You can be critical of something and still enjoy it, and that's a message that more people need to understand. Thanks for making this video, Glass. I think your point with this video is far more important than you could have ever realized :)
100%, there's a weird notion nowadays that if you criticize some a piece of media for whatever reason, it's automatically bad, when that can't be further from the case. HGSS are still very good/great games but are very far from flawless, and I think more people need to realize that
@@elijahbruno2814Gen 5 isn't my favourite, but I've noticed than gen 2 fans tend to be far more dismissive of and offended by any criticisms of the games they deem as perfect. Gen 5 fans can point out flaws in BW, but HGSS is seemingly nothing short of perfect
@@PMar797 I disagree. Black and White 2 is considered the pinnacle with HGSS being a close second you can't criticize BW2 anytime you do Gen 5 fans attack relentlessly even if you have valid points. I've seen more Gen 2 fans criticize Gen 2 than anything
@@elijahbruno2814 clearly you haven't been around the community for the past decade. Gen 2 fanboys literally berate and talk down anyone who has any valid criticisms of GSC and especially HGSS and can't accept that those games aren't nearly as good as they've led themselves to believe. I've been a victim of these insane people Even though Emerald is my favourite game in the series, I can see why BW2 are the best games in the franchise, but I have no problem seeing and pointing out the issues they have. Gen 5 fans can be defensive at times, but by and large they don't disagree Also there's no way HGSS are the second best Pokemon games. They're a pain to play through and aren't even in the top 5 lol
I can sorta see where your coming from? But the trainers in the lighthouse don't use steel Pokemon and there's not really any puzzle in it, just go up a bunch of floors and call it a day. Although I won't stop you from believing that's the case
That's just how some gyms were designed back when gen 2 came out. They were simple and barebones. They wanted to remain faithful to core elements of the original such as the gym designs@@theglasshalffull6958
One element about the original GSC that I feel like has been forgotten is that the 100 pokemon we now know as "Johto Pokemon" or "Gen 2 Pokemon" were originally explained as pokemon that were discovered in the 3 year gap between the events of generations 1 and 2. The likely thought process was that most trainers didn't use these pokemon as they don't yet know that they exist. It also explains why many of these pokemon are either rare or have unique encounter/evolution methods. If they were easily discovered by simply walking in grass, they would have been discovered before the events of gen 1. Of course after it was decided that pokemon would continue indefinitely after gen 2, saying that ~100 pokemon are discovered every few years isn't sustainable. This was retconed and the logic of introducing new pokemon turned into pokemon that were first discovered in the region the new games take place in. The remakes had to rewrite the Johto region for this logic but most pokemon kept their old encounter methods and enemies kept their old teams but now there's no in universe reason for why they barely use these pokemon or why they are so rare in Johto and Kanto. There are even some leftover dialogue from the original games that weren't removed like a person saying that Elm discovered that Pikachu was an evolved pokemon even though you could have gotten a Pichu in the kanto remakes.
The Pikachu line was actually updated to say that Elm was the first person to discover this fact, showing that it's not new information, but that he made the original discovery regardless. (Although that doesn't make sense anymore thanks to Legends Arceus 😅)
Not an excuse to make them so difficult to encounter, many of them in the post game to the point that they're unusable on anyone's teams. It's just bad game design - plain and simple
@theglasshalffull6958 i love it from a critical standpoint and a humor standpoint, like their grand plan is so weak they have to bring back their old boss who got his ass beat by minor to get them supposedly back on track, it's hilarious-
I can somewhat see that take, since those games are supposed to be direct sequels... but man gamefreak could've tried a little harder to make Johto stand out on their own more
@ How Johto was presented compared to how the games were was disappointing, we had the Celebi movie and the Entei and Unknown movies that could’ve expanded the legendaries in the game, realistically they were focused on Kanto and the Anime more than Johto and HG/SS could’ve been the fix we desperately wanted and needed to get Johto in its full glory, but I think HG/SS was a filler for what was to come next. Maybe in the future Johto will get a true experience (after all, to my knowledge this is the ONLY game to feature two full regions from start to finish). The potential is there… game freak needs to let Kanto go…
Gamefreak's weird love for kanto has slowly lessened over the years (at least from what I've seen) from like 2013-2020 it was bad but I THINK Gamefreak finally gotten the memo that we don't want Kanto constantly shoved down our throats
These games were innovative for their time; while their novelty has diminished somewhat, they remain enjoyable. I remember where I was and what I was doing when Gold and Silver came, just as I remember where I was and what I was doing when. Red, Blue, Ruby, and Saphire came out.
I don't think the legendaries need to play a role in the story. Lugia and Ho-oh have so much atmosphere to their encounters, and the cool part is getting to encounter something that seems like it's supposed to be rare.
I totally agree that the atmosphere that they surround themselves in is awesome, I really love the whirl islands and bell tower... but idk having Lugia and Ho-oh contribute nothing to the plot or region in general feels like a missed opportunity
I've replayed every generation recently. This was the only game where I didn't team build, as the selection of pokemon was genuinely terrible. I've never used a legendary on my main team except for during my replay of HGSS, and I only used them in a select few battles.
The Pokemon selection of Johto is literally so terrible and I'm surprised more people don't talk about it. When I usually play Pokemon games I tend to specifically choose ones that come from region they were introduced in and doing that with Johto is so annoying. More often than not your team is going to consist of your starter, quagsire, ampharos and maybe togepi. Would've been nice to use a mismagius if it wasn't available after the game lmao
Johto always was just an expansion pack for Kanto as opposed to its own region with its own thing. That's probably what Gamefreak thought new regions were back then, I guess.
Well Gold and SIlver were originally gonna be the last games in the series, so Gamefreak probably wanted to do as many callbacks as possible. Problem is though it rips so much originality Johto could've had and nowadays it's hard to imagine Johto/Gold and Silver without also thinking of the Kanto post game
6:57 younger I though that skarmory was a gen 3 pokemon, because I've never find one in Crystal, but find many in route 113 in Hoenn. It's only much later (during gen 4 era) that I realized, yeah ... Skarmory was in fact a gen 2 pokemon. Edit : 9:11 Apparently you too had the same experience as me bak then X)
I only realized Skarmory was a gen 2 Pokemon a couple years back when I was doing the gen 2 memory challenge. When it told me I missed skarmory and the slugma line I was genuinely so shocked lol
You can call it "Why Johto Games Are Worse Than Your Remember" if you don't want to talk specifically about the remakes. While Winona uses a Skarmory, Blaine in Gen 2 uses a Magcargo, so by that point it's like remembering that the post-game exists. I totally understand for Skarmory given that no gen 2 trainer uses them and it is version exclusive. Call me biased, but I played RS before Gen 2 so I thought Pokémon like Chinchou, Girafarig, Slugma, and Natu's line were gen 3 mons as well, until I met them in routes. Good thing Will has a Xatu, but it's the only Gen 2 psychic type he has, no Girafarig, or Slowking. The fact you talked about Archer not having a theme reminds me how Team Galactic, Skull, and Star are the only teams whose admins or commanders have a battle theme (idk if you'd count Marnie as an admin), so it kinda made the Team Flare scientists less memorable (and it's not like they had a recurring ace Pokémon like in Team Galactic).
I considered having the titles just list off the "Johto games" but I decided to just use HGSS instead since it stands out more, plus I try to lean more to talking specifically about HGSS but either way I think the name works. And yes Blaine does use a magcargo on his team which is nice Johto representation... but too bad it only happens in the post game it is so crazy to me how many Johto specific Pokemon feel not native to it, a while back I was really into the Pokemon memorization game (where you have to list off every Pokemon from a specific region from memory) and the first time around I did so bad at memorizing Johto pokemon because there are so many mon's that are either really forgettable or felt like they came from another region. And yeah it seems like overtime Gamefreak gave more specific themes to characters who don't necessarily need them. Which makes it all the more funny that a head villain in a large organization was still too mid to get his own lol
While i do agree with you, i feel like comparing johto to the cames that came after it isn't a very good way of criticizing it. You do that so much in this review that it gets kind of grating. Gen 2 was meant to specifically be a sequel to Gen 1 and nothing more. In that context, it being so connected to gen 1 kinda makes sense.
Alright I see why you’d point that out and I even mention that fact once or twice throughout the video. The main reason why I did compare them to what came out after is because of how often I hear criticisms about the modern games and see how can they can be easily applied for games that are considered “the best in the series” and how hypocritical it can sound when someone trashes sword and shields story or the over reliance on Kanto when gold and silver get overlooked for the same flaws But I also recognize that it’s unfair since the second games in the series so there was a lot less pressure back then. Which is why I made the comparison to the Kanto games in regard to the story (team rocket plot in red and blue was much more interesting/better executed than gold and silver) and the legendaries (mewtwo having some sort of lore/existence in the plot with the Pokémon house while Lugia is never mentioned at all) Having said all this I can understand why my criticism could still come off as unfair tho
Fair point about comparing Johto to future regions, but one thing you can definitely do is compare it to Kanto In that regard, Kanto in gen 1 is a far better designed region than Johto, so it's definitely not a product of the time. Johto was just not well thought out
There's something most people have a hard time vocalizing, I've often came to the conclusion like many other that Kanto and Jotho are basically one region and the 250 first Pokemon are the Pokedex from said region. The fact that Pokédex is even more separate in the same region in. more recent titles even support this idea.
Idk, it’s still never specifically stated in the games that Kanto/Johto should be looked at as one big region. They’re neighbours for sure but a lot of cultural aspects you’ll find in both regions (such as Johto being a lot more traditional) means there’s an obvious divide between them.
the reason johto gets a pass for Kanto pandering 45:02 is bc it wasn't seen as that bad of a thing until gen 5 and onward. The "gen wunners" vs the gen 5 fans were in full force after gen 6 release and its been a constant fight since then 😅😅
Yeah your definitely right in that it didn't really become a huge problem until later on in the series, still though I feel like it's not that great of an excuse to just praise HGSS when it literally did the exact same thing
After watching this video you have convinced me of something that I knew in the corner of my heart but always dismissed. You're right, a Meganium doesn't have to be good in order to enjoy playing with it.
You can actually get evolve togetic directly after you beat the elite 4 by doing the pokeathlon. the shiny stone is one of the rewards there. The problem is that its still after you beat the game, and its so annoying because togekiss is such an amazing pokemon locked until the post game
That definitely softens the blow a little bit since that means you can use a togekiss when you battle the kanto gym leaders... but man it's still not an absolute concrete way like it is finding the item on the ground itself and the fact that it's still only available after the game is confusing and disappointing
Speaking from a non nostalgic player, since I never played these games as a child just recently, while they are definitely not perfect, i still had a lot of with them (i only played the ds ones), these games really gave me a sense of adventure, and the gameplay loop that can be really boring to some people, actually hooked me on in
@@giganticmoon to me they are good games, no great, not amazing but good, while there's better turn based rpgs, pokemon is just one that you pick when you wanna have fun and relaxing time, at least thre ds ones, they are the only ones i played i can't give me opinion in other games lol
So as a fan of Pokemon Crystal here's what I got.... Pokemon Crystal isn't meant to have high stakes. It's a build your own adventure. The Team Rocket plot isn't supposed to be a big focus. The game relies on your personal experience not the "oh how epic movie like can we make the game look!" It's a DnD style make your journey game. The problem with HGSS is they try to make it a Gen 4 Game with a Gen 2 Skin.
I always see people talking about how the Jotho games has so much "content" because you can go to kanto after beating the elite 4. But do they really tho? If you are talking about optional content, i can kinda see it for HGSS. But if we are just talking about playing trought the main game than Ruby and Sapphire, Platinum, Black and White, BW2, and HGSS are all basically the same length, all having an average of 31-36 hours to complete according to HowLongToBeat. The Jotho games aren't significantly longer than the other games, and if we are talking about GSC, they are actually on the lower end at 30 hours. The problem is that people see Kanto and the 8 new gyms, and think that this is now "DOUBLES" the content of what they have already played. However this is "NOT" double the content at all. All you do in Kanto is just run around and crush a couple of underleveled gym leaders with a tiny team rocket sub plot for the radio tower. It legit only takes like 2-3 hours to complete... it really is not that much content. And more importantly, it really isn't even fun content... it is honestly really boring, there is basically no story there, and for the most it is just piss easy. Tbh a lot of the time when i play through a Jotho game, i honestly just stop after beating the Elite Four, because the Kanto section just feels like such a waste of time.
Well I can understand people's love for HGSS's post game since the novelty of going back to entirely other region after exploring another one sounds really cool on paper. Even though like you said, it's essentially just a glorified boss rush. Still though I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing and since this type of post game hasn't been recreated since the novelty of it is still talked about till this day. And unless another Pokemon game offers up that same experience but adds more substance to it than people will still look at it in a good light. Also wow I didn't realize that HGSS still takes as much time to beat as it does other games, you would think that the play time would be a lot longer huh?
I've beaten Johto in 15 hours in my latest playthrough, and that includes going through the optional dungeons and exploring the entire region Didn't really bother with Kanto afterwards because the game up to that point was a slog, but you can easily beat it in 3-5 hours 20 hours is not that long for a Pokemon game. This "most content" argument has always been silly and easy to disprove, especially with the likes of BW2 having a really long main quest and then so much more to do after beating Iris
I really love your critique on how modern games have flaws like over reliance on gen 1 callbacks and flat story but when the Johto games have the exact same issues the community considers it the best game ever.
It’s a weird double standard that that I don’t really understand as to why it exists. That’s why I think it’s interesting to think about what would’ve happened if Johto was released nowadays. And if people would criticize it’s callbacks to Kanto in the same way people criticize the modern games for doing the same
Where have you been these past 5 years? Johto is constantly criticized for "leaning on Kanto". GSC at least had the excuse of being made before the rules of what a new generation should be were established. admittedly HGSS could and should have done more to make Johto more separate from Kanto, but game freak has always been stupid and lazy with remakes. Modern pokemon games have no excuse and actively double down on the screw-ups that people hate about Johto.
@ this is more a recent thing I feel like only started after pChal made his gen 2 video in 2020. Before that even critiquing a Johto game would get you bullied
I actually watched pchals video before making this one to make sure I didn’t just list off everything he said in his video. And while we still have similar opinions his video was a lot more laid back and off the cuff than what I tried doing with this video
your dex argument is baffling excluding starters and legendries: ok that's fine ig excluding additions to gen 1 families: while they aren't wholly original, those pokemon were introduced at the same time as Jhoto was, and Jhoto is kind of ingrained in their identity whining about future evos to "incomplete lines" is kinda dumb. yes, there are gonna be some underpowered options, not everything has to be 480+ BST and perfectly optimized for a nuzlocke. I can assure you, a playthrough of Hoenn is gonna be more fun with underdogs like tropius than just swampert and swellow and other nuzlocke must haves. And even then, some of the examples you use are genuinely good like girafarig and ursaring. Also why are the ones with retroactive babies included? Azurill is barely any different from Marill, both design and stats-wise. Sudowoodo is a roadblock pokemon (tm), so they wouldn't give you early bonsly, and mantyke wouldn't make sense to encounter in any location before you get surf, so that wouldn't be introduced earlier either Why does it matter if there are few 3 stage lines? I think it's just better that there are 2 stage and single stage pokemon because it adds uniqueness. I don't see anything inherently better about 3 stage line pokemon than 2 or single stage lines, is there something I'm missing? I agree that the larvitar line shouldn't be post game. Jumpluff line sucks? Like, cuz they aren't offensively focused? I hate to break it to you, but only wanting performance from your team sucks the fun out of pokemon. What draws kids into liking a pokemon? Do they look at their moveset or base stats or abilities? No, they see the design first, strength may boost their opinion of the pokemon, but design is the most important element to their core demographic, that's probably why you got into this series as a kid, the cool designs. Ampharos is good at beating the game, but you shouldn't limit your only options to S tier pokemon, again, it's more fun to go on a vibes based team of your favorites rather than optimizing the playthrough like you're a nuzlocke channel. Just because a pokemon is retroactively added onto, doesn't mean it's useless. You show Girafarig and Piloswine in the visual, and those are very solid, offensively minded pokemon. These lines get evolutions because the fanbase generally thinks that every line needs to be 3 stages and like 500+ BST, even though they were fine as is. The total number of the kanto pokemon you put is unfair because I assume you included the kanto region as well, and of course there are gonna be mostly kanto pokemon in a region that didn't have any jhoto mons in their debut. It's also not a super fair comparison in the first place because jhoto's new pokemon (even the ones you excluded) are about a third less than kanto's originals. Also, wow, the exaggeration in this segment is insane you seem to judge pokemon based on stats and performance rather than design and vibes. Maybe that's the reason you're so sinical about this aspect into adulthood sincerely, A Ledian Fan
Your a ledian fan so automatically your opinions are invalid … Jk lmao, but in actuality even though it may seem like I care more about stats than design that’s actually pretty false, I mean again, I love meganium and I can admit that it’s pretty horrendous to use in battle. And in terms of using something like ampharos, the 2 reasons I decided to use on my team are because 1. It looks cool I like ampharos 2. There was literally nothing else I could’ve added. Everything I find in routes are the same ole Kanto Pokémon that I really didn’t want to use in my Johto play through or some Johto Pokémon like girafirag which is pretty ehh on its own if you don’t include it’s evolution it got in SV. When I typically play a Pokémon game I exclusively want to use Pokémon that are brand new to that region, and I went into that same mindset when I played through this game and I would’ve absolutely loved using a murkrow or a houndour IF they were actually available to catch before you beat the game. I really feel like it wouldn’t hurt to have more of these Pokémon available in anyway shape or form but are just locked behind the post game when that’s usually the case for no other game Also funnily enough, that spreadsheet I made only consisted of Johto areas, none from Kanto, which is crazy since the numbers were so skewed for Kanto but trust me I only used Johto areas (probably should’ve put some sort of indicator in the video) And finally… the jumpluff part was mostly a bit, but in my experience using it he’s been a pretty bad asset for my team (cool design tho)
I think you are kinda missing the point. The problem with the vast majoroty of Jotho pokemon is that they ARE underpowered without their subsequent gena evolutions Stuff like Togetic, Piloswine, Yanma, Gligar! They just don't have the stat to be a good member of anyone's team. Not every pokemon needs to be a powerhouse or a viable competitive option but they at least need the stats to not be runned over by any pokemon they don't outlevel Even kids are not gona want to keep those pokemon in their team once they realize they get destoried by everything. Sure there might always be that one person that likes Ledian and alike, so much it's willing to spend hours grinding to put it on par with the rest of the game, but that's more an exeption rather than a rule Even giving those pokemons a "support role" it's not enough to save them, since supporting the rest of your team it's not as needed when you are up against an AI that doesn't switch pokemons. Not to mention that the fact that building a good support Pokemon for an i game team it's actually pretty hard, first of all in the case of the Gen 4 TMs games still break so you can't reshuffle your moves as you please and secondly many support pokemon need stuff like wether conditions (Jumpluff) or hidden abilities (Murkrow) to actually be any good at supporting (not to mention the ability to use items in battle nullifies the need for most forms of support) And even if some pokemon might still be serviceble like Girafarig, there is a difference between a just ok, and a good pokemon
I had a very similar situation with togetic. You can get shiny stone by getting first place in the bug catching contest before you can even hatch Togepi! Just learn how to always get first place
Can't you only win a shiny stone after you unlock the national dex? That's what I found online at least. Still though there are ways to get a shiny stone before getting all 16 gym badges in the bug catching contest and pokeathlon, but there is still some RNG involved, especially since you can only do the bug catching contest on certain days as well
@@theglasshalffull6958 oh! that sounds unfortunate, let me just test it myself and come back to you, i dont have nat dex on my shiny hunting copy yet. that would be huge if you can get it before
"I get it, Jasmine is hot so she gets a pass" Me: But Raihan is hot, too- "But Raihan is pretty hot as well!" (And yes, I'm saying this as a straight guy who's crushed on Jasmine ever since I first played SoulSilver as a 10 y/o. Raihan is just up there in looks).
I don't mind Oh-oh's treatment distant from the game story. Even though they let you capture it, this detachment sorta keeps it as more of an actual deity than other legendary pokemon. The others are more defined in a bigger cosmology and more actively manipulated in their respective games' stories. That makes as you say for a potentially better story but it also pulls their leg down and drags them from heaven into just being other characters. I feel move awe from Oh-oh remaining distant and being forever theorized as a crucial part of Ash's journey in the anime than something like Arceus giving an Iphone to the player in Legends. The evil team shenanigans being more grounded but not as ridiculous as Team Yell is actually refreshing in the grand scheme of things when the other teams seemingly want to up the scale into continental reshaping or universal restart. That said and potentially contradicting my previous paragraph, this video gives me the idea that the evil team story could be rewritten in the following manner: [ x P ] Giovanni back in Red dismantled the team on his own account so it makes no sense he'd even consider it in the sequel. Instead, have the admins want something from Giovanni that Giovanni is unwilling to give them (not necessarily an object or pokemon but whatever "something") and make use of Ho-oh's wish-granting lore to put him into the story. Also maybe have Ho-oh be in the radar for Silver for something Giovanni related, ultimately perhaps dropping that idea and resolving to not depend on such a plan (not necessarily replacing any of the story he already has in the games as it is, if possible just adding to it). Lugia has never felt super related to Ho-oh beyond the "used to live on tower next door" bit, and it is kind of embarrassing for the "beast of the SEA" to have the tower burned down while the literal bird of fire next door gets to keep it. So maybe just make it a tower made for Lugia without Lugia living there. Make use of Selebi in-story and take Lugia to an un-burned version of the tower when inside, connect it in some manner to the kanto birds like in the movies and bridge the trip there with some sort of mission. Something beyond just "capture each trio that is randomly around the map". [/ x P ] So yeah, there are ways of improvement. I think the intention of the OG games's pokemon ratios was to give players something familiar (kanto pokemon) knowing that players were gonna be hunting for the newer ones, and for HGSS they updated with some gen 3 and 4 stuff but otherwise did not want to alter things too much when gen 2 was already consolidated. Either way this expectation kind of overturns the lower ratios. The idea is to make the gen 2s more special by making them a bit more rare and expect kids to wanna try them after the effort of finding them. This doesn't mean gen 2 were all that rare. They gave you Mareep basically for free on the bushes before Falkner's gym shouting to you "here's a new gen electric right before that flying gym". Jasmine's quest is a stand in for the contents you'd usually play inside the gym. You might say it lacks steel types and might be lacking in a lot more places, but most definitely that was the intention. Would love to see that improved someday if they ever re-remake it.... but please don't have them remake them right now.... or gen 5. Not until their games get their act together from the technical issues of the last couple gens.... if they ever do xD EDIT: One more note. Their content derived from other games can be enough that it can be deemed dependent of them, but I'd say it is a strong point in favor of HGSS. It is cause of celebration that they took ANYTHING from any other gens on this one considering how much they decide to drop (like follow pokemon in future entries). Pokedex included, even if OGs grabbed a ton of Kanto and gen 4 grabbed a ton of everything else. If a game has a mix of its own stuff and stuff from other regions it instantly ups my personal enjoyment of it. Gen 3 having only Hoenn seagles in half the map or BW1 having only Unova pokemon before post-game was always a detriment to me, no matter how much one might argue they are trying to get their own identity. Some familiarity is also needed. Look at the reaction of "we are dropping megas moving forward" and "no more national dex" at their time xD A blend is needed IMO. Whenever they wanna leave all the features or older rosters of pokemon behind, there's always a negative reaction.
I find that All of the really cool Pokemon (electivire, gliscor, mamoswine, etc) need some weird evolution method while all the lesser ones are usually level up
The only real problems with these games (HGSS not the originals) that they didnt fix with the original are the lack of a proper level curve, the lack of improvement to the gym leader teams, and to some degree the lack of Johto pokemon in Johto but the Safari zone does remedy that to a degree
I’m no game developer but is it weird to think that thinking the level curve is an easy fix?? Like it baffles me that one of the most outdated things about the original gold and silver was somehow completely overlooked when it came to making the remakes
@theglasshalffull6958 my guess is cause they wanted the game to remain open ended after the 4th gym. I would have given the game a proper level curve while still letting players challenge the gyms in any order they want.
@@juandiegotorres9632the Kanto games are open ended between Erika and Blaine. Even though the game leads you in a specific direction, you can fight those gyms in different orders. So, that doesn't excuse Johto's bad gyms after Morty Furthermore, the HGSS Safari zone is a terribly designed feature and the worst in the series, given how it relies on backtracking, waiting in game hours and weird customization to unlock its full potential and encounter every Pokemon
Oh wow are gyms 4-7 really that open-ended? Strange how I've never seen anyone talk about it. Still though I wonder if that was an intentional game design or was there not enough time for Gamefreak to actually add roadblocks or something to not get farther in the game
@@theglasshalffull6958 yep, as soon as you get to Celadon, you can get the tea and then go to Saffron right away. You can also beat Koga, get surf and then challenge Blaine if you go to Cinnabar via Pallet town The fact that you can do that doesn't mean that it's the intentional way, and the gym leaders' levels are adjusted accordingly. Meanwhile in the Johto games, the region after Ecruteak is laid out in a way that makes it more logical to go west before going East. While you *can* go in a different direction, that will just make you backtrack more - just like in Kanto. Despite that, the gym leader levels are completely wack, and the pacing is also inconsistent. They got this better in RBY, why did they have to break it in GSC and not fix it in HGSS?
Yes that’s technically true, but it is a lot more luck based and only available on certain days, I was only talking about super concrete ways to get the shiny stone and the fact that’s it’s only available super late in the game is such a missed opportunity
@@juandiegotorres9632not until you get the national dex. Even then, you either have to get all 16 badges or grind the Pokeathlon/bug catching contest until you have the means to get one. That's just dragged out and frustrating gameplay, and makes the Togepi line not as tempting to use as it should be
It almost feels like a slap in the face being given such a cool Pokemon and then being told "Yeah, this thing isn't viable until after you've completed 99% of the game lol"
I think team rocket was so off put in gen 2 BECAUSE Giovanni wasn’t there to lead the team. Therefore team rocket is doing stuff that their previous boss did before thinking it will work the same. This is not team rocket.
I can understand wanting to portray Team Rocket in a more pitiful light for having their leader gone and not functioning as an evil group as well as before. However, it couldn't have been done in a more boring way lol. The admins aren't compelling characters to follow, again Archer is such an awful villain and the fact that they only show up three times makes it hard to really care about what they're going through and makes them feel so pointless as a result when there WAS potential for something more interesting
I've responded to a lot of comments in here, but just wanted to say that you've made a solid video. Keep it up! One thing I want to call out is the inclusion of Kanto in these games. The feature sounds good... on paper. In reality, Kanto was massively downgraded from what it was in RBY. Sure, you can see changes, but they're all negative, such as the removal of areas (Pokemon tower, Pokemon mansion) or trimmed down locations (Cinnabar island, Power plant, Mt Moon). Meanwhile, we don't see any new areas that popped up. I find it hard to believe that Kanto, the region that's seen as more advanced than Johto, hasn't grown in any way in the years since RBY. If you've played RBY or especially FRLG before any Johto game, you'll notice the obvious lack of new content. It does not boost these games up as much as many people claim
I can definitely see where your coming from for sure, I remember on my most recent playthrough of the post game I went into Mt Moon and lavender tower and thinking "wait that's all there is here" and I guess this was made just to save time and thinking players wouldn't really care about what's gone. But in actuality kinda does strip down Kanto to what it was from before. However, I will still defend it in saying it's still a very cool addition. Since no other game since then has attempted to add a completely new region since these games so it's uniqueness still makes it a fan-favourite. Unless we eventually get a game that proves otherwise. Also you can't lie that there has been some decent changes here and there that are pretty cool. Like the certain gym leader changes and redesigns adds something that I feel should be talked about in a good light. And the fact that cinnabar island disintegrated to dust is something I'll always find funny. Some people have said that HGSS post game is essentially just a boss rush and I can definitely see why. However, I can totally see why people still love it till this day. Also I have seen you responding to a bunch of comments here and I love it! It gives a sense of community to this video/my channel and reading/responding to comments are one of my favourite things about making videos!
I see that sentiment going around which I can see why that is, but all the trainers don’t use steel types and you sorta just go up a couple of floors to the top, not really a puzzle I’d say Better than nothing though I guess
@@theglasshalffull6958 the only reason I'm guessing that is because in HGSS, after curing Amphy, some of the trainers in the Lighthouse congratulate you at Jasmine's Gym.
Thing is with the GS story, it at least has the excuse of being the second ever Pokemon game. SwSh do not have that excuse, especially given that BW happened between the two
Yeah I agree that GS story is able to get excused in that sense but I find the story in their predecessors to be more interesting because of the presence of Giovanni, and in the dozens of cool ways that this "Team rocket comeback" story could've been made it seemed gamefreak went with the most boring one. But again like I said in the video, The SWSH story still sucks ass
This is why I say that Remakes should exist for the old games Johto,Unova & Kalos too. But ppl are like, it's fine Legends games exist not realising that Legends are prequel/sequels
I actually like the story of the gen 2 games and their gen 4 remakes. I like how much more down to earth it is compared to the super high stakes "preventing the end of the world as we know it" stories of some other Pokemon games. The fact that what is left of Team Rocket loves their boss so much they're doing their best to cause enough of a ruckus to make him come back is rather heartwarming and allows me to feel a degree of sympathy and empathy towards them that I just never feel towards later villain organizations in the series. I mean yes there are some individual characters in later villain organizations that I feel sympathy and empathy for but the organizations themselves as a whole, I never really had that happen again after Team Rocket. I also want to say that just because Slowpoke tails can grow back that doesn't mean them getting them cut off for profit is any better. It is still a horrific thing for them to be put through. Would you like to get one of your limbs chopped off if you could grow it back simply because you could grow it back? I'm pretty sure the answer is no. While I am in agreement that more could've been done with Archer I think it is important to remember he isn't actually a big bad thus while it might make the climax of the story "boring" by comparison to the climax of other stories in the Pokemon games series it makes perfectly fine sense. There is a difference between a bad story and a story that bores you or that you find dull rather than interesting. A lot of the story beats of the Johto region games are too impersonal for the player character for them to be incorporated in a linear way as is the case with most every region's story going forward in the timeline of Pokemon games by chronological release. Your player has no connections to Silver, Giovanni, or any of the Team Rocket executives and other higher ups, including Archer. Thus you stumbling into their conflict makes sense and a lot of what is even going on with them is left to your imagination, but they give you enough to work with to draw a full conclusion. Instead of telling you the story of Jack and the Beanstalk you're wandering the pages of a storybook version of it experiencing it in real time engaging with it only when you feel like it outside of two fixed points. And I will take that approach over the hand-holding approaches of the Unova region games or the Alola region games any day of the year even if those regions have more compelling stories to tell overall (I actually don't believe they do, one is the story of a sweet guy who got played like a fiddle and one is the story of a woman preoccupied and obsessed with beauty (color me severely underwhelmed), and her often more annoying than they're worth children, Lillie especially).
Just a small reminder that the gen 2 games were planned to be that last in the series. So keep that in mind for some of the negatives like Team Rocket. It was supposed to serve as a conclusion to their story as opposed to a whole new story and they couldn't exactly change that in the remakes because then it wouldn't be a remake it would just be a new johto game. Atleast they added some stuff to fix some loose ends like the Celebi event. Also, I think the disconnect feeling was a choice game freak made to make it known that this isn't the same team rocket as the one in Kanto. They don't have a leader anymore they are scrambling to maintain their presence. Some are selling slowpoke tails, others are trying to create a machine to forcefully evolve pokemon, while some more are trying to get in contact with their boss that abandoned them in the hopes that he can bring back some order. I do agree that they could of showed up some more though.
I think that's a pretty intriguing way to look at it and it makes their actions in the game make more sense and forgivable. Still though they could've made the player feel more invested in their quest to back into prominence by again, having them show up more or give us a villain at least half as interesting as Giovanni to try and stop us. Archer severely brings down Team Rocket in these games to make them feel so worthless
@theglasshalffull6958 yeah I definitely agree with you. They could have showed much more events with team rocket and did alot more with archer and the other admins for sure while maintaining the thought process of what I said above.
Fully agree with your post + I'd like to add that Archer didn't have an own name or theme, because it was still Giovanni being the main boss. And the main boss was missing, that was part of the story of G/S. And honestly I think it is fine, because Giovannis absence still had enough impact on the story itself (like Team Rocket struggling to stay relevant). I personally wish they would have done more with Silver in that regard. I hardly disagree with GSC having the worst story. Sure it's not the best one either (given pokemon at that time didnt focus so much on story...), but as a sequel to R/B/G its totally solid I think.
@@cpmc1164 The Pokemon Company President, Tsunekazu Ishihara, has been speaking about the series with Nintendo In the latest "Iwata Asks" feature on the official Nintendo site: "I worked with the assumption that after we put out Gold and Silver, my work as far as Pokémon was concerned would be done, I didn't intend to make any more Pokémon titles. I even thought that once we entered the twenty-first century, it would be time for me to do something else entirely. I remember that when Gold and Silver were released, I felt like a burden had finally been lifted from my shoulders. We'd had our sights set on the finish line of Gold and Silver for so long, and now that we'd finally completed the major series running right through from Red and Blue, I felt I could say to Tajiri-san: "I've fulfilled my duty!" Once we'd released Gold and Silver and it was selling even faster than Red and Green, I couldn't very well get off the ride halfway through saying: "Nice work everyone. Good luck from here on in!" That's a copy and paste from the interview.
Well, now, there’s 3 johto mons in the gym challenge, Clair has a Kingdra. Still absolutely terrible though. Also, I think it’s very smart to have a handful of mons only available late in the postgame (I like misdreavus being so rare and not in any gym leader’s team… it woulda been awesome if, yknow, it didn’t suck.) And, as someone who only played Silver a few years back, I must say, it’s legendaries and story are… actually pretty solid. I love the way it’s legendaries are treated. They are gods, why should they give a shit about what some losers are doing in a radio tower? They are so far above humanity that they don’t really have time to meddle in their affairs, existing in only passing whispers of a handful of people, and the lingering, momentary effects of their individual action, which in it of themselves become legends to whisper about. The only way one can possibly find them is by going far out of their way, and descending an ancient, hidden cavern, until the guardian finally reveals itself. Until the legend finally becomes true. I think the legend not showing up in the story further adds to the story. Team rocket here isn’t supposed to be a threat. They are SUPPOSED to be pathetic, that is the point. The gen 2 games have a very strong emphasis on tradition, from the kimono girls to the architecture to the everything else. However, team rocket here serves as a dark representation of a bad clinging to the past, a twisted version of tradition. Their dark goals fail to truly be threatening, and their desperation to return to how things once were prevent them from truly being a threat (from using the radio tower to brainwash pokemon as they could’ve). If the legendaries showed up, it would’ve both made the legendaries feel less legendary, and would’ve given more threat to team rocket here, and made them and their clinging appear more legitimate, but they aren’t supposed to. The game’s entire point is balancing tradition, and advancement. Notice how the second half of the game takes place in Kanto, a much more technologically advanced region compared to the traditional Johto (it’s key legendary being a messed up result of overwhelming, dangerous scientific ambition by team rocket) . Meanwhile, Johto is the new region, kanto the old. In other words, it’s a 50/50 balance between tradition and technology, new and old… you see what I’m trying to say? Also in what world is silver one of the best rivals. Bro is literally the worst one what. And, the johto games weren’t made to stand on their own. They were made to be sequels to kanto. This was before the entire idea existed of different regions and whatnot, they weren’t meant to be wiped, different areas entirely, they were meant to be sequels, not just in the same franchise. They work well as sequels, and build off each other’s ideas as two sides of the same coin. Team rocket flips in how it functions between the two games to be a core part of the game’s themes taken to a dangerous, twisted level. The ambitions of science, progress, and desire taken to a level that defies nature and creates an abomination, followed by the connections to the past, care for traditions, and care for those who and what has come before you leading to a desperate, pathetic clinging to a man who has long moved on to do something else, long matured past bothering with such crime after being embarrassed by a child, a desperate clinging to a past long gone, no matter who is hurt along the way.
This is a pretty detailed look at your perspective of these games, and it does slightly make me look at the legendaries at a different way. However, I still would’ve liked to have some sort of lore/build up for the legendaries, again Ho-oh has something going on with the burned tower and legendary beasts but Lugia is mentioned very offhandedly and I hate how disconnected they feel from the rest of the game. I don’t think that they needed to be essential for team rockets sake. And speaking of, yeah, I can see why Gamefreak wanted to portray them as pathetic, with their leader gone they feel lost and only try to mimic what made them so successful before but MAN having the admins be such lousy and forgetful antagonists made me really not care about whatever sort of “plot” going on. With how infrequently they show up made me not see their perspective as much as the game wanted us to feel. Especially with how boring the main villain in archer was. Only showing up once and being such a forgetful character. If they gave him more screen time and maybe give him some kind of struggle to at least make him more memorable could’ve went a long way to show how far team rockets has fallen over the last 3 years. Also very curious to see your reason as to why you think silver is one of the worst villains? One of the biggest consensus about these games is that Silver was a great rival/had a good character arc
"You can go to Kanto". So that's why people like Tokyo so much. Being more serious, I *COULD* share the excitement of returning, and I do... until the level threshold is either do a "challenge run" or stop for days or weeks to be strong enough to be on even field. And of course that buries the whole appeal in gen 2 and does the same in gen 4.
Gen 2 at least the novelty of being the only games thus far that allows you to go back to a past region. If a future installment does it and in a better way, I can see people going back and criticizing the HGSS post game more
I've never played the original Heart gold and soul silver I've always played the rom hacks Sacred gold and storm silver which after watching parts of this video made me realize that that from hack while making the game more diverse and difficult it legit added quality of life changes like making stone evolutions and evolutions for the johto pokemon way more accessible via Pokeathelon and such
I know there's a bunch of roms out there that try to change up the original games in anyway they could. Most of them just try to make the original games more difficult, but some of them really push the boundaries and sometimes become the better way to experience those games, like radical red (even though it's really fucking hard)
I was able to get to the first Giovanni fight but completely gave up after it, maybe I'll get back to it one day but the game was literally making me lose my sanity
@theglasshalffull6958 that and most are just either difficult to find or not available til end game. Can't tell you how irritated I was that I couldn't have a Houndoom on my team for my playthrough because for some godforsaken reason it's only available in one route in Kanto
I posted a comment similar to this on a different video a while back, but even in a video like this, which criticizes HGSS for not being "as great as the fandom makes it out to be" and even mentions at some point that ORAS butchered Wattson's team after Emerald had fixed it - it's very, very disappointing to see ORAS praised as the model remake when in reality it suffers many of the same issues as BDSP (and I guess HGSS too, based on this video). I will say that I played through both remakes as a kid, when they came out, and while I enjoyed HGSS when I played it, I remember feeling mostly an overarching sense of disillusionment while playing ORAS. In regards to the butchering Wattson's team part, one issue with ORAS is that the enemy trainers are remained almost completely unchanged from not even Emerald, but the easier (aside from Route 110 Rival) base Ruby/Sapphire battles. Meanwhile, the player character has been powercrept exponentially in terms of the tools they have been given and the in-game learnsets of the Pokemon they're able to catch, making for a game that is mind-numbingly and forgettably easy. All of the Megas, and character redesigns are just as you describe Lysandre in XY - they're oozing with *aura*, but that fresh coat of paint doesn't really disguise the fact that they're lacking in /substance/. I think that Wally's development and presentation is the exception, one of the few objective upgrades of ORAS over the original RSE that isn't just graphics. I didn't think much of the soaring mechanic when it was originally introduced, but the way everyone on the internet has been glazing the original "laggy glitchy 3D" mechanic, especially in the era of Scarlet and Violet, has quickly turned it into the "but you can go to Kanto" of ORAS defenses. Sure, it's flashy, and cool, and awesome the first few times you do it, and it's cool to finally see the entire Hoenn region fully modeled as you're flying over it, but that excitement quickly wears off, and once you gain the ability to Fly normally (which for some reason the game decides to give you AFTER soaring) you just end up using that instead because the animation time and lagginess of soaring makes Flying much faster and more convenient. I never even used the Dexnav because I didn't really see a point to it - it ruined the experience of exploring areas for a new, potentially rare Pokemon when I have a device that tells me exactly what lives in that area and whether or not I've already seen it, but I feel like you could interchange criticisms with it and how HGSS handled the Safari Zone and call that even. The salt about the Battle Frontier is much deeper than it initially appears given the context in which the game was released: Gen 6 was the first generation to make raising a competitive-level Pokemon something relatively /easy/ to do in game, with new breeding mechanics, Super Training, etc. so for a lot of people, including myself, XY were the first games where they tried their hand battling competitively on some level. As I mentioned before, ORAS is difficulty scaled to the original Ruby/Sapphire, so what's the point of giving players access to all of these overpowered tools that allow them to effortlessly stomp the main campaign... and then *not* giving them a place to properly put them to the test afterwards? It really felt like a slap in the face at the time, and the fact that it's set a precedent for a lack of postgame battle areas afterward is disappointing to say the least. Also side note, us dungeonheads are absolutely terrified of Ledian. That thing will kill you like tiger star in the warrior cat books with agility + silver wind
Alright maybe I went in a little too hard with the praise for ORAS, and it's making me realize that a lot of the critiques that were there for BDSP such as "not adding enough from platinum" can also apply to ORAS since it "didn't add enough from Emerald." Since those games are essentially just souped up/definitive versions of the Hoenn and Sinnoh games and it really is confusing that Gamefreak would use essentially worse versions as a basis of a remake but I digress. I will say that the soaring mechanic might be a more opininated thing, I remember loving it back then and would always love to soar to locations rather than flying (even though it is by far less time consuming) just because I liked soaring throughout Hoenn in the sky, plus finding all the ultra wormholes in the post-game was a huge plus. And yes, the exclusion of the battle frontier is unfortunate, and it's a shame that entire feature is essentially locked behind 20 year old games, and while I liked what they gave us instead with the Delta episode, I think if given the option to choose between having the delta episode or a battle frontier, they would most likely choose the latter. You enjoy the battle frontier btw? Or is it something you never really cared about
@@theglasshalffull6958 Yeah I would definitely say a common thread for BDSP and ORAS criticisms is that they are pretty explicitly not remakes of Platinum or Emerald. I honestly don't remember enough of the Delta Episode to have a strong opinion on it - I think it might be carried by like the wish fulfillment of the "using the space center to go to space" rumor but I feel like there's a lot of deep lore in there that just gets brought up and never really expanded on? idk I always thought the battle frontier was cool as a kid in both Gen 3 and Gen 4, but didn't have the competitive knowledge to really maintain a win streak or earn any symbols. So when Game Freak made competitive so much more accessible in Gen 6, and then remade the region the battle frontier is native to, including it as a final, optional postgame challenge area seemed more like the natural, logical conclusion rather than something that "fans are just butthurt about and were dumb to expect because it was never an Emerald remake". For what it's worth though, I've played through Perfect Emerald (romhack) into the battle frontier as an adult and I find it holds up. A fair bit of it is just running things over with choice band tauros but playing around some of the gimmicks or janky NPC strategies can be pretty fun imo.
I guess in some aspects in what I value in a Pokémon game is why I rated ORAS so highly. There’s definitely aspects of it that I wish were improved on and since playing BDSP which is such a lousy remake I look at ORAS in a much better way. Again HGSS are really good remakes. But I moreso try to get across that people think they’re absolutely perfect and look at ORAS as inferior when I feel like that is such a weird conclusion
I understand that end bit perfectly. I was late to the series and started with x and y. Which are pretty flawed and super easy. But- I didn't care about that! I still cherish my Yveltal and Delphox. I thought the megas were cool. I didn't notice the flaws until years later. All that mattered was the experience I cherished when I was younger. I look past its flaws because it was my first generation. It being my first experience is what mattered to me. And I think that's fine
Glad someone was able to relate to the end message so well! I feel like no matter how much we think a certain Pokémon/any game for that matter is flawed, it will never take away how we felt about them when we first experienced them, and in no way should people try to diminish how much they meant for you back then. I’m also someone who loved XY, despite how much missed potential there was
I don't think it was laziness to not include Johto Pokémon in gym teams because it's a conscious decision when putting the teams together that they actively would have to make My guess is they wanted the Johto ganes to feel like a natural extension to the Kanto ones and wanted the Johto Pokémon to feel more special or unique
I don't know, making Johto Pokemon feel "unique" in the region they come from just doesn't feel very immersive. If they want Johto to feel like a lived in region having it stand out more from it's counterpart is completely necessary and since gyms are such big parts of Pokemon games. Having them stand out less the way they are now feels pretty lame
Special or not it doesn't change the fact that a lot of the johto pokemon are weak even outside of competive. That not even going over the pokemon that were screwed cause of the pre physical special split
@@theglasshalffull6958 eh most of Johto is pretty laid back even in monster design A lot of them are based on regular animals from the IRL areas or have a more naturalistic feel I don't think Johto or its monsters were meant to be super bombastic for the most part, more or less just being a relatable area and a low-key feeling bookend to the games When you look deeper into it it seems more like they just wanted to make a big love letter to that part of Japan with that game rather than trying to keep a billion dollar franchise engine going
True, but BDSP was literally *the bare minimum* a remake could do, many fans including myself expected a fully 3D remake of Diamond and Pearl similar to Sword and Shield in terms of art direction. The disappointment we had when we first saw the trailer truly was immeasurable. With that being said however, HGSS were definitely flawed, something Gen 4 fanboys cannot seem to admit. One of the biggest issues of the original GSC titles, the level curve could've been fixed very easily by HGSS, but I'm genuinely baffled by how GF didn't think of fixing that when almost every other aspect of the game was improved in the remakes.
@ i generally prefer playing BDSP as the main of playing Gen 4, but not a fan of the style bar the lighting. The grand underground was really fun and gave more pokemon to use and the elite 4 was great for me
Well HGSS is still LEAGUES better than whatever BDSP was. So it's hard not to look at HGSS a lot more fondly over the years since it does people were so disappointed with BDSP. Therefore not taking it's flaws more seriously
I would definitely rather play BDSP over the original DP if given the option... but if we add Platinum into the mix than I'd immediately go for that anyday over BDSP
I'm no game developer but like you said it's so baffling that Gamefreak STILL didn't feel like fixing the level curve when it was such an easy fix for them. Literally just some minor tweaks and one HUGE issue is solved.
For Jasmine's gym not having trainers or a puzzle, I actually really don't mind (given that the other gyms should be a lot less lazy as they are). As you helped her so much in the story and she just wants to give you the badge as easy as possible as a thank you, works for me canonically.
I've seen people say that about Jasmine and her gym and honestly I respect it. But idk for me literally having nothing in her gym still feels like a cop-out, especially considering how late in the game her gym is
GSC were supposed to be like "What activity am I going to engage in today?" Not the "What story is the game going to force down my throat!?" Approach that most Pokemon games do nowadays. That's why the legendaries are optional in GSC vs. being mandatory.
People get mad they don't know how to play the game and blame the game. The fact people don't get that Tyrantiar is a reward and shouldn't be given in dark cave pre badge one is absolutely insane.
I still love Pokemon HGSS despite the game's flaws, The good about it really outweigh the bad imo, I'm still very glad this game is a fan favorite in the Pokemon community and many people still love it, I think it deserves it despite it's flaws. A 10/10 score for a game doesn't mean it's completely flawless, Every game has it's faults, 10/10 I think just means it's a masterpiece that you love it so much that it's flaws don't ruin the experience for you. My favorite Pokemon game ever is Platinum, And even I admit that game has some issues that people overlook.
Pokemon HGSS are definitely still great games no doubt about it, but I still made this video because I feel like a lot of it's flaws are constantly overlooked especially when it's flaws are something that's critisced in other Pokemon games
Idk if any of these “issues” are things people were somehow unaware of but they are fair critiques but I and it seems like many others still like HG/SS more than any other game in the series
People often say that Johto was just an expansion to Kanto, and while I see what they mean it still doesn't excuse the their flaws and how underbaked they feel compared to other regions
@@theglasshalffull6958I think that it mostly excuses Gold and Silver especially since there was zero precedent of a “new region” or even a new generation going into that gen. But HGSS’s shortcomings are much less defensible
@theglasshalffull6958 i finished with at least a new appreciation for meganium.. because yeah it sucks but nostalgia tho.. i feel like your criticisms are valid, however my biased opinion is still weighing the pros over the grievances you presented.. i was 12 years old when i got to experience my chosen pocket monster to follow me.. they even made gyarados big af i think.. and that alone keeps me locked into positive overview of the gen2 remakes. (Crystal was my first game too).... so in closing yeah this was bullshit but i dont think everyone else will agree with me..
I mean HGSS was one of my first Pokemon games as well but I still wanted to give it all the necessary criticism I think they deserve. Still good games tho And hey if you found some kind of appreciation for Meganium then I think I’ve successfully completed my job
I try my best to respond to any comment I get, I mean if you took time out of your day to respond than I wanted to do the same (Also thanks for the subscribe dude much appreciated 🙏🏻)
Yknow, every time I see someone criticize hgss, I always see other fans dogging on the person who don’t think hgss is a gift from god. That’s why I always say “don’t fuck with Pokémon fans. We won’t respect your opinion if it’s different.”
Try being a person in the Pokemon community who genuinely enjoys playing Scarlet and Violet. If you praise SV at all in conversation: "But it's a buggy mess!" "It runs at -3 FPS!" "You're a Nintendo shill!"
Trust me I actually really liked scarlet and violet despite its glaring flaws, and whenever I tried to praise those games in some way in my other video I got a bunch of comments telling me that I’m just coping/a gamefreak apologist
@Wheeler07 me being an SV enjoyer seeing so many people that want to bring back 2D despite me being hugely against it And also like every conversation being about the graphics or performance and not anything else
@@Tierd Yeah it really sucks that all people want to talk about is the graphics. Meanwhile SV has arguably the best story in the series' history. Not to mention very enjoyable gameplay.
I’ve seen people refer to them as the “legendary dogs” sometimes so I decided to call them that here. Although I guess your right, the beasts aren’t very dog like when I really think about it
As a fan of Crystal I didn't like HGSS that much when it came out, it felt like a downgrade from Platinum and in some ways even from DP. Many of the character redesigns were horrible too, it wasn't as bad as ORAS but the Johto region was special to me so I was hoping for something better. Honestly, the only Pokémon remake that was good is FRLG.
After seeing some comments regarding how people view ORAS and BDSP it made me realize that Gamefreak takes a really weird step backwards with remakes in that they recreate what’s essentially inferior versions of those regions. Emerald and Platinum are essentially just definitive versions of their predecessors in which most Pokémon fans can agree that the third versions are better, then when it comes to their remakes they take away many aspects people thought should’ve been included because of how good their third versions are. FRLG isn’t really included since there wasn’t really a third version to those games (except for yellow but that barely counts)
There's a lot of fans out there who only play for the competitive scene, shiny hunting or... just casual senseless fun and in that sense a lot of my critiques doesn't really matter for them lol
@theglasshalffull6958 agreed. I dread playing through the game again. The shit that pisses me off the most is the level disparity from the wild mons and trainers because grinding becomes a fucking pain
Oddly enough they say these games are made for kids but I promise in my lifetime I have yet to see a kid or friends kids playing pokemon, watching pokemon, buying pokemon toy, playing the TCG, or collecting them.
Every time I go to my local card store for Pokemon singles, there's a small-ish child looking at them with their parent too, and it's the kid who wants the cards c: Last summer, I also got self-repackaged TCG mystery packs being sold by a boy at a garage sale, and they were wrapped in colored construction paper with printed out pokeballs on printer paper taped to them. I bought all of them from him because I was tickled, and they were all filled with... pretty much trash cards LOL including two that were straight up fakes made out of weird plastic with all text in the wrong font.
I think I’ve come across kids here and there playing Pokémon, but not as much as you may think. Perhaps most parents tell their kids to keep their switch’s at home when they go out but I’m not a parent so I can’t say for sure Pokémon is definitely targeted towards kids but Gamefreak is definitely aware of how many older fans there are as well.
@@Dokkiish That sounds awesome! But I'm just wondering why it's so rare where I am and none of my friends' kids even mention Pokémon even though their parents are huge fans.
@@toxicmelody6228 I feel like Pokemon can be one of those things that gets cycled out when kids go through their phase of wanting to grow up and seen more grown up, which seems to be happening earlier and earlier now, but there's also more competition for IPs that kids may latch onto in this day and age compared to much older times when Pokemon capitalized on the scarcer variety in the games market. The influence of other kids at school I bet affects your area since if Pokemon isn't "in" at the playground/lunch table, then it's harder to keep interest if none of your friends want to talk about/play with you O: many variables as to why, but at least the franchise isn't dying :D
Well it's funny because even by the time I turned 9 years old I already saw a lot of my friends at the time call Pokemon childish and would rather play Call of Duty or something along those lines. So Who know's how much parents are keeping track of what kids are playing nowadays. Honestly I'm moreso curious to see what percent of Pokemon fans lie under kids, teens and adults because from what I see I feel like a lot more adults play Pokemon rather than kids
I do agree with most of critiques of Johto, however I think the fairest comparision is not what came after, but FRLG. Their point is pretty much "hey it's Kanto, but now the mechanics work", the pokedex is even more limited (yes I'm still pissed that you need a national dex to get Crobat) and they also don't add a lot to the story. HGSS follow the same philosophy: they've followed the og games and added or expanded everything that already existed. Kanto? Check. Rematches? Check. Suicune plot? Check. Walking pokemon from Yellow? CHECK. HGSS got a little more freedom to add stuff in remakes, but still plays it super safe. Adressing 37:17 the spiteful feel is not having lacking a battle frontier, but THE Battle Frontier, the thing the people who played the same game for idk how many years wanted to see in a new gen, in the same way HGSS did to its crystal stuff (and the walking pokemon from yellow)
Damn I never knew that FRLG never actually included evolutions of Kanto Pokemon into the game, feels like a weird missed opportunity. But I guess a lot of people just liked the act that the games weren't super buggy AND was modernized enough (at least you can actually Run now lol) And yes I still understand the frustrations of not having a battle frontier, and it makes me wonder why didn't Gamefreak just decide to remake the superior version in Emerald (which can also be said for BDSP as well)
@@theglasshalffull6958 to clarify, FRLG had the evolutions, but even if you had the conditions to evolve (crobat being the easiest example) they're locked out until Oak gives you the National dex in the post game. Both games do the locking items behind the post game like you've pointed out, but HGSS at least added the pokemon that evolve by knowing a move (mamoswine, ambipom, etc) to the johto dex to make it less of an issue. I think the remaking two game is the same vibe of making two versions in the first place (and possibly more money? If the same person buys 2 games), what baffles me is not taking upgrades from third versions like platinum dex (haven't played BDSP, so that's all I know that they've missed)
6:15 me complaining about Houndout still not being able to be caught in game until after the league for the last 12 years. The cop out response given by Nintendo being "because we want to stop game renting, its cutting into our profits." This is why FireRed and Leaf green BS is carried over into Gen 4.
Houndour isn't even like a sudo-legendary or supposed to a rare Pokemon, so it confuses me even more that something like it or a misdreavus HAD to only be available after the game
30:50 honestly i'm totally down for spectacle over story. i don't think JRPGs or RPGs have a good story if they can wow you with the visuals or art direction of a game. maybe bc im a comic book/novel reader, but if i wanted a bunch of dialogue id just read the Pokemon manga or a fanfic. I prefer the ability to explore a beautiful world with a mediocre story rather than being strapped to a Clockwork Orange chair to read thru SM or USUM.
This was an interesting piece of lore I wasn't aware about before, and really gives context to how underutilized the Johto Pokemon were in the original games. and is something that could've really been fixed when the remakes came out but alas, was left unchanged. You mind explaining where exactly you've seen this? I've never heard about it until now
I enjoyed HGSS and Crystal like I can enjoy a regular Pokémon game. But I always felt like there's a lot missing or feels random or sometimes even boring in the Johto games as a kid. The only real good thing that stood out to me was the representation of culture and lore. And the music of course, which is typical for Pokémon games. But from the level-curve, having two regions (which was necessary because Johto is way too small and post-game Kanto was rushed), the unrelated/unimportant Team Rocket or the lack of variety of Gen2 Pokémon, these games always were one of my least favorite games, generations and regions (only Kanto [because of the Kanto-pushing in every fkn generation and it made me feel annoyed over the years] and Galar are worse to me). For the positive aspects, I could see and respect why Johto is the favorite region for some people and the legendaries are phenomenal but there are so much things that they should've fixed already in HGSS.
Damn is the grammar of the title actually wrong? I put the title into quill or so I thought it was fine but maybe I’m just worse at the English language than I thought lmao
Pokémon HeartGold and SoulSilver are the best classic pokemon games of all time. However I consider Pokemon Legends Arceus the best pokemon game of all time, since they really did went beyond to introduce the most unique mechanics in entire franchise, and the historical setting is really something else. Ps. This comes from a fan that played the original Pokemon Silver, and Gold games when they came out. Also getting the trade evolutions mechanics suck, and Pokemon Legends Arceus earns a lot of points in my opinion for get riding of this mechanics.
When you say classic do you mean every Pokémon game that was made in 2D? Because I think black/white, Black2/White2 and platinum can give them a good run for their money. however, saying that legends arceus is the best Pokémon game of all time is an interesting take but.. I might be inclined to agree with you. Idk I need to really think about it but Legends Arceus is definitely up there imo
@@bacd-nn2lg and visiting 2 regions means jack when one region sucks, and the other is a downgrade of one that most people have already visited. Hoenn, Sinnoh and Unova, among others, are better regions than Johto and the downgraded Kanto combined
HGSS glazing is a bit too common I never really understood the praise. It fixed barely anything And added so much I only saw it as quantity over quality.
A lot of fan’s priorities content/gameplay over everything else tbf, and if a non-Pokémon were to ask me which Pokémon game would give them the most bang for their buck id probably go with HGSS, even tho there is a lot flaws about it
While i had fun with hgss, i feel like there was nothing else to do after you beat Red. And yeah, this is coming from someone who never really played them growing up. It just got annoying hearing people saying that this is the best game ever but after you're done, there's no real side quests or anything else to go back to. Unless you're competitive i guess but, I'm not. I could care less about the battle frontier. Edit: when I made this, didn't know there were other areas to catch other legendaries Also fun fact, i got a shiny suicine via soft resetting in both oras and ultra sun while watching this. So i guess thanks for the shiny boost. Also why do people call them legendary dogs? 1 is a sabertooth cat, one is more dog like and the other... I'm not sure what Entei is so legendary beasts seems more fitting. I guess you can argue that the leaked beta sprites of them are dogs but not now.
Well I will say that Red is the ultimate final boss which comes after getting all 16 gym badges and exploring every area of johto and kanto, so I felt pretty satisfied content-wise after beating Red, so I will defend the games in that aspect if nothing less. Also regarding the whole legendary dogs thing, back in the day I remember people called them the legendary dogs because it was a mistranslation and were actually supposed to be called the "legendary beasts" but for some reason that epithet stuck with me all this time so I instinctively called them that in the video.
Really?? I can see the argument for crystal but I don't really get how the remakes are inferior to the originals, graphically and performance wise I don't see a good reason to play them over HGSS, so why do you think that?
I feel like a lot of this video is spent comparing Johto against standards set by later games. Gold and Silver were created with a totally different design philosophy than anything after, because it's a true sequel to Kanto. For example, the entire Team Rocket section just left me saying "that's the point" to basically every argument. Team Rocket IS a poor group of leftovers pining for Giovanni. Their leader is literally a nobody. That's why it's so great, lol. It was so strange to me seeing it presented as a negative. I guess I'm someone who doesn't think ever Pokemon game needs a large scale main villain... Johto Pokemon being rare in Johto is part of why I grew so attached to many of them. Skarmory being in one specific late game location made it a very memorable encounter for me. It wouldn't be the same if they were all over the place, lol. The Kanto commons returning back as the Johto commons was a matter of course. Those creatures were all we knew, and it's not like a gym leader has to use Johto Pokemon... The Johto gyms just covered the rest of the typings not done in Kanto after all.
You definitely view these games in a much more different light than I do I guess. I understand that Team Rocket is filled with a bunch of misfits and without their leader they can't really function on their own but in no way does the game tries to make me care about whatever they're up to. If they had a leader that at least showed up more than one time maybe I could've cared more but as it stands them and they're endeavours feel pretty pointless. And for sure the game is able to have their rare Pokemon for sure, but when so many Johto Pokemon are only available in like 1 place found after you beat the game (where you'd most likely already have a full team of 6) it just feels like a pretty weird design choice when one of the biggest appeals of a new Pokemon game is finding out what new creatures there are for you to catch. Not finding ones you're already used to seeing from before
HGSS were my second favorite games in the entire series for YEARS...... until I went back to play it again this year and found out about the Shiny stone. Cuz that's CRAZY.
It’s such an insane fact that I cannot believe people haven’t caught onto sooner. Like fuck it’s almost like Gamefreak is begging you to just box your togepi while you can
I'll say a big maybe, sorta wanted to see how well this video would perform first. Ngl the only generation I have an incentive to talk about would be gen 7 but idk what exactly I'm gonna do next
Maybe goated for a Johto game, but it's much weaker than most other mainline titles. Y'all Johto fans are blinded by nostalgia and can't accept constructive criticism even when it's in your face (like this video)
Actually the reason for Lugia is cause he created the storm to stop the second tower aka the silver tower that Lugia lived at. that we know as the burning Tower from burning up the fuckin dogs as his storm an power was to much for humans to deal with hence why he stay at whirl island to quell his power an to find someone who is capable of with standing his power aka the protagonist 30:19 An yes ho-oh did bring the legandary doggo back but it was only cause he felt bad that three doggo died due to Lugia uncontrollable power is how you can look at it but it kinda just explained a lot of you really just look at the burnt tower in general
But ye I do agree with some of your point just remember that Lugia an ho-oh represent what they are Ho-oh had a heart of gold an care about lives hence why he brought the doggo back kindness Lugia care about not hurting anyone with his power of the weather a soul of silver a pure an noble thing to understand If anything yes I do think the whole team rocket thing was pretty badly done an they could of at least given us way to get certain pokemon evolution through that way like idk around the third gym badge you could of went to Ecruteak city an as you went to the kimono girls first show you could of sat down. An watch it but suddenly a group of team rocket people would barrage in an try to steal the kimono girls to make them dance an bring back the legandary maybe you could of battle them all off from each kimono girl the reason they barrage in is because archer heard of the story's of the burnt tower an Wanted the legendary himself AT LEAST IT GIVE him a purpose!?! A way to make him rememberable..... An don't get me started on the gym leaders......just give the flying gym leader a dam yanma an a under level no towel Gamefreak: "OH BUT WE CAN'T-" That didn't stop y'all from giving him a lv 9 PIGEOTTO!?! Look I still love jotho cuz of the music the atmosphere an stuff an the story even tho it trash- I just
Thanks! As always I put a lot of time into every video I make, and seeing people recognize my efforts will always make all that effort I put in worth it :)
I dont think the pokemon community will ever TRULY come to a mutual agreement on which game is worst or best. since alot of that ties into what that person fav pokemon or rival character is. at least in my experience. I'm 100% guilty of it myself. my fav gens are gen 2, gen 8 and gen 9. some of my fav pokemon are eevee, miraidon, zacian typhlosion, cubone, entei... my fav rivals are Silver, Bede and Kieran. you see the pattern lol I'm sure most people who favor gen 2 have fav pokemon or fav trainers from that gen and that applies to other regions too.
Pokemon by nature is a really nostalgia-based series for sure, whichever game you played first will 100% play a role in how fondly you'll remember them. But having said that I'm surprised your favourite gens are so far apart from each other. Well at least jumping from gen 2 all the way to gen 8 is surprising to me at least. Any specific reasons for that?
It's a big reason, but that's just a cute feature. Nothing more If people think pressing A on a following sprite is riveting, then they have a poor concept of what makes good gameplay
@@theglasshalffull6958 oh I don't disagree with how charming cute features can be. They can definitely make a game memorable That said, cute features don't automatically make a game good or better than others
Which Pokemon game do you think deserves MORE hate??
Brilliant Pearl, Shining Diamond. No question.
So mid I confused the names, whoops
@@user-RJr8twyNIt's all good. They don't deserve your respect 😂
Sword and shield
Scarlett and violet
Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl without a doubt
You can be critical of something and still enjoy it, and that's a message that more people need to understand. Thanks for making this video, Glass. I think your point with this video is far more important than you could have ever realized :)
100%, there's a weird notion nowadays that if you criticize some a piece of media for whatever reason, it's automatically bad, when that can't be further from the case. HGSS are still very good/great games but are very far from flawless, and I think more people need to realize that
@@theglasshalffull6958I think Gen 5 fans need the flaws of Black and White pointed out. Guarantee you won't get the same reception
@@elijahbruno2814Gen 5 isn't my favourite, but I've noticed than gen 2 fans tend to be far more dismissive of and offended by any criticisms of the games they deem as perfect. Gen 5 fans can point out flaws in BW, but HGSS is seemingly nothing short of perfect
@@PMar797 I disagree. Black and White 2 is considered the pinnacle with HGSS being a close second you can't criticize BW2 anytime you do Gen 5 fans attack relentlessly even if you have valid points. I've seen more Gen 2 fans criticize Gen 2 than anything
@@elijahbruno2814 clearly you haven't been around the community for the past decade. Gen 2 fanboys literally berate and talk down anyone who has any valid criticisms of GSC and especially HGSS and can't accept that those games aren't nearly as good as they've led themselves to believe. I've been a victim of these insane people
Even though Emerald is my favourite game in the series, I can see why BW2 are the best games in the franchise, but I have no problem seeing and pointing out the issues they have. Gen 5 fans can be defensive at times, but by and large they don't disagree
Also there's no way HGSS are the second best Pokemon games. They're a pain to play through and aren't even in the top 5 lol
I think The Lighthouse is meant to be the stand in for Jasmine's "gym challenge"
I can sorta see where your coming from? But the trainers in the lighthouse don't use steel Pokemon and there's not really any puzzle in it, just go up a bunch of floors and call it a day.
Although I won't stop you from believing that's the case
@@theglasshalffull6958 Specifically because there isn't a steel used by any of the NPCs
That's just how some gyms were designed back when gen 2 came out. They were simple and barebones. They wanted to remain faithful to core elements of the original such as the gym designs@@theglasshalffull6958
Well it's a weak, slow and overall terrible stand in of a "gym challenge"
Quite indicative of the games themselves
One element about the original GSC that I feel like has been forgotten is that the 100 pokemon we now know as "Johto Pokemon" or "Gen 2 Pokemon" were originally explained as pokemon that were discovered in the 3 year gap between the events of generations 1 and 2. The likely thought process was that most trainers didn't use these pokemon as they don't yet know that they exist. It also explains why many of these pokemon are either rare or have unique encounter/evolution methods. If they were easily discovered by simply walking in grass, they would have been discovered before the events of gen 1. Of course after it was decided that pokemon would continue indefinitely after gen 2, saying that ~100 pokemon are discovered every few years isn't sustainable. This was retconed and the logic of introducing new pokemon turned into pokemon that were first discovered in the region the new games take place in. The remakes had to rewrite the Johto region for this logic but most pokemon kept their old encounter methods and enemies kept their old teams but now there's no in universe reason for why they barely use these pokemon or why they are so rare in Johto and Kanto. There are even some leftover dialogue from the original games that weren't removed like a person saying that Elm discovered that Pikachu was an evolved pokemon even though you could have gotten a Pichu in the kanto remakes.
The Pikachu line was actually updated to say that Elm was the first person to discover this fact, showing that it's not new information, but that he made the original discovery regardless.
(Although that doesn't make sense anymore thanks to Legends Arceus 😅)
This plus the Johto and Kanto real world counterparts are literally next door.
Not an excuse to make them so difficult to encounter, many of them in the post game to the point that they're unusable on anyone's teams. It's just bad game design - plain and simple
Tbh, you calling Johto's Team Rocket Giovanni glazers is a rare sentence I've never heard but glad I did now.
I can see why lol, but hey people don't say it enough so I had to take it upon myself to call out Team Rocket for who they really are
@theglasshalffull6958 i love it from a critical standpoint and a humor standpoint, like their grand plan is so weak they have to bring back their old boss who got his ass beat by minor to get them supposedly back on track, it's hilarious-
Gen 2 was more like gen 1.5. It was realistically an additional gen 1 game with new mons… Gen 3 is where it’s more into a new game
I can somewhat see that take, since those games are supposed to be direct sequels... but man gamefreak could've tried a little harder to make Johto stand out on their own more
@ How Johto was presented compared to how the games were was disappointing, we had the Celebi movie and the Entei and Unknown movies that could’ve expanded the legendaries in the game, realistically they were focused on Kanto and the Anime more than Johto and HG/SS could’ve been the fix we desperately wanted and needed to get Johto in its full glory, but I think HG/SS was a filler for what was to come next. Maybe in the future Johto will get a true experience (after all, to my knowledge this is the ONLY game to feature two full regions from start to finish). The potential is there… game freak needs to let Kanto go…
Gamefreak's weird love for kanto has slowly lessened over the years (at least from what I've seen) from like 2013-2020 it was bad but I THINK Gamefreak finally gotten the memo that we don't want Kanto constantly shoved down our throats
These games were innovative for their time; while their novelty has diminished somewhat, they remain enjoyable. I remember where I was and what I was doing when Gold and Silver came, just as I remember where I was and what I was doing when. Red, Blue, Ruby, and Saphire came out.
The games still pretty fun and have some good things going for it, but some people go to far in praising them and really overlook they're downsides
I don't think the legendaries need to play a role in the story. Lugia and Ho-oh have so much atmosphere to their encounters, and the cool part is getting to encounter something that seems like it's supposed to be rare.
I totally agree that the atmosphere that they surround themselves in is awesome, I really love the whirl islands and bell tower... but idk having Lugia and Ho-oh contribute nothing to the plot or region in general feels like a missed opportunity
I've replayed every generation recently. This was the only game where I didn't team build, as the selection of pokemon was genuinely terrible. I've never used a legendary on my main team except for during my replay of HGSS, and I only used them in a select few battles.
The Pokemon selection of Johto is literally so terrible and I'm surprised more people don't talk about it. When I usually play Pokemon games I tend to specifically choose ones that come from region they were introduced in and doing that with Johto is so annoying. More often than not your team is going to consist of your starter, quagsire, ampharos and maybe togepi. Would've been nice to use a mismagius if it wasn't available after the game lmao
Johto always was just an expansion pack for Kanto as opposed to its own region with its own thing. That's probably what Gamefreak thought new regions were back then, I guess.
Well Gold and SIlver were originally gonna be the last games in the series, so Gamefreak probably wanted to do as many callbacks as possible. Problem is though it rips so much originality Johto could've had and nowadays it's hard to imagine Johto/Gold and Silver without also thinking of the Kanto post game
For me the biggest issue with Johto games was the lack of evolution stones especially in Gold and Silver.
Idk why Gamefreak had such a weird vendetta against evolving Pokémon back then lol
6:57 younger I though that skarmory was a gen 3 pokemon, because I've never find one in Crystal, but find many in route 113 in Hoenn. It's only much later (during gen 4 era) that I realized, yeah ... Skarmory was in fact a gen 2 pokemon.
Edit : 9:11 Apparently you too had the same experience as me bak then X)
I only realized Skarmory was a gen 2 Pokemon a couple years back when I was doing the gen 2 memory challenge. When it told me I missed skarmory and the slugma line I was genuinely so shocked lol
As an ORAS apologist I'm glad I finally see someone defending those games
You can call it "Why Johto Games Are Worse Than Your Remember" if you don't want to talk specifically about the remakes.
While Winona uses a Skarmory, Blaine in Gen 2 uses a Magcargo, so by that point it's like remembering that the post-game exists. I totally understand for Skarmory given that no gen 2 trainer uses them and it is version exclusive. Call me biased, but I played RS before Gen 2 so I thought Pokémon like Chinchou, Girafarig, Slugma, and Natu's line were gen 3 mons as well, until I met them in routes. Good thing Will has a Xatu, but it's the only Gen 2 psychic type he has, no Girafarig, or Slowking.
The fact you talked about Archer not having a theme reminds me how Team Galactic, Skull, and Star are the only teams whose admins or commanders have a battle theme (idk if you'd count Marnie as an admin), so it kinda made the Team Flare scientists less memorable (and it's not like they had a recurring ace Pokémon like in Team Galactic).
I considered having the titles just list off the "Johto games" but I decided to just use HGSS instead since it stands out more, plus I try to lean more to talking specifically about HGSS but either way I think the name works.
And yes Blaine does use a magcargo on his team which is nice Johto representation... but too bad it only happens in the post game it is so crazy to me how many Johto specific Pokemon feel not native to it, a while back I was really into the Pokemon memorization game (where you have to list off every Pokemon from a specific region from memory) and the first time around I did so bad at memorizing Johto pokemon because there are so many mon's that are either really forgettable or felt like they came from another region.
And yeah it seems like overtime Gamefreak gave more specific themes to characters who don't necessarily need them. Which makes it all the more funny that a head villain in a large organization was still too mid to get his own lol
While i do agree with you, i feel like comparing johto to the cames that came after it isn't a very good way of criticizing it. You do that so much in this review that it gets kind of grating. Gen 2 was meant to specifically be a sequel to Gen 1 and nothing more. In that context, it being so connected to gen 1 kinda makes sense.
Alright I see why you’d point that out and I even mention that fact once or twice throughout the video. The main reason why I did compare them to what came out after is because of how often I hear criticisms about the modern games and see how can they can be easily applied for games that are considered “the best in the series” and how hypocritical it can sound when someone trashes sword and shields story or the over reliance on Kanto when gold and silver get overlooked for the same flaws
But I also recognize that it’s unfair since the second games in the series so there was a lot less pressure back then. Which is why I made the comparison to the Kanto games in regard to the story (team rocket plot in red and blue was much more interesting/better executed than gold and silver) and the legendaries (mewtwo having some sort of lore/existence in the plot with the Pokémon house while Lugia is never mentioned at all)
Having said all this I can understand why my criticism could still come off as unfair tho
Fair point about comparing Johto to future regions, but one thing you can definitely do is compare it to Kanto
In that regard, Kanto in gen 1 is a far better designed region than Johto, so it's definitely not a product of the time. Johto was just not well thought out
@PMar797 this, I actually do agree with.
There's something most people have a hard time vocalizing, I've often came to the conclusion like many other that Kanto and Jotho are basically one region and the 250 first Pokemon are the Pokedex from said region.
The fact that Pokédex is even more separate in the same region in. more recent titles even support this idea.
Idk, it’s still never specifically stated in the games that Kanto/Johto should be looked at as one big region. They’re neighbours for sure but a lot of cultural aspects you’ll find in both regions (such as Johto being a lot more traditional) means there’s an obvious divide between them.
I can buy this explanation like their pokemon league is held at same place and half of Kanto elite are also johto elite 4 .
the reason johto gets a pass for Kanto pandering 45:02 is bc it wasn't seen as that bad of a thing until gen 5 and onward. The "gen wunners" vs the gen 5 fans were in full force after gen 6 release and its been a constant fight since then 😅😅
Yeah your definitely right in that it didn't really become a huge problem until later on in the series, still though I feel like it's not that great of an excuse to just praise HGSS when it literally did the exact same thing
Then there's the gen 4'ers
great video, keep it up man 🔥
ps: I also like magonium
Glad to see a fellow meganium lover
Also thanks! Glad you enjoyed it
After watching this video you have convinced me of something that I knew in the corner of my heart but always dismissed. You're right, a Meganium doesn't have to be good in order to enjoy playing with it.
If I'm able to convert people into Meganium believers than I believe I did a job well done
You can actually get evolve togetic directly after you beat the elite 4 by doing the pokeathlon. the shiny stone is one of the rewards there. The problem is that its still after you beat the game, and its so annoying because togekiss is such an amazing pokemon locked until the post game
That definitely softens the blow a little bit since that means you can use a togekiss when you battle the kanto gym leaders... but man it's still not an absolute concrete way like it is finding the item on the ground itself and the fact that it's still only available after the game is confusing and disappointing
when you realize that all pokemon games are just above average slightly mediocre games that are heavily carried by nostalgia
THANK YOU. I can't stand hearing people call games like HGSS peak gaming.
Speaking from a non nostalgic player, since I never played these games as a child just recently, while they are definitely not perfect, i still had a lot of with them (i only played the ds ones), these games really gave me a sense of adventure, and the gameplay loop that can be really boring to some people, actually hooked me on in
@@a_naotenhonome780 they’re above average.
@@giganticmoon to me they are good games, no great, not amazing but good, while there's better turn based rpgs, pokemon is just one that you pick when you wanna have fun and relaxing time, at least thre ds ones, they are the only ones i played i can't give me opinion in other games lol
@@marinagaleotti in this part i agree, while i had fun with the game, its definitely not peak especially compared to other ds games
So are we ignoring the typhlosion and octillery stories or not?
I mean that isn’t really a critique, just some really…. Freaky lore
So as a fan of Pokemon Crystal here's what I got.... Pokemon Crystal isn't meant to have high stakes. It's a build your own adventure. The Team Rocket plot isn't supposed to be a big focus. The game relies on your personal experience not the "oh how epic movie like can we make the game look!" It's a DnD style make your journey game. The problem with HGSS is they try to make it a Gen 4 Game with a Gen 2 Skin.
I always see people talking about how the Jotho games has so much "content" because you can go to kanto after beating the elite 4. But do they really tho? If you are talking about optional content, i can kinda see it for HGSS. But if we are just talking about playing trought the main game than Ruby and Sapphire, Platinum, Black and White, BW2, and HGSS are all basically the same length, all having an average of 31-36 hours to complete according to HowLongToBeat. The Jotho games aren't significantly longer than the other games, and if we are talking about GSC, they are actually on the lower end at 30 hours.
The problem is that people see Kanto and the 8 new gyms, and think that this is now "DOUBLES" the content of what they have already played. However this is "NOT" double the content at all. All you do in Kanto is just run around and crush a couple of underleveled gym leaders with a tiny team rocket sub plot for the radio tower. It legit only takes like 2-3 hours to complete... it really is not that much content.
And more importantly, it really isn't even fun content... it is honestly really boring, there is basically no story there, and for the most it is just piss easy. Tbh a lot of the time when i play through a Jotho game, i honestly just stop after beating the Elite Four, because the Kanto section just feels like such a waste of time.
Well I can understand people's love for HGSS's post game since the novelty of going back to entirely other region after exploring another one sounds really cool on paper. Even though like you said, it's essentially just a glorified boss rush. Still though I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing and since this type of post game hasn't been recreated since the novelty of it is still talked about till this day. And unless another Pokemon game offers up that same experience but adds more substance to it than people will still look at it in a good light.
Also wow I didn't realize that HGSS still takes as much time to beat as it does other games, you would think that the play time would be a lot longer huh?
I've beaten Johto in 15 hours in my latest playthrough, and that includes going through the optional dungeons and exploring the entire region
Didn't really bother with Kanto afterwards because the game up to that point was a slog, but you can easily beat it in 3-5 hours
20 hours is not that long for a Pokemon game. This "most content" argument has always been silly and easy to disprove, especially with the likes of BW2 having a really long main quest and then so much more to do after beating Iris
I really love your critique on how modern games have flaws like over reliance on gen 1 callbacks and flat story but when the Johto games have the exact same issues the community considers it the best game ever.
It’s a weird double standard that that I don’t really understand as to why it exists. That’s why I think it’s interesting to think about what would’ve happened if Johto was released nowadays. And if people would criticize it’s callbacks to Kanto in the same way people criticize the modern games for doing the same
Where have you been these past 5 years? Johto is constantly criticized for "leaning on Kanto". GSC at least had the excuse of being made before the rules of what a new generation should be were established. admittedly HGSS could and should have done more to make Johto more separate from Kanto, but game freak has always been stupid and lazy with remakes.
Modern pokemon games have no excuse and actively double down on the screw-ups that people hate about Johto.
@ this is more a recent thing I feel like only started after pChal made his gen 2 video in 2020. Before that even critiquing a Johto game would get you bullied
I actually watched pchals video before making this one to make sure I didn’t just list off everything he said in his video. And while we still have similar opinions his video was a lot more laid back and off the cuff than what I tried doing with this video
35:29 Soaring with Latios and Latias was taken from Pokemon Ranger Guardian Signs.
Damn I never knew that, still though this was the first appearance of soaring in the mainline games at least, and a more 3D version at that
17:33 Golden rod tower climax ;)
your dex argument is baffling
excluding starters and legendries: ok that's fine ig
excluding additions to gen 1 families: while they aren't wholly original, those pokemon were introduced at the same time as Jhoto was, and Jhoto is kind of ingrained in their identity
whining about future evos to "incomplete lines" is kinda dumb. yes, there are gonna be some underpowered options, not everything has to be 480+ BST and perfectly optimized for a nuzlocke. I can assure you, a playthrough of Hoenn is gonna be more fun with underdogs like tropius than just swampert and swellow and other nuzlocke must haves. And even then, some of the examples you use are genuinely good like girafarig and ursaring. Also why are the ones with retroactive babies included? Azurill is barely any different from Marill, both design and stats-wise. Sudowoodo is a roadblock pokemon (tm), so they wouldn't give you early bonsly, and mantyke wouldn't make sense to encounter in any location before you get surf, so that wouldn't be introduced earlier either
Why does it matter if there are few 3 stage lines? I think it's just better that there are 2 stage and single stage pokemon because it adds uniqueness. I don't see anything inherently better about 3 stage line pokemon than 2 or single stage lines, is there something I'm missing?
I agree that the larvitar line shouldn't be post game.
Jumpluff line sucks? Like, cuz they aren't offensively focused? I hate to break it to you, but only wanting performance from your team sucks the fun out of pokemon. What draws kids into liking a pokemon? Do they look at their moveset or base stats or abilities? No, they see the design first, strength may boost their opinion of the pokemon, but design is the most important element to their core demographic, that's probably why you got into this series as a kid, the cool designs.
Ampharos is good at beating the game, but you shouldn't limit your only options to S tier pokemon, again, it's more fun to go on a vibes based team of your favorites rather than optimizing the playthrough like you're a nuzlocke channel.
Just because a pokemon is retroactively added onto, doesn't mean it's useless. You show Girafarig and Piloswine in the visual, and those are very solid, offensively minded pokemon. These lines get evolutions because the fanbase generally thinks that every line needs to be 3 stages and like 500+ BST, even though they were fine as is.
The total number of the kanto pokemon you put is unfair because I assume you included the kanto region as well, and of course there are gonna be mostly kanto pokemon in a region that didn't have any jhoto mons in their debut. It's also not a super fair comparison in the first place because jhoto's new pokemon (even the ones you excluded) are about a third less than kanto's originals. Also, wow, the exaggeration in this segment is insane
you seem to judge pokemon based on stats and performance rather than design and vibes. Maybe that's the reason you're so sinical about this aspect into adulthood
sincerely, A Ledian Fan
Your a ledian fan so automatically your opinions are invalid
…
Jk lmao, but in actuality even though it may seem like I care more about stats than design that’s actually pretty false, I mean again, I love meganium and I can admit that it’s pretty horrendous to use in battle. And in terms of using something like ampharos, the 2 reasons I decided to use on my team are because 1. It looks cool I like ampharos 2. There was literally nothing else I could’ve added. Everything I find in routes are the same ole Kanto Pokémon that I really didn’t want to use in my Johto play through or some Johto Pokémon like girafirag which is pretty ehh on its own if you don’t include it’s evolution it got in SV. When I typically play a Pokémon game I exclusively want to use Pokémon that are brand new to that region, and I went into that same mindset when I played through this game and I would’ve absolutely loved using a murkrow or a houndour IF they were actually available to catch before you beat the game. I really feel like it wouldn’t hurt to have more of these Pokémon available in anyway shape or form but are just locked behind the post game when that’s usually the case for no other game
Also funnily enough, that spreadsheet I made only consisted of Johto areas, none from Kanto, which is crazy since the numbers were so skewed for Kanto but trust me I only used Johto areas (probably should’ve put some sort of indicator in the video)
And finally… the jumpluff part was mostly a bit, but in my experience using it he’s been a pretty bad asset for my team (cool design tho)
I think you are kinda missing the point.
The problem with the vast majoroty of Jotho pokemon is that they ARE underpowered without their subsequent gena evolutions
Stuff like Togetic, Piloswine, Yanma, Gligar! They just don't have the stat to be a good member of anyone's team. Not every pokemon needs to be a powerhouse or a viable competitive option but they at least need the stats to not be runned over by any pokemon they don't outlevel
Even kids are not gona want to keep those pokemon in their team once they realize they get destoried by everything. Sure there might always be that one person that likes Ledian and alike, so much it's willing to spend hours grinding to put it on par with the rest of the game, but that's more an exeption rather than a rule
Even giving those pokemons a "support role" it's not enough to save them, since supporting the rest of your team it's not as needed when you are up against an AI that doesn't switch pokemons. Not to mention that the fact that building a good support Pokemon for an i game team it's actually pretty hard, first of all in the case of the Gen 4 TMs games still break so you can't reshuffle your moves as you please and secondly many support pokemon need stuff like wether conditions (Jumpluff) or hidden abilities (Murkrow) to actually be any good at supporting (not to mention the ability to use items in battle nullifies the need for most forms of support)
And even if some pokemon might still be serviceble like Girafarig, there is a difference between a just ok, and a good pokemon
I had a very similar situation with togetic. You can get shiny stone by getting first place in the bug catching contest before you can even hatch Togepi! Just learn how to always get first place
Can't you only win a shiny stone after you unlock the national dex? That's what I found online at least.
Still though there are ways to get a shiny stone before getting all 16 gym badges in the bug catching contest and pokeathlon, but there is still some RNG involved, especially since you can only do the bug catching contest on certain days as well
@@theglasshalffull6958 oh! that sounds unfortunate, let me just test it myself and come back to you, i dont have nat dex on my shiny hunting copy yet. that would be huge if you can get it before
"I get it, Jasmine is hot so she gets a pass"
Me: But Raihan is hot, too-
"But Raihan is pretty hot as well!"
(And yes, I'm saying this as a straight guy who's crushed on Jasmine ever since I first played SoulSilver as a 10 y/o. Raihan is just up there in looks).
As someone who’s also a straight guy I’m glad we can mutually agree that Raihan is an attractive guy
As a straight woman, I only agree that raihan is hot.
Glad we can all agree on the same thing 👍🏻
I don't mind Oh-oh's treatment distant from the game story. Even though they let you capture it, this detachment sorta keeps it as more of an actual deity than other legendary pokemon. The others are more defined in a bigger cosmology and more actively manipulated in their respective games' stories. That makes as you say for a potentially better story but it also pulls their leg down and drags them from heaven into just being other characters. I feel move awe from Oh-oh remaining distant and being forever theorized as a crucial part of Ash's journey in the anime than something like Arceus giving an Iphone to the player in Legends.
The evil team shenanigans being more grounded but not as ridiculous as Team Yell is actually refreshing in the grand scheme of things when the other teams seemingly want to up the scale into continental reshaping or universal restart. That said and potentially contradicting my previous paragraph, this video gives me the idea that the evil team story could be rewritten in the following manner:
[ x P ] Giovanni back in Red dismantled the team on his own account so it makes no sense he'd even consider it in the sequel. Instead, have the admins want something from Giovanni that Giovanni is unwilling to give them (not necessarily an object or pokemon but whatever "something") and make use of Ho-oh's wish-granting lore to put him into the story. Also maybe have Ho-oh be in the radar for Silver for something Giovanni related, ultimately perhaps dropping that idea and resolving to not depend on such a plan (not necessarily replacing any of the story he already has in the games as it is, if possible just adding to it).
Lugia has never felt super related to Ho-oh beyond the "used to live on tower next door" bit, and it is kind of embarrassing for the "beast of the SEA" to have the tower burned down while the literal bird of fire next door gets to keep it. So maybe just make it a tower made for Lugia without Lugia living there. Make use of Selebi in-story and take Lugia to an un-burned version of the tower when inside, connect it in some manner to the kanto birds like in the movies and bridge the trip there with some sort of mission. Something beyond just "capture each trio that is randomly around the map". [/ x P ]
So yeah, there are ways of improvement.
I think the intention of the OG games's pokemon ratios was to give players something familiar (kanto pokemon) knowing that players were gonna be hunting for the newer ones, and for HGSS they updated with some gen 3 and 4 stuff but otherwise did not want to alter things too much when gen 2 was already consolidated. Either way this expectation kind of overturns the lower ratios. The idea is to make the gen 2s more special by making them a bit more rare and expect kids to wanna try them after the effort of finding them. This doesn't mean gen 2 were all that rare. They gave you Mareep basically for free on the bushes before Falkner's gym shouting to you "here's a new gen electric right before that flying gym".
Jasmine's quest is a stand in for the contents you'd usually play inside the gym. You might say it lacks steel types and might be lacking in a lot more places, but most definitely that was the intention. Would love to see that improved someday if they ever re-remake it.... but please don't have them remake them right now.... or gen 5. Not until their games get their act together from the technical issues of the last couple gens.... if they ever do xD
EDIT: One more note. Their content derived from other games can be enough that it can be deemed dependent of them, but I'd say it is a strong point in favor of HGSS. It is cause of celebration that they took ANYTHING from any other gens on this one considering how much they decide to drop (like follow pokemon in future entries). Pokedex included, even if OGs grabbed a ton of Kanto and gen 4 grabbed a ton of everything else. If a game has a mix of its own stuff and stuff from other regions it instantly ups my personal enjoyment of it. Gen 3 having only Hoenn seagles in half the map or BW1 having only Unova pokemon before post-game was always a detriment to me, no matter how much one might argue they are trying to get their own identity. Some familiarity is also needed. Look at the reaction of "we are dropping megas moving forward" and "no more national dex" at their time xD
A blend is needed IMO. Whenever they wanna leave all the features or older rosters of pokemon behind, there's always a negative reaction.
When your right your right. Am playing every gen 4 game and I’ve been trading between all of them for trade/item/stone evolution.
I find that All of the really cool Pokemon (electivire, gliscor, mamoswine, etc) need some weird evolution method while all the lesser ones are usually level up
The only real problems with these games (HGSS not the originals) that they didnt fix with the original are the lack of a proper level curve, the lack of improvement to the gym leader teams, and to some degree the lack of Johto pokemon in Johto but the Safari zone does remedy that to a degree
I’m no game developer but is it weird to think that thinking the level curve is an easy fix?? Like it baffles me that one of the most outdated things about the original gold and silver was somehow completely overlooked when it came to making the remakes
@theglasshalffull6958 my guess is cause they wanted the game to remain open ended after the 4th gym. I would have given the game a proper level curve while still letting players challenge the gyms in any order they want.
@@juandiegotorres9632the Kanto games are open ended between Erika and Blaine. Even though the game leads you in a specific direction, you can fight those gyms in different orders. So, that doesn't excuse Johto's bad gyms after Morty
Furthermore, the HGSS Safari zone is a terribly designed feature and the worst in the series, given how it relies on backtracking, waiting in game hours and weird customization to unlock its full potential and encounter every Pokemon
Oh wow are gyms 4-7 really that open-ended? Strange how I've never seen anyone talk about it. Still though I wonder if that was an intentional game design or was there not enough time for Gamefreak to actually add roadblocks or something to not get farther in the game
@@theglasshalffull6958 yep, as soon as you get to Celadon, you can get the tea and then go to Saffron right away. You can also beat Koga, get surf and then challenge Blaine if you go to Cinnabar via Pallet town
The fact that you can do that doesn't mean that it's the intentional way, and the gym leaders' levels are adjusted accordingly. Meanwhile in the Johto games, the region after Ecruteak is laid out in a way that makes it more logical to go west before going East. While you *can* go in a different direction, that will just make you backtrack more - just like in Kanto. Despite that, the gym leader levels are completely wack, and the pacing is also inconsistent. They got this better in RBY, why did they have to break it in GSC and not fix it in HGSS?
You can also get a shiny stone by winning first in the bug catching contest and through the Pokeathlon
Yes that’s technically true, but it is a lot more luck based and only available on certain days, I was only talking about super concrete ways to get the shiny stone and the fact that’s it’s only available super late in the game is such a missed opportunity
@@theglasshalffull6958 well for the bug catching contest it is. But the pokeathlon not really. You can do it whenever you want
@@juandiegotorres9632not until you get the national dex. Even then, you either have to get all 16 badges or grind the Pokeathlon/bug catching contest until you have the means to get one. That's just dragged out and frustrating gameplay, and makes the Togepi line not as tempting to use as it should be
It almost feels like a slap in the face being given such a cool Pokemon and then being told "Yeah, this thing isn't viable until after you've completed 99% of the game lol"
@theglasshalffull6958 like I said. The pokeathlon can be started within the first half of the Johto portion of the game.
I think team rocket was so off put in gen 2 BECAUSE Giovanni wasn’t there to lead the team. Therefore team rocket is doing stuff that their previous boss did before thinking it will work the same. This is not team rocket.
I can understand wanting to portray Team Rocket in a more pitiful light for having their leader gone and not functioning as an evil group as well as before. However, it couldn't have been done in a more boring way lol. The admins aren't compelling characters to follow, again Archer is such an awful villain and the fact that they only show up three times makes it hard to really care about what they're going through and makes them feel so pointless as a result when there WAS potential for something more interesting
I've responded to a lot of comments in here, but just wanted to say that you've made a solid video. Keep it up!
One thing I want to call out is the inclusion of Kanto in these games. The feature sounds good... on paper. In reality, Kanto was massively downgraded from what it was in RBY. Sure, you can see changes, but they're all negative, such as the removal of areas (Pokemon tower, Pokemon mansion) or trimmed down locations (Cinnabar island, Power plant, Mt Moon). Meanwhile, we don't see any new areas that popped up. I find it hard to believe that Kanto, the region that's seen as more advanced than Johto, hasn't grown in any way in the years since RBY. If you've played RBY or especially FRLG before any Johto game, you'll notice the obvious lack of new content. It does not boost these games up as much as many people claim
I can definitely see where your coming from for sure, I remember on my most recent playthrough of the post game I went into Mt Moon and lavender tower and thinking "wait that's all there is here" and I guess this was made just to save time and thinking players wouldn't really care about what's gone. But in actuality kinda does strip down Kanto to what it was from before. However, I will still defend it in saying it's still a very cool addition. Since no other game since then has attempted to add a completely new region since these games so it's uniqueness still makes it a fan-favourite. Unless we eventually get a game that proves otherwise. Also you can't lie that there has been some decent changes here and there that are pretty cool. Like the certain gym leader changes and redesigns adds something that I feel should be talked about in a good light. And the fact that cinnabar island disintegrated to dust is something I'll always find funny. Some people have said that HGSS post game is essentially just a boss rush and I can definitely see why. However, I can totally see why people still love it till this day.
Also I have seen you responding to a bunch of comments here and I love it! It gives a sense of community to this video/my channel and reading/responding to comments are one of my favourite things about making videos!
It doesn't matter, Glass. You can go to Kanto!
👑🤵🏽🃏💯
NO, STOP IT. GET OUT OF MY HEAD
9:21 jfc jump scare
Raihan is definitely hotter than jasmine
Glad to see my comment section is filled with intellectuals
It's true
Nah. Volkner all the way
It's implied that The Lighthouse is basically Jasmine's Gym.
I see that sentiment going around which I can see why that is, but all the trainers don’t use steel types and you sorta just go up a couple of floors to the top, not really a puzzle I’d say
Better than nothing though I guess
@@theglasshalffull6958 the only reason I'm guessing that is because in HGSS, after curing Amphy, some of the trainers in the Lighthouse congratulate you at Jasmine's Gym.
Thing is with the GS story, it at least has the excuse of being the second ever Pokemon game.
SwSh do not have that excuse, especially given that BW happened between the two
Yeah I agree that GS story is able to get excused in that sense but I find the story in their predecessors to be more interesting because of the presence of Giovanni, and in the dozens of cool ways that this "Team rocket comeback" story could've been made it seemed gamefreak went with the most boring one.
But again like I said in the video, The SWSH story still sucks ass
This is why I say that Remakes should exist for the old games Johto,Unova & Kalos too. But ppl are like, it's fine Legends games exist not realising that Legends are prequel/sequels
I actually like the story of the gen 2 games and their gen 4 remakes. I like how much more down to earth it is compared to the super high stakes "preventing the end of the world as we know it" stories of some other Pokemon games.
The fact that what is left of Team Rocket loves their boss so much they're doing their best to cause enough of a ruckus to make him come back is rather heartwarming and allows me to feel a degree of sympathy and empathy towards them that I just never feel towards later villain organizations in the series.
I mean yes there are some individual characters in later villain organizations that I feel sympathy and empathy for but the organizations themselves as a whole, I never really had that happen again after Team Rocket.
I also want to say that just because Slowpoke tails can grow back that doesn't mean them getting them cut off for profit is any better. It is still a horrific thing for them to be put through. Would you like to get one of your limbs chopped off if you could grow it back simply because you could grow it back? I'm pretty sure the answer is no.
While I am in agreement that more could've been done with Archer I think it is important to remember he isn't actually a big bad thus while it might make the climax of the story "boring" by comparison to the climax of other stories in the Pokemon games series it makes perfectly fine sense.
There is a difference between a bad story and a story that bores you or that you find dull rather than interesting. A lot of the story beats of the Johto region games are too impersonal for the player character for them to be incorporated in a linear way as is the case with most every region's story going forward in the timeline of Pokemon games by chronological release.
Your player has no connections to Silver, Giovanni, or any of the Team Rocket executives and other higher ups, including Archer. Thus you stumbling into their conflict makes sense and a lot of what is even going on with them is left to your imagination, but they give you enough to work with to draw a full conclusion.
Instead of telling you the story of Jack and the Beanstalk you're wandering the pages of a storybook version of it experiencing it in real time engaging with it only when you feel like it outside of two fixed points.
And I will take that approach over the hand-holding approaches of the Unova region games or the Alola region games any day of the year even if those regions have more compelling stories to tell overall (I actually don't believe they do, one is the story of a sweet guy who got played like a fiddle and one is the story of a woman preoccupied and obsessed with beauty (color me severely underwhelmed), and her often more annoying than they're worth children, Lillie especially).
Just a small reminder that the gen 2 games were planned to be that last in the series. So keep that in mind for some of the negatives like Team Rocket. It was supposed to serve as a conclusion to their story as opposed to a whole new story and they couldn't exactly change that in the remakes because then it wouldn't be a remake it would just be a new johto game. Atleast they added some stuff to fix some loose ends like the Celebi event. Also, I think the disconnect feeling was a choice game freak made to make it known that this isn't the same team rocket as the one in Kanto. They don't have a leader anymore they are scrambling to maintain their presence. Some are selling slowpoke tails, others are trying to create a machine to forcefully evolve pokemon, while some more are trying to get in contact with their boss that abandoned them in the hopes that he can bring back some order. I do agree that they could of showed up some more though.
I think that's a pretty intriguing way to look at it and it makes their actions in the game make more sense and forgivable. Still though they could've made the player feel more invested in their quest to back into prominence by again, having them show up more or give us a villain at least half as interesting as Giovanni to try and stop us. Archer severely brings down Team Rocket in these games to make them feel so worthless
@theglasshalffull6958 yeah I definitely agree with you. They could have showed much more events with team rocket and did alot more with archer and the other admins for sure while maintaining the thought process of what I said above.
But they weren’t planned to be the last games
Fully agree with your post + I'd like to add that Archer didn't have an own name or theme, because it was still Giovanni being the main boss. And the main boss was missing, that was part of the story of G/S. And honestly I think it is fine, because Giovannis absence still had enough impact on the story itself (like Team Rocket struggling to stay relevant). I personally wish they would have done more with Silver in that regard. I hardly disagree with GSC having the worst story. Sure it's not the best one either (given pokemon at that time didnt focus so much on story...), but as a sequel to R/B/G its totally solid I think.
@@cpmc1164 The Pokemon Company President, Tsunekazu Ishihara, has been speaking about the series with Nintendo In the latest "Iwata Asks" feature on the official Nintendo site:
"I worked with the assumption that after we put out Gold and Silver, my work as far as Pokémon was concerned would be done, I didn't intend to make any more Pokémon titles. I even thought that once we entered the twenty-first century, it would be time for me to do something else entirely.
I remember that when Gold and Silver were released, I felt like a burden had finally been lifted from my shoulders. We'd had our sights set on the finish line of Gold and Silver for so long, and now that we'd finally completed the major series running right through from Red and Blue, I felt I could say to Tajiri-san: "I've fulfilled my duty!"
Once we'd released Gold and Silver and it was selling even faster than Red and Green, I couldn't very well get off the ride halfway through saying: "Nice work everyone. Good luck from here on in!"
That's a copy and paste from the interview.
Well, now, there’s 3 johto mons in the gym challenge, Clair has a Kingdra. Still absolutely terrible though.
Also, I think it’s very smart to have a handful of mons only available late in the postgame (I like misdreavus being so rare and not in any gym leader’s team… it woulda been awesome if, yknow, it didn’t suck.)
And, as someone who only played Silver a few years back, I must say, it’s legendaries and story are… actually pretty solid. I love the way it’s legendaries are treated. They are gods, why should they give a shit about what some losers are doing in a radio tower? They are so far above humanity that they don’t really have time to meddle in their affairs, existing in only passing whispers of a handful of people, and the lingering, momentary effects of their individual action, which in it of themselves become legends to whisper about. The only way one can possibly find them is by going far out of their way, and descending an ancient, hidden cavern, until the guardian finally reveals itself. Until the legend finally becomes true. I think the legend not showing up in the story further adds to the story.
Team rocket here isn’t supposed to be a threat. They are SUPPOSED to be pathetic, that is the point. The gen 2 games have a very strong emphasis on tradition, from the kimono girls to the architecture to the everything else. However, team rocket here serves as a dark representation of a bad clinging to the past, a twisted version of tradition. Their dark goals fail to truly be threatening, and their desperation to return to how things once were prevent them from truly being a threat (from using the radio tower to brainwash pokemon as they could’ve). If the legendaries showed up, it would’ve both made the legendaries feel less legendary, and would’ve given more threat to team rocket here, and made them and their clinging appear more legitimate, but they aren’t supposed to. The game’s entire point is balancing tradition, and advancement. Notice how the second half of the game takes place in Kanto, a much more technologically advanced region compared to the traditional Johto (it’s key legendary being a messed up result of overwhelming, dangerous scientific ambition by team rocket) . Meanwhile, Johto is the new region, kanto the old. In other words, it’s a 50/50 balance between tradition and technology, new and old… you see what I’m trying to say?
Also in what world is silver one of the best rivals. Bro is literally the worst one what.
And, the johto games weren’t made to stand on their own. They were made to be sequels to kanto. This was before the entire idea existed of different regions and whatnot, they weren’t meant to be wiped, different areas entirely, they were meant to be sequels, not just in the same franchise.
They work well as sequels, and build off each other’s ideas as two sides of the same coin. Team rocket flips in how it functions between the two games to be a core part of the game’s themes taken to a dangerous, twisted level. The ambitions of science, progress, and desire taken to a level that defies nature and creates an abomination, followed by the connections to the past, care for traditions, and care for those who and what has come before you leading to a desperate, pathetic clinging to a man who has long moved on to do something else, long matured past bothering with such crime after being embarrassed by a child, a desperate clinging to a past long gone, no matter who is hurt along the way.
This is a pretty detailed look at your perspective of these games, and it does slightly make me look at the legendaries at a different way. However, I still would’ve liked to have some sort of lore/build up for the legendaries, again Ho-oh has something going on with the burned tower and legendary beasts but Lugia is mentioned very offhandedly and I hate how disconnected they feel from the rest of the game. I don’t think that they needed to be essential for team rockets sake. And speaking of, yeah, I can see why Gamefreak wanted to portray them as pathetic, with their leader gone they feel lost and only try to mimic what made them so successful before but MAN having the admins be such lousy and forgetful antagonists made me really not care about whatever sort of “plot” going on. With how infrequently they show up made me not see their perspective as much as the game wanted us to feel. Especially with how boring the main villain in archer was. Only showing up once and being such a forgetful character. If they gave him more screen time and maybe give him some kind of struggle to at least make him more memorable could’ve went a long way to show how far team rockets has fallen over the last 3 years.
Also very curious to see your reason as to why you think silver is one of the worst villains? One of the biggest consensus about these games is that Silver was a great rival/had a good character arc
"You can go to Kanto".
So that's why people like Tokyo so much.
Being more serious, I *COULD* share the excitement of returning, and I do... until the level threshold is either do a "challenge run" or stop for days or weeks to be strong enough to be on even field. And of course that buries the whole appeal in gen 2 and does the same in gen 4.
Gen 2 at least the novelty of being the only games thus far that allows you to go back to a past region. If a future installment does it and in a better way, I can see people going back and criticizing the HGSS post game more
38:49 uhhh Persona 5 is set in the real world Kanto Prefecture lmao
...Fuck.
I actually meant to say that Persona 5 sucks because it doesn't let you go to the Kanto region FROM Pokemon
I've never played the original Heart gold and soul silver I've always played the rom hacks Sacred gold and storm silver which after watching parts of this video made me realize that that from hack while making the game more diverse and difficult it legit added quality of life changes like making stone evolutions and evolutions for the johto pokemon way more accessible via Pokeathelon and such
I know there's a bunch of roms out there that try to change up the original games in anyway they could. Most of them just try to make the original games more difficult, but some of them really push the boundaries and sometimes become the better way to experience those games, like radical red (even though it's really fucking hard)
@theglasshalffull6958 oh I lost years off my life with radical red 💀
I was able to get to the first Giovanni fight but completely gave up after it, maybe I'll get back to it one day but the game was literally making me lose my sanity
the best part about Gen2 is the severe lack of Gen2 pokemon.
Is that because most gen 2 Pokemon are so bad you want nothing to do with them?
@theglasshalffull6958 that and most are just either difficult to find or not available til end game. Can't tell you how irritated I was that I couldn't have a Houndoom on my team for my playthrough because for some godforsaken reason it's only available in one route in Kanto
I posted a comment similar to this on a different video a while back, but even in a video like this, which criticizes HGSS for not being "as great as the fandom makes it out to be" and even mentions at some point that ORAS butchered Wattson's team after Emerald had fixed it - it's very, very disappointing to see ORAS praised as the model remake when in reality it suffers many of the same issues as BDSP (and I guess HGSS too, based on this video). I will say that I played through both remakes as a kid, when they came out, and while I enjoyed HGSS when I played it, I remember feeling mostly an overarching sense of disillusionment while playing ORAS.
In regards to the butchering Wattson's team part, one issue with ORAS is that the enemy trainers are remained almost completely unchanged from not even Emerald, but the easier (aside from Route 110 Rival) base Ruby/Sapphire battles. Meanwhile, the player character has been powercrept exponentially in terms of the tools they have been given and the in-game learnsets of the Pokemon they're able to catch, making for a game that is mind-numbingly and forgettably easy. All of the Megas, and character redesigns are just as you describe Lysandre in XY - they're oozing with *aura*, but that fresh coat of paint doesn't really disguise the fact that they're lacking in /substance/. I think that Wally's development and presentation is the exception, one of the few objective upgrades of ORAS over the original RSE that isn't just graphics.
I didn't think much of the soaring mechanic when it was originally introduced, but the way everyone on the internet has been glazing the original "laggy glitchy 3D" mechanic, especially in the era of Scarlet and Violet, has quickly turned it into the "but you can go to Kanto" of ORAS defenses. Sure, it's flashy, and cool, and awesome the first few times you do it, and it's cool to finally see the entire Hoenn region fully modeled as you're flying over it, but that excitement quickly wears off, and once you gain the ability to Fly normally (which for some reason the game decides to give you AFTER soaring) you just end up using that instead because the animation time and lagginess of soaring makes Flying much faster and more convenient. I never even used the Dexnav because I didn't really see a point to it - it ruined the experience of exploring areas for a new, potentially rare Pokemon when I have a device that tells me exactly what lives in that area and whether or not I've already seen it, but I feel like you could interchange criticisms with it and how HGSS handled the Safari Zone and call that even.
The salt about the Battle Frontier is much deeper than it initially appears given the context in which the game was released: Gen 6 was the first generation to make raising a competitive-level Pokemon something relatively /easy/ to do in game, with new breeding mechanics, Super Training, etc. so for a lot of people, including myself, XY were the first games where they tried their hand battling competitively on some level. As I mentioned before, ORAS is difficulty scaled to the original Ruby/Sapphire, so what's the point of giving players access to all of these overpowered tools that allow them to effortlessly stomp the main campaign... and then *not* giving them a place to properly put them to the test afterwards? It really felt like a slap in the face at the time, and the fact that it's set a precedent for a lack of postgame battle areas afterward is disappointing to say the least.
Also side note, us dungeonheads are absolutely terrified of Ledian. That thing will kill you like tiger star in the warrior cat books with agility + silver wind
Alright maybe I went in a little too hard with the praise for ORAS, and it's making me realize that a lot of the critiques that were there for BDSP such as "not adding enough from platinum" can also apply to ORAS since it "didn't add enough from Emerald." Since those games are essentially just souped up/definitive versions of the Hoenn and Sinnoh games and it really is confusing that Gamefreak would use essentially worse versions as a basis of a remake but I digress. I will say that the soaring mechanic might be a more opininated thing, I remember loving it back then and would always love to soar to locations rather than flying (even though it is by far less time consuming) just because I liked soaring throughout Hoenn in the sky, plus finding all the ultra wormholes in the post-game was a huge plus.
And yes, the exclusion of the battle frontier is unfortunate, and it's a shame that entire feature is essentially locked behind 20 year old games, and while I liked what they gave us instead with the Delta episode, I think if given the option to choose between having the delta episode or a battle frontier, they would most likely choose the latter.
You enjoy the battle frontier btw? Or is it something you never really cared about
@@theglasshalffull6958 Yeah I would definitely say a common thread for BDSP and ORAS criticisms is that they are pretty explicitly not remakes of Platinum or Emerald.
I honestly don't remember enough of the Delta Episode to have a strong opinion on it - I think it might be carried by like the wish fulfillment of the "using the space center to go to space" rumor but I feel like there's a lot of deep lore in there that just gets brought up and never really expanded on? idk
I always thought the battle frontier was cool as a kid in both Gen 3 and Gen 4, but didn't have the competitive knowledge to really maintain a win streak or earn any symbols. So when Game Freak made competitive so much more accessible in Gen 6, and then remade the region the battle frontier is native to, including it as a final, optional postgame challenge area seemed more like the natural, logical conclusion rather than something that "fans are just butthurt about and were dumb to expect because it was never an Emerald remake". For what it's worth though, I've played through Perfect Emerald (romhack) into the battle frontier as an adult and I find it holds up. A fair bit of it is just running things over with choice band tauros but playing around some of the gimmicks or janky NPC strategies can be pretty fun imo.
I guess in some aspects in what I value in a Pokémon game is why I rated ORAS so highly. There’s definitely aspects of it that I wish were improved on and since playing BDSP which is such a lousy remake I look at ORAS in a much better way. Again HGSS are really good remakes. But I moreso try to get across that people think they’re absolutely perfect and look at ORAS as inferior when I feel like that is such a weird conclusion
I understand that end bit perfectly. I was late to the series and started with x and y. Which are pretty flawed and super easy. But- I didn't care about that! I still cherish my Yveltal and Delphox. I thought the megas were cool. I didn't notice the flaws until years later. All that mattered was the experience I cherished when I was younger. I look past its flaws because it was my first generation. It being my first experience is what mattered to me. And I think that's fine
Glad someone was able to relate to the end message so well! I feel like no matter how much we think a certain Pokémon/any game for that matter is flawed, it will never take away how we felt about them when we first experienced them, and in no way should people try to diminish how much they meant for you back then. I’m also someone who loved XY, despite how much missed potential there was
Damn, the Ledian slander is wild.
Hey not my fault, should’ve told Gamefreak to make a better pokemon
I don't think it was laziness to not include Johto Pokémon in gym teams because it's a conscious decision when putting the teams together that they actively would have to make
My guess is they wanted the Johto ganes to feel like a natural extension to the Kanto ones and wanted the Johto Pokémon to feel more special or unique
I don't know, making Johto Pokemon feel "unique" in the region they come from just doesn't feel very immersive. If they want Johto to feel like a lived in region having it stand out more from it's counterpart is completely necessary and since gyms are such big parts of Pokemon games. Having them stand out less the way they are now feels pretty lame
Special or not it doesn't change the fact that a lot of the johto pokemon are weak even outside of competive. That not even going over the pokemon that were screwed cause of the pre physical special split
@@theglasshalffull6958 eh most of Johto is pretty laid back even in monster design
A lot of them are based on regular animals from the IRL areas or have a more naturalistic feel
I don't think Johto or its monsters were meant to be super bombastic for the most part, more or less just being a relatable area and a low-key feeling bookend to the games
When you look deeper into it it seems more like they just wanted to make a big love letter to that part of Japan with that game rather than trying to keep a billion dollar franchise engine going
People complain about BDSP a lot and validly so in most regards but HGSS didn’t do enough for me as a remake in terms of fixing johto’s biggest issues
True, but BDSP was literally *the bare minimum* a remake could do, many fans including myself expected a fully 3D remake of Diamond and Pearl similar to Sword and Shield in terms of art direction. The disappointment we had when we first saw the trailer truly was immeasurable.
With that being said however, HGSS were definitely flawed, something Gen 4 fanboys cannot seem to admit. One of the biggest issues of the original GSC titles, the level curve could've been fixed very easily by HGSS, but I'm genuinely baffled by how GF didn't think of fixing that when almost every other aspect of the game was improved in the remakes.
@ i generally prefer playing BDSP as the main of playing Gen 4, but not a fan of the style bar the lighting. The grand underground was really fun and gave more pokemon to use and the elite 4 was great for me
Well HGSS is still LEAGUES better than whatever BDSP was. So it's hard not to look at HGSS a lot more fondly over the years since it does people were so disappointed with BDSP. Therefore not taking it's flaws more seriously
I would definitely rather play BDSP over the original DP if given the option... but if we add Platinum into the mix than I'd immediately go for that anyday over BDSP
I'm no game developer but like you said it's so baffling that Gamefreak STILL didn't feel like fixing the level curve when it was such an easy fix for them. Literally just some minor tweaks and one HUGE issue is solved.
I actually love Ledian’s design but I agree it’s stats need some work
If Ledian had a third stage evolution than the entire line would've been way cooler but as it stands now it's pretty bad
I feel like it's ignored as well, it only exists in BDSP bcoz it's a Gen 2 mon. Not just ledian, even Sunflora,Magcargo,Unown...................
For Jasmine's gym not having trainers or a puzzle, I actually really don't mind (given that the other gyms should be a lot less lazy as they are). As you helped her so much in the story and she just wants to give you the badge as easy as possible as a thank you, works for me canonically.
the real Gym was the entire lighthouse all along 👀
I've seen people say that about Jasmine and her gym and honestly I respect it. But idk for me literally having nothing in her gym still feels like a cop-out, especially considering how late in the game her gym is
Ledian is not my favorite, but I do like it
Used it in Alola
Fair enough, Ledian is a Pokemon I find does have some potential, that just isn't fully realized at all
@ It’s a decent early game support, pretty meh in a playthrough, like a lot of early game bugs. And like those… useless in competitive…
I also like Ledian because it's a cute little lady bug guy who stays cute even evolved
GSC were supposed to be like "What activity am I going to engage in today?" Not the "What story is the game going to force down my throat!?" Approach that most Pokemon games do nowadays. That's why the legendaries are optional in GSC vs. being mandatory.
People get mad they don't know how to play the game and blame the game. The fact people don't get that Tyrantiar is a reward and shouldn't be given in dark cave pre badge one is absolutely insane.
If D.A.M. Champion has a sequel, I hope it will be as good as Pokemon Heart Gold and Soul Silver
3:05 i love ledian. Milo from boarding party had one, and I've loved it ever since
The ledian line would've benefited a lot more if had a third stage evolution and was bug/fighting. A lot of missed potential on it imo
8:44 The Pokelethon doesn't help with getting evolution items.
I didn't really mention that tho?
I still love Pokemon HGSS despite the game's flaws, The good about it really outweigh the bad imo, I'm still very glad this game is a fan favorite in the Pokemon community and many people still love it, I think it deserves it despite it's flaws. A 10/10 score for a game doesn't mean it's completely flawless, Every game has it's faults, 10/10 I think just means it's a masterpiece that you love it so much that it's flaws don't ruin the experience for you. My favorite Pokemon game ever is Platinum, And even I admit that game has some issues that people overlook.
Pokemon HGSS are definitely still great games no doubt about it, but I still made this video because I feel like a lot of it's flaws are constantly overlooked especially when it's flaws are something that's critisced in other Pokemon games
No one loves johto for johto they love it for kanto, red and pokemon walking behind you 😭😭🙏
People love the traditional aspect of Johto which I can respect… but imo they’d definitely rank as one of the more “bad” regions in my opinion
@theglasshalffull6958 yeah. The thing is, if gamefreak released a johto based game without kanto, everyone would be mad 😭😭
Idk if any of these “issues” are things people were somehow unaware of but they are fair critiques but I and it seems like many others still like HG/SS more than any other game in the series
To be fair the Johto games were meant to be the final games in the franchise upon conception
People often say that Johto was just an expansion to Kanto, and while I see what they mean it still doesn't excuse the their flaws and how underbaked they feel compared to other regions
@@theglasshalffull6958I think that it mostly excuses Gold and Silver especially since there was zero precedent of a “new region” or even a new generation going into that gen. But HGSS’s shortcomings are much less defensible
5:48 dude what? Your hair looks absolutely fine, why the hate? 😭
YES!!! Please talk bad about the game so the market value goes down 😭 I need a physical copy so baddd
…sorry to break it to you bud but I don’t think it works like that
Im coming into this video with an "I Call bullshit" attitude.. if i edit this then my mind was changed.. to be determined
I shall patiently wait for your decision…
@theglasshalffull6958 i finished with at least a new appreciation for meganium.. because yeah it sucks but nostalgia tho.. i feel like your criticisms are valid, however my biased opinion is still weighing the pros over the grievances you presented.. i was 12 years old when i got to experience my chosen pocket monster to follow me.. they even made gyarados big af i think.. and that alone keeps me locked into positive overview of the gen2 remakes. (Crystal was my first game too).... so in closing yeah this was bullshit but i dont think everyone else will agree with me..
@@theglasshalffull6958also you took the time to reply to me so SUBBED
I mean HGSS was one of my first Pokemon games as well but I still wanted to give it all the necessary criticism I think they deserve.
Still good games tho
And hey if you found some kind of appreciation for Meganium then I think I’ve successfully completed my job
I try my best to respond to any comment I get, I mean if you took time out of your day to respond than I wanted to do the same
(Also thanks for the subscribe dude much appreciated 🙏🏻)
Yknow, every time I see someone criticize hgss, I always see other fans dogging on the person who don’t think hgss is a gift from god. That’s why I always say “don’t fuck with Pokémon fans. We won’t respect your opinion if it’s different.”
Older Pokémon games are looked at such a high standard it’s crazy. Some of it is deserved but man the bias for Johto specifically is crazy
Try being a person in the Pokemon community who genuinely enjoys playing Scarlet and Violet. If you praise SV at all in conversation: "But it's a buggy mess!" "It runs at -3 FPS!" "You're a Nintendo shill!"
Trust me I actually really liked scarlet and violet despite its glaring flaws, and whenever I tried to praise those games in some way in my other video I got a bunch of comments telling me that I’m just coping/a gamefreak apologist
@Wheeler07 me being an SV enjoyer seeing so many people that want to bring back 2D despite me being hugely against it
And also like every conversation being about the graphics or performance and not anything else
@@Tierd Yeah it really sucks that all people want to talk about is the graphics. Meanwhile SV has arguably the best story in the series' history. Not to mention very enjoyable gameplay.
Ahh yes, the legendary dogs, the Tiger, the Lion and the leopard. Legendary beasts is what they are called. was that you misremembering?
I’ve seen people refer to them as the “legendary dogs” sometimes so I decided to call them that here.
Although I guess your right, the beasts aren’t very dog like when I really think about it
As a fan of Crystal I didn't like HGSS that much when it came out, it felt like a downgrade from Platinum and in some ways even from DP. Many of the character redesigns were horrible too, it wasn't as bad as ORAS but the Johto region was special to me so I was hoping for something better. Honestly, the only Pokémon remake that was good is FRLG.
After seeing some comments regarding how people view ORAS and BDSP it made me realize that Gamefreak takes a really weird step backwards with remakes in that they recreate what’s essentially inferior versions of those regions. Emerald and Platinum are essentially just definitive versions of their predecessors in which most Pokémon fans can agree that the third versions are better, then when it comes to their remakes they take away many aspects people thought should’ve been included because of how good their third versions are. FRLG isn’t really included since there wasn’t really a third version to those games (except for yellow but that barely counts)
I'm playing them rn and I can say that they're really good for shiny hunting (cough... Cute charm... Hack... Wheeze...)
There's a lot of fans out there who only play for the competitive scene, shiny hunting or... just casual senseless fun and in that sense a lot of my critiques doesn't really matter for them lol
@theglasshalffull6958 agreed. I dread playing through the game again. The shit that pisses me off the most is the level disparity from the wild mons and trainers because grinding becomes a fucking pain
Oddly enough they say these games are made for kids but I promise in my lifetime I have yet to see a kid or friends kids playing pokemon, watching pokemon, buying pokemon toy, playing the TCG, or collecting them.
Every time I go to my local card store for Pokemon singles, there's a small-ish child looking at them with their parent too, and it's the kid who wants the cards c: Last summer, I also got self-repackaged TCG mystery packs being sold by a boy at a garage sale, and they were wrapped in colored construction paper with printed out pokeballs on printer paper taped to them. I bought all of them from him because I was tickled, and they were all filled with... pretty much trash cards LOL including two that were straight up fakes made out of weird plastic with all text in the wrong font.
I think I’ve come across kids here and there playing Pokémon, but not as much as you may think. Perhaps most parents tell their kids to keep their switch’s at home when they go out but I’m not a parent so I can’t say for sure
Pokémon is definitely targeted towards kids but Gamefreak is definitely aware of how many older fans there are as well.
@@Dokkiish That sounds awesome! But I'm just wondering why it's so rare where I am and none of my friends' kids even mention Pokémon even though their parents are huge fans.
@@toxicmelody6228 I feel like Pokemon can be one of those things that gets cycled out when kids go through their phase of wanting to grow up and seen more grown up, which seems to be happening earlier and earlier now, but there's also more competition for IPs that kids may latch onto in this day and age compared to much older times when Pokemon capitalized on the scarcer variety in the games market. The influence of other kids at school I bet affects your area since if Pokemon isn't "in" at the playground/lunch table, then it's harder to keep interest if none of your friends want to talk about/play with you O: many variables as to why, but at least the franchise isn't dying :D
Well it's funny because even by the time I turned 9 years old I already saw a lot of my friends at the time call Pokemon childish and would rather play Call of Duty or something along those lines. So Who know's how much parents are keeping track of what kids are playing nowadays. Honestly I'm moreso curious to see what percent of Pokemon fans lie under kids, teens and adults because from what I see I feel like a lot more adults play Pokemon rather than kids
0:36 Aramaki mentioned 🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🌲🌲🐂🐂
Glad to see someone got the reference👍
I do agree with most of critiques of Johto, however I think the fairest comparision is not what came after, but FRLG. Their point is pretty much "hey it's Kanto, but now the mechanics work", the pokedex is even more limited (yes I'm still pissed that you need a national dex to get Crobat) and they also don't add a lot to the story. HGSS follow the same philosophy: they've followed the og games and added or expanded everything that already existed. Kanto? Check. Rematches? Check. Suicune plot? Check. Walking pokemon from Yellow? CHECK. HGSS got a little more freedom to add stuff in remakes, but still plays it super safe.
Adressing 37:17 the spiteful feel is not having lacking a battle frontier, but THE Battle Frontier, the thing the people who played the same game for idk how many years wanted to see in a new gen, in the same way HGSS did to its crystal stuff (and the walking pokemon from yellow)
Damn I never knew that FRLG never actually included evolutions of Kanto Pokemon into the game, feels like a weird missed opportunity. But I guess a lot of people just liked the act that the games weren't super buggy AND was modernized enough (at least you can actually Run now lol)
And yes I still understand the frustrations of not having a battle frontier, and it makes me wonder why didn't Gamefreak just decide to remake the superior version in Emerald (which can also be said for BDSP as well)
@@theglasshalffull6958 to clarify, FRLG had the evolutions, but even if you had the conditions to evolve (crobat being the easiest example) they're locked out until Oak gives you the National dex in the post game. Both games do the locking items behind the post game like you've pointed out, but HGSS at least added the pokemon that evolve by knowing a move (mamoswine, ambipom, etc) to the johto dex to make it less of an issue.
I think the remaking two game is the same vibe of making two versions in the first place (and possibly more money? If the same person buys 2 games), what baffles me is not taking upgrades from third versions like platinum dex (haven't played BDSP, so that's all I know that they've missed)
6:15 me complaining about Houndout still not being able to be caught in game until after the league for the last 12 years.
The cop out response given by Nintendo being "because we want to stop game renting, its cutting into our profits."
This is why FireRed and Leaf green BS is carried over into Gen 4.
Houndour isn't even like a sudo-legendary or supposed to a rare Pokemon, so it confuses me even more that something like it or a misdreavus HAD to only be available after the game
Solid points, even if I don't agree with everything.
Glad you can see where I'm coming from. Can't say that about a lot of other comments lol
30:50 honestly i'm totally down for spectacle over story. i don't think JRPGs or RPGs have a good story if they can wow you with the visuals or art direction of a game. maybe bc im a comic book/novel reader, but if i wanted a bunch of dialogue id just read the Pokemon manga or a fanfic.
I prefer the ability to explore a beautiful world with a mediocre story rather than being strapped to a Clockwork Orange chair to read thru SM or USUM.
This was an interesting piece of lore I wasn't aware about before, and really gives context to how underutilized the Johto Pokemon were in the original games. and is something that could've really been fixed when the remakes came out but alas, was left unchanged. You mind explaining where exactly you've seen this? I've never heard about it until now
I enjoyed HGSS and Crystal like I can enjoy a regular Pokémon game. But I always felt like there's a lot missing or feels random or sometimes even boring in the Johto games as a kid. The only real good thing that stood out to me was the representation of culture and lore. And the music of course, which is typical for Pokémon games.
But from the level-curve, having two regions (which was necessary because Johto is way too small and post-game Kanto was rushed), the unrelated/unimportant Team Rocket or the lack of variety of Gen2 Pokémon, these games always were one of my least favorite games, generations and regions (only Kanto [because of the Kanto-pushing in every fkn generation and it made me feel annoyed over the years] and Galar are worse to me).
For the positive aspects, I could see and respect why Johto is the favorite region for some people and the legendaries are phenomenal but there are so much things that they should've fixed already in HGSS.
11:15
Your aviators are leaning very hard and could use a wipe down.
I like ledian's design...
Maybe if it had an evolution it would be a lot cooler, but now I just see it as mid
Why Pokémon HeartGold And SoulSilver are Worse Than You Remember*
Damn is the grammar of the title actually wrong? I put the title into quill or so I thought it was fine but maybe I’m just worse at the English language than I thought lmao
Pokémon HeartGold and SoulSilver are the best classic pokemon games of all time. However I consider Pokemon Legends Arceus the best pokemon game of all time, since they really did went beyond to introduce the most unique mechanics in entire franchise, and the historical setting is really something else.
Ps. This comes from a fan that played the original Pokemon Silver, and Gold games when they came out. Also getting the trade evolutions mechanics suck, and Pokemon Legends Arceus earns a lot of points in my opinion for get riding of this mechanics.
When you say classic do you mean every Pokémon game that was made in 2D? Because I think black/white, Black2/White2 and platinum can give them a good run for their money.
however, saying that legends arceus is the best Pokémon game of all time is an interesting take but.. I might be inclined to agree with you. Idk I need to really think about it but Legends Arceus is definitely up there imo
@@theglasshalffull6958 the 5th gen games are superior to HG/SS
HGSS are the most overrated "classic" Pokemon games. They are easily worse than Emerald, Platinum and BW2 among many others
@@PMar797 Storywise Gen 4/5 is better, but you cannot visit 2 regions.
@@bacd-nn2lg and visiting 2 regions means jack when one region sucks, and the other is a downgrade of one that most people have already visited. Hoenn, Sinnoh and Unova, among others, are better regions than Johto and the downgraded Kanto combined
ALRIGHT I GET IT
HGSS glazing is a bit too common
I never really understood the praise. It fixed barely anything
And added so much
I only saw it as quantity over quality.
A lot of fan’s priorities content/gameplay over everything else tbf, and if a non-Pokémon were to ask me which Pokémon game would give them the most bang for their buck id probably go with HGSS, even tho there is a lot flaws about it
While i had fun with hgss, i feel like there was nothing else to do after you beat Red. And yeah, this is coming from someone who never really played them growing up.
It just got annoying hearing people saying that this is the best game ever but after you're done, there's no real side quests or anything else to go back to. Unless you're competitive i guess but, I'm not. I could care less about the battle frontier. Edit: when I made this, didn't know there were other areas to catch other legendaries
Also fun fact, i got a shiny suicine via soft resetting in both oras and ultra sun while watching this. So i guess thanks for the shiny boost.
Also why do people call them legendary dogs? 1 is a sabertooth cat, one is more dog like and the other... I'm not sure what Entei is so legendary beasts seems more fitting. I guess you can argue that the leaked beta sprites of them are dogs but not now.
Well I will say that Red is the ultimate final boss which comes after getting all 16 gym badges and exploring every area of johto and kanto, so I felt pretty satisfied content-wise after beating Red, so I will defend the games in that aspect if nothing less.
Also regarding the whole legendary dogs thing, back in the day I remember people called them the legendary dogs because it was a mistranslation and were actually supposed to be called the "legendary beasts" but for some reason that epithet stuck with me all this time so I instinctively called them that in the video.
I still say the original GSC clears HGSS and it's not even close
Really?? I can see the argument for crystal but I don't really get how the remakes are inferior to the originals, graphically and performance wise I don't see a good reason to play them over HGSS, so why do you think that?
I feel like a lot of this video is spent comparing Johto against standards set by later games. Gold and Silver were created with a totally different design philosophy than anything after, because it's a true sequel to Kanto.
For example, the entire Team Rocket section just left me saying "that's the point" to basically every argument. Team Rocket IS a poor group of leftovers pining for Giovanni. Their leader is literally a nobody. That's why it's so great, lol. It was so strange to me seeing it presented as a negative.
I guess I'm someone who doesn't think ever Pokemon game needs a large scale main villain...
Johto Pokemon being rare in Johto is part of why I grew so attached to many of them. Skarmory being in one specific late game location made it a very memorable encounter for me. It wouldn't be the same if they were all over the place, lol.
The Kanto commons returning back as the Johto commons was a matter of course. Those creatures were all we knew, and it's not like a gym leader has to use Johto Pokemon... The Johto gyms just covered the rest of the typings not done in Kanto after all.
You definitely view these games in a much more different light than I do I guess. I understand that Team Rocket is filled with a bunch of misfits and without their leader they can't really function on their own but in no way does the game tries to make me care about whatever they're up to. If they had a leader that at least showed up more than one time maybe I could've cared more but as it stands them and they're endeavours feel pretty pointless.
And for sure the game is able to have their rare Pokemon for sure, but when so many Johto Pokemon are only available in like 1 place found after you beat the game (where you'd most likely already have a full team of 6) it just feels like a pretty weird design choice when one of the biggest appeals of a new Pokemon game is finding out what new creatures there are for you to catch. Not finding ones you're already used to seeing from before
HGSS were my second favorite games in the entire series for YEARS...... until I went back to play it again this year and found out about the Shiny stone. Cuz that's CRAZY.
It’s such an insane fact that I cannot believe people haven’t caught onto sooner. Like fuck it’s almost like Gamefreak is begging you to just box your togepi while you can
2:19
Why is the chainsaw man doggo here? That's not a pokemon lmao.
I felt the need to include pochita because he's awesome
Nitpicking: The Review
Pls make more about the other games too. Pt, BDSP, Gen 5,6,7,8 & SV
I'll say a big maybe, sorta wanted to see how well this video would perform first. Ngl the only generation I have an incentive to talk about would be gen 7 but idk what exactly I'm gonna do next
I… like Ledian..
You and I have very different opinions on Pokemon (Umbreon is pretty cool tho)
4:39 How dare you speak bad about Baabu.
Baabu = jumpluff line?
Nah. The game is as goated as it was back in '09.
It’s a good game all around for sure, but it took a long time to realize there’s a lot more flaws than I originally thought there were
Maybe goated for a Johto game, but it's much weaker than most other mainline titles. Y'all Johto fans are blinded by nostalgia and can't accept constructive criticism even when it's in your face (like this video)
@@PMar797 bro really played the "blinded by nostalgia" card thinking it would prove anything other than what a shitter he is LOL.
Pls More pkmn Video Essays like this 🙏
Depending on how well this video does I may be able to provide more in the future! (Legends ZA is coming out sometime next year after all)
@@theglasshalffull6958 Pls make more about the other games too. Pt, BDSP, Gen 5,6,7,8 & SV
Actually the reason for Lugia is cause he created the storm to stop the second tower aka the silver tower that Lugia lived at. that we know as the burning Tower from burning up the fuckin dogs as his storm an power was to much for humans to deal with hence why he stay at whirl island to quell his power an to find someone who is capable of with standing his power aka the protagonist
30:19
An yes ho-oh did bring the legandary doggo back but it was only cause he felt bad that three doggo died due to Lugia uncontrollable power is how you can look at it but it kinda just explained a lot of you really just look at the burnt tower in general
But ye I do agree with some of your point just remember that Lugia an ho-oh represent what they are
Ho-oh had a heart of gold an care about lives hence why he brought the doggo back kindness
Lugia care about not hurting anyone with his power of the weather a soul of silver a pure an noble thing to understand
If anything yes I do think the whole team rocket thing was pretty badly done an they could of at least given us way to get certain pokemon evolution through that way like idk around the third gym badge you could of went to Ecruteak city an as you went to the kimono girls first show you could of sat down. An watch it but suddenly a group of team rocket people would barrage in an try to steal the kimono girls to make them dance an bring back the legandary maybe you could of battle them all off from each kimono girl the reason they barrage in is because archer heard of the story's of the burnt tower an Wanted the legendary himself AT LEAST IT GIVE him a purpose!?! A way to make him rememberable.....
An don't get me started on the gym leaders......just give the flying gym leader a dam yanma an a under level no towel
Gamefreak: "OH BUT WE CAN'T-"
That didn't stop y'all from giving him a lv 9 PIGEOTTO!?!
Look I still love jotho cuz of the music the atmosphere an stuff an the story even tho it trash- I just
Bro sleeping on daddy volkner
Yeah ok he’s pretty dope as well (better than raihan tho?)
@theglasshalffull6958 easily. He has luxray. Instant w
God I hope this blows up. So well made, and you definitely deserve hundreds of thousands of subs
Thanks! As always I put a lot of time into every video I make, and seeing people recognize my efforts will always make all that effort I put in worth it :)
I dont think the pokemon community will ever TRULY come to a mutual agreement on which game is worst or best. since alot of that ties into what that person fav pokemon or rival character is. at least in my experience. I'm 100% guilty of it myself. my fav gens are gen 2, gen 8 and gen 9. some of my fav pokemon are eevee, miraidon, zacian typhlosion, cubone, entei... my fav rivals are Silver, Bede and Kieran. you see the pattern lol I'm sure most people who favor gen 2 have fav pokemon or fav trainers from that gen and that applies to other regions too.
Pokemon by nature is a really nostalgia-based series for sure, whichever game you played first will 100% play a role in how fondly you'll remember them. But having said that I'm surprised your favourite gens are so far apart from each other. Well at least jumping from gen 2 all the way to gen 8 is surprising to me at least. Any specific reasons for that?
Following pokemon is why everyone loves this one. We all know it
That's definitely a major reason for sure lol
It's a big reason, but that's just a cute feature. Nothing more
If people think pressing A on a following sprite is riveting, then they have a poor concept of what makes good gameplay
You underestimate the power of cute features. (I mean even I can't resist it in HGSS)
@@theglasshalffull6958 oh I don't disagree with how charming cute features can be. They can definitely make a game memorable
That said, cute features don't automatically make a game good or better than others