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What If Supergoals Existed In The AFL?
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- Опубліковано 14 сер 2024
- Imagine a clutch goal sailing through from beyond 50 for 9 points, only to have the opposing team get one straight back from the center bounce.
This video dives into the scenario of Supergoals in the AFL, how it might've impacted previous seasons, and what might happen to AFL strategy if it were to be introduced.
Would long-range goals dominate?
Would the introduction of supergoals mimic the NBA's 3-point revolution?
Would it be a game-changer or a gimmick?
We try take a look at it all and explore how the game would be transformed.
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A serious case has just been made, and no stone was left unturned when considering the impact of introducing the super goal into the AFL! Legendary Woody and Editor James! 👏
Thanks mate, very much appreciated, James certainly deserves a massive shoutout for the efforts he went through!
There was probably more I could've gone into but at some point I had to stop myself and try to actually make a succinct story out of it..
@@WoodenSpoonData it’s legendary brother. @James that is some serious editing acumen my brother!
Another entrant into the independent AFL UA-cam content renaissance!!
I've always wondered what would happen if hitting the post was worth 3 points
Another great video essay! I'm all for a 9-pointer if we see more torps :D
I liked the nine point super goals in pre season matches. Don't know why they got rid of it
I just think it's not rare enough to get a goal and a half for it. I think 7/8 points is fare. I'd also worry about players just blazing away from 50 and missing more often because maybe statistically it would be worth it (like in the NBA).
That actually might be a better idea than mine, if I'm not mistaken Darryl Morey has also suggested reducing 3 pointers to 2.5 points, I dont mind 8 point supergoals but I'm not sure it disincentivizes taking consistent pings from distance enough
really good video. how long did it take u to compile all this together because that was a very entertaining 23 minutes but jeez that feels like it wouldve taken a fair minute or two
Thanks! All up it probably took just over a month with life commitments, if none of that was in the way I reckon James and I could've banged it out in under 2 weeks
Edit: It's also hard to say because I've got a fair few scripts in the works and sometimes I'll have an idea that goes nowhere but sometimes I'll sit on that idea for a while until I can make a better story out of it.
For this video I always knew I wanted to touch on the introduction of the 3 point line in basketball, it all came together pretty quick once I knew what I was going to be doing after the match data
The issue with super goals is that you can take a mark/get a free kick 10m out and take the kick from 51m out for 9 points. That makes no sense. Then with the 'Buddy's Arc' rule, no one knows exactly when play on is called now, I mean half the players are on the other flank before play on is called. Are they 9 point kicks, or 6 point kicks?
The NBA 3 pointer is not an equivalent, as the NBA doesn't have 'whistled' events, like a mark or a free kick, where the ball is stopped from being 'in play' for lack of a better term, a player can't elect to take a free throw attempt from behind the 3 point arc to get 3 pts or play on, jump behind the arc and attempt a 3-pointer.
In effect, to have a true 3-pt equivalent, you'd have to remove the concept of a mark or free kick. If the AFL wants a circus and introduce weird, wacky and wonderful rules like this, it's just a game of Yu-Gi-Oh with slightly more attractive people.
The rules that were used during pre-season tournaments where Supergoals were implemented already account for many of the issues that you're raising here.
For starters, marks inside 50 but kicked outside 50 are not Supergoals, they're regular goals. The mark has to occur from outside 50 and be kicked outside 50 for it to be 9 points. That has always been the standard where the AFL has experimented with the Supergoal.
Secondly, I don't agree with your point about removing marks or "whistled events" as you've put it. You only have a select few options to meaningfully shoot for a 9-pointer. Either you mark outside the arc and take a set-shot as described above, or you take a long-range shot on the run or from a backwards pass where the kicking player still has be situated outside 50.
While the NBA is not a perfect comparison, it is the closest comparable sport in terms of having most recently introduced a higher points scoring option in the three-point shot. No, you can't elect to take a free throw for 3, but you also can't elect to just take a free kick from outside 50 if you receive the free kick from 20 metres out in footy either...
In the NBA we do frequently see players deliberately step outside the 3 point line to elect to take a shot for three instead of two whilst in open play. Ultimately they are different sports so of course it's not going to be a perfect like-for-like comparison, but there are certainly relevant similarities that we can look to for a broader discussion on the subject.
@@WoodenSpoonData
Yes, I also watched the pre-season games where the supergoal rules were clearly established, but my gripe has been with the "stand" and "Buddy's arc" rules.
Virtually no player runs in straight towards the goal anymore outside of set shots taken from inside the goal square, and with the leeway given to the "Buddy's Arc" rule, no one is clear as to how far you can go off the mark for a set shot before play on is called.
So your scenario is a player marks a ball (or gets a free kick) 25m out, they walk their run up back to near on centre wing. On their windup, ust before they get to the 50m arc, they deviate off course enough for the umpire to call play-on and kick a goal with their non-kicking foot just outside the 50, is that a 6pt event or a 9pt event?
If the AFL is so desperate for more ad breaks to juice revenue, just give teams a mandatory time out each per half, something I've predicted will be implemented before the end of the decade.
This is incredible
Thanks mate, very much appreciated!
Incredible video, you deserve many more subs
I was mainly watching to see my '23 premiers tattoo was still valid under your ruling, lol.
Great video none the less.
1 rule change i would like - if it hits the post and bounces back into the field of play, then no point is awarded and play on!!
🇳🇿
We were also excited to see the outcome given how many games were decided by close margins in 2023!
Unfortunately the data didn't allow for such an analysis, but given that we didn't see any changes to the eventual premiers in 2021 and 2022, we can probably assume your premiers tattoo would be safe ;)
Your suggested rule change was also trialed in the 2005 pre-season tournament, but didn't seem to gain much traction or support in the AFL world...
Interesting. Too say it wouldn't have changed too many outcomes is a stretch because the rules weren't implemented so no one was taking advantage of the SuperGoal, had the SuperGoal been up and running more teams "Every Team" would be bombing them at the goal square from outside 50, especially in those dying desperate moments of a game especially if a Grand Final or a Flag was on the line.
I hope Laura Cain doesn't watch this video or she will change the rule mid season again!
Or perhaps reintroduce the SuperGoal just for the finals.
But seriously, yeah could be interesting knowing that most players are going to bomb it in from around 50 would make the Halfback line more important, maybe even produce a few Brownlow Medalists from Centre Halfback?
Hmmm, Nah.
Yeah I agree, I think it would become too dominant without a greater risk v reward factor and would just end up following the 3 point revolution in basketball.
The only solution I’ve come to would be removing behinds from shots outside 50 so it just becomes a kick in for the opposition.. Don’t know if I love the idea but it’s a potential solution.
And if Laura Cain reads this, please just bring it back for the preseason, play on from posters would be cool too.
Honestly, I think the true reward for a "super goal" is scoring from further up the ground. Scoring from outside 50 is a powerful tool, it can cut a whole play out of the game and completely bypass a team's defence. Giving extra points would unbalance it I think.
As fun as it might seem, implementing the Supergoal into the game full-time won't necasarily make the game more exciting to watch. All the gimmick does is make players more hesitant when lining up when around the 50m mark and become undecided on whether to to go for the long bomb or to do the slightly more sensible thing by punting it off to a free teammate inside 50. It just causes players to make mistakes in the moment, and ultimately not making the match's final score any higher.
Of course, if it's the dying seconds of the 4th quarter and the trailing team is 6 to 9 points behind, that would be the only scenario where the Supergoal would come into full affect. But i don't think it's enough to be an overall positive change.
I've got a MUCH better idea, make the super goal any goal kicked from the goal square. This would force teams to try and play and handpass, run and bounce all the way to the goal square, much more interesting. I'd also say it should only count if teams are behind by more than X number of points (10 at least), like a rare 'catch up' rule.
Historical analysis of results being changed by supergoals is pretty pointless because each team would have played differently if they knew goals beyond 50 were being awarded nine points.
Not trying to be rude but did you actually watch the whole video? He literally addresses that topic in his analysis :)
My bad, watched it half heartedly while preparing coffee
@@midooley543 Haha all good :) been there before too!
I think they’d be two powerful, not only would you have the opportunity to set up because of behinds, but if you don’t make the distance then it’s still an inside 50. They wouldn’t remove behinds from outside 50 the fans would complain. I reckon make it like 8 or 7 points (although 7 sounds like a shit deal).
Yeah all reasonable points, love the idea but seems like it would be very hard to implement while keeping the game balanced
@@WoodenSpoonData Great analysis. I too would like to see super goals again but I agree with @yar1, 9pts is too much. 7pts seems fair if you allow that ~1/6th of all goals are scored from outside 50 , 6+(6*1/6 )=7. Tallying up the score eg: 3.6.11. 68 would puzzle newcomers even more :)
I'm all for making it as confusing as possible for the casual fans
@@WoodenSpoonData make it harder for the yanks to understand
How about:
Double the value of current scoring : So:
a Goal is worth 12 points
a behind is worth 2 points, then
a SuperGoal could be worth perhaps 15 points [effectively adding 1 1/2 behinds to a normal goal]...
Balls hitting the GoalPosts could now be worth 3 points &
Balls hitting the Behind posts could become 1 point events.
Match Scoring would be denoted something like:
*3* [15], 10 [12], _2_ [3], 8 [2], 2 [1] : 189
I think youd need to change the 50m to a keyway. 50m is too close to the edge of most players range, so most super-goals would be from marks just outside 50; a small 5-10m strip across the ground. Eventually that part of the ground would become stagnant as forwards are incentivized to lead there, and defenders are forced to heavily protect it. Changing to a key would increase the volume of the ground capable of generating super-goals while keeping the skill level high (due to the angle).
Great stuff
Has the idea of if it hits a goal post and bounces back in play, it's play on been ever considered by the afl? (padding wouldn't count)
Yes, this rule was trialed during the 2005 pre-season tournament, but didn't get much traction after that!
Yep good idea ... goal and super goal only .... get rid points/behinds ... there should be no score for missing... hitting the post is also no score
I think they should bring back the 3 point rushed behind too
im just imagining a team down 8 late in the last with the ball inside 50
Oh yeah it’d be frustrating and hilarious, nuffies would be pulling what’s left of their hair out haha
7 points would be enough.
9 points would need to be from the square.
I think it should be 9 points for hitting the post above the padding.. that way there is more risk involved and way more skill
Alternatively, a super goal line being 60 or 65m out I wouldn't be agaisnt, would take a horrid lack in defence in order for most anyone to kick one.
I think adjusting the line might be necessary if you wanted to introduce it, I probably had another 3-4 minutes on why it should only be a 9 pointer from 60 but at some point you have to call it ya know
Sydney would have kicked 1.30.19 (208) against the Eagles. The only supergoal I saw was Gulden's third goal.
Yeah I don't think the Eagles would've been able to make up the difference in supergoals, but who really knows haha
The only game I saw that would change in 2023 was the draw between carlton vs richmond in rd 1, where carlton would win from Docherty in the 4th
AFL is the greatest sport in the world. Why change greatness. Super goals are an incredibly stupid idea from the goal umpires signal 🙌 to the scorecard.
Is the 3-pointer in basketball a stupid idea?
9 points for running goals outside 50. Set shots outside 50 doesn't qualify. Nor does playing on from a set shot or handball off to a kicker.
Bring back the nab cup
8 point super goal
Nah give us a 2 point superbehind
Oh please.....stupid comparison considering these games would of been played differently with this rule
Sounds like you’d be more interested in the 2nd half
*Would have ;)
In a word, your golfing analogy is a NO! NEVER! I HATE THIS UTTERLY
Haha can't please everyone
What golfing analogy?
@user-qd6ml3mw3m my bad, basketball. Almost as interesting.
supergoals are stupid. they would make the game boring and more like aeriel ping pong. wow wee just what everyone wants, more people kicking goals from half field, lmao. how about putting a crossbar in the middle and anything over that is a 6. under is a 4 (or whatever) in-between the outer posts is a 2 (or whatever). remove the idiotic 1 point of hitting the posts. why should you get 1 point for missing? limits people from soccering the ball through.
They don't, so that ends that discussion.
You must be fun at parties
@@RickyPro888 fuck yeah, we discuss low IQ themes of rules that don't exist.
Binary thinking.
In soccer u score outside the box is 2 goals or half court shots in basketball should be 5 points cmon rules are rules please dont ruin our beautiful game, u employ super goals then u might as well god rid of 2 of 3 forwards. In pre season i get it but regular season No bloody way
just a hypothetical mate i dont think andrew dillon is watching these videos