I SENT CBCS A FAKE SIGNATURE - EXPERIMENT #1
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- Опубліковано 16 вер 2024
- In the first video of my series of comic collecting experiments, I test CBCS to see how vigourous their signature authentication process is.
Nothing against CBCS in particular, use them for regular grading they are great.
My top 3 favorite UA-cam channels if you're curious:
Jernos Comics and Pop Culture
/ @jernoscomicspopculture
Jason Parker Comics
/ @jasonparkercomics
Comics with Bueller
/ @comicswithbueller
#comics #comiccollecting #comicdose #comicgrading #cbcs #cgc #grading #mcu
Answered everything I could in this follow up video, this topic is now closed and I'll be moving on to way more fun and less dramatic topics in the future.
ua-cam.com/video/06f0YSVEU_k/v-deo.html
Great video! I hope this reaches more people, I think everyone going through CBCS for anything at the moment really needs to see this.
I can understand why CGC does only witnessed signature verified books now.
At the very least you would think a photograph of the signed comic and the signee would be enough to prove it was legit.
only down fall cgc dont take COA...even from the publisher of the comic.....i have many from coffin comics and also marvel with COA.. and cgc is a no go
True but CBCS is far more superior in accurate grading than CGC of comics (not autographs). CGC has been suspect for yearssss... Think Beckett vs. PSA... this was Beckett's signing authenticator fail.. pure comics grading.. CBCS is still way more accurate.
I think you are putting information out there that needs to be seen. It brings up very good questions about the process and a hole that is quit worrisome. If you were hiding what you were doing and got caught it would be a VERY different story.
Definitely, it's something I always wondered and I just had to know by myself. I got my answer.
Just another reason I don't like signed books: not only do I NOT want ANYONE writing on my book (because it's ugly and stupid), this proves that you are wasting your money paying for signatures that are not officially witness by the company doing the slabbing.
Agreed! Even if I had a book autographed by the artist in PERSON, I'd still ask that they sign the inside cover or first page, rather than putting a maker blemish on the beautiful cover art!
@@StreetPreacherr stupid for some and others like it , matter of taste
Never trust an autograph you do not obtain yourself.
I only get signed comics graded if I’ve picked up the signature myself - actually I thought they had to be witnessed!
There's a difference between 'witnessed' and 'verified'
they have to with CGC, but not with CBCS. That's why I'd never buy a CBCS signatures slab
@@torreymn how can you dobthis what the process ?
@@Q-Bits8 why don't u buy cbcs signed books books explain i just did 2 days ago
What needs to be witnessed and who requires this cbcs or cgc?
Paragraphs 5 & 6 of the CBCS terms of service that a customer has to agree to before submitting a book:
5. The BAS determination as to the authenticity of a particular signature is based on the subjective opinion of BAS. By utilizing the Verified Signature Program, the Customer releases CBCS and BAS from any and all liability which may arise based on any error made during the signature verification process or Services, including but not limited to BAS authenticating a signature in error, or failing to authenticate a signature in error. The accuracy of signature verification is not guaranteed.
6. Customer acknowledges that knowingly submitting a comic book with a forged signature through the Program amounts to fraud, and CBCS reserves all rights and remedies it may have to institute the appropriate legal action as a result of such conduct.
I think the final sentence of the first paragraph is telling. They're not even willing to guarantee the service in any way. I also don't think them calling submitting a known forged signature to be fraud on its own actually amounts to fraud, since criminality depends on intent. This video was more for demonstration and learning.
Interesting video. Thanks for sharing. I'll definitely think twice (or more) from now on when considering purchasing any CBCS verified books.
Lawful intent is “knowingly doing wrongdoing”. This could definitely be interpreted as being fraudulent despite the reasoning behind doing it.
@@infinitemachinecomics8943 Yes, what this guy in the video did IS FRAUD. He is benefitting from it with new subscribers and attention. Yes, most people, if they put enough effort in, can forge a signature. Hell, they can forge money that can fool most people, at a glance, with a mere inkjet printer, but that doesn't mean it needs to be done, even if for demonstration purposes.
This is a very interesting video, thank you for sharing. I knew the verification process was flawed because an opposite incident.
I had a Bigfoot #1 comic that was created by Rob Zombie signed by Zombie at an appearance he did for his Halloween Horror Show haunted houses. I sent it to CBCS and it failed verification.
It's tough to admit, because I have a few verified, but there's no way to be absolutely sure they aren't fakes.
an expert calligrapher can easily forge a signature and yea there are very simple ones like Quesada or even the abbreviated Mcfarlane one, but this not invalidate the verification program, governments and financial institutions struggle with forgery every day, if we should throw away this system then we should throw away a lot of commercial documents.
Have you seen Jason Aaron's sig? Those have always been books I stay away from and only buy witnessed.
This is definitely shocking and gives CBCS a big blow, and untrustworthy verification, it ruins the signature series environment of collectibles, clearly they failed and need better examiners...thanks for the video and disclosure, this should be sent to CBCS
The best thing anyone can do to be safe financially with comic books signing is to buy a raw one and go to comic cons and have the artists whose work is mentioned in the pages or covers and pay for the signature and a photo of you and the artist with the book and once the ink is dry, sleeve it and get it graded and signature verified
I’ll take it off your hands for $20 🤣🤣
I actually got a bunch of proposals for this book after the video but I just can't. It's now sliced and the slab is cracked see the follow up vid. The slices of the book are kept with me :)
So how do you buy legit ones ? by being there personally and taking picture of you and the writer doing it ?
This video will go viral in our community. Someone else should do it aswell and expose this so cbcs does the right thing from now on. Maybe they just wana get paid
I think this was a great idea for a video.....I am an instant subscriber from this one video.
I like the video but also it has flaws because Beckett and CBCS both say it isn't a 100% Process yet their authentication is very high because Beckett has been Verifying signatures for 25+ years. They didn't start in Comics and if you think they would be in business still if they made mistakes all the time you are crazy. Nothing will be full proof but that is why you take that risk
I think what you did is fantastic and very important for everyone to know. Now i know not to waste my money on these.
Now I see why CGC witnessed signatures are better
I try to get pictures or video at the time of signing. Even once showed a pic of my drivers license to prove I was the guy in the pic with Todd Nauk.(blacked out the private info of course). That way at least my buyer has proof from me. Him selling it from there might be tricky. Unless we got a video of me handing it off to him. He could then have a new buyer look at the video of me handing it to him, his ID to prove he is who he says, then the video of me getting it signed, and then my ID to prove original buyer. Then the next guy could sell it and eventually there will be a feature length film of the books history😂
Thank you so much for doing this experiment. I'm glad you did, we finally know the truth. 🙌
Thanks !
Common sense should have told you the truth: there is absolute way to tell that a signature was done by the person you think it was.If you didn't see it or record it, there is no way to be ABSOLUTELY sure.
@@Igaveyoumyfakename but then again is there any way that we can absolutely know for sure that this guy does not work for CGC?
God dammit! Same video was in my plans! Good work, dude!
You can still do it again and see what happens ;)
@@comicdose6591 maybe I'll do the same, but about signatures with COA.
🤣
Like all things we should not take everything at face value just because it's a verified signature, we should always be doing our research to conduct our own "subjective" verification of how true the signature is (compare & contrast). Thank you for putting out this video to help the community.
Thanks for your support
Idk why youre getting so many dislikes, but I like what youre bringing here. The truth. And just simply that. Thanks for this vid
Thanks, people are mad because it devaluate their books. It's fine.
@@comicdose6591 ah, that makes sense. Although as a buyer I appreciate knowing the signature is indeed real. But people will always be pissed if they lose on profit. Such is life
Exactly why I don’t use CBCS
This is such a well done video, and I was happy to see how your process of replicating the signature translated to what ended up in the slab. As a regular CBCS submitter, I've always doubted verified signatures, and firmly believe that the witnessing process employed by CGC and CBCS is really the only way to guarantee any signature. Beckett has been authenticating for years in sports memorabilia, etc. and I find it hard to believe that their methods for authenticating a signature deviate that dramatically from other industry leaders in that space (i.e. PSA). What you just diagnosed is a problem that has plagued signature collectors for quite some time, and now comic collectors know that this same degree of doubt should be applied to their purchases as well (raw or slabbed).
The question that remains for me is whether or not this signature is representative of the process as a whole. Would a common and legendary sig like a Stan Lee or Neal Adams be more easily verifiable than someone like Pichelli? Those big money signatures are the ones that I would be curious about in the future...
Thanks for your comment ! That's something that came to my mind too. Maybe a more expensive book would have had more attention ? Or a more well known signatures ? We will never know. Nevertheless that's no excuse on CBCS
Thanks for watching and stay tuned for experiments like these
Hate that this happened cause I have a few verified sig CBCS books, and now there might be doubt in the market. Love that you took the initiative to try this out. If there’s one fake verified sig, you can bet there’s more. CBCS comics has gotta get this figured out and soon.
There's no way to fix it.
If I don't get it signed myself and I purchase it from someone else it has to have a COA
Yeah, but what good is a COA when 99% of the time that's from the person selling it?
Great experient. For as long as signatures have existed, so have forgeries. Just the name of the game. Personally I don't by verified. I do submit my own for my PC.
Thanks 🙏 yeah I would do the same ! Keep them in your PC and enjoy the beauties 😄
I've talked to a bunch of people that have had their signitures rejected from verification too. So, it goes both ways. But this is a really great video. If anything it'll help CBCS tighten up their game.
Thanks !
Literally unlucky to every poor souls /dealer who has a loft full of these 😕
Great video and Great test idea I would only Get a signature if it’s by CGC because they have to be there to prove it’s signed by who it says it is and I only Get something signed if I’m the one Getting something signed in person so I’d know it’s Real if that makes any sense
I looked up a bunch of Pichellis signatures. I could see how they verified it. Almost every one of her signatures is different. So I could totally see why. Its close enough to her signature.
Then they should not take the risk if her signatures are inconsistent
Still an excellent video.
BTW I would question thier Witnessed program too, since they will authorize near anyone as a witness without any real background check. It would be incredibly easy to substiture in fake signatures along with real ones.
I was a witness for them when I first started back up, and while I was just getting signatures for myself, it occured to me how easy it would have been to slide in fakes too and sell them.
I hope you contacted this with him so they could follow up and make changes
Last year I heard a rumor that there are collectors who forged Jack Kirby signatures and were successful with getting them verified from CBCS... That is just not cool.
It's horrible for our communities. CBCS needs to stop and tighten up its program by asking origins and other proof of the signatures.
Great video. I had CBCS verify a Jack Kirby signature before. Who knows if it was actually a real one now. 🤔
I'm doubting all my cbcs verified sign now ..
@@comicdose6591 I'm sharing your video on some comic groups on Facebook. Some angry people might start commenting though. They are very protective of their grading companies.
@@NampaKing12 it's been a week I've had 90% positive people and 10% angry and mad cbcs fans (or sellers/vendors), it's cool ;)
I could literally fake Sara Pichelli's auto in 2 seconds.. This guy isn't faking Kirby.
Great experiment. I’ve always wondered the same thing about CBCS. Curious to see how they respond.
Thanks
LOL, with a lawsuit. Read T&C's it states it constitutes fraud and will be prosecuted and this guy just admitted it on video.
@@SuperMoleRetro yeah. I wouldn’t be surprised if CBCS goes after this guy. It’s literally in their terms of service. I’d be a little worried if I had posted this video. Now if he had submitted a fake signature and later found out it was forged then he would probably be ok, but he knowingly submitted a fraudulent signature.
@@SuperMoleRetro Just because CBCS calls it fraud doesn't make it legally so. In law, fraud must result in unlawful gain, which the uploader to this channel can easily disprove occurred by showing this video.
@@infinitemachinecomics8943 Why would you be worried about a video that exonerates him of fraudulent intent...
Something to be said about CGC signature verification
How long did it take to get it back from grading ?
That explains why they require a witness for signatures.
I think a lot of people would be amazed at how many fake signatures that are labeled legit by so called experts at authenticating
sadly true
Seeing a lot of hate but you're very transparent in why you did this. I know people are saying you should not have done it through someone else's accound as you are ruining their rep. But they are a dealer. So cbcs will know they are receiving books from many people and not take it personally with that person.
Before this i would never buy a cbcs verified and had a lot of doubts on how they could 100% verify these signatures. This proves even more to stay clear of them.
I think this was a great experiment to do to get an idea of how credible the process is
Thanks for your support 🙏 I expected people to be unhappy. I think a lot are also unhappy because it devaluate their books.
Maybe the signature is authentic and you've forgotten who you were
The for the work
I just got a cbcs spider-man verified signature from peter david.
Very very interesting, thanks for doing this vid. I’ve always wondered myself especially since my own signature changes from one to another. I just signed 225 copies of a COA for my exclusive comic and they all look a bit different so how could anyone really authenticate it? Maybe we should all just take “verified” with a grain of salt and not value them quite as high as witnessed…
Obviously the value tied to the signatures must be between witnessed and verified/authenticated like you mentioned. This video to me is so misleading, its outrageous. I found it on reddit with the title that he "faked a horrible" sig, when in fact, he practiced it enough to make it look basically identical with the intention to fraud the system (as if this isn't a known issue in any collectible community focused on signatures).
Well done. I have questioned the legitimacy of CBCS since they started verifying. I don't believe there is anything sinister going on, it just goes to show how difficult verifying a signature can be and how pointless it is. There are unscrupulous people out there that would (and have) take advantage of this. I applaud you for your efforts. I don't understand people that question your motives. I think this is great as an exposure video. It gets information out there, it will get the community talking and questioning and will, hopefully, force CBCS to respond (don't hold your breath). If I could add one suggestion, a better close up of multiple real signatures and your fake signature, side by side with a demonstration of the differences would be helpful. Thanks again for doing this.
Thanks for your very detailed comment 🙏 I'll release next week a follow up video with your suggestion and other suggestions I've had. As well as of course the video of me destroying that slab !
Great. Now anyone can commit fraud with CBCS.
You should try Stan Lee's sig on a book that came out after he died. That would be amusing if it worked.
this is actually so funny and big it could work 😂😂😂 maybe next one ...
this was smy 1st thought too lol
Maybe one of the R.I.P. Stan Lee covers?
Gotta make it something insignificant though. Any key or popular book will have more attention bought to it. Maybe something that was released a week after or the same week he died.
Verified signatures should only be graded as authentic if they come with a COA in my opinion and these should be kept inside of the slab along with the book in the back to avoid people trying to get them out and using them for other books
COAs can be forged.
Anyone can make their own COA. It means nothing.
COA's are garbage IMHO. Anyone can forge a COA easily.
There so many dislike in your video , even though your video was very informative and it show awareness that even professional 3rd party grader/signature verification can make mistakes too. This video should help cbcs step up there system because if anybody can make forgery, It just ruin their credibility. As a person that has some sign books; I know cgc won't verify them and the only choice I got is cbcs. Thank you for your informative video.
Thanks, I think the dislike are mostly because people realise I might have devaluated their books
Bunch of CBCS fanboys butthurt that their sig verified books might have fake sigs on them.
Hey bro I'll tell you what not fake. That ff #1 by Dan slott has my name in the back. I sent a letter in and got printed
Wow thanks for doing this experiment. Very informative.
The only comics I ever purchased that were already signed were Wizard authenticated and sealed. Aside from that, I have a ton of signed comics by Brian Michael Bendis, Mark Bagley and David Finch. At the time, I was young and didn’t know anything about CGC verification. I wanted to get them verified and slabbed by CBCS because CGC won’t. But now I have doubts.
Very interesting. I like how you showed your work. CBCS /Beckett should contact you and thank you for shining a light on a problem.
"Thank him"? For breaking the TOS? Anyone can forge a signature, given enough practice, exactly what "light" did he shine?
Wow this will for sure cause a ton of arguments, fights, debates, nervous breakdowns but I'm glad that the info is out there now. Experiment successful
So? Any updates on this? Did they ever respond?
Unless a sig is witnessed in person, a good forgery will pass. That is the difference between cbcs (assumed) and cgc (witnesses). Now, the experiment should also include a fake signature that looks close, but is obvious that it is not. If this passes then there is an issue with cbcs sig verification. Same thing goes for buying an autographed photo of a movie star. Unless you witness the signing, good chance it was forged. I have lots of signed comics from comicons but have no evidence that they are legit only coincidence that the artist was there at this comicon.
Ouch! And I picked up a CBCS 4.0 copy of Spider-man 4 with a “verified” Stan Lee signature just a few months ago. 🤦🏻♂️
I question everything from CBCS verified signed now ...
Hope it worked out for you!!
stan was at so many events and would sign anything, his signature is not worth much at all, it's more than likely real
@@5ft4inchloser Update on it. I sent it back to CBCS fir a press and clean and got a 5.5. So in case the sig is suspect I just hedged my bets with a huge grade bump.
I showed this to a few people and they think the video is faked. I asked how, and they said you already had the book graded with the real signature and then signed a raw copy and made it look like the slab you already had was the result. Is there any way you can provide concrete proof that this is legit?
Compare 5:45 with this picture ibb.co/0n44X1V 😉 (or change friends 🤣)
BTW you're being talked about right now on CBSI Tales from the flipside on UA-cam you're famous now dude
Oh lord ...thanks for letting me know
@@comicdose6591 congrats!
I have an Adam Hughes signature. that I bought in the wild.. I have no doubt it's real, but it's so easy to copy I haven't sent it in.. if they rejected it I would be mad, but then again, I didn't see it get signed.. so it's a lose lose.
Cool. But where's the video where you destroy the forgery?
Releasing Friday or Saturday ;)
To everyone here, I'm blown away by the amount of support and love I received ❤️ I'm just shocked by how all this did blow up so quick 😅 I'll be releasing a video next week with a maximum of answers to the tons of questions I've received. (I will close my blinds this time). You're all amazing 👏 You can follow me on IG at @comicdose_yt
You definitely need a update video if CBCS gets in contact with you.
I would love to hear what CBCS has to say too...
Surely I will
New sub here. Look forward to checking out your channel. Love the concept of your channel
Loved the video, all people that disliked it probably buy only verified signatures and are mad this will bring down the value of their books! Keep up the good work!!
Yup :)
Cool video! Is it illegal to copy someone's signature? I'm not sure.
Thanks, depends which country you live but most likely yes it is
@@comicdose6591 right I believe it is forgery... nonetheless great video.
Well done. This was a great test. I really thought CBCS was starting to step up their game with Beckett's take over. This also makes sense why GCG requires a witness.
Subscribed ,
Great video bravo I'm French too 👍. Has you said her signature is very sample and of course during the verification you can't really tell because your signature was smooth and almost the same has her but try to do a Stan lee or Snyder or Miller it will be almost impossible. For example Jim Lee signature is very easy also so avoid buying his unless its witnessed signature . Anyway don't forget that at the verification they are humains and mistakes can happen unfortunately. Hope Cbcs will watch your video.
I fully agree, then we need a better process, maybe we could give cbcs additional data like a photo / a video of the signature / date of the signature etc ... and without this information for signatures that are too simple they can just avoid the verification.
@@comicdose6591 yes maybe for simple artists signature. Why not.
Just to be safe, your next video should be you destroying the forged slap.
Next vid dropping tonight ;)
Doesn’t matter he’s still violated terms of service and committed fraud and his video will be used to prove his guilt in any likely coming legal proceedings
@@stichhavoc88 Do you even know what fraud is? By law, it's any deceptive action that must result in unlawful gain. Just because CBCS calls it 'fraud' doesn't make it legally so. This video is proof it was for educational purposes, how does it prove his guilt?
@@vibecity5381 he’s showing he forged a signature and sent it in which fraud aside is a violation of CBCS’s terms of service and they can now prove he knowingly violated them so there’s one potential legal problem right there. 2. Forging a signature can be labeled as fraud/identity theft but how that works in France I can’t say so there is that. But we also can’t fully trust the slab he destroyed is the one he forged or that he won’t at some point try to sell it as legit etc. So yes he committed fraud and identity theft, violated a company’s terms of service, can possibly also be taken to court for potential damages this could cause the company. So fraud aside this guy better hope CBCS doesn’t come after him. Also this guy could’ve found a better way to do this experiment without going the route he did as potentially committing a crime and or shady practices shouldn’t be rewarded either
@@stichhavoc88 Forgery isn't fraud unless for unlawful gain. If I copied Walt Disney's signature but don't sell it, I'm not gaining anything out of it. CBCS's terms is wrongly labeling all forgery fraud by ignoring the "unlawful gain" element required to prosecute. As such, I repeat, uploader has nothing to worry about since there are matching certification numbers in the videos of destruction. And if you're no even American, why are you speaking about our laws? Also whose identity did he steal??
signature's are so stupid, ruins the artwork of the book, I prefer clean books, I never buy signature books, only if the artist signed in front me.
so im just a fan who collects signatures & sketches often since childhood mostly at WonderCon Anaheim and San Diego Comic-Con and also from having in store signings at a shop I used to work at. I would just get my comics signed and then just put em in a box... now I am thinking if they are worth anything at all since I have no witness or really proof other than orginal signature or sketches speaking for themselves. I've never thought of selling, just assumed I would hand them down to my next of kin. but say if they wanted to sell them in the future are they screwed from the value most of the keys would have been if not signed?
Honestly I don't know 🤷♂️ that's a good question. I'm still sure CBCS/Beckett can verify certain signatures with a high confidence. In the future if you could record the signature it's probably you're best guarantee. Each signature placements is unique and each signature itself is unique. If you record it I'd say it's with high confidence valid.
just ask on face , there are several autograph groups there , they have about as much knowledge as authenticators & its free
The result of this experiment is concerning. However, there can never be a 100% guarantee when verifying an unwitnessed signature. Even the most experienced professionals can make mistakes sometimes because it is very difficult to verify handwritten signatures. I am only speaking for myself here, but when I look at my own signature on different documents or if I sign my name on a piece of paper several times in a row, my signatures may have some variations. The differences can be more obvious depending on the situation (for example, if I signed while I am in a rush vs. signed carefully or signed with different types of pens, which may affect how the signature looks). Thus, although I agree that CBCS dropped the ball in this experiment, I personally will not say that I will never buy books with unwitnessed signatures. If I am buying a book with an unwitnessed signature, I am accepting a certain level of risk that the signature may be fake and I will adjust the price that I am willing to pay accordingly. Just my 2 cents but thanks for sharing your experience with us.
Never delete this video!!!!! This is pure gold
I think this is fake
And why so, look the follow up video bro :)
@@comicdose6591 because I have gotten a couple sig rejected from them that looked spot on
That doesn't mean it's 100% guarantee and this proves it ;)
And they don't claim 100%
Then what's the point. God knows how many of these verified signs are fake in the wild.
There's always chance for error, even with CGC witnessed! Why? because humans are fallible. Handwriting expertise is real and legitimate, but not without error. You picked an easy signature to mimic. Nevertheless, I don't like the outcome of your experiment. Cheers.
Considerably less than with CBCS. Anyone can be a CBCS witness, takes a hell of a lot more to witness for CGC>
This is on the level of PGX type of action. It sucks, cause I want there to be competition to CGC, but this kinda wrecks CBCS.
Naw you wouldn’t get in trouble for forging a signature. They would be the ones getting in trouble for verifying someone else’s signature and selling it for a profit
Read the T&C's. It is an intentional attempt to defraud. They may take a business hit on the verification process. It is the same thing as a person saying they found a worm in their hamburger and later found out the guy put it in there for attention. The company loses business because a fraud was perpetrated intentionally on the company. The business has legal recourse to go after the fraudster.
@@SuperMoleRetro if a business perpetuates signatures to be authentic and takes monetary gains. That also is fraud. Nice try cbcs nice try lol
@@SuperMoleRetro CBCS had been walking a tight rope on these signature authentication scheme for awhile. Hope a straw like this break the camels back
Dude I get you wanted to prove a point but this was the WRONG WAY to do it. You have violated their terms of service and committed fraud. Also they can now go after you for damaging their business and their brand. Posting this video online is tan amount to signing a legally usable in court confession. Have fun dealing with the likely litigation lawyers you’ll be hearing from
I don't understand why people deviate from the topic. What I did and the legal implications it may have are between me and cbcs. I'm responsible for my action I don't understand why so many people care if I get a lawsuit or not 😅. Thanks for caring tho
@@comicdose6591 because what you did shouldn’t be praised either
@@comicdose6591 also you didn’t really prove anything that most don’t know already about any kind of signature verification. Mistakes will happen with these things
@@stichhavoc88 I understand, I'm definitely not encouraging anyone to do the same 😅 and yeah I did prove something as It's the first time it's been recording on tape, solid evidence.
@@comicdose6591 ummm dude hate to break it to you, yes you are encouraging others to do this by making a video out of it and uploading it on UA-cam for views, attention ect. Again no you didn’t all you did was just make a video that showed what most who collect any signed paraphernalia that authentication services are not 100% bullet proof to error
The reality is it’s not hard to forge a signature, especially an easy one like the one you went for. Even professionals can be fooled. If your sad enough to try what you’ve done, well says a lot about yourself.
It says more about the professionalism of the company.
@Eddie B ... it does? What does it say about him? I’m curious.