Make that loop horizontal and you will see a phenomenal improvement! I built a full wave loop for 80m and it runs all the way around the forest. It is horizontal, so all the wire is at the same height. It works amazingly well on all bands. Your loop will be resonant on all harmonics. However, if you use balanced line instead of coax, that means you can use a balanced line tuner to get on all bands with little to no loss on the balanced line due to SWR. All loops have more gain than a dipole at the same height. However, if you make it horizontal, you can have some incredible gain towards the horizon on the higher harmonics of the loop. You can also improve the gain by adding corners to the loop. An infinite number of corners theoretically makes it a circle and circles have the maximum gain you can get from any loop.
Hi, Robbie. Sounds good. Give it a try. My plan is to deploy the loop again on a field day only this time in the horizontal. Will make a really interesting comparison. Thanks for the comment. John
Thanks, Tim. I was impressed but I actually forgot to add I worked a few ZL stations as well. Yes, next time the antenna will be horizontal and we'll see how it works. If I could just take some of those trees home...
Good conclusions from your observations at the end. A suggestion - some of your partners were receiving you 15 db over S9, for example. At that level the S meter is in a very non-linear portion of it's range, so small changes are most likely overcome by QSB. Even if propagation was rock solid it is unrealistic to expect a station to be able to discern a difference of even a few db at best. A more meaningful test might be to lower your power so that you are closer to the noise level at his receiver. Then he will tell you if one antenna made you more readable. Because that's the reason you are doing this, right? (to be heard when conditions are tough?). To do that may be difficult as even dropping from 100 watts to 1 watt is only 20 db and you were usually in the range of 20 over 9 to them anyway ! Thanks.
interesting John, I made quad antennas for 27mhz years ago and found they out performed a vertical 5/8 ringo mounted 20ft above it. and the comparison against the dipole which most use as a base line for gain etc, was interesting as well. i have to say i did not hear you on the moyle, but i was not hunting , i sat on 1 freq and called.
I had the brew gear ready for you to drop by too! Nah, it was a great weekend and I had a lot of fun being "away" in the van and playing radio. I really think I have to try the loop in the horizontal plane next time and see how that goes. Can't be all that unhappy with it, though. Cheers! BZ
No problem on the return remarks John! watched the video again while I was here. And Enjoyed it as much as the first time. One always seems to come away with a little bit more each time!. Tnx agn fer sharing. 73 gud CUDTL? de WA1RKS
just found this video John nicely done, Thank you!. my only question is was the loop vertically polarized? or Horiz. I know it was physically vertical. but where was the feed . My understanding is on a loop it depends where the feed is for polarization? Obviously that would make a huge difference against a Horizontal dipole? Thanks again for taking the time to do all of worked and comparison, and better yet for sharing it with us. 73 Gud dx de Ellis/WA1RKS
Hi, Ellis. My apologies for not responding sooner. This COVID year has kept me busy. Please see my comment to Ralph (above). Thanks for taking the time to watch the vid and then comment.
Good old dipole design always reliable , the loop being vertical as probably got a lower angle of radiation so difficult to compare but good to have the two up to try out, plus are they orientated the same way I wonder ?
Hi, Doc. That's a really good question and one I didn't pursue. If the loop was horizontal (i.e. a "cloud-warmer") then it would have been a clear answer. Something I'll have to test next field day. Cheers!
Very cool video! I am using a SM-5 Desk Mic myself with the IC-7300 on base station operating. I want to built me a 1 EL-Quad for 40-10m to run this portable with my Spiderbeam Fiberglas Mast and the matching Spreader Kit. and a home made EFHW vertical as switching comparisson. May be I get lucky to meet you on air to give me a receiving report. 73's de Uncle Guenter
Hi John, how did you have it polarised? if you had it vertically polarised, then you are comparing vertical with horizontal. were they both in the same plane? how did the loop perform on 20M?
Thanks, Ralph. The antenna was in the vertical plane. As one question from Ellis (below) asked, I used to believe the polarisation of a loop depended on how it was fed (horizontal or vertical side feed). But other things I have read more recently have suggested the polarisation depends upon the plane in which the loop lies. So, yes - the dipole was in the horizontal plane and the loop in the vertical. No, I didn't multi-band the antenna as it was coaxially fed. So, no use on 20m to report. I'm open to learned debate on the topic of polarisation...so if others want to start a discussion, I'm up to be better informed! Cheers!
What has been your experience in comparing the dipole and full wave loop in terms of receive? Is the loop more or less susceptible to noise? Thanks, for the video! 73 AI4IJ
John! Please Don't forget midpoint DC EARTH on the loopantenna - this to avoid high voltage surges - which would destroy Your RXTX! Always make an earth-connection with the loop-antenna terminals *BEFORE* connecting it to any or EITHER of Your radiogear! Extreme CAUTION with loop-antenna terminals is *advised* since static elektricity buildup in the loop-antenna could "fry" every radiogear and render it useless! *A static electricity chock* is possible and could be dangerouse! *Be aware!* 73s de Gunnar sm6oer
Yet another ham proves there is no best antenna. All antennas have good points and less than good points. Weather, propagation, sun activity, soil in the area and just dumb luck all play a part.
Make that loop horizontal and you will see a phenomenal improvement! I built a full wave loop for 80m and it runs all the way around the forest. It is horizontal, so all the wire is at the same height. It works amazingly well on all bands. Your loop will be resonant on all harmonics. However, if you use balanced line instead of coax, that means you can use a balanced line tuner to get on all bands with little to no loss on the balanced line due to SWR. All loops have more gain than a dipole at the same height. However, if you make it horizontal, you can have some incredible gain towards the horizon on the higher harmonics of the loop. You can also improve the gain by adding corners to the loop. An infinite number of corners theoretically makes it a circle and circles have the maximum gain you can get from any loop.
Thanks for posting this, it's been a useful comparison based on real experience.
Great video John! Super to see that well done comparison. Thanks!! ⚡️📻
No worries, mate. Glad it's been useful. Time to do more vids...soon... Cheers!
Excellent John, i planning a horizontal 80M full wave delta loop, at 30ft each leg..
Hi, Robbie. Sounds good. Give it a try. My plan is to deploy the loop again on a field day only this time in the horizontal. Will make a really interesting comparison. Thanks for the comment. John
Thanks for getting straight to the subject matter and a big thank you for your editing.
Matthew, thanks for the feedback. Glad it was worthwhile. I just need more time to do more of it.
Nice video John. Great to see a loop working very well. I suspect it would be quieter on RX at home if horizontally polarised. 73
Thanks, Tim. I was impressed but I actually forgot to add I worked a few ZL stations as well. Yes, next time the antenna will be horizontal and we'll see how it works. If I could just take some of those trees home...
John Saunders yeah I totally get you about the trees. My very small garden is inhabited by more fibreglass poles than trees. Never mind! 73
Why should it be quieter?
Good conclusions from your observations at the end. A suggestion - some of your partners were receiving you 15 db over S9, for example. At that level the S meter is in a very non-linear portion of it's range, so small changes are most likely overcome by QSB. Even if propagation was rock solid it is unrealistic to expect a station to be able to discern a difference of even a few db at best. A more meaningful test might be to lower your power so that you are closer to the noise level at his receiver. Then he will tell you if one antenna made you more readable. Because that's the reason you are doing this, right? (to be heard when conditions are tough?). To do that may be difficult as even dropping from 100 watts to 1 watt is only 20 db and you were usually in the range of 20 over 9 to them anyway ! Thanks.
interesting John, I made quad antennas for 27mhz years ago and found they out performed a vertical 5/8 ringo mounted 20ft above it.
and the comparison against the dipole which most use as a base line for gain etc, was interesting as well.
i have to say i did not hear you on the moyle, but i was not hunting , i sat on 1 freq and called.
I had the brew gear ready for you to drop by too! Nah, it was a great weekend and I had a lot of fun being "away" in the van and playing radio. I really think I have to try the loop in the horizontal plane next time and see how that goes. Can't be all that unhappy with it, though. Cheers! BZ
@@johnsaunders8315 i think it would work better horizontal, less noise.
@@jeffreylord8172 Noise wasn't an issue at BP Park in any case! We've gotta have another field day...once the virus dissipates.
No problem on the return remarks John! watched the video again while I was here. And Enjoyed it as much as the first time. One always seems to come away with a little bit more each time!. Tnx agn fer sharing. 73 gud CUDTL? de WA1RKS
just found this video John nicely done, Thank you!. my only question is was the loop vertically polarized? or Horiz. I know it was physically vertical. but where was the feed . My understanding is on a loop it depends where the feed is for polarization? Obviously that would make a huge difference against a Horizontal dipole? Thanks again for taking the time to do all of worked and comparison, and better yet for sharing it with us. 73 Gud dx de Ellis/WA1RKS
Hi, Ellis. My apologies for not responding sooner. This COVID year has kept me busy. Please see my comment to Ralph (above). Thanks for taking the time to watch the vid and then comment.
Good old dipole design always reliable , the loop being vertical as probably got a lower angle of radiation so difficult to compare but good to have the two up to try out, plus are they orientated the same way I wonder ?
Thanks, Steve. Yes, when I get to test them again, I would like the loop in the same plane. Just need time to do radio stuff again. Cheers!
Which antenna gave the closest contacts.
Hi, Doc. That's a really good question and one I didn't pursue. If the loop was horizontal (i.e. a "cloud-warmer") then it would have been a clear answer. Something I'll have to test next field day. Cheers!
Very cool video! I am using a SM-5 Desk Mic myself with the IC-7300 on base station operating. I want to built me a 1 EL-Quad for 40-10m to run this portable with my Spiderbeam Fiberglas Mast and the matching Spreader Kit. and a home made EFHW vertical as switching comparisson. May be I get lucky to meet you on air to give me a receiving report. 73's de Uncle Guenter
Hi John,
how did you have it polarised? if you had it vertically polarised, then you are comparing vertical with horizontal. were they both in the same plane? how did the loop perform on 20M?
Thanks, Ralph. The antenna was in the vertical plane. As one question from Ellis (below) asked, I used to believe the polarisation of a loop depended on how it was fed (horizontal or vertical side feed). But other things I have read more recently have suggested the polarisation depends upon the plane in which the loop lies. So, yes - the dipole was in the horizontal plane and the loop in the vertical. No, I didn't multi-band the antenna as it was coaxially fed. So, no use on 20m to report. I'm open to learned debate on the topic of polarisation...so if others want to start a discussion, I'm up to be better informed! Cheers!
What has been your experience in comparing the dipole and full wave loop in terms of receive? Is the loop more or less susceptible to noise?
Thanks, for the video!
73
AI4IJ
John! Please Don't forget midpoint DC EARTH on the loopantenna - this to avoid high voltage surges - which would destroy Your RXTX! Always make an earth-connection with the loop-antenna terminals *BEFORE* connecting it to any or EITHER of Your radiogear!
Extreme CAUTION with loop-antenna terminals is *advised* since static elektricity buildup in the loop-antenna could "fry" every radiogear and render it useless! *A static electricity chock* is possible and could be dangerouse!
*Be aware!*
73s de Gunnar sm6oer
so cool, simple wire antennas always work better
It was all in the raising of the antennas to the great heights, courtesy of the man with the slingshot.
That's not portable, mobile maybe...
Sorry for not replying earlier. No disrespect intended sir, but...ahhh, it is portable - I'd hate to try and go mobile with an antenna in a tree. :)
Yet another ham proves there is no best antenna. All antennas have good points and less than good points. Weather, propagation, sun activity, soil in the area and just dumb luck all play a part.
Amen, Doug! But, I will add that nothing beats good construction techniques! :) Cheers!