Great instructions and great camera work. I also like you stress on pronation and not wrist snap. Many coaches use the term wrist snap but wrist actually stays neutral.
Hey Meike, this just transformed my serve, thank you. I just played for 2 hours and won every service game after watching and implementing this. That's a rarity for me. 👏
Coach!! It is Hieu and Stefan from Atlanta. So glad to see you. Lia is 10 now and working hard on her tennis game. We also have a son Max who is 8. He is a tennis player too. You are awesome!!
I know which online coach you're talking about and based off his vids I thought that incorrect method was a slice serve. I use it on my 2nd serve sometimes when I'm having an off day. Thank you so much for correcting this for us.
Excellent clarity and helpfulness Ms Babel! Among the best instructional lesson I've ever seen. Also you are witty, a joy to listen to...and also a Babe! (pardon the pun)!
There is a high level coach out there who recognizes that a cue is different and sometimes more important from what actually happens in reality. That's the case in all kinetic movement, including piano and weight lifting.
I am trying to get into tennis @ 40 (I know i am old to start it but it’s never too late learn anything new) and this channel is helping me a lot with basics. Meike’s way of explaining smallest of details- Great for very beginners like me). Not sure if there is a video about how to choose racquet size. I am confused about how do I choose right racquet for me . Thanks.
This is really helpful. I'm trying to rebuild my serve after many years away from the game, and I think the slice is going to be my primary choice for the time being. So much of the language around the serve confuses me (e.g. "hit up and out on the ball" is a common phrase -- if I really hit up and out on the ball, won't I hit it up and out?) -- in some ways I understand it, but not really. You have helped clarify a lot of what's going on. The other thing that confuses me is pronation. I know what it is, but not really how to do it...yet. Your drill in this video without the racquet is going to help me a lot, I think.
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If you are working with low level players, introducing pronation is wrong. To transition towards a real serve, the first thing to learn is to move the racket from the right side of the body (for righties) to the left side of the body. Before mastering a sort of simple Ivan Lendl's serve, focusing on pronation leads low level players to finish the movement at the right side of the body as they focus on opening (turning) the hand. The notion of hitting the right side of the ball is used to introduce the idea of leading with the edge, pass the racket from right to left and avoid over-rotation. Is a step in the process of developing the correct serve motion.
That's why I say and I repeat I'm very sorry for not being in the US to be able to take quality classes, namely with Coach Meike. I love Portugal and Ericeira and I wouldn't change it for anything, but in terms of Tennis, things change; there is a lack of tennis courts and, above all, the lack of quality coaches, who make the difference especially with the speed with which they identify errors and the ability to correct them immediately in a simple way. Excellent video, perfect for me as a 3.5 player, for the simple and clear way it is presented. Questions: - for a flat or slice serve the toss can be done, using the analogy of the clock to 1 PM, but on the kick serve things change don't they? the serve toss will have to be more for the 12 hours and more on the head right, or not Meike ? - Does slice serve only use side spin, or is it better to mix side spin and top spin to bring the ball down a bit ? - When you played, did you make the same launch for the 3 types of service? Thank you
Since coach Meike won't say it, I will...pretty sure the famous coach she's talking about is Moratoglou. It wouldn't be the first time he said something that went against almost every coach out there.
Correct. Completely ignores everything that biomechanics dictates. And actually none of his players do what he tells them to do. If he actually wanted to help one of his players he'd work on Tsitsipas' serve.
@@MeikeBabelTennis I just don't understand how he gets to be in his position. And be the coach of Serena with so many flaws in his concepts. Something doesn't add up.
Also Feisal Hassan does too with a toss on your right side. It comes off like a change up with short bounce and 2nd bounce in alley. I have moved on to more pace, so I am going to try this.
Thank you for this great video. If we think of the ball also in terms of a clock, what part of the clock on the ball am I aiming for when hitting a slice serve? Right in the middle where the hands meet, or between the middle and 3 o’clock on the ball? or, none of the above? Thanks.
I think there are 2 ways to hit a slice, with or without pronation after impact. Without pronation gives the feeling to brush around, even if at contact there's just a slight angle. Pronation gives more power.
I tried the "other" coaches method and it worked immediately. If you want to fix your slice quick, do what he says. Moratoglou was right. This video insinuates that he is giving the finished product. You can then vary and tweak it, but his method gets the ball in immediately and you will always have a safe serve for matches. You can struggle with this or you can go play confident tennis immediately.
That high level coach is Patrick M, I definitely don't agree with his peeling the outside of the ball theory, but your instruction is definitely correct!! 👌 👍
Great points! You speak about leading with the edge of the racquet/hand. I find that when I "cock: my hand - supinate to the end of travel of the hand - it also rotates the elbow forward and gives significantly more power to a flat serve. However, it also makes a slice or kick much more difficult. Can you speak to this.
if you are refering to Patrick I always tell my students that he is the wore coach to listen to online. he does not seem to understand how anything works and just made a name by hitting the lotto and working with a super talented player
In general anatomical terms, it is possible to rotate the forearm (pronate) with little to no internal shoulder rotation (ISR). This is shown in the progression drill 05:13. By contrast, if you internally rotate the shoulder, forearm pronation will automatically happen. Internal shoulder rotation and pronation are closely associated. Now, how to best apply this in the context of a tennis serve? (a) Think of internally rotating the shoulder (ISR) into contact and trust that the forearm pronation will occur. OR (b) Think of forearm pronation, *slightly leading* the internal shoulder rotation, with the ISR happening a split second later. Am experimentinig with both approaches. Both approaches might be valid. The bottom line is to employ proper internal shoulder rotation, Once players learn the Continental grip, I believe the most common rec player error, by far, is *insufficient internal rotation* and relying on just forearm pronation. This will also stress the arm. The palm on the finish will finish facing more downwards. With proper ISR, the palm will finish facing towards the right side fence! Once the player utilizes the stronger muscles involved with ISR, there will be a huge improvement.
So, with the 12 o'clock and 1 o'clock directions for the toss... 12 o'clock is straight towards the net, right? Is this the same on the ad court? When I started practising my serve based on UA-cam videos, I noticed that I can only hit the ball on the ad court if I toss it significantly further right. Am I compensating for bad technique here, or is this something that seemingly every video misses? For now, I'm still working on my flat serve, but I might try these drills (without the slice-specific ones, for now). I can get it in fairly consistently if I use no power, but if I do the full motion, it tends to go long. Haven't quite worked out what I am doing wrong, and unfortunately my coach is indisposed "until further notice" for as-yet unknown reasons... Oh, I also noticed that I tend to change grip to a frying-pan one mid-swing... That was interesting to discover. Here I thought I was using a continental grip, but I cheated myself.
Why do some coaches talks about ending the slice serve with a “scoop” with the palm facing up. If you pronate you can’t do this. Correct? Please tell me about this “scoop” theory. It’s confusing. Thanks Meike!
For slice serve, if we keep pronation same as flat serve and instead change the grip little bit (more continental) kind of. Will that work? I am not sure if I am able to explain properly my point here. I am a beginner
Great lesson! 🎾⭐ With regard to racquet face at contact. I believe everyone would agree that the ball always goes exactly where the strings are pointing at contact. So let's examine a *flat* serve wide to the Deuce and a *slice* serve wide to the Deuce. In both cases, I believe the strings are pointing in the exact same direction at contact , not "4-6 degrees off, with right edge leading for slice" as mentioned at 04:25 . Think of it this way: *To direct the ball wide to the Deuce, whether it be slice wide to the Deuce or flat wide to the Deuce, you must always contact the right side of the ball* . And for both cases, the right edge will be leading at contact, as that is the only way to direct either a flat serve wide to the Deuce or a slice wide to the Deuce . In other words, if you took a pic at the moment of contact, the racquet face position will be identical at contact for both serves, The only difference is that on the flat serve, the swing path *after* contact goes through the ball more and towards the net (i.e. the full pronation is completed earlier compared to the slice, whereas the swing path after contact goes offline and more towards the right net post (the full pronation is very slightly delayed and completed slightly later). Here is a super slow mo of Nadal slice. He is a lefty and he is slicing down the Deuce T, so adjust comments about swing path accordingly. Or view the video with Nadal as a righty by clicking the mirror link. ua-cam.com/video/ijLU5PB44tc/v-deo.html mirrorthevideo.com/watch?v=ijLU5PB44tc
"the ball always goes exactly where the strings are pointing at contact".. no . it' doesn't.. if it was true.. your topspin forehands/backhands would always landed on your side of the court.. (or into the net) because you hit them with closed racket face.. and what would you tell if you see a slice flying from high to low.. according to your theory such stroke shouldn't exist... but it does :)
I stopped reading at the point where you said a wide flat serve and a slice serve head in the exact same direction. This is patently nonsense as the slice spins away toward the sideline in the air.
A slice serve can sharply curve in the air. It is true. But the flight paths of the flat and slice do not necessarily have to be radically different. I will sometimes hit a flat serve to the Deuce corner which bounces basically straight ahead. And I will hit a slice serve to the Deuce corner that bounces wide and pulls the returner off the court. Both serves are crossing the net at the same point. Both serves seem to have the same ~1 foot of net clearance. Both serves are about 65- 70 mph. The flight path of the two serves are very similar.The differences in *flight paths* are very subtle . The main difference occurs AFTER the bounce. Those are my direct observations on my flat and slice serves. This is also clearly evident on Federer's 110 mph slice serve aces to the Deuce. Good luck finding a sharp curve in the air on that relative to his flat serve. The main difference occurs AFTER the bounce.
I remember when I first started tennis back when I was little, my coach would always tell me to hold my racquet like a hammer when serving, and I'm glad he did because anything else would've probably just confused me, lol.
I've tried pronation to slice and also the "carve" and I've had better success visualizing the "carve" because it seems more intuitive to me. My slice is pretty shallow on the single's sideline which is a virtual ace even when the returner knows it's coming.
We all know who you are talking about when you high level coach - Moratoglu. This guy is 90% marketing and only 10% tennis skills. He is speating out so much garbage in his lessons it's just unbelivable.
Great instructions and great camera work. I also like you stress on pronation and not wrist snap. Many coaches use the term wrist snap but wrist actually stays neutral.
Thank you!
Hey Meike, this just transformed my serve, thank you. I just played for 2 hours and won every service game after watching and implementing this. That's a rarity for me.
👏
Oh wow! That is really great to hear!
Coach!! It is Hieu and Stefan from Atlanta. So glad to see you. Lia is 10 now and working hard on her tennis game. We also have a son Max who is 8. He is a tennis player too. You are awesome!!
I know which online coach you're talking about and based off his vids I thought that incorrect method was a slice serve. I use it on my 2nd serve sometimes when I'm having an off day. Thank you so much for correcting this for us.
Brilliant Coach Meike 🙏 appreciate I'm watching this several times to make sure I don't miss anything! Thanks so much 👍
Thank you!
Excellent clarity and helpfulness Ms Babel! Among the best instructional lesson I've ever seen. Also you are witty, a joy to listen to...and also a Babe! (pardon the pun)!
Holy cow! Best slice video I've seen. I'm a visual person so this was terrific !!!!!!!!
Unexaggratingly the best best serve video online
I'm one of those who was confused by that "high level coach". This helped a lot. Thank you.
This is the best slice serve vidoe i have seen, thanks 😊
very good lesson, thank you so much, I appreciate that you emphasize how the contact point is only slightly changing from flat to slice
There is a high level coach out there who recognizes that a cue is different and sometimes more important from what actually happens in reality. That's the case in all kinetic movement, including piano and weight lifting.
I am trying to get into tennis @ 40 (I know i am old to start it but it’s never too late learn anything new) and this channel is helping me a lot with basics. Meike’s way of explaining smallest of details- Great for very beginners like me). Not sure if there is a video about how to choose racquet size. I am confused about how do I choose right racquet for me . Thanks.
This is really helpful. I'm trying to rebuild my serve after many years away from the game, and I think the slice is going to be my primary choice for the time being. So much of the language around the serve confuses me (e.g. "hit up and out on the ball" is a common phrase -- if I really hit up and out on the ball, won't I hit it up and out?) -- in some ways I understand it, but not really. You have helped clarify a lot of what's going on. The other thing that confuses me is pronation. I know what it is, but not really how to do it...yet. Your drill in this video without the racquet is going to help me a lot, I think.
This is EXACTLY what I try to get across to my students. WORD FOR WORD!
JOIN MY PATREON for MORE and EXCLUSIVE content, monthly live coaching call, voting power on what content I create AND MORE!!
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Endlich hat es mal wer gescheit erklärt !! Danke
Dankeschoen!
Thank you coach, by far the best video on slice serve.
It is very nice seeing a great female coach giving some amazing tips.👍🏼
You're my new favourite online coach
If you are working with low level players, introducing pronation is wrong. To transition towards a real serve, the first thing to learn is to move the racket from the right side of the body (for righties) to the left side of the body. Before mastering a sort of simple Ivan Lendl's serve, focusing on pronation leads low level players to finish the movement at the right side of the body as they focus on opening (turning) the hand. The notion of hitting the right side of the ball is used to introduce the idea of leading with the edge, pass the racket from right to left and avoid over-rotation. Is a step in the process of developing the correct serve motion.
You have a great passion for tennis and you are motivating !❤
Thank you for teaching the mechanics of slice serve
Boy oh boy, the same motion when you played on the tour!
Yup, pretty much
That's why I say and I repeat I'm very sorry for not being in the US to be able to take quality classes, namely with Coach Meike.
I love Portugal and Ericeira and I wouldn't change it for anything, but in terms of Tennis, things change; there is a lack of tennis courts and, above all, the lack of quality coaches, who make the difference especially with the speed with which they identify errors and the ability to correct them immediately in a simple way.
Excellent video, perfect for me as a 3.5 player, for the simple and clear way it is presented.
Questions:
- for a flat or slice serve the toss can be done, using the analogy of the clock to 1 PM, but on the kick serve things change don't they? the serve toss will have to be more for the 12 hours and more on the head right, or not Meike ?
- Does slice serve only use side spin, or is it better to mix side spin and top spin to bring the ball down a bit ?
- When you played, did you make the same launch for the 3 types of service?
Thank you
The coach she is talking about giving Wrong advice in UA-cam video is Patrick Mouratoglou
Nice one! Very understandable and straight to the point for beginner / lower intermediate players. Danke!
Since coach Meike won't say it, I will...pretty sure the famous coach she's talking about is Moratoglou. It wouldn't be the first time he said something that went against almost every coach out there.
Correct. Completely ignores everything that biomechanics dictates. And actually none of his players do what he tells them to do. If he actually wanted to help one of his players he'd work on Tsitsipas' serve.
@@MeikeBabelTennis I just don't understand how he gets to be in his position. And be the coach of Serena with so many flaws in his concepts. Something doesn't add up.
@@MeikeBabelTennisand tell him to leave his mum and dad at home.
Also Feisal Hassan does too with a toss on your right side. It comes off like a change up with short bounce and 2nd bounce in alley. I have moved on to more pace, so I am going to try this.
Ughh, a famous coach who helped his players win multiple slams and tournaments? I’ll stick with him or her..😂
Thank you for this great video. If we think of the ball also in terms of a clock, what part of the clock on the ball am I aiming for when hitting a slice serve? Right in the middle where the hands meet, or between the middle and 3 o’clock on the ball? or, none of the above? Thanks.
I think there are 2 ways to hit a slice, with or without pronation after impact. Without pronation gives the feeling to brush around, even if at contact there's just a slight angle. Pronation gives more power.
Best instruction ever, super thanks!!!!
Wow, she’s really good at teaching
Thank yoU!
Very clear explanation. Thank you
Madam, Flat and quick serve are the same pronation? VERY interesting video for me. Thank you a lot.
Perfectly explained for a club player, thx
I tried the "other" coaches method and it worked immediately. If you want to fix your slice quick, do what he says. Moratoglou was right. This video insinuates that he is giving the finished product. You can then vary and tweak it, but his method gets the ball in immediately and you will always have a safe serve for matches. You can struggle with this or you can go play confident tennis immediately.
That high level coach is Patrick M, I definitely don't agree with his peeling the outside of the ball theory, but your instruction is definitely correct!! 👌 👍
Very detailed tips. Thank u!
Great points! You speak about leading with the edge of the racquet/hand. I find that when I "cock: my hand - supinate to the end of travel of the hand - it also rotates the elbow forward and gives significantly more power to a flat serve. However, it also makes a slice or kick much more difficult. Can you speak to this.
I love my slice serve!!! I have done it on ad side at one of the last point in the game.
The slice turned into a body shot and aced it😁😁😁
BOOM!
Thanks, coach!
if you are refering to Patrick I always tell my students that he is the wore coach to listen to online. he does not seem to understand how anything works and just made a name by hitting the lotto and working with a super talented player
Exactly!
You are changing the yonex rackets faster than my serve is.
your a great coach
In general anatomical terms, it is possible to rotate the forearm (pronate) with little to no internal shoulder rotation (ISR).
This is shown in the progression drill 05:13.
By contrast, if you internally rotate the shoulder, forearm pronation will automatically happen. Internal shoulder rotation and pronation are closely associated.
Now, how to best apply this in the context of a tennis serve?
(a) Think of internally rotating the shoulder (ISR) into contact and trust that the forearm pronation will occur.
OR
(b) Think of forearm pronation, *slightly leading* the internal shoulder rotation, with the ISR happening a split second later.
Am experimentinig with both approaches. Both approaches might be valid. The bottom line is to employ proper internal shoulder rotation,
Once players learn the Continental grip, I believe the most common rec player error, by far, is *insufficient internal rotation* and relying on just forearm pronation. This will also stress the arm. The palm on the finish will finish facing more downwards. With proper ISR, the palm will finish facing towards the right side fence!
Once the player utilizes the stronger muscles involved with ISR, there will be a huge improvement.
Great vide Meike!
Grip? Grab it like a hammer. That is what my instructor suggested in college. Use it at the net also.
Thank you
You're welcome
So, with the 12 o'clock and 1 o'clock directions for the toss... 12 o'clock is straight towards the net, right? Is this the same on the ad court?
When I started practising my serve based on UA-cam videos, I noticed that I can only hit the ball on the ad court if I toss it significantly further right.
Am I compensating for bad technique here, or is this something that seemingly every video misses?
For now, I'm still working on my flat serve, but I might try these drills (without the slice-specific ones, for now). I can get it in fairly consistently if I use no power, but if I do the full motion, it tends to go long. Haven't quite worked out what I am doing wrong, and unfortunately my coach is indisposed "until further notice" for as-yet unknown reasons...
Oh, I also noticed that I tend to change grip to a frying-pan one mid-swing... That was interesting to discover. Here I thought I was using a continental grip, but I cheated myself.
Why do some coaches talks about ending the slice serve with a “scoop” with the palm facing up. If you pronate you can’t do this. Correct? Please tell me about this “scoop” theory. It’s confusing. Thanks Meike!
For slice serve, if we keep pronation same as flat serve and instead change the grip little bit (more continental) kind of. Will that work? I am not sure if I am able to explain properly my point here. I am a beginner
I can't buy the book on your website, the link to buy won't work.
Impossible to buy the fuzzy yellow balls book. When we try to create an account to checkout, we are redirected to buy the checkout solution. 🤦🏻♂️
Great lesson! 🎾⭐
With regard to racquet face at contact. I believe everyone would agree that the ball always goes exactly where the strings are pointing at contact. So let's examine a *flat* serve wide to the Deuce and a *slice* serve wide to the Deuce.
In both cases, I believe the strings are pointing in the exact same direction at contact , not "4-6 degrees off, with right edge leading for slice" as mentioned at 04:25 .
Think of it this way: *To direct the ball wide to the Deuce, whether it be slice wide to the Deuce or flat wide to the Deuce, you must always contact the right side of the ball* . And for both cases, the right edge will be leading at contact, as that is the only way to direct either a flat serve wide to the Deuce or a slice wide to the Deuce . In other words, if you took a pic at the moment of contact, the racquet face position will be identical at contact for both serves,
The only difference is that on the flat serve, the swing path *after* contact goes through the ball more and towards the net (i.e. the full pronation is completed earlier compared to the slice, whereas the swing path after contact goes offline and more towards the right net post (the full pronation is very slightly delayed and completed slightly later).
Here is a super slow mo of Nadal slice. He is a lefty and he is slicing down the Deuce T, so adjust comments about swing path accordingly. Or view the video with Nadal as a righty by clicking the mirror link.
ua-cam.com/video/ijLU5PB44tc/v-deo.html
mirrorthevideo.com/watch?v=ijLU5PB44tc
"the ball always goes exactly where the strings are pointing at contact".. no . it' doesn't.. if it was true.. your topspin forehands/backhands would always landed on your side of the court.. (or into the net) because you hit them with closed racket face.. and what would you tell if you see a slice flying from high to low.. according to your theory such stroke shouldn't exist... but it does :)
I stopped reading at the point where you said a wide flat serve and a slice serve head in the exact same direction. This is patently nonsense as the slice spins away toward the sideline in the air.
A slice serve can sharply curve in the air. It is true. But the flight paths of the flat and slice do not necessarily have to be radically different.
I will sometimes hit a flat serve to the Deuce corner which bounces basically straight ahead. And I will hit a slice serve to the Deuce corner that bounces wide and pulls the returner off the court.
Both serves are crossing the net at the same point. Both serves seem to have the same ~1 foot of net clearance. Both serves are about 65- 70 mph. The flight path of the two serves are very similar.The differences in *flight paths* are very subtle . The main difference occurs AFTER the bounce.
Those are my direct observations on my flat and slice serves.
This is also clearly evident on Federer's
110 mph slice serve aces to the Deuce. Good luck finding a sharp curve in the air on that relative to his flat serve. The main difference occurs AFTER the bounce.
The easiest explanation how to find the continental grip was "Hold it like a hammer"
I remember when I first started tennis back when I was little, my coach would always tell me to hold my racquet like a hammer when serving, and I'm glad he did because anything else would've probably just confused me, lol.
😂
The ball goes in the direction the strings are pointing. Stance, grip and racket head path
That is a new Vcore 98 or 100?
It's the 98. Love it!
Would you recommend the 100L one for a 4.0 player? I’m using the Pure Aero 100 team now
Patrick...
yup
I don't like him, Rune should find a better trainer imo
I've tried pronation to slice and also the "carve" and I've had better success visualizing the "carve" because it seems more intuitive to me. My slice is pretty shallow on the single's sideline which is a virtual ace even when the returner knows it's coming.
@@HonkyMonkyluckily he doesn't have to teach Rune technique. He might be good at coaching ;)
good video and you can say it " marotouglou " :):):)
Super
I came here just to tell you that your racquet reminds me of those marching hammers from Pink Floyd.
famous coach = patrick mouratoglou
Coach Michael ? Gool looking dude…
V-CORE??!! What the what ??!!??
Yes, it's the new Vcore 98 :-)
👍💪🔥
like
Patrick M is the master of teaching peeling around the ball technique Definitely do not agree with Patrick M!
Agree, all biomechanics disagree as well
We all know who you are talking about when you high level coach - Moratoglu. This guy is 90% marketing and only 10% tennis skills. He is speating out so much garbage in his lessons it's just unbelivable.
Yup
how can muratoglu be so acknowledged if he is telling such nonsense theories.. ???