Why this GPTK update will change Mac gaming FOREVER
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- Опубліковано 1 чер 2024
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Quick video about the recent update to GPTK 1.1 was exclusive to CodeWeavers for 2 whole days, and what this might mean for Apple's strategy on Mac gaming in the future - could Apple be investing in its own Proton-like compatibility layer for macOS in collaboration with CodeWeavers?
Will be doing a full Game Porting Toolkit 1.1 video once it is fully released. In the mean-time check this CrossOver + CXPatcher video tutorial: • Game Porting Toolkit v...
Timestamps:
00:00 GPTK 1.1 was EXCLUSIVE to CrossOver?
01:04 History of Game Porting Toolkit
02:29 D3DMetal licensing changed
03:01 Mac gaming needs Windows games
03:37 CrossOver and Windows gaming on Mac
04:31 Apple and CodeWeaver's goals are opposed
05:05 Why are Apple and CodeWeavers working together?
06:03 What it means for the future of Mac gaming
07:21 Apple could make 'Proton-for-Mac'
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I don't really think a translation layer opposes Apple's current strategy. You can compare it with Rosetta 2: There was little to no native ARM software available, so they made Rosetta to jumpstart the ARM transition. And despite Rosetta's existence, many developers chose to make a native ARM version of their products to further use Apple Silicons capabilities. So maybe this is a Rosetta 2 moment for gaming...
The difference is crossover requires three different translation layers - Rosetta for CPU instructions, WINE for system calls etc and D3DMetal for the graphics API. All that combines for, on average, a much worse experience than just Rosetta alone.
@@thebuddercweeper and all of these translations is done through Rosetta anyway, so It further pushes back performance
I would've like also D3DVulkan. Or add missing features to existing project with similar goal - MoltenVK. Not all games through MoltenVK, it would've been nice to have official support like Apple did with d3d12.
The software that Rosetta 2 runs is already written in Apple's way (APIs and so on) and it's easier to port. But this translation layer lets you avoid getting into Apple's ecosystem.
@@thebuddercweepercan confirm, mac ports that run 64 bit via rosetta run better than other games that have to use all the different translation layers
I think it's smart, GPTK might make it easier for devs to port their games over, but it'll still be an incredibly uphill battle trying to convince them to port games to Mac if there's not a large enough install base of Mac users interested in gaming. And stuff like Crossover/emulation provides by far the quickest path to making Macs viable as a gaming platform in the short-term. Convincing devs to actually make native Mac ports is a longer term goal.
I agree. It's a catch 22 situation - the Mac gaming user base is small because there aren't enough quality games built for macOS, but there aren't enough quality games built for macOS because the Mac gaming user base is small. Hopefully the interest in, and development of ARM chips from Intel and Qualcomm, for example, will standardize ARM development across the board.
I'm stoked that CD Projekt Red has jumped on board, just having released The Witcher 1 & 2 natively for Mac, likely to get their feet wet and better understand the commitment/ workload needed to translate their larger titles (Witcher 3 and Cyberpunk).
@@fivepiecekit_ Really there's nothing special or different about ARM, in most cases you can tweak an x86 app and have it compiling and running on ARM within says if not hours. In the case of games, it's mostly Metal and the different type of GPU Apple uses that needs to be optimised for.
@@thebuddercweeper Well, one would think there's some major heavy lifting and man hours that go into it with so many devs opting to not have macOS port of their games. If it was as simple as you describe it, then why wouldn't a dev make both a PC and Mac version, right.
@@fivepiecekit_ You're conflating Mac and ARM. Ports between operating systems and between graphics APIs take a lot of time, but recompiling for ARM, all else being equal (i.e. recompiling a directx windows app for windows on ARM or recompiling an x86 Metal macOS app for ARM) is quite straightforward.
Sure, but you get what I’m referring to.
If this is Apple's new strategy, then they should rename Metal to Cheese, after all, it's the perfect accompaniment to Wine.
As someone from Wisconsin, this would make me happy.
hen egg problem. No games on mac => no one buys a mac for games => repeat. Maybe apple took a look at what valve did. Steam deck with linux would be impossible if they just begged developers to target linux. Translating games may be annoying and worse for everybody, but sadly the only way to brute force adoption. Native games will come eventually when there is enough purchase power coming from mac. However they got their hands on 1.1, I hope crossover and apple developers are in direct contact.
90% of why you upgrade nvidia drivers on your windows machine is, that nvidia optimizes games through their software. So even on windows you have hardware companies optimizing for their stuff. Never hope that game devs will do the job for you.
Have you not recently seen the sales on standard M series Macs? Remember actual power hungry Windows laptops require a beefy power adapter and cost if not more than a MacBook Pro for gaming depending on what you spend on a Windows Gaming Laptop.
With that in mind if Apple can engineer their way through GPTK and several jump on board it’d be simply wonderful. I mean my first reason for buying a Mac over a gaming machine is battery life. I mean let’s be honest yeah gaming on a MacBook Pro will still greatly deplete the battery (you just can’t avoid that) however, when you’re not gaming and simply want to run basic tasks would not tax as much battery life as it would on a windows machine without your PC getting hot. Even simply just watching UA-cam. Then there’s the hope that your PC supports Advance Optimus so you’d have to go into that and sure you can disable the dGPU to try and squeeze more battery life (which still can be shite mate), but you see where I’m getting here? Second, nothing beats the speakers on a MacBook Pro. As much as I’m sure people hate to hear it, MSI, Lenovo, Razer, Alienware and etc aren’t quite doing the job… after spending literally thousands I’m now forced to buy a pair of headphones as well. I left ASUS out because they are literally in my mind the only company that adds decent audio on Windows machines, but then you get the recent QC control issues with their displays and etc… Again, if Apple can pull this off, I’d rather spend $2400 on a well built and optimized MacBook Pro, that’s capable of playing DX12 games and also running small tasks at the expense of using minimal wattage and granting me extended battery life than a laptop that will cost me the same with the opposite benefits and hassle. Just my own opinion 🤷🏻♂️
super excited for 23.7 when it's avail!!! such progress in a short amount of time. very exciting
I can't wait for 23.8
Both M2 and M3 have had slow sales with very few people upgrading. The main reason is that the M1 is powerful enough for the vast majority of applications and most people interested in getting a Mac has gotten one. Apple possibly realized that if they want to increase their market share they need to attract more gamers, with the added benefit of gamers upgrading sooner than most consumers.
I feel that Apple might have saw how Steam Deck was so successful that led to creation of so many similar products like ASUS ROG Ally and saw possible their place in the market. If they can bring devs to port games to Mac first, then it won't be too hard to port game again into iOS.
There’s a chicken or egg issue with gaming on Mac. If Crossover makes Macs a legitimate gaming platform for prosumer users willing to put in work, it will create demand for Mac ports (easier to install / run) because there’s a known gaming base.
As a newbie with a new M3 Pro Macbook.. is there a straight forward video, beginning to end, on downloading this to start playing Windows games on Steam?
Embracing wine/crossover for Mac gaming is a wise move. Most people don't care about the game is native or not as long as it runs without much problem. And many old games that have no hope of being ported to ARM Mac will be great asset for improving Mac gaming environmrnt. Apple should embrace steam, too, wholeheartedly. Not just steam game for Mac OS version, but also whole x86/Windows based PC game title libraries the user already owns. One obstacle for switching from Windows laptop to MacBook is game library user already own in PC/Windows steam. The wine/crossover/proton layer can lower such obstacle.
They could but I don't think having "games that are playable with some issues" fits with Apple's philosophy. This can be left to the third party apps like Whiskey/CrossOver etc. They are already allowing this then with non-commercial GPTK. On their store you would have only the equivalent of Valve's games that are "Deck Verified". A "Deck Verified" game in Apple's world is simply a "macOS verified" game, it just works. No audio issues. No controller issues. Allows all controllers already supported by the OS. etc.
I don’t think Apple’s goals have to be entirely at odds with Code Weavers-similar to Valve benefiting by any purchase on their store (whether on a Steam Deck or ROG Ally, for example), Apple benefits from an increased interest and install base on their platform. They can foster the translation layer idea in tandem with their porting process, as one hand really feeds the other and when translation layers get better, porting to iOS devices should get easier as well, no?
Crossover was terrible from my experience with the M1 Pro base model. In my honest opinion as a Mac user Apple gaming DOES NOT start until developers start releasing native arm ports. translation software for games to get below steam deck performance on an over two thousand dollar machine is a hard sell for the price. I don’t know if having gaming and Mac OS is THAT important for most but an m1 air with a budget desktop would give you a much better experience in hindsight.
Used an m1 pro with crossover for abit myself and it was perfectly cromulent. Not sure what your issues are. Its expectation management though. First gen Arm mac + mid range yeah you wont run hogwarts legacy at 60+ fps or Spiderman. But the fact that it can even brute force 15-20/30 frames is still very impressive. The newer generation mid range laptops are alot more fleshed out and with the constant improvements to dxvk and gptk i do feel it will become feasible
And you don't buy a Macbook for the absolute best price to performance in games anyways, you buy it since it's one of the best laptops on the market in terms of performance, software, design and batterylife. Biggest turnoff is that it doesn't boot most PC games, if it did I wouldn't care if it looses me 20% performance, I have a dedicated Gaming PC for that, so on longer trips i could just accept the lower performance along with smaller screen, worse keybord, speakers and every other compromise you do for portabillity
@@skapshnever in the history of my life have I seen or heard the word “cromulent” lol. Just got a vocabulary lesson in the UA-cam comments.
Mac will never be the go to device or platform for gaming. But it certainly wouldn’t hurt Mac if games just worked. As someone who has a gaming PC I wouldn’t mind having a normal laptop that can play games occasionally when I’m not around my PC. I don’t want some ugly RGB “gamer” looking laptop nor do I want a laptop that runs out of battery at twice the rate of a MacBook. So as long as the game is playable and not stuttery, I couldn’t care less.
I believe the situation is akin to rosetta vs native arm at the early state of apple silicon transition. Having native app and games is obviously the ultimate goal, but when the user base of a platform is too small, developers will not put in resources to develop native apps and games. So, a translation layer can be a temporary measure, when people can use the apps and play the games as they desire, the user base will increase, as a result, developers will put more resources to create native apps or games, like all the native arm apps on Mac now. The only issue that make people hesitate to buy a Mac is the lack of games, something like proton can definitely alleviate the whole situation. when the user base get larger, developers will make native Mac ports.
Do you think Apple will license Crossover to be included in the MacOS. This may be a way to get more gamers to buy a Mac computer.
If Crossover is free then I'll sure get a Mac.
@@briansmith2739 It “can be“. Not gonna lie, I used it pirate to check if it worked and then decided to buy it because these people absolutely deserve it.
Well hopefully then apple would buy crossover or fund them as that is their main funding
Andrew, I still guess I'm not clear though: If we get the current/latest version (23.7 Beta) of CrossOver, do we still have to use CX Patcher and a separate instance of GPTK in order to get it to be 'the most compatible' ? Or does 23.7 Beta of CrossOver include these enhancements?
CXPatcher will give you the latest version of MoltenVK, DXVK and GPTK. It just happens that 23.7 Beta has the latest versions of GPTK (but not MoltenVK and DXVK) for now at least.
But nowadays games are using avx or avx2 which is not supported by the hardware. Looking forward to Apple to do some magic to make those games work on mac. But then windows arm may become a thing with recent release of snapdragon elite x, so if it becomes a hit like apple arm then it may be a ray of hope for mac gaming as it will be slightly easy for game developers to port their windows arm game to mac arm game.
Note:- I am not a game developer, these are just my thoughts on this topic.
WOW! Ive been both an IOS and Mac user for over a decade and have been waiting for Apple to acommodate mainstream gaming for years now and I must say that this recent update has me more excited than ever for the possibility for gaming on Mac and IOS!
i know this is not somehow related i'm a developer, and i am creating a native arm games for silicon mac using unreal engine using my m1, and i hope other developers would follow too.
Is the M3 Max in the Cyberpunk gameplay, the 14/30 or the 16/40 version?
Thx for response
I live in Ecuador, and I bought a CrossOver to play several games, thanks to your code. It was very cheap... ;_; I still have problems with HomeWorld Remastered, but I can play the originals... Several games run better on CrossOver than on my Steam Mac version.
They are joining resources; now, Mac is not for gaming... but also 20% of the market share of computers. Apple knows that it could grow a little more, but to do it, it needs to have more games; a lot of people aged 20-30 and 40 like to play games. I play only 1 hour daily, but I want a computer with good games. If several people bought a Mac because they could take CrossOver and play games, that would be the potential market for game developers.
Do you want a potential market of 20% of computers? How many have a CrossOver?
I bought my first Mac in 2005, a computer that always prepared me for work. Since then, I have purchased several computers; my only disappointment was the Windows ones. So I am a Mac user with few games, and thanks to CrossOver, I am trying games that were not for Mac, and I wanted to play before.
Now, it is wing-wing for both companies... Now, we will see the future.
Can i upgrade the crossover and the patch without losing the entire game? or I have to keep downloading game all the time
What bottle do you use for launching Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order
?
I've been on a post-quest 3 purchase no PCVR compatibility for mac rabbit hole for months now and this video has gotten me really excited about future possibilities with my M2 Pro... I wonder if crossroads might finally scratch the surface of "compatibility" sooner than later. All sorts of theories I have that still remain untested. Curious to see if anyone has tried running SteamVR inside of crossroads 23.5 since the new quest app was released by steam weeks ago. I also wonder if shadow might be a creative option to get something FUNCTIONAL up and running. If anyone has any experience with the aforementioned please do let me know.
While Apple has the tools in place to help push game development and releases on their platform forward, it's not going to go anywhere without either the company 1) acquiring a well-known AAA developer to create native ports and exclusives and/or 2) partnering with a large publisher like Ubisoft to bring existing AAA games to the Mac.
I have a problem - nothing is working for me. I click on Steam, and it seems to start, but I don't see its window, though it's present in the menu
What software are you using for graphics information?
Andrew, in your opinion, is there a chance that we will be able to play games that have anticheats in the future?
the steam decks proton has achieved this in some games, but the developers of those games have allowed that
games like valorant have a kernel level anticheat...those games will still not run
There is a chance with easy anticheat and battleye
lets go!! looking forward to the grand future of mac gaming.
Is this any way to implement Rosetta two into Crossover? or is it already there?
Please, please explain how to launch Mount and Blade: Bannerlord on mac m1 pro? I followed your instructions by using Porting Kit on Somona, but no luck - I get shader error on start campaign and skirmish ((
How about Microsoft flight simulator 2020, will it be available to run on m2 max or m3 chip with gptk?
As a gamer I really hoped Valve with Proton would create a successful precedent that could not be ignored! Maybe it’s really going be like that. Can’t wait to follow the developments of this.
It's fascinating ... what I can't wait to see happen is Valve could come up with a console of their own, and this console will immediately have the Steam's catalog into your living room .... except that where Nintendo and Sony are asking you to fork out 60 EUR for a game you may not even enjoy that much after a few hours. .. with Steam there are so many sales you can get so much more games for the same amount of money, especially if you dont care about playing AAA game the moment they come out. And then this console could also power and standalone PCVR headset with streaming. And, since it's Valve, you may be able to upgrade the GPU and RAM eventually.
where can I find a list of game compatibility for crossover?
Thanks! What game showed on 3:07?
I got an Xbox series s for 50 quid to play games… it’s not bad. But I would rather play games on my Mac Pro M1 14inch as the screen is really nice and it’s portable! Do you think I will be able to run any good titles on it Andrew?
Anyone have an idea on what Parallels is going to do? I run Parallels for some games I can't get running under Crossover. Will this work spill over into Parallels space? Thanks for any insight. Best Regards and Best Wishes.
If CrossOver popularity can prove for developers that people are actually interested in Mac gaming, then it could make them more motivated to actually porting games over.
For developers it is probably more interesting porting over newer games, because those are most likely to be profitable. No need to do separate marketing for older games. Just tell people that the new game will also be available for macOS.
CrossOver has it place in providing backwards compatibility for games that are unlikely to be ported.
It is a bit like rosetta. No question that apple want all software to be native ARM64, but there will be always legacy software. So this lead to a loop that no user base, no developer, no software, no user base. Rosetta was made to break this loop. It make perfect sense to see it this way, Apple just did the same thing but in graphic.
So will it be possible to get Epic Games on Mac?
Interesting! Apple is changing the Mac gaming strategy.... from "No!" to something else apparently! :P
I am so glad Apple works closely with others. ^^
Maybe you can try to Play Planet Zoo ? With Version 1.5 it works Great on Crossover. Now with new Version 1.5.1 or Higher Planet zoo doesn't Start. It don't Work with Crossover and Whiskey. Maybe you has an Idea how we can fix that
@andytizer Hi Andrew. Thank you for another great video.
Have you experienced Valheim through crossover recently?
I’m running an M2 Max Mac Studio and would like to know how well it can perform. Would love to see a vid on Valheim 😊
I didn't find any information about DRM (like Denuvo) on Apple Silicon Macs. That's why Apple allows CrossOver to exists, but it just question of time and everyone will forget about Wine.
can you test maxed out m2 max gaming performance?
How to play 60fps on parallel? Please i really want to play sekiro using parallel in 60fps😢
Cz crossover cant install cracked game (sekiro), i using parallel for alt, but cant get 60fps
My mac : m1 air
the new update makes some of the game that i couldn't play works EXTREMELY SMOOTH
What I can see happening is beef up GPTK and Codeweaver integration to get all the features that Apple wants to support (Ray Tracing) better compatibility.
Once sufficient gaming performance and success with gamers moving to Apple has been achieved, Apple will incentivize developers to port games over the Mac that has Mac specific functionalities NOT FOUND in PCs.
Apple's biggest sell is ability to play games unplugged for prolong period of time as well as amazing thermals.
That will be a entice developers to do the hard work.
This video is really interesting to me given the absolute hysteria you were in about GPTK when in first released about Apple trying to kill Crossover or something, even though GPTK literally cannot do what Crossover can and vice-versa. It was so obvious that this would happen given that Apple have worked with Crossover before. Ever wondered with Crossover can run 32 bit Windows applications when Mac OS specifically blocked the running of all 32 bit Mac apps. It's because Apple added a special exception in the kernel for Crossover so they could run these 32 bit apps. They have previous of working together and why wouldn't they, they both want gaming on the Mac and see the easiest path to this as being through powerful translation layers. The only difference is the opinion on whether the translation layer should be implemented with Apple obviously wanting it embedded as a core part of a Mac version rather than an app that you run the windows version through
Apple should buy Codeweavers
Is there a chance that Apple will purchase the company of Code Weavers?😂
I have attempted to play any of my games on my M1 Max with 32GPU core and none of my games seems to want to run. It just starts up and gives me a black screen for like 10 minutes and nothing.
Games I am attempting to play are things like Final Fantasy VII Remake, Final Fantasy IX Remaster, Monster Hunter World, and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle Shredders Revenge.
Wondering if anyone may have a suggestion how I can get it to work?
Nvidia geforce now
@coprilettodelnapoli5466 lol what a smart comment!
@@superwebsitehero7261 are you being sarcastic or what?
Let's go @Linux and Mac! Together we can make a dent in the Windows monopoly.
Anybody knows the game at 3:05? looks awesome
Which is the game at 3:03 ?
Anyone know if this would work for VR games?
I have an M2 pro but I play games on a 7 year old 7700k with an Nvidia 2060. I have yet to find even 1 game that runs better on my mac (but I am sure a handful true ports exist). What is my gaming rig worth? $250? That can't be far off.
Hell yeah!
Hey thanks for the video, tried Act of Aggression the game runs great, but the whole screen is upside down 99% of the time once the skirmish game starts (switches on almost each frame ). Has someone ever seen some issues like that?
Sounds like a common MoltenVK issue, maybe try CXPatcher with CrossOver 23.6.
@@Andytizer will do thank you
@@Andytizer it’s v23.6 actually
It never been more FOREVER than now
Hi Andrew, thanks for your works. I have a strong feeling and high hopes that we might see GTA 6 coming to Mac. If Apple aims to venture into gaming, this could be a significant success for them. What are your thoughts on GTA 6 potentially coming to Mac?
I think it's extremely unlikely!
@@Andytizer 😔
@@dangychoice7800 as you can see, thing change and apple dont have the same strategy than 3 or 4 years ago. i have a good feeling that apple will want to have GTA 6 on their new mac
Is it just me, or has Apple restricted or blocked non Developers from downloading the GPTK? I tried, can't get passed the repeated login window after signing in! 🤨
Just seems obvious since the developments with Valve, Proton and Steamdeck - that Apple needs to do exactly the same. Isn't it what they are doing? Except Valve is encouraging devs to optimize their game to work better with Proton and become "Steamdeck Certified" whereas it looks like what Apple is doing is asking devs to make a build. So the Mac store will have macOS executables , which may include Windows games but which have been through a thorough quality check.
Steam Deck is great, but where Valve's "pc gamer" audience is happy to accept games that "work well with some issues" clearlly this isn; t something we expect from Apple so it looks like Apple's way is you'll have only "certified" games and not games that are "playable with some issues".
Either way clearly this is good news for mac gaming. The question that remains is what is their strategy for reaching a price point for AAA gaming where you might consider an iMac over building a PC. (edit: that said I dont think that's what they are goind for - imho Apple is tryng to get more AAA games to change the perception of Macs as gaming capable - while still making most of the profit from iOS games, right? However... if Apple were to build say a powerful AppleTV.. you could have a gaming console right there with more PC style games instead of the drivel that is Apple Arcade)
I bought my M2 MAX at the right time!!!
Is the game at 3:05 real? If so, what’s it called?
ELEX II.
@@Andytizer thank you!
The biggest challenge of a translation layer is the anti-cheat windows software. No windows games with it can run under GPTK now. Apple should pay Activision/Microsoft whatever it takes to get Call of Duty franchise onto Mac natively. That is the main game I and many others play and I bought a windows laptop just to play it. I have a M1 Max Mac Studio which is capable of playing this game and would prefer to play it on my mac. This game is a billion dollar franchise and would be a big selling point for macs if it could run on a mac.
Exactly, im sure Apple would like a bit of of the global gaming revenue. All depends if they need the business of shipping macs for traditional creative industries as well as gaming.
This would be huge i mean they’re willing to get it on switch, and microsoft worked with valve to get halo working so its not out of the question
i hate idea of making new macbooks thick, i bought m1 air only bacause it thin, i cloud by m2 but nooo
They could release an AppleDeck and make big bucks on the hardware, even the M1 is more powerful than the SteamDeck processor
I think even the gpu is more powerful
That would be called the iPad. But Apple would have to open up the platform which won’t happen. Realistically if they made a dedicated “Apple Deck” everything about it would have to be drastically better than a Steam Deck due to Apple inevitably wanting to control the platform which gamers aren’t going to go for unless the product is just that much more superior.
I have to say, for me it was a very bad experience, unfortunately. I have so many issues with CrossOver that I regret spending the money. Sometimes Steam just hangs and I have to restart my mac to get rid of it. Even though my PS5 controller is detected in Steam most games will not work (which is not the case in Steam on my AMD64 Linux machine!). Using my external SSD first worked (mapped it as drive D in wine configuration) - but suddenly it's gone and I cannot make it work again, no matter what. Steam just wont show drive D. In the end, all of this stuff, at least for me, feels very experimental and buggy. If you want to just game - don't use a mac. Because of that I will stick to my PS5 or Linux machine, those two platforms just work. Maybe CrossOver will improve over time. But for now it was a waste of money for me :(
So... what about GPTK 1.1 will now change Mac gaming forever? I am confused!
Apple actively working with CrossOver to create a Windows-Mac gaming translation layer.
Nothing. It’s a clickbait title with no actual information other than jumping to the conclusion that Apple is “working with Codeweavers” just because they got access to GPTK 1.1 before it was made public. This channel is about 3% real info and 97% useless filler.
@@st0rmchild This is actually how I felt - which makes me sad because I enjoy this channel a lot. That's why I am genuinely confused!
@@biboKralle Yeah, I'm here for the occasional nugget of actual new information, but I got tired of trying to find it in 10 minute, watered down videos with intentionally misleading titles. Every week there's some small detail being oversold as something that "changes everything", and it turns out to be another lie.
Andrew needs to decide if he wants to have a respected voice or just do whatever it takes to inflate his subscriber and view counts, and he's heading down the wrong path.
Not exactly topical, but: Im moving all my gaming stuff over to Apple. Im getting sick and tired of Windows and at some point W10 will become obsolete. And W11 is already pretty bad.
Ive also tried Linux over and over again and its just a terrible with everything i do ouside a browser or Steam constantly breaking.
With Cross Over and the appe gaming Wiki guides + the slow but steady improvements and steps that Apple themselves make are enough to convince me that my Gaming future will be better on Mac than Linux or Windows.
If I get w10 vurtualistion to work with Quemu to able to play my online games... its done.
And even if not I am willing to just only buy Games available for mac or that work trough crossover 23 and beyond. Darks Souls 3 works with the gaming toolkit and mist of the rest I play regularly already is availble for mac.
The only downside are Apples ridiculous prices for RAM and Storage. But given how bad i find Linux I think it will be well worth it.
Lokking forward for Mac Mini with M3 People or M4 pro
What do you dislike about windows the most? Just wondering...
Step #1 is to stop polluting the linux-like gatekeeping with emotional arguments without being explicit. If anything, Apple is much, much more of a 'bad guy' than Microsoft. They leech and suck everything they can out of the open source community and not only give nothing in return but actively block it when convenient. Microsoft stopped doing that.
@@5GRobo For gaming and virtualisation Im perfectly fine with Windows 10. And the abilty to upgrade my own devices for cheap (4TB m.2 for less than 250$ or even 8TB Sata SSD for less than 400) compared to apple... pretty good.
Problem is Windows 10 will reach end of life in Oktober 2025 and the Problem is qhat comes next. At best W11, at worst whatever comes after Windows 11.
And W11 is just riddled with AD's and has telemetry built int like crazy. Im sure Apple does do, but I actually like macOS, whereas Windows is just very useful and easy to use.
But when I tried W11 those Apps like OneDrive and Teams just got installed over and over again after deleting them, the ADs to get OneDrive did not stop, changing even the default browser was a hassle. Its just a worse user experience than W10.
Hence my escapades into Linux. But that User experience is even worse. The most popular game there is "getting stuff that worked before and broke to work again".
And so Im left with basically just Apple for a combined good user experience combined with functions Id want. Still not everything and not everything as easy as on Windows, but Id rather spend money on Crossover to have my games work and follow a pretty easy guide from AppleGamingWiki, than figure out all the crap Linux does bad on 100 different distros until I finally find "the one"... and until that one breaks too.
Im assuming you are using Windows. Is it 10 or 11- and if 11: How is it for you? IM sure the functions and look are better (even though I dont like the look), but what about all those little annoyances?
@GamingBits-py1or I haven't used windows as my main machine since XP days. MacOS also has gone down in stability and privacy, but Apple silicon so far has saved it. The future doesn't look very bright, but if things get really bad, maybe something new will pop up.
@@5GRobo I hope so too... but with all its faults Apple is at the top of my list for now.
I also just tested to run a n MMO with anitcheat trough the Apple GAme Portig Toolkit and it actually runs..... which legit is a game changer for games on macOS for me.
If only storage upgrade wouldnt cost so much.
This swift is a mixed package, you sacrifice native ARM64/Metal ports in order to get mac-gaming further...which also means you ship by far worse gpu's compared to the high-end-stuff from nvidia/amd and therefore will have a much worse gaming experience in terms of resolution/fps. But you get games on the mac that is for sure...and mac-gamers will have to buy the pro/max in oder to get half the experience from the windows-gamer with nvida/amd midrange-cards.
it's not supposed to replace native ports, just fill the gap.
@@thebuddercweeperthat and realistically no one purposely buying a machine for gaming is going to buy a Mac solely for gaming. Gaming on Mac will merely be a side benefit.
Apple will never have the price/performance to compete with gaming PCs.
@@johnmoore1495 In the near future, yes. But I wouldn't say never.
@@thebuddercweeper Apple will never move away from being a premium brand. Maybe someday (like 10+ years from now, they have a lot of ground to cover) they’ll offer the best performance but they definitely won’t miss the opportunity to charge you for it.
@@johnmoore1495 Apple silicon Macs offer a different kind of gaming experience, one that has never really existed before. It's not about achieving the absolute best fps, it's about having the ability to play AAA games on a thin and light 13/14" laptop while also having great battery life and great, well, everything else - display, keyboard, trackpad, build quality etc.
I have already replaced a lot of what my gaming PC does with my MacBook, so if the proportion of games released on Mac was closer to Windows, I could definitely see myself replacing both my MacBook and my gaming PC with a future MacBook.
It's not really about "solely for gaming" because that implies you have another computer for non-gaming things, but I definitely think that apple silicon Macs have the potential to replace gaming *and* productivity computers at some point in the future.
The e end game for apple is more sales of Macs . Period
hidpi mechanism of mac os make gaming experience not comfortable
I’d rather spend a couple of grand on a base M3 Pro MacBook Pro and a couple of grand on a gaming rig than blow four grand on a maxed out M3 Max at this point, unless you actually need a maxed out M3 for work it’s a waste. Maybe in a few years Mac’s will be worth it for gaming but right now they’re just not, Apple have a lot of work to do over and above making Mac’s capable of gaming, they’ve spent decades snubbing their noses at gaming and I don’t think developer trust them to follow through.
Once the money starts flowing everything will fall in line.
I'm with you, I have the base M1 Pro for studying/working and I'm building a gaming PC
100% correct on Hardware/Software support & on developer trust on Apple(They even help ported some console/pc games to iPhone like Prince persia, RE4(old) etc then after that silence).
I use mac everyday but for gaming it is not even close to mid/low level PC.
*For $1000 above machines its not worth it right now*
I have a Gaming PC and a Macbook M2 15" Air, the best of both worlds.
If you're good with 18GB, then that makes sense, but if you're upgrading the RAM, at that point you'd really want to consider getting the base Max chip. Apple tax is in the RAM, but the SOC upgrades are priced very fairly compared to the Big 3.
I’ve tried crossover very recently and I was really disappointed, I’ve tried half life 1&2 both are 4 and 5 star rated in their website, and they both have really bad performance, is there a chance that I’m missing something? cause Amid Evil runs great
All I wanna hear is that I can finally play apex legends on my Mac 😩
Or maybe Apple bought Codeweavers 🤔
The only and true move that will "change mac gaming forever" is to enable support for Vulkan.
You are totally right it will easier to port or use proton already all the work on Linux made, apple can be used it it won't waste time and money, Metal should be the mainly for native game on mac ecosystem.
you will never have games on mac when iMac is SO EXPENSIVE,like the recent imac fraud
I really hope StarCitizen devs allow powerful Macs to run the game in the future. Atm the issue is Anti Cheat, not AVX instructions ...
Crazy theory here, but what if apple IS codeweaver, or what if they are planning on buying the company to use their technology? They give them access to their GPTK to see what they can do and if they are able to find a way to make things works, they could simply buy the damn thing completely and offer gaming on their devices. However, I don't think Apple really cares that much about the mac gaming ...on the other hand, the iPads with the M1/M2 chips are more than capable to offer the same gaming experience you could get on a PC ... imagine: Better gaming on iPad compared to PS5/Xbox
Using Crossover, some Windows games run better on an M1 Max 32c GPU 32GB RAM than on Windows 11 10300 CPU AMD RX6600 16GB RAM. Wreckfest @2K Low is ~100fps on the Mac and ~75fps on Windows. Dirt Rally 2.0 is about the opposite, only slightly slower on the Mac, but extremely playable and all graphics issues fixed with D3D now. Still waiting for Mac native Grid Legends (won't run in Crossover), Stray (too slow in Crossover) and Snow Runner.
I would sure hope that a $4000 laptop would be able to beat a $329 graphics card and an Intel i3 quad core lol.
@@johnmoore1495 In my case it is a Mac Studio (baseline $2300). Technically the M1 Max is only 33% faster in graphics over a $210 low end RX6600 when comparing native operations. So there's no brag about cost/performance but perhaps brag about watt/performance. What I'm really giving credit to here is Crossover.
@@MacinMindSoftware I get it. I was just trying to show that saying “premium Mac hardware actually beats budget PC hardware” (paraphrasing) should be the default outcome.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m all for gaming on Mac, more gamers = more better for the gaming industry lol. And it seems almost criminal to have Mac users have powerful hardware that seemingly can only do work oriented tasks. It’ll also make the PC gaming laptop market more competitive which means better options for customers. Nvidia is straight up robbing people for their RTX 4080 and 4090 mobile versions because there’s no competition.
@@johnmoore1495 Oh, I see your point, lol. I'm hoping this large and growing installed base of decent Mac GPUs encourages more. Since my original comment, all of those games I was waiting for got released.
Apple makes no money from a windows game purchase. They will never make this happen.
No but they can sell more hardware if a a mac can do it all...
Valve has an incentive to port some form of proton over to macOS but not Apple. People are just better off accepting this and buying a $400 ps5
Not so. I enjoy playing computer games but not so much that I’d buy a gaming PC. I have an iMac. If a new iMac with M3 + all this clever graphics stuff could run say, Diablo IV, I would consider updating my iMac whereas otherwise I’d just say “D4 doesn’t run on the Mac” and stay with what i have.
They make their money when they take market share from Windows computers.
Was this a nothing video? Did any new software drop in the past few days? Is this a what if video?
GPTK 1.1 released on the CrossOver 23.7 beta, the full release will be sometime next week.
@@Andytizer Thanks for the response.
They should make a translation layer and call it Neutron. LOL. 😂
Honestly I don’t see it happening. I don’t see the incentive for Apple. But who knows, they do like to play a longer game than the average Corpo.
Cheers.
Call it 'Newton' :D.
or...... just give us BootCamp, Apple!
Amen, brother. Parallels is crap.
Thats a windows thing I believe? Windows supports it officially through Parallels -
I cant find sources but believe Bootcamp was because Microsoft decided to support windows on Mac machines (Which wasn't hard) -- but now that they went Apple SIlicone - Apple/Microsoft never reached a deal to make a new version of Bootcamp -- so maybe a little bit of both parties responsible for no bootcamp
@@BlendlogicTech Apple stopped supporting Bootcamp because Microsoft didn't want to sell them the arms license. In short, it's a different Architecture from x86. Most Intel Processors are compatible with x86, which is why Bootcamp runs games and Windows Operating systems a lot better than Parallels. So in the end, it's Microsoft's fault.
@@briansmith2739 maybe we could hope for windows 12 ARM version
Apple only pushing Apple Arcade and inviting game developers to make native support for it … so more and more people buy games on Apple Arcade ..
Some games don't even support Vulkan which is both open source and very cross-platform (except apple bcz apple loves walls) and now apple asks them to implement Metal for a single platform, I doubt they'll ever be successful 😅
Apple has a long history of claiming something their, that they don't really own.
Gaming on Mac has too many limitations imo, best bet for gaming on Mac is GeForce Now. It is an extra expense, but it puts you in position to buy a cheaper machine so you don't have to think, "Should I buy a Max chip if I want to game." When I go back to your "top 7 games on M3 Pro" video, the ones available all run better on GeForce Now than they do on M3 Pro (and likely M3 Max). No Man's Sky, 1440p 120 FPS. BG3, 1440p 120 FPS. Cyberpunk 2077 1440p 100+ FPS. All on Ultra settings.
If you're more of a prosumer and aren't using your machine for cranking out videos for a websites throughout the day, I don't see why you would go with super duper specced out machines. Save the $$$ and play with GeForce Now.
Input latency is much more important than framerates. I rather play at 30 fps at 1280x720 with snappy controls than at 4k, 120 fps with a 150 millisecond delay on EVERYTHING. Almost everybody would.
@@lucyfrye6723 a lot of this comes down to your connection. Most Mac users are probably in locations with better than average internet connections. If you have access to that, the experience on GeForce Now is as good or better than console grade for input latency. I'm alt-tabbing Sea of Stars right now to reply to this. 1440p at 120 FPS, better than console grade playing on my Xbox Controller. I typically see 3-6ms latency to the server and when you factor in frame rates, I'm seeing input latency on par with a Series X or PS5.
If you're playing a game at 720p at 30 FPS, you're already at 120+ ms input latency. The best test of this for me was playing Starfield. Starfield on GeForce Now at 75+ FPS on Ultra at 1440p feels better than 1440p/30 FPS on Series X. It just does and I'd argue the input latency is better on GeForce Now than it is Series X.
Cloud gaming is Impractical for most people, unless you're going to use a wired connection all the time then the wifi connection alone is going to introduce significant latency, even if not so much at base, there are certainly more spikes. And then there's times when you have to use public wifi, or don't have wifi at all, which would make it 10x worse.
I'm sure it's a great experience if you're plugged into the router and happen to live somewhere with a good connection to an NVIDIA data centre, but it's definitely not the "best bet" for most people.
Too little, too late.
6:54 that was fucking fan service or bowing down before the rabble. The MacBooks have gotten fat and ugly with all these legacy ports. I love my 12“ MacBook.
the MacBook Air exists.
You always got my attention with these "MAC GAMING" videos, but they are all pointless and won't worth to watch... I am sorry...
I spent like 6 months gaming on a Mac project, trying all the free or paid options. It was frustrating and total waste of time...
Gaming on a Mac is simply not happening and their machines not even designed/cooled for today's or even the older games.
call of duty ? NO ! battlefield 2042 ? NO ! forza horizon 5 ? NO ! apple for games ? 😂😂😂 LOL !!!!!!!!!! cyberpunk ? 🤮
what did your spacebar do to deserve this
This is so huge I really hope that they make improvements to overwatch running with GPTK! Apple gaming is going to overtake Windows gaming if this keeps up!