Liston was a big slob with no heart, as proven by the first Ali fight when he quit, "claiming" a shoulder injury. What bullshit. He was getting the shit kicked out of him. THAT'S why he quit. Beating a guy like Wepner, who didn't know how to fight, proves nothing. Beating Wepner is like beating up a kid with Downs Syndrome.
Yes Mike ,but debatable. Some writers say yes but some say no.What is suggestive is that within boxing's inner circle most of the figures within the circle keep their mouths shut !Certainly some skulduggery went on .Nick Tosche who wrote a good biography of Sonny says not but does keep one foot in the yes camp.He says it is 50/ 50 a mob hit .So.....???
I forgot to add that Liston had a meeting before this fight with thred well dressed " black dudes " who did ask him to drop the fight .When his trainer objected Liston replied " oh don't worry , I 'm gonna knock this guy out " Some people think that refusal to go down was partly to blame for his mysterious death .
Wepner learned to fight on the streets of Bayonne, New Jersey,[7] saying, "This was a tough town with a lot of people from the docks and the naval base and you had to fight to survive". Wepner was about a year old when he moved in with his grandmother on 28th Street near Hudson Boulevard (now Kennedy Boulevard). He was raised by his mother and grandparents, living in a room that was a converted coal shed until he was 13. He was an avid player of sports in his youth, playing basketball for the Police Athletic League. At Bayonne High School, his height helped him get a spot on the basketball team.[8] At the age of 15, Wepner decided he would join the U.S. Marines, inspired by the movie Battle Cry.[9] In the Marines, he became a member of the boxing team, developing a reputation for being able to withstand other boxers' punches, and becoming a military champion at one of the airbases. A 1975 Sports Illustrated article said that Wepner had saved the lives of three Marine pilots, pulling them from blazing airplanes.
Liston put that incredibly long jab to work. At 6"1 Liston had an 84" reach... only 1 inch shorter that Tyson Fury's 85" reach. It's really incredible and a bit freakish.
84 inch reach but short enough to slip under punches easily. Its hard to train for someone like liston. He also would work inside even if you held him. He was one of the best grapplers I've ever seen in boxing
Anyone notice how a guy with 6'1" height has a 84" reach? I bet this put his opponents in a situation where they were kind of used to feeling the distance with a guy of that height, but in actuality, he has more reach than Deontay Wilder. Probably much easier to follow through with his punches on opponents. A shorter heavyweight fighter who hit incredibly hard and had a strangely long reach for his height. Mike Tyson's weakness with being so short was opponents who could put him at a distance. You could not do that with Liston. He could fight up close or at a distance and anywhere... he hit hard... He's more technical than i think people often give him credit for.
I agree. Liston was not only naturally gifted with very long arms, one of the biggest fists in the history of boxing and a body of granite, he put it all to use in the ring too! If Ali had not been greater, who knows, Liston might have been Heavyweight Champ for 17 years!!
@@georgelabauve3469 Indeed! Only Andrea the Giant had bigger hands at 21 inches, but he weighed over 500lb at 7ft 6in and would eat over 5 pounds of filet mignon and wash it down with 72 beers, you heard right, 3 cases of beers. Andrea could crush a can of beer like potato chips.
According to Wepner, Elder Liston was undoubtedly the most powerful boxer he met in his career. In a recent interview, the question "(Ali) was your toughest opponent?" Wepner reiterated: "No. Sonny Liston was hitting a lot harder" (January 13, 2007)
@@brendanfrost2475 Indeed! Chuckles Wepner said everytime that Sonny hit him, he broke something. Liston smashed & broke Chucks nose and fractured both cheek bones and cut Wepners face like a hot knife going through butter, it took over 100 stitches to patch Weppy up. Ali destroyed Wepner as well. He literally punished Wepner by not knocking him out but taking him the full distance at 15 rounds. I've met my fair share of boxers when i followed Marvin Hagler & Mickey Wards career and Wepner's face is one of the most scarred & beat up that i've ever seen from boxing ring damage.
@@brendanfrost2475 A 3-0 Foreman stopped Wepner in 3 while Liston took much longer. Liston is dead. Most people usually show respect to dead people. Every other boxer including who fought Liston and Foreman stated Foreman punched harder.
@@googlemyself4091 Which boxer by any chance said Foreman hits harder than Liston? BTW a boxer knocking out someone faster is not an indication of being a harder hitter. Better puncher yes. Ali floored Williams faster than Liston does that mean Ali hits harder than Sonny. Mike Tyson floored Stewart faster than Foreman, yet Stewart stated Foreman hits harder.
Old man Liston still with tons of game.....but chuck is a fun guy to watch...he literally knows every trick in the books plus he's huge.....I ll bet Liston was sore all over after this fight....but he was sharp enough to give us the great boxing quote...."no, the bravest is wepner's manager".....I m paraphrasing....
Wasn't it Wepner who had to have 70-odd stitches after the fight?? Sonny was killed/ dies mysteriously a few months later, but definitely not from any wounds he got throughout his boxing career!!
Except for Ali & Floyd Patterson -- I'm at a loss for any name heavyweight contenders to Liston. Chuck Wepner? Liston fought some ranked names but none with any big following, or former title holders. He fought many second-tier names & Liston was KO'd by a second-tier heavyweight Leotis Martin (3rd ranked fighter). Liston dominated & even decked Martin (who suffered a detached retina) in the 4th round. Then, in the 9th round, Liston was knocked out cold. Yeah, Liston would've faired well against a Rocky Marciano. Hall of Fame? One of the top 4 of all time? You don't watch much boxing, do you? Look up who holds the record for most wins by KOs in the heavyweight division. You'll be surprised. It isn't Sonny. Sonny deserves an honorable mention. But he isn't one of the greats of all time. Not even the Top 25. Ali said Liston hit him the hardest. Ali also said Ron Lyle hit him the hardest. I don't believe in any of this BS. I do know during the filming of the Ali-Marciano computer fight Ali had to take 2 days off from filming because he couldn't raise his arms. Reach is dangerous when a fighter is not skilled to deal with it. Reach never bothered a Rocky Marciano since he always got fearlessly in & under to deliver his crippling goods from the shoulder with his short powerful arms.
@@paleo704 - Check the record for yourself -- you can read & comprehend. Except for Cleveland Williams & Zora Folley, none of the names in Sonny's early career were fighters of note. Then he met Floyd Patterson who was good but he was no Rocky Marciano. Then Sonny met a young Ali and those two fights are still debated as to their validity. Then he met Leotis Martin who KO'd him. And while Chuck Wepner was stopped on his stool, on cuts, by Liston he didn't even KO Chuck after 10 rounds. Chuck was never a top 10 heavyweight. Sonny never met people like George Chuvalo, Jerry Quarry, Oscar Bonavena, Manuel Ramos & Doug Jones -- Sonny may have stopped these fighters but these men were far tougher than who Sonny was meeting. I sometimes think Sonny was playing it safe. Some gave Joe Frazier & Ali a hard time.
Liston and Holmes definitely could be in the top five. Due to their body of work, length of tenure as champion, number of title defenses, Sonny was the #1 contender for six (SIX) years before he got a title shot. He was avoided like the plague. I know Rocky wasn't coming outta retirement to fight Liston, Williams or any of these lions, besides Rocky only defended his title a paltry,peezy six times and retired after only two years after aquiring the title, he'd fought all the Grand Papas and tomato cans he could find.
In a Liston biography, a Michigan State football lineman commented that he had seen plenty of athletes bigger than Liston, but none more intimidatingly massive. The difference is obvious versus Wepner, who is much larger, but Liston's body is terrifyingly compact in its musculature.
omalone11 .. but he did say that. There's a video clip of him saying that. I just came from a video where Wepner discussed the damage Liston had done to him.
Even at that age Sonny would have been worst for Joe than Foreman was. Sonny was a much more accurate puncher than the sopposed secound coming of himself and, was a much better technician than the onorthodox Foreman 1. They left Sonny out of that elimination tournament when Ali was suspended. Gee, go figure. Willie Reddish who use to work Sonnys' corner for years, was working with Joe then and, I don't think it would have been smart to fight Sonny even at that older age of Sonny. The big money was in a Ali-Frazier fight, that's one of the reasons they left Sonny out of that bullcrap tournament. They included Floyd Patterson but they left Sonny out of it ah? Patterson beat Bonavena, ah? Bonavena went the distance with Joe twice and, gave went almost all the 15th round with Ali. Stinks like hell don't it, Isn't it pretty obvious? Sonny was the most complete heavyweight champion of all-times at one time. Wasted too much time in jail too. Joe Louis said Sonny was the greatest heavyweight of all-times, he would have known.
I agree with you entirely.Sonny boy would have been champ for many years if he had got his chances when he was younger.He was awesome;a complete fighter and unbeatable for many years apart from the two rigged Ali fights.Chuck Wepner reckoned Sonny looked about 50 years old up close.That was Sonny`s last fight .His birth was a mystery and so was his death.Poor Sonny .Used and abused and possibly killed when he was no use to anybody.
Rumor has it Sonny was supposed to take a dive for Ash Resnick and that's why he got murdered just months after this fight and the mob made it look like a cover up.
I thought Leotis Martin was the last fight Sonny had. Sonny got knocked out. But, Leotis Martin never fought again it was said he suffered a detached retina in that fight. Seems Chuck Wepner risked been blind also in this. They'd stop a fight well before this over that type of punishment dished out these days. Sonny's large fists on impact must have been as hard as concrete from his powerful shoulders unleashed. Awesome skilled power boxer heavyweight was Sonny Liston even into his old age. His track record proved it.
@@kevinbergin2225 Dude, I swear the fight with Jack Johnson was scheduled for 45 rounds. It was worse than Roman gladiators, brutal, ferocious, savage, vicious. That shysh was borderline criminal to say the least. I like to watch those old films and binge one weekend, that shysh was numbing and that's just the tip of the iceberg...SMDH...
He held and hit. He was the greatest rabbit puncher I've ever seen. Not sure I ever saw him land a stunning clean blow. His blows were chopping and often while he was holding.
@@delpage1 Sonny annihilated the Bayonne Bleeder,the Bleeder surely bled that night. The Bayonne Bleeder talking bout don't stop the fight if I'm cut. SHYTT, if they didn't stop it, the Bleeder would've BLED to death in the ring. Hopefully he'd pass out first. Thank God...
I say anyone who got into the ring with Sonny has my respect. Sonny’s hands were so big they barely fit into gloves. Sad how he ended up and no respect from the press when he became champion; quite the opposite. When he got off the plane after becoming champion no one was there to celebrate his win; that broke his heart ❤️
I seem to recall that Liston had an 88 inch reach, pretty huge. When asked if Wepner had courage for signing to fight him Liston replied No, his manager had courage.
CW is one tough Dude. If he only had more skills. His heart was out of bounds, hung in there with the best even though his talent just was not there. It's no wonder Sly picked him as the basis for the Rocky movies. Yup, that was Chuck.
Wepner being such a tall man means he has to hit down and in doing so he loses power far better if Wepner developed a short snappy hook, as did smoking Joe. I have to agree with many comments saying what a very good boxer Liston was. Skill, timing, technique. What a shame Liston did not get the recognition he deserved.
I met Chuck Wepner and Ali when they were in Cleveland in 1977 forvgheir fight. I only shock hands with Wepner but we spent about a half hour with Ali who was a very nice soft spoken man in private but when the press came in he was a different guy.
Not only is the date of Liston’s birth a mystery but the date of his death is also uncertain. His wife discovered his body at home after she had been away for several days.
Wepner's boxing career, and fight with Ali after, inspired the 1976 film Rocky,[4] and other life events were chronicled in the 2016 film, Chuck. He was also the subject of the 2019 film The Brawler.
The cut wasn't created by the head, but the left jab. There is no way that the much shorter Liston could create the cut on the RIGHT eye using his head against an Orthodox. The commentator was OBVIOUSLY biased.
Sonny beat this Big Bloody Bloke to a pulp. I'mma give Chuck the credit he deserves, he's one tough former Marine. The more I watch this fight, Chuck is hard as hell to take such a bloody beating. I heard 383 stitches to repair the four cuts to his eyes, a broken nose and fractured jaw or separated jaw something to that effect. I'm in awe of how Wepner took that beating, you could tell he was obviously in pain serious...SMDH pain. The Bayonne Bleeder bled that night. FR FR
This looks as good as the "moon landing " in 69 that I watch on TV when I was 4 years old....now there talking about "going back" now that I'm 58..loud out laughing!
Wepner may have had a height advantage over Liston, but I seriously doubt he had a reach advantage as claimed by the announcer. Liston had freakishly long arms.
You'd have long arms, too if you started working in the cotton fields at three maybe four years old, minimally at best carrying water to the field hands, y'all Gen xers, Y, Z, YY, ZZ and Millennials where have y'all been. That poor boy was worked like a man at six, seven, eight yrs old. WAKE UP Since y'all sooo WOKE.
Liston always appeared to be wide open but he would slip punches with ease and you couldnt hit him even though he was right there with his hands low. If you tried to hold him it didnt matter. He was so strong and skilled at grappling he would always get a hand free and pound to the body and head with it. If you tried to run it didnt matter because his reach was so long he would hit you with his jab. If you slipped inside his jab he would frame behind your head and throw a right hand to your head and then a left hook to the body as you tried to pull out from his clinch.
Liston was certainly in his forties by the time of this fight. Still had that great jab and despite the height disadvantage that big reach of his remained a potent weapon. The reality was that by the time Liston fought Patterson for the title he was already past his best and was nearer 34years of age than the official and quite ridiculous 28years!
Sonny Liston was actually a little over 40 years old in this fight, if not older. Best estimate his birthday was early july 1930. Crazy to think what he would have done if he started earlier
Thats what happens when you get involved in not fair play in matches you lose all the respect. Liston had very bad habbits and it was too much for him. Boxing in his mind wasnt about winningfor glory anymore it was for the purse and thats where things change.
Todays clowns wouldn't last 1 round vs Liston.. maybe Fury wpuld last longest but he would walk out looking ten times worse then he did against Wallin.
B G is correct in believing that Sonny had the largest hands of any champ, 15" round; Carnera just pipped at 14.75". Dempsey and Tunney both small at 11.25". Chuck not only had over 70 stitches inserted post fight, he also had a broken cheekbone and nose. I saw him being interviewed many moons ago and remember this quote re Sonny: ' Every time he hit me it felt like he broke something '. Liston aged 44 I would say, based on Floyd Patterson's reckoning, and Frazier wouldn't go near him: lucky Joe.
The earliest he could've been born was 1922 and the latest was 1930. If he was born in 1922 that would make him 42 years old at the time of the Ali fight... Imagine 35 year old Ali vs 35 year old Liston...shit imagine if we actually saw Liston at his prime when he was in his twenties, sadly that never happened because of to many police encounters snubbing his start off in boxing.
To me he seems well rounded but not great at anything. He seems like he just has intermediate skills but his blue collar style toughness carried him through his career
Wepner was too brave mixing it . Trying to get close and match even an old Liston was nuts. Wepner Said Liston hit harder than Foreman, Chuck looked a frightful mess after trying to brawl with Sonny....
Of curiosity, the announcer keeps talking about Liston using his head on Wepner and cutting his face and even says Wepner is “complaining to the referee about it.” Frankly, I don’t see any jarring jabs, crunching right hands or devastating left hooks being landed by Liston in this fight. It could by he was finished as a fighter and the loss to Martin was not just a loss but a crushing knockout the likes of which bring about the end to a fighter’s career.
People from New Jersey are some of the toughest mofo's in the country. They don't fuck around in that area, like Philadelphia which borders New Jersey, and then Jersey City and Brooklyn, NY Those are some seriously rough areas, no wonder they produced so many great fighters!
Listons sister (after he died) told a story that he was 8-10 years older (can’t remember exactly) then they claimed. She told the story that his manager told him that if he came out as a 30+ heavyweight nobody would take him seriously so she says they lied about his age. If that’s true he was in is 50’s in this fight. It’s crazy if true
Liston had agreed to fight George Chuvalo after this victory, but he did not live long enough for the fight to come off. He also turned down a Seattle fight against Boone Kirkman as he was filming a movie in which he played a truck driver battling a motercycle gang. Liston was probably near 50 in this fight. He could box and he could punch and we will never really know what happened in the two Ali fights or how he really died (or when he was really born).
+John Gerard Read Paul Gallenders book- Sonny Liston and the story behind the Ali fights. Then you'll know what happened. Many of us had heard rumors but Paul did the research and got the story.
+Cliff Moore If you think that was a legitimate KO, then I've some nice land down here in Florida for you. I asked Angelo Dundee once if the Anchor Punch was devastating, why didn't Ali ever use it again. He just smiled. Had dinner with Emile Griffith, who knew Sonny, and he told us all about the fix in the second fight, how the muslims had kidnapped Sonny's wife and son. He said Sonny told him if he was going to tank, he would make sure everyone knew it was a tank job. We knew this long before Gallenders book came out. If you talked to any of the old time fighters about that fight, they all say the same thing. Fix. You don't take flush shots from Cleveland Williams, walk through them to score a KO, and then go down from a punch my grandmother could have taken. I met Sonny in 1965 while he was training in Mass. and believe me, he was very much older than his stated age. Griffith said he was probably well in his 50's when he died.
+loyaldude10 I've spoken to people who knew Liston, and I met him myself in 1965, and he was well into his 50's when he died. He was supposedly 33 in 1965, and when I looked at that face, it was clear he was much older than stated.
+Cliff Moore You're quite the cynic. Now you think Moorer took a dive? Don't think for a moment I was trying to impress you with people I have spoken with. Perish the thought. With your outlook on the fight game, I certainly hope you don't watch any matches. I don't believe we have anything else to speak about.
Liston was the most underrated heavyweight champion ever, and in my view, if Ali had never been on the scene, Liston, would've been champion for the rest of the 60s. The 2nd Ali fight was dubious to say the least, which was a travesty. His jab was the best ever in any heavyweight, destructive and solid, he could knock a man out with either hand! It was sad how he died, which in my view, he was murdered
@@BruceAChristie If that’s true , then Joe had trouble making up his mind, because he definitely did say it about Sonny. I don’t have dates at hand; I’d think comments on Sonny were made years after those on Rocky being shortly after Louis lost to him.
@@lazur1I would love to hear it as it’s news to me. I do remember hearing Rocky Marciano talk about how incredibly strong Liston was. Liston was a fantastic boxer, so powerful with both hands and it’s unfortunate that his career went the way it did. Thanks.
Yes, Liston was top-10 all timer to be sure. But he committed the sin in the Ali rematch of throwing a title fight without even TRYING to make it look on the level. Hard to tell what he was thinking--was it smothered hostility against the guys who made him do it? (Geraldine, I think, once said he feared no man except for the guys who managed him.) He had been in great shape 6 months earlier --films of him training now available on youtube-- but when that was cancelled, he hit the bottle more than the heavy bag.
This was Liston's last fight. Sonny went on to win 14 out of 15 fights after fighting Ali. He was one of the best.
Liston was a big slob with no heart, as proven by the first Ali fight when he quit, "claiming" a shoulder injury. What bullshit. He was getting the shit kicked out of him. THAT'S why he quit. Beating a guy like Wepner, who didn't know how to fight, proves nothing. Beating Wepner is like beating up a kid with Downs Syndrome.
Yes. And the mob killed him
Yes Mike ,but debatable. Some writers say yes but some say no.What is suggestive is that within boxing's inner circle most of the figures within the circle keep their mouths shut !Certainly some skulduggery went on .Nick Tosche who wrote a good biography of Sonny says not but does keep one foot in the yes camp.He says it is 50/ 50 a mob hit .So.....???
I forgot to add that Liston had a meeting before this fight with thred well dressed " black dudes " who did ask him to drop the fight .When his trainer objected Liston replied " oh don't worry , I 'm gonna knock this guy out " Some people think that refusal to go down was partly to blame for his mysterious death .
@@mikevaldez7684 Oh wow how did they do that? And why?
Wepner learned to fight on the streets of Bayonne, New Jersey,[7] saying, "This was a tough town with a lot of people from the docks and the naval base and you had to fight to survive". Wepner was about a year old when he moved in with his grandmother on 28th Street near Hudson Boulevard (now Kennedy Boulevard). He was raised by his mother and grandparents, living in a room that was a converted coal shed until he was 13. He was an avid player of sports in his youth, playing basketball for the Police Athletic League. At Bayonne High School, his height helped him get a spot on the basketball team.[8]
At the age of 15, Wepner decided he would join the U.S. Marines, inspired by the movie Battle Cry.[9] In the Marines, he became a member of the boxing team, developing a reputation for being able to withstand other boxers' punches, and becoming a military champion at one of the airbases. A 1975 Sports Illustrated article said that Wepner had saved the lives of three Marine pilots, pulling them from blazing airplanes.
Nicely copied and pasted from Wikipedia
@michaelb2388 so what , I enjoyed the read. Don't be a dick.
Liston, Foreman, Tyson, Shavers,
I mean these guys hit really hard…
Liston put that incredibly long jab to work. At 6"1 Liston had an 84" reach... only 1 inch shorter that Tyson Fury's 85" reach. It's really incredible and a bit freakish.
Liston also had one of the biggest fists amongst heavyweights - I forgot how many inches... That's helpful when you're a puncher!!
Like a 14” fist.
@@SurendranNambiath He has the biggest hands in boxing history, with 15 inches, considering Valuew and Fury are 7 feet tall
@@MeisterShowtime Fury isn't 7 ft
84 inch reach but short enough to slip under punches easily. Its hard to train for someone like liston. He also would work inside even if you held him. He was one of the best grapplers I've ever seen in boxing
The great thing about this era was that there were contenders fighting each other all the time. There was always an interesting fight on the schedule.
Yes, anyone in the top 10 could give the champ a rough time, in every weight class.
Did Wepner fight Frazier?
Bob Arum and Al Haymon really ruined boxing.
And free on tv
@@louisspeciale823no
Anyone notice how a guy with 6'1" height has a 84" reach? I bet this put his opponents in a situation where they were kind of used to feeling the distance with a guy of that height, but in actuality, he has more reach than Deontay Wilder. Probably much easier to follow through with his punches on opponents. A shorter heavyweight fighter who hit incredibly hard and had a strangely long reach for his height. Mike Tyson's weakness with being so short was opponents who could put him at a distance. You could not do that with Liston. He could fight up close or at a distance and anywhere... he hit hard... He's more technical than i think people often give him credit for.
I agree. Liston was not only naturally gifted with very long arms, one of the biggest fists in the history of boxing and a body of granite, he put it all to use in the ring too! If Ali had not been greater, who knows, Liston might have been Heavyweight Champ for 17 years!!
He had one of the hardest heads ever too!
He also had the largest hands in boxing history still to this day, at 15 inches.
@@georgelabauve3469 Indeed! Only Andrea the Giant had bigger hands at 21 inches, but he weighed over 500lb at 7ft 6in and would eat over 5 pounds of filet mignon and wash it down with 72 beers, you heard right, 3 cases of beers. Andrea could crush a can of beer like potato chips.
@@richardmilliken8705 exactly! Haha I always admired Andre, what an incredible person
According to Wepner, Elder Liston was undoubtedly the most powerful boxer he met in his career. In a recent interview, the question "(Ali) was your toughest opponent?" Wepner reiterated: "No. Sonny Liston was hitting a lot harder" (January 13, 2007)
He also stated that Liston hits harder than Foreman.
@@brendanfrost2475 Indeed! Chuckles Wepner said everytime that Sonny hit him, he broke something. Liston smashed & broke Chucks nose and fractured both cheek bones and cut Wepners face like a hot knife going through butter, it took over 100 stitches to patch Weppy up. Ali destroyed Wepner as well. He literally punished Wepner by not knocking him out but taking him the full distance at 15 rounds. I've met my fair share of boxers when i followed Marvin Hagler & Mickey Wards career and Wepner's face is one of the most scarred & beat up that i've ever seen from boxing ring damage.
Wepner did a Mexican and quit. What a bum🙃
@@brendanfrost2475 A 3-0 Foreman stopped Wepner in 3 while Liston took much longer. Liston is dead. Most people usually show respect to dead people. Every other boxer including who fought Liston and Foreman stated Foreman punched harder.
@@googlemyself4091 Which boxer by any chance said Foreman hits harder than Liston?
BTW a boxer knocking out someone faster is not an indication of being a harder hitter. Better puncher yes. Ali floored Williams faster than Liston does that mean Ali hits harder than Sonny. Mike Tyson floored Stewart faster than Foreman, yet Stewart stated Foreman hits harder.
Sonny was a 112 years old when he fought Wepner
paul lav lmfao
157 years old
yes its true the barber's from eddie Murphy's Coming to America also told me that too
112 and a half.
but unlike the 137 years old joe louis he won this fight
Old man Liston still with tons of game.....but chuck is a fun guy to watch...he literally knows every trick in the books plus he's huge.....I ll bet Liston was sore all over after this fight....but he was sharp enough to give us the great boxing quote...."no, the bravest is wepner's manager".....I m paraphrasing....
Wasn't it Wepner who had to have 70-odd stitches after the fight??
Sonny was killed/ dies mysteriously a few months later, but definitely not from any wounds he got throughout his boxing career!!
Liston is truly one of the top 4 heavyweights of all time
Except for Ali & Floyd Patterson -- I'm at a loss for any name heavyweight contenders to Liston. Chuck Wepner?
Liston fought some ranked names but none with any big following, or former title holders.
He fought many second-tier names & Liston was KO'd by a second-tier heavyweight Leotis Martin (3rd ranked fighter).
Liston dominated & even decked Martin (who suffered a detached retina) in the 4th round. Then, in the 9th round, Liston was knocked out cold.
Yeah, Liston would've faired well against a Rocky Marciano.
Hall of Fame? One of the top 4 of all time? You don't watch much boxing, do you? Look up who holds the record for most wins by KOs in the heavyweight division. You'll be surprised. It isn't Sonny.
Sonny deserves an honorable mention. But he isn't one of the greats of all time. Not even the Top 25.
Ali said Liston hit him the hardest. Ali also said Ron Lyle hit him the hardest. I don't believe in any of this BS. I do know during the filming of the Ali-Marciano computer fight Ali had to take 2 days off from filming because he couldn't raise his arms.
Reach is dangerous when a fighter is not skilled to deal with it. Reach never bothered a Rocky Marciano since he always got fearlessly in & under to deliver his crippling goods from the shoulder with his short powerful arms.
@@lastrada52 just those three
@@paleo704 - Check the record for yourself -- you can read & comprehend. Except for Cleveland Williams & Zora Folley, none of the names in Sonny's early career were fighters of note. Then he met Floyd Patterson who was good but he was no Rocky Marciano.
Then Sonny met a young Ali and those two fights are still debated as to their validity. Then he met Leotis Martin who KO'd him.
And while Chuck Wepner was stopped on his stool, on cuts, by Liston he didn't even KO Chuck after 10 rounds. Chuck was never a top 10 heavyweight.
Sonny never met people like George Chuvalo, Jerry Quarry, Oscar Bonavena, Manuel Ramos & Doug Jones -- Sonny may have stopped these fighters but these men were far tougher than who Sonny was meeting. I sometimes think Sonny was playing it safe. Some gave Joe Frazier & Ali a hard time.
Liston and Holmes definitely could be in the top five. Due to their body of work, length of tenure as champion, number of title defenses, Sonny was the #1 contender for six (SIX) years before he got a title shot. He was avoided like the plague. I know Rocky wasn't coming outta retirement to fight Liston, Williams or any of these lions, besides Rocky only defended his title a paltry,peezy six times and retired after only two years after aquiring the title, he'd fought all the Grand Papas and tomato cans he could find.
@@lastrada52 I thought Rocky would come out of retirement to fight Liston but Sonny wasn't your average grandpapa.
In a Liston biography, a Michigan State football lineman commented that he had seen plenty of athletes bigger than Liston, but none more intimidatingly massive. The difference is obvious versus Wepner, who is much larger, but Liston's body is terrifyingly compact in its musculature.
He had a massive back and traps. Also really large arms and forearms for someone with such long arms.
Liston's last match :(
I was an intimidator.Until I fought Sonny Liston...
-Chuck Wepner
MjahedTV he didn't say that you clown. I should knock you out for making up rubbish like that
omalone11
.. but he did say that. There's a video clip of him saying that. I just came from a video where Wepner discussed the damage Liston had done to him.
Jesse James link? Sounds like a good video
omalone11 here's proof ua-cam.com/video/C0KpXSDkXEI/v-deo.html
Wepner was just a big mummy witout a punch or skills
really wish we would have gotten to see Liston vs Frazier
Even at that age Sonny would have been worst for Joe than Foreman was. Sonny was a much more accurate puncher than the sopposed secound coming of himself and, was a much better technician than the onorthodox Foreman 1. They left Sonny out of that elimination tournament when Ali was suspended. Gee, go figure. Willie Reddish who use to work Sonnys' corner for years, was working with Joe then and, I don't think it would have been smart to fight Sonny even at that older age of Sonny. The big money was in a Ali-Frazier fight, that's one of the reasons they left Sonny out of that bullcrap tournament. They included Floyd Patterson but they left Sonny out of it ah? Patterson beat Bonavena, ah? Bonavena went the distance with Joe twice and, gave went almost all the 15th round with Ali. Stinks like hell don't it, Isn't it pretty obvious? Sonny was the most complete heavyweight champion of all-times at one time. Wasted too much time in jail too. Joe Louis said Sonny was the greatest heavyweight of all-times, he would have known.
TEDDYBEAR good stuff
But the fucking Underworld got rid of him instead !
I agree with you entirely.Sonny boy would have been champ for many years if he had got his chances when he was younger.He was awesome;a complete fighter and unbeatable for many years apart from the two rigged Ali fights.Chuck Wepner reckoned Sonny looked about 50 years old up close.That was Sonny`s last fight .His birth was a mystery and so was his death.Poor Sonny .Used and abused and possibly killed when he was no use to anybody.
djangorheinhardt Ali fights we're rigged? You must be a troll
This film footage looks like it's from the 1920s
Yeah. WTF!
But at least we can see how the fight was and how the boxers moved and threw punches.
@@sanD-xq8nb I was more jesting at the poor film quality for 1970.
😱😳
Yes....
Rumor has it Sonny was supposed to take a dive for Ash Resnick and that's why he got murdered just months after this fight and the mob made it look like a cover up.
Fuck the mob
You mean the mob made it look like an OD
But the reason it didn't happen is supposedly because sonny simply couldn't find a place to dive.
Yep. I've always believed this.
Yeah they had that on Unsolved Mysteries back in the 80's
Wepner said getting hit by Liston was the hardest hit he ever experienced
"Sonny Liston makes George Foreman look like Mr Friendly" was also what he said I believe.
@@quarantinejet2312 its because Sonny was more intimidating than George
@@michaelcorvin951
No it's because Liston is just as strong (stronger actually) and powerful yet much more skilled and scary.
Man what a gem! Thank you!!!!
I believe LISTON had the largest hands of any Heavyweight Champion, he was also on the album cover of Seargent Pepper!
Nope- that belongs to Primo Carnera. Sonny's hands were lunch boxes, PC's were like suitcases. lol
Another guy with huge hands was Abe Simon 6 foot 4, 260lbs of muscle
He was. Indeed on the legendary sgt peppers cover
He sang back-up on several Beatles' Albums, he had a lovely tenor's voice.
@@4EyedAnimation Youre a funny guy!
I thought Leotis Martin was the last fight Sonny had. Sonny got knocked out. But, Leotis Martin never fought again it was said he suffered a detached retina in that fight. Seems Chuck Wepner risked been blind also in this. They'd stop a fight well before this over that type of punishment dished out these days. Sonny's large fists on impact must have been as hard as concrete from his powerful shoulders unleashed. Awesome skilled power boxer heavyweight was Sonny Liston even into his old age. His track record proved it.
I've seen better quality Jack Johnson fights than this
paul lav that made me literally lol!
True!! But this was probably considered an unimportant fight back then...
I have a few of Jack's fights on tape. He was a great one though.
Now Jack Johnson against Sonny List on would have been interesting!
@@kevinbergin2225 Dude, I swear the fight with Jack Johnson was scheduled for 45 rounds. It was worse than Roman gladiators, brutal, ferocious, savage, vicious. That shysh was borderline criminal to say the least. I like to watch those old films and binge one weekend, that shysh was numbing and that's just the tip of the iceberg...SMDH...
Werner was a better fighter than I thought, he took and gave some good shots
He held and hit. He was the greatest rabbit puncher I've ever seen. Not sure I ever saw him land a stunning clean blow. His blows were chopping and often while he was holding.
Aye
@@delpage1 Sonny annihilated the Bayonne Bleeder,the Bleeder surely bled that night. The Bayonne Bleeder talking bout don't stop the fight if I'm cut. SHYTT, if they didn't stop it, the Bleeder would've BLED to death in the ring. Hopefully he'd pass out first. Thank God...
@@delpage1 When told he stepped on Ali's foot and knocked him down Wepner answered, "I did what I had to do."
@@aarondigby9859 One lady in the front row passed out from the sight of it.
Much respect and props 2 both fighters both were super skilled In their own boxing technics ✊✌
I say anyone who got into the ring with Sonny has my respect. Sonny’s hands were so big they barely fit into gloves. Sad how he ended up and no respect from the press when he became champion; quite the opposite. When he got off the plane after becoming champion no one was there to celebrate his win; that broke his heart ❤️
They love Floyd than Sonny
That would be different in our times now,sad.
Wepner would later say that Liston hit a lot harder than Foreman.
Most say Shavers hit harder than all of em.Ron Lyle was another one.
I seem to recall that Liston had an 88 inch reach, pretty huge. When asked if Wepner had courage for signing to fight him Liston replied No, his manager had courage.
84 inch, still HUGE. Ali had 79 inch reach
Doesn't wilder have an 84 inch reach while being 6'6" or 6'7"
@what. nbba thanks for correcting me bro
@@reinerbraun1798 82
@@reinerbraun1798 Fury is about 85
This was in 1970? The video quality is similar to Willard vs Dempsey....
(Agreed. Definitely a hand-held 16mm capture -- which by the looks of it, had been duped many times -- then someone synced-up an audio track.)
CW is one tough Dude. If he only had more skills. His heart was out of bounds, hung in there with the best even though his talent just was not there. It's no wonder Sly picked him as the basis for the Rocky movies. Yup, that was Chuck.
Wepner being such a tall man means he has to hit down and in doing so he loses power far better if Wepner developed a short snappy hook, as did smoking Joe. I have to agree with many comments saying what a very good boxer Liston was. Skill, timing, technique. What a shame Liston did not get the recognition he deserved.
BS talk to Tommy Hearns about hitting down
@@davidmoser3535 have you got his number Einstein?
This was Liston's last fight
I met Chuck Wepner and Ali when they were in Cleveland in 1977 forvgheir fight. I only shock hands with Wepner but we spent about a half hour with Ali who was a very nice soft spoken man in private but when the press came in he was a different guy.
First time seeing wepner in action he actually has pretty good movement
Not only is the date of Liston’s birth a mystery but the date of his death is also uncertain. His wife discovered his body at home after she had been away for several days.
Only information on listons birth comes from his sister, who said that he was born one year after the great war, which would be 1919 or 1920.
Wepner's boxing career, and fight with Ali after, inspired the 1976 film Rocky,[4] and other life events were chronicled in the 2016 film, Chuck. He was also the subject of the 2019 film The Brawler.
I would've loved to see Sonny Liston fight Earnie Shavers.....omg
I wish there was a color version of this fight.
Wanna see the REAL Sonny? Watch the two Cleveland Williams fights.
Omg so true
@das wright i believe sonny liston of old would have killed him seeing that chuck loves to take punches
I’ve been saying this so many time’s the real Liston is the Liston that took apart the Prime Williams twice, after getting a pounding.
I was more impressed with Williams lol, he held his own
0:19 even his age was a mystery.
the great RINGS magazine fights .... I had the TYSON and Holmes ones ... more please
Nobody had the reach on Sonny, he was what they called a small giant 6’1 with the reach of someone maybe 6’7 😳
Wepner started bleeding during the national anthem....
LMAO!!
Stole that from Dick Young didn't you?
@@kevinbergin2225 Bert Randolph Sugar, Who probably got it from someone else, and who probably got it from someone else........
He was murdered because he refused to take a dive in this fight like he did in the ALI 2 fight.
That is true.
You don't know that.
Sonny was a beast !!!
The cut wasn't created by the head, but the left jab. There is no way that the much shorter Liston could create the cut on the RIGHT eye using his head against an Orthodox. The commentator was OBVIOUSLY biased.
Sonny beat this Big Bloody Bloke to a pulp. I'mma give Chuck the credit he deserves, he's one tough former Marine. The more I watch this fight, Chuck is hard as hell to take such a bloody beating. I heard 383 stitches to repair the four cuts to his eyes, a broken nose and fractured jaw or separated jaw something to that effect. I'm in awe of how Wepner took that beating, you could tell he was obviously in pain serious...SMDH pain. The Bayonne Bleeder bled that night. FR FR
They say that Wepner started bleeding during the national anthem, as soon as the singer said “the perilous fight.“
🤣🤣
This looks as good as the "moon landing " in 69 that I watch on TV when I was 4 years old....now there talking about "going back" now that I'm 58..loud out laughing!
Wepner was the real Rocky
Never won a belt so how was he
Frazier was the real rocky
Frazier won an Olympic gold medal so he was hardly a Rocky
@@loyaldude10 I consider him the real life rocky.
@@rockfresh5359 the first rocky film was based of chuck Wepners fight with ali
Wepner may have had a height advantage over Liston, but I seriously doubt he had a reach advantage as claimed by the announcer. Liston had freakishly long arms.
this is fighting, not basketball height is good, if your playing basketball
You'd have long arms, too if you started working in the cotton fields at three maybe four years old, minimally at best carrying water to the field hands, y'all Gen xers, Y, Z, YY, ZZ and Millennials where have y'all been. That poor boy was worked like a man at six, seven, eight yrs old. WAKE UP Since y'all sooo WOKE.
Was this fought in 1970 or 1870? The video quality is horrible.
A lot of the comments here say how awesome Sonny Liston was, but the fact is, he lost badly twice against Ali.
The audio doesnt seem to match the video. The quality of the audio is very good.
Liston always appeared to be wide open but he would slip punches with ease and you couldnt hit him even though he was right there with his hands low. If you tried to hold him it didnt matter. He was so strong and skilled at grappling he would always get a hand free and pound to the body and head with it. If you tried to run it didnt matter because his reach was so long he would hit you with his jab. If you slipped inside his jab he would frame behind your head and throw a right hand to your head and then a left hook to the body as you tried to pull out from his clinch.
Liston was certainly in his forties by the time of this fight. Still had that great jab and despite the height disadvantage that big reach of his remained a potent weapon. The reality was that by the time Liston fought Patterson for the title he was already past his best and was nearer 34years of age than the official and quite ridiculous 28years!
Also if he survived he probably would have gotten another shot at the title after this fight. He was making a comeback like Foreman did in the 90's.
Well, Sonny listed 1932 as his dob. His wife was born in 1925, officially.
This is the fight that cost Liston his life ...he was told to take a dive ..he wouldn't and knew what he consequences would be
Does someone know the name of the man on the right of Sonny Liston at the end of the video (min 12.39) ?
Hmmm! Looks like a relative of Liston, doesn't he!! Only, about 3 levels smaller...
Sonny Liston was actually a little over 40 years old in this fight, if not older. Best estimate his birthday was early july 1930. Crazy to think what he would have done if he started earlier
What a pity that Liston is only remembered for the 2 fiascos against Ali. He was a tough, skilled fighter.
Thats what happens when you get involved in not fair play in matches you lose all the respect. Liston had very bad habbits and it was too much for him. Boxing in his mind wasnt about winningfor glory anymore it was for the purse and thats where things change.
Hippy(Bboomer) they weren't a fix Ali beat him
@classiccarz
Patterson was a cruiserweight.
Patterson was a heavyweight champion
@Hippy(Bboomer) stop making excuses it wasnt a fix sonny woildnt want to be embarrassed
Todays clowns wouldn't last 1 round vs Liston.. maybe Fury wpuld last longest but he would walk out looking ten times worse then he did against Wallin.
B G is correct in believing that Sonny had the largest hands of any champ, 15" round; Carnera just pipped at 14.75". Dempsey and Tunney both small at 11.25".
Chuck not only had over 70 stitches inserted post fight, he also had a broken cheekbone and nose. I saw him being interviewed many moons ago and remember this quote re Sonny:
' Every time he hit me it felt like he broke something '.
Liston aged 44 I would say, based on Floyd Patterson's reckoning, and Frazier wouldn't go near him: lucky Joe.
foreman sparred a lot with Liston in 68 and 69. foreman said he couldn't back Liston up. he also took on the Liston bad man image.
Yeah probably.
If the statement of Sonny Liston being 45 years old when he fought Ali is true, Liston would be 51 years old in this fight.
The earliest he could've been born was 1922 and the latest was 1930. If he was born in 1922 that would make him 42 years old at the time of the Ali fight... Imagine 35 year old Ali vs 35 year old Liston...shit imagine if we actually saw Liston at his prime when he was in his twenties, sadly that never happened because of to many police encounters snubbing his start off in boxing.
Sonny deserved better than what he got.
Liston most underrated ever (and Holmes) Liston is top 10 ever imo. He just met Clay/Ali at his fastest.
Chuck was indeed a great boxer , a guy who could take punches and and also throw punches .
Yes throw punches behind the head !!
great at getting his ass kicked.
To me he seems well rounded but not great at anything. He seems like he just has intermediate skills but his blue collar style toughness carried him through his career
Wepner was too brave mixing it . Trying to get close and match even an old Liston was nuts. Wepner Said Liston hit harder than Foreman, Chuck looked a frightful mess after trying to brawl with Sonny....
who's here after The Brawler
Chuck is better. Check that one out if you haven't already is great movie.
Wepner looks like Jason unmasked from Friday the 13
And Liston looks like Freddie Kruger with that 84" reach
Sonny fought like a big strong man supposed to.
Wepner = Rocky
Liston = Champion
Of curiosity, the announcer keeps talking about Liston using his head on Wepner and cutting his face and even says Wepner is “complaining to the referee about it.” Frankly, I don’t see any jarring jabs, crunching right hands or devastating left hooks being landed by Liston in this fight. It could by he was finished as a fighter and the loss to Martin was not just a loss but a crushing knockout the likes of which bring about the end to a fighter’s career.
Not a clear film print, but if you watch it again, you'll see plenty of punches by Sonny, who looks like he has plenty left.
Liston bet his entire purse from this fight on Mac Foster vs Jerry Quarry and he lost it when Quarry knocked Foster out.
Every time he hit me, he broke something! Chuck Wepner..
One of my favorite Wepner quotes. I think it came during an interview when he was asked if Liston hit harder than Foreman
@@ronaldlevao8251 Gotta love ❤️ The Bayonne Bleeder!
' stands about six feet two and a half ' : people shrink as they age, but the commentator had Sonny growing 2".
Wepner was only put down against Ali I hear , so not against Foreman ? As said in this commentary ?
Why can't people get their statistics right? In the 3rd rd commentary we are told that Sonny is 6'2.5" when he was half an inch over 6'.
👌👌👌👌👌👌🙂👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Sonny Liston looks so sturdy in these fights. I wonder what his diet and routine looked like
Wepner looks to be in much better shape here than in the Ali fight
Liston had a brutal jab.
Definitely. 84” reach and he was a converted southpaw so that was his strong hand as well.
Hammer Jab
anyway wepner had a great courage
Oh yes, that Wepner had!!
LOL at ali signing autographs for ppl ewho call him ali but not who call him clay xD
People from New Jersey are some of the toughest mofo's in the country. They don't fuck around in that area, like Philadelphia which borders New Jersey, and then Jersey City and Brooklyn, NY Those are some seriously rough areas, no wonder they produced so many great fighters!
1 Ali 2 Foreman 3 Liston. 4 Frazier. 5 Lewis. 6 Holmes
is this the original commentator?
+tannerVBHC Not, for sure..... lol xD
Wepner said getting hit by Liston was like getting hit by a baseball bat.
Listons sister (after he died) told a story that he was 8-10 years older (can’t remember exactly) then they claimed. She told the story that his manager told him that if he came out as a 30+ heavyweight nobody would take him seriously so she says they lied about his age. If that’s true he was in is 50’s in this fight. It’s crazy if true
This cannot be the original commentor. He sound like he's not even watching the fight..
Liston had agreed to fight George Chuvalo after this victory, but he did not live long enough for the fight to come off. He also turned down a Seattle fight against Boone Kirkman as he was filming a movie in which he played a truck driver battling a motercycle gang. Liston was probably near 50 in this fight. He could box and he could punch and we will never really know what happened in the two Ali fights or how he really died (or when he was really born).
+John Gerard Read Paul Gallenders book- Sonny Liston and the story behind the Ali fights. Then you'll know what happened. Many of us had heard rumors but Paul did the research and got the story.
+Cliff Moore If you think that was a legitimate KO, then I've some nice land down here in Florida for you. I asked Angelo Dundee once if the Anchor Punch was devastating, why didn't Ali ever use it again. He just smiled. Had dinner with Emile Griffith, who knew Sonny, and he told us all about the fix in the second fight, how the muslims had kidnapped Sonny's wife and son. He said Sonny told him if he was going to tank, he would make sure everyone knew it was a tank job. We knew this long before Gallenders book came out. If you talked to any of the old time fighters about that fight, they all say the same thing. Fix. You don't take flush shots from Cleveland Williams, walk through them to score a KO, and then go down from a punch my grandmother could have taken. I met Sonny in 1965 while he was training in Mass. and believe me, he was very much older than his stated age. Griffith said he was probably well in his 50's when he died.
+John Gerard estimate is that he was born in 1928, which would make him 42. he was listed as being born in 1932. no way was he nearly 50
+loyaldude10 I've spoken to people who knew Liston, and I met him myself in 1965, and he was well into his 50's when he died. He was supposedly 33 in 1965, and when I looked at that face, it was clear he was much older than stated.
+Cliff Moore You're quite the cynic. Now you think Moorer took a dive? Don't think for a moment I was trying to impress you with people I have spoken with. Perish the thought. With your outlook on the fight game, I certainly hope you don't watch any matches. I don't believe we have anything else to speak about.
Liston was the most underrated heavyweight champion ever, and in my view, if Ali had never been on the scene, Liston, would've been champion for the rest of the 60s. The 2nd Ali fight was dubious to say the least, which was a travesty. His jab was the best ever in any heavyweight, destructive and solid, he could knock a man out with either hand! It was sad how he died, which in my view, he was murdered
This was filmed in 1970 but looks like 1933
Probably used an old camera
Joe Louis thought Sonny was the greatest heavyweight ever.
LOL
Joe Louis said Rocky Marciano was the greatest heavyweight last century. Marciano died in 1969; Louis in 1981.
@@BruceAChristie If that’s true , then Joe had trouble making up his mind, because he definitely did say it about Sonny. I don’t have dates at hand; I’d think comments on Sonny were made years after those on Rocky being shortly after Louis lost to him.
@@lazur1I would love to hear it as it’s news to me. I do remember hearing Rocky Marciano talk about how incredibly strong Liston was. Liston was a fantastic boxer, so powerful with both hands and it’s unfortunate that his career went the way it did. Thanks.
'Mysterious circumstances' indeed, without any doubt the man was 'moidered'...
Poor Wepner had to get 72 stitches after this fight...
12:13 the commentary is hilarious. hahaha
If Sonny Liston was around today he would just destroy these Fighters it's like Angelo Dundee said if Sonny Liston was around today he'd have a party
Winning this fight by mistake might have cost him his life. Frankie Carbo et al were not happy.
W#epner nearly gave Clay all He could handle, too.
@philip crane ali didn't even train hard for that imagine if he did
Yes, Liston was top-10 all timer to be sure. But he committed the sin in the Ali rematch of throwing a title fight without even TRYING to make it look on the level. Hard to tell what he was thinking--was it smothered hostility against the guys who made him do it? (Geraldine, I think, once said he feared no man except for the guys who managed him.) He had been in great shape 6 months earlier --films of him training now available on youtube-- but when that was cancelled, he hit the bottle more than the heavy bag.
The voice\quality doesnt match the video.