Our Most Played Game of 2023 is PvP & ALMOST Perfect | The Battle of Versailles Review
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- Опубліковано 25 лип 2024
- Some of our favourite games have taught us something new about the world - and with The Battle of Versailles we got to learn so much about one of the most important moments in fashion. In 1973 the world of fashion was changed when the US impressed the French (and the world) by winning a runway battle. In this game you play as either the US or France and relive the competition through head-to-head card play from asymmetric decks. This one quickly became our most played game of 2023!
For more game information: boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/3...
Timestamps
00:00 Introduction
00:20 What it's about (Theme)
02:27 What you're doing (Mechanics)
09:13 It's SO thematic!!!
14:02 The tug-of-war tension
17:03 Journey from 10 to 15 to 20 plays
18:22 The imbalance
23:02 Our ratings & wrap up
Thanks for stopping by! We're Amy & Maggie aka ThinkerThemer. We're an Australian couple with two very different perspectives of what makes a great board game - Amy (Thinker) is all about the mechanics and enjoys tight, competitive games, and Maggie (Themer) is all about the storytelling and the theme of the game, and the 'world' that the designer is trying to create. Subscribe to our channel to hear us talk about these two elements of a game, and how well integrated we feel these are in delivering a cohesive and wonderful game experience.
#boardgames #tabletopgames #thinkerthemer ❤🏳️🌈🇦🇺
That's crazy that the publisher doesn't seem to mind; balance perceptions should improve with repeat plays, not get worse
Yay a Thinker Themer video. I always love your videos and was glad I got to take a picture with you two at Dice Tower West. I love theme and mechanics, that is probably why this is one of my favorite channels on UA-cam.
Your enthusiasm had a great influence on me backing this game - I have now received it and cannot wait to dive into it with my wife...I will play France ;)
Oh LOVE that you bring us lesser known / lesser talked about games! Thanks! Hope I can find a way / place to buy this eventually in Canada….
Wow this sounds really cool! Have a great week Amy and Maggie! Cis
Sounds very cool. I was always sort of interested in Pret-a-Porter, just as something very different from my usual themes (punching Cthulhu in cyberspace!?) It never came to be, but good to see this. Great review as always.
Gamefound campaign for English language version begins 7 December. Hopefully they'll take your critique to heart and add in that (optional?) rule or card that balances the game!
What about the people who already bought it though?
Awesome, I've been following this game for ages hoping it would be good. So glad that it is! Bummer about the balance.
Thanks for the video. Trying to learn this game to teach it at a Con.
This sounds like a perfect example of what 'historical games' can be. Something that uses a topic as its centrepiece rather than just a window dressing. Of course wargames have been doing this for years, but that is not everyone's cup of tea and there is so much other history out their to explore. There certainly seems to be a trend this way branching out of that space; I am thinking about Pax games, Watergate, Votes for Women, several science based games recently...... I hope it continues.
I like to think of a history bookself in a book store, only a percentage of this is military history so there must be ton's of other fantastic history out their that can be turned into games!
Thanks Amy and Maggie! I love good tug of war games, and this theme is sooo interesting. It'll be a definite buy for me, cheers!!
Looks like a perfect thematic gem, which suits me.
What house rule would you suggest to balance the game?
I'd love to hear about possible variants that could be implemented with existing cards and content. I know that you suggested thinning France's deck or adding in a more powerful card for France (what a great idea for an expansion Salt & Pepper Games!!!) but wondering about possible house rule variant that could hamper USA or give France a leg up to address balance issues when (and if) I get to the point in game play/experience where you two got to.
Where, when how to buy? I see there is a GF campaign coming.
It's a good game, but i hate that one faction is actually op and will always win. It should have been balanced.
Why not ask for an explanation that balances the game as an option?
To bad it's not out yet...
It can be bought here in Spain, and cards are language independent as far as I know
If you really want it you could translate de rulebook
@@LCG4903 I know. But would be a bit to much with shipping I think?! Backed the campaign on Gamefound last week for the English version
Oh man, that's a bummer about the balance.
I love the theme but I wouldn't want to play a game where one player is almost guaranteed to lose every game.
I'll stick to the documentaries for now.
A bit of an overreaction: the French are not "almost guaranteed to lose." The designers said that during tests, the US won 47%-53%. That is completely & totally different from suggesting "one player is almost guaranteed to lose every game."
@@malexander4094according to the video the French player needs to both play perfectly and have a bit of luck to win once players have gotten skilled in the game. In a 2 player game that is not a minor issue. And they brought this up with the developers and they said that's how it was intended.
For me that's a pass. Especially considering how crowded the 2 player games market is for me personally.
If it doesn't bother you great, I hope you enjoy it.
Again, I think you're overreacting a bit to what they say, and what the designers say. "A bit of luck" & "play perfectly" are also hallmarks of their particular meta as a couple (if you watch other reviews of theirs) far more than it is the design itself. However, I would also add...perhaps you are not a wargamer, and so you are judging this game simply as a 2-player card game, instead of as a wargame. To most wargamers, a side that's designed with a slight advantage to equal roughly a 6% higher win-rate *is* in fact "a minor issue" ...again, at least in the realm of wargame design, where that describes hundreds of games over 3-5 decades of design history. Here, the design is pretty blatant about being a wargame, and indeed most players (& reviewers) I know who've played it are wargamers, who report both winning & losing as both sides. So if you only see it as a card game, then yes, this is a crowded genre. However, if luck & perfect play were really the requisite to this game after 10 plays, surely that would've borne out in play testing? So again, I think this is a bit of a strong reaction. But hey, also no game is for everyone & it sounds like this is a bit much for you.@@johnfavaro8008
Thanks for continuing to be respectful in this conversation! 🙏 We can absolutely see both sides here. We indeed loved every second of this game - right up until we felt we both perfected both sides and could feel the odds difference. New players will definitely not feel this way at all and the French will be able to win again if the US player or indeed both players are inexperienced. In fact I won my very first two games playing both sides (Amy here). It was enough of a thing we that we noticed over time that we proactively reached out to the publisher to check that we had discovered all of the French strategies. That is rare for us to do but also, we're not wargamers and so can't speak to that being common (I'm sure it is). As always, gaming is subjective and we can only speak to our personal experiences!
Love your work @@ThinkerThemer :) One impression I get from your background of euros & trick takers (& chess) is how you feel about optimal play, and also factors of luck...and how all the same, there are sometimes games with asymmetry & direct conflict in the game. You mention this again in this review: that you don't normally like the kind of confrontation here. So, I don't think it's important to have a wargaming experience to appreciate games like this, the way you two do! (An example is also your experience with Pax Pamir.)
I do think aspects of this game work with certain recent trends in wargaming: and for most players who seek that sort of thing, "imbalance" is almost exactly what would be preferable to the supposed balance an even match. For one thing, it's ahistorical. In most of history, imagining fairness is part of our own privilege of distance. But even aside from this, personally I'd lose curiosity in any 2-player strategy game where no matter the asymmetry, both sides had a fairly matched win rate, even as experience grows. I think it's important randomness prevents my opponent & me from just playing out the inevitable conclusion of expert moves. Then again...this may explain how I'm terrible at chess!