This episode hit close to home. I used to be a bad alcoholic, drinking a pint to a liter of rum every day. When I finally accepted I had a problem and went to get treatment, I had 2 seizures from the withdrawal, along with all the other DTs. After almost 3 years spent relapsing over and over again (sobriety is HARD) I'm finally going to be 1 year sober in January!!
Congrats! The days when you're tired or upset will be the hardest. You'll want to fall back into old habits when your willpower is at its lowest. Be strong and you'll make it!
Did they make you go cold turkey? It sounds inhumane to make a heavy drinker just stop all of a sudden. I hope they provided mental health care at the very least. Keep up the good work.
I think there's an episode where that was almost exactly their defense. the defendant killed someone in a drunk driving hit and run and his defense was the area it happened in was obscured and anyone could've hit her. They're not denying they drove drunk, their stance was anyone could've ran her over regardless of their level of sobriety.
@@Ironlantern723 And to be fair, that is actually a solid defense, because a big part of the law in such cases is proving the mental state and circumstances of the incident. If you murder someone in a fit of rage for example, the law is going to be more lenient than if you murder someone after planning it out for months. You'll still face consequences, but the level of consequences will be different because of the circumstance.
@@paulmarden3301 I can't believe they used the chewbacca defence to real life, South Park predicts everything. I was born about a year before the trial, also on the other side of the planet, and know about the trial, it is famous.
No kidding. That's literally a thought experiment used in ethics to argue against utilitarianism - if a doctor can save five lives using the organs from one patient, should they allow that patient to die? Most people will instinctually say no, of course not, that's horrible, which non-utilitarians use to argue that our moral instincts reject the idea. (And before anybody starts furiously typing: sorry, but no, I don't want to hear your opinion about how you could actually justify it/why this proves utilitarian philosophers are soulless monsters. I'm just saying that "okay, I was responsible for someone's death, but look at all the good that came out of it!" is a really bad move for someone trying to convince a jury that they shouldn't go to jail.)
Re: OJ Simpson getting free He was of course acquitted on criminal charges, but when the families of Ron and Nicole took him to civil court for wrongful death, he was absolutely decimated. The jury unanimously stopped short of saying "yeah, he did it", and the judge ordered him to pay $33,500,000, which he was unable to. He ended up selling many personal possessions, defaulted on the mortgage on his house, and filed for bankruptcy, at which point the Goldman family made claims and won the rights to OJ's horrid book _If I Did It,_ which they republished under the new title, _If I Did It: Confessions of the Killer._ Note that as a final screw you to the man who took their loved one, the Goldmans made the "if" on the dust jacket so tiny that it appears to read _I Did It._ All of this is to say that OJ Simpson may not have been convicted, but there was some justice in that he ended up losing absolutely everything.
Not only did they make the "If" small, they put it inside the "I" of "I did it" and changed the colour so it's nearly impossible to see. The "I did it" is also stretched to 25% of the cover, so it's literally impossible to see "if" at a distance.
The state of California were idiots for letting the accused have interaction with the evidence, but they were climbing uphill in the mud after the crappy forensics and chain of evidence issues.
Also if I remember correctly The main reason OJ was acquitted of his criminal charges is because basically, the prosecution completely flubbed their case and failed to conclusively prove any of the points they were making
I can't imagine the face of the doctor's attorney when he actually tried to justify the wrongful death of his patient basically saying "Yeah, I may or may have not killed this little girl while being drunk, but hey, at least other people got her organs so it wasn't entirely bad" That is single handedly the most incriminatory statement if not blantant confession you can say on the strand
It reminds me of the defense in episode 1 of She-Hulk: "Yes, some people died, but my client had the right to protect his interests, and he did so in any way he could, including killing his own employees. It's unfortunate, but it was his right to do so."
If I were an attorney, and my client said any of the things that doctor did on the stand, I would immediately ask the judge for permission to withdraw as counsel.
@@OptimusPhillip I would not, but I would play the angle afterwords, of my client did not mean that, he is very stressed, he is a troubled soul. I mean the drinking shows he not doing too, and he thus saying poorly thought out things, because he panicking and not thinking clearly Prehaps he should take six months in prison, plus several years of community service, mandatory consoling, AA meetings, to show his dedication to learn from the tragedy and improve his life. Of course he be willing to pay ten % of wages until the victims got one million dollers, he is a remorseful man. Basically try to get some kind of deal to get something that will not destroy my client life, while making him look as regretful, pitiful as possible. Not a lawyer.
"Is everyone covering for him because he has something over everyone's head?" Dr. Mike just perfectly described my former principal who was also, and continues to be, a barely functioning alcoholic.
Its the united we stand divided we fall thing. Each person being threatened feels alone and is right that if they spoke out they would be ruined. if all of them stood up and reported him, it goes the other way entirely.
To be honest though, if the alcoholic principal has something over everyone's head, then I'm more alarmed at what the hell is going on with the rest of those educators.
Actually, abuse of people and abuse of substances is part and parcel of the same pattern of abusive behaviour. People who abuse others abuse substances to make themselves "sick" so they can play the victim when they get called out for being a bad person. "Oh, I can't help it. I'm not responsible for my actions. It was the alcohol/drugs not me." Throw in "and I can finger a mid level narcotics trafficker" and an "addict" can get away with murder.
@@kieranhair37that depends which country you are living. In e.g Russia/North Korea…this would be not necessarily related to education, but could be political.
I’ve witnessed my own kid brother suffer from DT on a road trip. It started with him badly shaking and complaining about a severe headache, light sensitivity and feeling hot. Then he got quiet, and about a half an hour later, he gasped, stiffened, foamed at the mouth and was out cold. Our dad was with us so we pulled over, got him out of the car and laying on his back on the side of the road. Scared me nearly to death. I called 911 and he was out in an ambulance and sent off to the hospital where he was treated. A year later he was finally in detox and then went to rehab. He’s been sober for about 8 years now. I’m so proud of him for all the work he’s done to get from where he was to where he is now.
My mother had a dentist once that hurt her and two others while 'attempting' to practice while under the influence. In our state, at the time, if a medical or dental provider did this but entered rehab, the state shielded them and spared their licenses. Our local DA launched an effort to change the laws. Some years later, that same dentist was caught selling nitrous "shots" to local teens. Finally, the state HAD to remove his license due to tge law changes.
The fact that they can be protected simply by going to rehab is ridiculous. Particularly because while rehab can absolutely help some people, there's also a lot of people who end up relapsing or are only going due to court mandate and have every intention of continuing once they've been "cleared". For any profession where lives or injury to others are a real risk, there shouldn't be any room for a second chance when it comes to an abuse of drugs or alcohol, since if they do relapse, the risk to innocent people is too great.
There almost has to be enough episodes over the 90 years worth of law and order spinoffs and such that include both medicine and law to get at least a seasons worth of youtube videos. I mean real medicine inclusion not just "Hey they asked this doc on the stand this, is that true?" type stuff.
i was a TA and co-facilitator for a Medical Ethics class for first year Med Students. we did a week on TV depictions of medicine, for example, how heart attacks are presented as something you can leave the hospital from the same day, if you even needed to go to the hospital at all. turns out, the majority of people who have heart attacks require hospital stays and it is a live altering event.
@@lilunette9319the worst part is there's no oversight. You can just put anything on TV/movie/media and alter any one player or group to fit the narrative. Hell most of the things on TV that are based on true events still have to use entertainment elements in order to make the story more watchable. Lots of dramatisation! I watched narcos and was shocked to find out a lot of it just didn't go that way.
My uncle had the "widow maker" aortic tear. Fortunately, he called my aunt when it was just starting (to tell her he wasn't going to be able to make it out to the fair with her and was going to take a nap), and SHE called the ambulance because that was so unusual for him. He was airlifted to a major hospital with a great Cardiologist, and it saved his life...but we were ALL shocked at how destroyed his memory and mental capacity was for months after. Physically he bounced back a little faster, but his brain was oxygen starved for longer that he could compensate for. He's almost back to normal now, but still has some memory issues.
@@lilunette9319 we also did a paper called "My Leaky Liver" about how doctors (usually the specialists) are the same energy as House, or try to emulate House (could be the higher intelligent are more likely to be on the spectrum: i was told they dont fail the C students because they tend to be far more personable and much better GPs). in this paper, this lady talked about how her doctor lectured her on having a "leaky liver" and asking things like "why is your liver doing this?" it was enlightening for how people have to be trained and have to condition themselves, to make sure they are humane and personable to people in times of crisis.
The symptoms of heart attacks also don't always match the TV/movie depictions. On TV or in the movies, someone clutches their chest and collapses. When my mother-in-law had her heart attack, she felt like she had indigestion. Nothing she took helped her "indigestion" and she started looking pale and like she was going to collapse into her food. It was her birthday and the day she retired so we were out to eat. She refused to go to the hospital until we threatened to call 911 and have her dragged there in front of everyone in the restaurant. It's really frightening how many people get their knowledge of medical conditions from "this is how TV and movies depict it."
I feel this deeply, but with regard to childbirth. 😂 The ways medical shows and movies present labor and delivery are so incredibly unrealistic that they should have a disclaimer. No wonder so many women feel overwhelmed and unprepared once they are in the hospital having a baby 😢
I remember when Legal Eagle and Doctor Mike both first started. From the moment I saw them they felt like kindered spirits, similar motivations but different fields. To see them collaborating is such a wonderful thing to see 😊
6:05 I think the most objectionable thing here is that bailiff leaning against the wall while a lawyer enters the well without gaining permission first.
@@KBRoller I have seen Quorra (shudders) answers that suggest the well isn't as sacred in some courts, but it's still one of those things where you're better off erring on the side of respect. That said, I'd easily take Devin's statement over some Quorra answer.
fun fact about the whole "dont drink and cut people" vs "delirium tremens" thing: when my mother was a nurse in training about 30 years ago, the chief of surgery was actually one of those where everyone knew they needed 2 shots before being able to hold a scalpel without shaking, and the official unofficial policy was "i know nothing, i see nothing" because they were just the most experienced surgeon they had and didn't wanna lose them...
@@toolatetothestory You wouldn't necessarily need to be an alcoholic for that to happen. Alcohol is nervous system depressant. If you've got tremors from some any sort of overactive nervous system issue, or from being on a stimulant, it might very well help stabilize your hands. That's also part of why some people with bipolar self-medicate with alcohol: it can take them down a few notches when they're manic, and let them do things like sleep. Needless to say, though, it's not the best treatment method for insomnia, nor hand tremors.
In addition to the "strenuous" objection there's another thing in common with A Few Good Men: the prestige and reputation of the suspect being used as a roadblock. The residents unwilling to challenge someone with so much seniority, and the defence attorney highlighting Dr Raza's inexperience and (presumably racist perception of) inferior schooling, is a lot like being threatened with sanctions for accusing Jessop of misconduct because of his service record and political connections. Both are probably overplayed for drama. There's one scene I always liked in this episode for trying not to think so linearly: The DAs conclude they've got Auster drinking like a fish, they've got him injecting the opioids... and yet this isn't quite enough to prove he crossed the line from unfortunate mistake to criminal recklessness. But then Robinette suggests another way to look at it: If Auster was aware of his alcoholism, drinking before work is itself criminally reckless. "The crime did not take place in the emergency room, it took place at the cocktail party." This is why the later trial is about digging up evidence of his knowing he's an alcoholic.
Glad I'm not the only one picking up on that racist feeling question. They even had the guy pause before answering like he was embarrassed. I don't know whether that school is good or not, but I wager neither does the attorney or the jury.
I felt the racism thing too. I haven’t watched a ton of L&O but I noticed they play on racism a lot in the episodes I’ve seen both for entertainment (a lot of the characters are basic stereotypes) but also in the courtroom for good and bad.
My grandma always tells the story of when my mom broke her arm as a kid, and when she met with the surgeon who was going to operate on her he was reeking of alcohol and she refused surgery on my mom, but the nurses brushed it off saying thats when he's at the top of his game, almost syaing "be grateful he's drunk and not sober craving being drunk, then that would be the problem"... This was back in the late 80s, I dont know if he practiced medicine for long or if other people brought it up too
My parents are both functioning alcoholics. Fortunately not doctors (or lawyers), and beyond the morning Bloody Mary and the noon-time cran-vodka, they did most of their drinking in the evening after work. *lol* Both of them have been recommended by their doctors to STOP drinking--my mother has dementia, my step-father has a rare autoimmune clotting disorder. I think my step-father must have fessed up to his doctor, because that did change to "OK...no more than 2 beers a day". My mom gets her wine/alcohol seltzer every day. I think at this stage in life that's the best we can do without causing even worse effects. My brother and I also are alcoholics--his actualized and mine in potential (I ALWAYS crave a drink) But I avoided the worst of it by realizing the family problem early. I didn't drink at all until I was 25 and had a "spotter" in my husband (who doesn't drink), and recently got my own doctor's note to stop drinking because I have Ulcerative Colitis. My brother and I both been completely sober now for over a year, supporting each other in our sobriety
watching the two parts back to back really highlights their different styles of editing. dr mike with the gifs that pop into frame and legaleagle with the freeze frames, arrows, and lil annotations. they're not dissimilar jokes and they both pop in a lot of definitions and fun facts, but the distinct ways they appear matches their respective energies so well haha
The thing about judges who recently are giving lighter sentences was debunked - it was a data artefact caused because judges packed all the short cases (which are usually easy convictions/rejections) just before lunch.
Oh that's wonderful news!! Thank goodness, the whole thing was just so awful to think about, consider the consequences. I'm so glad it turned out to be a misinterpretation of the data!
@@omidm.935 yeah. Like if it's 11:45 and lunch is at noon, they'll just pick out a simple case they can finish getting through in time for lunch (and then get back to the complex cases after their lunch break).
I really enjoy these collaborations. As someone who isnt an expert in medicine or law in any fashion but is surrounded by ER fans' medical expertise and Law and Order fans' legal expertise, it's really nice to have people who actually do have expertise and know how to explain it (dumb it down) so us non-experts and fake experts can understand. Kudos
I love whenever something super inaccurate or ridiculous happens on screen and one of these two gets shocked or offended 😂 It's why I love these collabs.
As a programmer, I can relate. I've lost count of the number of times some TV show or movie has depicted people using computers in ways that are totally unrealistic. Stuff like a person trying to stop an hacker but rapidly typing on a keyboard and then a second person rapidly types ON THE SAME KEYBOARD at the same time. Nevermind that you don't stop a hacker like that. Two people typing on the same keyboard would get gibberish, not Extra Hacker Stopping Skillz.
Only done mock trial’s for school but I resonated with LegalEagle’s “I would destroy him on cross”. Cross is honestly my favourite part of a mock trial!
Fun OJ Fact: He stopped taking his anti-inflammatory drugs to make his hands swell so the glove would not fit as well as doing strenuous hand exercises for weeks prior to really seal the con deal.
I could have a snugly fitting pair of leather gloves, get them wet, let them dry, and then be unable to put them on again if you let me wear latex gloves, spread my fingers wide, and shrug with an idiotic grin.
Wasn't it also the fact that leather shrinks when exposed to liquids (in that case blood) and so the gloves he tried on could've been the real ones but it likely shrank over the time of trial?
@@MichaelWutsch Misdirecting evidence! Another person's driver's license, blood from a farm animal, a license plate from the private vehicle of a police officer in another jurisdiction...
I think my favorite part of the episode is the look on his face when he couldn't touch his nose. The look of realization on his face was great. It would be nice if it were more like that in real life but denial and addiction are powerful forces.
It established that the guy actually believed that his drinking had no effect on his actions. As the guys commented, he did not even try to correct himself when he could not touch his nose on the first try. He really was deluded enough to think that after drinking so much alcohol less than an hour earlier, he would not be impaired.
20:24 I’ve seen this in the movie “The Last Samurai”, when Captain Nathan Algren is forcibly prevented from drinking alcohol while a captive/POW of the Samurai by the sister of the Samurai leader while recovering from his injuries in battle at her house. He starts going through withdrawal symptoms and seems to be in agony and going half crazy while shaking like an earthquake.
Also in the OJ Simpson case, instead of using a new pair of the same gloves in the same size, the prosecution used the same gloves, which had been covered in blood and were stiff and thus did not fit as they would have before the crime was committed.
The easy defence would be that since he is drinking so often they even have an inside joke about it in the hospital and no incident has occurred in years of him practicing like this, it suggests he is a high functioning alcoholic, i.e. is perfectly capable of performing care even under the influence of alcohol.
I think there was an earlier scene where the investigators were going over cases where people in his care did die hence the testimony about the organ transplants
The thing about this that's so interesting is Dr. Mike hearing from a lawyer, wait so there's laws specifically saying you can't drink and drive but there isn't one saying you can't drink and practice medicine, that of a drunk doctor in a hospital goes down to reckless endangerment vs killing someone while driving drunk as vehicular manslaughter. And the brilliant part of the episode is the look of horror from the doctor when he fails the test right in court that, "oh my god I never knew it was this bad"
Well Dr. Nick encouraged Homer to gain weight for the sole reason to qualify as disabled. Lionel Hutz is just dumb. He's rumored to not wear Indochino also.
4:57 For those whom care, that isn't the Rod of Asclepius which is associated with medicine that symbol is Caduceus or the Rod of Hermes and is used for mercantile endeavors. Even some hospitals make the mistake, but the Rod of Asclepius only has one snake wrapping around the rod and no wings.
I think you two should ABSOLUTELY review the series "Dr Death", it absolutely STUNNED me it was based on a true story! EDIT: For those who don't know, Christopher "Dr death" Duntsch was the first ever doctor to be convicted of murder and GBH when it was ruled he intentionally maimed his patients, with a whopping 33/38 of his routine surgeries ending in death or serious complications such as paralysis. Examples included: placing screws into muscle instead of bone and insisting they were correct when nurses pointed out his error (or putting them in the wrong vertebrae ENTIRELY), slicing open a patients throat during surgery on his neck vertebrae and stitching it closed with a medical sponge packed in his throat causing severe infection, continuing to operate when a patient was bleeding out after cutting an artery despite colleagues warnings, and cutting through nerves that were no where NEAR where he was supposed to be operating. To this day, no one is knows if it was because he was (allegedly) snorting a cocktail of drugs right before surgery, or, if he was INTENTIONALLY butchering patients out of psychopathy (with one victim being his OWN roommate/best friend). It really has to be seen to be believed!
I listened to a podcast about this before he was convicted (and of course started reading up obsessively on his horrific actions), and then the update after he was convicted. And later the documentary that was released about it. Absolutely mindblowingly atrocious human being. It pains the heart to think of his victims who were maimed, and their families, as well as his colleagues and the people who were reporting him and trying to stop him, and the batshit insane bureaucracy that allowed it to keep happening and just bounced him around, instead of protecting the patients by revoking his licence & ending his career; the utter cruelty & injustice. :(
@@AylaMarianna Do you think he INTENTIONALLY maimed his patients due to either psychopathy or a desire to be famous (remember that email he sent saying he would get more recognition if he killed people as opposed to the recognition of being a good surgeon? But then again, would he INTENTIONALLY paralyse his best friend?) OR, was he just SO out of it on drugs that he either couldn't tell, or didn't care he was performing poorly (mixed with the extreme arrogance to insist he wasn't)?
@@SarahJSweetheart I unfortunately think it kind of became intentional, but more out of negligence? Because I think he has difficulties viewing other people as real: we are like NPC's in a computer game. He was trying to perform above his skill-level, and when that didn't work, then "meh, whatever, might as well do the surgical equivalent of scribbling out text". Maybe "lashing out a bit in anger/frustration" like a kid throwing away a game controller (but WITH A SCALPEL. On SOMEONE'S SPINE 😭), etc. And then the substance abuse too... like a drunk & unskilful driver who is unable to care and needs to be stopped.
@@SarahJSweetheart Psychopaths are generally narcissistic, btw. 'Psychopath' as a term used by us layfolk is generally attributed to particularly abusive individuals with more serious & extreme negative symptoms/behaviour (belonging to the same cluster of personality disorders: B). It's a spectrum, and most people don't fit within extremes. So when he-an exception in the cluster B spectrum-couldn't actually live up to the reputation he desired (at least, not among his peers) because he wasn't competent-enough, well... so it's not a question of "either/or", as his decisions were likely influenced by both. Honestly, functional/"mild psychopathy" kinda lends itself well to fields like surgery, first responders, etc.: you probably won't have to deal that much with people in ways that would require extended displays of compassion/empathy (hard to fake) as you're primarily like a "human mechanic" or focused on getting people to survive long-enough to make it to the next group of people (e.g. transport to an emergency department of a hospital), or just dealing with idiots who you can hopefully manipulate to act less self-destructively (like some benevolent manipulator who gets to practice their skills on the toughest, most hard-to-crack of human subjects 😹), or simply ignorant people who just need the correct information/knowledge explained to them in an understandable way in order to feel comfortable and be safer towards themselves and others; you're unlikely to "bring work home" (mentally), so you can sleep better at night (or whenever you sleep XD) and are less likely to burn out emotionally; and your fear-response is inherently diminished!
@@AylaMarianna I wonder what that says about me, considering I wanted to be a surgeon before I became chronically ill X3 (ironically, with very severe scoliosis, leading to spinal fusion surgery - one of surgeries he regularly performed on patients, or rather, subjected victims to! Although, I wanted to be a reconstructive surgeon in order to help people)
I rely on Leagal Eagle's commentaries and explanation of all our political craziness but I had really missed his lighter fare. Plus, how awesome was early Law & Order?! Great episode to pick for analysis! 🎉
I LOVE LOVE LOVE that you guys approached this IN A LAW AND ORDER IDEA! Dr.Mike gave his opinion with the police investigation section (Law)..... THEN Devin did the ORDER section of the episode! THANK YOU !!! (As a huge fan of the show and BOTH OF YOUR VIDEOS THIS WAS AMAZING!)
My work buddy was a heavy alcoholic, up until he had heart attacks, and finally quit. As he put it: "Quitting drinking was the worst time of my life." And he also kicked smoking cigarettes too. Anyone who quits drinking, you get my respect and hope that you handle it well.
I always really enjoy these colabs. These two seem like they have a genuine friendship, and interest in each other's fields. Looking forward to lots more!
This is super weird for me! Where I live, if a doctor practices medicine under the influence of any mental altering drug, with the exceptions of prescribed ones (and even in those, there are exceptions) they can lose their licence in a heartbeat, and that's not even including if a patient dies or not.
As someone who lives in the US, I'm curious: Can people easily sue doctors where you live? I'm wondering if part of the differences has to do with the interactions with other laws. Not that I'm defending our system, I think it's very broken, but I'm curious about some of the reasons for thing.
You have to remember a couple of things about this. One it is a TV series and things are exaggerated for drama or they flat out don;t follow the rules of reality. Second the doctor in question is a highly respected and well connected individual so much so that a recommendation from him can make or break careers. It may be the law that they lose their licensee but I can guarantee you there always exceptions based on the resources of said doctor or the potential value the doctor provides.
@@kyubbiman2255keep in mind that medical licensure is not an arm of the state prosecutor’s office, it’s a separate regulatory agency. I don’t know if anything about medical licensure has to do with the law, directly. Maybe it does, but in particular this episode is about prosecuting a crime (which may result in the loss of a medical license, with the medical board citing a conviction as proof of misconduct), not a review of the licensure.
@@drcatspaw I think there's a cultural difference, yeah, people can sue a doctor but the lawsuit can only be upheld after a medical and ethics board reviews the case (nobody on this board can even know the doctor in question). Maybe an example would help: We got a call about a gentleman having heart issues, and he has a cardiac arrest in the ambulance. You know, CPR, drugs, defibs, the whole show. Only after we brought him back and was in the hospital, I learned he was DNR (do not resuscitate). Due to the nature of the event, me not knowing the DNR and administering the same quality of care of someone w/o a DNR, I wasn't liable to any lawsuits, should the person tried to. So no, lawsuits against doctors aren't common UNLESS there's clearly is gross negligence by a medical staff member.
@SuiLagadema Yea, unfortunately it seems that my country leaves such things to civil suits. A horrible system. But it explains why the booze wasn't an open and shut case in the show since it was a criminal case. Just my opinion, I'm by no means an expert.
Just throwing it out there, you guys are missing a wasted opportunity. You both could have sports teams composed of doctors and lawyers that could regularly compete against each other for charity, Eagles vs Bears.
Love when these two are doing an episode together. They got great chemistry and insight to learn from each other. As a viewer, it’s entertaining. I watched BOTH of their episodes!
I am an opioid addict currently taking medication to stop DTs, they are horrific and life threatening. However I am 11 months clean and should be able to quit taking said medication within the next year! I tried quiting cold turkey and that was a painful hellish experience. So when the doctor said they are bad, trust they are horrific. Vomiting, convulsions, sweats. fever, and much much more.
@@OldManYellsAtClouds Ah didn't realize Mike's background. Still, not mocking him it's just kind of a crazy thing to consider that we've all just kind of gotten used to the idea that OJ is definitely a murderer who fully got away with it, and he's experiencing that realization for the first time. Love our dystopia.
@@hoid9407- Most times, it's the ex, and the only reason it turned into the fiasco it did was because OJ was famous and the prosecution missed some beats. Bugliosi wrote his take on the case.
I know you are both busy with your amazing channels. I do think it would be fun for a different doctor/lawyer combination to make content like this regularly. It's fun to watch.
I like the specificity of "don't practice medicine under the influence of alcohol". Time to experiment what substances i can practice under the influence of
Odds are there are laws to the effect of "death as a result of diminished faculties". So any substance that reduces your ability to think and reason would fall under that. He'll, stopping taking a medication could cause that as well, when I've messed up and missed a does of my prescription I get extremely dizzy, so that could contribute to an accident for me if I was , for example, driving.
The Pakistani doctor's cross-examination was intended to cast him as unreliable to the jury. Hate to say it, but there are otherwise intelligent people in the United States who would think someone trained in Peshawar can't possibly be as knowledgeable and competent as someone from the lower quarter of their class at a lower-tier school in the U.S.
18:58 In the O.J. Simpson case, speculation whirled up that O.J. stopped taking his medicine to alleviate inflammation a couple of weeks before he tried the glove -- "If it don't fit, don't convict."
20:30 A very famous artist in the Netherlands (Herman Brood) was so addicted to speed that his doctors said to him not to stop, otherwise the withdrawel would probably kill him. He still had to kick his other habits, which he couldn't unfortunatly.
I can’t find anything about that. Quitting alcohol cold Turkey will do that, but the withdrawal symptoms of hard drugs won’t kill you unless you’ve got something else going on, like an autoimmune disease or something. I also can’t find anything about his doctors telling him not to quit speed, just about him getting depressed after rehab failed and killing himself.
@@henrysmith180 This is why people say marijuana is a gateway drug (yes, I know alcohol is the most common gateway drug, I’m not here to argue). The high from weed can get very mild once you build up a tolerance. I knew a guy who also gave up weed for opiates. He OD’d last year.
These are super fun! Please keep making more. It's especially great seeing the banter, Devin asking medical questions and Mike asking legal questions...
I do appreciate Dr Mike mentioning the withdrawal issues with alcohol. I've heard of people, and know one person, who have been told by doctors to stop trying to quit. They keep ending up at the ER, organs shutting down. They literally can't stop anymore. Seriously... don't let it get that far. It's horrible.
There are ways to use medications or even controlled lower and lower dosages of alcohol to help you quit that are less dangerous than continuing to drink at the rate you are accustomed to. There are healthier and safer ways to go through withdrawal and come out the other side.
13:18 Wrong Four Seasons. He is referring to the famous Four Seasons restaurant that was located in the Seagrams Building in NYC. It closed some years ago, and the famous space is now home to two different restaurants, The Grill and The Pool.
16:58 Based on the look he gave the guy who asked the question, I'm 99% sure he did remember but didn't want to say. That look was saying "How did you get that information?"
I have Dyspraxia meaning sober I fail a field sobriety test, I'm comically bad at it. I can't even put one foot in front of the other without falling over.
Dr. Mike asking why doctors aren't held to a higher or even the same standard as the general public in terms of criminal liability is adorable, like he forgot how America works 😂
Idk why but you guys together is something amazing and special. You guys have such a respectable and sweet energy. You both love what you do and I love how kind and smart you both are!!
Love these videos featuring Legal Eagle (Devin) and Doctor Mike. We want more! You guys are incredibly passionate about your fields and are excellent to explain how it works in reality. Keep these videos coming gentlemen.
This reminds me of an episode of Scrubs where Turk and JD are on call but have drinks with a buddy. Then when they get called in, they are confronted by Dr Cox who sent them home.
I didn't see Part 1 on Dr Mikes channel because the YT feed is messed up. I'll watch it and return. Thank you for providing the link in the description.
I love when these two collaborate so much. Seeing two experts being so enthusiastic about their own fields and genuinely interested in each other's expert opinions is honestly beautiful.
4:56 points deducted for showing Cadecus, the symbol of diplomacy & peace, instead of the Rod of Asclepius, which is the actual symbol of healing & medicine & looks like this ⚕️
Devin should collaborate with Dr. Youn and Dr. Mike on the episode of Law & Order titled ,” Cut “. It deals with medicine, cosmetic surgery , medical ethics and criminal culpability.
🎤What should we react to next?
🚀Get Nebula for life! (or 40% off!) legaleagle.link/nebulaforlife
Gone Girl
Respond to tye claims that George Floyd was killed by the police officer
No link to Dr. Mike’s vid?
I LOVE Law and Order!
Also surprised to not see part 1 linked, should be the first consideration when collabing
I just like how they are both actually interested in each other's expertise. They ask each other questions.
Normal conversations work like that, mostly
Two experts with mutual respect. Something which is sadly rarely seen in public these days.
when you rise above small talk = basically god tier human being
yet seems to be the hardest thing for most people
Wholesome internet friendship 🥰
i bet they actually hate each other, they're just pretending for the views
This episode hit close to home. I used to be a bad alcoholic, drinking a pint to a liter of rum every day. When I finally accepted I had a problem and went to get treatment, I had 2 seizures from the withdrawal, along with all the other DTs. After almost 3 years spent relapsing over and over again (sobriety is HARD) I'm finally going to be 1 year sober in January!!
Congrats! I hope you're able to make it many more happy years!
Congratulations, friend! Keep up the good work and the good fight ♥
holy shit 1 liter of liquor and not wine or beer is insane!! I'm glad you didn't accidentally die and have gotten help! keep it up
Congrats! The days when you're tired or upset will be the hardest. You'll want to fall back into old habits when your willpower is at its lowest. Be strong and you'll make it!
Did they make you go cold turkey? It sounds inhumane to make a heavy drinker just stop all of a sudden. I hope they provided mental health care at the very least. Keep up the good work.
Imagine you went to court for drunk driving and your defense was "your honor, I could have still crashed if I had been sober"
I think there's an episode where that was almost exactly their defense. the defendant killed someone in a drunk driving hit and run and his defense was the area it happened in was obscured and anyone could've hit her. They're not denying they drove drunk, their stance was anyone could've ran her over regardless of their level of sobriety.
Or better yet, "my crash provided parts that were used to keep other cars running."
@@Ironlantern723 And to be fair, that is actually a solid defense, because a big part of the law in such cases is proving the mental state and circumstances of the incident. If you murder someone in a fit of rage for example, the law is going to be more lenient than if you murder someone after planning it out for months. You'll still face consequences, but the level of consequences will be different because of the circumstance.
It's actually a real and legitimate defence though...
If somebody crosses into your lane and you have a head-on, did your drink driving contribute?
If you ever hit someone while drinking and driving,the best outcome is that the other person involved was more drunk than you lol
"This is known??? He's free right now!!!" Omg Mike's reaction to finding out how badly justice was miscarried in the OJ trial was adorable, lol
Dr. Mike making everyone feel old!!
@@henrysmith180 no, he's just uninformed. I was born a year after him on the other side of the planet and know the common details about the OJ trial
@@paulmarden3301 I can't believe they used the chewbacca defence to real life, South Park predicts everything.
I was born about a year before the trial, also on the other side of the planet, and know about the trial, it is famous.
And stuff like it just keeps happening, too. Take for example Kyle Rittenhouse getting off a triple murder charge scott-free.
he shouldn't go to jail
"thanks to that little girl being murdered by me, other little kids get to live" so you're okay with murder, doctor? Seems like the easy follow-up
Hero complex.
Very typical for ER physicians.
The plot of The Last of Us in a nutshell.
I lost my shit when he said that . SHE SHOULDN'T HAVE DIED IN THE FIRST PLACE !!!! sorry for yelling I was pissed when he said that.
No kidding. That's literally a thought experiment used in ethics to argue against utilitarianism - if a doctor can save five lives using the organs from one patient, should they allow that patient to die? Most people will instinctually say no, of course not, that's horrible, which non-utilitarians use to argue that our moral instincts reject the idea. (And before anybody starts furiously typing: sorry, but no, I don't want to hear your opinion about how you could actually justify it/why this proves utilitarian philosophers are soulless monsters. I'm just saying that "okay, I was responsible for someone's death, but look at all the good that came out of it!" is a really bad move for someone trying to convince a jury that they shouldn't go to jail.)
"Cool motive; still murder."
-Peralta
Re: OJ Simpson getting free
He was of course acquitted on criminal charges, but when the families of Ron and Nicole took him to civil court for wrongful death, he was absolutely decimated. The jury unanimously stopped short of saying "yeah, he did it", and the judge ordered him to pay $33,500,000, which he was unable to. He ended up selling many personal possessions, defaulted on the mortgage on his house, and filed for bankruptcy, at which point the Goldman family made claims and won the rights to OJ's horrid book _If I Did It,_ which they republished under the new title, _If I Did It: Confessions of the Killer._ Note that as a final screw you to the man who took their loved one, the Goldmans made the "if" on the dust jacket so tiny that it appears to read _I Did It._
All of this is to say that OJ Simpson may not have been convicted, but there was some justice in that he ended up losing absolutely everything.
And then he got time for another crime, which he wouldn't have been in a position to commit but for his debts.
Not only did they make the "If" small, they put it inside the "I" of "I did it" and changed the colour so it's nearly impossible to see. The "I did it" is also stretched to 25% of the cover, so it's literally impossible to see "if" at a distance.
The state of California were idiots for letting the accused have interaction with the evidence, but they were climbing uphill in the mud after the crappy forensics and chain of evidence issues.
I thought OJ already made the If smaller in the first place, but I didn't know about all that.
Also if I remember correctly
The main reason OJ was acquitted of his criminal charges is because basically, the prosecution completely flubbed their case and failed to conclusively prove any of the points they were making
I can't imagine the face of the doctor's attorney when he actually tried to justify the wrongful death of his patient basically saying "Yeah, I may or may have not killed this little girl while being drunk, but hey, at least other people got her organs so it wasn't entirely bad"
That is single handedly the most incriminatory statement if not blantant confession you can say on the strand
It reminds me of the defense in episode 1 of She-Hulk:
"Yes, some people died, but my client had the right to protect his interests, and he did so in any way he could, including killing his own employees. It's unfortunate, but it was his right to do so."
If I were an attorney, and my client said any of the things that doctor did on the stand, I would immediately ask the judge for permission to withdraw as counsel.
@@OptimusPhillip I would not, but I would play the angle afterwords, of my client did not mean that, he is very stressed, he is a troubled soul. I mean the drinking shows he not doing too, and he thus saying poorly thought out things, because he panicking and not thinking clearly
Prehaps he should take six months in prison, plus several years of community service, mandatory consoling, AA meetings, to show his dedication to learn from the tragedy and improve his life. Of course he be willing to pay ten % of wages until the victims got one million dollers, he is a remorseful man.
Basically try to get some kind of deal to get something that will not destroy my client life, while making him look as regretful, pitiful as possible. Not a lawyer.
"Is everyone covering for him because he has something over everyone's head?"
Dr. Mike just perfectly described my former principal who was also, and continues to be, a barely functioning alcoholic.
Its the united we stand divided we fall thing. Each person being threatened feels alone and is right that if they spoke out they would be ruined. if all of them stood up and reported him, it goes the other way entirely.
To be honest though, if the alcoholic principal has something over everyone's head, then I'm more alarmed at what the hell is going on with the rest of those educators.
@@kieranhair37people in power have access to compromising information
Actually, abuse of people and abuse of substances is part and parcel of the same pattern of abusive behaviour. People who abuse others abuse substances to make themselves "sick" so they can play the victim when they get called out for being a bad person. "Oh, I can't help it. I'm not responsible for my actions. It was the alcohol/drugs not me." Throw in "and I can finger a mid level narcotics trafficker" and an "addict" can get away with murder.
@@kieranhair37that depends which country you are living. In e.g Russia/North Korea…this would be not necessarily related to education, but could be political.
“I would destroy this guy on cross” was my reaction to every Law & Order clip I’ve seen 😂 love this collab sm
"I would crucify him on a cross!"
Sounds kinky, I'm suddenly interested in Law
"...and im a line cook"
-people, probably
I thought this said “I would destroy this guy on the cross” 😂
I’ve witnessed my own kid brother suffer from DT on a road trip. It started with him badly shaking and complaining about a severe headache, light sensitivity and feeling hot. Then he got quiet, and about a half an hour later, he gasped, stiffened, foamed at the mouth and was out cold. Our dad was with us so we pulled over, got him out of the car and laying on his back on the side of the road.
Scared me nearly to death. I called 911 and he was out in an ambulance and sent off to the hospital where he was treated. A year later he was finally in detox and then went to rehab. He’s been sober for about 8 years now. I’m so proud of him for all the work he’s done to get from where he was to where he is now.
My mother had a dentist once that hurt her and two others while 'attempting' to practice while under the influence. In our state, at the time, if a medical or dental provider did this but entered rehab, the state shielded them and spared their licenses. Our local DA launched an effort to change the laws. Some years later, that same dentist was caught selling nitrous "shots" to local teens. Finally, the state HAD to remove his license due to tge law changes.
The fact that they can be protected simply by going to rehab is ridiculous. Particularly because while rehab can absolutely help some people, there's also a lot of people who end up relapsing or are only going due to court mandate and have every intention of continuing once they've been "cleared". For any profession where lives or injury to others are a real risk, there shouldn't be any room for a second chance when it comes to an abuse of drugs or alcohol, since if they do relapse, the risk to innocent people is too great.
I hate that like button in comments like this. The fact that this happened I really hate. I do love that a positive change was made.
Doesn’t seem like it was the law changes that got his license revoked, rather the violation of an entirely separate law that did it.
"I object!"
"On what grounds?!"
"IT'S DEVASTATING TO MY CASE!"
"I object!"
"On what grounds?!"
"I strenuously object!"
I love studio c too 😂
"Overruled."
"GOOD CALL!"
"Hell hath no fury like a lawyer after lunch break" - I think that's deserves to be on a Legal Eagle merch badge!
This could be the basis for an entire UA-cam channel and I would pay money to watch it.
There almost has to be enough episodes over the 90 years worth of law and order spinoffs and such that include both medicine and law to get at least a seasons worth of youtube videos. I mean real medicine inclusion not just "Hey they asked this doc on the stand this, is that true?" type stuff.
i was a TA and co-facilitator for a Medical Ethics class for first year Med Students. we did a week on TV depictions of medicine, for example, how heart attacks are presented as something you can leave the hospital from the same day, if you even needed to go to the hospital at all. turns out, the majority of people who have heart attacks require hospital stays and it is a live altering event.
@@lilunette9319the worst part is there's no oversight. You can just put anything on TV/movie/media and alter any one player or group to fit the narrative. Hell most of the things on TV that are based on true events still have to use entertainment elements in order to make the story more watchable. Lots of dramatisation! I watched narcos and was shocked to find out a lot of it just didn't go that way.
My uncle had the "widow maker" aortic tear. Fortunately, he called my aunt when it was just starting (to tell her he wasn't going to be able to make it out to the fair with her and was going to take a nap), and SHE called the ambulance because that was so unusual for him. He was airlifted to a major hospital with a great Cardiologist, and it saved his life...but we were ALL shocked at how destroyed his memory and mental capacity was for months after. Physically he bounced back a little faster, but his brain was oxygen starved for longer that he could compensate for. He's almost back to normal now, but still has some memory issues.
@@lilunette9319 we also did a paper called "My Leaky Liver" about how doctors (usually the specialists) are the same energy as House, or try to emulate House (could be the higher intelligent are more likely to be on the spectrum: i was told they dont fail the C students because they tend to be far more personable and much better GPs). in this paper, this lady talked about how her doctor lectured her on having a "leaky liver" and asking things like "why is your liver doing this?" it was enlightening for how people have to be trained and have to condition themselves, to make sure they are humane and personable to people in times of crisis.
The symptoms of heart attacks also don't always match the TV/movie depictions. On TV or in the movies, someone clutches their chest and collapses.
When my mother-in-law had her heart attack, she felt like she had indigestion. Nothing she took helped her "indigestion" and she started looking pale and like she was going to collapse into her food. It was her birthday and the day she retired so we were out to eat. She refused to go to the hospital until we threatened to call 911 and have her dragged there in front of everyone in the restaurant.
It's really frightening how many people get their knowledge of medical conditions from "this is how TV and movies depict it."
I feel this deeply, but with regard to childbirth. 😂 The ways medical shows and movies present labor and delivery are so incredibly unrealistic that they should have a disclaimer. No wonder so many women feel overwhelmed and unprepared once they are in the hospital having a baby 😢
I remember when Legal Eagle and Doctor Mike both first started. From the moment I saw them they felt like kindered spirits, similar motivations but different fields. To see them collaborating is such a wonderful thing to see 😊
Yeah, I immediately felt there was similarity, so when I saw doctor mike i had a feeling they did collab & i was correct.
6:05 I think the most objectionable thing here is that bailiff leaning against the wall while a lawyer enters the well without gaining permission first.
Needs more tackling!
Devin keeps telling us the bailiff will tackle you, but I saw no tackling! Strike his testimony from the record! 😂
@@KBRoller I have seen Quorra (shudders) answers that suggest the well isn't as sacred in some courts, but it's still one of those things where you're better off erring on the side of respect. That said, I'd easily take Devin's statement over some Quorra answer.
Is it possible for a judge to give blanket "counsel may enter the well at liberty unless I change my mind" order?
@@michalsoukup1021 Potentially, but a judge probably wouldn't risk a lawyer or plaintiff deciding to get violent when an opportunity presents itself.
fun fact about the whole "dont drink and cut people" vs "delirium tremens" thing: when my mother was a nurse in training about 30 years ago, the chief of surgery was actually one of those where everyone knew they needed 2 shots before being able to hold a scalpel without shaking, and the official unofficial policy was "i know nothing, i see nothing" because they were just the most experienced surgeon they had and didn't wanna lose them...
Oh yeah, I know about that thing. My hands are also steadier after a drink or two, it's interesting
@@toolatetothestory You wouldn't necessarily need to be an alcoholic for that to happen. Alcohol is nervous system depressant. If you've got tremors from some any sort of overactive nervous system issue, or from being on a stimulant, it might very well help stabilize your hands. That's also part of why some people with bipolar self-medicate with alcohol: it can take them down a few notches when they're manic, and let them do things like sleep. Needless to say, though, it's not the best treatment method for insomnia, nor hand tremors.
In addition to the "strenuous" objection there's another thing in common with A Few Good Men: the prestige and reputation of the suspect being used as a roadblock. The residents unwilling to challenge someone with so much seniority, and the defence attorney highlighting Dr Raza's inexperience and (presumably racist perception of) inferior schooling, is a lot like being threatened with sanctions for accusing Jessop of misconduct because of his service record and political connections. Both are probably overplayed for drama.
There's one scene I always liked in this episode for trying not to think so linearly: The DAs conclude they've got Auster drinking like a fish, they've got him injecting the opioids... and yet this isn't quite enough to prove he crossed the line from unfortunate mistake to criminal recklessness. But then Robinette suggests another way to look at it: If Auster was aware of his alcoholism, drinking before work is itself criminally reckless. "The crime did not take place in the emergency room, it took place at the cocktail party." This is why the later trial is about digging up evidence of his knowing he's an alcoholic.
Glad I'm not the only one picking up on that racist feeling question. They even had the guy pause before answering like he was embarrassed.
I don't know whether that school is good or not, but I wager neither does the attorney or the jury.
I felt the racism thing too. I haven’t watched a ton of L&O but I noticed they play on racism a lot in the episodes I’ve seen both for entertainment (a lot of the characters are basic stereotypes) but also in the courtroom for good and bad.
My grandma always tells the story of when my mom broke her arm as a kid, and when she met with the surgeon who was going to operate on her he was reeking of alcohol and she refused surgery on my mom, but the nurses brushed it off saying thats when he's at the top of his game, almost syaing "be grateful he's drunk and not sober craving being drunk, then that would be the problem"... This was back in the late 80s, I dont know if he practiced medicine for long or if other people brought it up too
My parents are both functioning alcoholics. Fortunately not doctors (or lawyers), and beyond the morning Bloody Mary and the noon-time cran-vodka, they did most of their drinking in the evening after work. *lol* Both of them have been recommended by their doctors to STOP drinking--my mother has dementia, my step-father has a rare autoimmune clotting disorder. I think my step-father must have fessed up to his doctor, because that did change to "OK...no more than 2 beers a day". My mom gets her wine/alcohol seltzer every day. I think at this stage in life that's the best we can do without causing even worse effects. My brother and I also are alcoholics--his actualized and mine in potential (I ALWAYS crave a drink) But I avoided the worst of it by realizing the family problem early. I didn't drink at all until I was 25 and had a "spotter" in my husband (who doesn't drink), and recently got my own doctor's note to stop drinking because I have Ulcerative Colitis. My brother and I both been completely sober now for over a year, supporting each other in our sobriety
Keep going!! ❤
You're doing great! Congrats and godspeed on your sobriety.
Congratulations! It’s hard being stronger than genetics, but you are
I also congratulate you and your brother on your sobriety. It's not easy.
Congrats on your sobriety! I had almost 10 years, had a relapse but back with 180 days today!
watching the two parts back to back really highlights their different styles of editing. dr mike with the gifs that pop into frame and legaleagle with the freeze frames, arrows, and lil annotations. they're not dissimilar jokes and they both pop in a lot of definitions and fun facts, but the distinct ways they appear matches their respective energies so well haha
The thing about judges who recently are giving lighter sentences was debunked - it was a data artefact caused because judges packed all the short cases (which are usually easy convictions/rejections) just before lunch.
Thanks - that's actually good to know.
Oh that's wonderful news!! Thank goodness, the whole thing was just so awful to think about, consider the consequences. I'm so glad it turned out to be a misinterpretation of the data!
Why do they do that? Does it let them stay later if a more complex case runs long?
@@omidm.935 yeah. Like if it's 11:45 and lunch is at noon, they'll just pick out a simple case they can finish getting through in time for lunch (and then get back to the complex cases after their lunch break).
That only raises further questions
I really enjoy these collaborations. As someone who isnt an expert in medicine or law in any fashion but is surrounded by ER fans' medical expertise and Law and Order fans' legal expertise, it's really nice to have people who actually do have expertise and know how to explain it (dumb it down) so us non-experts and fake experts can understand. Kudos
I love whenever something super inaccurate or ridiculous happens on screen and one of these two gets shocked or offended 😂 It's why I love these collabs.
As a programmer, I can relate. I've lost count of the number of times some TV show or movie has depicted people using computers in ways that are totally unrealistic.
Stuff like a person trying to stop an hacker but rapidly typing on a keyboard and then a second person rapidly types ON THE SAME KEYBOARD at the same time. Nevermind that you don't stop a hacker like that. Two people typing on the same keyboard would get gibberish, not Extra Hacker Stopping Skillz.
...Its almost as if they planned it that way lol 😆
@@jasonlevine2711- That 2 People on One Keyboard moment brought to us by people who use scriptwriting programs and so should _know_ that's impossible.
@@jasonlevine2711lmfao, that scene was in NCIS, right? 😹
Only done mock trial’s for school but I resonated with LegalEagle’s “I would destroy him on cross”. Cross is honestly my favourite part of a mock trial!
Fun OJ Fact: He stopped taking his anti-inflammatory drugs to make his hands swell so the glove would not fit as well as doing strenuous hand exercises for weeks prior to really seal the con deal.
I could have a snugly fitting pair of leather gloves, get them wet, let them dry, and then be unable to put them on again if you let me wear latex gloves, spread my fingers wide, and shrug with an idiotic grin.
Wasn't it also the fact that leather shrinks when exposed to liquids (in that case blood) and so the gloves he tried on could've been the real ones but it likely shrank over the time of trial?
@@phoqueme That's what I was saying to the family when that aspect of the trial came on the news.
Seems like a murderer should just leaves gloves that don't fit at the crime scene
@@MichaelWutsch Misdirecting evidence!
Another person's driver's license, blood from a farm animal, a license plate from the private vehicle of a police officer in another jurisdiction...
I want to strenuously express my appreciation for this collaboration.
20:18 "If I quit cold-turkey I'm worried that the cumulative hangover would actually kill me."
Sterling Archer, who was apparently right
He is right. Delirium tremens can kill you.
There are more ways than cold-turkey to quit doing something, Sterling.
The scary thing is that he right about obscure details a lot.
@@MonkeyJedi99 ☝️
A lawyer and a doctor working together to tackle a medical/legal drama once again. Great collaboration!❤
I think my favorite part of the episode is the look on his face when he couldn't touch his nose. The look of realization on his face was great. It would be nice if it were more like that in real life but denial and addiction are powerful forces.
It established that the guy actually believed that his drinking had no effect on his actions. As the guys commented, he did not even try to correct himself when he could not touch his nose on the first try. He really was deluded enough to think that after drinking so much alcohol less than an hour earlier, he would not be impaired.
20:24 I’ve seen this in the movie “The Last Samurai”, when Captain Nathan Algren is forcibly prevented from drinking alcohol while a captive/POW of the Samurai by the sister of the Samurai leader while recovering from his injuries in battle at her house. He starts going through withdrawal symptoms and seems to be in agony and going half crazy while shaking like an earthquake.
Also in the OJ Simpson case, instead of using a new pair of the same gloves in the same size, the prosecution used the same gloves, which had been covered in blood and were stiff and thus did not fit as they would have before the crime was committed.
Yeah as others have stated the prosecutors screwed up really really badly.
And as mentioned in the video, since that glove was evidence he had to wear a latex glove underneath, further worsening the fit
@@IceWolfLokiIt worked for the defense, since it created reasonable doubt and sunk the prosecutor's case faster than the Titanic
A new pair likely won't be admittable, the defense could say that it's not the exact same size, especially when it was leather.
19:00 not to mention the glove was found to be unproperly stored in an environment that was determined to cause the leather to shrink
We need more collaboration with Dr Mike and legal eagle EDIT: wow this got a lot of likes
Agreed!
Yes. Yes indeed.
Facts
For sure!
There are doctors with a lousy or non-existent sense of humor --- and then there's Dr. Mike. Encore, Dude. Encore!
The easy defence would be that since he is drinking so often they even have an inside joke about it in the hospital and no incident has occurred in years of him practicing like this, it suggests he is a high functioning alcoholic, i.e. is perfectly capable of performing care even under the influence of alcohol.
I think there was an earlier scene where the investigators were going over cases where people in his care did die hence the testimony about the organ transplants
The cut in for the Four Seasons menu crushed me LOL 😂😂
The thing about this that's so interesting is Dr. Mike hearing from a lawyer, wait so there's laws specifically saying you can't drink and drive but there isn't one saying you can't drink and practice medicine, that of a drunk doctor in a hospital goes down to reckless endangerment vs killing someone while driving drunk as vehicular manslaughter. And the brilliant part of the episode is the look of horror from the doctor when he fails the test right in court that, "oh my god I never knew it was this bad"
I love the epic teamup! You two should get together for a Simpsons reaction / debate. The topic: Who's worse at their job, Lionel Hutz or Dr. Nick?
And as it happens, they do have the same debut story: Bart Gets Hit By A Car!
Dr. Nick, because Lionel Hutz has never lost a case.
Why not both?
Well Dr. Nick encouraged Homer to gain weight for the sole reason to qualify as disabled. Lionel Hutz is just dumb. He's rumored to not wear Indochino also.
Gotta be Dr. Nick
4:57 For those whom care, that isn't the Rod of Asclepius which is associated with medicine that symbol is Caduceus or the Rod of Hermes and is used for mercantile endeavors. Even some hospitals make the mistake, but the Rod of Asclepius only has one snake wrapping around the rod and no wings.
14:46 "Hell hath no fury like a lawyer after lunch break." oh, i love this quote so much lmaoo
I think you two should ABSOLUTELY review the series "Dr Death", it absolutely STUNNED me it was based on a true story!
EDIT: For those who don't know, Christopher "Dr death" Duntsch was the first ever doctor to be convicted of murder and GBH when it was ruled he intentionally maimed his patients, with a whopping 33/38 of his routine surgeries ending in death or serious complications such as paralysis. Examples included: placing screws into muscle instead of bone and insisting they were correct when nurses pointed out his error (or putting them in the wrong vertebrae ENTIRELY), slicing open a patients throat during surgery on his neck vertebrae and stitching it closed with a medical sponge packed in his throat causing severe infection, continuing to operate when a patient was bleeding out after cutting an artery despite colleagues warnings, and cutting through nerves that were no where NEAR where he was supposed to be operating. To this day, no one is knows if it was because he was (allegedly) snorting a cocktail of drugs right before surgery, or, if he was INTENTIONALLY butchering patients out of psychopathy (with one victim being his OWN roommate/best friend). It really has to be seen to be believed!
I listened to a podcast about this before he was convicted (and of course started reading up obsessively on his horrific actions), and then the update after he was convicted. And later the documentary that was released about it. Absolutely mindblowingly atrocious human being. It pains the heart to think of his victims who were maimed, and their families, as well as his colleagues and the people who were reporting him and trying to stop him, and the batshit insane bureaucracy that allowed it to keep happening and just bounced him around, instead of protecting the patients by revoking his licence & ending his career; the utter cruelty & injustice. :(
@@AylaMarianna Do you think he INTENTIONALLY maimed his patients due to either psychopathy or a desire to be famous (remember that email he sent saying he would get more recognition if he killed people as opposed to the recognition of being a good surgeon? But then again, would he INTENTIONALLY paralyse his best friend?) OR, was he just SO out of it on drugs that he either couldn't tell, or didn't care he was performing poorly (mixed with the extreme arrogance to insist he wasn't)?
@@SarahJSweetheart I unfortunately think it kind of became intentional, but more out of negligence? Because I think he has difficulties viewing other people as real: we are like NPC's in a computer game.
He was trying to perform above his skill-level, and when that didn't work, then "meh, whatever, might as well do the surgical equivalent of scribbling out text".
Maybe "lashing out a bit in anger/frustration" like a kid throwing away a game controller (but WITH A SCALPEL. On SOMEONE'S SPINE 😭), etc.
And then the substance abuse too... like a drunk & unskilful driver who is unable to care and needs to be stopped.
@@SarahJSweetheart Psychopaths are generally narcissistic, btw.
'Psychopath' as a term used by us layfolk is generally attributed to particularly abusive individuals with more serious & extreme negative symptoms/behaviour (belonging to the same cluster of personality disorders: B).
It's a spectrum, and most people don't fit within extremes.
So when he-an exception in the cluster B spectrum-couldn't actually live up to the reputation he desired (at least, not among his peers) because he wasn't competent-enough, well... so it's not a question of "either/or", as his decisions were likely influenced by both.
Honestly, functional/"mild psychopathy" kinda lends itself well to fields like surgery, first responders, etc.:
you probably won't have to deal that much with people in ways that would require extended displays of compassion/empathy (hard to fake) as you're primarily like a "human mechanic" or focused on getting people to survive long-enough to make it to the next group of people (e.g. transport to an emergency department of a hospital), or just dealing with idiots who you can hopefully manipulate to act less self-destructively (like some benevolent manipulator who gets to practice their skills on the toughest, most hard-to-crack of human subjects 😹), or simply ignorant people who just need the correct information/knowledge explained to them in an understandable way in order to feel comfortable and be safer towards themselves and others; you're unlikely to "bring work home" (mentally), so you can sleep better at night (or whenever you sleep XD) and are less likely to burn out emotionally; and your fear-response is inherently diminished!
@@AylaMarianna I wonder what that says about me, considering I wanted to be a surgeon before I became chronically ill X3 (ironically, with very severe scoliosis, leading to spinal fusion surgery - one of surgeries he regularly performed on patients, or rather, subjected victims to! Although, I wanted to be a reconstructive surgeon in order to help people)
I would LOVE to see this become a series!!! This is so great. More please
I rely on Leagal Eagle's commentaries and explanation of all our political craziness but I had really missed his lighter fare. Plus, how awesome was early Law & Order?! Great episode to pick for analysis! 🎉
I can't believe how young Chris Noth looks!!!
5:55 You can always count on a Harvard graduate to mention that they attended Harvard at least three times a day.
I LOVE LOVE LOVE that you guys approached this IN A LAW AND ORDER IDEA!
Dr.Mike gave his opinion with the police investigation section (Law)..... THEN Devin did the ORDER section of the episode!
THANK YOU !!! (As a huge fan of the show and BOTH OF YOUR VIDEOS THIS WAS AMAZING!)
"These are their opinions."
The abrupt and flat delivery on the line made me laugh Calpico up and out my nose. Great job guys.
My work buddy was a heavy alcoholic, up until he had heart attacks, and finally quit.
As he put it: "Quitting drinking was the worst time of my life."
And he also kicked smoking cigarettes too. Anyone who quits drinking, you get my respect and hope that you handle it well.
It’s so fun to see this collab. These guys are two of the funniest professionals on UA-cam
I always really enjoy these colabs. These two seem like they have a genuine friendship, and interest in each other's fields. Looking forward to lots more!
Please do more of these, you are a great team.
2 of my favorite you-tubers! this collaboration is pure gold!!! We need much more of this you guys rock. P.S. on my way to nebula to watch the rest...
This is super weird for me! Where I live, if a doctor practices medicine under the influence of any mental altering drug, with the exceptions of prescribed ones (and even in those, there are exceptions) they can lose their licence in a heartbeat, and that's not even including if a patient dies or not.
As someone who lives in the US, I'm curious: Can people easily sue doctors where you live?
I'm wondering if part of the differences has to do with the interactions with other laws. Not that I'm defending our system, I think it's very broken, but I'm curious about some of the reasons for thing.
You have to remember a couple of things about this. One it is a TV series and things are exaggerated for drama or they flat out don;t follow the rules of reality. Second the doctor in question is a highly respected and well connected individual so much so that a recommendation from him can make or break careers. It may be the law that they lose their licensee but I can guarantee you there always exceptions based on the resources of said doctor or the potential value the doctor provides.
@@kyubbiman2255keep in mind that medical licensure is not an arm of the state prosecutor’s office, it’s a separate regulatory agency. I don’t know if anything about medical licensure has to do with the law, directly. Maybe it does, but in particular this episode is about prosecuting a crime (which may result in the loss of a medical license, with the medical board citing a conviction as proof of misconduct), not a review of the licensure.
@@drcatspaw I think there's a cultural difference, yeah, people can sue a doctor but the lawsuit can only be upheld after a medical and ethics board reviews the case (nobody on this board can even know the doctor in question). Maybe an example would help: We got a call about a gentleman having heart issues, and he has a cardiac arrest in the ambulance. You know, CPR, drugs, defibs, the whole show. Only after we brought him back and was in the hospital, I learned he was DNR (do not resuscitate). Due to the nature of the event, me not knowing the DNR and administering the same quality of care of someone w/o a DNR, I wasn't liable to any lawsuits, should the person tried to. So no, lawsuits against doctors aren't common UNLESS there's clearly is gross negligence by a medical staff member.
@SuiLagadema Yea, unfortunately it seems that my country leaves such things to civil suits. A horrible system. But it explains why the booze wasn't an open and shut case in the show since it was a criminal case.
Just my opinion, I'm by no means an expert.
I loved the chemistry in this episode! Instantly one of my favorite duos.
Just throwing it out there, you guys are missing a wasted opportunity. You both could have sports teams composed of doctors and lawyers that could regularly compete against each other for charity, Eagles vs Bears.
You mean like an epic rap battle of history sort of deal?
@@RandomPerson-vq9kw I mean I was thinking more like dodgeball but hey why not lol.
@@jaynoir8937 Oh, whoops
Don't you mean Stellas vs Bears?
Having Greene pop in "Did somebody say SPACE LASERS?" killed me.
Love when these two are doing an episode together. They got great chemistry and insight to learn from each other. As a viewer, it’s entertaining. I watched BOTH of their episodes!
I am an opioid addict currently taking medication to stop DTs, they are horrific and life threatening. However I am 11 months clean and should be able to quit taking said medication within the next year! I tried quiting cold turkey and that was a painful hellish experience. So when the doctor said they are bad, trust they are horrific. Vomiting, convulsions, sweats. fever, and much much more.
I hope your doing well :)
This was really great to see the episode from both angles! Loved the little pop up facts too!
"he's free right now"
Time fixed that
the glove in the Simpson trial was also kept in a freezer i believe (leather glove) - so many facets that caused it to not fit
Loved Dr Mike just barely having this realization that the OJ trial & glove bit were absurdly poorly conducted. Yeah man, dude did it.
@@OldManYellsAtClouds Ah didn't realize Mike's background. Still, not mocking him it's just kind of a crazy thing to consider that we've all just kind of gotten used to the idea that OJ is definitely a murderer who fully got away with it, and he's experiencing that realization for the first time.
Love our dystopia.
@@hoid9407- Most times, it's the ex, and the only reason it turned into the fiasco it did was because OJ was famous and the prosecution missed some beats. Bugliosi wrote his take on the case.
I know you are both busy with your amazing channels. I do think it would be fun for a different doctor/lawyer combination to make content like this regularly. It's fun to watch.
I like the specificity of "don't practice medicine under the influence of alcohol". Time to experiment what substances i can practice under the influence of
Odds are there are laws to the effect of "death as a result of diminished faculties". So any substance that reduces your ability to think and reason would fall under that. He'll, stopping taking a medication could cause that as well, when I've messed up and missed a does of my prescription I get extremely dizzy, so that could contribute to an accident for me if I was , for example, driving.
Dihydrogenmonoxide
Ritalin or Adderall, maybe? I assume there are physicians with ADHD.
Vicodin, if you're Doctor House
Under the influence of caffeine is a serious problem in medicine.
The Pakistani doctor's cross-examination was intended to cast him as unreliable to the jury. Hate to say it, but there are otherwise intelligent people in the United States who would think someone trained in Peshawar can't possibly be as knowledgeable and competent as someone from the lower quarter of their class at a lower-tier school in the U.S.
18:58 In the O.J. Simpson case, speculation whirled up that O.J. stopped taking his medicine to alleviate inflammation a couple of weeks before he tried the glove -- "If it don't fit, don't convict."
I love seeing collabs like this!! It's so cool seeing all the aspects of expertise that can be applied :)
20:30 A very famous artist in the Netherlands (Herman Brood) was so addicted to speed that his doctors said to him not to stop, otherwise the withdrawel would probably kill him. He still had to kick his other habits, which he couldn't unfortunatly.
I can’t find anything about that. Quitting alcohol cold Turkey will do that, but the withdrawal symptoms of hard drugs won’t kill you unless you’ve got something else going on, like an autoimmune disease or something. I also can’t find anything about his doctors telling him not to quit speed, just about him getting depressed after rehab failed and killing himself.
I saw someone who gave up marijuana for meth. For real.
@@henrysmith180 This is why people say marijuana is a gateway drug (yes, I know alcohol is the most common gateway drug, I’m not here to argue). The high from weed can get very mild once you build up a tolerance. I knew a guy who also gave up weed for opiates. He OD’d last year.
as a nursing student who want to go into law after graduation, videos like these always make me so happy
These are super fun! Please keep making more. It's especially great seeing the banter, Devin asking medical questions and Mike asking legal questions...
Nice chemistry guys ! I love seeing these two having fun - while explaining stuff. And Legal Eagle, I too get your references and feel old ;)
Here's the collab I was waiting for
But they did this years ago?
@@teliotsyup. several times.
They've done it before
I didn't know I needed it, I'm glad it happened
Bear cameo FTW
I do appreciate Dr Mike mentioning the withdrawal issues with alcohol. I've heard of people, and know one person, who have been told by doctors to stop trying to quit. They keep ending up at the ER, organs shutting down. They literally can't stop anymore.
Seriously... don't let it get that far. It's horrible.
There are ways to use medications or even controlled lower and lower dosages of alcohol to help you quit that are less dangerous than continuing to drink at the rate you are accustomed to. There are healthier and safer ways to go through withdrawal and come out the other side.
these guys have such natural chemistry together, makes for a very enjoyable watch
Please dont ever stop these collabs😭❤️ i love both of you so much!!!!
13:18 Wrong Four Seasons. He is referring to the famous Four Seasons restaurant that was located in the Seagrams Building in NYC. It closed some years ago, and the famous space is now home to two different restaurants, The Grill and The Pool.
16:58 Based on the look he gave the guy who asked the question, I'm 99% sure he did remember but didn't want to say. That look was saying "How did you get that information?"
Yes! Love these two together. They are so knowledgeable and so at ease with each other. Bravo! Encore!
I literally love your collabs. I’ve never really watched yall before, but I keep going back and forth between channels for these two parters. So good
I have Dyspraxia meaning sober I fail a field sobriety test, I'm comically bad at it. I can't even put one foot in front of the other without falling over.
Do you have that listed on your license? I’m afraid what would happen to you if you got pulled over.
@@ferretyluv they don't do field sobriety tests in my country luckily, only breathalysers.
@@Alex-cw3rz- Still might be a good idea to have that listed, if possible.
Love you guys working together on these, you should absolutely keep doing more!
Dr. Mike asking why doctors aren't held to a higher or even the same standard as the general public in terms of criminal liability is adorable, like he forgot how America works 😂
„He‘s a terrible doctor!"
Please tell me that this is officially taught in law school as the "Jenna Ellis defense"
Ammerica works?
@@sopcannonit stumbles along like an alcoholic who should be dead or comatose but SOMEHOW isn’t.
It's still a good question!
@@tricksterjoy9740 the biggest economy in the world that the haters won't shut up about, sounds like a star to me.
Idk why but you guys together is something amazing and special. You guys have such a respectable and sweet energy. You both love what you do and I love how kind and smart you both are!!
Love these videos featuring Legal Eagle (Devin) and Doctor Mike. We want more! You guys are incredibly passionate about your fields and are excellent to explain how it works in reality. Keep these videos coming gentlemen.
You and Dr Mike are such a great content duo, immaculate vibes, wealth of knowledge and humble kings
This reminds me of an episode of Scrubs where Turk and JD are on call but have drinks with a buddy. Then when they get called in, they are confronted by Dr Cox who sent them home.
You and Dr Mike are my favorite UA-camrs and have been for years. And I loved Law and Order.
LOVE this.
“Objection, Aunt Minnie!” 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I love this collaboration.
I follow both of your channels Devon and Mike.
14:45
"Hell hath no fury like a lawyer after lunch break."
I'm dying!!😂😂😂
I didn't see Part 1 on Dr Mikes channel because the YT feed is messed up. I'll watch it and return. Thank you for providing the link in the description.
I love these crossovers with Doctor Mike! I recently found Doctor Mike through Legal Eagle and I been binge watching ever since 😆
17:24 “A Few Good Men” was a play that was first performed in 1989 - so a year before this episode.
I love when these two collaborate so much. Seeing two experts being so enthusiastic about their own fields and genuinely interested in each other's expert opinions is honestly beautiful.
This was amazing. u guys seem so natural together
4:56 points deducted for showing Cadecus, the symbol of diplomacy & peace, instead of the Rod of Asclepius, which is the actual symbol of healing & medicine & looks like this ⚕️
I've been wanting Legal Eagle to cover a Season 1 episode. Didn't expect it to be a cross over! So glad.
A good looking lawyer and a good looking doctor.
Lady Justice is blind indeed.
am I horrible for hoping something happened backstage? 😁
@@xenostim Love is blind too, so he saw nothing.
edit: Allegedly.
I'm glad that I'm not. 🤩
Devin should collaborate with Dr. Youn and Dr. Mike on the episode of Law & Order titled ,” Cut “. It deals with medicine, cosmetic surgery , medical ethics and criminal culpability.
We need more of you two together!!!