant and credible critics and many opera aficionados who witnessed her singing, she is seen as spinto/dramatic. So someone is obviously wrong, either it’s you or all those other people who had actually been “there”, who had listened to her and others for comparison. I’m more inclined to believe them.