Great segment. We feel honored to even be compared to Riva. Weather this is seen as good or bad we're definitely stirring up the aftermarket PWC world.🤙🤙🤙
Again, the central take away is the very different kind of service that JP Racing offers its clients compared to RIVA. You’ve built a tremendous brand and following - be proud!
As being a former service manager and tech at a large pwc dealer, you are doing everything correct. You have a great attitude towards pwcs, you go out of your way to please the customers, your shop is very clean so the customer doesn’t think he’s dropping off his baby to a chop shop. Keep up the good work. There needs to be more shops like yours. These skis are no longer cheap little toys.
@@racerx2084 he is getting all the power train has to give is all. Like I said I have learned a ton from him as he does not hide how he fixes stuff and shares his knowledge. NO one else but the 3ft deep guys do that that I know of.
Finally someone explains it. I've been saying the same thing for awhile. Dash speed is not actual GPS. Thanks alot for breaking it down. Love the channel.
Thanks for actually looking after your subscribers with what you believe to be the TRUTH rather than ad hype. All you said makes sense and is EXACTLY what I surmised, from tunes to the Sea-Doo "dash board" numbers. For example, I had a long straight line race with a "well-modded" (the owner's words) '21 S-D RXPX 300. I won't mention the prominent race shop he mentioned that did the work. Later we talked, and he claimed 83.3 mph on his factory speedo. We'd run dead even all the way up-river on a rare, perfectly smooth surface. No waves, no boats. I was on my '16 Riva Stage 1 Yami FZS. I've V-Boxed my FZS numerous times at 80-81 mph (max) when running up-river. So as far as speeds and speedometer readings go, there you have it as far as I'm concerned.
I've seen a lot of JP's machines at 9000rpm where the limiter is set at 8700 with riva. If you've got the valvetrain and hardware for it why not. I'm sold on JP tunes just waiting for a reply to my email. They must be incredibly busy.
Great video! This summarized why I prefer Riva to others. I like building, maintaining, working etc etc on my own stuff (3 seadoos). You're 100% correct, some of these tunes are "hot" while Riva is a more.... mild? I like this fact, I want to go faster, but I also want my machine to have endurance! I want to go full throttle for longer than 15 sec. Some of these tunes/parts are so hot you better not stay full throttle for to long a period, because you're red lining the hell out of that machine.....something is going to break! I want to go fast for extended periods of time, play and have fun on my ski for long periods without having to tear into my stuff to work on broken parts. Riva and thier performance upgrades was the clear choice for me. So alot of it depends on what you want to do and how you ride!
RIVA is the only tuner what regularly runs these engines on a dyno providing their team with hours of data. Yes, the tunes are more conservative but that’s to ensure greater longevity of the ski itself.
Seadoo Dash GPS reads higher by around 2mph to Garmin dedicated GPS. Run with tide or river flow in both directions with it then against it then your speed WITH SEAT ON in the middle of the highest and lowest readings is the TRUE SPEED.
Aside from anything performance related, I feel like JP has a bit more to lose by putting his work out on UA-cam and such when compared to an already full-fledged business such as Riva. While it is publicity/advertising, it makes it much easier for a disgruntled customer to tarnish business efforts. With that in mind, his products/efforts/services, appear more genuine and personal like you said. What I know for sure, is that you cant and wont, be able to grow a business by ripping people off / not providing what you stated you could. And it certainly looks like his business is growing.
I’m doing jp stage 1 + I’m currently installing the parts and jp is flashing the ecu,I also did the tidal bov,riva free flow exhaust and riva sponsons,also water strainer and manifold gridle..2020 rxpx
At the end of the day, the rider uses the dash to see how fast they're going, they use the same dash to benchmark their performance differences. Regarding the tune, running the engine lean isn't too bad provided the engine isn't knocking and the owner is using good quality high octane fuel. From all his video's I've never seen his tune break a piston, only Valve train damage which is caused by high rpm and not the fuel mixture. Jp Racing and Riva obviously have different philosophy's and both are correct IMO. That's my 2 Cents 😎.
Disagreed. It means he isn't familiar enough with how engines work to adjust the valvetrain according to the tune (ie. valve float). Equally, detonation (pinging) can damage the valve before punching a hole through a piston. His latest aberration of a video is going to cause people thousands of dollars in damage.
@@watercraftjournal I would respectfully disagree. From my what I know in car engines ( my car ) I've had to upgrade the Valve Springs and retainers to accommodate for extra Boost and higher Rpm limiter. I didn't think the Air/Fuel ratio had anything to do with Valve float. Although I could be wrong ofcourse as I'm no expert and willing to learn.
No, your AFR has NOTHING to do with valve float, but knowing the spring rate of your valves prior to spinning an engine beyond their ability to operate is pretty basic know-how.
@@watercraftjournal Yes 100% agreed. But to give JP the benefit of the doubt, I'd assume the failed Valves regarding his own Ski wasn't directly his fault due to venturing in unknown territory.
Unknown territory? RIVA has been advertising the threshold numbers of the factory springs since 2014. And Dean Charrier has been swapping out the retainers before then. This is VERY OLD information. I'm sorry, but no.
Just for fun you guys should get two riders that weight is exactly the same and one on a stage 1 JP racing GP1800R and one on a stage 1 Riva GP1800R with the exact same ski and close on hours and race. That will definetly show a great comparison.
I’d love to see you visit their shop and see what it’s all about. I’m not even from Florida and I follow JP. He’s the young buck along with Greg Gaddis in the game and both are going to shake up the industry in a positive way. Both have great attitudes it seems and aren’t hating. WCJ just lays it out how it is, good or bad.
Always JP Racing. Seen to many people complain about Riva and had Problems with there equipment. P.s on the weight thing??? I only weight 135#s my ski will go 54 mph. When I added different weighted people on back of my ski it went faster. 57-58 mph. I believe there is a perfect weight of a person to maximize performance. With me I feel the intake does not properly fill up cuz I am to light. Crazy Huh?
RIVA has more complaints because they have more customers. And yes, a rider who is too light will not provide the heft necessary to load the pump at an optimal level. An aggressive top loader intake grate will help in this case.
Yep jp does not have Seay and covers on there ski when they run them. These ski hold alot of heat and when the seat is off and the engine panel there is alot less heat in them and they can run better speed. They should install all seat and engine panels and ride the ski how their customers are going to ride it with the seats on and see what speed they are getting . It a different worlds when u have no seat to a seat on the ski to keep heat in it
Riva does not sandbag their speeds. For example riva uploaded a video on UA-cam testing a 2017 gp1800r stage 2 running 86 mph. Now if you go to the riva website and look up that performance kit it’s advertised as an 86mph kit. Not 85 not 84 to compensate for elevation but 86 because that’s what they ran. They do however add a note stating elevation is at sea level, fuel tank level, rider weight and air temp. But they do not sandbag their speed. This is defiantly a bias review.
That's not the case for every kit, Jesse. We've got Dave and Jesus on record saying they often list speeds lower than what they record in testing. And they've been doing this for a long time. And guess what? It's 100% OK because when people don't get exactly what RIVA may report, they go online and cry their heads off and then you get a bunch of people saying "RIVA sucks." This ISN'T a REVIEW nor is it bias. Understand that RIVA spends a lot of money with our magazine and JP doesn't spend a dime. Why would Kevin risk that relationship just to supposedly lie about a shop who doesn't support us?
I’ve been running multiple ski’s with jp’s tunes since 2017. I’ve never had any issues and yes they are definitely faster than riva tunes and a few other companies tunes.
2021 GP SVHO Riva Stage 1+ I'm getting 79 on the dash all day sometimes 80. 760ft elevation in NC. Would the dash error on the low side or is it always optimistic? I'm not needing the extra 2mph from Riva site it's plenty plenty fast for me😬. But the nerd in me is curious. Thx
JP seems like great guy. 1. He uses dash. Period. 2. He removes rear deck and seat. 3. He sits on engine to get out of airflow/drag. 4. He makes most runs literally on empty. Not slinging mud just 100% truth. I watch his videos and like them. Learned a lot from him. I’d never run his tune.
Norman I agree with your comments 100%. JP also try and utilize tide flow and wind assistance . The Garmin GPS may be a new feature as I never saw that in the earlier videos and now I don't watch his channel. Watercraft journal didn't give the complete picture in this instance , but made a good point that they are different types of tuning services. Unless they are more scientifically compared in aside by side with similar bolt ons , only then will the speed and cost comparison be able to be evaluated. Kevin ?
Chris, fair points for sure. The biggest advantage is RIVA"s use of a dyno cell. The data gathering capabilities of RIVA are INCOMPARABLE by others. They specifically use O2 sensors plumbed into each exhaust runner to get precise AFR numbers on each cylinder. And the quantity of maps that RIVA has in its catalog is immense.
Man this is bullshit! Why try to put my guy down!! He rebuilt my super charger on both my skis this dude will show you how to do it yourself and give you a chance to save money! You sound like a hater! We all love riva how could you not!! They are awesome, but so is JP RACING! This dude is honest and fair…this shit hurt when you talk about someone you never meet my guy!! You should delete this video and meet the guy then speak your knowledge!!!
At ZERO point did we call out, attack, name call or put anyone down. We specifically focused on the need for proper engine break-in for the 300 ACE engine, and the consequences for not following the proper heat cycling procedure. And this advice is not "opinion" but fact, conveyed by both the engineers at BRP as well as tuners, builders and aftermarket parts suppliers (many of which are used by the shop in question).
@@watercraftjournal all you did say…was how better riva is. or you think you was being discreet with the hate!? It doesn’t take a rocket science to figure out what you was trying to say when you said it so clearly! You don’t get so many people to come to your shop if you are not doing a awesome job. Why are you trying to compare them in the first place? That’s where the hate come in!
Did we say RIVA? Did we say Dean's Team? How about Ruthless or Greenhulk or anybody else? We did mention speaking with Sea-Doo specifically. Moreover, Kevin literally complimented the video channel and their builds. Did you miss that part? Unlike what is being said, the focus was on the technical aspect of the break-in process, not stirring drama or name-calling.
I've seen the comment about inaccurate seadoo speedos several times on the net now and find it odd. I say this because I own a 21GTR230 with a garmin chart plotter, now I also own a 22 RXTX300 with an even better garmin. Of course I've looked at my phone's "GPS" (which isn't gps at all). All three readouts (when in cell range) and at the very least the actual GPS readouts. And they are always within .4 MPH of one another. Neither of the skis are modded, except for duel batteries etc, but I know the GTR will do 63 everyday, and the RXTX will do 72 everyday. Are these speeds not fast enough for the "wildy inaccurate" speedos to show their ugly head? Is this a thing of the past? Or is this internet BS?
At higher speeds the ability for the factory BRP speedometer to track an accurate reading becomes more and more difficult. At slower speeds, it's far easier but over 72-75mph, you'll see larger gaps in accurate readings.
Great segment. We feel honored to even be compared to Riva. Weather this is seen as good or bad we're definitely stirring up the aftermarket PWC world.🤙🤙🤙
Again, the central take away is the very different kind of service that JP Racing offers its clients compared to RIVA. You’ve built a tremendous brand and following - be proud!
As being a former service manager and tech at a large pwc dealer, you are doing everything correct. You have a great attitude towards pwcs, you go out of your way to please the customers, your shop is very clean so the customer doesn’t think he’s dropping off his baby to a chop shop. Keep up the good work. There needs to be more shops like yours. These skis are no longer cheap little toys.
@@racerx2084 he is getting all the power train has to give is all. Like I said I have learned a ton from him as he does not hide how he fixes stuff and shares his knowledge. NO one else but the 3ft deep guys do that that I know of.
I’ll be looking forward to your response ! 😂
JP Racing offers outstanding service and performance. Always great to see the JP racing Team in action. They know their business.
That’s awesome! They’ve got a very loyal group of customers for a very good reason!
Finally someone explains it. I've been saying the same thing for awhile. Dash speed is not actual GPS. Thanks alot for breaking it down. Love the channel.
Glad to help
Thanks for actually looking after your subscribers with what you believe to be the TRUTH rather than ad hype. All you said makes sense and is EXACTLY what I surmised, from tunes to the Sea-Doo "dash board" numbers. For example, I had a long straight line race with a "well-modded" (the owner's words) '21 S-D RXPX 300. I won't mention the prominent race shop he mentioned that did the work. Later we talked, and he claimed 83.3 mph on his factory speedo. We'd run dead even all the way up-river on a rare, perfectly smooth surface. No waves, no boats. I was on my '16 Riva Stage 1 Yami FZS. I've V-Boxed my FZS numerous times at 80-81 mph (max) when running up-river. So as far as speeds and speedometer readings go, there you have it as far as I'm concerned.
Thank you. We try to be as fair as possible.
I've seen a lot of JP's machines at 9000rpm where the limiter is set at 8700 with riva. If you've got the valvetrain and hardware for it why not. I'm sold on JP tunes just waiting for a reply to my email. They must be incredibly busy.
JP has been actively commenting on this thread - hopefully, he sees your comment.
Great video! This summarized why I prefer Riva to others. I like building, maintaining, working etc etc on my own stuff (3 seadoos). You're 100% correct, some of these tunes are "hot" while Riva is a more.... mild? I like this fact, I want to go faster, but I also want my machine to have endurance! I want to go full throttle for longer than 15 sec. Some of these tunes/parts are so hot you better not stay full throttle for to long a period, because you're red lining the hell out of that machine.....something is going to break! I want to go fast for extended periods of time, play and have fun on my ski for long periods without having to tear into my stuff to work on broken parts. Riva and thier performance upgrades was the clear choice for me. So alot of it depends on what you want to do and how you ride!
RIVA is the only tuner what regularly runs these engines on a dyno providing their team with hours of data. Yes, the tunes are more conservative but that’s to ensure greater longevity of the ski itself.
Seadoo Dash GPS reads higher by around 2mph to Garmin dedicated GPS.
Run with tide or river flow in both directions with it then against it then your speed WITH SEAT ON in the middle of the highest and lowest readings is the TRUE SPEED.
Equally, it's just as important to consider the differences between SUSTAINED top speed and PEAK top speed.
@@watercraftjournal Absolutely agree a high average speed is far more useful than a peak number speed obtained.
Aside from anything performance related, I feel like JP has a bit more to lose by putting his work out on UA-cam and such when compared to an already full-fledged business such as Riva. While it is publicity/advertising, it makes it much easier for a disgruntled customer to tarnish business efforts.
With that in mind, his products/efforts/services, appear more genuine and personal like you said.
What I know for sure, is that you cant and wont, be able to grow a business by ripping people off / not providing what you stated you could.
And it certainly looks like his business is growing.
Competition breeds excellence. We're excited to see the performance aftermarket grow!
I’m doing jp stage 1 + I’m currently installing the parts and jp is flashing the ecu,I also did the tidal bov,riva free flow exhaust and riva sponsons,also water strainer and manifold gridle..2020 rxpx
At the end of the day, the rider uses the dash to see how fast they're going, they use the same dash to benchmark their performance differences.
Regarding the tune, running the engine lean isn't too bad provided the engine isn't knocking and the owner is using good quality high octane fuel. From all his video's I've never seen his tune break a piston, only Valve train damage which is caused by high rpm and not the fuel mixture.
Jp Racing and Riva obviously have different philosophy's and both are correct IMO.
That's my 2 Cents 😎.
Disagreed. It means he isn't familiar enough with how engines work to adjust the valvetrain according to the tune (ie. valve float). Equally, detonation (pinging) can damage the valve before punching a hole through a piston. His latest aberration of a video is going to cause people thousands of dollars in damage.
@@watercraftjournal I would respectfully disagree. From my what I know in car engines ( my car ) I've had to upgrade the Valve Springs and retainers to accommodate for extra Boost and higher Rpm limiter. I didn't think the Air/Fuel ratio had anything to do with Valve float.
Although I could be wrong ofcourse as I'm no expert and willing to learn.
No, your AFR has NOTHING to do with valve float, but knowing the spring rate of your valves prior to spinning an engine beyond their ability to operate is pretty basic know-how.
@@watercraftjournal Yes 100% agreed. But to give JP the benefit of the doubt, I'd assume the failed Valves regarding his own Ski wasn't directly his fault due to venturing in unknown territory.
Unknown territory? RIVA has been advertising the threshold numbers of the factory springs since 2014. And Dean Charrier has been swapping out the retainers before then. This is VERY OLD information. I'm sorry, but no.
Definitely true when you have a set up at sea level and like myself I am 1300 feet above sea level and I weigh 236 pounds.
Yeah, results may vary for sure.
Just for fun you guys should get two riders that weight is exactly the same and one on a stage 1 JP racing GP1800R and one on a stage 1 Riva GP1800R with the exact same ski and close on hours and race. That will definetly show a great comparison.
You cannot replicate reaction times. Heads up racing is always flawed
@@watercraftjournal
Agreed 👍
I went with RIVA and did the whole thing myself. Stege 1 +, delete ribbon and blow off. Can't complain. Thanks for the video.
Outstanding!
You so correct. I do follow JP there very good. But so true about weight it changes speed.
A lot of factors go into chasing top speed. Weight is certainly a big one!
I’d love to see you visit their shop and see what it’s all about. I’m not even from Florida and I follow JP. He’s the young buck along with Greg Gaddis in the game and both are going to shake up the industry in a positive way. Both have great attitudes it seems and aren’t hating. WCJ just lays it out how it is, good or bad.
Appreciated! If JP will have us, we'd happily make the drive down.
I like this guy he gives it to you like it is. I like your work 💪honestly first
We appreciate that!
I agree . Honesty goes a long way.
Always JP Racing. Seen to many people complain about Riva and had Problems with there equipment.
P.s on the weight thing??? I only weight 135#s my ski will go 54 mph. When I added different weighted people on back of my ski it went faster. 57-58 mph. I believe there is a perfect weight of a person to maximize performance. With me I feel the intake does not properly fill up cuz I am to light. Crazy Huh?
RIVA has more complaints because they have more customers. And yes, a rider who is too light will not provide the heft necessary to load the pump at an optimal level. An aggressive top loader intake grate will help in this case.
Yep jp does not have Seay and covers on there ski when they run them. These ski hold alot of heat and when the seat is off and the engine panel there is alot less heat in them and they can run better speed. They should install all seat and engine panels and ride the ski how their customers are going to ride it with the seats on and see what speed they are getting . It a different worlds when u have no seat to a seat on the ski to keep heat in it
Cooler temperatures build speed.
Riva does not sandbag their speeds. For example riva uploaded a video on UA-cam testing a 2017 gp1800r stage 2 running 86 mph. Now if you go to the riva website and look up that performance kit it’s advertised as an 86mph kit. Not 85 not 84 to compensate for elevation but 86 because that’s what they ran. They do however add a note stating elevation is at sea level, fuel tank level, rider weight and air temp. But they do not sandbag their speed. This is defiantly a bias review.
That's not the case for every kit, Jesse. We've got Dave and Jesus on record saying they often list speeds lower than what they record in testing. And they've been doing this for a long time. And guess what? It's 100% OK because when people don't get exactly what RIVA may report, they go online and cry their heads off and then you get a bunch of people saying "RIVA sucks." This ISN'T a REVIEW nor is it bias. Understand that RIVA spends a lot of money with our magazine and JP doesn't spend a dime. Why would Kevin risk that relationship just to supposedly lie about a shop who doesn't support us?
"definite"
Reliability is first imo.
👍
Especially when it comes to performance PWC.
I’ve been running multiple ski’s with jp’s tunes since 2017. I’ve never had any issues and yes they are definitely faster than riva tunes and a few other companies tunes.
@@williamboulton465 🤙🤙🤙 always love the support thanks bud.
@@williamboulton465 I've heard nothing but good things from JP! Seen some of their videos and they are definitely passionate about what they do!
How is Broward’s tune ????
Very good question. To be honest, we haven't heard much about them - at least enough to comment.
We are seeing about 2 mph difference from VBOX to stock dash on 2021 Gp
We've recorded discrepancies a tick over 3mph venturing into the mid-to-high 80's.
2021 GP SVHO Riva Stage 1+ I'm getting 79 on the dash all day sometimes 80. 760ft elevation in NC. Would the dash error on the low side or is it always optimistic? I'm not needing the extra 2mph from Riva site it's plenty plenty fast for me😬. But the nerd in me is curious. Thx
JP seems like great guy.
1. He uses dash. Period.
2. He removes rear deck and seat.
3. He sits on engine to get out of airflow/drag.
4. He makes most runs literally on empty.
Not slinging mud just 100% truth. I watch his videos and like them. Learned a lot from him. I’d never run his tune.
To be fair, JP has been shown using a small GARMIN GPS in his videos.
Norman I agree with your comments 100%.
JP also try and utilize tide flow and wind assistance .
The Garmin GPS may be a new feature as I never saw that in the earlier videos and now I don't watch his channel.
Watercraft journal didn't give the complete picture in this instance , but made a good point that they are different types of tuning services.
Unless they are more scientifically compared in aside by side with similar bolt ons , only then will the speed and cost comparison be able to be evaluated. Kevin ?
Chris, fair points for sure. The biggest advantage is RIVA"s use of a dyno cell. The data gathering capabilities of RIVA are INCOMPARABLE by others. They specifically use O2 sensors plumbed into each exhaust runner to get precise AFR numbers on each cylinder. And the quantity of maps that RIVA has in its catalog is immense.
He’s made plenty of vids where he’s literally half a tank to full.
Man this is bullshit! Why try to put my guy down!! He rebuilt my super charger on both my skis this dude will show you how to do it yourself and give you a chance to save money! You sound like a hater! We all love riva how could you not!! They are awesome, but so is JP RACING! This dude is honest and fair…this shit hurt when you talk about someone you never meet my guy!! You should delete this video and meet the guy then speak your knowledge!!!
At ZERO point did we call out, attack, name call or put anyone down. We specifically focused on the need for proper engine break-in for the 300 ACE engine, and the consequences for not following the proper heat cycling procedure. And this advice is not "opinion" but fact, conveyed by both the engineers at BRP as well as tuners, builders and aftermarket parts suppliers (many of which are used by the shop in question).
@@watercraftjournal all you did say…was how better riva is. or you think you was being discreet with the hate!? It doesn’t take a rocket science to figure out what you was trying to say when you said it so clearly! You don’t get so many people to come to your shop if you are not doing a awesome job. Why are you trying to compare them in the first place? That’s where the hate come in!
Did we say RIVA? Did we say Dean's Team? How about Ruthless or Greenhulk or anybody else? We did mention speaking with Sea-Doo specifically. Moreover, Kevin literally complimented the video channel and their builds. Did you miss that part? Unlike what is being said, the focus was on the technical aspect of the break-in process, not stirring drama or name-calling.
@@watercraftjournal you must be looking at another video buddy the first thing you said was riva vs jp
Yes! You're exactly right. We were referring to the wrong video! Apologies!
I've seen the comment about inaccurate seadoo speedos several times on the net now and find it odd. I say this because I own a 21GTR230 with a garmin chart plotter, now I also own a 22 RXTX300 with an even better garmin. Of course I've looked at my phone's "GPS" (which isn't gps at all). All three readouts (when in cell range) and at the very least the actual GPS readouts. And they are always within .4 MPH of one another. Neither of the skis are modded, except for duel batteries etc, but I know the GTR will do 63 everyday, and the RXTX will do 72 everyday. Are these speeds not fast enough for the "wildy inaccurate" speedos to show their ugly head? Is this a thing of the past? Or is this internet BS?
At higher speeds the ability for the factory BRP speedometer to track an accurate reading becomes more and more difficult. At slower speeds, it's far easier but over 72-75mph, you'll see larger gaps in accurate readings.
@@watercraftjournal Guess I'll have to make my skis faster! LOL