I have a 8ply kit of Keller shells that I built myself, meaning, I bought the shells with double 45 bearing edges, and did the rest of the operations myself. This kit has been IMPOSSIBLE to tune, and forget low-mid, almost impossible to. Now I really understand why, but I have always known it was the edges. I’m really considering calling Jeff and trying to see if he can save these poor drums that were a labor of love for me. Anything short of some kind of rounded edge is hopeless imho. Thanks for a very insightful podcast. Need more like this.
Thanks to Jeff Kirsch for appearing on the podcast. Disagree with his opinion about maple/poplar drums, though. Just because a drum is half poplar and half maple doesn't mean that the poplar is going to dominate the sound. Tuning definitely plays into how much the poplar will color the sound. Also, maple is a more dense wood than poplar. Thus, while poplar is a significant part of the sound of these hybrid shells, the hardness of maple is going to assert itself throughout a big part of the tuning range.
Thanks amazing & important information. I have a 1970 Slingerland artist I got cheap & it in great condition. I haven’t an an issue ( really 🤔) with resonance but will get my bearing edges done by Kentville drums . I might go to their 🦘 heads - the thickness is another matter. I wonder if you feel the newish Classic fit heads might work better too . Thanks . I used to play an old birch MIJ in the 80 s that roared btw 🙏 . Shoutout to Sounds like a drum to for science & no myths.
I live in Japan and frequent live house jam sessions. As a life long Slingerland player I just bought a pearl maple bebop kit and I,m shocked at the quality. They sound great! 18,12 +14" in old school depths. I japanese makers all go with 16 to18" depth on bass drums!! Low end punch only!!! This kit is old school!! Bass drum is 14" by 18", 14 by14" 8 by12"!!! The Pearl maple decade isn,t available in the US market. I don,t know why.
Uhh, I studied tympani with a renowned teacher back in college. Typms are a brass bowl with a bearing edge and a peddle to adjust pitch ok! The calf heads became a rarity and almost all typms had plastic heads! Kind of obvious cognate but the bearing edge was greased with a very light coating of vasoline to facilitate accurately and consistant in pitch l wonder if dressing the bearing edge exactly flat then cut to profile then hardening with a quality super glue or penetrating epoxy then a final dressing back to flat. Since the wood wouldn,t absorb the vasoline use that to lube the bearing! Just a thought
Luan is definitely a softer wood. Did I say otherwise? I think it largely depends on what era of imperialstar you have. These changed multiple times over the years.
The more I think I learn something about drum construction ( edges, shell type, hoops, hardware, depth, etc...) the more I end up going back to something I previously didn't like. LOL...The ' absolute ' thing about shell construction/bearing edges in todays world is a bit silly. We should all know that people change and change again. And there is ALWAYS an opinion concerning a drum. The end. lol
It's true that tastes change but edges aren't really about taste. To use guitars an analogy, if your tastes change from fender sound to Gibson sound, you still need functional and precise neck, fret and intonation. These things don't make a fender sound like a Gibson. In the same way, if you put different edges on a batch of Pearl drums, they all still sound like a bunch of pearls. Except one will have easier and way more stable tuning. Edges aren't about sound. They're about availability of sound options and range. The biggest myth about edges is that they're used for sound. They shouldn't be. You can limit or expand the existing brand sound with edges but sound is not the purpose.
@@portlanddrums I'll agree to disagree with you here. For example, regardless of the shell construction...I like what some edges do to a drum sonically. Now shells sound different as well. I like to use edges and wood/metal to achieve what i'm looking for. Throw heads, rims and wires in that bag as well. All of it has altered the sound I can get from a particular drum. There is no right or wrong way. I enjoy and plan to continue using all of IT at my disposal.
We're essentially saying the same thing. You like one edge more than the other because it's probably the correct edge. Which compared to an incorrect edge, can certainly sound better. That's the proof there are no options. They affect sound because they effect function but they don't effect brand sound. Dw sounds like Dw and pearl like pearl. The one with edges will sound better but only because it functions better
Yes, I agree. I think that drums sound is affected by the VIBRATING COLUMN OF AIR inside the shell. Like Pan Pipes... Or like if you have a set of congo drums: they are both the same length, but different diameters. Using the Pan Pipe concept: The little drum has a LOWER PITCHED COLUMN of air, and the larger diameter drum has a higher pitched VIBRATING COLUMN OF AIR. You can hit the center of the congo drum with your fist, or the palm of your hand, and test my theory. It usually bears true, but some times not. I think that is due to changing atmospheric conditions. Sonor Phonic, and Premier Resonator drums have thick shells and a different dimension VIBRATING COLUMN OF AIR, and I think they sound better. But the shell it's self? No the SHELL does not really resonate. IMHO
I have a 8ply kit of Keller shells that I built myself, meaning, I bought the shells with double 45 bearing edges, and did the rest of the operations myself. This kit has been IMPOSSIBLE to tune, and forget low-mid, almost impossible to. Now I really understand why, but I have always known it was the edges. I’m really considering calling Jeff and trying to see if he can save these poor drums that were a labor of love for me. Anything short of some kind of rounded edge is hopeless imho. Thanks for a very insightful podcast. Need more like this.
3304. Thank you. Ive been preaching this for a long time.
Thanks to Jeff Kirsch for appearing on the podcast. Disagree with his opinion about maple/poplar drums, though. Just because a drum is half poplar and half maple doesn't mean that the poplar is going to dominate the sound. Tuning definitely plays into how much the poplar will color the sound. Also, maple is a more dense wood than poplar. Thus, while poplar is a significant part of the sound of these hybrid shells, the hardness of maple is going to assert itself throughout a big part of the tuning range.
Thanks amazing & important information. I have a 1970 Slingerland artist I got cheap & it in great condition. I haven’t an an issue ( really 🤔) with resonance but will get my bearing edges done by Kentville drums . I might go to their 🦘 heads - the thickness is another matter. I wonder if you feel the newish Classic fit heads might work better too . Thanks . I used to play an old birch MIJ in the 80 s that roared btw 🙏 . Shoutout to Sounds like a drum to for science & no myths.
Very cool! Say hello to Steele and enjoy your drums!!
This works and Jeff is awesome
fantastic , thank you 🙏
I live in Japan and frequent live house jam sessions. As a life long Slingerland player I just bought a pearl maple bebop kit and I,m shocked at the quality. They sound great! 18,12 +14" in old school depths. I japanese makers all go with 16 to18" depth on bass drums!! Low end punch only!!! This kit is old school!! Bass drum is 14" by 18", 14 by14" 8 by12"!!! The Pearl maple decade isn,t available in the US market. I don,t know why.
Uhh, I studied tympani with a renowned teacher back in college. Typms are a brass bowl with a bearing edge and a peddle to adjust pitch ok! The calf heads became a rarity and almost all typms had plastic heads! Kind of obvious cognate but the bearing edge was greased with a very light coating of vasoline to facilitate accurately and consistant in pitch l wonder if dressing the bearing edge exactly flat then cut to profile then hardening with a quality super glue or penetrating epoxy then a final dressing back to flat. Since the wood wouldn,t absorb the vasoline use that to lube the bearing! Just a thought
Wouldn't a Tama imperialstar be considered a "soft wood" kit being as it's Luan? I'm a bit confused on that.
Luan is definitely a softer wood. Did I say otherwise? I think it largely depends on what era of imperialstar you have. These changed multiple times over the years.
The more I think I learn something about drum construction ( edges, shell type, hoops, hardware, depth, etc...) the more I end up going back to something I previously didn't like. LOL...The ' absolute ' thing about shell construction/bearing edges in todays world is a bit silly. We should all know that people change and change again. And there is ALWAYS an opinion concerning a drum. The end. lol
It's true that tastes change but edges aren't really about taste. To use guitars an analogy, if your tastes change from fender sound to Gibson sound, you still need functional and precise neck, fret and intonation. These things don't make a fender sound like a Gibson. In the same way, if you put different edges on a batch of Pearl drums, they all still sound like a bunch of pearls. Except one will have easier and way more stable tuning. Edges aren't about sound. They're about availability of sound options and range. The biggest myth about edges is that they're used for sound. They shouldn't be. You can limit or expand the existing brand sound with edges but sound is not the purpose.
@@portlanddrums I'll agree to disagree with you here. For example, regardless of the shell construction...I like what some edges do to a drum sonically. Now shells sound different as well. I like to use edges and wood/metal to achieve what i'm looking for. Throw heads, rims and wires in that bag as well. All of it has altered the sound I can get from a particular drum. There is no right or wrong way. I enjoy and plan to continue using all of IT at my disposal.
We're essentially saying the same thing. You like one edge more than the other because it's probably the correct edge. Which compared to an incorrect edge, can certainly sound better. That's the proof there are no options. They affect sound because they effect function but they don't effect brand sound. Dw sounds like Dw and pearl like pearl. The one with edges will sound better but only because it functions better
Tuning to shell pitch is nonsense
Yes, I agree. I think that drums sound is affected by the VIBRATING COLUMN OF AIR inside the shell. Like Pan Pipes... Or like if you have a set of congo drums: they are both the same length, but different diameters. Using the Pan Pipe concept: The little drum has a LOWER PITCHED COLUMN of air, and the larger diameter drum has a higher pitched VIBRATING COLUMN OF AIR. You can hit the center of the congo drum with your fist, or the palm of your hand, and test my theory. It usually bears true, but some times not. I think that is due to changing atmospheric conditions.
Sonor Phonic, and Premier Resonator drums have thick shells and a different dimension VIBRATING COLUMN OF AIR, and I think they sound better.
But the shell it's self? No the SHELL does not really resonate.
IMHO
This dudes trippin