I think the best theory I've heard for this ending was that Anna saw the afterlife, but that no one in the Society could go there because of what they've done to their victims. That would be a great ending and a great case of poetic justice.
It goes without saying that of course the members of the Society would not be accepted on whatever that sh*t is in the afterlife. I feel that after all we went through watching this film we DESERVED an answer as to what they were expecting.
This movie was pretty similar to the creepypasta "gateway of the mind" In the end of that story the test subject tells the doctor "I've talked to god and he has abandoned us"
If you think with pure logic, the only thing that is reasonable it's that all martyrs are feeling but not seeing anything at all, that is agonizing pain. All was meaningless, what proof the kind of egoistic sadists a human been can be just to satisfice their vanity.
+Elisa Mondragon Right but even that could be interpreted in a few different ways. Was she being sarcastic ? or did she mean it literally. Either way great scene
There's so many open endings to this: The afterlife was too good and she couldn't wait There was no afterlife for anyone, so there was no point There was no good afterlife for those who made others suffer, so there was no point either Goes on and on...
Look at that bunch. Wealthy people, all wrinkled like a prune. What's the point of all the torture? Life after death? Maybe. But for them I think it will be an eternity in Hell. Those people are delusional. There is no sanity in what they believe and do. It's just pure evil. If they want answers, then why don't they endure the pain themselves.
Still a film that I have only seen once. Because once was enough. Not that it was a bad film. Quite the contrary. But what they did to that poor girl at the end, and all I had emotionally invested, when it was all said and done I felt like this movie hurt my soul. I still think about this ending after all these years. At first I thought the cult leader was simply in a rush to get to the blissful pain of on uncertain afterlife. But after watching this clip again, I take the phrase "keep doubting Etienne" as a warning. Of course I could be wrong. But I feel like there is a specific reason why she killed herself before addressing her group. Especially since this was the first Martyr (supposedly) who actually passed the trials and then spoke. I think she realized that all of her/their work was for naught. It was all in vain. The cult leader could not bare to lie to these people who have followed her for so long. And the fact that she had destroyed so many innocent lives for no good reason was too much to deal with. Then again, saying "keep doubting Etienne" could also be interpreted as a hint to keep being curious until one truly reaches a conclusion in their own. Either way, this a horror movie that succeeded on many levels. Any film that still makes you think about it after almost ten years of seeing it only once, is a good film. But that poor girl at the end. Fuck, why they have to do that to her?
It's unfortunate that this movie affected you in this manner, but I can't see the words of anyone as such leaving a stamp in my mind. Being that how can someone so empty, broken and cruel be able to utter words that are worth listening to, much less taking serious?!? Listening (not to be confused with hearing) to someone like her is equivalent to listening to the warnings of a thief that has intentions of robbing/hurting you......but casually warns you about another thief that has intentions to do the same. Nothing but empty nothings. I highly doubt she was concerned about the group. If they had test subjects in the past, they are bound to have test subjects in the future, as the experiment/investment isn't hurting them or their pockets. They go after what they refer to as the vulnerable, uncared for and abandoned types. Words like be curious, vulnerable, keep the faith hope and be open minded are just to set those up that don't know any better. You can't expect or accept good advice or good words from anyone that is out to deceive you or hurt you. That is the biggest mind fuck of all mind fucks
Idk which was worse. What they did to the main character, or what they did to the woman she found in the torture room. The one they had nailed the freaking helmet onto her head and covered her body in scars. That one bothered me a lot more. She had clearly lost her mind for some time. She didn't even seem human anymore. But why did they do THAT? They had the goal of learning about the afterlife with the main character. But with that girl, it was just extreme cruelty for no reason other than being cruel. You're right though, this movie gets you thinking
Why did they do it to Jesus? There is a clear reference to Christ, she was hanging like Christ after the extreme torture. Then she was in ecstasy between 12:15 and 2.30 PM. At 3 Pm she reported her vision to Mademoiselle. According to the Bible Christ was crucified either on 9.00 AM or around noon and died around 3 .00 PM. Her ecstasy and " confession" covered this part of the day. Mademoiselle also said the Martyrs go through the process of transfiguration, ( like Jesus did ). The whole congregation looked like a satanic cult , like the people from " Rosemary's baby ". What they did was utterly Evil, it's beyond words. I think Anna told Mademoiselle that there is a Divine Justice in the afterworld and hell is a part of it, as a real place, there is no escape from the divine terror. She says " keep doubting " because it's better not to know for someone like Etienne and the rest of the cult. Perhaps also by killing herself she wanted them to stop what they were doing.
Ending kinda gave me the vibe of something found in Lovecraftian horror. In the search for an afterlife, heaven, or hell, perhaps she saw something so incomprehensible that mankind could never truly understand. They say that Anna had progressed further than any other subject, but perhaps the previous subjects hinted at something similar and were simply ignored. Mademoiselle seems the most knowledgeable of the project and maybe Anna's words finally convinced her of something she alone had pieced together. In fact she may have even theorized something that the other members didn't agree with and the words "keep doubting," was her way of telling them that she was right.
The idea of no afterlife being the result in the film is a stupid idea because she would just view this person as another failure and move on to the next victim. She wouldn't have killed herself over her victim saying anything to that effect. Plus, you don't prove something doesn't exist like that. You can only prove it does. Also, the idea of her saying there is one, but you are going to hell or some equivalent of such would hardly have her kill herself. You don't expedite your arrival at something horrible. You prolong life at that point. The only reasonable conclusion is she said there is something there. Having that knowledge, she was gladly willing to take her own life and get there. The only question is whether the victim was telling the truth or not. They were torturing her until they got a result that they wanted so she might as well have just said there was one and then maybe they would put her out of her misery and she could just die.
Its funny because we don't know what did the "Martir" said to the old woman, so everything you can think about it is just a bunch of expectations based on your personal beliefs.
+Tiago Bareiro exactly we have no clue and I love how it leaves it for the viewer to decide. I mean Shit she could have said so many things that made the old bat blow her head off ! what she saw was the most joyful & blissful thing imaginable total pure ecstasy ! Or it could of been the complete opposite of that GOD has abandoned us all or the after life is pure suffering & agony it makes what I went through look like a cake walk ,who the hell knows ?
Everybody is so busy discussing what Anna had witnessed/told Mademoiselle- that they fail to realize that it is unimportant to the story. It's not what exists after death that causes Mademoiselle to take her own life, it's the fact that she knows. Why keep living when she knows what will come after death? Her life's work is done and she now has nothing to live for. By not telling the rest of the society what Anna had witnessed, she saved their lives by giving them purpose to keep on going.
My theory is that anna said there's no afterlife and mademoiselle realized it was all for naught and told etienne to keep doubting coz it's what keeping them curious and alive
@@crashverde1686 That's very likely. Under extreme suffering the brain releases chemicals to deal with the pain and a lot of them can induce hallucinations as a way to "detach" from the physical body that hurts way too much. The fact that this cult did not take that into account proves how far gone and desperate they were.
i mean, based on the fact that we will ALL die at some point. it seems kind a pointless to get to those extremes to findd out. if there is something after death you will obviously find out eventually. i know is a movie but how can they discard the fact that she could easily be hallucinating due to trauma anyways? people say and see crazy things before they die, it could all be product of a malfunctioning brain. i liked the movie anyways
Anna did saw an afterlife that is the reason we are shown a small part of her vision which is light at the end of a black tunnel with heavenly voices. She must have told her that the other world exist and it sounded so wonderful that the lady could not wait to join that other world. That is the reason she said "keep doubting" and shot herself because if other's would know about it they would all kill themselves to join the heavenly realm and the very purpose of living will cease to exist.
i don't think she said there is no afterlife, because mademoiselle is too cold and cruel to kill herself because of guilt for having tortured many innocents for nothing. I'm pretty sure hanna lied and said the afterlife is great and all so the old witch kills herself. it was her revenge. Like that, everyone believe the organisation won, but in fact, it's hanna who win
what do you mean by win?! wtf is this with folk needing to win?!? Life isn't a fucking track field, as there are females and males that have endured a lot of fuckery from folk throughout life. Some persevered and made it through, while others fell by the wayside! What's even more pathetic, there are those that know as well as are aware of it. but for reasons like money and their desperate need to be liked...... they walk away and turn a blind eye to the haggish behavior that continues. Do you think that someone who has to endure fuckeries as such is looking to win, as there is no prize. That's nothing but egotistically, showman talk. That woman choosing to kill herself doesn't make folk like her disappear, as someone as such will appear within the hour. So based on what you've said, this girls whole life was a competition and enduring all that she had was worth it in the end because she won............. interesting.
I hate this philosophy about modern protagonists needing to "win" Fuck off, she was in a transcendental state, there are much more important stuff than winning in these cases
great film...better ending, could interpret as she killed herself because there was no afterlife (they wasted their time and hurt humanity in the process). could also intrepret she saw there was an after life and killed herself to join it.............or that there was an after life, and was told she created a great sin, and killed herself in despair. anyway you want to view the ending according to your bias is valid....thus a perfect ending.
I been wondering what the end means for yrs and I stil cant figure it out. I just don't understand why the guy at the end didn't tell the crowd what she heard from anna. and then kill her self if that is what she wanted to do.
The ending makes sense PERFECTLY, in my opinion. You better not know the truth, because "not knowing" is actually what makes people want to live. It's not even important what she learned from Ana. Look, everything she lived for, including 17 years of brutal experiments, faith and hope has faded away. Most likely, she learned that there's no afterlife and no God, you can figure it out based on her actions before she killed herself. The point is that a lot of people want to live because they have hope and they keep questioning. And when she said "keep doubting" she decided to take the knowledge with her and not ruin other people lives. So she's a good guy in the end. This is definitely very strong movie and very clear message - don't ask what's in there, you are not supposed to know!
Yeah, it's obvious that she doesn't want the others to know what she found out, but my issue is that if she finds out that there is nothing, or even hell, why would she be in such a hurry to get there? If I found out for sure that after this life there is nothing else, I would want to live the rest of my life that I had left. My interpretation is that you are right, she found out there is nothing, but realizes that if this truth is known to the people, then no one would have any reason to be civilized to each other any more if they know that there aren't any otherworldly consequences. So, in a sense, she becomes a martyr herself to save the people from what would happen if we knew that no matter what we did in life wouldn't matter after we die. Just my interpretation. I think it's left for people to make up their own.
I have 5 scenarios 1.Heaven for all. Everyone goes to heaven and be happy.So it doesn't matter whether they continue the experiments or not,in the end everyone will find peace.Also the testimony was so eloquent and beautiful that she could not do it any justice reciting it.The group have to hear it for them selves or experience it.So she takes her life and leaves her protegee a challenge to find the next Martyr. 2.Eternal hell. Doom pain and torture for everyone.Martyrs are peaceful because they are already in pain and they are content.Woman shoots herself out of despair and she doesn't say anything because she doesn't want the group to lose hope. 3.Typical heaven and hell. Martyrs in heaven and the women and group in hell.This makes all of them Martyrs. 4.No afterlife. Martyr some how sees the complete void after death and shares this info. 5.There is an after life. Completely different life with Gods and Monsters and what ever you can imagine.Woman is completely satisfied.But she realises she has all the answers and there is nothing to live for.While the Martyrs are peaceful with the complete knowledge, the Woman is not a Martyr herself and cannot handle this.
She was not torturing them for her satisfaction. She was trying to find out why some people, when on the verge of a painful death appear calm.People have done worse things in the name of their believes.
Or she could have just said nothing or made something up... She didn't have to die. She also could have been given a totally different explanation of the afterlife. Perhaps there is no After just continuation in different forms. Death is just the transition....
she told him to keep doubting... to me that means to keep seeking the truth, to keep the program going. or it could mean that there was nothing and to keep doubting as in your doubts are justified that there is nothing. All i know is that i'm pretty sure if it was good news she would have shared it.
Translation for “doubt” in a lot of languages is to “question”. In USA it means to not believe, but opposite in other countries I noticed. Particularly Brazil Portuguese
Why would she kill herself if the afterlife was too much to handle? Wouldn't she want to not go to the afterlife? Maybe she killed herself because she spent her whole life trying to find the answer and now she had it and her life had no more meaning?
would you prolong your life living with the torture of knowing that every moment for the rest of your life, your only thoughts are now focused on that afterlife. Even if it meant damnation for her. the torture of knowing what is waiting for you at the end is far more painful than giving yourself to it
I guess thats the best possible so far i mean why would people in such cult even care for the other members, they are literally ready to do anything for theyr own sick interrests so they have 0 morals ,intergrity and so on, once she knows she prefers to take the secret in her grave as last f you, also when she tells him to "keep doubting" to make them continue with the making of martyrs, shows that she has no reason for remorse or to seek salvation. But still not sure it doesnt feel 100% right, mayby she doesn't care to make the cult stop and kills herself because just like the afterlife we just cant imagine her "Reasons" after being telled the unimaginable wich drives her crazy because shes not ready for the afterlife.
I think Anna told her there is an afterlife, and what it is like, which may be more mind blowing than anyone could imagine. Madam asked Eitenne if he could imagine an afterlife (the subtext being whether he truly believed there was one), and when he answered truthfully, she didn’t bother to tell him what Anna said (probably disappointed by him due to his lack of faith), mocking him by telling him to “keep doubting”, then she killed herself, bcuz she no longer feared death. I think that was the whole point of their cult - they wanted to no longer fear death.
I think the whole point is that we are not supposed to understand exactly what she saw and it is supposed to be completely incomprehensible to everyone else other than Ana and Mademoiselle. So what I think happened is this: You can see life or the point of life as something akin to a puzzle for instance (at least from the cult's perspective) and just as a puzzle has no worth if you now the answer/key beforehand, life has no meaning if you've achieved the knowledge of what it actually means or what its' point is through somewhat understanding afterlife. That explains why she has a content demeanour before her suicide as well as why she tells Etienne (and basically rest of the cult members) to keep doubting which means to keep searching for the key to the "puzzle" instead of just outright telling them the answer hence making their lives pointless at that instant.
You are a character in a book. None of this is real. After we go to sleep or what we know as die, we simply become character in a different book. If we were good we become awesome characters who get to have fun in our story and if we are bad we become suffering bitter characters who can't experience joy and delight. So there you go. So the woman, realising her character is this ugly old bitter evil lady who tortures kids decides to end her character in this tale to see where her next life will take her.
it's not that they didn't think to record it. The Countess wanted to know it first, and wanted to be the only to hear it. She wanted to be the one to disseminate the info to the rest.
Have you ever thought ,maybe hell is like an eternity not just 50 or 60 years of the things the girls went through...with absolutely no hope? And maybe we must truly understand...try to figure a way out in our time here..before it's too late...if we don't we will only have ourselves to blame.
but if that's the case why would she expedite her trip to hell? it makes more sense that she wanted to get to paradise, or she was told that there is nothing and her life has been in vein so she ended it......i cant imagine someone killing themselves knowing that hell is waiting for them
@@jeanlouis1898 I think the theory that she told Madmasiele (or how to spell it) that only hell is waiting for her or no afterlife isn't true. She must have told her that the afterlife is beautiful and that everything they do in this earth is for nothing bc our whole point of life is to die at the end anyways, so she tricked madomasielle while the hell was waiting for her all along.
Theyre already in the afterlife. Theyre already in hell. Once you die you are reborn in this eternal cycle with your previous memories of loved ones gone.
I think I figured out the reason why the old lady ended her life without telling anyone the truth. It doesn't make sense that she would be selfish with the rest of the Society if the afterlife was great. I also don't think she would keep it from them if they were all going to hell anyway, I think she would tell them all just to give them a chance to make their own decision about whether to end their lives immediately or not. No, I think the real reason why she didn't tell anyone is that having knowledge beyond human comprehension is supposed to be a grave sin. This is why consorting with demons is a huge no-no in many religions, because they can give you knowledge you're not supposed to have. Even if you didn't participate in the torture, gaining knowledge about the afterlife from a martyr is probably enough to land someone in hell. So she didn't tell anyone to save most of humanity from this immediate downfall. I actually think the old lady was doing everyone a favor.
The funniest ending to a horror movie. The most biggest fuck you in cinematic history. To know what lays afterwords and get the people who have spent their lives to finally know whats beyond death. Just to know that the only person who was successful to find out, kills herself in the bathroom upstairs and goes straight onto what she knew. Love it
"Keep doubting" either it meant she discovered there was paradise after death or it could mean the sacrifice was all in vain and it was another human was wasted.
Best theory is whatever Anna told her ended the need to keep going. The not knowing what’s after death is what keeps us living. So by saying “keep doubting “ mademoiselle is saying don’t try to remove the unknown or it will no longer be necessary to live. Kinda like if you knew the ending to a movie the need to watch it or that desire to watch it is removed. Or if you play the lottery but were told ahead that for sure you will not win ever, you wouldn’t go buying mad lotto tickets. So in the end, what keeps us moving is the unknown. And knowing that unknown removes the desire or want to live
Its hard to know what was said in the last scene, which was a shame because it ruined the film.I agree there was probably no afterlife hence the old woman was shocked and shot herself, but who really knows what was meant by the end of the film.
crozzmglen I found out what was said by mistake as I was surfing youtube I came across the true story this was based on (it was an old athiest man that it happened too). What he said after having gone through all of that suffering was..."I MET GOD AND HE HAS ABANDONED US". then died. smh shook my soul.
TruthSeekr5000 I wonder if ."I MET GOD AND HE HAS ABANDONED US" (if something like that in fact was ever said, but I can see it being that kind of message) was directed at them specifically or humankind in general. If just them she may have killed herself to protect the society from the continual grief, fear, and despair they would feel for the rest of their lives.
What gets me is, how do they assume what the victims are saying or describing are truly visions of the after life, they could just be hallucinating from the abysmal amount of pain, or they could be going insane from it, being beaten to non-stop, and then having your entire suit of skin removed from your body could cause so much pain, your brain prolly couldn't deal with it, and you'd go insane, just a thought, or thoughts.
well i think that's the point, your body has to be in a state of complete shock or trauma to reach that state, that thin line between life and death so you can "witness" what's on the other side
old WITCH: "Etienne, have you ever tried to imagine the other world?" Etienne:: "I am afraid - not" old WITCH: "keep doubting Etienne.." and she kills herself. which means: we still have no answers, Etienne. you can keep doubting... but I am going to find it out myself. right now! (and she kills herself)
NukSooKow 1980 True bro, and for Etienne he could just be a bodyguard or something so he isn't real interested about the after-life or doesn't even believe in it
She seemed way more shocked about hearing there is no afterlife/that the whole procedure was useless than she seemed euphoric. I think thats pretty obvious
I find it disturbing that there are actually ppl like this, that belong to groups like this. If the mind can think it up, then it has been done or will be done.
It makes no sense for her to kill herself because there is an afterlife and she wanted to get there faster. None of that makes sense. She would have shared the good news with her cult. After all. That's why its a cult and not just one serial killer. They all want to know the secrets of the afterlife. Anna must have told her something she didn't want to hear. I don't think she had any guilt. I don't think she cared much about life at all. Just the afterlife. That's why she didn't hesitate to kill all those people and that's why she didn't hesitate to kill herself. Once she found out whatever Anna told her, everything she ever worked for or cared about must have gone out the window, therefore giving her no reason to live anymore. Plus she's old!! Imagine living most of her life with this belief of the afterlife and suddenly, after witnessing what she believed was an exceptional martyr tells her that the afterlife does not exist or that the afterlife does exist but she has no chance of getting in. That's like a hardcore Christian meeting Jesus and finding out that he was really just a man and not the son of God. When that's all you care about and you find out it's not even real, it's like, what else is there to live for?
She was told there was no afterlife. Her soul purpose in life was discovering if there was. Therefore rather than take that purpose away from Etienne, she told him to "keep doubting" so he still had purpose. She killed herself because there was no point anymore, and rather than face her followers only to tell them what they have been doing for the last 17 years was in vain, she would rather kill herself. Good riddance.
@@krichard8509 I agree 100%, she was told that there is nothing after death so madame killed herself because there is no meaning to life and from the guilt of the suffering she caused...(imo)
Another plausible theory is that the old lady found out that she is not supposed to disclose the true nature of the afterlife. She had to kill herself to avoid the endless inquiries from her colleagues including possible torture. She killed herself to avoid torture and make sure that the truth stays with her.
this ending is actually perfect in the context of the movie...we're not meant to know what's waiting for us in the afterlife, if there's anything at all...so how can a movie answer the question for us? we decide for ourselves
My theory: the insight of the afterlife broke her mind, thats why there is just no sense to her actions, we just cant get the head arround what her motivations or reasons are, like we cant get our heads arround how the afterlife looks, get me? Having insight of a thing like afterlife could very likely corrupt the mind, i heard if we could see the whole time in existence at once it would be probalby to much for a human brain to handle thats why we have past, and present understanding.
I tend to look at it the Dante's way: in the afterlife the damned souls understand all their sins, for that reason they WANT to suffer to keep away the pain of never being able to gaze to the Holy Grace. As Madamoiselle is told about it she loses every hope and tells Etienne to keep doubting, to spare him some time before the everlasting self damnation
My favorite take on this is that Anna simply told Madame her best memory in life. That could be what we see in the credits: Anna and Lucie playing together as kids. There is no afterlife, which is the most rational thing to conclude also in real life and Madame could have finally come to this conclusion as well. Thus, she saw no value in her life anymore and told the others to keep doubting. She's part of a cult/religious group that expects that there is something after death. So, it would make perfect sense that Madame killed herself because she was kicked out of her delusion and wanted the others to stay there. A far more interesting question than "why did Madame kill herself?" to me is "why did they do this in the first place?" What kind of doctrine would you have to create? Voltaire once said "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." It must have been similar to some real life examples like the Jonestown massacre. I really don't believe that the movie suddenly went supernatural (even though it tried to misguide the viewer with supposedly supernatural beings in the beginning). So, it would be very silly if there was an afterlife from which Anna came back. This is not "God's not dead", people, this is a fucking brilliant horror masterpiece.
@@dzretromachine I disagree. That scene doesn't show anything but a light. There is no paradise or heaven, just a light. People in real life have reported to see a light when they were close to death. It is still very likely that the lights go out forever afterwards. I mean, the lights were out billions of years before you were born, so it would make sense to go back to that state. To think that after death you are entitled to get to know the secret of the Universe is a bit arrogant don't you think? The Universe owes us nothing. Furthermore, think about this: if I remove your brain piece by piece you'll fade away piece by piece. Where is the part of you that I have removed? Is it already on the other side?
such a great film such a pity more horrors aren't made this way! never wanted a character/villain in a movie to get their comeuppance as much as i did the bald guy who tortured anna and then skinned her alive, i would root for a sequel just to see that haha
I think asking what the other world is is the wrong question. The movie states there are two types of people, people who succumb to pain and die and martyrs who endure pain. Knowledge of the other world is excruciating pain for some reason or other and Mademoiselle is no Martyr.
But if there wasn't why didn't she tell the other members? It would've stopped them torturing people, but by the look of Mademoiselle at the end it looks like she was told that there was something more than being told there was nothing.
Asking if you still believe and then telling him to keep doubting means that they are introducing a new mystery into the story. essentially a cliffhanger for a sequel. because Unless they assess that we can deduce their belief system that she asks him about then we can't begin to assume what part of his belief or religion that he (and they) doubt. I've gotta ask some people smarter than me to assess this. Also wanted to note. that BANGING intro was just as good as that BANGING outro, right? succinct storytelling at its finest
if she believed torture brings one to revelation of the truth, then she "gifted" him with the torture of perpetual doubt and not knowing that which he coveted to know, ironically propelling him to know for himself and still live, what she would find out through her premature death, making them both martyrs which balances their karma of creating martyrs through their torturing of them. She gifted herself and him with balanced karma in an attempt to guarantee them peace in life and death. The audience is intentionally tortured by "keeping doubting" the meaning of the "end" which is an experiential metaphor of the cult's obsession with knowing "the end" of life. (i haven't watched the movie but i read the comments so this is my impression).
"Keep doubting"? Correct my ignorance here guys, but I thought they never had "doubts" of an afterlife, but rather it would have made more sense that she said "keep believing".
@KGB - Komitet Gosudarstvennoy Bezopasnosti I think that's a stretch. Simply because they never once eluded to that theory you are raising. That said, if I understand you correctly, its to "keep doubting" that this life you are living is indeed "real"?
It's hard to believe that if what she was told was that life had no meaning and nothing happens when you die; that'd she'd rush to her own demise. She ends her life because she can no longer wait but also eludes that it's worth waiting for. Idk man. I'm just walking down so many alley ways with this one.
I've always seen it the way in she killed herself to get to the afterlife and all the torturing and killing was obviously a selfish act by the lady she didn't give a shit about others or others believing that was all "something to do" while waiting for an answer and she had every intent in keeping the information for herself. After seeing this movie years ago I looked forever for an answer on the ending and when someone popped on Reddit a couple years back and said they knew people who had worked on the film closely and worked on it themselves in another country (I read this and they posted a timestamp with proof in screenshots of emails with staff and another redditor translated them I even tried looking the text myself in Google translate) that said the ending was in fact because she wanted to enter the afterlife it just further re confirmed my belief in what I thought the ending was all along. Now who knows they could really be bullshitting but it was a very elaborate way to do so
@@wdrumz you gringos are so funny, as a south american who is really used to corruption i can say, reps and dems are the same shit when it comes to perverted corruption. Liberals claim inocence because their party defends minorities and reps claim being inocence because they are conservatives who like ol' mama apple pie and traditional families. But let me remind you something, Jeffrey Epstein had pics with both Trump and Clinton.
I think Anna saw the afterlife what made her see that knowing the afterlife cannot be survived. Anna told Mademoiselle what she saw out of revenge so Mademoiselle needs to die too. Mademoiselle didn't tell them to protect them from death and because doubting is what creates life in the first place. It wasn't really a suicide. It's the way we would interpret her death but it's actually death taking her to the afterlife without her consent. Lucy also appeared to commit suicide but it maybe was the demon woman she appeared to be haunted by. At least this is how I interpret this scene.
Once knowing the afterlife there’s no purpose of living,she avoided telling them so they can still have purpose in living ,must have been way too intense
Monsieur Laugier might be like to say there's really nothing more in the afterlife, so everyone dead has its own life after death, and we keep doubting of it
The ending was pretty obvious if you think about it. If you are being tortured by religious fanatics and they seek an afterlife and will go to any means to find out if there is one, the best way to seek revenge would be to make them feel worthless and horrible about themselves by saying there is nothing, which is why she kills herself maybe due to guilt or disappointment.
I haven't seen this film but from what I gather the premise is dumb as hell, but then people really are this dumb so it's quite realistic in that respect I suppose. You can't see what life after death is like if you haven't died, in which case you can't come back and tell anyone because it means you're not dead. Is that difficult for some people to understand? Ok so I'm going to waffle on about philosophy and what death is for a bit. Maybe it's because I'm intoxicated, maybe I'm a great sage and this is my purpose in life, or maybe I'm just intoxicated. Pay it no mind if you don't enjoy such things, fair warning. ...................... Really saying "life after death" is a oxymoron anyway, if you're experiencing life you're not dead. What people really mean isn't life after death, or even consciousness after death. What they want is their own sense of self to continue floating around on some higher dimension, but if you really go into what that would be like could you even still consider it you anymore if that were the case? If you try and pin down what "you" are that isn't based on what you're actually experiencing or have experienced to you in your physical body you'll never be able to do it. Imagine if you had all your memories wiped, including any muscle memory so no long term "I don't know how I knew how to do that" moments. Would you still be you? What if just suppose that's what happened to you when you died. So imagine if your "consciousness" really did drift off into the astral plain, except your memory wiped 100% clean and with zero possible way to sense anything at all. No pain, no hunger, cold, hot, sadness, loneliness, thirsty. Even if it were possible to think, you'd not have any ability to talk to yourself in any language because you don't know any. For you there'd be no sense of time, no sense of anything at all. Even if you had the capacity to ponder and have an emotion there's no pressures to feel anything at all. With no sense of time any moment is just the same as any other, you don't know what unhappiness is because you don't know what it's like to be happy and you don't have any way to be happy because there's no sensory input and no reason to feel rewarded anymore. We enjoy something like ice cream because our brain likes the taste and texture. But if we slightly change our taste perception and we hate it, or if we had to eat ice cream 24/7 we'd get bored of it. With no reason to feel hungry and no way to taste it there'd be no enjoyment to be gotten from our favourite foods even if they were there, nor would we know it was meant to be eaten or what it would mean to eat anyway. The point is, if your "ego", your "self", really did float off into the ether or whatever you want to call it when you died, if this is what it was like, in what practical way would that be different to complete annihilation? How would you even know you were alive in such as scenario? If you're like me, if you go under general anaesthetic for surgery it feels like zero time has passed from when you drift off to when you awake. And if you do believe you do experience something then I'm sure you can remember some time where you've slept so deeply and totally you had a similar experience. During this period from your point of view you were experiencing "nothing", but that sounds silly because obviously you didn't experience anything. You only know time has past because when you awoke people around you tell you X amount of time has gone by, and you can look up the time and date. But what happened to "you" in that period of time? We'd say you were still there, just unconscious. You're aware of there being a before and an after because you still remember being put unconscious and you know why you're in the hospital. Your mind puts what happened into that context and it makes sense, you don't remember it but time past and now you're awake again. Of course we wouldn't say you were "dead" when you were in that state, we'd say you were just in a deep sleep and now you''re awake again. And that makes complete sense obviously as someone that's died is in a very different state to being deeply unconscious. But practically speaking from your perception, could you say what the difference would be to you if you had died, compared with just never waking up again? If I was told that I was going to die on the operating table and so I'd never wake up again, I'd be scared when they're putting me under! To know as I drift off that this was it. But it's hard to find any logical reason to be. If you ask yourself if you could live for however long you like, except you'd have to be in this dreamless thoughtless unconscious void forever, in what practical way would that differ from just drifting off into that state and dying? Imagine if you did choose to stay in the thoughtless unconscious void for 1000 years and on that last day you die. How would you feel on year 1? How would you feel on year 999 with only 5 minutes to go? How would you know you were approaching 1000 years or not? As far as I can see, it wouldn't make a difference if it was 1 day or a 100 billion years before you died. The only reason we think longer is better is because when we're conscious we have that sense of time and we always wish we had more of it. It makes sense we'd think we'd say we'd want to stay in that state for years, rather than 10 minutes, because we feel deep down that the idea of living for many years or living for only 5 more minutes seems to make a HUGE difference. In reality though, if there was absolutely no experience whatsoever while you were unconscious and just a total void of nothingness, then whether you were like that for 5 minutes or a billion years really makes no difference. When in that state you wouldn't even know you'd only have 5 minutes, you wouldn't be able to go over your memories and ponder any of it, you wouldn't be dreaming anything, you wouldn't have any sense of the passage of time or any time at all. When you did eventually die you wouldn't even know you had needed to worry, or that it was coming up. The point is, what is the difference between actual death and that period you're totally unconscious under general anaesthetic? It seems to me this thoughtless void of unconsciousness is really only different to death based on waking up and remembering "before".
This poses another question for me. So lets say there were such a thing as a soul which would allow your "self" to continue beyond the death of your body. What would it be like if you could switch "souls" with another person? You would close your eyes in your body and wake up in theirs. Only, there's a catch. Absolutely none of your memories will be switched, so you'd have the exact memories as the person who's' body your soul was transferred with, and they would have yours. On top of that, you'd also have the same biological propensities toward certain behaviours as they did. Lets say you're a man and switched with a woman, you'd also have a very different hormonal balance. Or maybe you're man with an average body and fitness levels and now awoke in the body of a body builder with high levels of testosterone flooding his system or highly fit Olympic swimmer. The question is, would you know? From each others perspectives because you have "before" memories of the other, you simply woke up again in the same body. You have no reason to sense that you aren't that person. If you were a nervous shy person and you exchanged souls with a highly confident person, you wouldn't be shy because being shy would have been something determined either by genetics or your experiences or both. So neither of you would have any reason to think anything had changed at all, even though your souls were switched. The point being if this was the nature of your self, of your soul, then is there a practical different between having a soul and not having a soul? As much as everyone feels they're "them" they could just as easily really feel they're someone else, or really feel they're another animal like a dog, or an insect. Our souls could be switching bodies all the time constantly thousands of times a day and we'd still have the same feeling we do now that we're still the same person we were 5 years ago even if in previous few hours we'd been 10 different people, a badger and a house fly and we'd only been in this body for 10 minutes. In this scenario then wouldn't we be justified in saying the soul is such that there may as well be none? Another way to think of it is to consider reincarnation. Imagine then if when you die you come back as someone else. The room goes black and you die and then the next thing you're being born somewhere else in the world. Only once again you wouldn't keep any of your memories, those were all housed back in the brain of your old body, but "you", your "soul", that survives. As we all know from what it's like thinking back to our childhood, most of us can remember barely anything if at all of that time. The only reason we know it happened at all is because there's pictures, people to tell us it did, and being able to determine that this must have happened to us. We only know our age because we can compare how we look to other humans and know we must be roughly this or that age, or because we're told how old we are. Even the memories we do have are so poor that most of the time we can't be totally sure they really happened and not a false memory generated from a frequently told story by a parent while looking at photographs, or even something that happened to someone else or potentially something we remember from a film or book! Memory is very funny like that. So your soul survives your death and you're now a baby again somewhere in the world, reincarnated as another human. Only without your memories and with different biological and environmental pressures, how would you know you'd been reincarnated? How would you behave in the same way when all the factors that shaped who you identify as "you" are different this time? To me I can't find any difference between saying there is no soul and saying there is a soul when you look at it like this. So to say when you die you're obliterated totally and other conscious beings continue to come into existence, and saying when you die your soul is reincarnated in a new physical body, really might as well be saying the same thing.
I think she told her we are all damned. In other words "check mate" or "game over", so it didn't matter if you continued living on knowing there's ONLY hell waiting ahead, therefor she killed herself sooner rather than later. If you're going to suffer "knowing" whats coming up , rather simply get it over with. As for the "keep doubting" i think she meant "you DONT want to know". Thats my take on the ending.
Other fans have another theory. Some say Anna told Madam that there is no afterlife, and you simply relive your happy memories (in her case, her childhood with Lucy). The woman shot herself because she realised she wasted her life torturing innocent people and therefore she doesn't have happy memories to relive. All her memories are of pain.
You mean something similar to karma and reincarnation? Anyhow, as sadistic as the Madame was i highly doubt the Madame lived her whole life without ANY happy memories, so to me that theory falls short. However, i've read some comments and noted that people want to believe Anna tricked the Madame into either telling her A.Only hell exists or B.Only heaven exists (Both are reasons for the Madame not wanting to live anymore...ironically), in that way people see that Anna got her revenge. Personally i don't think it was revenge or a trick, just option A (the truth). Revenge/trick theory is just wishfull thinking of good finally triumphing in a twist, fact is this is a dark movie with an even darker meaning with such an end. Great movie with one of the most enigmatic endings in movie history for sure.
Anything is possible in a movie i guess. But to think that there is a human being that never had a happy memory in their life is unheard of, i don't even believe such a person ever existed. Sudden infant death might be the only exception, however one can argue if the baby could feel joy in a mothers womb (Im no specialist in this area though). Even people with EXTREMELY unfortunate lifes (there are many examples) must have felt joy at some point in their life, even for the briefest moment/s. Now im not talking about forgotten memories cause that is different case, i belive forgotten or surppressed memories are still physically there yet some people will never get them back.
I haven't seen this film, but have seen a scene by scene breakdown that to spare myself having to witness torture. I think it is a brilliant joke--a meta movie--about voyeurism, morbid curiosity and the inaccessibility of direct experience to those who would be voyeurs. I suspect the filmmaker is counting on people being so invested in this film because they "forced" themselves to sit through and witness torture, that they overcomplicate their analysis--in a similar way that the torturers seek to rationalize their sadistic desires and morbid curiosity by attaching some kind of spiritual or philosophical meaning to it all. I think Anna sees what we see that she sees--a bright light. This sounds like a cliche of any near death experience--but it is so brilliantly filmed (I did see the "eye" scene) that it connotes a deeper sensation beyond what is seen. However, only the martyr can truly experience this divine radiation or whatever it is. When she tells Madame---it sounds like the typical cliche we all hear from those near death experience accounts. Madame realizes that the experience is entirely inaccessible to a non-martyr and she kills herself because it's all for nothing. I can come to that conclusion without seeing the film--and falling for the trap of thinking it MUST be more complicated than it looks because damnit! I sat through all that torture and had so much invested...that is the same mistake Madame makes. It's brilliant--and I don't even need to watch someone being skinned alive and then toasted to get what he's trying to do...however, our minds get fogged if we inflict the film on ourselves, which I think is the point.
Great ending and I think the world wants to know what was said and we all have our own theories but I have an even bigger question............... why do they have dub anime voices lol
One of the theories I like the most is one that says Anna was pretending to be a martyr and in that few moments of consciousness she chose the right words as a sign of revenge, probably something that would make Mademoiselle lose all hope
Don’t get me wrong, I love this film. It’s such a masterpiece. But I sill can’t understand why the secret society let Mademoiselle get the testimony all alone, after all the "work" it required. What a dumb idea. It may be altered or lost (like it finally happened). Didn’t they have something to record properly idk ? 😂
Probably Anna told Mademoseille that the afterlife is just a valley of emptiness and that we don’t go anywhere especial after death, Mademoseille then realized that there was no love or joy in her life and the only reason for being alive after all those years was torturing and killing in a desperate search for answers, after realizing that it was all for an unfufilling answer she killed herself, trying to go on with her life was pointless.
I have read one theory where someone said heaven or afterlife is something that human being always wish to happen. In Anna case she loved someone wishes to live with her. Madamoisel was in tears and ask guy, “ can you dream or imagine afterlife?” And she quickly killed herself . No one would hurry to go hell. Anna has gone to heaven or pleasant afterlife that she wished. Madamoisel also wants that kind of heaven where she lives with those people who she truly loves. In Hindu holy book Gita Lord Krishna said same exact thing to warrior Arjuna. Arjuna was having war with his loved ones and he killed most of them. Arjuna was filled with guilt. Lord Krishna being spiritual guru showed Arjuna that his loved ones are happy in afterlife and they still love you. You have only killed their bodies but not soul. Once Arjuna dies he can join his loved ones that he killed in this world for some reasons. Madamoisel really had her own kind of afterlife that’s a big question though. No one knows about it. But Anna surely had some nice afterlife . Madamoisel does not tell anyone about afterlife how pleasant and beautiful it is. Because there will be mass suicide across the globe if everyone knows about it.
The word "keep doubting" is there is no afterlife, and all of their wrong doings and effort to know what is in the afterlife is a waste of time.... most of the cult member are elderly and maybe afraid of what is in after death...
Definitely what Mademoiselle heard was not good, her enthusiasm was zero. Her expression made it clear she didn't like what she heard and that she wished she never heard it. She says to "Keep doubting" as advice to them that they should continue to not know. Mademoiselle certainly was not in a rush to get to some great future. Also the fact that she kills herself so quick I'd think it's not a human idea of a terrible future either, why would she rush to 'hell'. I think what she heard was so bizarre and strange that she couldn't comprehend it or withstand living with that knowledge. I don't think it's a 'nothing' or 'meaningless' future either. There's just some secrets of the universe we're not meant to comprehend as humans. I feel like sometimes the universe is designed in such a way to almost protect our minds from it. We can't comprehend our universe, it's a complete miracle that we're here alive the way we are, just look out into infinite outer space... and you just have to trust that it knows what it's doing. There's one reason that I wouldn't fear death, because the fact that we're here as we are now, you just have to trust it knows what it's doing. I also like to think that Anna lied to her. I would've lied if I could've...
What if the truth was reincarnation? Starting your life over again in an alternate timeline. Maybe the temptation of starting over again with a clean slate was too much even though she couldn't be sure that Anna was really telling the truth, and obviously once she's dead she can't tell the others for sure. Maybe she just couldn't allow all of her followers to take the same risk with only one confession to go off of.
well it is quite obvious that Anna saw something, a white light that looked like a gateway or a living thing. She was in that place for around 2 hrs. So she must have been there, in the after-life. However what she must have told Mademoiselle is that "there is a place of bliss after death, however people who have commited a great sin can not reach such a place". This obviously goes agains the believe of the cult. They believed that if there is an afterlife anyone would go there, you don't necessarily have to believe in a God, however there is such a thing as karma, you always get what you deserve. So, all the cult members have commited a great sin and non of them will ever reach that place. Its ironic that the once who were so obsessed with this "other wolrd" and were willing to do whatever it took to hear about it ( they were obviously too cowardly to go through torture themselves to see it) are the once denied that access, while the once who just lived their lives as normal can get to it after death. So what was Mademoiselle supposed to say to hear followers, , tell them the truth? that would have lead to depression and probably anger that time and money has been wasted. lie to them? sure that would have made everyone happy but the truth of never being able to see the place herself made her kill herself. The only thing that drove her and gave her purpose was to find out about the after-life and go there herself, knowing there is a place after death.
My theory is that it won't end well for her, nor good. It'll just end. She knows this, and with knowing this she knows that whatever else she does in life will be pointless since it'll end in nothingness. Knowing this makes living on wards meaningless have this knowledge, always with you, in the back of your mind. That's why she didn't say anything to Ettienne. He should keep doubting and live in total obliviousness about the afterlife and try and still get the best out of life while he can. It's starting a book, knowing how it will end and realizing that the story is done, with nothing happening after it.
I think the best theory I've heard for this ending was that Anna saw the afterlife, but that no one in the Society could go there because of what they've done to their victims. That would be a great ending and a great case of poetic justice.
I like this idea you have.
Well in a way that is the true ending. Just from your own interpretation, because it was was set up to do so.
It goes without saying that of course the members of the Society would not be accepted on whatever that sh*t is in the afterlife. I feel that after all we went through watching this film we DESERVED an answer as to what they were expecting.
That's too simple. And it makes no sense with her saying "keep doubting."
and then she forgave the evil people who skinned her alive....
This movie was pretty similar to the creepypasta "gateway of the mind"
In the end of that story the test subject tells the doctor "I've talked to god and he has abandoned us"
+Bronze Serpent That's similar to my theory of what she saw. That there is a God and afterlife but humans will never get to ascend to that plane.
Maybe the afterlife sounded so cool and she couldn't wait?
Maybe the girl showed her hell
If you think with pure logic, the only thing that is reasonable it's that all martyrs are feeling but not seeing anything at all, that is agonizing pain. All was meaningless, what proof the kind of egoistic sadists a human been can be just to satisfice their vanity.
Hola Hola so the ending means that it was all useless? all the time they couldn't see anything?
EatitHarvey No because mademoiselle told Etienne to keep doubting.
+Elisa Mondragon Right but even that could be interpreted in a few different ways. Was she being sarcastic ? or did she mean it literally. Either way great scene
There's so many open endings to this:
The afterlife was too good and she couldn't wait
There was no afterlife for anyone, so there was no point
There was no good afterlife for those who made others suffer, so there was no point either
Goes on and on...
i agree with 1 and 2, but im not sure she would end her life if she knew that something horrible was waiting for her on the other side
@@jeanlouis1898 yea, i believe in nr 1 the most.
@@jeanlouis1898 the only thing which would be so horrible would be a let down to the secret society
Or Anna saw everything but decided not to tell them as they tortured her.
She saw lucy…
Look at that bunch. Wealthy people, all wrinkled like a prune. What's the point of all the torture? Life after death? Maybe. But for them I think it will be an eternity in Hell. Those people are delusional. There is no sanity in what they believe and do. It's just pure evil. If they want answers, then why don't they endure the pain themselves.
Exactly! It was disgusting what they did to those girls. They ruined those girls life for nothing!
Didn't the girl let them do those things to her?
@@XtreemMetalManRedToTheBone nope
@KGB - Комитет Государственной Безопасности das Leben danach is kein Leben in dieser Form. Wieso schreibst du überall lügen?
Still a film that I have only seen once. Because once was enough. Not that it was a bad film. Quite the contrary. But what they did to that poor girl at the end, and all I had emotionally invested, when it was all said and done I felt like this movie hurt my soul.
I still think about this ending after all these years. At first I thought the cult leader was simply in a rush to get to the blissful pain of on uncertain afterlife. But after watching this clip again, I take the phrase "keep doubting Etienne" as a warning. Of course I could be wrong. But I feel like there is a specific reason why she killed herself before addressing her group. Especially since this was the first Martyr (supposedly) who actually passed the trials and then spoke. I think she realized that all of her/their work was for naught. It was all in vain. The cult leader could not bare to lie to these people who have followed her for so long. And the fact that she had destroyed so many innocent lives for no good reason was too much to deal with.
Then again, saying "keep doubting Etienne" could also be interpreted as a hint to keep being curious until one truly reaches a conclusion in their own.
Either way, this a horror movie that succeeded on many levels. Any film that still makes you think about it after almost ten years of seeing it only once, is a good film.
But that poor girl at the end. Fuck, why they have to do that to her?
It's unfortunate that this movie affected you in this manner, but I can't see the words of anyone as such leaving a stamp in my mind. Being that how can someone so empty, broken and cruel be able to utter words that are worth listening to, much less taking serious?!? Listening (not to be confused with hearing) to someone like her is equivalent to listening to the warnings of a thief that has intentions of robbing/hurting you......but casually warns you about another thief that has intentions to do the same. Nothing but empty nothings. I highly doubt she was concerned about the group. If they had test subjects in the past, they are bound to have test subjects in the future, as the experiment/investment isn't hurting them or their pockets. They go after what they refer to as the vulnerable, uncared for and abandoned types. Words like be curious, vulnerable, keep the faith hope and be open minded are just to set those up that don't know any better. You can't expect or accept good advice or good words from anyone that is out to deceive you or hurt you. That is the biggest mind fuck of all mind fucks
Did she let them do that to her or did she resist?
Idk which was worse. What they did to the main character, or what they did to the woman she found in the torture room. The one they had nailed the freaking helmet onto her head and covered her body in scars. That one bothered me a lot more. She had clearly lost her mind for some time. She didn't even seem human anymore. But why did they do THAT? They had the goal of learning about the afterlife with the main character. But with that girl, it was just extreme cruelty for no reason other than being cruel. You're right though, this movie gets you thinking
yes I had the same still after al these years I still wonder why she killed herself but this is the best motive
Why did they do it to Jesus? There is a clear reference to Christ, she was hanging like Christ after the extreme torture. Then she was in ecstasy between 12:15 and 2.30 PM. At 3 Pm she reported her vision to Mademoiselle. According to the Bible Christ was crucified either on 9.00 AM or around noon and died around 3 .00 PM. Her ecstasy and " confession" covered this part of the day. Mademoiselle also said the Martyrs go through the process of transfiguration, ( like Jesus did ). The whole congregation looked like a satanic cult , like the people from " Rosemary's baby ". What they did was utterly Evil, it's beyond words. I think Anna told Mademoiselle that there is a Divine Justice in the afterworld and hell is a part of it, as a real place, there is no escape from the divine terror. She says " keep doubting " because it's better not to know for someone like Etienne and the rest of the cult. Perhaps also by killing herself she wanted them to stop what they were doing.
Ending kinda gave me the vibe of something found in Lovecraftian horror. In the search for an afterlife, heaven, or hell, perhaps she saw something so incomprehensible that mankind could never truly understand. They say that Anna had progressed further than any other subject, but perhaps the previous subjects hinted at something similar and were simply ignored. Mademoiselle seems the most knowledgeable of the project and maybe Anna's words finally convinced her of something she alone had pieced together. In fact she may have even theorized something that the other members didn't agree with and the words "keep doubting," was her way of telling them that she was right.
@KGB - Комитет Государственной Безопасности nein
After all the psychological and physical torture they think she's fit to give answers.
The idea of no afterlife being the result in the film is a stupid idea because she would just view this person as another failure and move on to the next victim. She wouldn't have killed herself over her victim saying anything to that effect. Plus, you don't prove something doesn't exist like that. You can only prove it does.
Also, the idea of her saying there is one, but you are going to hell or some equivalent of such would hardly have her kill herself. You don't expedite your arrival at something horrible. You prolong life at that point.
The only reasonable conclusion is she said there is something there. Having that knowledge, she was gladly willing to take her own life and get there.
The only question is whether the victim was telling the truth or not. They were torturing her until they got a result that they wanted so she might as well have just said there was one and then maybe they would put her out of her misery and she could just die.
Its funny because we don't know what did the "Martir" said to the old woman, so everything you can think about it is just a bunch of expectations based on your personal beliefs.
Ok with all you said but then why would she say to etienne "keep doubting"?
+SarahlovesSerge because she's a bitch
+Tiago Bareiro exactly we have no clue and I love how it leaves it for the viewer to decide. I mean Shit she could have said so many things that made the old bat blow her head off ! what she saw was the most joyful & blissful thing imaginable total pure ecstasy ! Or it could of been the complete opposite of that GOD has abandoned us all or the after life is pure suffering & agony it makes what I went through look like a cake walk ,who the hell knows ?
true
To live is to suffer... to die is the meaning of end of suffering...
@Sin Unknown I've always loved that quote. I heard it 4 the 1st time back in the 2000's on DMX's song "SLIPPING"
Everybody is so busy discussing what Anna had witnessed/told Mademoiselle- that they fail to realize that it is unimportant to the story. It's not what exists after death that causes Mademoiselle to take her own life, it's the fact that she knows. Why keep living when she knows what will come after death? Her life's work is done and she now has nothing to live for. By not telling the rest of the society what Anna had witnessed, she saved their lives by giving them purpose to keep on going.
Oui
Good point. That's why she told the butler to keep doubting - which is worded or translated awkwardly, but I think she meant keep wondering.
Interesting
My theory is that anna said there's no afterlife and mademoiselle realized it was all for naught and told etienne to keep doubting coz it's what keeping them curious and alive
I agree 100%....
@@crashverde1686 That's very likely. Under extreme suffering the brain releases chemicals to deal with the pain and a lot of them can induce hallucinations as a way to "detach" from the physical body that hurts way too much. The fact that this cult did not take that into account proves how far gone and desperate they were.
Then why invite the whole club over for the announcement? She must have decided to kill her self while waiting for the others to come
@KGB - Комитет Государственной Безопасности i dont think so. I was death for a while
i mean, based on the fact that we will ALL die at some point. it seems kind a pointless to get to those extremes to findd out. if there is something after death you will obviously find out eventually. i know is a movie but how can they discard the fact that she could easily be hallucinating due to trauma anyways? people say and see crazy things before they die, it could all be product of a malfunctioning brain.
i liked the movie anyways
I think the point wasnt in knowing what is in afterlife. They wanted THE PROOF so everone could be believers like they were
Kulascus
i guess that makes sense, like a peace of mind to know you are good when you die or whatever.
I have the answer. I dearly wish I didn't. Best people do not ask such question.
give it to us then....give up being selfish dude...
Lol you just killed the movie
Gracias
I need the director to tell me the ending. I felt like blowing my mind after watching the movie
@KGB - Комитет Государственной Безопасности why do u think that?
@le chiffre what About hell? Those were demons
Anna did saw an afterlife that is the reason we are shown a small part of her vision which is light at the end of a black tunnel with heavenly voices. She must have told her that the other world exist and it sounded so wonderful that the lady could not wait to join that other world. That is the reason she said "keep doubting" and shot herself because if other's would know about it they would all kill themselves to join the heavenly realm and the very purpose of living will cease to exist.
No lol. They would not sniff the heavenly realm.
i don't think she said there is no afterlife, because mademoiselle is too cold and cruel to kill herself because of guilt for having tortured many innocents for nothing. I'm pretty sure hanna lied and said the afterlife is great and all so the old witch kills herself. it was her revenge. Like that, everyone believe the organisation won, but in fact, it's hanna who win
exactly she lied and said the good parts of the after life and didn't tell her about hell
what do you mean by win?! wtf is this with folk needing to win?!? Life isn't a fucking track field, as there are females and males that have endured a lot of fuckery from folk throughout life. Some persevered and made it through, while others fell by the wayside! What's even more pathetic, there are those that know as well as are aware of it. but for reasons like money and their desperate need to be liked...... they walk away and turn a blind eye to the haggish behavior that continues. Do you think that someone who has to endure fuckeries as such is looking to win, as there is no prize. That's nothing but egotistically, showman talk. That woman choosing to kill herself doesn't make folk like her disappear, as someone as such will appear within the hour. So based on what you've said, this girls whole life was a competition and enduring all that she had was worth it in the end because she won............. interesting.
@@pahzplace7853 calm yourself mate...
I think youre right.
I hate this philosophy about modern protagonists needing to "win"
Fuck off, she was in a transcendental state, there are much more important stuff than winning in these cases
great film...better ending,
could interpret as she killed herself because there was no afterlife (they wasted their time and hurt humanity in the process). could also intrepret she saw there was an after life and killed herself to join it.............or that there was an after life, and was told she created a great sin, and killed herself in despair.
anyway you want to view the ending according to your bias is valid....thus a perfect ending.
zostria1 well...you fall under my first possible interpretation (the one i see).
I been wondering what the end means for yrs and I stil cant figure it out. I just don't understand why the guy at the end didn't tell the crowd what she heard from anna. and then kill her self if that is what she wanted to do.
oscarmosca1234 She told her something good so she would want to kill herself. She got revenge for what she was put through. Simple as that.
Matt Lee Point being she saw nothing and just made up some shit.
Matt Lee Stories like this are intentionally left open-ended to allow for interpretation.
The ending makes sense PERFECTLY, in my opinion. You better not know the truth, because "not knowing" is actually what makes people want to live. It's not even important what she learned from Ana. Look, everything she lived for, including 17 years of brutal experiments, faith and hope has faded away. Most likely, she learned that there's no afterlife and no God, you can figure it out based on her actions before she killed herself. The point is that a lot of people want to live because they have hope and they keep questioning. And when she said "keep doubting" she decided to take the knowledge with her and not ruin other people lives. So she's a good guy in the end. This is definitely very strong movie and very clear message - don't ask what's in there, you are not supposed to know!
Yeah, it's obvious that she doesn't want the others to know what she found out, but my issue is that if she finds out that there is nothing, or even hell, why would she be in such a hurry to get there? If I found out for sure that after this life there is nothing else, I would want to live the rest of my life that I had left. My interpretation is that you are right, she found out there is nothing, but realizes that if this truth is known to the people, then no one would have any reason to be civilized to each other any more if they know that there aren't any otherworldly consequences. So, in a sense, she becomes a martyr herself to save the people from what would happen if we knew that no matter what we did in life wouldn't matter after we die. Just my interpretation. I think it's left for people to make up their own.
I have 5 scenarios
1.Heaven for all.
Everyone goes to heaven and be happy.So it doesn't matter whether they continue the experiments or not,in the end everyone will find peace.Also the testimony was so eloquent and beautiful that she could not do it any justice reciting it.The group have to hear it for them selves or experience it.So she takes her life and leaves her protegee a challenge to find the next Martyr.
2.Eternal hell.
Doom pain and torture for everyone.Martyrs are peaceful because they are already in pain and they are content.Woman shoots herself out of despair and she doesn't say anything because she doesn't want the group to lose hope.
3.Typical heaven and hell.
Martyrs in heaven and the women and group in hell.This makes all of them Martyrs.
4.No afterlife.
Martyr some how sees the complete void after death and shares this info.
5.There is an after life.
Completely different life with Gods and Monsters and what ever you can imagine.Woman is completely satisfied.But she realises she has all the answers and there is nothing to live for.While the Martyrs are peaceful with the complete knowledge, the Woman is not a Martyr herself and cannot handle this.
how she was so kind to not let people's lives ruined when she was the one responsible to the tortures?
She was not torturing them for her satisfaction. She was trying to find out why some people, when on the verge of a painful death appear calm.People have done worse things in the name of their believes.
Or she could have just said nothing or made something up... She didn't have to die. She also could have been given a totally different explanation of the afterlife. Perhaps there is no After just continuation in different forms. Death is just the transition....
she told him to keep doubting... to me that means to keep seeking the truth, to keep the program going. or it could mean that there was nothing and to keep doubting as in your doubts are justified that there is nothing. All i know is that i'm pretty sure if it was good news she would have shared it.
Translation for “doubt” in a lot of languages is to “question”. In USA it means to not believe, but opposite in other countries I noticed. Particularly Brazil Portuguese
When Anna's hallucination ended, she only saw the Void. There is no afterlife. All came from the Void. All shall return to the Void.
Why would she kill herself if the afterlife was too much to handle? Wouldn't she want to not go to the afterlife? Maybe she killed herself because she spent her whole life trying to find the answer and now she had it and her life had no more meaning?
wrong
would you prolong your life living with the torture of knowing that every moment for the rest of your life, your only thoughts are now focused on that afterlife. Even if it meant damnation for her. the torture of knowing what is waiting for you at the end is far more painful than giving yourself to it
@@sabrinafojo2490 🤡💩💩
I guess thats the best possible so far i mean why would people in such cult even care for the other members, they are literally ready to do anything for theyr own sick interrests so they have 0 morals ,intergrity and so on, once she knows she prefers to take the secret in her grave as last f you, also when she tells him to "keep doubting" to make them continue with the making of martyrs, shows that she has no reason for remorse or to seek salvation. But still not sure it doesnt feel 100% right, mayby she doesn't care to make the cult stop and kills herself because just like the afterlife we just cant imagine her "Reasons" after being telled the unimaginable wich drives her crazy because shes not ready for the afterlife.
I think Anna told her there is an afterlife, and what it is like, which may be more mind blowing than anyone could imagine. Madam asked Eitenne if he could imagine an afterlife (the subtext being whether he truly believed there was one), and when he answered truthfully, she didn’t bother to tell him what Anna said (probably disappointed by him due to his lack of faith), mocking him by telling him to “keep doubting”, then she killed herself, bcuz she no longer feared death. I think that was the whole point of their cult - they wanted to no longer fear death.
I think the whole point is that we are not supposed to understand exactly what she saw and it is supposed to be completely incomprehensible to everyone else other than Ana and Mademoiselle. So what I think happened is this: You can see life or the point of life as something akin to a puzzle for instance (at least from the cult's perspective) and just as a puzzle has no worth if you now the answer/key beforehand, life has no meaning if you've achieved the knowledge of what it actually means or what its' point is through somewhat understanding afterlife. That explains why she has a content demeanour before her suicide as well as why she tells Etienne (and basically rest of the cult members) to keep doubting which means to keep searching for the key to the "puzzle" instead of just outright telling them the answer hence making their lives pointless at that instant.
So badly dubbed, I feel like I'm playing Time Crisis at a motorway services
She killed herself because what she knows is enormously horrible and she can't live with that, that's why she tells to Ettienne to still wondering
You are right, but so is everybody else at the same time. The ending is correct for the person who decides what they think happened.
G4nst4Ch33se Exactly, that's why i hold this film in such high regard because of it's many brilliant scenes and of course it's ending.
You are a character in a book. None of this is real. After we go to sleep or what we know as die, we simply become character in a different book. If we were good we become awesome characters who get to have fun in our story and if we are bad we become suffering bitter characters who can't experience joy and delight. So there you go. So the woman, realising her character is this ugly old bitter evil lady who tortures kids decides to end her character in this tale to see where her next life will take her.
I wish I could give you a standing ovation.
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
and we have to believe none of these "scientists" were able to think of the idea of recording Anna's testimony??
....dude....delete this comment, FBI OPEN UP
it's not that they didn't think to record it. The Countess wanted to know it first, and wanted to be the only to hear it. She wanted to be the one to disseminate the info to the rest.
I feel... afterlife was too much to bear, and too horrid. Nothing a human should ever witness. This movie shook me...
Have you ever thought ,maybe hell is like an eternity not just 50 or 60 years of the things the girls went through...with absolutely no hope?
And maybe we must truly understand...try to figure a way out in our time here..before it's too late...if we don't we will only have ourselves to blame.
but if that's the case why would she expedite her trip to hell? it makes more sense that she wanted to get to paradise, or she was told that there is nothing and her life has been in vein so she ended it......i cant imagine someone killing themselves knowing that hell is waiting for them
@@jeanlouis1898 it doesn't matter. As harsh as it is.... only hell is waiting for us after we kill ourselves if there really is an afterlife.
@@ibukisunshine-gaka3832 I agree with that, but why rush to go there? Lol
@@jeanlouis1898 I think the theory that she told Madmasiele (or how to spell it) that only hell is waiting for her or no afterlife isn't true. She must have told her that the afterlife is beautiful and that everything they do in this earth is for nothing bc our whole point of life is to die at the end anyways, so she tricked madomasielle while the hell was waiting for her all along.
Theyre already in the afterlife. Theyre already in hell. Once you die you are reborn in this eternal cycle with your previous memories of loved ones gone.
I think I figured out the reason why the old lady ended her life without telling anyone the truth. It doesn't make sense that she would be selfish with the rest of the Society if the afterlife was great. I also don't think she would keep it from them if they were all going to hell anyway, I think she would tell them all just to give them a chance to make their own decision about whether to end their lives immediately or not.
No, I think the real reason why she didn't tell anyone is that having knowledge beyond human comprehension is supposed to be a grave sin. This is why consorting with demons is a huge no-no in many religions, because they can give you knowledge you're not supposed to have. Even if you didn't participate in the torture, gaining knowledge about the afterlife from a martyr is probably enough to land someone in hell. So she didn't tell anyone to save most of humanity from this immediate downfall. I actually think the old lady was doing everyone a favor.
The funniest ending to a horror movie. The most biggest fuck you in cinematic history. To know what lays afterwords and get the people who have spent their lives to finally know whats beyond death. Just to know that the only person who was successful to find out, kills herself in the bathroom upstairs and goes straight onto what she knew. Love it
"Keep doubting" either it meant she discovered there was paradise after death or it could mean the sacrifice was all in vain and it was another human was wasted.
Best theory is whatever Anna told her ended the need to keep going. The not knowing what’s after death is what keeps us living. So by saying “keep doubting “ mademoiselle is saying don’t try to remove the unknown or it will no longer be necessary to live. Kinda like if you knew the ending to a movie the need to watch it or that desire to watch it is removed. Or if you play the lottery but were told ahead that for sure you will not win ever, you wouldn’t go buying mad lotto tickets. So in the end, what keeps us moving is the unknown. And knowing that unknown removes the desire or want to live
no afterlife because her last words are "keep doubting ettinne"
Its hard to know what was said in the last scene, which was a shame because it ruined the film.I agree there was probably no afterlife hence the old woman was shocked and shot herself, but who really knows what was meant by the end of the film.
crozzmglen I found out what was said by mistake as I was surfing youtube I came across the true story this was based on (it was an old athiest man that it happened too). What he said after having gone through all of that suffering was..."I MET GOD AND HE HAS ABANDONED US". then died. smh shook my soul.
TruthSeekr5000 could u please share this link that u came across plz?
TruthSeekr5000 I wonder if ."I MET GOD AND HE HAS ABANDONED US" (if something like that in fact was ever said, but I can see it being that kind of message) was directed at them specifically or humankind in general. If just them she may have killed herself to protect the society from the continual grief, fear, and despair they would feel for the rest of their lives.
Yeah, because maybe Anna said I saw nothing... and then the lady said Keep Doubting
What gets me is, how do they assume what the victims are saying or describing are truly visions of the after life, they could just be hallucinating from the abysmal amount of pain, or they could be going insane from it, being beaten to non-stop, and then having your entire suit of skin removed from your body could cause so much pain, your brain prolly couldn't deal with it, and you'd go insane, just a thought, or thoughts.
well i think that's the point, your body has to be in a state of complete shock or trauma to reach that state, that thin line between life and death so you can "witness" what's on the other side
old WITCH: "Etienne, have you ever tried to imagine the other world?"
Etienne:: "I am afraid - not"
old WITCH: "keep doubting Etienne.."
and she kills herself.
which means:
we still have no answers, Etienne. you can keep doubting... but I am going to find it out myself. right now! (and she kills herself)
+Crestoify
ANOTHER FANNIBAL!!!!!
+Dylan's Fear Files YES!
yez, i gree
NukSooKow 1980 True bro, and for Etienne he could just be a bodyguard or something so he isn't real interested about the after-life or doesn't even believe in it
Crestoify Wow. very good analogy!!!!
Even better ending would have been creating a bomb to take them all out with her... Ending any effort to retry the experiments.
She seemed way more shocked about hearing there is no afterlife/that the whole procedure was useless than she seemed euphoric. I think thats pretty obvious
@KGB - Комитет Государственной Безопасности realität ist erschaffen und eher eine Weltbildfrage. Das macht also keinen Sinn
I find it disturbing that there are actually ppl like this, that belong to groups like this. If the mind can think it up, then it has been done or will be done.
It makes no sense for her to kill herself because there is an afterlife and she wanted to get there faster. None of that makes sense. She would have shared the good news with her cult. After all. That's why its a cult and not just one serial killer. They all want to know the secrets of the afterlife. Anna must have told her something she didn't want to hear. I don't think she had any guilt. I don't think she cared much about life at all. Just the afterlife. That's why she didn't hesitate to kill all those people and that's why she didn't hesitate to kill herself. Once she found out whatever Anna told her, everything she ever worked for or cared about must have gone out the window, therefore giving her no reason to live anymore. Plus she's old!! Imagine living most of her life with this belief of the afterlife and suddenly, after witnessing what she believed was an exceptional martyr tells her that the afterlife does not exist or that the afterlife does exist but she has no chance of getting in. That's like a hardcore Christian meeting Jesus and finding out that he was really just a man and not the son of God. When that's all you care about and you find out it's not even real, it's like, what else is there to live for?
She was told there was no afterlife. Her soul purpose in life was discovering if there was. Therefore rather than take that purpose away from Etienne, she told him to "keep doubting" so he still had purpose. She killed herself because there was no point anymore, and rather than face her followers only to tell them what they have been doing for the last 17 years was in vain, she would rather kill herself. Good riddance.
@@krichard8509 More to it.
@@krichard8509 I agree 100%, she was told that there is nothing after death so madame killed herself because there is no meaning to life and from the guilt of the suffering she caused...(imo)
Another plausible theory is that the old lady found out that she is not supposed to disclose the true nature of the afterlife. She had to kill herself to avoid the endless inquiries from her colleagues including possible torture. She killed herself to avoid torture and make sure that the truth stays with her.
This I think is also why she said keep doubting at the end.
THIS ENDING...no doubt this is one of my favorite ending....normally i don't like it when the movie dosent get to the point but this one is so SO GOOD
this ending is actually perfect in the context of the movie...we're not meant to know what's waiting for us in the afterlife, if there's anything at all...so how can a movie answer the question for us? we decide for ourselves
Be a good person, if your gods just he will understand
My theory: the insight of the afterlife broke her mind, thats why there is just no sense to her actions, we just cant get the head arround what her motivations or reasons are, like we cant get our heads arround how the afterlife looks, get me? Having insight of a thing like afterlife could very likely corrupt the mind, i heard if we could see the whole time in existence at once it would be probalby to much for a human brain to handle thats why we have past, and present understanding.
I tend to look at it the Dante's way: in the afterlife the damned souls understand all their sins, for that reason they WANT to suffer to keep away the pain of never being able to gaze to the Holy Grace. As Madamoiselle is told about it she loses every hope and tells Etienne to keep doubting, to spare him some time before the everlasting self damnation
“What did you see?”
“Nothing.”
My favorite take on this is that Anna simply told Madame her best memory in life. That could be what we see in the credits: Anna and Lucie playing together as kids.
There is no afterlife, which is the most rational thing to conclude also in real life and Madame could have finally come to this conclusion as well. Thus, she saw no value in her life anymore and told the others to keep doubting. She's part of a cult/religious group that expects that there is something after death. So, it would make perfect sense that Madame killed herself because she was kicked out of her delusion and wanted the others to stay there.
A far more interesting question than "why did Madame kill herself?" to me is "why did they do this in the first place?" What kind of doctrine would you have to create? Voltaire once said "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
It must have been similar to some real life examples like the Jonestown massacre.
I really don't believe that the movie suddenly went supernatural (even though it tried to misguide the viewer with supposedly supernatural beings in the beginning). So, it would be very silly if there was an afterlife from which Anna came back. This is not "God's not dead", people, this is a fucking brilliant horror masterpiece.
@@dzretromachine I disagree. That scene doesn't show anything but a light. There is no paradise or heaven, just a light. People in real life have reported to see a light when they were close to death. It is still very likely that the lights go out forever afterwards. I mean, the lights were out billions of years before you were born, so it would make sense to go back to that state. To think that after death you are entitled to get to know the secret of the Universe is a bit arrogant don't you think? The Universe owes us nothing. Furthermore, think about this: if I remove your brain piece by piece you'll fade away piece by piece. Where is the part of you that I have removed? Is it already on the other side?
@KGB - Комитет Государственной Безопасности beschäftige dich mit der Wahrheit. "Gott" ist nicht was du denkst
wtf did I just watched??...I need therapy.
such a great film such a pity more horrors aren't made this way! never wanted a character/villain in a movie to get their comeuppance as much as i did the bald guy who tortured anna and then skinned her alive, i would root for a sequel just to see that haha
what did you see? the girl suffered horrifically and the lady died in a split second. no pain, no afterlife for pain. The old lady won
I think asking what the other world is is the wrong question. The movie states there are two types of people, people who succumb to pain and die and martyrs who endure pain. Knowledge of the other world is excruciating pain for some reason or other and Mademoiselle is no Martyr.
Hilarious seeing the Just For Laughs Gags guy in this movie. Definitely makes an interesting resume. @0:23
But if there wasn't why didn't she tell the other members? It would've stopped them torturing people, but by the look of Mademoiselle at the end it looks like she was told that there was something more than being told there was nothing.
Onmysheet Probably that will go to hell for torturing people.
Asking if you still believe and then telling him to keep doubting means that they are introducing a new mystery into the story. essentially a cliffhanger for a sequel. because Unless they assess that we can deduce their belief system that she asks him about then we can't begin to assume what part of his belief or religion that he (and they) doubt. I've gotta ask some people smarter than me to assess this. Also wanted to note. that BANGING intro was just as good as that BANGING outro, right? succinct storytelling at its finest
I see it as her knowing a truth that is too much for her to even comprehend (hence the whole "transcendental" theme of the movie...
if she believed torture brings one to revelation of the truth, then she "gifted" him with the torture of perpetual doubt and not knowing that which he coveted to know, ironically propelling him to know for himself and still live, what she would find out through her premature death, making them both martyrs which balances their karma of creating martyrs through their torturing of them. She gifted herself and him with balanced karma in an attempt to guarantee them peace in life and death. The audience is intentionally tortured by "keeping doubting" the meaning of the "end" which is an experiential metaphor of the cult's obsession with knowing "the end" of life. (i haven't watched the movie but i read the comments so this is my impression).
@KGB - Комитет Государственной Безопасности no
I always thought 'keep doubting' was sarcasm.
"Keep doubting"?
Correct my ignorance here guys, but I thought they never had "doubts" of an afterlife, but rather it would have made more sense that she said "keep believing".
@KGB - Komitet Gosudarstvennoy Bezopasnosti I think that's a stretch. Simply because they never once eluded to that theory you are raising. That said, if I understand you correctly, its to "keep doubting" that this life you are living is indeed "real"?
because, once you know what the other world is like, you really don't see any reason to stay here on earth anymore
"We never really die" from Lucy (Movie)
HAHAHAHAHA
Now this is Lovecraftian horror.
It's hard to believe that if what she was told was that life had no meaning and nothing happens when you die; that'd she'd rush to her own demise. She ends her life because she can no longer wait but also eludes that it's worth waiting for. Idk man. I'm just walking down so many alley ways with this one.
She said "one two freddys coming for you"
I've always seen it the way in she killed herself to get to the afterlife and all the torturing and killing was obviously a selfish act by the lady she didn't give a shit about others or others believing that was all "something to do" while waiting for an answer and she had every intent in keeping the information for herself. After seeing this movie years ago I looked forever for an answer on the ending and when someone popped on Reddit a couple years back and said they knew people who had worked on the film closely and worked on it themselves in another country (I read this and they posted a timestamp with proof in screenshots of emails with staff and another redditor translated them I even tried looking the text myself in Google translate) that said the ending was in fact because she wanted to enter the afterlife it just further re confirmed my belief in what I thought the ending was all along. Now who knows they could really be bullshitting but it was a very elaborate way to do so
Wish they would let me post the link. I think it's still saved on my Reddit account. I favorited it.
*Doesn't the ending mean she is the true Martyr? Dying for her cause?*
No
Quinton miller yes
This explains everything. Etian doesnt believe (doubt) and doesnt even care about the other world.
There's no other world.
Those people remind me of the Hollywood liberal elite.
and Reaper got it RIGHT
youre joking right? you seriously think religious conservatives run hollywood? dont be stupid
I thought the same thing... This movie revealed what they really do behind closed doors. It's too in-depth not to have any truth to it.
@@IamTechNerd It's liberals you idiot... Liberals are the demonic serving ones.
@@wdrumz you gringos are so funny, as a south american who is really used to corruption i can say, reps and dems are the same shit when it comes to perverted corruption. Liberals claim inocence because their party defends minorities and reps claim being inocence because they are conservatives who like ol' mama apple pie and traditional families. But let me remind you something, Jeffrey Epstein had pics with both Trump and Clinton.
I noticed how all the people in that cult were old . So that tells me there scared of what might happen to them soon that's why they want to know
I think Anna saw the afterlife what made her see that knowing the afterlife cannot be survived. Anna told Mademoiselle what she saw out of revenge so Mademoiselle needs to die too. Mademoiselle didn't tell them to protect them from death and because doubting is what creates life in the first place. It wasn't really a suicide. It's the way we would interpret her death but it's actually death taking her to the afterlife without her consent. Lucy also appeared to commit suicide but it maybe was the demon woman she appeared to be haunted by.
At least this is how I interpret this scene.
Once knowing the afterlife there’s no purpose of living,she avoided telling them so they can still have purpose in living ,must have been way too intense
Monsieur Laugier might be like to say there's really nothing more in the afterlife, so everyone dead has its own life after death, and we keep doubting of it
Anna saw everything but decided not to tell them the truth as they tortured her.
Thats martyrs that get slain for saving me and my children
The ending was pretty obvious if you think about it. If you are being tortured by religious fanatics and they seek an afterlife and will go to any means to find out if there is one, the best way to seek revenge would be to make them feel worthless and horrible about themselves by saying there is nothing, which is why she kills herself maybe due to guilt or disappointment.
there is no afterlife. That is why she said to her butler "keep doubting". Her life work meant nothing and she couldn't bear to tell anyone else.
I haven't seen this film but from what I gather the premise is dumb as hell, but then people really are this dumb so it's quite realistic in that respect I suppose. You can't see what life after death is like if you haven't died, in which case you can't come back and tell anyone because it means you're not dead. Is that difficult for some people to understand? Ok so I'm going to waffle on about philosophy and what death is for a bit. Maybe it's because I'm intoxicated, maybe I'm a great sage and this is my purpose in life, or maybe I'm just intoxicated. Pay it no mind if you don't enjoy such things, fair warning. ...................... Really saying "life after death" is a oxymoron anyway, if you're experiencing life you're not dead. What people really mean isn't life after death, or even consciousness after death. What they want is their own sense of self to continue floating around on some higher dimension, but if you really go into what that would be like could you even still consider it you anymore if that were the case? If you try and pin down what "you" are that isn't based on what you're actually experiencing or have experienced to you in your physical body you'll never be able to do it. Imagine if you had all your memories wiped, including any muscle memory so no long term "I don't know how I knew how to do that" moments. Would you still be you? What if just suppose that's what happened to you when you died. So imagine if your "consciousness" really did drift off into the astral plain, except your memory wiped 100% clean and with zero possible way to sense anything at all. No pain, no hunger, cold, hot, sadness, loneliness, thirsty. Even if it were possible to think, you'd not have any ability to talk to yourself in any language because you don't know any.
For you there'd be no sense of time, no sense of anything at all. Even if you had the capacity to ponder and have an emotion there's no pressures to feel anything at all. With no sense of time any moment is just the same as any other, you don't know what unhappiness is because you don't know what it's like to be happy and you don't have any way to be happy because there's no sensory input and no reason to feel rewarded anymore. We enjoy something like ice cream because our brain likes the taste and texture. But if we slightly change our taste perception and we hate it, or if we had to eat ice cream 24/7 we'd get bored of it. With no reason to feel hungry and no way to taste it there'd be no enjoyment to be gotten from our favourite foods even if they were there, nor would we know it was meant to be eaten or what it would mean to eat anyway. The point is, if your "ego", your "self", really did float off into the ether or whatever you want to call it when you died, if this is what it was like, in what practical way would that be different to complete annihilation? How would you even know you were alive in such as scenario?
If you're like me, if you go under general anaesthetic for surgery it feels like zero time has passed from when you drift off to when you awake. And if you do believe you do experience something then I'm sure you can remember some time where you've slept so deeply and totally you had a similar experience. During this period from your point of view you were experiencing "nothing", but that sounds silly because obviously you didn't experience anything. You only know time has past because when you awoke people around you tell you X amount of time has gone by, and you can look up the time and date. But what happened to "you" in that period of time? We'd say you were still there, just unconscious. You're aware of there being a before and an after because you still remember being put unconscious and you know why you're in the hospital. Your mind puts what happened into that context and it makes sense, you don't remember it but time past and now you're awake again. Of course we wouldn't say you were "dead" when you were in that state, we'd say you were just in a deep sleep and now you''re awake again. And that makes complete sense obviously as someone that's died is in a very different state to being deeply unconscious. But practically speaking from your perception, could you say what the difference would be to you if you had died, compared with just never waking up again? If I was told that I was going to die on the operating table and so I'd never wake up again, I'd be scared when they're putting me under! To know as I drift off that this was it. But it's hard to find any logical reason to be. If you ask yourself if you could live for however long you like, except you'd have to be in this dreamless thoughtless unconscious void forever, in what practical way would that differ from just drifting off into that state and dying?
Imagine if you did choose to stay in the thoughtless unconscious void for 1000 years and on that last day you die. How would you feel on year 1? How would you feel on year 999 with only 5 minutes to go? How would you know you were approaching 1000 years or not? As far as I can see, it wouldn't make a difference if it was 1 day or a 100 billion years before you died. The only reason we think longer is better is because when we're conscious we have that sense of time and we always wish we had more of it. It makes sense we'd think we'd say we'd want to stay in that state for years, rather than 10 minutes, because we feel deep down that the idea of living for many years or living for only 5 more minutes seems to make a HUGE difference. In reality though, if there was absolutely no experience whatsoever while you were unconscious and just a total void of nothingness, then whether you were like that for 5 minutes or a billion years really makes no difference. When in that state you wouldn't even know you'd only have 5 minutes, you wouldn't be able to go over your memories and ponder any of it, you wouldn't be dreaming anything, you wouldn't have any sense of the passage of time or any time at all. When you did eventually die you wouldn't even know you had needed to worry, or that it was coming up. The point is, what is the difference between actual death and that period you're totally unconscious under general anaesthetic? It seems to me this thoughtless void of unconsciousness is really only different to death based on waking up and remembering "before".
This poses another question for me. So lets say there were such a thing as a soul which would allow your "self" to continue beyond the death of your body. What would it be like if you could switch "souls" with another person? You would close your eyes in your body and wake up in theirs. Only, there's a catch. Absolutely none of your memories will be switched, so you'd have the exact memories as the person who's' body your soul was transferred with, and they would have yours. On top of that, you'd also have the same biological propensities toward certain behaviours as they did. Lets say you're a man and switched with a woman, you'd also have a very different hormonal balance. Or maybe you're man with an average body and fitness levels and now awoke in the body of a body builder with high levels of testosterone flooding his system or highly fit Olympic swimmer. The question is, would you know? From each others perspectives because you have "before" memories of the other, you simply woke up again in the same body. You have no reason to sense that you aren't that person. If you were a nervous shy person and you exchanged souls with a highly confident person, you wouldn't be shy because being shy would have been something determined either by genetics or your experiences or both. So neither of you would have any reason to think anything had changed at all, even though your souls were switched. The point being if this was the nature of your self, of your soul, then is there a practical different between having a soul and not having a soul? As much as everyone feels they're "them" they could just as easily really feel they're someone else, or really feel they're another animal like a dog, or an insect. Our souls could be switching bodies all the time constantly thousands of times a day and we'd still have the same feeling we do now that we're still the same person we were 5 years ago even if in previous few hours we'd been 10 different people, a badger and a house fly and we'd only been in this body for 10 minutes. In this scenario then wouldn't we be justified in saying the soul is such that there may as well be none?
Another way to think of it is to consider reincarnation. Imagine then if when you die you come back as someone else. The room goes black and you die and then the next thing you're being born somewhere else in the world. Only once again you wouldn't keep any of your memories, those were all housed back in the brain of your old body, but "you", your "soul", that survives. As we all know from what it's like thinking back to our childhood, most of us can remember barely anything if at all of that time. The only reason we know it happened at all is because there's pictures, people to tell us it did, and being able to determine that this must have happened to us. We only know our age because we can compare how we look to other humans and know we must be roughly this or that age, or because we're told how old we are. Even the memories we do have are so poor that most of the time we can't be totally sure they really happened and not a false memory generated from a frequently told story by a parent while looking at photographs, or even something that happened to someone else or potentially something we remember from a film or book! Memory is very funny like that. So your soul survives your death and you're now a baby again somewhere in the world, reincarnated as another human. Only without your memories and with different biological and environmental pressures, how would you know you'd been reincarnated? How would you behave in the same way when all the factors that shaped who you identify as "you" are different this time?
To me I can't find any difference between saying there is no soul and saying there is a soul when you look at it like this. So to say when you die you're obliterated totally and other conscious beings continue to come into existence, and saying when you die your soul is reincarnated in a new physical body, really might as well be saying the same thing.
I think she told her we are all damned. In other words "check mate" or "game over", so it didn't matter if you continued living on knowing there's ONLY hell waiting ahead, therefor she killed herself sooner rather than later. If you're going to suffer "knowing" whats coming up , rather simply get it over with. As for the "keep doubting" i think she meant "you DONT want to know". Thats my take on the ending.
Other fans have another theory. Some say Anna told Madam that there is no afterlife, and you simply relive your happy memories (in her case, her childhood with Lucy). The woman shot herself because she realised she wasted her life torturing innocent people and therefore she doesn't have happy memories to relive. All her memories are of pain.
You mean something similar to karma and reincarnation? Anyhow, as sadistic as the Madame was i highly doubt the Madame lived her whole life without ANY happy memories, so to me that theory falls short. However, i've read some comments and noted that people want to believe Anna tricked the Madame into either telling her A.Only hell exists or B.Only heaven exists (Both are reasons for the Madame not wanting to live anymore...ironically), in that way people see that Anna got her revenge. Personally i don't think it was revenge or a trick, just option A (the truth). Revenge/trick theory is just wishfull thinking of good finally triumphing in a twist, fact is this is a dark movie with an even darker meaning with such an end. Great movie with one of the most enigmatic endings in movie history for sure.
Not karma and reincarnation, more like remembrance.
Anything is possible in a movie i guess. But to think that there is a human being that never had a happy memory in their life is unheard of, i don't even believe such a person ever existed. Sudden infant death might be the only exception, however one can argue if the baby could feel joy in a mothers womb (Im no specialist in this area though). Even people with EXTREMELY unfortunate lifes (there are many examples) must have felt joy at some point in their life, even for the briefest moment/s. Now im not talking about forgotten memories cause that is different case, i belive forgotten or surppressed memories are still physically there yet some people will never get them back.
I haven't seen this film, but have seen a scene by scene breakdown that to spare myself having to witness torture. I think it is a brilliant joke--a meta movie--about voyeurism, morbid curiosity and the inaccessibility of direct experience to those who would be voyeurs. I suspect the filmmaker is counting on people being so invested in this film because they "forced" themselves to sit through and witness torture, that they overcomplicate their analysis--in a similar way that the torturers seek to rationalize their sadistic desires and morbid curiosity by attaching some kind of spiritual or philosophical meaning to it all. I think Anna sees what we see that she sees--a bright light. This sounds like a cliche of any near death experience--but it is so brilliantly filmed (I did see the "eye" scene) that it connotes a deeper sensation beyond what is seen. However, only the martyr can truly experience this divine radiation or whatever it is. When she tells Madame---it sounds like the typical cliche we all hear from those near death experience accounts. Madame realizes that the experience is entirely inaccessible to a non-martyr and she kills herself because it's all for nothing. I can come to that conclusion without seeing the film--and falling for the trap of thinking it MUST be more complicated than it looks because damnit! I sat through all that torture and had so much invested...that is the same mistake Madame makes. It's brilliant--and I don't even need to watch someone being skinned alive and then toasted to get what he's trying to do...however, our minds get fogged if we inflict the film on ourselves, which I think is the point.
Great ending and I think the world wants to know what was said and we all have our own theories but I have an even bigger question............... why do they have dub anime voices lol
One of the theories I like the most is one that says Anna was pretending to be a martyr and in that few moments of consciousness she chose the right words as a sign of revenge, probably something that would make Mademoiselle lose all hope
Don’t get me wrong, I love this film. It’s such a masterpiece. But I sill can’t understand why the secret society let Mademoiselle get the testimony all alone, after all the "work" it required. What a dumb idea. It may be altered or lost (like it finally happened). Didn’t they have something to record properly idk ? 😂
Really? Thats what you take away?
Probably Anna told Mademoseille that the afterlife is just a valley of emptiness and that we don’t go anywhere especial after death, Mademoseille then realized that there was no love or joy in her life and the only reason for being alive after all those years was torturing and killing in a desperate search for answers, after realizing that it was all for an unfufilling answer she killed herself, trying to go on with her life was pointless.
Anna's testimony meant nothing in the end thats how nihilistic this movie is.
I have read one theory where someone said heaven or afterlife is something that human being always wish to happen. In Anna case she loved someone wishes to live with her. Madamoisel was in tears and ask guy, “ can you dream or imagine afterlife?” And she quickly killed herself . No one would hurry to go hell. Anna has gone to heaven or pleasant afterlife that she wished. Madamoisel also wants that kind of heaven where she lives with those people who she truly loves. In Hindu holy book Gita Lord Krishna said same exact thing to warrior Arjuna. Arjuna was having war with his loved ones and he killed most of them. Arjuna was filled with guilt. Lord Krishna being spiritual guru showed Arjuna that his loved ones are happy in afterlife and they still love you. You have only killed their bodies but not soul. Once Arjuna dies he can join his loved ones that he killed in this world for some reasons. Madamoisel really had her own kind of afterlife that’s a big question though. No one knows about it. But Anna surely had some nice afterlife . Madamoisel does not tell anyone about afterlife how pleasant and beautiful it is. Because there will be mass suicide across the globe if everyone knows about it.
Is the the 28 weeks later, and kick ass song?
No
aaaah yeah sick movies
love em
An amazing french movie to view
MILESTONE 📼📼📼 1/2
hillbilly
movies reviewer-poet-writer-novelist 🎥 📚 🖒
The word "keep doubting" is there is no afterlife, and all of their wrong doings and effort to know what is in the afterlife is a waste of time.... most of the cult member are elderly and maybe afraid of what is in after death...
They'll get it next time
the ending is scary as fuck if u think about it
I believe the martyr told her there was nothing. She gave up and decided to just forget
Think more moron
Definitely what Mademoiselle heard was not good, her enthusiasm was zero. Her expression made it clear she didn't like what she heard and that she wished she never heard it. She says to "Keep doubting" as advice to them that they should continue to not know.
Mademoiselle certainly was not in a rush to get to some great future. Also the fact that she kills herself so quick I'd think it's not a human idea of a terrible future either, why would she rush to 'hell'. I think what she heard was so bizarre and strange that she couldn't comprehend it or withstand living with that knowledge. I don't think it's a 'nothing' or 'meaningless' future either.
There's just some secrets of the universe we're not meant to comprehend as humans. I feel like sometimes the universe is designed in such a way to almost protect our minds from it. We can't comprehend our universe, it's a complete miracle that we're here alive the way we are, just look out into infinite outer space... and you just have to trust that it knows what it's doing. There's one reason that I wouldn't fear death, because the fact that we're here as we are now, you just have to trust it knows what it's doing.
I also like to think that Anna lied to her. I would've lied if I could've...
should see the ending on the remake it's hilarious
This is a tricky scene, people are interpreting it wrong .
😊 keep doubting....
The point of the ending, in my opinion, is that She became a martyr and died for whichever religion was revealed to her.
What if the truth was reincarnation? Starting your life over again in an alternate timeline. Maybe the temptation of starting over again with a clean slate was too much even though she couldn't be sure that Anna was really telling the truth, and obviously once she's dead she can't tell the others for sure. Maybe she just couldn't allow all of her followers to take the same risk with only one confession to go off of.
great movie.
well it is quite obvious that Anna saw something, a white light that looked like a gateway or a living thing. She was in that place for around 2 hrs. So she must have been there, in the after-life. However what she must have told Mademoiselle is that "there is a place of bliss after death, however people who have commited a great sin can not reach such a place". This obviously goes agains the believe of the cult. They believed that if there is an afterlife anyone would go there, you don't necessarily have to believe in a God, however there is such a thing as karma, you always get what you deserve. So, all the cult members have commited a great sin and non of them will ever reach that place. Its ironic that the once who were so obsessed with this "other wolrd" and were willing to do whatever it took to hear about it ( they were obviously too cowardly to go through torture themselves to see it) are the once denied that access, while the once who just lived their lives as normal can get to it after death.
So what was Mademoiselle supposed to say to hear followers, , tell them the truth? that would have lead to depression and probably anger that time and money has been wasted. lie to them? sure that would have made everyone happy but the truth of never being able to see the place herself made her kill herself. The only thing that drove her and gave her purpose was to find out about the after-life and go there herself, knowing there is a place after death.
My theory is that it won't end well for her, nor good. It'll just end. She knows this, and with knowing this she knows that whatever else she does in life will be pointless since it'll end in nothingness.
Knowing this makes living on wards meaningless have this knowledge, always with you, in the back of your mind.
That's why she didn't say anything to Ettienne. He should keep doubting and live in total obliviousness about the afterlife and try and still get the best out of life while he can.
It's starting a book, knowing how it will end and realizing that the story is done, with nothing happening after it.
3:21 hitting the bong like
ok but what if Anna lied!!! what if she said there was something so beautiful but the truth is that there was nothing or was horrible