Verbal noun is a strange term, Rijk has objections too, does anyone know who invented this term? What do the euskaldunak think about it. I prefer my own term, verbo di carnevale ;-) . A verb that dresses up like a noun, but is still a verb.
From what he writes in 7.2.3 of Standard Basque, it’s not that the verb is not a noun, but rather de Rijk wants to stress to the reader that the whole phrase that accompanies the verbal noun is also part of that noun. But just the verb stripped of its particle suffix and -te/-tze added is also legitimately a noun too. In Basque it’s called aditz-izena, the verb-noun(name).
@@basqueberserk Barkatu, Rijk/Inchaspe calls it a " dangerous misnomer. your words are confusing, Rijk uses containing and not accompaning , and you write the whole phrase is part (?) of that noun (which noun?) So for my Basque baby understanding I will call it a noun phrase with a noun and a verb form which can follow the case endings of the noun. That will be enough for my level. aditz-izena is neither in the elhuar dic nor the itzuli app ;-) eskerrikaskotzea!
Right, the clause containing the verbal noun as well as the accompanying phrase should be taken as a nominalized phrase. This is what I was trying to express, I had not had my coffee yet. 😉 Generally everyone calls it the verbal noun, de Rijk is simply trying to express that we should look at the whole clause to understand what it is trying to convey instead of limiting the "noun" aspect to the verbal noun itself. Unfortunately this info is a little meticulous for this one video, hehe. Look up "aditz-izen" without the -a at the end, and I will add more information links in the video description. 😊
Ahhh, funny story, so I had written that actually in my original sentence, and my native Basque checker said "I would say guzti honek here", so I suppose it could be both ways? Depending? Maybe? But yes, most cases I think it would be like you said. I don't know, Basque is weird. 😅
The adjective "guzti" goes after the demonstratives, and it has to agree with them (plural/singural, case..) What they suggested to you is a typical "erdarakada" or borrowing, in fact, it is a particularly worrying one because it affects the deeper structures of the language, it's not just a superficial loanword. You know, I really admire your effort but sometimes I wonder why you took on such a complex task on such an advanced level. Perhaps it would be much more useful, and much easier, if you created content similar to the Pimsleur method, to which you could provide your native English voice and point of view as an English speaker that no native Basque could even provide. @@basqueberserk
I guess I'm just attempting (although imperfectly) to fill a void that wasn't there when I started learning Basque. When I start a language, the first thing I go to is UA-cam to find people explaining grammar and colloquialisms. Basque didn't have that (in English) and I was super disappointed, since I don't speak Spanish well. There's already so many online or book courses made by grammarians and Basque teachers, but most don't include the confusing parts, so I try to include more information based on what I have really struggled with. And I have learned probably a lot more than I otherwise would have thanks to people like you who have commented or emailed and given me resources or just helped me practice Basque, so I guess it is partially for a selfish reason that I make this channel. And I used to be on the side of prescriptivism, but now, in my opinion, if it is used by real people, it is good language, even if it is not Batua or if it is filled with borrowings. Proper language is good for certain areas of life, but "bad" language is useful as well. Maybe you will not agree with me, but that has come to be my perspective through practical application. 🙂
@@basqueberserk no, you're making a mistake here, you see, one can't apply the paradigm of, say, English language variation onto Basque and say that what this friend of yours said is acceptable the same way AAVE is not to be stigmatized. Why not? Because painful as it is to admit it, for most Basque speakers, Basque is not L1 but L2. The truth is you can't really know what I mean because one needs to live it. I have seen teachers of Basque who learned batua as adults say to speakers of an euskalki that they are wrong and I wish they were fired. But we are not talking about this here. We are talking about people whose Basque sounds, smells, looks and feels so Spanish or French or whatever that native Basque speakers will try to avoid them, or with whom they would rather talk in Spanish or French , which I also see happening on a daily basis. Often, these two issues happen at the same time, but they are still distinct issues
@@oskibila3938 I definitely agree with you on a lot. I'm not native, and I don't have a place to say what's correct or acceptable. And I definitely don't want to help the spread of erdara phrases (though you all do use 'bueno' a lot 😉). However I don't have a reason to doubt that my friend speaks an euskalki as L1, and even this issue is described in Basque grammars, though not used in Basque until the 18th century. Maybe this is one of those particularly bad Spanish-infiltrations? I always appreciate you guys' inputs, and I must say I agree with you about the adult-Batua teachers correcting native euskalki speakers. It isn't right.
I'm not learning Basque nor do I ever intend to, but the algorithm is determined to convince me otherwise!
Kaixo!
“Do you feel in charge?” -UA-cam algorithm
As a native basque speaker, I must say that I'm very surprised by the existence of this channel. Pleasantly surprised! Thank you for doing this.
Thank you! I appreciate your words. For some reason I myself am always surprised when native Basque speakers find these videos. 😊
@@basqueberserk we are brought here by the strange workings of the UA-cam algorithm.
Gu guztiok algoritmoaren menpekoak gara.
Can you do another video about NOR NORI NORK with verbs? This is the most difficult part for me.
Yes! I've been working on one, I want to get it just right since it's such a difficult concept. 😊
Verbal noun is a strange term, Rijk has objections too, does anyone know who invented this term? What do the euskaldunak think about it. I prefer my own term, verbo di carnevale ;-) . A verb that dresses up like a noun, but is still a verb.
From what he writes in 7.2.3 of Standard Basque, it’s not that the verb is not a noun, but rather de Rijk wants to stress to the reader that the whole phrase that accompanies the verbal noun is also part of that noun. But just the verb stripped of its particle suffix and -te/-tze added is also legitimately a noun too. In Basque it’s called aditz-izena, the verb-noun(name).
@@basqueberserk Barkatu, Rijk/Inchaspe calls it a " dangerous misnomer. your words are confusing, Rijk uses containing and not accompaning , and you write the whole phrase is part (?) of that noun (which noun?) So for my Basque baby understanding I will call it a noun phrase with a noun and a verb form which can follow the case endings of the noun. That will be enough for my level. aditz-izena is neither in the elhuar dic nor the itzuli app ;-) eskerrikaskotzea!
Right, the clause containing the verbal noun as well as the accompanying phrase should be taken as a nominalized phrase. This is what I was trying to express, I had not had my coffee yet. 😉
Generally everyone calls it the verbal noun, de Rijk is simply trying to express that we should look at the whole clause to understand what it is trying to convey instead of limiting the "noun" aspect to the verbal noun itself. Unfortunately this info is a little meticulous for this one video, hehe.
Look up "aditz-izen" without the -a at the end, and I will add more information links in the video description. 😊
*guzti honek -> honek guztiak
Ahhh, funny story, so I had written that actually in my original sentence, and my native Basque checker said "I would say guzti honek here", so I suppose it could be both ways? Depending? Maybe? But yes, most cases I think it would be like you said. I don't know, Basque is weird. 😅
The adjective "guzti" goes after the demonstratives, and it has to agree with them (plural/singural, case..) What they suggested to you is a typical "erdarakada" or borrowing, in fact, it is a particularly worrying one because it affects the deeper structures of the language, it's not just a superficial loanword.
You know, I really admire your effort but sometimes I wonder why you took on such a complex task on such an advanced level. Perhaps it would be much more useful, and much easier, if you created content similar to the Pimsleur method, to which you could provide your native English voice and point of view as an English speaker that no native Basque could even provide. @@basqueberserk
I guess I'm just attempting (although imperfectly) to fill a void that wasn't there when I started learning Basque. When I start a language, the first thing I go to is UA-cam to find people explaining grammar and colloquialisms. Basque didn't have that (in English) and I was super disappointed, since I don't speak Spanish well. There's already so many online or book courses made by grammarians and Basque teachers, but most don't include the confusing parts, so I try to include more information based on what I have really struggled with. And I have learned probably a lot more than I otherwise would have thanks to people like you who have commented or emailed and given me resources or just helped me practice Basque, so I guess it is partially for a selfish reason that I make this channel.
And I used to be on the side of prescriptivism, but now, in my opinion, if it is used by real people, it is good language, even if it is not Batua or if it is filled with borrowings. Proper language is good for certain areas of life, but "bad" language is useful as well. Maybe you will not agree with me, but that has come to be my perspective through practical application. 🙂
@@basqueberserk no, you're making a mistake here, you see, one can't apply the paradigm of, say, English language variation onto Basque and say that what this friend of yours said is acceptable the same way AAVE is not to be stigmatized. Why not? Because painful as it is to admit it, for most Basque speakers, Basque is not L1 but L2. The truth is you can't really know what I mean because one needs to live it. I have seen teachers of Basque who learned batua as adults say to speakers of an euskalki that they are wrong and I wish they were fired. But we are not talking about this here. We are talking about people whose Basque sounds, smells, looks and feels so Spanish or French or whatever that native Basque speakers will try to avoid them, or with whom they would rather talk in Spanish or French , which I also see happening on a daily basis. Often, these two issues happen at the same time, but they are still distinct issues
@@oskibila3938 I definitely agree with you on a lot. I'm not native, and I don't have a place to say what's correct or acceptable. And I definitely don't want to help the spread of erdara phrases (though you all do use 'bueno' a lot 😉). However I don't have a reason to doubt that my friend speaks an euskalki as L1, and even this issue is described in Basque grammars, though not used in Basque until the 18th century. Maybe this is one of those particularly bad Spanish-infiltrations? I always appreciate you guys' inputs, and I must say I agree with you about the adult-Batua teachers correcting native euskalki speakers. It isn't right.