Mixing Coaching Stock at Chadwick Model Railway | 160.
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- Mixing coaching stock can be a challenge. Hopefully this video will give some clarification at Chadwick Model Railway. 160.
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So good I watched it twice!
Dedication indeed.
You didn’t fall asleep first time did you? Regards Charlie
I live in Virginia, USA & have US trains; however, I find your presentation of British railroads fascinating & well done. Thank you.
I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it Phil, even from across the pond. Regards Charlie
I'm also in Virginia Smithfield VA USA to be exact
I saw a Southern 4-CEP in the BR Blue/grey livery that had been in some sort of accident. The original green paint was showing up underneath the dents.
The correct name for the blood and custard livery is 'crimson lake and cream'. A journalist made up the 'carmine and cream' name and the error has been widely spread.
What an interesting fact mate. Crimson lake and cream, I shall try and remember that one. Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie, Great video as usual and very informative. A slightly unrelated question to the topic but not the video. At about 22.31 minutes into the video, the class 50 stops at the top of the ramp, just after the helix. To my left there is a small corrugated line side hut. It's just what I'm looking for for a diorama I am constructing, ( no i'm not going to ask for it) just the details who its made by and product number etc, if you have them to hand.
Thanks Charlie
Please search for a Peco SS 22. Regards Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway Thanks, Regards Malcolm
Non-rotating tender wheels. Charlie, I think you've discovered a here-to-for unknown track cleaning method!
I always loved the old English corridor passenger cars. The staple of all black & white English mystery & drama films. Thanks for the tour.
I’m so pleased that you enjoyed the video Frank. Yes all British murder mysteries seem to take place on corridor train carriages. Regards Charlie
Cracking video Charlie, thanks for the info and tips. Certainly makes sense (ish!) when explained... doesn't it? :)
It certainly made sense to me Mike, most of the time!.
Regards Charlie
Problem with modelling 60s/70s/80s Motorail, the rakes are very long. During the heyday 6xMK1 FK, 1xMK2A BFK, and between 9 and 13 car flats. Sometimes an RU or RB in place of an FK. There was a service from Brockenhurst to Stirling which 'only' consisted of 2x MK1 Sleeper, 1x MK1 FK, 1xMK1 BFK, but still 7 flats.
Must be careful otherwise they look silly on a layout.
Bring the timescale to late 80s /early 90s and 2x GUVs with 7xMK2 aircons MK1 RBR and a MK1 BG does make for a shorter rake
Great info PC.
Much appreciated, regards Charlie
Hi Charlie, Very Good video. A couple of comments perhaps to be covered with further videos.
The proportion of 1st to 2nd class accomodation should be around 10 to 15% although there were exceptions some premium services having more 1st class generally it is difficult to justify a full 1st class coach in less than a 5 coach rake.
Ex GWR coaches generally did not leave the region due to loading gauge problems.
Restaurant vehicles needed as mentioned a kitchen and often ran in sets of two or three eg RFO RKB SO or RU SO
The number of brake vehicles seems to have declined in time In the 50's and 60's any train of 4 or more would have had 2 brakes generally at each end. By the 70's and 80's this had declined to one often in the middle of the rake.
If you don't have room for a full rake many branches had through coaches to London which were attached to expresses at the junction. In its simplest form this could be just a BCK or perhaps more commonly a BCK and SK or a BSK and CK. The famous ACE (Atlantic Coast Express) had parts to many destinations - Padstow Plymouth Ilfracombe Bude Torrington amongst others
This means that many mainline trains had 3 or more brakes for an 8 car rake perhaps BSK SK SO RMB FK BSK + SK BCK - 6 different types in an 8 car rake
Inter regional / excursion trains are also very interesting with stock from various companies/regions Bournemouth - York would be Southern and North Eastern and Manchester - Penzance Western and Midland. Sometimes mixed in one rake but often running as two single region rakes used alternately.
Holiday Excursions and football specials on weekends were gloriously mixed often including suburban non corridor vehicles mixed with mainline coaches as the operating department struggled to find enough coaches for the train.
I guess the next subject should be parcels/mail/newspaper trains where the golden rule seemed to be that no two vehicles were the same.
I have a Siphon G, Mk1 BG, LMS50'BG, SR vanC, MK1 GUV, LNER CCT, Mk1 CCT, GWR Hawksworth BG combination
Keep up the excellent work
What an excellent comment Jonathan. Yes it had occurred to me to put together a parcel train video.
However I think that will have to wait until I’m further down the line, excuse the pun.
Thanks again for the info regarding what accompanies the restaurant car, Regards Charlie
Great video Charlie, and very timely as I’m trying to put together a rake of crimson coaches to be pulled by my long awaited Accurascale Deltic. Maybe a stupid question, but does the coach numbering matter, eg, should all coaches in a rake carry the same regional lettering? One more question, any chance of you doing a video of adding lighting and passengers to coach stock?
Thanks for a great video. Will
Yes Will, the coach numbering does matter. They should carry the same region letter, with the odd exception. Regarding coaching lighting, the problem is that if you do one train you will have to do the lot. That can be a monstrous undertaking. Regards Charlie
Of course numbering doesn't matter because they are moving. The only time it matters is when it is static or when some pillock picks it up and says " This coach didn't run between A & B it ran between X & Y". Besides which it is your railway and you run it how you want to run it. It is your railway and you are the "Fat controller (politically incorrect) and what he dictates with his top hat and tails happens. You can even run Stephenson's Rocket in and among APTs with catenary overhead if you wish.
@@donsharpe5786 Don, you said “…it is your railway and you run it how you want to run it.” I totally agree and often say that in my posted comments. However, there are modelers who model in a prototypical way, (even Charlie does with his headcodes!) and to them it does matter and no they are not pillocks; they are modelers.
A model, by definition, is a copy or representation of an original usually in a smaller scale, so a representation of something that would not exist in the real world is not a model, by definition, if you want to be pedantic.
I get much enjoyment watching layouts in all scales that, like Chadwick, are well executed; even those that use high levels of ‘modelers licence’. There is a place in the hobby for everyone. Best, Jason (P4 pillock).
@@Rock_God I shouldn't have used the word but have been mindful of the comments when I put one too many rivets in place
Take it easy guys. Modellers we are, pillocks we are not. Just because you disagree with someone else, doesn’t make you right. It’s just a hobby not a way of life. Regards Charlie
I did wonder if you would include the Greasley's buffets, I can recall them in the early 1980's at Dawlish! (they always stood out as being a ex East Anglian) on GW lines. On a similar line I witnessed green DMU's out of St Pancras, with Blue units stored/next to them. There is a certain mine field, in the time period modelers try to represent. good luck on that Charlie (DMU's Next)??? or don't even go there???🤔🤔
I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it mate, but DMU I’m not too sure. Regards Charlie
3:43 and obviously vaster compartments in 1sr class as obviously shown by th wider distance (and size) between windows as compared to the standard half of the coach. And btw, the standard UIC coach naming is much clearer: A is 1st class, B is 2nd (C in those countries where 3rd class still is a thing), plus D for a luggage compartment (or coach) and consequently AB for a "mixed* ie composite coach with a numeral index indicating the number of separate compartments: A9 being a 9 compartments 1st class coach, B10 a 10 compartments 2nd class one, A4B5 a 4 1st class plus 5 2nd class ones while an A3D will be a 3 1st class compartments plus luggage space composite . Easy.
Great info Jean, much appreciated. Regards Charlie
Anothewr great video Charlie ... and it just so happened my daughter brought me some railway magazines today from some one she cleans for and there was a leaflet called "British Railways Titled Train Formations 1950 - 1965 " .. John
A great starting point. Surely it’s an omen. Regards Charlie
Love your Videos, they teach me so much in all aspects of the Hobby. I am new to this Hobby and have absolutely nil knowledge about trains, the era's etc etc, other than some are the ''chuff chuff'' type and the others are ''Dee Der Dee Ders''.... 2nd Class Brake Coach ? Well as a First Class paying customer I would be outraged that the Vermin in 2nd Class get Brakes all to themselves Charlie.. :) I would want a refund. My main interest will be the creativity of it all, landscape etc. I am currently purchasing all my stuff in N Gauge Digital to start my layout next year around a whole room. All your Videos are an immense help to someone like me. Keep up the good work.
I’m so pleased that you enjoyed the video and it’s great to have you on board mate. Regards Charlie
Afternoon Charlie. Hope you and all your family are well 😀 Very interesting and well out together 👍🏻 My favourite year of train spotting was the 70s just getting to the end of colourful coaching stock especially on holiday specials at BTM on a Friday night Saturday morning stop over before heading south west lol 😆 I can remember the 08 marshalling stock on and off differently trains depending on their destination 🤣 Cheers Stevie 👍🏻
Thanks Stevie, great memories from perhaps simpler times. Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie,
Nice presentation on the variety of coaches so many of us remember. I feel sure this will be of interest and of help to those outside the UK interested in and possibly modelling the UK scene.
Overseas visitors might be interested to learn about the concept of Inter-Regional Trains, where the mix of coaching stock could be much more varied.......especially at holiday times......where what I might call the 'extremities' of the system, say Devon & Cornwall in the South-West, or Scotland in the North, would often see mixed coaching stock.
Added to this is the fact that certain regions, or centres, could often find themselves having to reach out for additional coaches on certain trains, again for the summer period, or even for special events such as Horse Race meetings The Grand National at Aintree Racecousrse near Liverpool, comes to mind here.
On such occasions the mix of coach could often be much more varied again, both in the colour of the coaches, but also in the mix of stock such as gangway / corridor stock or suburban.
Keep up the good work Charlie......
Your efforts are much appreciated and as informative and delightfully entertaining as ever...
James Hennighan
Yorkshire, England
P.S.
Whilst it is possible for people to access details about just what and where the basic regions were after 1948, it might be an idea to show a brief clip of this on your site when you are discussing 'the regions'......it would certainly aid understanding for overseas visitors to your site....
Perhaps a map...?
Just a suggestion.
What an excellent comment James with some useful pointers too.
Take care, regards Charlie
Hi Charlie, I really enjoyed watching this one. It's great to see your layout running, especially good were the shots panning across the carriages with the high retaining wall as the back drop, I saw a similar wall, only briefly, on Paul and Rebecca Whitewicks channel, I think at East grinstead, I'll try and find the link.ua-cam.com/video/QVXcm3YgW7w/v-deo.html look at about 6:30
Also great to incorporate the photos with the models it makes the video very professional.
In my Dublo collection I have two sets of articulated teaks for my Sir Nigel to pull. Need to do a lot of cleaning to get it working properly though!!
Good luck from an unusually hot Spain (it's about 38° right now at 9pm), it's at least 15° hotter than normal
I’m so pleased that you enjoyed the video David. The panning shots were amongst my favourites too. Regards Charlie
Thanks for sharing. It's look like you have a MK1 and MK2 eastern region coachs but this does matter as BR mixed the region up anyway. In the 60s they mixed the colours up .you can find a number of photos with the difference rakes of coaching stock. I am making up the Bournemouth to York service which has green and maroon coaching stock. Look forward to your next video 👍😃
I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it buddy. Regards Charlie
The figurine on the viaduct wouldn't be allowed, and the woman below, next to the fence won't find him down there! Maybe he had too much to drink the night before, and wandered.
By Jove you were lucky, Did you notice the coupling between the class 50 and the Guv coach, how that stayed attached? I don't know. I had a runaway train down my 1 in 52 gradient and only half way down the scale speed was about 150 MPH. Luckily I managed to catch and slow it down before it got to the bottom. god knows what it would have ended up doing, I don't think it would have stayed on the rails. I have a clan line loco with 7 Pullmans which is the Orient express train, also a Golden Arrow with 6 Pullman coaches, those will be forever in their own trains.
Thanks Sam, I hope you found the video interesting yes the couplings are a bit of a lash up but please remember most it wasn’t my stock. Regards Charlie
In a way, coaching stock is every bit as interesting as the locomotive pulling the train. This video is a nice simple introduction into how we can add a much greater depth to model railways without having to be expert exhibition standard scratch builders in order to set the scene. I do get that a good number of modellers out there are a bit OCD on everything having to be neat and match nicely, but that kind of spoils a model railway because the real thing was a mixed hotch potch! Carefully selecting the mix of coaches in a train can allow a layout to really tell its own story. For example a nice readily put together 3 coach train formed thus of models quite easily bought at reasonable cost second hand, lets analyse it...Bachmann 3F in BR Early Crest, Hornby Stanier corridor brake third in BR Maroon, Bachmann P1 panelled Corridor Composite in Crimson/Cream, Bachmann Porthole brake third in Crimson/Cream. The first thing that stands out with this service is the mix of liveries, both pre-1956 and post 1956, so its safe to say its after 1956, but the old panelled coach and higher emphasis on crimson and cream stock along with the early crest locomotive tells us its closer to 1956. This is also backed up by there being no Mk1 stock, which was still being built to replace these older vehicles. The next thing it tells us is that everything is of LMS origin, and that tender engine on a short corridor stock train tells us it is a longer distance service on a lesser used route. We can narrow that down a bit further too...the engine is an old Midland Railway design, so that puts us on a quiet backwoods route of the former Midland Railway portion of the LMS in the latter part of the 1950s. Why this particular engine and coaches? I have a photo of exactly this train standing at Redditch station in May of 1958 on a Birmingham New Street to Evesham service, albeit a Saturday extra so the train was shorter than normal to reflect the lower traffic and a normally freight engine was in use in place of the more usual 4P 2-6-4 tank...but still a quiet backwoods route on the former Midland in the latter part of the 1950s. The normal weekday service version on this very same route would simply add a Stanier Corridor Third and at higher traffic times such as the morning and evening rush or summer services a second Composite would be in the formation. You can do this sort of thing for a large portion of the whole BR network. Just by choosing carefully the engine and mix of coaches, you can very well describe a fairly specific place and time.
Such an excellent in-depth comment Simon. Many thanks. Charlie
Total non-sequitur : Kadee metal couplers are the best. Plastic couplers are inferior and give me trouble.
Greetings from Colorado. Home of the world's highest cog railway.
Thanks Dave, and I hope you enjoy the video too. Regards Charlie
I’ve found this presentation enthralling, as always. I don’t know if this is a topic already covered Charlie, but would it (a) possible & (b) easy enough to convert the ‘traditional’ Hornby couplings from the 70’s/early 80’s models to the coupling systems that are currently on the market? Thanks.
Hi David, yet it is.
West Hill Wagon Works, make some older style fittings especially the screw type ones. Regards Charlie
Whilst a very good video. Alot of people chose to model prototypical formations. Thats alot of gangway adaptera needed with pullman gangways and uk standard gangways. I would doubt a a wide GWR centenary vehicle would mix with a Bulleid and Maunsell as the centenary atock was restricted to only a handful of GWR routea.
You are of course right but going into the compatibility between coach types and the use of adapters, was a step too far for this video. Regards Charlie
The colour scheme you refer to as blood and custard is actually Crimson and cream. I did notice you saying Crimson instead of Maroon. The first MK2 coaches were just know as MK2s till the MK2As came about and then the first MK2s became known as MK2Zs a MK2Z has the same kind of doors at the vestibule ends as all MK1s and not the concertina type. All Mk1s and MK2Zs were vacuum braked at first then a large number later became duel braked having a air system added at the same time as the Air conditiond MK2 came about as you rightly say the MK2 with Air conditioning are all air braked and don't have vacuum brakes.
A useful comment Matthew, I’d never heard of MK2z. Regards Charlie
I always look forward to your videos and owe you a huge debt for the concept of projects extending beyond life expectancy. As a result I have disposed of a Land Rover and a Morris 1000 Traveller!
That’s great stuff David. You can always waste some of the cash on model trains!
Another brilliant video, spend most my time shunting coaching stock and still cant get my head around the letter system.
A point lots of people glance over is most of the mk1 stock was converted to dual air and vac braking and dual ETH and steam heat by BR, allowing them to be used along side the newer Mk2s, as the wouldn't be aloud to be though piped (unbraked) within a passenger train.
Some were even reverted back to vac only. Such is this minefield Ben.
Hi Charlie great point about length of trains up to seven coaches, I think you are spot on. Seven coaches look just about right when depicting a long express train.
I think that if you go any longer some thing doesn't look quite right I think it's due to lack of prospective.
Same thing with long freight trains 10 to 20 wagons look just as good as 50 plus.
I couldn’t agree more, regards Charlie
Could you add some BR Mainline Stock to some Suburban Stock? I think I may have seen this a few times saw at London Bridge Station in the early seventies on trains going towards the Kent Coast? It possible split in The Midway Towns, with the blue suburban coaches terminating, and the six main line coaches in the white and blue livery carrying on to the coast. I think some of the blue suburban stock also consisted of four or Six Coach Units, including some with first class compartments, with toilets. Would you make up a rake of coaches like this at Chadwick, with half the train terminating at one station, and the rest of the train going to the next station?
You make it interesting point Alan but I am going to shy away from suburban stock. Regards Charlie
I grew up near Crewe and although I was never a trainspotter I did like trains and used to watch them go past the village all the time, I never used to like mixed carriages though, and as this was the 70s and 80s it was a common occurrence, unlike today I would say (not that I know - lived abroad for 20 years). But anyway, nice video with the usual creativity and fascination.
Thanks Chris, I’m so pleased that you found the video interesting even though you live abroad.
Regards Charlie
Gun powder wagons??? Like the differences between European and American railroad equipment. The logic in the classifications is perfectly logical. Amazing the level of detail. We have our problems but so different. Here each railroad painted their passenger cars in their own livery. Some quite colorful. Of course who has not seen the stainless steel silver streak! It is a shame that passenger service is not as widely use in the states but it is about the amount of time spent in travel.
Great info Ken. Regards Charlie
A minefield if ever there was!
Southern modellers upto the late 60s have less variety available in terms of mixing coaches as they ran most of the time in fixed sets. Though this later could be a mixture of mk1, maunsell and bulleid in varying liveries. The southern also varnished rather than repainted coaches so colours could vary even with the same colour across the set.
You make an interesting points warship Kelly. Regards Charlie
Educational! I'd wondered about some of the livery schemes all mixed together.
That’s great W71, I’m so pleased that you found the video useful. Regards Charlie
great video charlie, When loading coahes onto layout a rake corridor does the corridor alternate left to right and right to left as you move along,or is my memory playing up.Reference buffet cars i have a maroon ex lner mk2 from hornby
Hi Peter, no the sides of the corridor is always completely mixed up on rakes as they are broken up for repairs et cetera. Regards Charlie
hi great video as always , one point most passenger trains from 1948 run with 1st class London end. agree with your comment on pricing. the new Bachmann coaches at £75.00 are a joke on our EXTOR JC we run coaches mostly 2nd hand .
best wish bob + nigel pryor
Thanks Bob and Nigel, I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it. Yes the new pricing scheme my Bachmann is shocking. Regards Charlie
Very informative Chas , I couldn't remember all that information well done you
I’m so pleased that you found it interesting John.
Regards Charlie
Another great video Charlie..I bet if you did a talk on paint drying it would still be extremely entertaining 😀
That’s very kind of you.
Graham. Regards Charlie
I am wondering what the new station was named that you were talking about building a good while back. I remember suggesting that it be named Sherwood.
It might be Little Chadwick Paul.
Regards Charlie
Darrenbury Central Hi v good show. Always find your videos interesting.
Thanks Darren, I’m so pleased that you enjoy following my railway journey.
You are lucky for having only to deal with braking systems when arranging a consist...
For continental style the following rules would also apply :
No mixing of 'sausage' and 'classic' corridor connectors.
No 'steam heat only' vehicles in a train unless you run in summer or you have a steam heating wagon present.
Most freight locomotives do not have steam heating unless you run heritage trains or have regular cattle traffic.
Electric heated carriages can be used behind locomotives without steam heating when a generator car is present.
For the early years: an express consist always starts and ends with a vehicle without paying passengers. This means: post vans, luggage vans and express goods vehicles.
Control cabs should match the capabilities of the locomotive if they are leading the train.
If you run a goods train, the guards van is the first vehicle behind the locomotive. Cattle wagons and anything else which requires heating is also as close to the locomotive as possible.
Very IVZ. Much appreciated, regards Charlie
You know, you could've done so many unboxings here 😁 interesting video 👍
Darn it, what a blunder!
Regards Charlie
It's nice to watch your videos again this one in particular and it's always good to get passenger trains marshalled right I have the basic principle of 1st class at the London end of the train and the standard class at the other and the catering vehicle separating the first and the stand ard
You are spot on OS TMD. We might as well get it right. Regards Charlie
08:50 I realise it may be completely out of your hands, and it may just be me, but the exhaust sounds don't appear to synchronise with the speed of the loco.
Reference this video: ua-cam.com/video/vMvBDVz2jt8/v-deo.html @ 13:25 for the same loco, doing the same sort of speed, but IRL . . .
I also realise that I may just be a leeeeeetle too pedantic on this 'un 🤓
Sorry but when I last checked the sync was good. However, I shall certainly check it out.
You should do a video about synchronizing/synchronising steam loco sound.
My sound fitted steamers, have ESU lock sound version five fitted. It’s easily adjusted on those. Regards Charlie
Useful insights into a specialist area. Thank you for sharing your research.
I’m so pleased that you found it useful H7. Regards Charlie
You had some bachmann EWS hopper wagons wtf why didn’t you do a video on that Charlie ffs
Come on OB22, children read these comments.
The wagons were day visitor brought by a friend.
Regards Charlie
Top video charlie 👍💯👍 really informative thanks 👍👍👍
Thanks Dylan, I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it mate. Regards Charlie
Very nice video you done like and share thanks DD.
I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it MMR.
Regards Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway Thanks charlie always great support.
enjoyed the background info and appreciate the link
Thanks John, I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it.
Hi Charlie great video as always. Train formations are always interesting. Its nice to mix up coaching stock my sets are a little too uniform really.
One issue I have found is I have been fitting the Hunt couplings to different designs of coaches from different manufacturers. This can make it more difficult to couple different designs together. All good fun of course
I’m so pleased that you found it interesting Matt. Coupling are the bane of our lives! Regards Charlie.
Excellent presentation Charlie, thank you.
You’re most welcome Paddy, regards Charlie
Charlie Thanks for another useful and entertaining video. I hate to appear pernickety but British Railways originally had 1st and 3rd class. I've done a bit of research on the web and it appears the Mark 1 carriages were first built in 1951 whilst British Railways did not rename 3rd class to 2nd until 3rd June 1956. (I thought it was later than this as I remember the announcement being made but that just shows how old I am.) Hopefully, this is useful for anyone modelling prior to 1956. Roger
An interesting comment Roger, and you’re not the 1st to put me right on this one either. Having no second class was certainly new to me. Regards Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway Charlie. Just be glad you're too young to remember third class. While I was looking at the Wikipedia page on Mark 1s (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Railways_Mark_1) I found the following "The original vehicles had timber veneer interior finishes, and on the main line vehicles small plastic labels were fixed to the panels, giving the type of wood and its country of origin". I remember seeing such a plastic label when catching a train home from the seaside (probably) Teignmouth with my mum and dad and remarking on it. The country mentioned was Australia. I must have commented on it as I remember a chap in the compartment stating that it meant the carriage had been there. I didn't believe him then - I must have been 7-10 - so it was great to read the true explanation. Another thing to thank you for. Roger
Why don’t you take advantage of the close coupling mechanisms provided with modern rolling stock.
Seems such a shame. Those ugly Hornby couplings just not realistic.
6 foot gap between coaches difficult for passengers.
I’ve converted my coaching stock with Roco couplers which gives greater realism.
Otherwise interesting video. Thanks.
I certainly have taken advantage of more modern couplings. However, most of the stock in this video wasn’t mine, I did mention this. Regards Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway Thanks Charlie for your reply.
Didn’t know the whole story. I was always taken by European close coupling.
If you can access No.75 issue of January 2005 Model Rail Q&A you can see my early efforts and win.
Simon Kohler kindly sent me updated bogies.
When Hornby and Bachman introduced close coupling mechanisms I took full advantage of it. Have photos of later efforts.
I have some vintage Röwa coaches using the system.
I will subscribe to your channel.
Best regards.
Bryan
I’m in Victoria,British Columbia,Canada
I enjoyed seeing the variety of coaches found on our railways and their different designs and liveries.
As regards the scale ratio, Charlie, it is generally referred to as 1:76 which is an approximation. There are 304.8mm to the foot and as the modelling scale is 4mm to 1ft, if you divide 304.8 by 4 you get 76.2, hence 1:76.2 is the precise ratio, as defined in the P4 Standards.
P4 scale is 4mm to 1 foot, but unlike OO scale, applies to everything including the wheel and track standards used by the prototype, from which the P4 Standards are derived. The tolerance allowed in the P4 Standard is generally a maximum of 0.1mm, hence the need to work to a precise scale ratio. Have a good weekend. Best, Jason.
I’m so pleased you enjoyed it Jason, and thanks for the info regarding Scale’s. Regards Charlie
With RTR stock its always a bit of a paint by numbers affair compared to the vibrant show of coaching stock and variants of types there of that real trains had.
Thankfully there are relatively painless ways of getting around most of this come the time of BR diesel transition with the aide of the likes of southern pride and comet models sides that you can fit onto the guts of a RTR coach easy enough.
For personal weird formation preference I'm still hung up on that classic look of a mid to late 80s steam special with a resplendent king/castle or duchess up the front and a motley crew of blue and grey/intercity and whatever else livery MK1s. Maybe chuck some odd maroon support coach in there as well. A glorious mess of liveries and loco covering the last 50 odd years of the railways in one train
An interesting comment JJ. Yes I agree, messing up our liveries is certainly an asset. Regards Charlie
nice video but need to sort the wheels on the loco tender as not turning just being dragged along
The thing is Tony, they spin freely! Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie, thanks for the video. And difficult subject simply explained. One aspect I note was missing perhaps was connecting trains of inter region stock, perhaps because of the BR theme. I am sure that they continued for quite some time after '48, and would have introduced their own variations based on pre standardised stocks. As a matter of interest a number of the LNER diners that you referenced last in use into the 80s when dual braked stock was finally withdrawn.
The compatibility issues between certain coach types Robert, was just too complex for this video.I do understand the use of adapters et cetera but I thought it would be a step too far. Regards Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway HI, it wasn't couplings I was thinking of, but actual coaching stock workings inter regionally, eg. York Bristol, or Newcastle Portsmouth. The 'portion trains' continued for quite some time after nationalisation.
Interesting. Always wondered by so many varied coaches.
Thanks KMR. Regards Charlie
Interesting video. You are right there are bargains in second hand. I got bachmann MK1s at £20 for boxed ones and £15 for ones miss boxed from Tony's Trains of Rugby.
Nice to see that someone else on the game Peter. Regards Charlie
Nice to see that someone else is on the game Peter. Regards Charlie
Quite a minefield Charlie, well done to you and your researchers for a well documented video. Makes very interesting watching.
Thanks Bryan,
I learned a great deal in the research and hopefully I’ll retain it too.
Regards Charlie.
8:03 why are the back wheels of the tender not moving at all??
Because of the poor manufacturing standards. However, it’s now sorted. Regards, Charlie
What you call crimson we call Tuscan red. In the US they didn’t use a large contrasting color. Our buffet car we call a dinner. We also have a RPO right behind the engine set. RPO is railroad post office. I don’t know how much of the mail is carried by rail any more. I have gotten most of my passenger cars on eBay, but have bought some but in sell.
Yet another great video. Charlie, you are always interesting.
Two great nations separated by a common language Ken. Regards Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway So true! Do want ride the trains in the UK. There’s something g about the feel of the car as you are moving along.
Loved it as always Charlie, nice break from scratch building coal drops for Goathland
Thanks Alan, I’m so pleased that it made a nice change for you. Regards Charlie
The train in the 1974 film, Murder on the 0rient Express consists of only 4 coaches. A baggage car, dining car, sleeping car and a Pullman coach, so you can get away with really short express trains if you're copying something from the TV or movies.
An interesting point, however the television might not be the ideal trend to follow! Regards Charlie
The original Orient Express was way shorter than the VSOE one. A more realistic early consist would be something like the LSModels two piece set in teak, with a total of 5 carriages
This has been really useful Charlie! Thank you!
That’s great news.
I’m so pleased that you found it interesting.
Regards Charlie.
I quite fancied one of those blue/grey Gresley buffet cars so just searched on E-Bay and found a couple. Great I thought, until I saw the price tag - both a few pennies short of A HUNDRED QUID ! Utter madness ! All of a sudden, I don’t fancy one anymore 😆
I noticed that too Bryan.
I bet they get snapped up quickly or a lot more come up when folks realise their worth. Regards Charlie.
Search for the ian kirk kit of one instead, it's easy to put together, no more advanced than a plastic wagon kit only longer.
Save a few bob on it and end up with a coach that looks just as good in the rake from viewing distance.
Really enjoyed the video Charlie, thank you
You’re most welcome Paul, regards Charlie
Charlie, yet another very interesting video.
It shows how helpful it is to get good photographs of the era, and region you are modelling, to see what was going on with wagons and coaches to reproduce an idea of what it was like.
Keep up the great content.
Cheers, and stay safe, Michael
Thanks Michael, I’m so pleased that you found the video interesting. The research is a fascinating aspect of video production and thoroughly enjoyable. Regards Charlie.
Great video Charlie. Lots of food for thought.
Thanks John, I’m so pleased that you found it useful. Regards Charlie
Nicely done, another excellent video presentation. Not only did I learn a great deal, watching those two Warships climbing the helix was particularly striking. A marvellous piece of infrastructure in its own right, but also an excellent way to show some of the coaching stock and locomotives to particular advantage. All the best, Nige
Thanks Knight, I’m so pleased you enjoyed it, particularly the Helix. Regards Charlie
Very informative video Charlie. Coaching stock is such a minefield. I’m just considering that my railway is a heritage railway and then the mix doesn’t matter in the end. Thanks for sharing and doing the research. Roy.
I’m so pleased that you enjoyed the video Roy, the research is actually quite fun. Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie another great video as always but I was wondering about Pullman coaches and how they fit in with the rest of the rolling stock?
I believe that Pullman trains were very exclusive and normally stayed together. Regards Charlie
Thanks for this very informative video as usual Charlie. May be a silly question but were they configured with all of the corridors on the same side? Thanks.
Thanks RB, no the corridors were often on different sides. Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie, I was always under the impression the passenger trains had brakes at both ends. Can you confirm either way so that I can remove (or keep) the excess coaches. Good series.
No Bernard, every train needs one somewhere regardless of position.
Regards Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway Thank you. I will have to remove my excess carriages.
A modern, continuous braked train doesn't require any brake vehicle to operate safely. As the name suggests, the entire rake would have a continuous brake running it's entire length. A main purpose of a brake vehicle was to provide accommodation for the guard, and storage for parcels etc.
Good video Charlie on an interesting subject. Some ideas for part 2 : 1. suburban coaching stock - high density coaches for packing in commuters. 2. placing of coach types in rakes I.e. brakes at the ends of rakes, restaurant coaches between classes, restaurants with kitchen cars. 3. Placing of freight in rakes, you mentioned Syphons but also milk tankers and horse boxes which tended to be at the front of rakes to reduce the jerkiness of the ride to protect their loads. 4. Stock you can’t run i.e. air braked stock with vacuum only locos - unless you want to evoke rule 1 of course. BTW You mentioned the green painted Southern region coaches these were well distributed over other regions when the Southern region began to electrify in earnest so don’t feel you can’t run green if you don’t model the Southern. Thanks again and keep up the good work.
Hey very useful comments Simon, many thanks. I was aware of the loading of trains, but completely unaware of the restrictions with horses. Great info, regards Charlie
The southern were early adoptors of air braking in general so shuffled out vacuum brakes sooner than other regions.
EtH vs steam heat is another aspect. You can't heat a steam heat train with a 33 for example, as the southern again was ahead of the other regions and moved to eth early on, though because of the 3rd rail, their eth wasn't compatible with the later eth which was designed with the 25kv system in mind, a 73 for instance can't heat a train of eth stock designed for 25kv as it can't supply enough power. The 33s were consequently more powerful than the 26s or 26s as they could fit a bigger engine with the space saving from no boiler.
For a summer layout this doesn't pose too much problem, but if you run in winter if would. The southern for a short period ran double headed 33+24s in the early 60s until the new eth stock was ready. Early diesels with steam heat boilers often had problems with them, accounting for a lot of reliability problems faced.
The mk1 RFO never ran by itself in a train. It always had an RU, RB, RBK or RK. Bachmann produce the RU, Hornby the RB. The others aren't available... Hope that helps... Enjoying the videos
Yes David, and I am I’m on the hunt for one. Regards Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway hopefully other catering vehicles will appear in due course. Thanks for the reply. The videos are great.
Heard a whisper that an RKB or RK was on the cards
I do hope so David.
Such a brilliant and informative video, Charlie, many thanks. Thanks too for the coach category code download.
Would I be allowed to ask a question? I have just purchased a second hand Hornby Swallow Livery HST 125 Class 43 with a single Hornby Mk3 coach. I've since purchased another pair of matching Hornby Mk3 coaches and now a Lima Restaurant/Buffet car. My question is, as my Hornby coaches have plain cream coloured tops to the sides, but the Lima Mk3 Restaurant/Buffet car has a split cream & red stripe along the tops off the sides, is there a chart or some other documentation available anywhere that can provide the meanings to the different coloured stripes? I have seen these stripes on other coaches too, so it's not just for the Mk3 InterCity coaches. Am I right to assume that these are different colour codes for 1st Class, 2nd Class, Restaurant/Buffet, Sleepers, etc? Thanks in advance.
ps - I am planning on "going to town" a little on this set. Already has DCC conversion fitted to both power and dummy cars, with Hornby TTS sound decoders fitted to both ends, Black Cat Technology directional LED lighting boards, directional cab LED lights fitted, CD motor conversion to power car and in the process of adding another one to the dummy car too.Then next thing will be lighting inside the coaches.
Wow Robert, you are certainly taking this bull by the horns. My knowledge of HST later liveries is not good. However, there are hundreds of photos on Flickr that might be of some use. Regards Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway Thanks Charlie. I'll go see if I can take a look. That said, I am sure that I have seen variations of these stripes on many other coaches too, somewhere on various videos & photos.
I do know that the top yellow strip denotes first class and the red stripe buffet cars.
Regards Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway Thanks Charlie. That's a big help. Cheers... 👍
Keep the videos coming Charlie, really enjoying the channel and have binge watched so many of your videos over the last few evenings! I'm currently working on my layout again after a 5 year hiatus, and find these so helpful and relaxing to watch. The wiring and DCC stuff is particularly enlightening. My layout is sort of flexible and based on southern third rail region from 1990s onwards - plenty of variety in freight and departmental stock as well as the Mk1 based EMUs :)
I’m so pleased that you find the channel interesting mate, and good luck with your layout. Regards Charlie
Very interesting 👌 What about the Slip coaches some companies used?
Theoretically even easier to do in DCC than the previous methods of adding mass to one axle to ensure the coach rolls to about the right spot.
You could now put a black beetle type motor bogie in the coach and match it's speed to the train then have the slip coach powered to enable it to be controlled to a stop where you wish. The uncoupling could also be DCC controlled. Quite the idea for the manufacturers to jump on 🤣
Great comments gentlemen, however, slip coaches were abandoned well before my modelling era. Regards Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway Sorry Charlie. The video I watched did look a bit early.
Another enjoyable video this time on coaching stock. Hornby Magazine has in the past given examples of train formations for specific routes which people may find useful. Thank you again and look forward to your next video.
Thanks Simon, I have the Hornby formations booklet, but the details are only from around 1970. Still, the research is quite rewarding when you get into the nitty gritty.
Regards Charlie
Hattons also has some of these lists, they do make a reference
Very informative Charlie, as a young 70 YO boy in AUS, I have always been confused by British coach codes and colours. Very well explained. Of course K is for corridor !!😂😂
I’m so pleased that you found it interesting Robert, regards Charlie
Excellent as always, Charlie. My heart skipped a beat when Graham Bendell’s picture of Plymouth came up. I’ve been looking for old pictures of Plymouth’s and Devonport’s railways from when I grew up. Where did this one come from?
It was taken by Graham, with a little Instamatic camera. Regards Charlie
Evening Charlie, a great video, standard rake of the same colour scheme are now days of the past. Your video has opened ones eyes to the possibilities of mixed colour schemes. Have so many B&C coaches but with different colour roofs and slight variation in red/crimson. The blue mk2 also now mixed in with variations of others. Love having the same colour coaches but now open to mixed and what looks more eye catching. Well it is only a model and time to play trains….lol. Thanks for a great and interesting video, thought provoking. All best Marc
Thanks Marc, I’m so pleased that you found the video interesting and that it may have an impact on your layout. Regards Charlie
Thank you Charlie,
I asked and you delivered. Nice one Sir.
Very informative and together with the Freight Wagon video will be viewed again and again.
Thank you.
I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it Vernon. Regards Charlie
Very informative video, but what about BR Blue for suburban stock? Regardless of that it covered the subject extremely well. Thank you.
Hi Dave, I did consider suburban stock but the video will just be too long. Perhaps at a later date, regards Charlie
A tricky topic well covered Charlie! I always try to make my rakes look feasible rather than historically accurate (didn’t want to say the ‘p’ word that rhymes with analytical 😜) so I go by the rough guide of setting second to first class accommodation in a ratio of about 4 or 5 to 1 and ensuring I have a guards compartment brake in the middle on smaller trains or at each end if it’s an express, plus a catering carriage if it’s inspired by a long haul service (running trains is hungry work! 😅).
And well done for tackling the mind-baffling world of carriage stock abbreviations! Enough to make you dizzy 🥴 😂
Cheers mate, great to see so many varieties of stick in one programme 😎🍻👍🍀
Thanks Tim, for such a heartwarming comment. Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie A great video as usual! Although one little thing I noticed was there was no mention of the differance between early Mk2's (or Mk2A's) and MK2b's. Which I think is, the early 'rounded end' Mk2's had a doorway almost centrally of the coach the same as the Mk1 design, whereas the subsequently later batches had doorways only at the ends of the vehicles, to make seating all the way through the coach without having the put a doorway section in the middle, possibly increasing the seating capacity at the time. This is only a very minor niggle and doesn't detract from your explaination but I mention it for completeness. Hope this helps
Thanks for the comment Peter, clearly the lapse in my research. Regards Charlie
Another fine presentation Charlie, Thank you.👍😁
One wee detail, which I don't often see mentioned, is the simple rule that any passenger train, branch or main line, steam/diesel/electric hauled, DMU or loco hauled, pre-grouping, big four, or more modern era, must include a brake van/guard's compartment in the consist.
While often the last vehicle, it can just as easily be at the front, or anywhere else in the rake but it must be there.
I'm sure 99% of viewers knew that anyway but I've seen expensive locos, hauling highly-detailed stock on exhibition-standard layouts, 𝒘𝒊𝒕𝒉𝒐𝒖𝒕 a van. Apart from ignoring procedure on the real railway, it just looks wrong.😁
I'm referring to UK practice, of course. I would imagine railways in other countries would follow very similar practices but I'm sure viewers from other countries will know the real story.
You have made an excellent point there. One that certainly worthy of a mention next time. Many thanks, regards Charlie
Excellent video Charlie, thank-you. I can recall my delight on travelling from Newton Abbot (which appeared in one of the illustrative photos included) to Manchester and finding ‘for second class use’ notices stuck on first class corridor coaches. Back then, the mid 70s, I was always curious of the heating controls. Each bench seat had an independent ‘electrical heating’ control, there being a single for the ‘steam’ heating for the entire compartment. Thanks again.
The smell of the steam heating coming through the seats is something that can’t be forgotten. Regards Charlie
Great stuff Charlie, many thanks. I always love the Mk2s and for some reason the exterior ends of them always remind me of round-shouldered coke cans which I think appeared at somewhat the same time! Shame you stopped at the MK2 - the MK3s - especially the later ones - had some terrific innovations. Maybe you could cover those at some stage in the future - so long as you promise to include the MK3 in their best ever livery - the First Great Western "wavy lines" livery.
An interesting point Alan, but the later liveries are outside of my era I’m afraid. Regards Charlie
Thanks for this video. This, and your video on freight wagons, is making me more thoughtful on what I put together as a train and in what order, and may well influence what I buy in future as well. You are doing us all a great service.
What a heartwarming comment Clive, you’re too kind. Regards Charlie
Thank you Charlie a very informative video, much appreciated. Your helix looks amazing!
Thanks JSS, I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it. Regards Charlie
I have just restarted Model Railway, but now in N gauge as we have downsized. I want to say how much I enjoy watching your videos.
Thanks KST, that’s very kind of you. Regards Charlie
Carmine was so bright in the dull post-war years, but the colour division was up and down all the time with panelled coaches. At least, when BR maroon came in, and with the Southern Region's attractive green, one could have all the different periods of pre-grouping and grouped carriages with a uniform colour. It was rare to have a set train of similar carriages.
You’re dead right John, however uniform brakes are quite common model railway shows! Regards Charlie
Thanks Charlie 👍this was absolutely fantastic and very interesting. I didn’t release the difference in the MK2 & MK2A. Just a quick question what is the difference with the MK2S to the MK2 & MK2A?
Keep safe and well my friend
Andy
I’m so pleased enjoyed it mate.
I didn’t really understand your question. Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie - I just want to say how much I enjoy your videos. I have been watching your channel for some time now and find myself dipping in and out of the videos very much like I used to do with my Railway Modeller magazines I subscribed to in the early 70's
(the Video Index is a great idea by the way)
So thank you for the sore head, the stiff back, aching knees and empty wallet!
But most of all thank you for getting me back into a hobby I enjoyed as a child
What a heartwarming comment Steve, you’re too kind mate. Regards Charlie
What an interesting video which has filled a gap in my knowledge. Your pieces are always of great detail and quality.I should be appreciative if you could do a sequel Inthe future.Terty😊
Thanks Terry, and I’ll look at a sequel in due course. Regards Charlie
Always informative Charles, you never fail to add to our knowledge from your research, thank you.
Certainly looking forward to your trains running on Chadwick, cheers Paul.
Thanks Paul, it’s very kind of you to say so mate. Regards Charlie
Another great informative video Charlie. It is worth noting that in Cornwall trains were often "parked" at a station platform and then moved forward slightly to allow passengers in rear-ward coaches to disembark, in instances where the platform was not long enough to accommodate the whole train length in one go. I have an emotional attachment to the blue era. It may seem odd to your younger viewers but we did not own a family car until 1980. Holidays, usually on the Isle of Wight, always involved train travel. As regards motor rail terminals here in Cornwall, I cannot remember them all but St Austell and Bodmin Parkway were two. The main guts of the St Austell one still remain. Perhaps I should pop down the road and video it before it gets lost forever.
An interesting comment Roger. I now have a destination for my motor rail trains. Regards Charlie
That was interesting and very informative and sooo needed, well at least by me, Charlie. Coaching stock is such a grey area for me, and all i have done in the past is bought Green ones. I should be ashamed, I will have a hard job working out my green ones Maunsell, Mk1 and all the types etc as I take them out of the boxes and sit them on a track. This lovely video has or will cause me to take a much closer look, and even think of blood and custard in the future. great job chum. best to you as always Paul at Sandling Junction
Thanks Paul, and I do hope that you’re keeping well.
Keep in touch mate, regards Charlie
Great video. What a nerdy subject presented in a simple to understand and logical way. Enjoyed this and the freight train edition and learnt a lot from them both despite not having a train layout. It is also interesting that you have to think of the trains that are going to be run when designing the layout.
Do layouts ever get to a finished point? Curious if people do actually think they have finished building their layout and then just enjoy running the trains or is it something that is never finished? As someone who makes model kits and dioramas there is an end point and you start something new.
A great comment Glenn.
I think as a layout approaches finishing, the workload goes down but the workload on the trains and rolling stock goes up. Regards Charlie
Brilliant video 👍
Thanks Ian, regards Charlie