As the Ancient Greek adage goes: *_"Humility is the mother of all virtues"_* . The masculine pertains to virtue as it builds/hardens/emboldens/defines character. The feminine humbles/loosens/mysticizes/breaks down bad sinful habits and character flaws. Saint Paisios said that if men become too arrogant (which happens all too often), they should learn from their emotional sisters. Women's empathy is a great gift, he said, because it allows them to tap into deep, mystical ideas and patterns difficult to express (or "make masculine" as Jonathan said) and ones that "macho" hyper-rational men tend to easily dismiss, and because of this heartfelt emotion, prayers from women tend to be more effective. This is why the Saints and monastics stress the importance of crying in prayer and asking the Theotokos to grant us "tears of compunction", which softens the heart and leads to true repentance, which heals us (the antidote to "toxic masculinity" so to speak). The Orthodox Church has a beautiful balance between the masculine and feminine.
Hello, I've seen your comments in a lot of Pageaus' videos and they're always interesting. I find Jonathan's ideas very interesting, would you suggest me, please, a book or person to begin to understand what he is trying to say?
Artistic expression is “masculine.” Artistic inspiration is “feminine.” Just so, prayer is a “masculine” imposition on the existential “feminine.” Surrender of the masculine to the feminine is how you honor the feminine. It is how you receive the inspiration the masculine requires to live, to have anything to express or do.
I think prayer is feminine in the way a question is feminine (and an answer is masculine). Prayer doesn't do any imposing. To use the language of this video, prayer creates space for the masculine (whatever it happens to be) to step into.
Oh wow, what you said about the wife or mother converting great men, like St. Monica too, it makes me think: of course not every man takes the prompting, and Pontius Pilate was given that chance too with the help God gave to his wife in her dream. That's a very interesting angle I hadn't thought of. It also makes me think of how we see Pontius Pilate going back and forth and back and forth in indecision during the trial. Maybe there's a comparison to be made between Pilate's "What is truth?" with Our Lady's "How shall this be?" and "Let it be..." Maybe we should simply ask the secular world more often: What do you think it is that makes femininity uniquely special and great? It's a great question, and why should we think progressives would dislike it? And if they feel like it afterward, then let them ask themselves what is uniquely special and great about masculinity--but if it's femininity they think they like, then let's not hinder them from seeking some great truth through which others might follow. Just thinking out loud.
I feel like this is a very good point. Thank you for opening UP the space for this turn-over strategy. Maybe the structure behind it is that you simply create a pit in the direction they are stubbornly heading and they are bound to fall into it. Then inside it, they can only get out by being honest to themselves about the answer - that will fill the hole.
"Thus the participation of women in the most diverse professional disciplines could be a blessing for the entire society, private or public, precisely if the specifically feminine ethos would be preserved. A glance toward the Mother of God becomes indicative for us again. For example, Mary at the wedding of Cana in her quiet, observing look surveys everything and discovers what is lacking. Before anything is noticed, even before embarrassment sets in, she has procured already the remedy. She finds ways and means, she gives necessary directives, doing all quietly. She draws no attention to herself. Let her be the prototype of woman in professional life. Wherever situated, let her always perform her work quietly and dutifully, without claiming attention and appreciation. And at the same time, she should survey the conditions with a vigilant eye. Let her be conscious of where there is a want and where help is needed, intervening and regulating as far as it is possible in her power in a discreet way. Then will she like a good spirit spread blessing everywhere." St. Edith Stein, "Ethos of Woman's Professions" I was just reminded of this recent reading from school! This is a wonderful video!
“women in the most diverse professional disciplines,” seems to be just more of the masculine... but rather inverted, which seems to be part of the acceleration of feminine shrinkage and the vanishing of private and sacred space.
Perhaps one positive from shutting the world down is that we are all forced to return to those private places, to the home. We are pushed out of the masculine publicness of our daily existence and the hidden places, the space of the feminine, becomes primary. How will that transform our future? Will we take advantage of the opportunity this provides? And what exactly does it provide?
I could see that but only as a small, hidden “opportunity to return to the sacred space.” which I guess would make sense that it’s hidden potential. I mostly see this played out in the up trending of homeschooling and things of the sort... but “lock downs” in general, feel to be oriented to dark aspects of masculinity. but I can see your point... perhaps the opportunity has been presented in some way. we’ll see where it goes. I sometimes wonder if automation will lead us back to a sound balance and restore femininity.
Hey Jonathan, love your content! It's really making me look at the world around me in a completely different way. Really like this cutting up of conversations into smaller segments. I find I listen to more of your content this way and it helps my attention span as well. Thank you!
Maybe simplistic thinking on my part but by eliminating the feminine you also eliminate the masculine? Also, in the Garden did the serpent ask Eve because of the feminine nature?
Women help facilitate the spread of the Gospel historically. Yet when women get captured in war and end up in a harem it seems that feminine influence is muted especially in Muslim Lands like a kind of handy counter.
It’s interesting that Jonathan said we’re living in an age where there is no feminine, I always assumed we were living in an age of chaos - which symbolically is associated with the feminine?
We are in the age of the hyper-Rational, Masculine believe it or not. Why women are acting more like men, even the way female super heroes are depicted these days
i think of it as imbalance, where the extremes go together, paradoxically enough. {we also see hyper-individualism & hyper-conformity at the same time} maybe something like, if the margins, the organic, the feminine is not integrated & acknowledged & given place, then she only appears as an enemy and like this violent force that's taking over and destroying everything. {i guess climate change is a good example - we don't acknowledge or live in harmony with nature therefore nature increasingly becomes this threat and monster}
You been listening to too much Peterson. Peterson is trying to resurrect the enlightenment philosophers. It is their philosophies that has led the world to where it is now. They tried to hyper rationalise everything and lay it bear been so presumptuous that they left nothing to mystery. The invention of the camera compounded this state of affairs, it out did the telescope and microscope because they turned it on women. All the enlightenment philosophers were free masons, if they weren't, we would never have heard of them.
I think a better way of putting it is: the feminine is to ask a question while the masculine is to answer the question. Asking a question creates a space of potentiality and answering the question converts the potentiality to definition/concreteness.
St John Chrysostom made a homily on the Gospel of John centering around the question How. It implies that there are doubts. He was saying this in reference to Nicodemus going to see Jesus at night in Chapter 3. So, is masculinity inherently doubtful of its potential? This is quite existential.
Perhaps a 2-year-old video is not the best place to ask this, but I wonder. If feminine is that which gives body, shape, and male is that which gives seed, direction - then how a question is not giving a direction ? I mean question, like a seed - as all the potential in it. It just needs to be realized. And so how would it be "in-sync" for female/Marry to ask, and male to aswer/realize/put into action/flesh.
I believe he was mispronouncing the Greek word Hoira, which literally means the receptacle of generation. Your mother is a.... that's right. Plato goes into this in the Timaeus.
As the Ancient Greek adage goes: *_"Humility is the mother of all virtues"_* .
The masculine pertains to virtue as it builds/hardens/emboldens/defines character. The feminine humbles/loosens/mysticizes/breaks down bad sinful habits and character flaws. Saint Paisios said that if men become too arrogant (which happens all too often), they should learn from their emotional sisters. Women's empathy is a great gift, he said, because it allows them to tap into deep, mystical ideas and patterns difficult to express (or "make masculine" as Jonathan said) and ones that "macho" hyper-rational men tend to easily dismiss, and because of this heartfelt emotion, prayers from women tend to be more effective. This is why the Saints and monastics stress the importance of crying in prayer and asking the Theotokos to grant us "tears of compunction", which softens the heart and leads to true repentance, which heals us (the antidote to "toxic masculinity" so to speak). The Orthodox Church has a beautiful balance between the masculine and feminine.
Nice!
Where can I read what St. Paisios wrote about this subject?
@@peppy619 It was in a recording of him, I believe.
Hello, I've seen your comments in a lot of Pageaus' videos and they're always interesting. I find Jonathan's ideas very interesting, would you suggest me, please, a book or person to begin to understand what he is trying to say?
Great post
I love hearing about feminine without the problem being turn into some kind of masculin hierarchy.🌹
Thank you!greetings from Romania!:)
Artistic expression is “masculine.” Artistic inspiration is “feminine.” Just so, prayer is a “masculine” imposition on the existential “feminine.” Surrender of the masculine to the feminine is how you honor the feminine. It is how you receive the inspiration the masculine requires to live, to have anything to express or do.
I think prayer is feminine in the way a question is feminine (and an answer is masculine). Prayer doesn't do any imposing. To use the language of this video, prayer creates space for the masculine (whatever it happens to be) to step into.
Vulnerable space is feminine but it needs the protection of the masculine
This is such a good and revelatory discussion.
This really helps me with some things I've been thinking through lately. Feels like I should watch this at least a few more times.
Oh wow, what you said about the wife or mother converting great men, like St. Monica too, it makes me think: of course not every man takes the prompting, and Pontius Pilate was given that chance too with the help God gave to his wife in her dream. That's a very interesting angle I hadn't thought of.
It also makes me think of how we see Pontius Pilate going back and forth and back and forth in indecision during the trial.
Maybe there's a comparison to be made between Pilate's "What is truth?" with Our Lady's "How shall this be?" and "Let it be..."
Maybe we should simply ask the secular world more often: What do you think it is that makes femininity uniquely special and great?
It's a great question, and why should we think progressives would dislike it? And if they feel like it afterward, then let them ask themselves what is uniquely special and great about masculinity--but if it's femininity they think they like, then let's not hinder them from seeking some great truth through which others might follow. Just thinking out loud.
I feel like this is a very good point. Thank you for opening UP the space for this turn-over strategy.
Maybe the structure behind it is that you simply create a pit in the direction they are stubbornly heading and they are bound to fall into it. Then inside it, they can only get out by being honest to themselves about the answer - that will fill the hole.
Eve was more intellectually curious in paradise.
She received more into herself and blamed for everything.
This is a tremendous match of conversation partners.
Very impactful. This subject warrants further exploration.
After the invention of the camera was when the degrading of the feminine began.
Happy Mother's Day, everyone! Don't forget the "frames" that made us, haha.
The mother of St. Brendan the Navigator! St. Ita pray for us! Naomh Íta guigh orainn!
What an amazing clip.
Whoa.
I gotta think about this one for a while.
one of the best
"Thus the participation of women in the most diverse professional disciplines could be a blessing for the entire society, private or public, precisely if the specifically feminine ethos would be preserved. A glance toward the Mother of God becomes indicative for us again. For example, Mary at the wedding of Cana in her quiet, observing look surveys everything and discovers what is lacking. Before anything is noticed, even before embarrassment sets in, she has procured already the remedy. She finds ways and means, she gives necessary directives, doing all quietly. She draws no attention to herself. Let her be the prototype of woman in professional life. Wherever situated, let her always perform her work quietly and dutifully, without claiming attention and appreciation. And at the same time, she should survey the conditions with a vigilant eye. Let her be conscious of where there is a want and where help is needed, intervening and regulating as far as it is possible in her power in a discreet way. Then will she like a good spirit spread blessing everywhere."
St. Edith Stein, "Ethos of Woman's Professions"
I was just reminded of this recent reading from school!
This is a wonderful video!
“women in the most diverse professional disciplines,” seems to be just more of the masculine... but rather inverted, which seems to be part of the acceleration of feminine shrinkage and the vanishing of private and sacred space.
St Edith Stein fantastic thinker
I love this. Need to learn about her.
"It is not good for the man to be alone."
Perhaps one positive from shutting the world down is that we are all forced to return to those private places, to the home. We are pushed out of the masculine publicness of our daily existence and the hidden places, the space of the feminine, becomes primary. How will that transform our future? Will we take advantage of the opportunity this provides? And what exactly does it provide?
I could see that but only as a small, hidden “opportunity to return to the sacred space.” which I guess would make sense that it’s hidden potential. I mostly see this played out in the up trending of homeschooling and things of the sort... but “lock downs” in general, feel to be oriented to dark aspects of masculinity. but I can see your point... perhaps the opportunity has been presented in some way. we’ll see where it goes. I sometimes wonder if automation will lead us back to a sound balance and restore femininity.
You can’t force femininity on people though. It would be akin to rape because it is violent and oppressive.
Hey Jonathan, love your content! It's really making me look at the world around me in a completely different way. Really like this cutting up of conversations into smaller segments. I find I listen to more of your content this way and it helps my attention span as well. Thank you!
Hmmm. Makes me think of the Lady of the Lake and Arthur.
Open a space... Brave things to do.
Maybe simplistic thinking on my part but by eliminating the feminine you also eliminate the masculine? Also, in the Garden did the serpent ask Eve because of the feminine nature?
Jonathan, could you please make a video explaining the liturgical year?
Women help facilitate the spread of the Gospel historically. Yet when women get captured in war and end up in a harem it seems that feminine influence is muted especially in Muslim Lands like a kind of handy counter.
It’s so good!
FIRST COMMENT, WOOT!
Keep it up, great stuff!
It’s interesting that Jonathan said we’re living in an age where there is no feminine, I always assumed we were living in an age of chaos - which symbolically is associated with the feminine?
We are in the age of the hyper-Rational, Masculine believe it or not. Why women are acting more like men, even the way female super heroes are depicted these days
i think of it as imbalance, where the extremes go together, paradoxically enough. {we also see hyper-individualism & hyper-conformity at the same time} maybe something like, if the margins, the organic, the feminine is not integrated & acknowledged & given place, then she only appears as an enemy and like this violent force that's taking over and destroying everything. {i guess climate change is a good example - we don't acknowledge or live in harmony with nature therefore nature increasingly becomes this threat and monster}
You been listening to too much Peterson. Peterson is trying to resurrect the enlightenment philosophers. It is their philosophies that has led the world to where it is now. They tried to hyper rationalise everything and lay it bear been so presumptuous that they left nothing to mystery. The invention of the camera compounded this state of affairs, it out did the telescope and microscope because they turned it on women. All the enlightenment philosophers were free masons, if they weren't, we would never have heard of them.
Chaos is just a lack of balance or harmony between the polarities.
Knowing
🎉🎉🎉
💌
Masculine is the how.
Feminine is the why.
Is that an adequate analogy?
I think a better way of putting it is: the feminine is to ask a question while the masculine is to answer the question.
Asking a question creates a space of potentiality and answering the question converts the potentiality to definition/concreteness.
St John Chrysostom made a homily on the Gospel of John centering around the question How. It implies that there are doubts. He was saying this in reference to Nicodemus going to see Jesus at night in Chapter 3. So, is masculinity inherently doubtful of its potential? This is quite existential.
Perhaps a 2-year-old video is not the best place to ask this, but I wonder.
If feminine is that which gives body, shape, and male is that which gives seed, direction - then how a question is not giving a direction ? I mean question, like a seed - as all the potential in it. It just needs to be realized. And so how would it be "in-sync" for female/Marry to ask, and male to aswer/realize/put into action/flesh.
it seems to me a question is the opening to receive the seed of the answer
🎉🎉🎉🎉
I am probably getting this all wrong but it seems that the issue with the church in America is that it is too feminine.
What is this Korra/Corra book he mentioned? Anyone can please share a link?
I believe he was mispronouncing the Greek word Hoira, which literally means the receptacle of generation. Your mother is a.... that's right. Plato goes into this in the Timaeus.
Another example: St Augustine's mother was Christian first before he came back
The wife of Jordan Peterson
We need a female Jordan Peterson. This dance needs to be had. We can't dance when both sides are moving to different rythms.
His wife Tami is highly feminine .
Hierarchy and antiarchy. Pyramids. Star of David. Heir-archy.
Logos acts on the undetermined χάος.