Hey bro you know that part where you're talking about Mesmer and he's not the greatest child or whatever I actually think that's him talking to us the tarnished???
Messmer is based on the summerian god, Ningishzida, which translates to "lord of the good tree". Messmer "planted" the Erdtree by piling up corpses. That first scene shows Marika entering the Erdtree, which we know has a gold lining around it. The Erdtree roots are always surrounded by corpses. Marika surrounded the Erdtree in gold to veil the fact that it is made entirely of CORPSES. That is the shadow of the Erdtree.
I’m convinced this trailer depicts Marika’s rise to power and the creation of the Erdtree. Messmer conducted her holy war to eliminate the undesirables and those without grace to feed the growth of the Erdtree with their souls. Messmer is continuing to kill on her behalf to keep the Erdtree going. Miquella is disgusted by his heritage and has entered the Erdtree in a non physical form to guide those to rise up against this. Mohg is working with Miquella to protect his physical form until he returns. Makes sense that Miquella guides tarnished in the lands between (as Melina) to take grace to become powerful enough to end this cycle and in the DLC for us once we get there.(as per translated info) Our goal is to take down Messmer so that when we burn the Erdtree at the end it becomes more permanent. You need to take out the roots to really kill a plant.
I agree with most of this. I do think Mogh is taking advantage of the situation and trying to commune with Miquella and make him Lord of the Formless mother's age with Mogh as consort. Meanwhile, Miquella entered the Haligtree's core to do what he's doing here for the sake of Malenia and the rest of those negatively impacted by the Golden Order and his mother's legacy.
I think its impossible that Mogh is working with Miquella, he kidnapped his physical body to use his powers as an empyrian to form a new dinasty based on a new God (formeless mother), i would say Mogh could be one of the reasons miquella hasn’t succeced. Regarding the rest makes sense that it would be more secure to " take out the roots to really kill a plant". Great analysis!
I'm fairly certain that this is supposed to be reminicent of our holy wars and Christianity. We see the search for unalloyed gold. People who speak/are against this religion/goldtree are persecuted, and the authorities have to delude themselves into believing it. Marika was seduced by the serpent and bit the apple, giving birth to messmer, and miquella is here to cleanse it(jesus).
The wall of bodies or doorway or whatever reminds me so much of the blasphemous blade covered in bodies. Or even phase two of fighting Rykard where the snake is all split open with bodies popping out of it. Might also be the crucible? That's kind of why the omens and misbegotten are hated is because they're remnants of the crucible. Any way it goes I'm so excited for it!
One thing is certain after this trailer, all piromancers will struggle on the dlc fighting mesmer army fire resistance... and the glimpse on all 7 new npc's there at the end looked really cool.
I'm holding out hope that those aren't NPCs, it's a foreshadowing of Seamless Coop-type integration. It's an insanely popular mood with millions of downloads, very few files, and very easy installation. Given the demand, he might just give the people what they want. Hopefully. 😢
3:50 I think what she pulls out is the essence of Greater Will (godhead in Abrahamic religions) that came as a star and later forged into the Elden Ring. The description of Elden Star reads: “It is said that long ago, the Greater Will sent a golden star bearing a beast into the Lands Between, which would later become the Elden Ring.” This happened before Golden Order was founded. During the age of crucible, and the DLC land of shadow where crucible era culture originates, this essence of Greater Will was used as the heat source of the crucible, metaphorical speaking, and the crucible was the old Golden Tree. Side note I also think this is the moment Radagon was actually born. I always thought Radagon as Elden Beast’s influence of Marika (recall final boss scene). This explains why Marika’s figure was feminine when walking up the stair of corpses but became masculine when holding up the essence of Greater Will.
That song when Mesmer is hanging off his spear looking at his victims is probably going to be my new favorite ost. It’s almost guaranteed to be mesmers boss music and I can’t wait to hear the rest of it for his phase transition
6:50 I don’t think Mesmer’s father is Godfrey. The keyword is “affair”which hints that Marika was with someone else at the time and the only person fit this criteria is Godfrey. Recall Godfrey led crucible knight in an age where crucible is still considered as divine. So Godfrey must met Marika before the Mesmer’s purge took place bc that’s the turning point for crucible to become shunned. Mesmer is probably the child between Marika and someone we haven’t met yet - the impaled “monk” and the one depicted in the painting. Speaking of that someone who we haven’t met, I think he’s also the father of Mohg and Morgott (twins) as well and lore saying they’re children of Godfrey is a mislead because there was a need to conceal twin’s true father because not only all of their names starts with “M” (established pattern as Radagon/Marika and Rennala’s children all starts with “R”) but also Mohg and Morgott are Omens, which is said from crucible culture and the land of shadow is where crucible culture originated. So the timeline be like 1. Marika and Godfrey come together and have Godfrey (first born and name starts with “G”) 2. Marika have an “affair” with someone who starts with “M” and gives birth to Mesmer (sry Godfrey my man) 3. Marika bear twins Morgott and Mohg of the same “M” person 4. Something happens (related to Godskin & GEQ) and Marika becomes a god and leaves the Land of Shadow (trailer) while still being pregnant 5. Mesmer led purge happens in the Land of Shadow 6. Marika gives birth to Morgott and Mohg in the Land Between but conceals father’s true identity bc they just had a war and purge This feels like something GRRM would write 😒
@@felipefortaleza8280 I know but what if Godfrey didn’t know? Recall that Marika casted away Godfrey after all her enemies fell - it feels like Marika was using and actually hated Godfrey the entire time. Also the Night of the Black Knives have strong hinting that Marika was involved… Godwyn was the perfect demigod they could hoped for, but it makes sense if Marika actually hated Godfrey.
In my interpretation, Marika was seduced by the greater will, being induced to betray the current order to begin her golden lineage. Something like "Conspire with me to bring my influence upon this world, and you will be rewarded with power as you represent me", the first scene of the trailer illustrated something of this act. Maybe it's a vibe, "the serpent tempted Eve, she commits a sin and changes the course of everything" The "current order" would be "...the crucible of primordial life", an amalgamation "where all life was once blended together", the source of life, of power, would be the primordial divine of that world. Even gold is related, as said in Ordovis's Greatsword "imbued with an ancient HOLY ESSENCE. Its red tint exemplifies the nature of PRIMORDIAL GOLD..." I believe that in a way the Crucible was the authority of the ancient world, which must have his own order, ruled by beasts, Omens, priests, a world where he was the divine. In fact, aspects of the crucible, such as feathers and horns, "...was considered a signifier of the divine in ancient times, but is now increasingly disdained as an impurity as civilization has advanced". All this sacred and political power was usurped and resliced. The greater will is the new authority, the Elden Ring imposes a new Order, Marika is a goddess, and Erdtree was born feeding directly from the crucible. No wonder Aspects of the Crucible are considered "...ancient Erdtree incantations", and described as "...a manifestation of the Erdtree's primal vital energies - an Aspects of the primordial crucible". It's almost an overthrow on a cosmic level, with entities instead of kings, G.R.R.Martin with a pinch of Lovecraft I think something very important in this whole plot happened in the shadowland, and that's why it was hidden, this past was erased from history and the new era begins outside of there, in the Lands Between. Everything that refers to this ancient power is hidden, persecuted, killed or usurped because there is something hidden there. And when Mikela looks into the past and finds this stain, he/she discovers something important to be resolved, something more relevant than the flesh, the power or the destiny of becoming a god, so all of this is abandoned in favor of a new mission. And we are part of it.
I’d surmise from this video and other bits of previously disclosed lore; when Marika takes the golden strands, and we see her holding them up, that this is the moment she effectively created the Golden Order and separated what is now the Realm of Shadow from the Lands Between. I think this betrayal led to Marika becoming an Empyrean, and started this ‘unseen war’ which occurs after the Shadow realm comes to be, such that Mesmer’s victory and slaughtering of Marika’s foes is unknown to everyone else in the Lands Between. I guess we’ll have our answers in scarcely a month’s time 👍
The death rune and gloam eyed queen would have to play into whatever we see here in that case, as there are multiple references to the golden order being created when the rune of death was sealed away
I really get the vibe that Mesmer is related to dragon communion somehow, just from his looks. Also the start of his flame spell in the trailer really looks like he's using the Dragon Communion Seal (pause at 6:03 in this video). Dragon communion is also considered blasphemy by the Golden Order, which would make me believe that he is at odds with Marika (or maybe was using it to help do her bidding, then she shunned him like she did the tarnished after they outlived their usefulness). Maybe he's also related to Rykard in some way somehow with all the serpent imagery as well.
I believe Marika pulled out Miquella's Needle and that Marika is also holding onto the Threads of the Golden Order threading the Lands Between to the Lands of Shadow. Marika is either trying to literally close the barrier off(sewing it close) or more likely than not is trying to sow the Golden Order into the Lands of Shadow, because with the description of Miquella's Needle being used to stop the Frenzied Flame it could possibly also be used to stop the Flames from the Land of Shadow. Could be connected to why Mohg's Palace is enflamed etc.
I had this feeling for a while but I think Godwynn the Golden and Messmer are twins. Think about it, of the other children we know about, Merika had them as twins. Mogh with Margit and Malenia and Miquella. Godwynn is the one breaking the pattern. Since were talking craziness, I think Messmer sent the black knives to kill his mothers golden child. Working with Rycard and Ranni in the lands between.
@@tristanward9937messmer appears to be the very first of Marika’s children and Godwin was way after those events when Godfrey was Elden lord. The only possible twin would have been Melina as she said “I was born at the foot of the erdtree”
If that theory is correct, that would ultimately mean that Godwyn the Golden and Mezmer were twins. One of gold(light), one of shadow, different in body alone. Which would explain why the black knives were instructed to kill Godwyn's soul and leave his body to maintain the veil that seperates the Lands Between(Lands of Godwyn), and the lands of Shadow(of Mezmer).
I don't think anyone is talking about this enough, but the gods of elden ring are all based on the real life norse gods. Marika is a hidden entity, who hangs herself from the foot of the erd tree and created the golden order. Like how Odin hung himself from Yidrasil. Radagon is like thor, weilds a hammer, with half giant heritage while also hating the giants, with red hair and throwing lightning bolts. I am predicting, that for the elden ring dlc this trend will continue to follow. I think Mesmer is like Hela (Hel). A cruel, malevolent and greedy god obsessed with killing for the sake of Odin, who was once employed by Odin to kill the opposition to the norse gods, until she was banished to Hel. I think that mesmer was the enforcement arm of the golden order, instructed to kill and maim for the sake of the golden lineage and conquer the lands between, up until queen Marika no longer needed her warriors. Just like horah louh. But unlike Godfrey, Mesmer didn't put down the sword. Instead he continued to wage wars and eventually grew to hate Queen Marika, which is why he is veiled in shadow. He needs to be kept away from the rest of the golden lineage. He is now waging a war against the erd tree. I also think that's why there is ash around the capital, because at one point Mesmer burned the erd tree. I also think that Miquella is Loki. A manipulative trickster God upsessed with killing an unkillable God, his brother Baldur, who would be Godwyn in this example. Unable to die, but totally emotionless. And if my prediction are right, and all the gods of the game are based upon their real life counter parts, then we can make big predictions. Mesmer will reveal that his mother instructed him to kill all the people of the lands between, and he is the reason why scholars that see fire in their visions are banished. Miquella will be neither a good guy or a bad guy, he will 100% be manipulative to the tarnished. Godwyn will be killed in full, and this will start a chatoclism to ragnararak. The death of all the demi gods in the lands between. St. Trina is Dis
the godwyn baldur comparison is funny since his first ‘death’ helped put the shattering into motion like how baldur’s death was one of the events that put ragnarok into motion
@@allimJ screen shot this too. Ranni also has traits of Loki, the lying, the shapshifting she does (moving her soul into the doll) and her complete rejection of the golden order. Just like how loki rejects the Aesir gods in favor of the Jhotenar. Just like how Ranni sided with the Carians, who, according to the essence of the sword of night and flame, also aligned themselves with the giants for a period. And Melania is straight up called a Valkyrie. Cause there are no gods of disease in Norse mythology, she doesn't follow traditional mythology. She's the only demi god who weilds a weapon that the Norse didn't use, a Katana
We see Godfrey all grey at the time we meet him, maybe they’ll reveal him as being red haired too, saying he’s Mesmers dad. Or Mesmer could be Godwyns other half. But I think he’s going to be a brother of Radagon and Marika, like Maliketh.
The time frame has me the most curios! It’s clear enough what the first half of the trailer is saying but I’m still very confused to if Miquella has ulterior motives or really is a good hearted Demi god who is against what all Marika did to birth her godhood! Either way this expansion is going to be incredible & decent in size!
He's definitely a good guy who found out about Marika's heinous acts to rise to godhood and went against it. That's why Miquella stripped himself of his destiny, he was disgusted by it. He and Ranni most likely created this plan so that they defeat Marika and put an end to it all. I also think St. Trina WAS supposed to be what radagon is to Marika. Orrr perhaps, what Marika is to radagon. We know that Marika is evil but who's to say Radagon isn't her base form and not Marika? It's clearly radagon who's opening up the rift, that's why he's shirtless with no side boob in sight.
@@eyesofthebeast Cool insight! I’ll be honest I’m not the most lore intelligent fan but I consider myself averagely knowledgeable only because I love taking my time and reading/listening to all bits of info that can be found! What’s your thoughts on Messmer’s age because many consider him to be the Marika’s offspring but if he is then would that make him the first considering the trailer makes it appear that the war he raged on was around the time she’s holding the golden strands in trailer? Then again maybe the trailer only made it look like that? I can’t wait to find out more honestly and also I just realized that some fans speculate the civilians that Messmer’s army killed are the crucibles and if so that kinda makes sense why the tarnished in the trailer is using the crucible wings so most likely they’ll be a few more to collect in game!
@@brandonsalisbury7182 Messmer is a mystery, everyone keeps saying he's marikas child because of the "mother" line, but something is starting to make me think he may either be her brother or twin. Another theory I have is that Messmer IS Melina. We always thought Melina was helping us get to the erd tree to become Elden lord, but what if she was really guiding us to free Marika? We defeated Radagon and the Elden beast, so it's possible we freed her from the very threats that locked her away.
@@eyesofthebeast Dude that’s actually a very cool point him being a brother or at least related because I’ve seen a lot of crazy theories (obviously you know it gets with these games which is part of the charm) but his age is a question I asked myself in the gameplay trailer but after this one your right it’s possible he may even be older then her! His whole serpent deal makes you wonder why snakes, his darker flame magic! I definitely can’t wait plus Messmer may not even be the final boss of the story as we all know Fromsoft most definitely put hidden possibly optional bosses around the map!
@@brandonsalisbury7182 thanks! and yeah I think he's as old as Marika is. alive before the erd tree was created. but then again we don't see them in the same frame and fromsoft always plays tricks in their trailers lmao.
One thing I saw that makes me speculate is that it looks like the graces in the Land of Shadow are replaced by what's insinuated to be Miquela's "symbol". Looks like a Great Rune and also somewhat like the Ripple Crescent Halberd. Maybe they are actually depicting the events of whomever massacred the undesirables like the misbegotten. If there was a time when they were looked at as special as it says in many item descriptions, surely it's not out of the realm of possibility that Mesmer happily took them out in the name of Marika. Also, other's have noted, the doorway of bodies Marika is standing in looks exactly like the entrance to the final boss room.
I was always intrigued by the title of Lands Between and surmised at some point we would understand the full meaning of it in time. Was sort of hoping that we would be exploring this with a return to the lore style of Dark Souls, where the birth of Gold also was the birth of Shadow. But I think my hopes of this are sort of dashed with the trailers and their potential meaning. Interested to see if there really is more explaining and exploring the god skin faction here, and how they played into the creation of the world we are awoken in to! Seems like the land of shadow once existed alongside or parallel to the lands between, but is now veiled and requires some real hard work to get access to.
Lore details pls correct me and add to this: Messmer is the first born son of Marika and Radagon, born out of Wedlock while Godfrey was still Elden Lord. Before she became Queen Marika - she was losing a war where a majority of her people died but after winning, she sent Messmer, whose curse is snake related, making him a target by the two fingers, and so he is sent to the shadow realm out of protection to incinerate those who murdered her people. He’s been happily doing so until miquella shows up (?)
I’m surprised that nobody has mentioned the Forbidden lands when it comes to the land of shadow. It’s the only place that has “Red Grace” kind of what Messmers spells look like
that realm looks like a primordial erdtree interior, could be the crucible. maybe after all the sacrifices, the crucible became the erdtree and the flesh walls became thorn
Here’s an idea: I might be wrong, but what if Messmer is Marika’s brother, not her child, both born from the gloam eyed queen who we only hear about. Maybe to escape her family’s tyranny in the land of shadow, Marika overthrew her mother to leave that realm and rule in her own world: the lands between…? Just a theory
His obsession with Miquella never made sense to me until I read the bewitching branch item description: "The Empyrean Miquella is loved by many people. Indeed, he has learned very well how to compel such affection"
Just noticed the thing Marika wears as her neckless 3:33 is the same thing sipping from the Tree. I my current belief is that Mesmer is the baby she takes the golden hair from. Maybe GEQ is a snake or a spider (Briar gauntlets) as snake is on the screen when Messmer says mother. Hermaphrodite like Dragonlord Placidusax. Maybe that long black thing behind her feet she is carrying is snake skin. Messmer was gonna be an elden lord but got betrayed - physically disconnected from the golden tree... And the rest is history :) Than Radagon is born from the baptism at the baptismal church but unclean (from crucible era) has to go through Rennala charade and be recleaned by celestial dew... Godfrey does his thing...
My guess was the seduction was the Greater Will, as an outer god, seducing Marika when she was still an Empyrean, and when she ascends to her golden godhood, the act of doing so made the land of shadows, well, shadowed. And we know Marika eventually betrayed the Greater Will by shattering the Ring, and set in motion things to kill it (Hewg's vow and creating the Tarnished), so we can guess the Greater Will's promises to her must have fallen flat somewhere, hence the betrayal. In any case, I think maybe the Greater Will's enemy, which could be another an outer god, controls the Land of Shadow, and Miquella is seeking that outer god to so he can ascend to full godhood on his own terms, and not Mohg's. I gotta say though I really like this interpretation of Godwyn not even being Godfrey's child, and Messmer is his twin. It would be just like Marika to pop out on her own to secure a non-Omen bloodline. It would line up with Marika eventually just mating with herself considering Messmer is clearly a psychopath.
Ok I think I've got it figured out. Marika has constructed the Erdtree using the combination of sacrificial bodies imbued with the threads of power from a god. It looks like Messmer is doing all the killing, but I think it's a red herring - he likes to impale, and none of the bodies in the pile are impaled. Who do we know likes discarded bodies? Gael. He's still looking for the Dark Soul. Official crossover confirmed. This, then, confirms what we're seeing at the start. Who have we seen before grabbing a glowing thing in a cave? The Furtive Pygmy. If Radagon/Marika can be 2 in 1, why can't they be 3 in 1? Radagon is Marika is the Furtive Pygmy. The age of fire has ended so it/they have had to find a new source of power to create their new age. Finally, we get an answer to what the "Lands Between" are: Elden Ring is the game between Dark Souls and the next game Miyazaki is making that are all fully interconnected in every way. Dark Souls 5 confirmed.
Just a random theory, maybe Radagon was the god in the lands of shadow, the reason messmer has red hair and the reason he almost had no backstory where he came from in ER
It's the old world before the golden order, before the erdtree so it's possible that the "shadow" tree is the old crucible tree that existed before the erdtree took it over.. this would also make sense with the lore of death.
I think messmer maybe realized that the golden order wasn’t so great and tried to wipe them out? Or there was some sort of betrayal maybe committed by Marika herself that we never knew about, I remember in the first trailer there’s a voice line that says “they were never saints, just on the losing side of the war”. Maybe the golden order and lineage is not so great and holy as we think, can’t wait to play!!!
why is everyone assuming Messmer is Marika's son? when Messmer refers to his "mother" in that other trailer, he could be referring to the gloam eyed queen or someone completely unknown. i dunno, him being Marika's offspring seems "too easy".. so easy, it makes me believe that's not the case.
Hii fextra!! The body parts are super similar to the body parts we can see in the blasphemous blade, perhaps she killed that outer god (maybe a serpent god) creating a blasphemy, and she was cursed, (imagine that god was one of the gods of the numen realm, with another name). As she did that sin, she took something from that heresy, maybe a "key" to open the realities and looking for something better for her, she separated the realms, running away. Those who protected the old god took revenge on her, becoming the future black knives, who followed Marika through that portal because of her heresy, to kill her. She could complete the escape and she ran away into "the lands between". The name is strange...in between what? Shadow realm and outer world, where she could be finnaly free. The second part of the video we saw fire. Fire was also something related to the sins and maybe the serpent god, maybe could used it too. (As we've seen with rykard and blasphemous flames). In Marika's war against the giants she cursed them (perhaps cause it reminds her of the old gods she killed to obtain freedom and she realised they were using different characters in the lands between as vessels to kill her? ) Speaking about vessels and outer gods..we have seen an omen in the trailer. Perhaps it was "moghwyn"?. As that outer god (the mother of the truth) is also from another dimension, perhaps it is for the shadow realm and it used mogh as his future vessel in the lands between once Marika died and that outer god had enough power to go into the lands between? However, the death of mogh was the beginning of the dynasty, as he didn't know mogh was "the key" to connect that realm, that's why he says that phrase before he dies against us, perhaps the mother of the truth enlightened him before he died and then he thought we will continue with his "dynasty". What I have as a theory is that perhaps marika did something unholy getting married with a "Godwin 2.0 in that numen realm. That old god didn't approve of that, and she was cursed. She get pregnant and then the outer god was worried, reason why it threw a curse agains her. She had the omen "moghwyn" as a cursed child and Mesmer as sons (the chosen one). Then Marika took revenge and she fought that outer god in the realm. She won but she did something unholy, so she as she knew run she will die because of that heresy. She moved into the lands between and there she wanted to escape too, but she failed. She thought that Godfrey could be the one that will give her the key to escape but she had mogh and morgot (omens, part of the curse) and Godwin (the chosen one,) the black knives knew that, the new chosen ine has arrived and then they crested the strategy to kill him with ranni's help, as the outer of ranni wants to go to the "moon realm or ethereal realm" were Marika wanted to go, but failed.dont forget the black knifes they were numens, as Marika. Perhaps they knew Marika's plan of freedom. Maybe Mesmer, as Marika ran away, was chosen as Marika to be a vessel by that god in the shadow realm. Maybe the serpent god (the one that I think Marika killed) "We can't kill the snake" rykard said it) so perhaps in a state of rage that outer god used him. He was Marika's son.. Then, Mesmer, the new vessel, destroyed all that was related to Marika in the "shadow" realm, in the name of that god, looking for a way to cross to the lands between. Maybe tanith, (she is a foreigner) is related to the realm shadow, we have seen a character that is similar in the trailer, and perhaps it has some connection with it, as she is "married" with rykard, the snake. Maybe rykard was the vessel of that god in the lands between, as Mesmer is, in the shadow realm thanks to the snake that mesmer created and tanith gave to rykard. Also we have the ouroboros, the snake that will destroy everything (and we have weapons that have the same shape thanks to the picture they put in recently). Maybe rykard, decimating the demi gods will allow Mesmer to reign using something to open a portal towards the shadow realm, or to the "lands between " where he will be the new outer god and ruler. As rykard snake function was done, the "serpent" will return to it's master, Mesmer, killing rykard and ending the old demi gods in the lands between and beginning a new era as an eternal circle. As Marika the eternal, but this time with mesmer. Soooorry for the text, I'm not an expert in lore but yesterday I had that idea.. perhaps you will read it, fextra! Keep up the good work and don't hesitate to comment, (with respect, please..)it should be nice to read more crazy theories 😂
I like your idea except I think Messmer is clearly a son of Radagon because he has his Red hair. I think it's safe to assume he has something to do with the Fell God/Fire Giants
Catching onto the "and so too was shadow born" to be interpereted as a legitimate affair where both Mesmir and Godwyn were born as twins and not some classical fromsoft lore obscurity is some great stuff which gives me more hype towards the supposed unearthed lore which could be, of the gold/shadow twins.
I don’t think anyone has to be a lore specialist here. The game is designed for people to have their take once they experience it. If many people don’t get it, then it’s a design issue and/or intent. I do think it’s interesting how art and life are reflections. Winners (those who outlast others) write the history and sing its songs
Your timeline is incredibly wrong, given that we know the land of shadow is 1. Where Marika first set foot 2. Where the Erdtree was born 3. Where Marika became a god. So anything involving Godwyn, Morgott, Mogh makes zero sense given the timing
I have no evidence But i speculate that Radagon was the one chosen to be an Empyrean and that Marika was his counterpart, a part that turned against him a warped the golden order
Miquella is definitely a Griffith type character. Everyone loves him but he is actually one bad dude. My guess is there is a secret fight where you realize he was always evil and you have to take his ascended form down.
I think the item that Merika is holding is indeed Miquela’s rune or part of it. That rune might be the key to Mesmer’s realm and it’s probably what’s keeping him locked away 🤷 just my thoughts
I haven't been this stoked for a DLC like ever I don't think 😂 Maybe back in halo 3 times when sandbox came out snd all the new forge maps like the Halo on Halo race map in the sky n shit like that
Marica is seen pulling golden strands of possibly hair out of a flesh body which is theorised to be a pregnant ladies stomach, Mesmer could have been her child and raised by marica which explains his unusual Bodie. I think maybe marica had killed this ladie and used her power to created her order, maybe that by taking those hairs she gained power, I don’t know if they would actually do something like this but maybe marika wasn’t always an empyrean and had maybe gained her power by finding a way to steal people of their destiny and use their power for herself. We also see marica hold these golden Stan’s up when it looks like she is creating her golden order in the lands between and all the dead bodies around her that are shaped like a doorway, this also looks like what blasphemy looks like in elden rings main game with rhycard and the blasphemous blade, marika could have these rules of blasphemy in the golden order to prevent other empyreans to follow her path and become gods to start the new order. But that’s a cool theory I thought of and it could have potential.
0:40 the thing in this angle makes me think it’s an top down shot of the head and eye which she seems to be pulling the thread hair stuff from. Also, the figure proportions here could also work for a man. wouldn’t it be a hell of a twist to see that Radagon came first, not Marika. In other words Radagon and Marika were always one being, he just spent a lot of time in Marikas form, but he is the original not Marika.
Am I the only one who notices the manly features of Marika's back? Her boulders for shoulders, and wide lats. I think she has always had this man/woman physique. Even in the first trailer we ever see her before the game actually comes out, she is represented with both masculine and feminine physiques.
Something I never see talked about in all of the Elden Ring lore videos concerning Miquella is the bewitching branch and its description. With the DLC coming out and focusing on Miquella’s backstory, that last line of the item’s description has always made me curious.. did anyone follow him willingly?
I think that the pregnant woman in the trailer was the real god or atleast supposed to be. And in the Beginning we see marika taking the golden strands from what looks like a belly maybe. And i think thats the reason that the native's of shadow realm are opposing marika. And maybe messmer is fighting for marika against the shadow realm native. The pregnant woman was really important to the native's. And it could be that messmer is the child of that pregnant woman because as one of the npc says in the base game [ The unwanted child of queen marika]. Miquella being all kind and charming, maybe she doesn't like what her mother did to the shadow realm and the pregnant woman, and reaching out to us and several npc in the shadow realm to help her and follow her footsteps. Another theory about miquellla is that her powers allow her to influence or mesmerize people. And the reason that she reached out to us and other tarnished has to do something with st.trina. maybe miquella is a evil mastermind and trying to set connection with st.trina with our help, we think she is all good and kind but she could have a evil plan under her sleeves. Messmer being confused about her mother maybe may something to do with the pregnant woman shown in the trailer. If have to say something about my theory,, plz reply.
Mesmer is melina, he wants to burn down the erd tree so the lands can merge once again, the erd tree was made to create a partition between those without grace. Mesmer lead you to burn the erd tree down and become Elden Lord so he can take up the mantle and become ruler. Miquella has 2 forms st trina and obviously miquella, not sure about malenia having a male counter part but possible, and mesmer has Melina who he can use to manipulate the tarnished.
I have a feeling that Mesmer is somehow an aspect of Miquella, just like marika and radagon are essentially the same. Maybe it’s hereditary. All other red haired characters are offspring of radagon so it would make sense. maybe Miquella and Mesmer are golden / shadow variants of the same person? I think Miquella needs to combine with / defeat his Mesmer aspect so he can become full emperyon and mohg is helping with that?
Perhaps the Omen's come from the land of shadow, and Marika sends Mesmer to wipe them out in their homeland. That would explain why Mogwyhn and Miquella team up, possibly to establish their dynasty in the Lands of Shadow, where Omen's and other outcasts can live in peace.
Or what if messmer is the child of the formless mother and what is Marika is the formless mother she's taking many different forms before. Look at all of her oldest children and their relationship with snakes&dragons and omens messmer is literally all of them in one.
if you look at the waopons of mesmer and mohg the have kind of the same design the blad part of the waopons start with gold and the piercing part of both of them is black.
You know, after seeing the body at the bottom of Stormveil with those empty eye sockets, it looks very similar to whatever the container that’s having threads pulled out of 🤔
What if the city is the last dwellers of the crucible? An thats why the inhabitants have horns like that and thats why there is a dragon dancer to celebrate the crucible. Its interesting to think about
I think I know what city is being burned, from The building architecture this is 100% Nokron the Eternal City; 1) From the shot of Mesmer looking over the city the dome of the building on the left has the same dome designs as the buildings you jump on when before finding the mimic tear & finger slayer blade. 2) The buildings / arches that are crumbling to dust & being sucked up towards the tree, those look like the same tall arches / bridges seen in Nokron. This makes perfect sense, Marika ordering Messmer to destroy the city she’s from, removing all traces of her origins? Is the theory of Radagon being a Mimic Tear true?
What if the lands between is between the realm of shadow and some other realm, with Marika sending messmer to conquer this land in secret as he is an unknown child.
I have always wondered why Maricka banished Godfrey after he expended his usefulness. I just chalked it up to her being a machavelian psychopath. She’s kind of struck me as a Hillary Clinton type character of the Lands Between, only much more successful and far easier on the eyes.
Timeline is a bit off. She married Godwyn AFTER becoming a god - so the betrayal was most likely an unnamed character (the one in the painting maybe?) - Miyazaki says she became a god in the land of shadows where she first walked.
I really like the theory that merika had an affair which resulted in Godwin and mesmer. This makes me think the affair was with radagon. Maybe whenever merika has children with non gods the children become omens. Probably doesn't work bc Renala kids but who knows Maybe the birth rune thing fixed em.
The elden beast theme sounds more like ds2 MAJULA theme. That and in the beginning there was a seduction and betrayal. Like with the witch queen and the king from ds2.
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Hey bro you know that part where you're talking about Mesmer and he's not the greatest child or whatever I actually think that's him talking to us the tarnished???
Mesmer the Impaler: "it's impaling time"
Me with Great Stars: "It's bonking time"
Me with Dark Moon Greatsword: "It's Slashing Time"
Me with the Moonveil Katana: "It's Mooning time"
Mohg when he sees miquella: it's impaling time
Me with blasphemous blade : it's blasphemy time
Messmer is based on the summerian god, Ningishzida, which translates to "lord of the good tree". Messmer "planted" the Erdtree by piling up corpses. That first scene shows Marika entering the Erdtree, which we know has a gold lining around it. The Erdtree roots are always surrounded by corpses. Marika surrounded the Erdtree in gold to veil the fact that it is made entirely of CORPSES. That is the shadow of the Erdtree.
You copy and pasted this on another video didn’t you 😂
When you look at the wall of bodies, it makes the shape of the doorway that we enter to fight Radagon. You've sold me sir.
@@shquankinket8068 Gotta spread your theory somehow ;)
Ugghhh…I love this symbolic of the shadow being the dark secret of the Erdtree.
Ya dude first thing I thought was that portal was the exact same we use to enter the erdtree
I’m convinced this trailer depicts Marika’s rise to power and the creation of the Erdtree. Messmer conducted her holy war to eliminate the undesirables and those without grace to feed the growth of the Erdtree with their souls. Messmer is continuing to kill on her behalf to keep the Erdtree going. Miquella is disgusted by his heritage and has entered the Erdtree in a non physical form to guide those to rise up against this. Mohg is working with Miquella to protect his physical form until he returns. Makes sense that Miquella guides tarnished in the lands between (as Melina) to take grace to become powerful enough to end this cycle and in the DLC for us once we get there.(as per translated info) Our goal is to take down Messmer so that when we burn the Erdtree at the end it becomes more permanent. You need to take out the roots to really kill a plant.
I agree with most of this. I do think Mogh is taking advantage of the situation and trying to commune with Miquella and make him Lord of the Formless mother's age with Mogh as consort.
Meanwhile, Miquella entered the Haligtree's core to do what he's doing here for the sake of Malenia and the rest of those negatively impacted by the Golden Order and his mother's legacy.
Very interesting take on Mohgs relationship. I always had a hunch that Mohg was bewitched by him as an unplanned improvisement of his grand plan.
@@GrandGoblin yeah, what if the Formless mother is turns out to be just miquella's trick to bewitch Mogh into helping him
I think its impossible that Mogh is working with Miquella, he kidnapped his physical body to use his powers as an empyrian to form a new dinasty based on a new God (formeless mother), i would say Mogh could be one of the reasons miquella hasn’t succeced. Regarding the rest makes sense that it would be more secure to " take out the roots to really kill a plant". Great analysis!
I'm fairly certain that this is supposed to be reminicent of our holy wars and Christianity. We see the search for unalloyed gold. People who speak/are against this religion/goldtree are persecuted, and the authorities have to delude themselves into believing it. Marika was seduced by the serpent and bit the apple, giving birth to messmer, and miquella is here to cleanse it(jesus).
The wall of bodies or doorway or whatever reminds me so much of the blasphemous blade covered in bodies. Or even phase two of fighting Rykard where the snake is all split open with bodies popping out of it. Might also be the crucible? That's kind of why the omens and misbegotten are hated is because they're remnants of the crucible. Any way it goes I'm so excited for it!
I was thinking about the same thing! Seeing that Messmer has both snakes and fire is a lil uncanny, too
There must be some sort of connection between the two.
We're all patiently waiting for a two hour video from vati 😂😂
You’re like the 15th person today I’ve seen make this same joke. Let’s find some new ones now eh good lord 😂
@@paulypipes3082🙊 gee willikerz
He’s the only one I trust lol. I do like all of these different ideas though
Gotta pull out your 'and so it is' tally sheet
He’s definitely the lore master of Elden ring and I have notifications 😂
One thing is certain after this trailer, all piromancers will struggle on the dlc fighting mesmer army fire resistance... and the glimpse on all 7 new npc's there at the end looked really cool.
I'm holding out hope that those aren't NPCs, it's a foreshadowing of Seamless Coop-type integration. It's an insanely popular mood with millions of downloads, very few files, and very easy installation. Given the demand, he might just give the people what they want. Hopefully. 😢
Idk, Mohg dies to a blood build. Ya know.
Thats the beauty of Faith builds, Faith has all the answers. Lightning, stone, holy...
@@Khoditsky *faith/strength ftw
its fromsoft them wielding fire doesnt mean they have higher resistance but might very well have lower resistance
a neat fun little detail is that in the shot where presumably st. Trina is falling their silhouette is shaped like a nascent butterfly
3:50 I think what she pulls out is the essence of Greater Will (godhead in Abrahamic religions) that came as a star and later forged into the Elden Ring.
The description of Elden Star reads:
“It is said that long ago, the Greater Will sent a golden star bearing a beast into the Lands Between, which would later become the Elden Ring.”
This happened before Golden Order was founded. During the age of crucible, and the DLC land of shadow where crucible era culture originates, this essence of Greater Will was used as the heat source of the crucible, metaphorical speaking, and the crucible was the old Golden Tree.
Side note I also think this is the moment Radagon was actually born. I always thought Radagon as Elden Beast’s influence of Marika (recall final boss scene). This explains why Marika’s figure was feminine when walking up the stair of corpses but became masculine when holding up the essence of Greater Will.
Plot twist, Mohg has been a good guy this whole time
Mogh did nothing wrong.
nope
Indeed
Actually i think Mesmer was questioning Marika if she would actually allow Our character (a tarnished) to become elden lord since we had no grace
Like Mesmer was saying: Really mother a tarnished WTF 🤨
we have grace tho we literally rest at stes of graces wich also lead us
The vibe of this trailer felt so different from Elden Ring’s base game. I literally get goosebumps every time I watch it! Miyazaki is a God!
That song when Mesmer is hanging off his spear looking at his victims is probably going to be my new favorite ost. It’s almost guaranteed to be mesmers boss music and I can’t wait to hear the rest of it for his phase transition
Imagine Elden Ring 2
Miyazaki is not a God, he is a human.
@@pandemicplayseverything8268 definitely a God in the gaming industry! 🙌🏻
I loved when Messmer said "this is about to get messy"
🤣🤣🤣 That would be actually Epic lol
6:50 I don’t think Mesmer’s father is Godfrey. The keyword is “affair”which hints that Marika was with someone else at the time and the only person fit this criteria is Godfrey. Recall Godfrey led crucible knight in an age where crucible is still considered as divine. So Godfrey must met Marika before the Mesmer’s purge took place bc that’s the turning point for crucible to become shunned.
Mesmer is probably the child between Marika and someone we haven’t met yet - the impaled “monk” and the one depicted in the painting. Speaking of that someone who we haven’t met, I think he’s also the father of Mohg and Morgott (twins) as well and lore saying they’re children of Godfrey is a mislead because there was a need to conceal twin’s true father because not only all of their names starts with “M” (established pattern as Radagon/Marika and Rennala’s children all starts with “R”) but also Mohg and Morgott are Omens, which is said from crucible culture and the land of shadow is where crucible culture originated.
So the timeline be like
1. Marika and Godfrey come together and have Godfrey (first born and name starts with “G”)
2. Marika have an “affair” with someone who starts with “M” and gives birth to Mesmer (sry Godfrey my man)
3. Marika bear twins Morgott and Mohg of the same “M” person
4. Something happens (related to Godskin & GEQ) and Marika becomes a god and leaves the Land of Shadow (trailer) while still being pregnant
5. Mesmer led purge happens in the Land of Shadow
6. Marika gives birth to Morgott and Mohg in the Land Between but conceals father’s true identity bc they just had a war and purge
This feels like something GRRM would write 😒
Morgott and Mogh are Godfrey's children. Remember the cutscene before Godfrey's fight, how he embraces the body of his dead son.
@@felipefortaleza8280 I know but what if Godfrey didn’t know? Recall that Marika casted away Godfrey after all her enemies fell - it feels like Marika was using and actually hated Godfrey the entire time. Also the Night of the Black Knives have strong hinting that Marika was involved… Godwyn was the perfect demigod they could hoped for, but it makes sense if Marika actually hated Godfrey.
In my interpretation, Marika was seduced by the greater will, being induced to betray the current order to begin her golden lineage. Something like "Conspire with me to bring my influence upon this world, and you will be rewarded with power as you represent me", the first scene of the trailer illustrated something of this act. Maybe it's a vibe, "the serpent tempted Eve, she commits a sin and changes the course of everything"
The "current order" would be "...the crucible of primordial life", an amalgamation "where all life was once blended together", the source of life, of power, would be the primordial divine of that world. Even gold is related, as said in Ordovis's Greatsword "imbued with an ancient HOLY ESSENCE. Its red tint exemplifies the nature of PRIMORDIAL GOLD..." I believe that in a way the Crucible was the authority of the ancient world, which must have his own order, ruled by beasts, Omens, priests, a world where he was the divine. In fact, aspects of the crucible, such as feathers and horns, "...was considered a signifier of the divine in ancient times, but is now increasingly disdained as an impurity as civilization has advanced".
All this sacred and political power was usurped and resliced. The greater will is the new authority, the Elden Ring imposes a new Order, Marika is a goddess, and Erdtree was born feeding directly from the crucible. No wonder Aspects of the Crucible are considered "...ancient Erdtree incantations", and described as "...a manifestation of the Erdtree's primal vital energies - an Aspects of the primordial crucible". It's almost an overthrow on a cosmic level, with entities instead of kings, G.R.R.Martin with a pinch of Lovecraft
I think something very important in this whole plot happened in the shadowland, and that's why it was hidden, this past was erased from history and the new era begins outside of there, in the Lands Between. Everything that refers to this ancient power is hidden, persecuted, killed or usurped because there is something hidden there. And when Mikela looks into the past and finds this stain, he/she discovers something important to be resolved, something more relevant than the flesh, the power or the destiny of becoming a god, so all of this is abandoned in favor of a new mission. And we are part of it.
I’d surmise from this video and other bits of previously disclosed lore; when Marika takes the golden strands, and we see her holding them up, that this is the moment she effectively created the Golden Order and separated what is now the Realm of Shadow from the Lands Between.
I think this betrayal led to Marika becoming an Empyrean, and started this ‘unseen war’ which occurs after the Shadow realm comes to be, such that Mesmer’s victory and slaughtering of Marika’s foes is unknown to everyone else in the Lands Between.
I guess we’ll have our answers in scarcely a month’s time 👍
The death rune and gloam eyed queen would have to play into whatever we see here in that case, as there are multiple references to the golden order being created when the rune of death was sealed away
“I could be way the fuck off” lmao your theories sound good to me!
First, I respect so much you clarifying that this is *YOUR theory* in the thumb. Now, i'll watch and comment more later xD
I really get the vibe that Mesmer is related to dragon communion somehow, just from his looks. Also the start of his flame spell in the trailer really looks like he's using the Dragon Communion Seal (pause at 6:03 in this video). Dragon communion is also considered blasphemy by the Golden Order, which would make me believe that he is at odds with Marika (or maybe was using it to help do her bidding, then she shunned him like she did the tarnished after they outlived their usefulness). Maybe he's also related to Rykard in some way somehow with all the serpent imagery as well.
Do more of these videos. Great job!
I believe Marika pulled out Miquella's Needle and that Marika is also holding onto the Threads of the Golden Order threading the Lands Between to the Lands of Shadow.
Marika is either trying to literally close the barrier off(sewing it close) or more likely than not is trying to sow the Golden Order into the Lands of Shadow, because with the description of Miquella's Needle being used to stop the Frenzied Flame it could possibly also be used to stop the Flames from the Land of Shadow. Could be connected to why Mohg's Palace is enflamed etc.
I get major Moses and parting of the Red Sea vibes, during the scene with who supposedly is Marika holding whatever that golden thread is.
the dung eater spread the omen curse, i think its got something to do with the erdtree taking the place of the sun, the one great
If you look at the impaled bodies during the city burning, at 1:49 they also have the same horns as the crucible and the omen
I had this feeling for a while but I think Godwynn the Golden and Messmer are twins. Think about it, of the other children we know about, Merika had them as twins. Mogh with Margit and Malenia and Miquella. Godwynn is the one breaking the pattern. Since were talking craziness, I think Messmer sent the black knives to kill his mothers golden child. Working with Rycard and Ranni in the lands between.
I don't see it. He probably predates all his siblings.
@@tristanward9937messmer appears to be the very first of Marika’s children and Godwin was way after those events when Godfrey was Elden lord. The only possible twin would have been Melina as she said “I was born at the foot of the erdtree”
Interested to see how Rykard and Tanith's questline is wrapped-up
Why would they have anything to do with a land only two people know about?
@@tristanward9937 their quest seems unfinished. And there are plenty of aesthetics in this trailer that are in their ballpark
@@aikan7457 sure but it ain't happening in the DLC.
Their story is literally wrapped up
If that theory is correct, that would ultimately mean that Godwyn the Golden and Mezmer were twins. One of gold(light), one of shadow, different in body alone. Which would explain why the black knives were instructed to kill Godwyn's soul and leave his body to maintain the veil that seperates the Lands Between(Lands of Godwyn), and the lands of Shadow(of Mezmer).
I love it when vesmer says “skibidi, don’t mog me. I’ll edge you to”
I don't think anyone is talking about this enough, but the gods of elden ring are all based on the real life norse gods. Marika is a hidden entity, who hangs herself from the foot of the erd tree and created the golden order. Like how Odin hung himself from Yidrasil. Radagon is like thor, weilds a hammer, with half giant heritage while also hating the giants, with red hair and throwing lightning bolts. I am predicting, that for the elden ring dlc this trend will continue to follow. I think Mesmer is like Hela (Hel). A cruel, malevolent and greedy god obsessed with killing for the sake of Odin, who was once employed by Odin to kill the opposition to the norse gods, until she was banished to Hel. I think that mesmer was the enforcement arm of the golden order, instructed to kill and maim for the sake of the golden lineage and conquer the lands between, up until queen Marika no longer needed her warriors. Just like horah louh. But unlike Godfrey, Mesmer didn't put down the sword. Instead he continued to wage wars and eventually grew to hate Queen Marika, which is why he is veiled in shadow. He needs to be kept away from the rest of the golden lineage. He is now waging a war against the erd tree. I also think that's why there is ash around the capital, because at one point Mesmer burned the erd tree. I also think that Miquella is Loki. A manipulative trickster God upsessed with killing an unkillable God, his brother Baldur, who would be Godwyn in this example. Unable to die, but totally emotionless. And if my prediction are right, and all the gods of the game are based upon their real life counter parts, then we can make big predictions. Mesmer will reveal that his mother instructed him to kill all the people of the lands between, and he is the reason why scholars that see fire in their visions are banished. Miquella will be neither a good guy or a bad guy, he will 100% be manipulative to the tarnished. Godwyn will be killed in full, and this will start a chatoclism to ragnararak. The death of all the demi gods in the lands between. St. Trina is Dis
the godwyn baldur comparison is funny since his first ‘death’ helped put the shattering into motion like how baldur’s death was one of the events that put ragnarok into motion
Ohh very interesting. I screenshotted this.
@@allimJ screen shot this too. Ranni also has traits of Loki, the lying, the shapshifting she does (moving her soul into the doll) and her complete rejection of the golden order. Just like how loki rejects the Aesir gods in favor of the Jhotenar. Just like how Ranni sided with the Carians, who, according to the essence of the sword of night and flame, also aligned themselves with the giants for a period. And Melania is straight up called a Valkyrie. Cause there are no gods of disease in Norse mythology, she doesn't follow traditional mythology. She's the only demi god who weilds a weapon that the Norse didn't use, a Katana
If I had to guess. I think messmers flame/ seal is a leech life type of fire. Black flame but with health regen to caster. Just a Theory
Oooweee that would be super cool I’ll take all the health regen I can get lol
A flame similar to the blasphemous blade.
We see Godfrey all grey at the time we meet him, maybe they’ll reveal him as being red haired too, saying he’s Mesmers dad. Or Mesmer could be Godwyns other half. But I think he’s going to be a brother of Radagon and Marika, like Maliketh.
Zombie: "Send more police officers..."
Miyazaki: "Send more funy theories..."
The time frame has me the most curios! It’s clear enough what the first half of the trailer is saying but I’m still very confused to if Miquella has ulterior motives or really is a good hearted Demi god who is against what all Marika did to birth her godhood! Either way this expansion is going to be incredible & decent in size!
He's definitely a good guy who found out about Marika's heinous acts to rise to godhood and went against it. That's why Miquella stripped himself of his destiny, he was disgusted by it. He and Ranni most likely created this plan so that they defeat Marika and put an end to it all.
I also think St. Trina WAS supposed to be what radagon is to Marika. Orrr perhaps, what Marika is to radagon. We know that Marika is evil but who's to say Radagon isn't her base form and not Marika? It's clearly radagon who's opening up the rift, that's why he's shirtless with no side boob in sight.
@@eyesofthebeast Cool insight! I’ll be honest I’m not the most lore intelligent fan but I consider myself averagely knowledgeable only because I love taking my time and reading/listening to all bits of info that can be found! What’s your thoughts on Messmer’s age because many consider him to be the Marika’s offspring but if he is then would that make him the first considering the trailer makes it appear that the war he raged on was around the time she’s holding the golden strands in trailer? Then again maybe the trailer only made it look like that? I can’t wait to find out more honestly and also I just realized that some fans speculate the civilians that Messmer’s army killed are the crucibles and if so that kinda makes sense why the tarnished in the trailer is using the crucible wings so most likely they’ll be a few more to collect in game!
@@brandonsalisbury7182 Messmer is a mystery, everyone keeps saying he's marikas child because of the "mother" line, but something is starting to make me think he may either be her brother or twin.
Another theory I have is that Messmer IS Melina. We always thought Melina was helping us get to the erd tree to become Elden lord, but what if she was really guiding us to free Marika?
We defeated Radagon and the Elden beast, so it's possible we freed her from the very threats that locked her away.
@@eyesofthebeast Dude that’s actually a very cool point him being a brother or at least related because I’ve seen a lot of crazy theories (obviously you know it gets with these games which is part of the charm) but his age is a question I asked myself in the gameplay trailer but after this one your right it’s possible he may even be older then her! His whole serpent deal makes you wonder why snakes, his darker flame magic! I definitely can’t wait plus Messmer may not even be the final boss of the story as we all know Fromsoft most definitely put hidden possibly optional bosses around the map!
@@brandonsalisbury7182 thanks! and yeah I think he's as old as Marika is. alive before the erd tree was created. but then again we don't see them in the same frame and fromsoft always plays tricks in their trailers lmao.
Marika looks androgynous, like she's mid transformation into Radagon
One thing I saw that makes me speculate is that it looks like the graces in the Land of Shadow are replaced by what's insinuated to be Miquela's "symbol". Looks like a Great Rune and also somewhat like the Ripple Crescent Halberd. Maybe they are actually depicting the events of whomever massacred the undesirables like the misbegotten. If there was a time when they were looked at as special as it says in many item descriptions, surely it's not out of the realm of possibility that Mesmer happily took them out in the name of Marika.
Also, other's have noted, the doorway of bodies Marika is standing in looks exactly like the entrance to the final boss room.
It would be cool if the DLC entrance was the Radagon arena in the erdtree, with another door in the back. You come out of the shadowy erdtree.
I was always intrigued by the title of Lands Between and surmised at some point we would understand the full meaning of it in time.
Was sort of hoping that we would be exploring this with a return to the lore style of Dark Souls, where the birth of Gold also was the birth of Shadow. But I think my hopes of this are sort of dashed with the trailers and their potential meaning.
Interested to see if there really is more explaining and exploring the god skin faction here, and how they played into the creation of the world we are awoken in to!
Seems like the land of shadow once existed alongside or parallel to the lands between, but is now veiled and requires some real hard work to get access to.
I'm thinking about how excited I am to play elden ring again
Lore details pls correct me and add to this: Messmer is the first born son of Marika and Radagon, born out of Wedlock while Godfrey was still Elden Lord. Before she became Queen Marika - she was losing a war where a majority of her people died but after winning, she sent Messmer, whose curse is snake related, making him a target by the two fingers, and so he is sent to the shadow realm out of protection to incinerate those who murdered her people. He’s been happily doing so until miquella shows up (?)
I’m surprised that nobody has mentioned the Forbidden lands when it comes to the land of shadow. It’s the only place that has “Red Grace” kind of what Messmers spells look like
that realm looks like a primordial erdtree interior, could be the crucible. maybe after all the sacrifices, the crucible became the erdtree and the flesh walls became thorn
Here’s an idea: I might be wrong, but what if Messmer is Marika’s brother, not her child, both born from the gloam eyed queen who we only hear about. Maybe to escape her family’s tyranny in the land of shadow, Marika overthrew her mother to leave that realm and rule in her own world: the lands between…?
Just a theory
I'm pretty sure Mohg kidnapped Miquella, which could mean that Miquella didn't willingly go to the land of shadow
His obsession with Miquella never made sense to me until I read the bewitching branch item description:
"The Empyrean Miquella is loved by many people. Indeed, he has learned very well how to compel such affection"
Marika done gone full Godhand, eclipse and all to become a good with all those gory steps and pillars.
It will be incredible to be able to explore every corner of this new map and try out several new builds with the help of your videos. Goty is back.
Just noticed the thing Marika wears as her neckless 3:33 is the same thing sipping from the Tree. I my current belief is that Mesmer is the baby she takes the golden hair from. Maybe GEQ is a snake or a spider (Briar gauntlets) as snake is on the screen when Messmer says mother. Hermaphrodite like Dragonlord Placidusax. Maybe that long black thing behind her feet she is carrying is snake skin. Messmer was gonna be an elden lord but got betrayed - physically disconnected from the golden tree... And the rest is history :) Than Radagon is born from the baptism at the baptismal church but unclean (from crucible era) has to go through Rennala charade and be recleaned by celestial dew... Godfrey does his thing...
I'm pretty sure Messmer is a descendant of Radagon, because of his red hair, Fromsoftware is pretty constant regarding this sort of stuff
My guess was the seduction was the Greater Will, as an outer god, seducing Marika when she was still an Empyrean, and when she ascends to her golden godhood, the act of doing so made the land of shadows, well, shadowed. And we know Marika eventually betrayed the Greater Will by shattering the Ring, and set in motion things to kill it (Hewg's vow and creating the Tarnished), so we can guess the Greater Will's promises to her must have fallen flat somewhere, hence the betrayal.
In any case, I think maybe the Greater Will's enemy, which could be another an outer god, controls the Land of Shadow, and Miquella is seeking that outer god to so he can ascend to full godhood on his own terms, and not Mohg's.
I gotta say though I really like this interpretation of Godwyn not even being Godfrey's child, and Messmer is his twin. It would be just like Marika to pop out on her own to secure a non-Omen bloodline. It would line up with Marika eventually just mating with herself considering Messmer is clearly a psychopath.
Ok I think I've got it figured out. Marika has constructed the Erdtree using the combination of sacrificial bodies imbued with the threads of power from a god. It looks like Messmer is doing all the killing, but I think it's a red herring - he likes to impale, and none of the bodies in the pile are impaled. Who do we know likes discarded bodies? Gael. He's still looking for the Dark Soul. Official crossover confirmed. This, then, confirms what we're seeing at the start. Who have we seen before grabbing a glowing thing in a cave? The Furtive Pygmy. If Radagon/Marika can be 2 in 1, why can't they be 3 in 1? Radagon is Marika is the Furtive Pygmy. The age of fire has ended so it/they have had to find a new source of power to create their new age. Finally, we get an answer to what the "Lands Between" are: Elden Ring is the game between Dark Souls and the next game Miyazaki is making that are all fully interconnected in every way. Dark Souls 5 confirmed.
Just a random theory, maybe Radagon was the god in the lands of shadow, the reason messmer has red hair and the reason he almost had no backstory where he came from in ER
It's the old world before the golden order, before the erdtree so it's possible that the "shadow" tree is the old crucible tree that existed before the erdtree took it over.. this would also make sense with the lore of death.
The only thing that's 100% certain is that everything that is going on in the game has already happened by the time YOU came into the picture.
I think messmer maybe realized that the golden order wasn’t so great and tried to wipe them out? Or there was some sort of betrayal maybe committed by Marika herself that we never knew about, I remember in the first trailer there’s a voice line that says “they were never saints, just on the losing side of the war”. Maybe the golden order and lineage is not so great and holy as we think, can’t wait to play!!!
why is everyone assuming Messmer is Marika's son?
when Messmer refers to his "mother" in that other trailer, he could be referring to the gloam eyed queen or someone completely unknown.
i dunno, him being Marika's offspring seems "too easy".. so easy, it makes me believe that's not the case.
Hii fextra!! The body parts are super similar to the body parts we can see in the blasphemous blade, perhaps she killed that outer god (maybe a serpent god) creating a blasphemy, and she was cursed, (imagine that god was one of the gods of the numen realm, with another name). As she did that sin, she took something from that heresy, maybe a "key" to open the realities and looking for something better for her, she separated the realms, running away. Those who protected the old god took revenge on her, becoming the future black knives, who followed Marika through that portal because of her heresy, to kill her. She could complete the escape and she ran away into "the lands between". The name is strange...in between what? Shadow realm and outer world, where she could be finnaly free.
The second part of the video we saw fire. Fire was also something related to the sins and maybe the serpent god, maybe could used it too. (As we've seen with rykard and blasphemous flames). In Marika's war against the giants she cursed them (perhaps cause it reminds her of the old gods she killed to obtain freedom and she realised they were using different characters in the lands between as vessels to kill her? )
Speaking about vessels and outer gods..we have seen an omen in the trailer. Perhaps it was "moghwyn"?. As that outer god (the mother of the truth) is also from another dimension, perhaps it is for the shadow realm and it used mogh as his future vessel in the lands between once Marika died and that outer god had enough power to go into the lands between? However, the death of mogh was the beginning of the dynasty, as he didn't know mogh was "the key" to connect that realm, that's why he says that phrase before he dies against us, perhaps the mother of the truth enlightened him before he died and then he thought we will continue with his "dynasty".
What I have as a theory is that perhaps marika did something unholy getting married with a "Godwin 2.0 in that numen realm. That old god didn't approve of that, and she was cursed. She get pregnant and then the outer god was worried, reason why it threw a curse agains her. She had the omen "moghwyn" as a cursed child and Mesmer as sons (the chosen one). Then Marika took revenge and she fought that outer god in the realm. She won but she did something unholy, so she as she knew run she will die because of that heresy. She moved into the lands between and there she wanted to escape too, but she failed. She thought that Godfrey could be the one that will give her the key to escape but she had mogh and morgot (omens, part of the curse) and Godwin (the chosen one,) the black knives knew that, the new chosen ine has arrived and then they crested the strategy to kill him with ranni's help, as the outer of ranni wants to go to the "moon realm or ethereal realm" were Marika wanted to go, but failed.dont forget the black knifes they were numens, as Marika. Perhaps they knew Marika's plan of freedom.
Maybe Mesmer, as Marika ran away, was chosen as Marika to be a vessel by that god in the shadow realm. Maybe the serpent god (the one that I think Marika killed)
"We can't kill the snake" rykard said it) so perhaps in a state of rage that outer god used him. He was Marika's son.. Then, Mesmer, the new vessel, destroyed all that was related to Marika in the "shadow" realm, in the name of that god, looking for a way to cross to the lands between. Maybe tanith, (she is a foreigner) is related to the realm shadow, we have seen a character that is similar in the trailer, and perhaps it has some connection with it, as she is "married" with rykard, the snake. Maybe rykard was the vessel of that god in the lands between, as Mesmer is, in the shadow realm thanks to the snake that mesmer created and tanith gave to rykard. Also we have the ouroboros, the snake that will destroy everything (and we have weapons that have the same shape thanks to the picture they put in recently). Maybe rykard, decimating the demi gods will allow Mesmer to reign using something to open a portal towards the shadow realm, or to the "lands between " where he will be the new outer god and ruler. As rykard snake function was done, the "serpent" will return to it's master, Mesmer, killing rykard and ending the old demi gods in the lands between and beginning a new era as an eternal circle. As Marika the eternal, but this time with mesmer.
Soooorry for the text, I'm not an expert in lore but yesterday I had that idea.. perhaps you will read it, fextra! Keep up the good work and don't hesitate to comment, (with respect, please..)it should be nice to read more crazy theories 😂
I like your idea except I think Messmer is clearly a son of Radagon because he has his Red hair. I think it's safe to assume he has something to do with the Fell God/Fire Giants
Catching onto the "and so too was shadow born" to be interpereted as a legitimate affair where both Mesmir and Godwyn were born as twins and not some classical fromsoft lore obscurity is some great stuff which gives me more hype towards the supposed unearthed lore which could be, of the gold/shadow twins.
I don’t think anyone has to be a lore specialist here. The game is designed for people to have their take once they experience it. If many people don’t get it, then it’s a design issue and/or intent. I do think it’s interesting how art and life are reflections. Winners (those who outlast others) write the history and sing its songs
Your timeline is incredibly wrong, given that we know the land of shadow is 1. Where Marika first set foot 2. Where the Erdtree was born 3. Where Marika became a god.
So anything involving Godwyn, Morgott, Mogh makes zero sense given the timing
btw The fact that Messmer starts with M,could mean that he is the son of Marika and Radagon
I have no evidence
But i speculate that Radagon was the one chosen to be an Empyrean and that Marika was his counterpart, a part that turned against him a warped the golden order
Miquella is definitely a Griffith type character. Everyone loves him but he is actually one bad dude. My guess is there is a secret fight where you realize he was always evil and you have to take his ascended form down.
I think the item that Merika is holding is indeed Miquela’s rune or part of it. That rune might be the key to Mesmer’s realm and it’s probably what’s keeping him locked away 🤷 just my thoughts
I haven't been this stoked for a DLC like ever I don't think 😂
Maybe back in halo 3 times when sandbox came out snd all the new forge maps like the Halo on Halo race map in the sky n shit like that
Marica is seen pulling golden strands of possibly hair out of a flesh body which is theorised to be a pregnant ladies stomach, Mesmer could have been her child and raised by marica which explains his unusual Bodie. I think maybe marica had killed this ladie and used her power to created her order, maybe that by taking those hairs she gained power, I don’t know if they would actually do something like this but maybe marika wasn’t always an empyrean and had maybe gained her power by finding a way to steal people of their destiny and use their power for herself. We also see marica hold these golden Stan’s up when it looks like she is creating her golden order in the lands between and all the dead bodies around her that are shaped like a doorway, this also looks like what blasphemy looks like in elden rings main game with rhycard and the blasphemous blade, marika could have these rules of blasphemy in the golden order to prevent other empyreans to follow her path and become gods to start the new order. But that’s a cool theory I thought of and it could have potential.
I'm calling it, Messmer the Impaler is the child of Miquella and Mohg.
0:40 the thing in this angle makes me think it’s an top down shot of the head and eye which she seems to be pulling the thread hair stuff from. Also, the figure proportions here could also work for a man. wouldn’t it be a hell of a twist to see that Radagon came first, not Marika. In other words Radagon and Marika were always one being, he just spent a lot of time in Marikas form, but he is the original not Marika.
"OF COURSE if they say no then the answer is no, but they would never say no... Because of the implication"
- Messmer the Implicator
Am I the only one who notices the manly features of Marika's back? Her boulders for shoulders, and wide lats. I think she has always had this man/woman physique. Even in the first trailer we ever see her before the game actually comes out, she is represented with both masculine and feminine physiques.
Something I never see talked about in all of the Elden Ring lore videos concerning Miquella is the bewitching branch and its description. With the DLC coming out and focusing on Miquella’s backstory, that last line of the item’s description has always made me curious.. did anyone follow him willingly?
In the trailer when nessmer impales the omen beast/dragon the bodies underneath are impaled on individual spikes
Great runes were formed when the elden ring shattered tho even tho on the trailer it looks as she is forming a great rune.
I think it looks like she's forming the veil over the land of shadows
I think that the pregnant woman in the trailer was the real god or atleast supposed to be. And in the Beginning we see marika taking the golden strands from what looks like a belly maybe. And i think thats the reason that the native's of shadow realm are opposing marika. And maybe messmer is fighting for marika against the shadow realm native.
The pregnant woman was really important to the native's. And it could be that messmer is the child of that pregnant woman because as one of the npc says in the base game [ The unwanted child of queen marika].
Miquella being all kind and charming, maybe she doesn't like what her mother did to the shadow realm and the pregnant woman, and reaching out to us and several npc in the shadow realm to help her and follow her footsteps.
Another theory about miquellla is that her powers allow her to influence or mesmerize people. And the reason that she reached out to us and other tarnished has to do something with st.trina. maybe miquella is a evil mastermind and trying to set connection with st.trina with our help, we think she is all good and kind but she could have a evil plan under her sleeves.
Messmer being confused about her mother maybe may something to do with the pregnant woman shown in the trailer.
If have to say something about my theory,, plz reply.
Mesmer is melina, he wants to burn down the erd tree so the lands can merge once again, the erd tree was made to create a partition between those without grace. Mesmer lead you to burn the erd tree down and become Elden Lord so he can take up the mantle and become ruler. Miquella has 2 forms st trina and obviously miquella, not sure about malenia having a male counter part but possible, and mesmer has Melina who he can use to manipulate the tarnished.
3:14 Gloam-Eyed Queen's Egg. The Story trailer is clearly the war waged against the God Skin kind.
Godwyn isn’t dead.
Miquella is awake.
Melnia is a YT Influencer
I have a feeling that Mesmer is somehow an aspect of Miquella, just like marika and radagon are essentially the same. Maybe it’s hereditary. All other red haired characters are offspring of radagon so it would make sense. maybe Miquella and Mesmer are golden / shadow variants of the same person? I think Miquella needs to combine with / defeat his Mesmer aspect so he can become full emperyon and mohg is helping with that?
Some familiarity my man youve been on it for months with the short lores 😂
😂 Facts.
Perhaps the Omen's come from the land of shadow, and Marika sends Mesmer to wipe them out in their homeland. That would explain why Mogwyhn and Miquella team up, possibly to establish their dynasty in the Lands of Shadow, where Omen's and other outcasts can live in peace.
What if Miquella went to save his brother Godwyn, his spirit that is, and had mogh use a ritual and that’s why malenia is awaiting his return.
Or what if messmer is the child of the formless mother and what is Marika is the formless mother she's taking many different forms before. Look at all of her oldest children and their relationship with snakes&dragons and omens messmer is literally all of them in one.
Ayo that first scene 😂
I should call her 😢 😂😂😂 JKJK
me: "ITS BEEN 2 MINUTES ALREADY, WHERE'S SMOUGHTOWN'S NEW 4 HOUR LORE VIDEO!?"
if you look at the waopons of mesmer and mohg the have kind of the same design the blad part of the waopons start with gold and the piercing part of both of them is black.
Would be cool be able to time travel and explore this world and diferent cultures before the golden order take over
You know, after seeing the body at the bottom of Stormveil with those empty eye sockets, it looks very similar to whatever the container that’s having threads pulled out of 🤔
What if the city is the last dwellers of the crucible? An thats why the inhabitants have horns like that and thats why there is a dragon dancer to celebrate the crucible. Its interesting to think about
Godfrey started out as the champion heorox loux
I think I know what city is being burned, from The building architecture this is 100% Nokron the Eternal City; 1) From the shot of Mesmer looking over the city the dome of the building on the left has the same dome designs as the buildings you jump on when before finding the mimic tear & finger slayer blade. 2) The buildings / arches that are crumbling to dust & being sucked up towards the tree, those look like the same tall arches / bridges seen in Nokron.
This makes perfect sense, Marika ordering Messmer to destroy the city she’s from, removing all traces of her origins? Is the theory of Radagon being a Mimic Tear true?
What if the lands between is between the realm of shadow and some other realm, with Marika sending messmer to conquer this land in secret as he is an unknown child.
I have always wondered why Maricka banished Godfrey after he expended his usefulness. I just chalked it up to her being a machavelian psychopath. She’s kind of struck me as a Hillary Clinton type character of the Lands Between, only much more successful and far easier on the eyes.
Mesmer is the god of flowing capes in the wind
I think the bodies at the start are related to the godskins
Timeline is a bit off. She married Godwyn AFTER becoming a god - so the betrayal was most likely an unnamed character (the one in the painting maybe?) - Miyazaki says she became a god in the land of shadows where she first walked.
The lion dancer enemies have multiple smaller people stacked on top of each other puppetering the costume or puppet thing
I think the gold strings are hair strands of miquella is my guess
I really like the theory that merika had an affair which resulted in Godwin and mesmer. This makes me think the affair was with radagon. Maybe whenever merika has children with non gods the children become omens. Probably doesn't work bc Renala kids but who knows Maybe the birth rune thing fixed em.
Between 2:20 2:35 gives me chills every time I watch the trailer Don't know why 😂
I predict Messmer will have an attack that impales your character.
I also predict that they will eventually patch the size of the hitbox on that attack.
The elden beast theme sounds more like ds2 MAJULA theme. That and in the beginning there was a seduction and betrayal. Like with the witch queen and the king from ds2.