Trying this in January to February, resting my arm for a while before then. Never threw a good changeup. I supinate and throw a pretty good curveball so hopefully this helps thanks
You can think "throw it like a fastball" if you already cut the ball as a supinator. Trying to lean into the SSW rather than forcing yourself into pronation
Thanks for making a video on the kick change! I’ve been throwing one for about a year now. Kills vert and gets me some run when I would cut a splitter or normal change.(heavy supinator)
Hey Tread! If you don't mind me asking... what preliminary criteria determines whether or not a pitcher can successfully throw a pitch like this kick change? They were saying the same thing (about preliminary criteria) for a seam shifting wake changeup. Apparently there is a criteria to these pitches?
For me when i'm throwing the kick change, I think about pulling my thumb down like im trying to touch my pinky finger with my thumb. This really helps me get that right action im looking for. Thoughts?
Sounds like the opposite of how the Kick Change functions. It's a ring and middle finger dependent pitch and that sounds like you may be cue-ing pronation led by the thumb?
Based on the spin i see, i don't understand the movement of the ball. It's got tilted back spin. How does that make the ball drop? I would think top spin would be necessary to make the ball drop like that?
@@treadathletics interesting. At the end of the day though, it's back spin, so it still blows my mind how that makes the ball dip down. Goes against everything I've been told about spin in the past. Very cool!
@@treadathletics Very cool! Never heard about that. I also found another video you guys did that was an interview and the dude explained it with the airplane analogy. Thanks so much!
Would it be safe pitch for my arm? I’m 13 and throw a 4 seam and curve and looking to throw a pitch that goes armside and pronating a normal changeup just isn’t my thing.
i know that kevin gausman recently changed his splitter grip and in slow motion, it looks like a kick change grip in the hand, is he throwing a kick change now?
apparently the old grip was too unreliable and sometimes had backspin rather than side spin, combined with the ssw made it a two seamer that went to the wrong places
If your sinker is in that region, you can likely expect to get into the negatives with it. We obviously would need a lot more info about your arsenal and natural biases to give you an accurate target though
Can it be thrown too slow? When I was throwing it, it was 12-14mph slower and was coming out splitter like. it had sub 800 spin with under 3 ivb and around 12-15 ihb consistently
Yes, that's too slow for this pitch. For some, it can still be effective, but it sounds like you're just killing spin rather than shifting the axis down while maintaining velo, which is the goal of the pitch
@@treadathletics i have a supination bias, should it feel straight off my middle finger like a fastball or moving horizontally off my fingertips like a slider?
No smartass-ness here , but Do you feel better , more natural and more comfortable with certain pitches (ones that require either pronation or supination) than the other. For example, I can't throw a pronated changeup to save my life, but I can very comfortably throw sliders, curves , slurves etc. When I try to pronate (wrist turning into my body) It just feels wrong for how I naturally throw a ball and the results are trash. I tell my son (who is a pronator) , don't fight what feels right when throwing the ball , adjust what pitch you want to throw based on what your body is telling you. If a normal changeup doesn't feel forced to you, or a two seam, you probably are leaning towards a pronation bias.
Will be expanding on this further in the future. We run assessments with our athletes to identify their body's preferences ua-cam.com/video/Wy5ZcQu-12s/v-deo.html
Love the Tread stuff normally. I’m a fan. I’m also spoiled because many of your other videos show, very close up, very slo motion, very specific grips to try. This one is shot from 15 feet away, moves too fast and does not enough detail. I’d love a better breakdown in the future.
He literally said in this video that most of the "popular' pitches have been around since the 50's (give or take) but modern technology allows them to identify why they work, how they work and how to teach them increasing how effective they can be and to whom they apply.
@driklol My apologies, i didnt have the patience to watch the whole video. That is a good clarification. Like the "sweeper" and all this other nonsense on calling the same pitches different names it comes down to how they react to different pirchers thowing them.
Never need this video more in my life
Very Amusing that Birdsong just picked it up from one of your athletes and it was showing 160stuff+ in mlb like 8 months later, cool!
Davis Martin just started throwing it a few outings ago with the White Sox as well!
x.com/ArtOfBaseball/status/1824870916259754194
Leif really clutched up with this one!! Been throwing this pitch but just needed a few pointers
gonna have to try this out, always struggled with changeups and my split is so day-day as well as too close in velo to fb, only like 4-6 mph slower
i found it super helpful to think of extending my middle finger as i release to give the ball sidespin and kick it
Trying this in January to February, resting my arm for a while before then. Never threw a good changeup. I supinate and throw a pretty good curveball so hopefully this helps thanks
Should you be thinking about cutting this if your a supination bias guy? Or just throw it like a fastball? Or try to pronate?
You can think "throw it like a fastball" if you already cut the ball as a supinator. Trying to lean into the SSW rather than forcing yourself into pronation
Best pitch for supinators hands down, way easier to gain feel faster versus a split
Hands down is pronation.... da da chhh
For supinators do you want to throw supination for this pitch? Or pronate or throw like fastball
@@arkanoosh6344 supinate for seam shifted wake
Thanks for making a video on the kick change! I’ve been throwing one for about a year now. Kills vert and gets me some run when I would cut a splitter or normal change.(heavy supinator)
Hey Tread! If you don't mind me asking... what preliminary criteria determines whether or not a pitcher can successfully throw a pitch like this kick change? They were saying the same thing (about preliminary criteria) for a seam shifting wake changeup. Apparently there is a criteria to these pitches?
Both pronators and supinators can throw this pitch, so it's more friendly than SSW!
@treadathletics thanks! Do you guys have a video about pronation vs. supination?
We do! Here's the link:
ua-cam.com/video/CYFdqhnBM-k/v-deo.html
For me when i'm throwing the kick change, I think about pulling my thumb down like im trying to touch my pinky finger with my thumb. This really helps me get that right action im looking for. Thoughts?
Sounds like the opposite of how the Kick Change functions. It's a ring and middle finger dependent pitch and that sounds like you may be cue-ing pronation led by the thumb?
What makes the kick / spiked more valuable than simply a gripped 2 seam circle change?
Based on the spin i see, i don't understand the movement of the ball. It's got tilted back spin. How does that make the ball drop? I would think top spin would be necessary to make the ball drop like that?
Shifting the axis downward is the main thing. Some pronators who throw it can also lean into SSW which will shoot the ball down as well
@@treadathletics interesting. At the end of the day though, it's back spin, so it still blows my mind how that makes the ball dip down. Goes against everything I've been told about spin in the past. Very cool!
Here's a video about seam shifted wake that we made!
ua-cam.com/users/shortsNWObkD3T9uM?feature=share
@@treadathletics Very cool! Never heard about that. I also found another video you guys did that was an interview and the dude explained it with the airplane analogy. Thanks so much!
Yes! Our conversation with Brian Bannister also dives into it!
From someone on the outside. What is the difference between a Kick Change and a circle change?
Different grips and spin direction
Would this pitch work for sidearmers? I’ve been trying to get a changeup but I’ve never been able to find one
It can! Here's one of our athletes with a lower slot throwing it:
instagram.com/p/C9VhQPqBeG9/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
@@treadathletics I just threw this in my bullpen today and it worked FLAWLESSLY! Thank you for showing me this and adding a new weapon to my arsenal
Do you think this pitch would pair well with a sidearm pitcher or you think that over the top pitcher would benefit more
Works for pitchers with all kinds of slots
Would it be safe pitch for my arm? I’m 13 and throw a 4 seam and curve and looking to throw a pitch that goes armside and pronating a normal changeup just isn’t my thing.
should be just as safe as a fastball since you’re not pronating through release but i’m no biomechanist
Yeah makes sense
i know that kevin gausman recently changed his splitter grip and in slow motion, it looks like a kick change grip in the hand, is he throwing a kick change now?
Any chance you can link a clip of it?
apparently the old grip was too unreliable and sometimes had backspin rather than side spin, combined with the ssw made it a two seamer that went to the wrong places
i put a comment here with some links about it, it seemed to disappear, hrmm
I love to hit the kick-change ⚾️
What is the ideal IVB and IHB on this pitch? For context, I throw my sinker at 6-9 IVB with 12-16 IHB at 86-88.
If your sinker is in that region, you can likely expect to get into the negatives with it. We obviously would need a lot more info about your arsenal and natural biases to give you an accurate target though
Can it be thrown too slow? When I was throwing it, it was 12-14mph slower and was coming out splitter like. it had sub 800 spin with under 3 ivb and around 12-15 ihb consistently
Yes, that's too slow for this pitch. For some, it can still be effective, but it sounds like you're just killing spin rather than shifting the axis down while maintaining velo, which is the goal of the pitch
I used to have a very bad change up untill now @tread athletes
Awesome to hear!
It is Ssw changeup that drops more with less spin👍🏻😬
how should it feel off my hand if im getting it right?
Like it's coming off of your middle finger. It'll feel different for pitchers who are supination biased vs. pronation biased
@@treadathletics i have a supination bias, should it feel straight off my middle finger like a fastball or moving horizontally off my fingertips like a slider?
You'll be cutting it then, so it can feel more like a cutter/fastball if you're already supinating at release
伊藤大海が投げると聞いて
How do I know if I am a pronator or supinator?
No smartass-ness here , but Do you feel better , more natural and more comfortable with certain pitches (ones that require either pronation or supination) than the other. For example, I can't throw a pronated changeup to save my life, but I can very comfortably throw sliders, curves , slurves etc. When I try to pronate (wrist turning into my body) It just feels wrong for how I naturally throw a ball and the results are trash.
I tell my son (who is a pronator) , don't fight what feels right when throwing the ball , adjust what pitch you want to throw based on what your body is telling you. If a normal changeup doesn't feel forced to you, or a two seam, you probably are leaning towards a pronation bias.
Will be expanding on this further in the future. We run assessments with our athletes to identify their body's preferences
ua-cam.com/video/Wy5ZcQu-12s/v-deo.html
Watch their video from a couple days ago.
Prone=palm down
Supine=palm up
Which one feels better for you?
Love the Tread stuff normally. I’m a fan. I’m also spoiled because many of your other videos show, very close up, very slo motion, very specific grips to try. This one is shot from 15 feet away, moves too fast and does not enough detail. I’d love a better breakdown in the future.
Close ups provided at the 1:51 and 2:16 and slow motion release can be seen at 3:04 which you can feel free to pause as well!
Safer than a splitter?
Minimal injury risk with this one. Leaning into your motor preferences alleviates injury risk
I'd rather throw the rising knuckle curve 😅
the only thing left to identify is who could throw the reverse snk like hader hahaha
That pitch has been around for 30 years
Where?
He literally said in this video that most of the "popular' pitches have been around since the 50's (give or take) but modern technology allows them to identify why they work, how they work and how to teach them increasing how effective they can be and to whom they apply.
@driklol My apologies, i didnt have the patience to watch the whole video. That is a good clarification. Like the "sweeper" and all this other nonsense on calling the same pitches different names it comes down to how they react to different pirchers thowing them.
@Ethan888. everywhere. Modifications like that to the circle change were pretty routine.
I was hoping others could help me out. In the 1980’s-early 90’s, Doyle Alexander used to throw a Circular Change. Is it the same as this change up??
Splitfinger beats them all
WTF is a DEATH ball?
ua-cam.com/users/shorts24PY2_iM7RA
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