Ranking SA’s Presidents: Mandela vs Mbeki vs Motlanthe vs Zuma vs Ramaphosa (tier list)
Вставка
- Опубліковано 16 лип 2024
- In today’s episode Dr Sizwe Mpofu-Walsh ranks the Presidents of South Africa. From Nelson Mandela, Thabo Mbeki, Kgalema Motlanthe, Jacob Zuma & Cyril Ramaphosa.
👥 Join the Conversation:
We’re more than just a show; we’re a community. Share your thoughts in the comments below and let’s engage in meaningful discussions. Your voice is part of the change.
👍 Like and Subscribe: If you find value in our content, please hit that like button and subscribe for more thought-provoking content. Your support helps us keep the conversation going.
📢 Don’t Miss an Episode:
Hit the bell icon to get notified about our latest uploads. Stay informed, stay engaged.
How to support SMWX:
📖 Purchase my book - "The New Apartheid": sizwempofuwalsh.com/product/t...
📚 Listen to my audiobook - adbl.co/3ucxr5h
🎵 Stream my music - li.sten.to/iT5TMeX
📻 Listen to the podcast - li.sten.to/7v4VTzl
📝 Become a UA-cam Member of this channel to get access to perks: / @_smwx
👕MERCH COMING SOON...
GET IN TOUCH:
✉️: info@smw-x.co.za
📞WhatsApp Line: 082 891 4935
Visit my website: sizwempofuwalsh.com
_______
00:00:00 - Introduction
00:01:15 - Ranking criteria
00:03:30 - Nelson Mandela
00:12:53 - Thabo Mbeki
00:24:24 - Kgalema Motlanthe
00:28:34 - Jacob Zuma
00:37:32 - Cyril Ramaphosa
_______
Credits:
Director: Bongani Nkosi
Producer: Oratile Kekana
Production Manager: Noluthando Mkhize
DOP and Editor: Bongani Nkosi
2nd camera operator and assistant editor: Lesego Kgobe
Photographer: Bongani Nkosi
Sound: Kgothatso Senne
Social Media Manager: Oratile Kekana
About me: Dr Sizwe Mpofu-Walsh is an author, scholar and founder of the Sizwe Mpofu-Walsh Xperience (SMWX), a digital, youth-centred current affairs platform. He holds a DPhil in International Relations from the University of Oxford and is a Lecturer in International Relations at Wits.
The Mbeki era was a time to be alive hey... Even as a kid I felt the overall vibe that we were having as a nation 💕
Dr. Sizwe my brother, I also request you make a UA-cam video on BEE. To make a stats of who were/are beneficiaries, number of jobs and they're creating /or created. What industries are they in. Are weather or continue to get funding from government fin institutions etc. This will help us a great deal to examine if the current BEE that perpetuate the tenderism culture structure is the way to go or not going forward for the economic future of SA. I thank you my leader.
also - what is the role of the current tender system which gives preference to cadres on south africa's infrastructure
Bee is just a policy...the problem it's the elite politicians, who took advantage to enrich themselves... giving us fake black business people with no content of vision..
The amount of time it would take to conduct this exercise is not worth it for just a UA-cam video. However, I understand why you want one and it would be interesting to hear what the research and numbers say.
Strangely, your followers, Sizwe, have been brainwashed not to question white monopoly capital. Encourage them to research Vanguard and Blackrock. Blacks always target blacks. Sizwe, I guarantee that you will never discuss Vanguard and Blackrock
I agree with you although he failed with majority in parliament to deal with the LAND land TO BE GIVEN BACK TO THE PEOPLE 0F THIS COUNTRY US BLACKS FROM THE WHITE MINORITY
"Rugby world cup and stuff" part killed me😂😂😂😂😂 Great analysis bro!
😂🤷🏽♂️
Mbeki and Mandela punched above their weight. They were Very good I agree with you Sizwe, great work
Thabo Mbeki,
1.Economic growth and stability: Under Mbeki's leadership, South Africa experienced significant economic growth and stability, with a focus on fiscal discipline and infrastructure development.
2.Diplomacy and international relations: Mbeki was known for his active role in African and global diplomacy, promoting peace and stability in the region and representing South Africa on the international stage.
3. Thabo Mbeki's presidency is his focus on education and skills development, which was aimed at addressing the inequalities inherited from apartheid and preparing the workforce for the demands of a modern economy.
But he destroyed the unity , hope , and potential of the "rainbow nation" . He chose a pan African black agenda , that alienated the minorities . I can only imagine what SA might have been .
Did you personally grow economically or you are talking about other people's wealth?
@@mvuyogoniwe9822 There was a greater proportion of black people being moved from the lower class, to the lower/middle & middle class. Because of his skills development programs, both my parents found decent jobs & in the year 2000 we moved from Alex, to a bond house in the neighbouring surburb. The surburbs around Alex (Kelvin, Lombardy, Bramley, Linbro Park, Malboro got populated by black people during this time). This was also exacerbated by the changes made in the FSCA (Then FSB), making it easier to take out homeloans.
Multiracial schools offered more exemptions, allowing kids to go to well-resourced schools.
The department of Arts & Culture was in full swing, funding artists. And black radios were gems.
Teachings around safe-sex, and domestic abuse was an all time high.
Social grants were first initiated.
The most RDPs were built.
There was a land-claims court.
Our currency was at its strongest.
You have no idea how useful and educational these topics are. Thank you
i like the coining of the term "AYEYE" in ranking .
In Zuma era load shedding came righy
Thabo Mbeki👑 The seat belonging to the President of South Africa has been vacant since the 24th of September, 2008.
This is why African presidents hang on to power for more than 20 years because of people like you
Mbeki destroyed Mandela's rainbow nation . Pan Africanism doesn't work in SA .
Sizwe, SA was flourishing under Mbeki. Even the single Mandela term was being managed by Mbeki in the background. Thereafter, tragedy befell South Africa.
Tragedy in deed 😞
Thanks for all the great comments. These are the conversations we need to have as South Africans and people who love SA. Keep your own rankings coming! 😁
Dokotela on the Mbeki Era I think you missed the start of load shedding?
Indeed! Thank you for making my day. I have a new perspective now altogether.
🙏🏽🙏🏽is this kind of platforms that makes us as youth to be involved and interested in how our country is being ran
As historian am totally disapointed in you Dr Mpofu. You are wiping our history like EFF. You should have included FW Deklerk if you were talking about South African presidents. If your aim was to talk about the new era you should have said that. Thats why young ones think June 16 is a birthday of Sarafina cause our entrusted political commentators usually choose sides Not telling the mere truth .Also this thing of saying FW Dekerk was killing black people recently came with Malema . All along he has been part of RSA politcs. I just hate it if people wiping the history.
@@SonOfTheSoil834 Yes
The chaos began when they removed Mbeki
Nah chaos started with Mbeki releases Zuma from from being his deputy
No, it began when Mbeki removed Zuma. That was the end of the ANC.
Mbeki destroyed the rainbow nation . He chose a pan African black agenda . Alienating good , capable , loyal SAns from the minority population .
Thabo Mbeki was awesome 🔥
Motlanthe deserved a longer time in office. He held the country steady, there were no allegations of corruption around him, he was thoughtful and intelligent, ethical, and he brought stability. I would have loved to see what a longer term would have brought. Unfortunately he was seen as a seat warmer for Zuma, but he could have been so much more potentially.
I liked him a lot but I feel he was toothless in a sense and knew he was a placeholder for Zuma, so didn't try to rock the boat at all which makes me believe that he would be similar to Ramaphosa in being soft on his cadres.
What did he produce??in that 8 months.Zero
Even if all were given 1000 years, there's is nothing you could do with a country that was in debt from sanctions and 70% of uneducated population, 30% electricity penetration, and now a democratic country that owned no primary means of production, just shell SOEs, ESKOM owns no coal, ANC self preservation ..and a democratic system that only favours leaders with money, leader looking to impress the funders and not the country.., ...kuningi we mlungu
(1) Zuma , (2) Mbeki (3) Mandela (4) Montlante (5) Ramaphoza
@rugratmark He disbanded the Scorpions, and it was downhill from there.
UMsholozi made the presidency more relatable to the avarage person in SA
Maybe to Zulus only, not to the rest of the country.
@@KazieD tribalism will kill y'all...y'all still denying the statistics and facts jst bcos y'all don't like the Zulus 😢
If your answer is right, then it means those who could not relate to him did so because they are tribalists. Remember JZ has never said he is looking for Zulu supporters but he has been seeking support from all South Africans,, if they did not respond then it is not JZ's problem but those who refused on the basis that they will not support somoene who is a Zulu or not of their ethnic group. He tried to reach out to other ethnic groups in Limpopo but was not welcomed - now who do blame? Who is a tribalist? Why blaming him? Anyway, other people in Limpopo who are not tribalist did arrive at the venue to interact with him.
@@Tsebomjiks9789 he needs to rest he is Old and frail to even go to jail remember? He has failed and needs to accept that. This country became devided the minute Zuma was president and the country was never the same after that. Zuma and his team ousted Mbeki and Zizi stepped down and never fought his way back in.
@@KazieD Yep he is old and also does not qualify to be the president anymore, I really appreciate that he is in a way redeeming himself to some of the mistakes he committed. So, he must slow down and give the young ones like Mogoeng that opportunity. Look without his participation there is no way that MK would have grown this fast, that is where he is needed and once that is achieved he will give the MK to Mogoeng as it is speculated.
Aiii Sizwe you cracked me up today 😂😂😂. Brutally honest. Well done Sir 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Mbeki's presidency was chefs kiss imo, he's actually the reason I chose to study economics. If he had gotten the HIV/Aids thing right, we would have continued on a good trajectory but it was a big fail unfortunately- I don't think he had bad intentions at all though... more misunderstood imo.
Substantiate your feelings about him besides being inspired to study economics.
@@sandilemnguni9112Watch the video
@sandilemnguni9112 He had a plan and I had confidence in his plan, where he failed to address things initially, wrt Aids + Eskom, when he realised that he was wrong, actually later put in plans to correct (govt spend on arv's increased and medupi + kusile plans were made under his tenture)... and that spoke to his leadership. Also him being known to personally hold cadres responsible for their portfolio's. Outside of ideas and ideals, he would make plans and execute, I haven't seen another SA Pres who has done both to the same level... fyi, your tone is not welcomed
@@indiran3975Also Kusile and Medupi were started in his tenure and supposed to be finished in 7 years. Mid Ramaphosa's tenure they are not complete and functioning at full capacity. Why were they not finished in the Zuma years? What's taking so long?
@MfezekoMatshoba yes!!! this is very frustrating, 3 presidents since Mbeki and nobody seems to have a solid plan, just pie in the sky and shifting goal posts... If only that had been completed during that tenure, maybe we would have been better off but cadres were impatient and ready to loot the promised land 😒
Mbeki was the real makoya. I especially loved his intellectualism (I feel safe and secure having an undoubtedly smart president with a plan) and his transformation agenda (which faced the toughest resistance, but that didn't throw him off the urgency and importance he placed on transformation).
Thanks for the great content, Sizwe! Top tier stuff!
⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
and complicit in how many hundred thousands of deaths through his aids denial ism - broaden your information pool mate.
Absolutely 🤘🏽
Intelligence is all about processed data...all of us , we have intelligence called knowledge...But knowledge is useless when not applied or simplified...Mr MBEKI's ALGOA, was useless...and so was RDP, what was supposed to be an economic plan, we ended up with a 4- roomed- house...You need to ask his brother, Moeletsi about Mr Mbeki's tenure...I rest my case
@@senzomemela1311 intelligence is knowledge?🙉I give up
@@SonOfTheSoil834 yes, it's just ability to process data, processed data is called info , and processes info is called knowledge... intelligence comes from a word Intel...But wisdom is special.. .Wisdom has insight and foresight..go and educate yourself please Son..don't give up
Your ranking was good and fair👏🏾but mine would look like this:
1. Mbeki (Ayeye with a bit of Very Good) my reasons are that the Economy was growing and we had a Vision aimed at uplifting Africa from the current state through the African Renaissance concept. That concept was supposed to unifier of African people in the rebuilding of the continent.
2. Mandela (Very Good with a bit of Ayeye) we must remember that he was the first president of a democratic state which was accompanied with a lot compromise in order to unify a very divided nation. Mbeki also gets the credit here because it has been mention that he was the brains behind Mandela.
3. I'll skip Montlante and go straight to Zuma and Ramaphosa both for me they belong to Failed w/o sub because a lot of what is wrong with this country today emanates from the Zuma presidency and Ramaphosa was part of that presidency. These 2 presidents failed to take advantage of the economic foundations that were put by their predecessors. Instead they were self serving as shown by the Zondo commission.
Sizwe, I also want remind you of what Dr Mtimka said about lack of meritocracy in the Zuma era. You can imagine what this has done to the country since 2009.
I totally disagree
What I know about the Ramaphosa presidency is that, it is destabilized by the ANC from within. The people that were fighting for Zuma to be President, continued to fight for him when he was President even though through the years we have a new breed of fighters but, all in all, people that were on Zuma's side stood with him even through Ramaphosa's Presidency. We had characters like Ace "matter of 5 years" Magashule & others in the RET group within the ANC NEC, now there's MK, the fight is still on. For the first time an ANC SG is expelled, Parliament speaker is facing corruption charges has resigned & in court. NIU, SIU, State Capture still followed but with major fightback. Stabilizing SARS, NPA, ANC.
Not Sizwe opening the CR era with saying CR does not use the State to fight his battles, Ace would argue differently, Mkhwebane paid the prize, the CR17 statements are sealed, the Reserve Bank and Gqaleka are working around Phala Phala. To contrast, Zuma didn't fire Thuli.
Maybe we should not be harsh on Cupcake but kubi pha kwi term yakhe.
Nice episode overall.
Dr Mpofu had to say something posetive and he had to say that even though there's nothing
😂😂😂😂
It is because Dr Sizwe was focusing on Using and not Abusing the state. Those you mentioned are not uses but abuses.😂
I agree that Thabo Mbeki remains the best President South Africa ever had!!!
Crazy how I was searching this on Wikipedia in Dec, you just brought a more conversation element to it. Thanks Doc. Enjoyed it.
My comments:
1. It's great that you highlighted the legislative achievements of Mandela. Talk about the the right person at the right time! Almost "Ayeye"
2. AIDS was more of an epidemic than a pandemic - hence Mbeki is discredited.
3. Growth is one side of the equation. The other is indebtedness, which had been improved under Mbeki, but shot up sharply under Zuma.
4. A lot of the capital intensive achievements of Zuma were based on debt (i.e. borrowing from future generations). Eskom is a prime example.
5. Ramaphoria... Enough said
Great points.
THABO MBEKI will always be the best president SA has ever had. Taking over from Madiba, the man that never did so much because his presidency benefited more from his social influence, the country and its economy attracted so many investors in all walks of life. The question was, who can sustain the peak of the economy that Madiba left for the country at the time and there wasn’t any other name than the Master of the Economics. Ahhh Zizi 🙌🏾🙌🏾🙌🏾
You don't need a President to sustain the economy, you need a sound economic plan, From RDP to ALGOA a figment of his imagination that he couldn't simplify..what cannot be simplified can not be applied...just useless...
(1) Zuma , (2) Mbeki (3) Mandela (4) Montlante (5) Ramaphoza
Mbeki is undoubtedly best than any. He may be arrogant at times. Yet Mbeki is still the best
Guys what did Mr Mbeki do?? Somebody must explain it to me...
This guy (Bra Tbos Mbeki) had a long term plan for South Africa to own it's minerals and land... Never easy though, however patients is what we never had... More internal vows within the Organisation he was leading because of his style of leadership and corrupt gangs were sick and tired of Mbeki... We will never have a South Africa like Mbeki's South Africa again.... It's gone long gone....
Brilliant discussion point. Incredible unpacking of historical facts on all leaders. Well done Dr Sizwe and Team.
Thabo Mbeki is my fav - history has come to judge him well. His legacy has aged like South African wine!
He is the reason we have a lot of problems today. He was too stubborn and thought he was the only one right.
Absolutely 💯
@@bubelerasmeni1846my lil criticism for him was when the got the numbers to amends our constitution ,he didn’t !and now Ramadollar is using those weaknesses and loopholes in that stupid constitution to cripple our country
TM was the best. SA was prosperous during his tenure. Even voters agreed with him, he was the only president to get 2/3 majority.
@@user-qm6sp2qz2hhe inherited a performing country from Mr Mandela...the question is what did he do with that 2/3 majority, economic growth of 8% did nothing.. stopped the nuclear pebble bed program..what legacy are we talking about...??
Love these deep dives.
Pres Mbeki will always remain the best we ever had.
Great Analysis👍🏾 I feel like this needed more time.
Uxuxuucicoiduududududududududuuu*uuuuydydyydyudyy*yfyyfufyye71112ww11122111uyaUU#USUSUSUDUUDUSUDUUUI77😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊❤❤😮😅😅😅😅😅
What a brilliant analysis, scientific and balanced. deserves a greater circulation
Mandela: Well, I agree that it's quite difficult to analyze his Presidency being confined to only his Government tenure, without visiting His historical account, fighting apartheid and being incarcerated for so many years. The question as we theme his Presidency around peace or fence-mending tenure, what did we achieve from a socioeconomic perspective? How do we continue to glorify peace without a great shift in means of production ownership, land redistribution, Adv. Ngcukaitobi, explained that the restitution clause was quite knotty.
Mbeki: Quite a smart President and was one that inspired hope and His stance on a debt-free state was one trajectory that made sense. He tried to establish a very good cabinet and the integration within his departments was great. This is the presidency where we heard less complaints on SoEs compared to Zuma and Cyril. The Aids issue really defeated him. I would give Mbeki an Ayeye for his Deputy Presidency because he was hands on and is one DP that did well. Mbeki's points drop because he had 2/3 and they did not deal the land issue and wasted all the opportunity to make our constitution pragmatic on justice and equality.
Motlante: He wasn't going to do much, because he wasn't a Party President, so that means he didn't have enough prerogatives from a political front. He was used by the ANC (unclever opinion lol!)
Zuma: Rape allegations, corruption charges and Dr. Adv Ngcuka explains that it wasn't easy to arrest and charge an incoming President, which means that the there was still reasonable doubt on his allegations of corruption. This guy had the worst cabinet and frequent reshuffles (weekend special Min. of Finance), he was faced with insurmountable opposition in Parliament (Mmusi, Lekoto, Julius and some good ministers resigned at his reign), FMF occurred in his tenure, he just had bad luck man. He built a University, Infrastructure such as roads, and promised us loadshedding and free education for the poor.
Cyril: His supporters will call you out that his term hasn't ended and that he'll be re-elected but I say kudos for doing this EP now because chances are if he's re-elected, it will be on coalition basis and that will definitely make his Presidency shaky. I guarantee you that if he doesn't get more that 50%, he will resign if Parliament votes for him. This is one guy that can be controlled by ANC NEC and doesn't seem to gauge whether or not their advice is pertinent. He has literally inherited more than half of Zuma's bad cabinet, how was he expecting to succeed. He deserves the same opprobrium Zuma was painted with because corruption, maladministration, and many more still find expression under his leadership.
Overarching view: I forgive Nelly M for his shortcomings hence I won't rate, I agree with you on Mbeki, Motlante, I cannot rate, Zuma: I fully agree, Cyril: Failed without sup and should face with evictions.
Yea, so far we've had two good presidents, a non-existent one and two failed president with ramaphosa being the worst of all of them.
Well one would argue that during Mandela's tenure Mbeki was the president and Mandela was just the face
I say the same. Mbeki said himself that he was running government during Mandela's tenure.
UBaba Mandela stated that they inherited a government with no money in treasury, as all the primary means of production had been transferred to private hands...this took place with an economist , Mr Mbeki, in the room... We ended up with an economic policy that know as a house not an economic plan, RDP... ESKOM that doesn't own any coal mine... should I go on...?
Again interesting , Thanks . A follow up episode based on objective factors may be worthwhile where a score from 1-10 is allocated for each criteria . Criteria could be a) Integrity [ number of exposures of dodgy issues ] , b) Competence [ number of things they said would be done , that were actually done on time ] , c) rand exchange rate at the beginning and end of their term d) FDI at the beginning and end of their term e) Number of functional schools at the beginning and end of their term f) number of graduates who left the country during their term g) Number of functional clinics and hospitals at start and end of their term h) Number of varsity graduates completing during their term split into humanities and sciences ( STEM ) , i) number of unemployed at start and end of their term j) number of failed audits in municipalities at beginning and end of their term k) crime stats numbers over their term l) number of people incarcerated during their term m) number of crime against the state persons jailed during their term without parole . n) level of infrastructure decline during their term . o) number of artisans trained and gaining employment during their term p) profitability of SOE's at the end of each year of their term q) amount each year of their term that had to be provided to support SOE's - IN my view we are voting for parties and leaders whose prime function is to spend our money wisely and effectively for the safety and improvement of the lives of all citizens , and I really don't care if I like them or not . So add up the scores and lets see the marks 😁
love the concise review, Mbeki was the best president to ever grace the bench. we were once THAT nation.
To me, Thabo Mbeki was the best president because during his time, the economy of the country was very much stabilised. He did everything to avoid corruption but his ANC comrades saw that as a challenge because they could not do what they do best. The Mandela error was more of a transition period so I guess he did well under those circumstances. Motlhanthe becomes my second best looking at the fact that he was only in office for a short time. Truth is that he simply continued with what was planned by Mbeki's office. I do not want to talk about Zuma and Ramaposa because corruption grew infront of their eyes and they both promised but never delivered to stop it. A case in example: what happened with the Zondo commission report? why the recommendations are never implemented ? Thabo Mbeki was our main man.
The ground was fertile during his tenure across the globe 🌎 and that makes it hard to conclude whether he was good or bad. We can only judge him better if he is the president now.
Cyril Ramaphosa is the president of the ANC, not South Africa. Do not expect Ramaphosa to fix corruption. it's been reported that he knows who is responsible for corruption but won't do anything about it because it will make the ANC look bad.
Ayeye looks like : Free education, quality health care, high average income per household across the board, lifestyle audits and performance reports from a smaller cabinet and also smaller parliamentary membership in general. Growth of industry (blue collar and white collar) growth of innovation (tech and finance space) - generally, a booming economy. zero corruption, efficient policing, an uncaptured judiciary. state owned bank - financing entrepreneurship and re-invigorating state owned entities.
ranking :
Mandela - average (faced apartheid debt vs large black poor population, but no real black empowerment),
Mbeki - Good (elitist, BEE created black elites, grew the white-collar space but neglected blue collar, focused on monetary/market growth gains - privatization - and less on state driven investment),
Motlante - average (not enough time),
Zuma - good (had mis-haps but broadly black lives were the most improved. More people did business with the gov, (real BEE), health, education was improved. Massive infrastructure development (blue collar) massive investments in internships, bursaries, and civil servants (focus on professional developments, more black graduates who got employment - i'm one of them) got a big head, missed his blind spots. allies used him to advance their interests (guptas) so in essence turned a good working model into a corrupt beneficiation. overall most PRO-Black president we've had.
Ramaphosa- dismal failure. (reemergence of white supremacy, racism, and imperialism. wishy-washy. no implementation, no economic growth programmes, policing, health, and education utter failures. has no backbone and disastrous leadership. Zero charisma. empty vessel.
@Bathandwa your comment was quite long..but I could not stop myself but to read it with interest. Your analysis shows a lot of maturity and wisdom, and yet you appear to be young...I would love for Dr Sizwe to host bright minds like you, from this commentary section...I want to see something... Continue to improve yourself by acquiring your true self identity and self love... Identity gives you the ability to validate yourself, to love yourself and to love others...Khula Ndodakazi!
Yes!!!! This feels more accurate
I fully concur with your analysis and ranking.
Just for this information you already taught us a lot about gorvenment..I thank you for giving us such a brilliant comment❤❤❤
best analysis
Continue to 'spread the fire' your platform gives us fresh perspective, values for moving forward and also to be aware about what is happening in the upper-echelon of the state.
This was fun 😂😅
Your rankings were spot on. Ramaphosa could have been an Eish, right there with Zuma. Montlante should have been Average as we don't remember much of his presidency but Mandela and Mbeki were spot on.
Great one Siz, Thank you!
The guy just hates, Ramaphosa.
@@AndileTheGreatWhat has Ramaphosa achieved so far? Please enlighten us.
This is really weird to beat even doctors. That as long as you have a family member as a witch ,you never come Allright. I don't think it's fair to compare Ramaphosa to the other presidents.Im speaking as a neutral person here. Mandela ;Mbeki and Montlhathe had no competition with their presidency to my knowledge. For that matter Ramaphosa did many atimes. Each time they failed they sabotaged his work so there is a sabotage from within and opposition parties as well eg 2021 riots which includes burning of factories etc .One opposition party publicly announced making the country ungovernable in order to take over.How do you like that?
@@AndileTheGreatif he doesn't, what is there to love about president Ramaphosa?
Good analysis. Mbeki era was good, if we just knew what we had at the time, ai.
5. Ramaphosa 4. Zuma 3. Montlante 2. Mandela 1. Mbeki
4. Ramaphosa 4. Zuma... they both not reaching 5
Mbeki has 300,000 dead people in his hands. I would say he has the worst record only usurped by Ramaphosa @@mikexc.martin7645
Both of you are smoking socks
(1) Zuma , (2) Mbeki (3) Mandela (4) Montlante (5) Ramaphoza
This is so helpful Sizwe.. you are really keeping us informed especially now that we are facing crucial elections!!!🎉
Insightfull analysis and observations. Thank you very much
It would be a great mistake to forget the transformation towards free education particularly in the higher Education sector following the #FeesMustFall movement during Zuma's Presidency. Give the man his flowers.
Literally didn't do anything, but delay studies for students
No education is free btw. To pay for the education of the youth, the working class pay taxes to support them. Do you really trust the government with our money 😂
True. But it honestly came so late. Right at the cusp of his exist as president.
What a wonderful analysis?
Great comments and analysis. On point as always.
Mbeki is simply Ayeye bro.
Pandemics cannot just be solved over night. He is human he was just unlucky with that issue but he made sure that the country was safe, habitable and growing
Great analysis, fair and straight to the point. My ranking Mandela - V. Good; Mbeki - V. Good; Motlanthe - Below Average ( I never forgive him for killing Scorpions); Zuma - Below Eish! ( I will never forgive him for allowing ordinary citizens from a foreign country to land at our Airforce Base. Now that was the pinnacle of disrespect) ; Cyril - Did not qualify to write the examination ( indecisive, inept, uninterested, lethargic, wanting etc)
Thabo not only grew the economy, but also SA was highly respected politically. We launched the AU,led IBSA and the African Renaissance
Mbeki was the best and will remain the best we have ever had. Very few people were groomed for that role since their youth the way he was.
What makes you say mbeki was the best ?
If I could help, Ramaphosa should step down, surprising that the ANC needs him
In Terms of ranking Thabo Mbeki is the choice of many South Africans, though he is not in good books in the ANC
@@sboneloloren8605 he was easily the smartest, economic growth under him was by every measure lightyears ahead of the rest, he placed SA in the center of global politics with G7, BRICS and AU, only president to get two thirds majority. His record as “prime minister” under Mandela was equally impressive. Was he perfect? No. But if you compare the numbers against all the others, it’s not even close.
@@mashuduthidiela9643his 2/3 was given to him by Mr Zuma by the way..who snatched KZN from IFP...with all the resources he had , Mr Mbeki produced nothing...as for smartness, ..my cat is also smart...we don't need a smart president, we need a.wise president, ..who understand people not just system...most people like you , confuses a President for an administrator...
Great Podcast! 🎉 Acceptable points & observations that you have made! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 If only you could interview all of the Presidents, including Ramaphosa & hold no punches! We need them to answer some critical Qs about their continuous failures!
Sizwe, thank you for this. This is a wonderful and intelligible contribution. While there is so much one can say to your analysis (which is personal) even though factual - I am not sure if we can fully consider any of these presidents as 'ayeye' or having an 'ayeye' moment without taking seriously the legacies of south africa as a 'nation-state'. My concern here is largely influenced by your own work which forces us to think about the present South African through a historical analysis of its social structure. Such a social structure in your own work is that of racial capitalism: hence the 'New apartheid" (Mpofu-Walsh)- it's a continuation of the founding values of SA as first and foremost a settler colony. It seems to me, that we ought to read these presidents against the possibility or strive to shake off the legacies of settler colonialism. In doing this, we must acknowledge that there is no 'decolonization' of the settler colony - there is only a transformation of such a society in its 'post' outlook. Thus, we must then ask the question; How have these presidents contributed to the 'transformation' of SA into a country for all? If that is the question; then Mandela definitely had an "ayeye' moment since he is the founding father of the vision of SA that acknowledged its settler colonial roots but believed in building it for all. So, that in my mind is 'ayeye' - we all had the vision to look forward to a united South Africa.
Mbeki's economic functionary leadership is the beginning of the problem. Mbeki promised a renewal of Africans and their social values but focussed his economic decisions on giving South Africa an image based on a neo-colonial outlook with a white economy ever expanding while the historically underprivileged remained under the state social welfare net. The jobs that you claim were created during his administration had very few pressures emanating from, for instance, minimum wage, his drive for maintaining market market-oriented economy allowed for the rise of inequalities within 'racial' groups with skyrocketing salary bills for the state driven by uncontrollable increases in the private sector. The jobs created were far from being 'decent' - hence later the ANC with COSATU pushed for 'decent work' where sustainable work and jobs alongside the UN NDG goals were a priority.
In short, Mbeki's administration maintained the normal, neo-liberal and neo-colonial politics that focussed on 'development' and more development that actually served the interests of the well-developed white economy. I know for instance that his 'African Renaissance" ideology enriched the white settler SA business to penetrate the African market under the guise of being "South African' companies. But the returns on these investments remained individualized, accruing to the investors, not the people where such investors come from.
I won't say much about Motlanthe. He was a good face.
Zuma is the administration that I think we need to seriously study for a couple of reasons. First, it is undeniable Sizwe that, although Mbeki's ideology of "African Renaissance" threatened the anxieties of certain white South Africans, Zuma's 'nature' SCARED white business and of course; white South Africa. I remember his first visit to the UK when he became president - the coverage of Zuma in the UK at the time was simply anti-Zuma. From his private life to the corruption case, and of course; "lack of 'education'" threatened the white power structure or the settler colony that had been sustained by both Mandela and Mbeki.
You have already mentioned some of Zuma's achievements and his flaws. I also think though we need to think about his administration against the settler colonial backdrop that he inherited and unlike his former predecessor showed willingness to point out and destroy. Think about this: Zuma is the first SA president to point out the early Marxist discourse of the 70s that South Africa is a racial capitalist state: or what became called "White monopoly Capital". Zuma's focus on race, distribution of wealth, insistence on history and the disfavour he received in SA (and British) media makes me think his presidency had an "ayeye" moment. In some way, Zuma threatened the white power structure. The 'figure' of the Guptas, in all 'its' prefiguration in our minds of who and what they represent(ed) - we need to also think about what they did to shaking the white power structure. From the mining sector, parastatals, communications etc - the Guptas (arguably with Zuma 'in charge' as the state capture report suggests) - his endeavour carried a significant revolutionary move that we still need to study carefully. Yes, when we study Zuma, we must of course take seriously the ways in which comrades and family around him saw his political move to shake settler colonial power structure as opportunities for their nefarious individualistic motives (including the very Guptas and Zuma).
As such, I think we need to situate the performances of these presidents within a social structure of South Africa. Our tendency though is to focus on Zuma as an uneducated, 'corruption' or wealth and comfort driven character - which we should, but if we do, we might as well focus on the corruption of the last two before him.
For instance, we learn in Pieter du Toit's book "ANC Billionaires" how Mbeki, after their return from exile was treated by the white SA business. The same is true for Mandela. From staying in mansions owned by the white SA billionaires to the financial support given to the ANC cadres etc to the business deals that benefitted many of the popular ANC leaders - it is clear that all the presidents before Zuma have some corruption scandals hidden somewhere. We can go on and on. But, because, I argue, some of the previous powerful ANC presidents did not threaten racial capitalism - they are still darlings of the post-apartheid transformation project. We see this with Ramaphosa. In fact, when you got to him in the presentation - I know you would have very little to say: he has been a disaster of them all - but also useful in the analysis that I ask we consider: that of taking the social structure of SA as a settler colony serious. If we do, Mr Ramaphosa has been a useful figure and frankly; good for the powerful economic class that controls life and economy in post-colonial/apartheid South Africa.
Hence, I think it is helpful to delve into how these presidents either reshaped or threatened the social structure of SA. In other words, how do we think about the "New apartheid" through the lens of these presidents - it seems to me when we get to Zuma, there will be a need for some serious, not prejudicial reasoning by honest and reflexive reason. In this regard, I kindly ask you to please have a chat with Moeletsi Mbeki's analysis of the present South Africa - which in many ways is similar to your recent book observations. But the problem with you is that, you go in and out of the history-present connection - and sometimes, you leave the history and make us imagine the possibility of imagining a different South Africa without a real appreciation of the history. For Moeletsi - South Africa needs to be 'undone' for us to even imagine an analysis of the "ranking" of performance of SA presidents/presidency.
So, for me, the 'Ayeye' moment in SA ought to begin with the structural issues - which Dr Mpofu-Walsh discusses in his bookS. Thus, the legacies are not just apartheid Sizwe, they date back to the British colonial period which provided the structure of the SA economic system. Thus, before we focus on economic performance which is a universal marker of performance of a country’s presidency, I think in postcolonial contexts, such a yardstick must centre the legacies of the history of such a society and how such legacies act to keep the status quo.
Sizwe, Love you man and love what you do. Thanks for provoking me to reflect on these topics.
i think we may be especially harsh on Ramaphosa, but a lot of it has to do with the decline in competence of the people around him - and finding very few ANC leaders actually interested in serving the nation. In the Mandela, Mbeki era there were still stalwarts who cared. Now you'd be hard pressed to find that
Are you forgetting that the president chooses the cabinet, so when it fails it's a reflection on him.. Ramaphosa is the worst president we've ever had
Ramaphosa guys his presidency was divided remember there is a group of cadres from exile who doesn't take him seriously.
Also he took over from a shaky economy from previous leader while still trying to fix covid 19 attacked. Companies affected people lost their jobs.
We also lacked good leadership Madida and Zizi had a very powerful cabinet don't forget that.
Poor Ramaphosa lack support from his divided cabinet.
@@Nkabi_ZA yes thats true, but if you look at how close his elections at NASREC have been, he definitely has to keep a lot of political opponents close. "keep your friends close & your enemies closer"
He still made it .. while this so called triballist ex is on his way .
I see all presidents but Ramaphosa is the worst president since the dawn of democracy
beautiful content Doc Sizwe
So informative!
The Cyril bit finished me!😂
Fair analysis overall. Its so funny that we thought Zuma set the bar in hell, and somehow Ramaphosa managed to go lower. Super disheartening.
How exactly?
@@Cherry-pu4mx Zero quantifiable change in 6 years.
@@tshepangphawe8350 We had covid and corruption passed on by the zuma administration. I think it was moodley tht gave us the junk status because of zuma. If anything, I'm honestly surprised the economy didn't tank further and when covid ended we had more growth than any year under zuma
The highest growth rate zuma could muster was 3.2% vs rhamposa 4.9%.
He picked a terrible cabinet though...
Guy is business oriented and during covid all his cabinet tried to do was destroy business, banning cigarettes and Alcohol trading and putting unfair restrictions on businesses tht destroyed small local businesses.
Can you do a Ranking of the current leaders of each party? They will be our potential future presidents(Hypothetically), and compare them to the current ANC and their policies.
I can tell you, Malema will be his number 1. This one is his father's son.
Your ranking is perfect Sizwe.
Great analysis as always, very insightful
For me, I would give the highest rating possible to Baba Madiba. I think the man navigated what was a very delicate situation very well, without his wisdom and A - class leadership the nation would have plunged into a civil war. The second place goes to Thabo. Cyril had the opportunity to enter the hall of fame but he took over an ANC that had essentially become a criminal organisation beyond redemption. (Disclaimer: I am neither a South African nor have lived their continously for a very long time. But I have taken keen interest in its economic and political history for decades. My views are based on secondary sources)
Thanks for the disclaimer because I was going to challenge you on many other things
Thank you for your disclaimer, this will help me to deal with you with kindness...Mr Mandela was there to stabilize the country by giving us political power , instead he gave us political compromise, many Black South Africans forgave their oppressors but till today they can't forgive themselves for reaching a one sided compromise....and those who came after him , were supposed to concentrate on giving economic power to the people, but they failed. Instead they focused on enriching themselves..houses in Houghton...allowing those with money to have both political and economic power...Now they have no political power, yes they have money but lost self confidence and identity... without identity, they don't know who they are...they do not love themselves, hence they lack the ability to love their people or their country...I feel sorry for them...
Very true
1. Cyril Ramaphosa is the president of the ANC, not South Africa. He did inherit a shit show, but Its been reported multiple times that he knows who is responsible for corruption but won't fire them, refuses to conduct performance audits because it will make the ANC look bad. He is a trophy wife, he is there to look good and say the right things. He is a lying, spineless disappointment.
Sizwe laughing at the question is the answer 39:25
39:19 is hilarious!! You tried scrapping the barrel for the poor oak !! Spot on analysis doc - not an exhaustive or granular evaluation but more than adequate.
Mbeki still owe me his leadership. I still believe in his Leadership skills.
Zuma started the rot and mess here!!
The South African humuor is shining through here 😂😂😂😂 i cant stop laughing. We always ready to laugh even in adversity
Thabo Mbeki was indeed better than all of them ,I remember the rand being R6 to UDS in 2009,I laughed when you got to Ramaphosa dude I can not think of anything good under his presidency ,I think perhaps he inherited a failed state and it's difficult for him to turn things around ,the ANC shot themselves in the leg by removing President Mbeki and continously failing to appoint proper leaders to govern.
Objective insight sir💯👌🏾
In his book 'A rumour of Spring' Max Du Preez does talk a little about the sudden change to GEAR, citing influences of IMF and the fact that a powerful ally of ours the Soviet Union that ANC relied on was no more (Chapter 6)
I think in terms of wins I'd give to Rams are the deployments of SANDF in Mozambique and DRC (D.A currently has issues with the recent deployment in DRC, saying Parliament wasn't notified and we can't afford it) and maybe taking Israel to ICJ, also heard we are now suing USA and UK?idk how true that is.
But I'm just being generous, Rams failed in every aspect🤣also, i think it'd be interesting to look at the number of Whistleblowers killed for speaking out against corruption in both the terms of Jacob and Rams to really see who suppressed the people, no?👀
Just a little add on, i personally don't rate Mbeki for failing to deal with HIV/AIDS. People died, and no amount of economic growth will make me overlook the lives of people. You only live once, a human life is very precious and that must not be taken lightly.
(1) Zuma , (2) Mbeki (3) Mandela (4) Montlante (5) Ramaphoza
What is this, I fail to get the whole passage?
What are the HIV death stats during Zuma s era?
Mbeki was the best we ever had. Zuma and Ramaphosa both rank very low fail without sub
Siyabulela dokotela. Very informative, educational and nice to the ear. Ungatyafi mfo kaDali!
This is very informative thanks so much spread the message
Thabo Mbeki - Zizi jama Ka Sjadu! our fav, intelligent President. That man had a vision for this country and i believe we could've been way ahead in terms of african development, but unfortunately todays politics have no regard for visions and ideals, its all about the stomach and enriching themselves and their friends and gladly watch the country fall apart.
To me Madida remember political transition he did exceptionally well from apartheid to democracy. Making sure there's stability in the country.
Once there's stability in the country that attracts investment.
Economically we were strong. His character is undescribable we felt we had a father figure in him.
He commanded respect his intelligence was on another level. He could see something b4 it happened very good in analysing b4 he opens his mouth.
His interview would leave journalist paralyzed like he did with n American journalist who tried to embarrass him.😂😂😂
To me one of a kind.❤
Well rated.
I saw the laugh coming miles away🤣. Thanks for the analysis. I just realised that President Zuma's support on the ground has been resilient in that it fought against the President Mbeki and still went to contest the CR17 and now we see the MK on the rise, it's worth noting on your scoring.
I'm happy with your analysis but want to challenge the fact that Cyril is actually thee president who is using the State to suppress his opponents, he jailed Zuma, Sent NPA on Ace and suspended Busisiwe Mkhwebane remember Zuma allowed Thuli Madonsela to investigate him he also suspended Judge Hlophe
Under Ramaposa crime has gone out of hand
Please do a similar episode with Deputy Presidents. I think it would be an interesting one
100% agree with you Sizwe
Jacob zuma will remain the best. There economy, infrastructure, and social games shout out during his terms.
🤣🤣🤣
I agree
That cat Ramza was so desperate for "unity" and something, that he literally snatched the trophy out of Siya Kolisi's hands 🤣🤣🤣🤣
😂😂😂
I think that's an honest analysis. Your segments are not only informative but educational to prospective voters. The Ayeye level or ranking does denotes what a good in the absence of a better president should be. It is just unfortunate that the current leaders that we currently have in our political spectrum are not in it for the betterment of the country, but to only secure the "bag". we saw this in parliament when the ANC MPs voting against the section 89 report. We no longer have that spirit of patriotism in our political landscape. Cry my beloved country, our children will only inherit ashes.
The laughing made my day 😅
I can't really see how you ranked Zuma higher than Ramaphosa. Even so, they both should've been right at the bottom. I do agree with some of your points, however I feel like what isn't considered is the precedent that has been set and what he has ultimately done to the country in a blatant manner. Zuma is responsible for milking this country dry and was assisted by his cabinet. Sure it's an emotional statement I am making, but I feel that has to be considered when taking his time as president into account, he has ruined a lot of hope for this country and this successor has simply kept that status quo. The social climate might be worse now, but it is infact Ramaphosa inhereting a kingdom stripped of most of it's foundation.
Ayeye JZ
Good episode Doc, in view of upcoming elections please rank presidents of top political parties. Top 5 in terms of the last local elections
I love your content. Today however I loved your smile and laughter please include more of that. ❤❤❤
🙌🏼😄
I'll give cupcake one for standing with Palestine. I'm no fan, but that meant a lot to many people in the world
Many except his own South Africans...
Cyril froze my bank accounts, had proxies launch lawsuits on me & I never had any of those issues while critical of Zuma. Cyril cracks down on his critics with real swiftness. He even finished his term without an SG. I think you need to do an episode on Zuma’s critics vs Cyril’s critics. He even had News24 smear his DP. He had the FBI clear Glencore & let’s not forget Phala Phala!
The way you laughed when you got to Ramaphosa got me cackling 😂😂😂
“Rugby World Cups and stuff”
Yoh, if that isn’t a backhanded compliment I don’t know what is 😂
Please give analysis of who gonna be the NEXT BEST PRESIDENT
No doubt Cyril Ramaphosa failed without supplementary 😂😂.
😂😂😂😂😂😂🤦 he stands alone in failure... He's the best failure 😂😂😂🤦
😂😂 I agree
Real failure 😢
Agree😂😂😂😂😂😂
I'm from China and I remember how we loved the Thabo Mbeki era here in Wuhan ...
Thank you for this video. I recently gained an interest in politics because I have always been ignorant. I learned a lot from this video about the history our country in relation to its past and present president.
Mbeki will remain the best president we ever had 👌🏽
Kindly substantiate your answer🙏🙏
This is a dishonest airbrushing of Mbeki's legacy. There were on average 250k HIV/AIDS related deaths in the country between 2000 and 2009. Mbeki's misguided policy on HIV was catastrophic. Secondly, every other crisis that befell South Africa rests squarely on Zuma and Cupcake's predecessors. We cannot overlook Mandela and Mbeki's policy failures on Energy, land reform, emboldening ZANUPF and setting off the mass exodus of economic migrants.
Yeah, he did such a phenomenal job shutting down nursing and teaching colleges, selling Telekom, delaying the development of power stations and and and
Mbeki outsourced most of the permanent jobs to brokers, most people felt the pain and people were paid less and lost benefits from employers. Recession period was during Mbeki's time
@@helpermlekeleli8057 wow is Mbeki neh 😂
Well well Zuma on "'eish'" how about Universities ,courts Roads that were built , was able to deal with Load shedding so
Unemployment, poverty and inequality went up.
Bcos he was sabotage by the west Sizwe we know that....Mbeki killed plenty people by being in denial about ARVs secondly he had 2/3rd of majority to change the constitution for us to have equal steak in the economy so for dat I dnt think he was number2 Sizwe
Well fair enough
Gupta
The projects started by Mbeki started showing Zuma's presidency
We’ve actually gone through so much as a country wow, #Ayeye 🔥
U got it spot on..
Mbeki presidency HIV denialism as someone who was there during apartheid weekend after weekend burying people bcs of violence etc.Boom Mbeki brought the same mood in a new South Africa 🇿🇦 to burying people weekend after weekend bcs denying HIV AIDS,everyone lost someone dearly to them,my own cousins died every time when think about them Mbeki come to the picture too which really hurt so much.As well good was in terms of over all presidency that alone was bad bcs people were unable to enjoy his reign sadly.I will unequivocal say he destroyed many childhood dreams of many children to grew up with their parents after Apartheid regime was dismantled bcs of HIV AIDS denialism
You and I laughed at the same time 😂😂😂
Great video. Really loved it.
I agree with your analysis except for Kgalema, he should be under average.
Mbeki was the best
alot of black ppl died in health care. he could have done something to save those lives. policy decision that he failed to implement
All of them lead us to catestroph open borders .many people lost life's because of mbeki
More people died in ramaDollar hands also some died in Mbekis hands
In ramaDollar hands they might be even more people to die as his only care about him and his white business partners
Wow that an excellent information Sizwe! Mandela was the best of all..Zuma is the worst of all!
If Ramaphosa was supported particularly by his counterpart, his crew as well as the public in general this country would be successful and prosperous but now these power hungry and greedy sources they will make it worse and miserable
Nah, JZ was better than CR if we look at what they have done for SA . CR has failed dissimally, nothing is working under him.
@usqm6sp2qz2h agree with you,Ramaphosa is the worst