I do this constantly I watch videos and look at images of tourist trains and special trains running now and mix and match. Most railways now have to work with what they have to hand and whats in operational condition. Good and insightful video.
I saw a Southern 4-CEP in the BR Blue/grey livery that had been in some sort of accident. The original green paint was showing up underneath the dents. The correct name for the blood and custard livery is 'crimson lake and cream'. A journalist made up the 'carmine and cream' name and the error has been widely spread.
Anothewr great video Charlie ... and it just so happened my daughter brought me some railway magazines today from some one she cleans for and there was a leaflet called "British Railways Titled Train Formations 1950 - 1965 " .. John
Non-rotating tender wheels. Charlie, I think you've discovered a here-to-for unknown track cleaning method! I always loved the old English corridor passenger cars. The staple of all black & white English mystery & drama films. Thanks for the tour.
It's nice to watch your videos again this one in particular and it's always good to get passenger trains marshalled right I have the basic principle of 1st class at the London end of the train and the standard class at the other and the catering vehicle separating the first and the stand ard
Very informative Charlie, as a young 70 YO boy in AUS, I have always been confused by British coach codes and colours. Very well explained. Of course K is for corridor !!😂😂
Hi Charlie - I just want to say how much I enjoy your videos. I have been watching your channel for some time now and find myself dipping in and out of the videos very much like I used to do with my Railway Modeller magazines I subscribed to in the early 70's (the Video Index is a great idea by the way) So thank you for the sore head, the stiff back, aching knees and empty wallet! But most of all thank you for getting me back into a hobby I enjoyed as a child
Nicely done, another excellent video presentation. Not only did I learn a great deal, watching those two Warships climbing the helix was particularly striking. A marvellous piece of infrastructure in its own right, but also an excellent way to show some of the coaching stock and locomotives to particular advantage. All the best, Nige
Afternoon Charlie. Hope you and all your family are well 😀 Very interesting and well out together 👍🏻 My favourite year of train spotting was the 70s just getting to the end of colourful coaching stock especially on holiday specials at BTM on a Friday night Saturday morning stop over before heading south west lol 😆 I can remember the 08 marshalling stock on and off differently trains depending on their destination 🤣 Cheers Stevie 👍🏻
I’ve always wondered how it all panned out with livery and timing. I was only a toddler when this all happened so couldn’t take notes. Thank you for the brilliant video 😉 I’ve actually learnt something useful today 😂
I grew up near Crewe and although I was never a trainspotter I did like trains and used to watch them go past the village all the time, I never used to like mixed carriages though, and as this was the 70s and 80s it was a common occurrence, unlike today I would say (not that I know - lived abroad for 20 years). But anyway, nice video with the usual creativity and fascination.
Thank you Charlie, I asked and you delivered. Nice one Sir. Very informative and together with the Freight Wagon video will be viewed again and again. Thank you.
Thanks for this video. This, and your video on freight wagons, is making me more thoughtful on what I put together as a train and in what order, and may well influence what I buy in future as well. You are doing us all a great service.
I enjoyed seeing the variety of coaches found on our railways and their different designs and liveries. As regards the scale ratio, Charlie, it is generally referred to as 1:76 which is an approximation. There are 304.8mm to the foot and as the modelling scale is 4mm to 1ft, if you divide 304.8 by 4 you get 76.2, hence 1:76.2 is the precise ratio, as defined in the P4 Standards. P4 scale is 4mm to 1 foot, but unlike OO scale, applies to everything including the wheel and track standards used by the prototype, from which the P4 Standards are derived. The tolerance allowed in the P4 Standard is generally a maximum of 0.1mm, hence the need to work to a precise scale ratio. Have a good weekend. Best, Jason.
Thanks for sharing. It's look like you have a MK1 and MK2 eastern region coachs but this does matter as BR mixed the region up anyway. In the 60s they mixed the colours up .you can find a number of photos with the difference rakes of coaching stock. I am making up the Bournemouth to York service which has green and maroon coaching stock. Look forward to your next video 👍😃
Thank you, Charlie. Whilst I realise the point of your fabulous posts are to discuss model railway issues, which i much enjoy, I loved the slightly longer video of trains running this week. Please keep going! Best wishes, Michael x
Got it in one Charlie...cleared some of the fog from this addled brain...you have managed to answer the questions that we lurkers didn't dare ask...thanks mate
It is amazing if one looks at old photographs, how post war shortage of cash and branch lines carried a huge variety of stock ancient and modern... A really useful video Charlie for prototypical modelers and those who like ascetics as well! Cheers!
Hi Charlie great point about length of trains up to seven coaches, I think you are spot on. Seven coaches look just about right when depicting a long express train. I think that if you go any longer some thing doesn't look quite right I think it's due to lack of prospective. Same thing with long freight trains 10 to 20 wagons look just as good as 50 plus.
Hi Charlie, another very interesting video, it gives us "food for thought" as we go about making up a rake of either Freight Wagons or Passenger Coaches. Thanks for posting. Cheers Greg
Always informative Charles, you never fail to add to our knowledge from your research, thank you. Certainly looking forward to your trains running on Chadwick, cheers Paul.
I always look forward to your videos and owe you a huge debt for the concept of projects extending beyond life expectancy. As a result I have disposed of a Land Rover and a Morris 1000 Traveller!
Hi Charlie, Nice presentation on the variety of coaches so many of us remember. I feel sure this will be of interest and of help to those outside the UK interested in and possibly modelling the UK scene. Overseas visitors might be interested to learn about the concept of Inter-Regional Trains, where the mix of coaching stock could be much more varied.......especially at holiday times......where what I might call the 'extremities' of the system, say Devon & Cornwall in the South-West, or Scotland in the North, would often see mixed coaching stock. Added to this is the fact that certain regions, or centres, could often find themselves having to reach out for additional coaches on certain trains, again for the summer period, or even for special events such as Horse Race meetings The Grand National at Aintree Racecousrse near Liverpool, comes to mind here. On such occasions the mix of coach could often be much more varied again, both in the colour of the coaches, but also in the mix of stock such as gangway / corridor stock or suburban. Keep up the good work Charlie...... Your efforts are much appreciated and as informative and delightfully entertaining as ever... James Hennighan Yorkshire, England P.S. Whilst it is possible for people to access details about just what and where the basic regions were after 1948, it might be an idea to show a brief clip of this on your site when you are discussing 'the regions'......it would certainly aid understanding for overseas visitors to your site.... Perhaps a map...? Just a suggestion.
What you call crimson we call Tuscan red. In the US they didn’t use a large contrasting color. Our buffet car we call a dinner. We also have a RPO right behind the engine set. RPO is railroad post office. I don’t know how much of the mail is carried by rail any more. I have gotten most of my passenger cars on eBay, but have bought some but in sell. Yet another great video. Charlie, you are always interesting.
Another good one, Charlie. I’ve been wondering about all those coach abbreviations for a while. There are no excuses anymore more for me mixing up air and vacuum brakes coaches just in case a rivet counter walks into my railway room.
Another brilliant video, spend most my time shunting coaching stock and still cant get my head around the letter system. A point lots of people glance over is most of the mk1 stock was converted to dual air and vac braking and dual ETH and steam heat by BR, allowing them to be used along side the newer Mk2s, as the wouldn't be aloud to be though piped (unbraked) within a passenger train.
Excellent video Charlie, thank-you. I can recall my delight on travelling from Newton Abbot (which appeared in one of the illustrative photos included) to Manchester and finding ‘for second class use’ notices stuck on first class corridor coaches. Back then, the mid 70s, I was always curious of the heating controls. Each bench seat had an independent ‘electrical heating’ control, there being a single for the ‘steam’ heating for the entire compartment. Thanks again.
Charlie, yet another very interesting video. It shows how helpful it is to get good photographs of the era, and region you are modelling, to see what was going on with wagons and coaches to reproduce an idea of what it was like. Keep up the great content. Cheers, and stay safe, Michael
Thanks Michael, I’m so pleased that you found the video interesting. The research is a fascinating aspect of video production and thoroughly enjoyable. Regards Charlie.
Hi Charlie, thanks for the video. And difficult subject simply explained. One aspect I note was missing perhaps was connecting trains of inter region stock, perhaps because of the BR theme. I am sure that they continued for quite some time after '48, and would have introduced their own variations based on pre standardised stocks. As a matter of interest a number of the LNER diners that you referenced last in use into the 80s when dual braked stock was finally withdrawn.
The compatibility issues between certain coach types Robert, was just too complex for this video.I do understand the use of adapters et cetera but I thought it would be a step too far. Regards Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway HI, it wasn't couplings I was thinking of, but actual coaching stock workings inter regionally, eg. York Bristol, or Newcastle Portsmouth. The 'portion trains' continued for quite some time after nationalisation.
Hi Charlie, spot on with this one! 👍 When I watch your videos I realise how much reading I need to do, but you give a great head start. And yes, thanks to the contributors
Another fine presentation Charlie, Thank you.👍😁 One wee detail, which I don't often see mentioned, is the simple rule that any passenger train, branch or main line, steam/diesel/electric hauled, DMU or loco hauled, pre-grouping, big four, or more modern era, must include a brake van/guard's compartment in the consist. While often the last vehicle, it can just as easily be at the front, or anywhere else in the rake but it must be there. I'm sure 99% of viewers knew that anyway but I've seen expensive locos, hauling highly-detailed stock on exhibition-standard layouts, 𝒘𝒊𝒕𝒉𝒐𝒖𝒕 a van. Apart from ignoring procedure on the real railway, it just looks wrong.😁 I'm referring to UK practice, of course. I would imagine railways in other countries would follow very similar practices but I'm sure viewers from other countries will know the real story.
Very informative video Charlie. Coaching stock is such a minefield. I’m just considering that my railway is a heritage railway and then the mix doesn’t matter in the end. Thanks for sharing and doing the research. Roy.
Another enjoyable video this time on coaching stock. Hornby Magazine has in the past given examples of train formations for specific routes which people may find useful. Thank you again and look forward to your next video.
Thanks Simon, I have the Hornby formations booklet, but the details are only from around 1970. Still, the research is quite rewarding when you get into the nitty gritty. Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie great video as always. Train formations are always interesting. Its nice to mix up coaching stock my sets are a little too uniform really. One issue I have found is I have been fitting the Hunt couplings to different designs of coaches from different manufacturers. This can make it more difficult to couple different designs together. All good fun of course
Great video Charlie. Thank you for this overview of coaching stock. In the early day's of British Railway's the Custard and Cream could vary quiet a bit as the paint shops mixed their own colours. There was no standard colour swatch to go by. Some of the cream shade could be paler or more yellow depending on where the coach was shopped. The GWR division used their own pre war cream shade. A double chimney King loco should have a loud "bark" to it's exhaust. The sound chips that are in these models sound like single chimney King's. Train spotting as a kid you knew when a double King was coming long before you saw him. Cheers, Chris Perry.
I quite fancied one of those blue/grey Gresley buffet cars so just searched on E-Bay and found a couple. Great I thought, until I saw the price tag - both a few pennies short of A HUNDRED QUID ! Utter madness ! All of a sudden, I don’t fancy one anymore 😆
Search for the ian kirk kit of one instead, it's easy to put together, no more advanced than a plastic wagon kit only longer. Save a few bob on it and end up with a coach that looks just as good in the rake from viewing distance.
hi great video as always , one point most passenger trains from 1948 run with 1st class London end. agree with your comment on pricing. the new Bachmann coaches at £75.00 are a joke on our EXTOR JC we run coaches mostly 2nd hand . best wish bob + nigel pryor
Couplings again! The connection between the class 50 and the GUV van is doing what tension locks often do when gradients change. A good reason for magnetic couplings which at least avoid this type of problem.
Hi Graham, I’m still unsure of what train to loco coupling that I will eventually choose. I do wish to uncouple with automation but magnets will not allow me to do so. However, initially, let’s use magnets and keep it on the track. Regards Charlie
Another great informative video Charlie. It is worth noting that in Cornwall trains were often "parked" at a station platform and then moved forward slightly to allow passengers in rear-ward coaches to disembark, in instances where the platform was not long enough to accommodate the whole train length in one go. I have an emotional attachment to the blue era. It may seem odd to your younger viewers but we did not own a family car until 1980. Holidays, usually on the Isle of Wight, always involved train travel. As regards motor rail terminals here in Cornwall, I cannot remember them all but St Austell and Bodmin Parkway were two. The main guts of the St Austell one still remain. Perhaps I should pop down the road and video it before it gets lost forever.
Evening Charlie, a great video, standard rake of the same colour scheme are now days of the past. Your video has opened ones eyes to the possibilities of mixed colour schemes. Have so many B&C coaches but with different colour roofs and slight variation in red/crimson. The blue mk2 also now mixed in with variations of others. Love having the same colour coaches but now open to mixed and what looks more eye catching. Well it is only a model and time to play trains….lol. Thanks for a great and interesting video, thought provoking. All best Marc
Interesting video Charlie. I have always enjoying having varied colours of coaches on my layouts. Probably goes back to living near the West Coast line near Harrow as a child and seeing the maroon liveries change to blue/grey and mixed rakes.
What an interesting video which has filled a gap in my knowledge. Your pieces are always of great detail and quality.I should be appreciative if you could do a sequel Inthe future.Terty😊
Good video Charlie on an interesting subject. Some ideas for part 2 : 1. suburban coaching stock - high density coaches for packing in commuters. 2. placing of coach types in rakes I.e. brakes at the ends of rakes, restaurant coaches between classes, restaurants with kitchen cars. 3. Placing of freight in rakes, you mentioned Syphons but also milk tankers and horse boxes which tended to be at the front of rakes to reduce the jerkiness of the ride to protect their loads. 4. Stock you can’t run i.e. air braked stock with vacuum only locos - unless you want to evoke rule 1 of course. BTW You mentioned the green painted Southern region coaches these were well distributed over other regions when the Southern region began to electrify in earnest so don’t feel you can’t run green if you don’t model the Southern. Thanks again and keep up the good work.
Hey very useful comments Simon, many thanks. I was aware of the loading of trains, but completely unaware of the restrictions with horses. Great info, regards Charlie
The southern were early adoptors of air braking in general so shuffled out vacuum brakes sooner than other regions. EtH vs steam heat is another aspect. You can't heat a steam heat train with a 33 for example, as the southern again was ahead of the other regions and moved to eth early on, though because of the 3rd rail, their eth wasn't compatible with the later eth which was designed with the 25kv system in mind, a 73 for instance can't heat a train of eth stock designed for 25kv as it can't supply enough power. The 33s were consequently more powerful than the 26s or 26s as they could fit a bigger engine with the space saving from no boiler. For a summer layout this doesn't pose too much problem, but if you run in winter if would. The southern for a short period ran double headed 33+24s in the early 60s until the new eth stock was ready. Early diesels with steam heat boilers often had problems with them, accounting for a lot of reliability problems faced.
Was a fascinating vision of British Passenger rail. Which is varied and fascinating in its own right. That was an excellent presentation, and one well aimed at the modeler and the modeler/historian (which many of us wind up being, wanted to or not). Also, the joy of a Club layout is being able to run 'proper' trains--always a boon. Seeing doubled power gave me a bit of hiccup, about the only time I've seen more than one loco was for Special "Excursion" trains. UP has one in the old Red livery with an A-B-A set of D Units that's largely a museum exhibit (I want to remember it's 10-12 custom Pullmans). UP has a set of "legacy" passenger equipment in the Gold livery that is pulled by a brace of E or F units in A-B fashion, and a Power car in a 6-8 consist. Amtrak never seems to run more than one loco, unless fitted with a Helper to get through mountains. Sadly, long gone are the Kitchen cars to serve proper Restaurant cars. Most of the Club cars (and their handy bartender) have gone to become razor blades as well.
Keep the videos coming Charlie, really enjoying the channel and have binge watched so many of your videos over the last few evenings! I'm currently working on my layout again after a 5 year hiatus, and find these so helpful and relaxing to watch. The wiring and DCC stuff is particularly enlightening. My layout is sort of flexible and based on southern third rail region from 1990s onwards - plenty of variety in freight and departmental stock as well as the Mk1 based EMUs :)
In a way, coaching stock is every bit as interesting as the locomotive pulling the train. This video is a nice simple introduction into how we can add a much greater depth to model railways without having to be expert exhibition standard scratch builders in order to set the scene. I do get that a good number of modellers out there are a bit OCD on everything having to be neat and match nicely, but that kind of spoils a model railway because the real thing was a mixed hotch potch! Carefully selecting the mix of coaches in a train can allow a layout to really tell its own story. For example a nice readily put together 3 coach train formed thus of models quite easily bought at reasonable cost second hand, lets analyse it...Bachmann 3F in BR Early Crest, Hornby Stanier corridor brake third in BR Maroon, Bachmann P1 panelled Corridor Composite in Crimson/Cream, Bachmann Porthole brake third in Crimson/Cream. The first thing that stands out with this service is the mix of liveries, both pre-1956 and post 1956, so its safe to say its after 1956, but the old panelled coach and higher emphasis on crimson and cream stock along with the early crest locomotive tells us its closer to 1956. This is also backed up by there being no Mk1 stock, which was still being built to replace these older vehicles. The next thing it tells us is that everything is of LMS origin, and that tender engine on a short corridor stock train tells us it is a longer distance service on a lesser used route. We can narrow that down a bit further too...the engine is an old Midland Railway design, so that puts us on a quiet backwoods route of the former Midland Railway portion of the LMS in the latter part of the 1950s. Why this particular engine and coaches? I have a photo of exactly this train standing at Redditch station in May of 1958 on a Birmingham New Street to Evesham service, albeit a Saturday extra so the train was shorter than normal to reflect the lower traffic and a normally freight engine was in use in place of the more usual 4P 2-6-4 tank...but still a quiet backwoods route on the former Midland in the latter part of the 1950s. The normal weekday service version on this very same route would simply add a Stanier Corridor Third and at higher traffic times such as the morning and evening rush or summer services a second Composite would be in the formation. You can do this sort of thing for a large portion of the whole BR network. Just by choosing carefully the engine and mix of coaches, you can very well describe a fairly specific place and time.
3:43 and obviously vaster compartments in 1sr class as obviously shown by th wider distance (and size) between windows as compared to the standard half of the coach. And btw, the standard UIC coach naming is much clearer: A is 1st class, B is 2nd (C in those countries where 3rd class still is a thing), plus D for a luggage compartment (or coach) and consequently AB for a "mixed* ie composite coach with a numeral index indicating the number of separate compartments: A9 being a 9 compartments 1st class coach, B10 a 10 compartments 2nd class one, A4B5 a 4 1st class plus 5 2nd class ones while an A3D will be a 3 1st class compartments plus luggage space composite . Easy.
Hi Charlie. Another informative and enjoyable video. I can remember the long rakes of crimson and blood and custard coaches being hauled by steam locomotives and the newer green diesels in the 60s. I can also remember the mixed rakes of the newer blue coaches and crimson coaches being hauled by large steam locomotives and the newish 25kv electric locos (also in the 60s) on the newly electrified WCML. Great stuff as always. Cheers Chris.
Hi Charlie - once again you've done a really good job of giving enough info to show the scope and encourage a bit of research, while staying restrained enough to avoid giving us brain overload! P.S. Another way to add interest to your coaching stock is to install interior details. This might be achieved by adding a few passengers, but could also brought about through a paintwork job to recreate the wooden or formica partitioning and seat upholstery colouring. Ah, railway modelling... just when you think you've cracked it some smartypants throws another challenge on to the table!
The interiors of coaching stock is always a dilemma David. Do we add lights, do we add people, do we add carpets, do we paint the seats, do we paint the tables! Where does it all end regards Charlie
Hi Charlie, Great video as usual and very informative. A slightly unrelated question to the topic but not the video. At about 22.31 minutes into the video, the class 50 stops at the top of the ramp, just after the helix. To my left there is a small corrugated line side hut. It's just what I'm looking for for a diorama I am constructing, ( no i'm not going to ask for it) just the details who its made by and product number etc, if you have them to hand. Thanks Charlie
Love your Videos, they teach me so much in all aspects of the Hobby. I am new to this Hobby and have absolutely nil knowledge about trains, the era's etc etc, other than some are the ''chuff chuff'' type and the others are ''Dee Der Dee Ders''.... 2nd Class Brake Coach ? Well as a First Class paying customer I would be outraged that the Vermin in 2nd Class get Brakes all to themselves Charlie.. :) I would want a refund. My main interest will be the creativity of it all, landscape etc. I am currently purchasing all my stuff in N Gauge Digital to start my layout next year around a whole room. All your Videos are an immense help to someone like me. Keep up the good work.
Wonderful video Charlie! One oddity was: All GWR/WR steam & diesel locos (Westerns/Warships & Hymeks) operated on 25 inches of vacuum, compared to all other companies/regions that used 21 inches. This meant that when a train changed it's locomotive to or from a WR loco., all the emergency brake release strings had to be pulled, before recreating the brake to the appropriate vacuum level. This would cause delays as the planners failed to understand this factor. So this could be an interesting prototypical thing to model. Thankfully once vacuum was ended & air brakes were standard this issue did kind of end. the new oddity being the SR EMU fleet.
A tricky topic well covered Charlie! I always try to make my rakes look feasible rather than historically accurate (didn’t want to say the ‘p’ word that rhymes with analytical 😜) so I go by the rough guide of setting second to first class accommodation in a ratio of about 4 or 5 to 1 and ensuring I have a guards compartment brake in the middle on smaller trains or at each end if it’s an express, plus a catering carriage if it’s inspired by a long haul service (running trains is hungry work! 😅). And well done for tackling the mind-baffling world of carriage stock abbreviations! Enough to make you dizzy 🥴 😂 Cheers mate, great to see so many varieties of stick in one programme 😎🍻👍🍀
Hi Charlie, another very insightful video, mind boggling abbreviations (for me anyway). Thanks for uploading the video, I really enjoy them. All The best, Ian.
Excellent as always, Charlie. My heart skipped a beat when Graham Bendell’s picture of Plymouth came up. I’ve been looking for old pictures of Plymouth’s and Devonport’s railways from when I grew up. Where did this one come from?
Total non-sequitur : Kadee metal couplers are the best. Plastic couplers are inferior and give me trouble. Greetings from Colorado. Home of the world's highest cog railway.
Great stuff Charlie, many thanks. I always love the Mk2s and for some reason the exterior ends of them always remind me of round-shouldered coke cans which I think appeared at somewhat the same time! Shame you stopped at the MK2 - the MK3s - especially the later ones - had some terrific innovations. Maybe you could cover those at some stage in the future - so long as you promise to include the MK3 in their best ever livery - the First Great Western "wavy lines" livery.
The train in the 1974 film, Murder on the 0rient Express consists of only 4 coaches. A baggage car, dining car, sleeping car and a Pullman coach, so you can get away with really short express trains if you're copying something from the TV or movies.
The original Orient Express was way shorter than the VSOE one. A more realistic early consist would be something like the LSModels two piece set in teak, with a total of 5 carriages
Carmine was so bright in the dull post-war years, but the colour division was up and down all the time with panelled coaches. At least, when BR maroon came in, and with the Southern Region's attractive green, one could have all the different periods of pre-grouping and grouped carriages with a uniform colour. It was rare to have a set train of similar carriages.
Hi Charlie many thanks for this informative and interesting video, I have modelled a NSE layout (1984 till 1992) so have made good use of Mk1's and Mk2's of course in NSE early and late livery and have also adopted your idea of eight coaches long, please take care..
Hi Charlie A great video as usual! Although one little thing I noticed was there was no mention of the differance between early Mk2's (or Mk2A's) and MK2b's. Which I think is, the early 'rounded end' Mk2's had a doorway almost centrally of the coach the same as the Mk1 design, whereas the subsequently later batches had doorways only at the ends of the vehicles, to make seating all the way through the coach without having the put a doorway section in the middle, possibly increasing the seating capacity at the time. This is only a very minor niggle and doesn't detract from your explaination but I mention it for completeness. Hope this helps
Interesting video. You are right there are bargains in second hand. I got bachmann MK1s at £20 for boxed ones and £15 for ones miss boxed from Tony's Trains of Rugby.
That was interesting and very informative and sooo needed, well at least by me, Charlie. Coaching stock is such a grey area for me, and all i have done in the past is bought Green ones. I should be ashamed, I will have a hard job working out my green ones Maunsell, Mk1 and all the types etc as I take them out of the boxes and sit them on a track. This lovely video has or will cause me to take a much closer look, and even think of blood and custard in the future. great job chum. best to you as always Paul at Sandling Junction
Great video as per ... I was a bit of an anorak and renumbered all my Bachmann Mark I maroon and blue&grey stock with appropriate Scottish Region numbers. All helps provide interest and variety. In researching this I found a very anorak sort of fact that there were no Scottish Region BGs in maroon, though I found a photo of a Royal Mail TPO coach at Inverness with an SC prefix!
Really helpful video. The variation in colour for ‘blood’ coaches really does show up - courtesy of manufacturers view of what colour paints to use, I suppose. I know the coaches were loans but I do like the odd passenger inside. My dmu’s have a handful and it does help especially when stopped at a station. I guess much depends on how easy it is to dismantle coaches to do this. Worth a mention next time around might be roof colour - gloss or eggshell or Matt. I won’t go into weathering - I haven’t done mine, but like buildings, one sees more of roofs on models than humans on a platform see of real coach roofs. By the way I quite agree with train length to match infrastructure of stations (and storage obviously).
Hi Charlie, Very Good video. A couple of comments perhaps to be covered with further videos. The proportion of 1st to 2nd class accomodation should be around 10 to 15% although there were exceptions some premium services having more 1st class generally it is difficult to justify a full 1st class coach in less than a 5 coach rake. Ex GWR coaches generally did not leave the region due to loading gauge problems. Restaurant vehicles needed as mentioned a kitchen and often ran in sets of two or three eg RFO RKB SO or RU SO The number of brake vehicles seems to have declined in time In the 50's and 60's any train of 4 or more would have had 2 brakes generally at each end. By the 70's and 80's this had declined to one often in the middle of the rake. If you don't have room for a full rake many branches had through coaches to London which were attached to expresses at the junction. In its simplest form this could be just a BCK or perhaps more commonly a BCK and SK or a BSK and CK. The famous ACE (Atlantic Coast Express) had parts to many destinations - Padstow Plymouth Ilfracombe Bude Torrington amongst others This means that many mainline trains had 3 or more brakes for an 8 car rake perhaps BSK SK SO RMB FK BSK + SK BCK - 6 different types in an 8 car rake Inter regional / excursion trains are also very interesting with stock from various companies/regions Bournemouth - York would be Southern and North Eastern and Manchester - Penzance Western and Midland. Sometimes mixed in one rake but often running as two single region rakes used alternately. Holiday Excursions and football specials on weekends were gloriously mixed often including suburban non corridor vehicles mixed with mainline coaches as the operating department struggled to find enough coaches for the train. I guess the next subject should be parcels/mail/newspaper trains where the golden rule seemed to be that no two vehicles were the same. I have a Siphon G, Mk1 BG, LMS50'BG, SR vanC, MK1 GUV, LNER CCT, Mk1 CCT, GWR Hawksworth BG combination Keep up the excellent work
What an excellent comment Jonathan. Yes it had occurred to me to put together a parcel train video. However I think that will have to wait until I’m further down the line, excuse the pun. Thanks again for the info regarding what accompanies the restaurant car, Regards Charlie
A minefield if ever there was! Southern modellers upto the late 60s have less variety available in terms of mixing coaches as they ran most of the time in fixed sets. Though this later could be a mixture of mk1, maunsell and bulleid in varying liveries. The southern also varnished rather than repainted coaches so colours could vary even with the same colour across the set.
Lovely video again, Charlie! I'll have to check out my coaches and see what (other) rakes I can build. Thank you very much for all the well presented information.
Hi Charlie Another entertaining story. Thanks. I loved the original Mk1s (with Korridors) Steam heating on a cold day. So comfortable and seem to have their own certain aroma. The upholstery I guess. Loved the compartments especially late and you could get one to yourself. I must admit I do really like the. Mk2 D.Es .Very smart looking. A shame loco hauled s
Really good, as usual. I look forward to the video showing actual make up of coach rakes. I’m modelling N Gauge and Mansfield in the early 60’s, so that gets me maroon suburban and other coaches, plus some other colours.
So good I watched it twice!
Dedication indeed.
You didn’t fall asleep first time did you? Regards Charlie
I live in Virginia, USA & have US trains; however, I find your presentation of British railroads fascinating & well done. Thank you.
I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it Phil, even from across the pond. Regards Charlie
I'm also in Virginia Smithfield VA USA to be exact
I have just restarted Model Railway, but now in N gauge as we have downsized. I want to say how much I enjoy watching your videos.
Thanks KST, that’s very kind of you. Regards Charlie
I do this constantly I watch videos and look at images of tourist trains and special trains running now and mix and match. Most railways now have to work with what they have to hand and whats in operational condition. Good and insightful video.
Great comment Matt. It’s great to have you on-board. Regards Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway thanks Charlie definitely ended up with a new subscriber mate
I saw a Southern 4-CEP in the BR Blue/grey livery that had been in some sort of accident. The original green paint was showing up underneath the dents.
The correct name for the blood and custard livery is 'crimson lake and cream'. A journalist made up the 'carmine and cream' name and the error has been widely spread.
What an interesting fact mate. Crimson lake and cream, I shall try and remember that one. Regards Charlie
Anothewr great video Charlie ... and it just so happened my daughter brought me some railway magazines today from some one she cleans for and there was a leaflet called "British Railways Titled Train Formations 1950 - 1965 " .. John
A great starting point. Surely it’s an omen. Regards Charlie
Charlie as a nonrailway modeller you have made clear to me what all the various coach classes are, thank you. very interesting.
I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it. Regards Charlie
Non-rotating tender wheels. Charlie, I think you've discovered a here-to-for unknown track cleaning method!
I always loved the old English corridor passenger cars. The staple of all black & white English mystery & drama films. Thanks for the tour.
I’m so pleased that you enjoyed the video Frank. Yes all British murder mysteries seem to take place on corridor train carriages. Regards Charlie
It's nice to watch your videos again this one in particular and it's always good to get passenger trains marshalled right I have the basic principle of 1st class at the London end of the train and the standard class at the other and the catering vehicle separating the first and the stand ard
You are spot on OS TMD. We might as well get it right. Regards Charlie
Very informative Charlie, as a young 70 YO boy in AUS, I have always been confused by British coach codes and colours. Very well explained. Of course K is for corridor !!😂😂
I’m so pleased that you found it interesting Robert, regards Charlie
Hi Charlie - I just want to say how much I enjoy your videos. I have been watching your channel for some time now and find myself dipping in and out of the videos very much like I used to do with my Railway Modeller magazines I subscribed to in the early 70's
(the Video Index is a great idea by the way)
So thank you for the sore head, the stiff back, aching knees and empty wallet!
But most of all thank you for getting me back into a hobby I enjoyed as a child
What a heartwarming comment Steve, you’re too kind mate. Regards Charlie
Nicely done, another excellent video presentation. Not only did I learn a great deal, watching those two Warships climbing the helix was particularly striking. A marvellous piece of infrastructure in its own right, but also an excellent way to show some of the coaching stock and locomotives to particular advantage. All the best, Nige
Thanks Knight, I’m so pleased you enjoyed it, particularly the Helix. Regards Charlie
Afternoon Charlie. Hope you and all your family are well 😀 Very interesting and well out together 👍🏻 My favourite year of train spotting was the 70s just getting to the end of colourful coaching stock especially on holiday specials at BTM on a Friday night Saturday morning stop over before heading south west lol 😆 I can remember the 08 marshalling stock on and off differently trains depending on their destination 🤣 Cheers Stevie 👍🏻
Thanks Stevie, great memories from perhaps simpler times. Regards Charlie
I’ve always wondered how it all panned out with livery and timing.
I was only a toddler when this all happened so couldn’t take notes.
Thank you for the brilliant video 😉
I’ve actually learnt something useful today 😂
Thanks Andrew, that’s very kind of you to say so mate. Regards Charlie
I grew up near Crewe and although I was never a trainspotter I did like trains and used to watch them go past the village all the time, I never used to like mixed carriages though, and as this was the 70s and 80s it was a common occurrence, unlike today I would say (not that I know - lived abroad for 20 years). But anyway, nice video with the usual creativity and fascination.
Thanks Chris, I’m so pleased that you found the video interesting even though you live abroad.
Regards Charlie
Thank you Charlie,
I asked and you delivered. Nice one Sir.
Very informative and together with the Freight Wagon video will be viewed again and again.
Thank you.
I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it Vernon. Regards Charlie
Quite a minefield Charlie, well done to you and your researchers for a well documented video. Makes very interesting watching.
Thanks Bryan,
I learned a great deal in the research and hopefully I’ll retain it too.
Regards Charlie.
Thanks for this video. This, and your video on freight wagons, is making me more thoughtful on what I put together as a train and in what order, and may well influence what I buy in future as well. You are doing us all a great service.
What a heartwarming comment Clive, you’re too kind. Regards Charlie
Another great video very grateful for the use of my local club layout for running full length trains this was most informative
I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it OR.
Regards Charlie
I enjoyed seeing the variety of coaches found on our railways and their different designs and liveries.
As regards the scale ratio, Charlie, it is generally referred to as 1:76 which is an approximation. There are 304.8mm to the foot and as the modelling scale is 4mm to 1ft, if you divide 304.8 by 4 you get 76.2, hence 1:76.2 is the precise ratio, as defined in the P4 Standards.
P4 scale is 4mm to 1 foot, but unlike OO scale, applies to everything including the wheel and track standards used by the prototype, from which the P4 Standards are derived. The tolerance allowed in the P4 Standard is generally a maximum of 0.1mm, hence the need to work to a precise scale ratio. Have a good weekend. Best, Jason.
I’m so pleased you enjoyed it Jason, and thanks for the info regarding Scale’s. Regards Charlie
Educational! I'd wondered about some of the livery schemes all mixed together.
That’s great W71, I’m so pleased that you found the video useful. Regards Charlie
Useful insights into a specialist area. Thank you for sharing your research.
I’m so pleased that you found it useful H7. Regards Charlie
Thanks for sharing. It's look like you have a MK1 and MK2 eastern region coachs but this does matter as BR mixed the region up anyway. In the 60s they mixed the colours up .you can find a number of photos with the difference rakes of coaching stock. I am making up the Bournemouth to York service which has green and maroon coaching stock. Look forward to your next video 👍😃
I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it buddy. Regards Charlie
Thank you, Charlie. Whilst I realise the point of your fabulous posts are to discuss model railway issues, which i much enjoy, I loved the slightly longer video of trains running this week.
Please keep going!
Best wishes,
Michael x
Thanks Michael, I do try to please everyone. Regards Charlie
Got it in one Charlie...cleared some of the fog from this addled brain...you have managed
to answer the questions that we lurkers didn't dare ask...thanks mate
Thanks Philip, I’m pleased that you found it interesting and perhaps there was something new for most folks.
Regards Charlie.
It is amazing if one looks at old photographs, how post war shortage of cash and branch lines carried a huge variety of stock ancient and modern... A really useful video Charlie for prototypical modelers and those who like ascetics as well! Cheers!
I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it mate. We all still have lots to learn. Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie great point about length of trains up to seven coaches, I think you are spot on. Seven coaches look just about right when depicting a long express train.
I think that if you go any longer some thing doesn't look quite right I think it's due to lack of prospective.
Same thing with long freight trains 10 to 20 wagons look just as good as 50 plus.
I couldn’t agree more, regards Charlie
Hi Charlie, another very interesting video, it gives us "food for thought" as we go about making up a rake of either Freight Wagons or Passenger Coaches. Thanks for posting. Cheers Greg
Thanks Greg, I’m so pleased that you find the channel interesting.
Regards Charlie
Always informative Charles, you never fail to add to our knowledge from your research, thank you.
Certainly looking forward to your trains running on Chadwick, cheers Paul.
Thanks Paul, it’s very kind of you to say so mate. Regards Charlie
I always look forward to your videos and owe you a huge debt for the concept of projects extending beyond life expectancy. As a result I have disposed of a Land Rover and a Morris 1000 Traveller!
That’s great stuff David. You can always waste some of the cash on model trains!
Hi Charlie,
Nice presentation on the variety of coaches so many of us remember. I feel sure this will be of interest and of help to those outside the UK interested in and possibly modelling the UK scene.
Overseas visitors might be interested to learn about the concept of Inter-Regional Trains, where the mix of coaching stock could be much more varied.......especially at holiday times......where what I might call the 'extremities' of the system, say Devon & Cornwall in the South-West, or Scotland in the North, would often see mixed coaching stock.
Added to this is the fact that certain regions, or centres, could often find themselves having to reach out for additional coaches on certain trains, again for the summer period, or even for special events such as Horse Race meetings The Grand National at Aintree Racecousrse near Liverpool, comes to mind here.
On such occasions the mix of coach could often be much more varied again, both in the colour of the coaches, but also in the mix of stock such as gangway / corridor stock or suburban.
Keep up the good work Charlie......
Your efforts are much appreciated and as informative and delightfully entertaining as ever...
James Hennighan
Yorkshire, England
P.S.
Whilst it is possible for people to access details about just what and where the basic regions were after 1948, it might be an idea to show a brief clip of this on your site when you are discussing 'the regions'......it would certainly aid understanding for overseas visitors to your site....
Perhaps a map...?
Just a suggestion.
What an excellent comment James with some useful pointers too.
Take care, regards Charlie
What you call crimson we call Tuscan red. In the US they didn’t use a large contrasting color. Our buffet car we call a dinner. We also have a RPO right behind the engine set. RPO is railroad post office. I don’t know how much of the mail is carried by rail any more. I have gotten most of my passenger cars on eBay, but have bought some but in sell.
Yet another great video. Charlie, you are always interesting.
Two great nations separated by a common language Ken. Regards Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway So true! Do want ride the trains in the UK. There’s something g about the feel of the car as you are moving along.
Very informative Chas , I couldn't remember all that information well done you
I’m so pleased that you found it interesting John.
Regards Charlie
Another good one, Charlie. I’ve been wondering about all those coach abbreviations for a while. There are no excuses anymore more for me mixing up air and vacuum brakes coaches just in case a rivet counter walks into my railway room.
Simple answer there David is never to let them in! Regards Charlie
Loved it as always Charlie, nice break from scratch building coal drops for Goathland
Thanks Alan, I’m so pleased that it made a nice change for you. Regards Charlie
Excellent presentation Charlie, thank you.
You’re most welcome Paddy, regards Charlie
Another brilliant video, spend most my time shunting coaching stock and still cant get my head around the letter system.
A point lots of people glance over is most of the mk1 stock was converted to dual air and vac braking and dual ETH and steam heat by BR, allowing them to be used along side the newer Mk2s, as the wouldn't be aloud to be though piped (unbraked) within a passenger train.
Some were even reverted back to vac only. Such is this minefield Ben.
Excellent video Charlie, thank-you. I can recall my delight on travelling from Newton Abbot (which appeared in one of the illustrative photos included) to Manchester and finding ‘for second class use’ notices stuck on first class corridor coaches. Back then, the mid 70s, I was always curious of the heating controls. Each bench seat had an independent ‘electrical heating’ control, there being a single for the ‘steam’ heating for the entire compartment. Thanks again.
The smell of the steam heating coming through the seats is something that can’t be forgotten. Regards Charlie
Charlie, yet another very interesting video.
It shows how helpful it is to get good photographs of the era, and region you are modelling, to see what was going on with wagons and coaches to reproduce an idea of what it was like.
Keep up the great content.
Cheers, and stay safe, Michael
Thanks Michael, I’m so pleased that you found the video interesting. The research is a fascinating aspect of video production and thoroughly enjoyable. Regards Charlie.
Hi Charlie, thanks for the video. And difficult subject simply explained. One aspect I note was missing perhaps was connecting trains of inter region stock, perhaps because of the BR theme. I am sure that they continued for quite some time after '48, and would have introduced their own variations based on pre standardised stocks. As a matter of interest a number of the LNER diners that you referenced last in use into the 80s when dual braked stock was finally withdrawn.
The compatibility issues between certain coach types Robert, was just too complex for this video.I do understand the use of adapters et cetera but I thought it would be a step too far. Regards Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway HI, it wasn't couplings I was thinking of, but actual coaching stock workings inter regionally, eg. York Bristol, or Newcastle Portsmouth. The 'portion trains' continued for quite some time after nationalisation.
Hi Charlie, spot on with this one! 👍 When I watch your videos I realise how much reading I need to do, but you give a great head start. And yes, thanks to the contributors
Thanks Edward, I did find this one particularly tough but we got there in the end. Take care mate, regards Charlie
Another fine presentation Charlie, Thank you.👍😁
One wee detail, which I don't often see mentioned, is the simple rule that any passenger train, branch or main line, steam/diesel/electric hauled, DMU or loco hauled, pre-grouping, big four, or more modern era, must include a brake van/guard's compartment in the consist.
While often the last vehicle, it can just as easily be at the front, or anywhere else in the rake but it must be there.
I'm sure 99% of viewers knew that anyway but I've seen expensive locos, hauling highly-detailed stock on exhibition-standard layouts, 𝒘𝒊𝒕𝒉𝒐𝒖𝒕 a van. Apart from ignoring procedure on the real railway, it just looks wrong.😁
I'm referring to UK practice, of course. I would imagine railways in other countries would follow very similar practices but I'm sure viewers from other countries will know the real story.
You have made an excellent point there. One that certainly worthy of a mention next time. Many thanks, regards Charlie
Very informative video Charlie. Coaching stock is such a minefield. I’m just considering that my railway is a heritage railway and then the mix doesn’t matter in the end. Thanks for sharing and doing the research. Roy.
I’m so pleased that you enjoyed the video Roy, the research is actually quite fun. Regards Charlie
Another enjoyable video this time on coaching stock. Hornby Magazine has in the past given examples of train formations for specific routes which people may find useful. Thank you again and look forward to your next video.
Thanks Simon, I have the Hornby formations booklet, but the details are only from around 1970. Still, the research is quite rewarding when you get into the nitty gritty.
Regards Charlie
Hattons also has some of these lists, they do make a reference
Hi Charlie great video as always. Train formations are always interesting. Its nice to mix up coaching stock my sets are a little too uniform really.
One issue I have found is I have been fitting the Hunt couplings to different designs of coaches from different manufacturers. This can make it more difficult to couple different designs together. All good fun of course
I’m so pleased that you found it interesting Matt. Coupling are the bane of our lives! Regards Charlie.
Great video Charlie. Thank you for this overview of coaching stock. In the early day's of British Railway's the Custard and Cream could vary quiet a bit as the paint shops mixed their own colours. There was no standard colour swatch to go by. Some of the cream shade could be paler or more yellow depending on where the coach was shopped. The GWR division used their own pre war cream shade. A double chimney King loco should have a loud "bark" to it's exhaust. The sound chips that are in these models sound like single chimney King's. Train spotting as a kid you knew when a double King was coming long before you saw him. Cheers, Chris Perry.
Yes, that bark! Unmistakeable, especially if the driver is faced with a bit of a gradient from the off!!
I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it Chris , and good info on the chimneys. Regards Charlie
I quite fancied one of those blue/grey Gresley buffet cars so just searched on E-Bay and found a couple. Great I thought, until I saw the price tag - both a few pennies short of A HUNDRED QUID ! Utter madness ! All of a sudden, I don’t fancy one anymore 😆
I noticed that too Bryan.
I bet they get snapped up quickly or a lot more come up when folks realise their worth. Regards Charlie.
Search for the ian kirk kit of one instead, it's easy to put together, no more advanced than a plastic wagon kit only longer.
Save a few bob on it and end up with a coach that looks just as good in the rake from viewing distance.
I was trying to find the coaches used for Victoria to Edenbridge Town around 1970. Slam doors which could be opened whilst seated! Great video!
That could be some interesting research and difficult to acquire Gavin.
Regards Charlie
hi great video as always , one point most passenger trains from 1948 run with 1st class London end. agree with your comment on pricing. the new Bachmann coaches at £75.00 are a joke on our EXTOR JC we run coaches mostly 2nd hand .
best wish bob + nigel pryor
Thanks Bob and Nigel, I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it. Yes the new pricing scheme my Bachmann is shocking. Regards Charlie
Interesting. Always wondered by so many varied coaches.
Thanks KMR. Regards Charlie
Couplings again! The connection between the class 50 and the GUV van is doing what tension locks often do when gradients change. A good reason for magnetic couplings which at least avoid this type of problem.
Hi Graham,
I’m still unsure of what train to loco coupling that I will eventually choose.
I do wish to uncouple with automation but magnets will not allow me to do so.
However, initially, let’s use magnets and keep it on the track.
Regards Charlie
Another great informative video Charlie. It is worth noting that in Cornwall trains were often "parked" at a station platform and then moved forward slightly to allow passengers in rear-ward coaches to disembark, in instances where the platform was not long enough to accommodate the whole train length in one go. I have an emotional attachment to the blue era. It may seem odd to your younger viewers but we did not own a family car until 1980. Holidays, usually on the Isle of Wight, always involved train travel. As regards motor rail terminals here in Cornwall, I cannot remember them all but St Austell and Bodmin Parkway were two. The main guts of the St Austell one still remain. Perhaps I should pop down the road and video it before it gets lost forever.
An interesting comment Roger. I now have a destination for my motor rail trains. Regards Charlie
Evening Charlie, a great video, standard rake of the same colour scheme are now days of the past. Your video has opened ones eyes to the possibilities of mixed colour schemes. Have so many B&C coaches but with different colour roofs and slight variation in red/crimson. The blue mk2 also now mixed in with variations of others. Love having the same colour coaches but now open to mixed and what looks more eye catching. Well it is only a model and time to play trains….lol. Thanks for a great and interesting video, thought provoking. All best Marc
Thanks Marc, I’m so pleased that you found the video interesting and that it may have an impact on your layout. Regards Charlie
Interesting video Charlie. I have always enjoying having varied colours of coaches on my layouts. Probably goes back to living near the West Coast line near Harrow as a child and seeing the maroon liveries change to blue/grey and mixed rakes.
I’m so pleased you found it interesting John. Regards Charlie
What an interesting video which has filled a gap in my knowledge. Your pieces are always of great detail and quality.I should be appreciative if you could do a sequel Inthe future.Terty😊
Thanks Terry, and I’ll look at a sequel in due course. Regards Charlie
Hey Charlie, This is one subject that I have struggled with and so this video is very much apprciated! Awesome Stuff! Thanks!
Thanks Auxie, you’re too kind mate.
Regards Charlie.
Good video Charlie on an interesting subject. Some ideas for part 2 : 1. suburban coaching stock - high density coaches for packing in commuters. 2. placing of coach types in rakes I.e. brakes at the ends of rakes, restaurant coaches between classes, restaurants with kitchen cars. 3. Placing of freight in rakes, you mentioned Syphons but also milk tankers and horse boxes which tended to be at the front of rakes to reduce the jerkiness of the ride to protect their loads. 4. Stock you can’t run i.e. air braked stock with vacuum only locos - unless you want to evoke rule 1 of course. BTW You mentioned the green painted Southern region coaches these were well distributed over other regions when the Southern region began to electrify in earnest so don’t feel you can’t run green if you don’t model the Southern. Thanks again and keep up the good work.
Hey very useful comments Simon, many thanks. I was aware of the loading of trains, but completely unaware of the restrictions with horses. Great info, regards Charlie
The southern were early adoptors of air braking in general so shuffled out vacuum brakes sooner than other regions.
EtH vs steam heat is another aspect. You can't heat a steam heat train with a 33 for example, as the southern again was ahead of the other regions and moved to eth early on, though because of the 3rd rail, their eth wasn't compatible with the later eth which was designed with the 25kv system in mind, a 73 for instance can't heat a train of eth stock designed for 25kv as it can't supply enough power. The 33s were consequently more powerful than the 26s or 26s as they could fit a bigger engine with the space saving from no boiler.
For a summer layout this doesn't pose too much problem, but if you run in winter if would. The southern for a short period ran double headed 33+24s in the early 60s until the new eth stock was ready. Early diesels with steam heat boilers often had problems with them, accounting for a lot of reliability problems faced.
Was a fascinating vision of British Passenger rail. Which is varied and fascinating in its own right. That was an excellent presentation, and one well aimed at the modeler and the modeler/historian (which many of us wind up being, wanted to or not).
Also, the joy of a Club layout is being able to run 'proper' trains--always a boon.
Seeing doubled power gave me a bit of hiccup, about the only time I've seen more than one loco was for Special "Excursion" trains. UP has one in the old Red livery with an A-B-A set of D Units that's largely a museum exhibit (I want to remember it's 10-12 custom Pullmans). UP has a set of "legacy" passenger equipment in the Gold livery that is pulled by a brace of E or F units in A-B fashion, and a Power car in a 6-8 consist. Amtrak never seems to run more than one loco, unless fitted with a Helper to get through mountains. Sadly, long gone are the Kitchen cars to serve proper Restaurant cars. Most of the Club cars (and their handy bartender) have gone to become razor blades as well.
Thanks Captain Mac, useful insight into your world. Regards Charlie
Cracking video Charlie, thanks for the info and tips. Certainly makes sense (ish!) when explained... doesn't it? :)
It certainly made sense to me Mike, most of the time!.
Regards Charlie
Keep the videos coming Charlie, really enjoying the channel and have binge watched so many of your videos over the last few evenings! I'm currently working on my layout again after a 5 year hiatus, and find these so helpful and relaxing to watch. The wiring and DCC stuff is particularly enlightening. My layout is sort of flexible and based on southern third rail region from 1990s onwards - plenty of variety in freight and departmental stock as well as the Mk1 based EMUs :)
I’m so pleased that you find the channel interesting mate, and good luck with your layout. Regards Charlie
This has been really useful Charlie! Thank you!
That’s great news.
I’m so pleased that you found it interesting.
Regards Charlie.
In a way, coaching stock is every bit as interesting as the locomotive pulling the train. This video is a nice simple introduction into how we can add a much greater depth to model railways without having to be expert exhibition standard scratch builders in order to set the scene. I do get that a good number of modellers out there are a bit OCD on everything having to be neat and match nicely, but that kind of spoils a model railway because the real thing was a mixed hotch potch! Carefully selecting the mix of coaches in a train can allow a layout to really tell its own story. For example a nice readily put together 3 coach train formed thus of models quite easily bought at reasonable cost second hand, lets analyse it...Bachmann 3F in BR Early Crest, Hornby Stanier corridor brake third in BR Maroon, Bachmann P1 panelled Corridor Composite in Crimson/Cream, Bachmann Porthole brake third in Crimson/Cream. The first thing that stands out with this service is the mix of liveries, both pre-1956 and post 1956, so its safe to say its after 1956, but the old panelled coach and higher emphasis on crimson and cream stock along with the early crest locomotive tells us its closer to 1956. This is also backed up by there being no Mk1 stock, which was still being built to replace these older vehicles. The next thing it tells us is that everything is of LMS origin, and that tender engine on a short corridor stock train tells us it is a longer distance service on a lesser used route. We can narrow that down a bit further too...the engine is an old Midland Railway design, so that puts us on a quiet backwoods route of the former Midland Railway portion of the LMS in the latter part of the 1950s. Why this particular engine and coaches? I have a photo of exactly this train standing at Redditch station in May of 1958 on a Birmingham New Street to Evesham service, albeit a Saturday extra so the train was shorter than normal to reflect the lower traffic and a normally freight engine was in use in place of the more usual 4P 2-6-4 tank...but still a quiet backwoods route on the former Midland in the latter part of the 1950s. The normal weekday service version on this very same route would simply add a Stanier Corridor Third and at higher traffic times such as the morning and evening rush or summer services a second Composite would be in the formation. You can do this sort of thing for a large portion of the whole BR network. Just by choosing carefully the engine and mix of coaches, you can very well describe a fairly specific place and time.
Such an excellent in-depth comment Simon. Many thanks. Charlie
3:43 and obviously vaster compartments in 1sr class as obviously shown by th wider distance (and size) between windows as compared to the standard half of the coach. And btw, the standard UIC coach naming is much clearer: A is 1st class, B is 2nd (C in those countries where 3rd class still is a thing), plus D for a luggage compartment (or coach) and consequently AB for a "mixed* ie composite coach with a numeral index indicating the number of separate compartments: A9 being a 9 compartments 1st class coach, B10 a 10 compartments 2nd class one, A4B5 a 4 1st class plus 5 2nd class ones while an A3D will be a 3 1st class compartments plus luggage space composite . Easy.
Great info Jean, much appreciated. Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie. Another informative and enjoyable video. I can remember the long rakes of crimson and blood and custard coaches being hauled by steam locomotives and the newer green diesels in the 60s. I can also remember the mixed rakes of the newer blue coaches and crimson coaches being hauled by large steam locomotives and the newish 25kv electric locos (also in the 60s) on the newly electrified WCML. Great stuff as always. Cheers Chris.
Great comment Chris, much appreciated, regards Charlie
Hi Charlie - once again you've done a really good job of giving enough info to show the scope and encourage a bit of research, while staying restrained enough to avoid giving us brain overload! P.S. Another way to add interest to your coaching stock is to install interior details. This might be achieved by adding a few passengers, but could also brought about through a paintwork job to recreate the wooden or formica partitioning and seat upholstery colouring. Ah, railway modelling... just when you think you've cracked it some smartypants throws another challenge on to the table!
The interiors of coaching stock is always a dilemma David.
Do we add lights, do we add people, do we add carpets, do we paint the seats, do we paint the tables! Where does it all end regards Charlie
Hi Charlie, Great video as usual and very informative. A slightly unrelated question to the topic but not the video. At about 22.31 minutes into the video, the class 50 stops at the top of the ramp, just after the helix. To my left there is a small corrugated line side hut. It's just what I'm looking for for a diorama I am constructing, ( no i'm not going to ask for it) just the details who its made by and product number etc, if you have them to hand.
Thanks Charlie
Please search for a Peco SS 22. Regards Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway Thanks, Regards Malcolm
Love your Videos, they teach me so much in all aspects of the Hobby. I am new to this Hobby and have absolutely nil knowledge about trains, the era's etc etc, other than some are the ''chuff chuff'' type and the others are ''Dee Der Dee Ders''.... 2nd Class Brake Coach ? Well as a First Class paying customer I would be outraged that the Vermin in 2nd Class get Brakes all to themselves Charlie.. :) I would want a refund. My main interest will be the creativity of it all, landscape etc. I am currently purchasing all my stuff in N Gauge Digital to start my layout next year around a whole room. All your Videos are an immense help to someone like me. Keep up the good work.
I’m so pleased that you enjoyed the video and it’s great to have you on board mate. Regards Charlie
Wonderful video Charlie! One oddity was: All GWR/WR steam & diesel locos (Westerns/Warships & Hymeks) operated on 25 inches of vacuum, compared to all other companies/regions that used 21 inches. This meant that when a train changed it's locomotive to or from a WR loco., all the emergency brake release strings had to be pulled, before recreating the brake to the appropriate vacuum level. This would cause delays as the planners failed to understand this factor. So this could be an interesting prototypical thing to model. Thankfully once vacuum was ended & air brakes were standard this issue did kind of end. the new oddity being the SR EMU fleet.
A crate comment BF, Much appreciated kind regards Charlie
Loved this video, really interesting Charlie and nice to see trains running.
Thanks Les, I’m so pleased you enjoyed it. Regards Charlie
Thank you Charlie a very informative video, much appreciated. Your helix looks amazing!
Thanks JSS, I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it. Regards Charlie
A tricky topic well covered Charlie! I always try to make my rakes look feasible rather than historically accurate (didn’t want to say the ‘p’ word that rhymes with analytical 😜) so I go by the rough guide of setting second to first class accommodation in a ratio of about 4 or 5 to 1 and ensuring I have a guards compartment brake in the middle on smaller trains or at each end if it’s an express, plus a catering carriage if it’s inspired by a long haul service (running trains is hungry work! 😅).
And well done for tackling the mind-baffling world of carriage stock abbreviations! Enough to make you dizzy 🥴 😂
Cheers mate, great to see so many varieties of stick in one programme 😎🍻👍🍀
Thanks Tim, for such a heartwarming comment. Regards Charlie
Nice bit of coaching on that one Charlie!
Really interesting and enjoyable. Thanks.
Thanks will, I’m so pleased you found it interesting mate. Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie, another very insightful video, mind boggling abbreviations (for me anyway). Thanks for uploading the video, I really enjoy them. All The best, Ian.
Thanks Ian, I’m so pleased that you found a video interesting mate. Regards Charlie
Excellent as always, Charlie. My heart skipped a beat when Graham Bendell’s picture of Plymouth came up. I’ve been looking for old pictures of Plymouth’s and Devonport’s railways from when I grew up. Where did this one come from?
It was taken by Graham, with a little Instamatic camera. Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie
Thanks for this video which again was very informative and useful. I am enjoying this series and learning a fair bit
That’s great news, after all, every day is a school day for us all. Regards Charlie
Another great video Charlie..I bet if you did a talk on paint drying it would still be extremely entertaining 😀
That’s very kind of you.
Graham. Regards Charlie
Absolutely brilliant tonight really did enjoy it thank you very much
Thank you Michael, I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it mate. Regards Charlie
Great video Charlie. Lots of food for thought.
Thanks John, I’m so pleased that you found it useful. Regards Charlie
Total non-sequitur : Kadee metal couplers are the best. Plastic couplers are inferior and give me trouble.
Greetings from Colorado. Home of the world's highest cog railway.
Thanks Dave, and I hope you enjoy the video too. Regards Charlie
Thanks again for your time spent creating these videos. Good on you!!
Thanks Rob, you’re too kind mate. Regards Charlie
Thanks for another great video. I always like a rake of blood and custard with a. couple of maroon mixed in.
I’m with you on that one Stephen. Regards Charlie
Great stuff Charlie, many thanks. I always love the Mk2s and for some reason the exterior ends of them always remind me of round-shouldered coke cans which I think appeared at somewhat the same time! Shame you stopped at the MK2 - the MK3s - especially the later ones - had some terrific innovations. Maybe you could cover those at some stage in the future - so long as you promise to include the MK3 in their best ever livery - the First Great Western "wavy lines" livery.
An interesting point Alan, but the later liveries are outside of my era I’m afraid. Regards Charlie
The train in the 1974 film, Murder on the 0rient Express consists of only 4 coaches. A baggage car, dining car, sleeping car and a Pullman coach, so you can get away with really short express trains if you're copying something from the TV or movies.
An interesting point, however the television might not be the ideal trend to follow! Regards Charlie
The original Orient Express was way shorter than the VSOE one. A more realistic early consist would be something like the LSModels two piece set in teak, with a total of 5 carriages
Carmine was so bright in the dull post-war years, but the colour division was up and down all the time with panelled coaches. At least, when BR maroon came in, and with the Southern Region's attractive green, one could have all the different periods of pre-grouping and grouped carriages with a uniform colour. It was rare to have a set train of similar carriages.
You’re dead right John, however uniform brakes are quite common model railway shows! Regards Charlie
Thanks for that Charlie i now understand better now about coaches.
And you have massive rakes Allan. Regards Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway 😁😁😁
Hi Charlie many thanks for this informative and interesting video, I have modelled a NSE layout (1984 till 1992) so have made good use of Mk1's and Mk2's of course in NSE early and late livery and have also adopted your idea of eight coaches long, please take care..
I’m so pleased that you found the video useful Barry, regards Charlie
Hi Charlie A great video as usual! Although one little thing I noticed was there was no mention of the differance between early Mk2's (or Mk2A's) and MK2b's. Which I think is, the early 'rounded end' Mk2's had a doorway almost centrally of the coach the same as the Mk1 design, whereas the subsequently later batches had doorways only at the ends of the vehicles, to make seating all the way through the coach without having the put a doorway section in the middle, possibly increasing the seating capacity at the time. This is only a very minor niggle and doesn't detract from your explaination but I mention it for completeness. Hope this helps
Thanks for the comment Peter, clearly the lapse in my research. Regards Charlie
Interesting video. You are right there are bargains in second hand. I got bachmann MK1s at £20 for boxed ones and £15 for ones miss boxed from Tony's Trains of Rugby.
Nice to see that someone else on the game Peter. Regards Charlie
Nice to see that someone else is on the game Peter. Regards Charlie
That was interesting and very informative and sooo needed, well at least by me, Charlie. Coaching stock is such a grey area for me, and all i have done in the past is bought Green ones. I should be ashamed, I will have a hard job working out my green ones Maunsell, Mk1 and all the types etc as I take them out of the boxes and sit them on a track. This lovely video has or will cause me to take a much closer look, and even think of blood and custard in the future. great job chum. best to you as always Paul at Sandling Junction
Thanks Paul, and I do hope that you’re keeping well.
Keep in touch mate, regards Charlie
I am wondering what the new station was named that you were talking about building a good while back. I remember suggesting that it be named Sherwood.
It might be Little Chadwick Paul.
Regards Charlie
enjoyed the background info and appreciate the link
Thanks John, I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it.
Great video as per ... I was a bit of an anorak and renumbered all my Bachmann Mark I maroon and blue&grey stock with appropriate Scottish Region numbers. All helps provide interest and variety. In researching this I found a very anorak sort of fact that there were no Scottish Region BGs in maroon, though I found a photo of a Royal Mail TPO coach at Inverness with an SC prefix!
Great work John, make the train on your own. Regards Charlie
Really helpful video. The variation in colour for ‘blood’ coaches really does show up - courtesy of manufacturers view of what colour paints to use, I suppose. I know the coaches were loans but I do like the odd passenger inside. My dmu’s have a handful and it does help especially when stopped at a station. I guess much depends on how easy it is to dismantle coaches to do this. Worth a mention next time around might be roof colour - gloss or eggshell or Matt. I won’t go into weathering - I haven’t done mine, but like buildings, one sees more of roofs on models than humans on a platform see of real coach roofs. By the way I quite agree with train length to match infrastructure of stations (and storage obviously).
Thanks GH, I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it. I will populate my coaches, once the final configuration has been sorted. Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie, Very Good video. A couple of comments perhaps to be covered with further videos.
The proportion of 1st to 2nd class accomodation should be around 10 to 15% although there were exceptions some premium services having more 1st class generally it is difficult to justify a full 1st class coach in less than a 5 coach rake.
Ex GWR coaches generally did not leave the region due to loading gauge problems.
Restaurant vehicles needed as mentioned a kitchen and often ran in sets of two or three eg RFO RKB SO or RU SO
The number of brake vehicles seems to have declined in time In the 50's and 60's any train of 4 or more would have had 2 brakes generally at each end. By the 70's and 80's this had declined to one often in the middle of the rake.
If you don't have room for a full rake many branches had through coaches to London which were attached to expresses at the junction. In its simplest form this could be just a BCK or perhaps more commonly a BCK and SK or a BSK and CK. The famous ACE (Atlantic Coast Express) had parts to many destinations - Padstow Plymouth Ilfracombe Bude Torrington amongst others
This means that many mainline trains had 3 or more brakes for an 8 car rake perhaps BSK SK SO RMB FK BSK + SK BCK - 6 different types in an 8 car rake
Inter regional / excursion trains are also very interesting with stock from various companies/regions Bournemouth - York would be Southern and North Eastern and Manchester - Penzance Western and Midland. Sometimes mixed in one rake but often running as two single region rakes used alternately.
Holiday Excursions and football specials on weekends were gloriously mixed often including suburban non corridor vehicles mixed with mainline coaches as the operating department struggled to find enough coaches for the train.
I guess the next subject should be parcels/mail/newspaper trains where the golden rule seemed to be that no two vehicles were the same.
I have a Siphon G, Mk1 BG, LMS50'BG, SR vanC, MK1 GUV, LNER CCT, Mk1 CCT, GWR Hawksworth BG combination
Keep up the excellent work
What an excellent comment Jonathan. Yes it had occurred to me to put together a parcel train video.
However I think that will have to wait until I’m further down the line, excuse the pun.
Thanks again for the info regarding what accompanies the restaurant car, Regards Charlie
A minefield if ever there was!
Southern modellers upto the late 60s have less variety available in terms of mixing coaches as they ran most of the time in fixed sets. Though this later could be a mixture of mk1, maunsell and bulleid in varying liveries. The southern also varnished rather than repainted coaches so colours could vary even with the same colour across the set.
You make an interesting points warship Kelly. Regards Charlie
Lovely video again, Charlie! I'll have to check out my coaches and see what (other) rakes I can build.
Thank you very much for all the well presented information.
Thanks TM, I’m so pleased that you found it interesting. Regards Charlie
You know, you could've done so many unboxings here 😁 interesting video 👍
Darn it, what a blunder!
Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie
Another entertaining story. Thanks.
I loved the original Mk1s (with Korridors)
Steam heating on a cold day. So comfortable and seem to have their own certain aroma.
The upholstery I guess.
Loved the compartments especially late and you could get one to yourself. I must admit I do really like the. Mk2 D.Es .Very smart looking.
A shame loco hauled s
Stock is disappearing.
Glad that you enjoyed it Howard. You're right about that musky smell, It's all coming back now! Regards Charlie
Really enjoyed the video Charlie, thank you
You’re most welcome Paul, regards Charlie
Really good, as usual. I look forward to the video showing actual make up of coach rakes. I’m modelling N Gauge and Mansfield in the early 60’s, so that gets me maroon suburban and other coaches, plus some other colours.
Thanks Andrew, I’m so pleased that you can relate to this video. Regards Charlie