such an ignorant statement. He has a lot of knowledge in science and evolution but he is no where near to being a mufti not even a student of knowledge.
Wow.. the most informative video u will ever see. Some would spend 3years in university to learn and understand what this gentlemen has explained in the space of half an hour.. this guy Saboor is shockingly intelligent in explaining describing and teaching evolution.. He goes against the mainstream view of Darwinian evolution but has stronger more logical and more reliable alternative to the mainstream Darwinian evolution thought to students all over the world.. this man is really great..
@@Devdraco I think it annoys you that some Muslims have greater intellect than you. Aren't you tired of commenting on pro Islamic videos? Get a life pal, you probably don't believe in God so in that case you've only got this limited time on earth and thus by extension a limited time in existence itself. Stop wasting it in the comments section.
@@haid3r88 While typing in the comments section. Lol, do you not see true irony in that? Suboor, you must mean, who you believe is more intelligent than the average fellow. The sad fact is that he isn't. Half an hour of using a search engine will clear up any questions he has regarding real information. Everything else is woo.
I can't be bothered watching the whole video , the editing strikes me as excessive, so I'm left wondering how Saboor explains that evolution is unfalsifiable, care to help me out?. There are a whole series of predictions and tests that evolution has already passed so what is Saboors claim about this?
tdsdave First of all, you don't even know the topic of their discussion. It is not about Evolution. It is about Darwinian evolution and there is a difference. Secondly, you know that the claim is about the unfalsifiable nature of the theory, so asking about the claim won't help as much as asking about the arguments he made would; which, I think, is better explained by his own words and in the form of a debate or speech rather than text form in a comment section or else it would be more beneficial to read a book about the topic. "I can't be bothered watching the whole video" You know what? don't even bother asking about something that challenges your core beliefs and world view. It's not that important after all, don't you think?
Omer You sound like you have a bee in your bonnet, so defensive. So in brief you can't offer an explanation for why evolution is unfalsifiable even though its predictions have been tested and passed. Guess I'll wait for Asad to answer that one. *"It is not about Evolution. It is about Darwinian evolution and there is a difference."* Scientifically biological evolution has for almost one hundred years not been simply been Darwinian evolution, today we have what is called the modern synthesis. So what is this distinction between evolution and Darwinian evolution you are insisting exists and how did my question violate that?. People colloquially, at least scientifically use the word evolution to mean biological evolution , so why ,if you really have a good reason, is the need to be so anal ? Its almost ironic how asking a question leads you to say don't ask question if I'm not interested , what kind of logic is that. Its actually a much better conversation to have in text . Debates or speech is not how science works what makes you think that is what I'm after, I'm looking for the argument not the way someone presents it. If you can't articulate yourself it give me a time stamp.
tdsdave. "You sound like you have a bee in your bonnet, so defensive." Am I? I don't know what I'm defensive about. And you sounded closed minded by not "bothering" to watch the video. I don't know you. I don't know if you are here to learn or to prove others wrong. I presumed the latter is correct based on what you said. "you can't offer an explanation for why evolution is unfalsifiable even though its predictions have been tested and past." So according to you, a theory is falsifiable if it's predictions were accurate. I thought it was the exact opposite of that. Can you clarify by giving me a hypothetical scenario of when Evolution by natural selection would be false? I don''t have to offer an explanation. You have to prove that it is falsifiable. The claim is that you can't, so disprove it. "So what is this distinction between evolution and Darwinian evolution you are insisting exists and how did my question violate that?" Evolution or speciation is the process by which species came into existence and such process was known even before Darwin. Today, there are many different theories about the mechanisms by which evolution occurs and the Darwinian theory by natural selection is only one of them. So, the distinction should be made because this is the specific theory under discussion in this video on whether it is falsifiable or not. And apart from that, please mind your language. English is not my first language so I don't know if what you said is appropriate or suitable for a civilized discussion. "..leads you to say don't ask question if I'm not interested " I didn't say that. I suggested that either watching the video or reading a book would be more "beneficial". I didn't know you weren't interested in learning as much as you are in debating.(I was being sarcastic when I said "don't bother asking" to make a point which, I guess, you did not get?!) "Its actually a much better conversation to have in text . Debates or speech is not how science works.." I don't think scientists debated on-line either especially not on UA-cam's comments section. And, we are not about to do science so how science works is irrelevant to how people communicate its findings. "I'm looking for the argument not the way someone presents it." OK, you aren't that smart. I was not referring to the form of presentation in terms of aesthetic perception but in terms of clearness, ease of understanding and benefits. Those factors do matter and are, indeed, taken into account by scientists so let's put logical fallacies aside.
The only path this would take you is to have your children being laughed at. Deluding yourself that Quran don't contradict Science is a dark path. The world is changing as fast and to deny any advances we made in Science will see that you or your generations to come will never reach anywhere near the advances others have. That is call competition and while people are giving their best at racing you guys are sitting at a corner laughing at them while ultimately losing every single race.
Agha Talal As salaam alaikum I want to ask you something ? First of all my name is Alee ibn Muhammad and I have been thinking about something I believe you can be good assets to this project is there a way I can contact you ?
@ Abu Well you could give me your email. I don't have twitter and I can't remember the last time I was on facebook, I am not very big on the social media thing. I am active on quora and youtube. But I haven't uploaded any videos.
+Agha Talal You must remember that just because someone's an atheist doesn't automatically imply they know everything about the origins of life. This is Subboor's area of expertise, and he debates top scientists in Darwinian Evolution and other theories. It was a really good discussion and I learned a lot from it. Nice to see Subboor refrain from all the grandstanding he often does. When he's cordial I feel we can all learn more from him. Peace. Craig
One problem though You may intellectually believe in a god as explained by books. But how can you convince your body to believe in that intellectual god more than he believes in you?
yeh islam is pure truth. the god who created the billions of galaxies is the same god who tells you how to fondle your wife while she's menstruating and tells you to step into the bathroom with your left foot first. it's pure objective logic
@@سراقة-ل5ن No, he didn't, because not only does physics not work by auditory transference alone, it would be impossible to confirm this data without greater context. In THEORY, he *COULD* learn more--but to state that he learned as a matter of fact is incorrect.
@@ELD7MY94 *Possessing* an arbitrary amount of knowledge and then claiming you somehow learned *more* from the foolishness displayed in the video by auditory transference alone is, in itself, foolish.
Rasheed Rosenje Piscatoris Severiorum The Holy Qur’an clearly stresses the importance of religious freedom. There is no compulsion in the matters of religion. Faith is an individual concern and commitment, between you and the One God. “There should be no compulsion in religion. Surely, the right way has become distinct from error.” (Holy Qur’an, Chapter 2, Verse 257) It must therefore be something which you desire, not what is forced upon you. If you force a faith upon someone, then it becomes hollow and without true conviction. Islam stresses on a person finding the truth through their own path. If a faith is true, then it will appeal to the heart.This is why the verse states: ‘Surely, the right way has become distinct from error’. Islam stresses that we must not force or compel another to believe.Elsewhere, in Chapter 10, Verse 100 of the Qur’an, we read: “And if your Lord had enforced His will, surely, all who are on the earth would have believed together. Will you, then, force men to become believers?” This verse shows that religious freedom is part of Allah’s design. Allah hasn’t forced anyone, so who are we to do so? By forcing your faith upon someone, is really having no faith at all. This is not the idea behind Allah creating this physical world. As the verse states, it could have been easy for Allah to force His Will, but Allah gave us free will instead; gave us choices. We must choose the right path or be answerable for the consequences. In fact there is an entire chapter of the Qur’an, Sura Al-Kafirun (109), which clearly explains how with should conduct ourselves with n Non-Believers: “In the name of Allah, the Most Gracious, ever Merciful, Say, O ye disbelievers, I worship not as you worship, Nor do you worship as I worship Nor do I worship those that you worship Nor do you worship Him Whom I worship, For you your religion and for me my religion A clear statement of religious tolerance in Islam. .Its a tragic irony that much of the Islamic world has lost sight of Islam’s true and essential teachings concerning religious freedom. I would like to give examples from Islamic history, Quranic verses and Prophetic sayings with regards to religious tolerance The cousin of the Prophet Mohamed and leader of the Muslims after the Prophet, Imam Ali states “Know that people are of two types: they are either your brothers in religion or your equals in creation.” Meaning that all people, no matter what religion, race or class they come from, are supposed to be treated equally, because either people are your Muslim brethren, or your equals in humanity who have the same rights as you and cannot be discriminated or disrespected for their beliefs. In fact, to disrespect another religion is explicitly condemned in the Qur'an Do not abuse those whom they worship besides Allah” (6:109). If a person claims to be Muslim, he is not allowed to insult or disrespect another religion. This is forbidden according to the Quran.Even to engage in arguments with Non-Muslims in a disrespectful manner is prohibited, as the Quran states: “And argue not with the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), unless it be in (a way) that is better (with good words and in good manner), except with such of them as do wrong, and say (to them): “We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you; our God and your God is One, and to Him we have submitted”(29:46)[1]. If to talk to a person of another faith in a rude way is impermissible, then to kill them in the name of religion is just despicable and completely wrong! It is narrated that Imam Ali was once walking in the streets, and he passed by a Christian beggar. His question was, “Who is this?” When they told him that he is an old Christian man who cannot work and is asking people for help, the Imam replied and said, ““you [the Muslim community] used him [in his youth] and when he became old, you left him.” Then the Imam assigned a salary for him from the treasury, the same way he did with Muslims . This portrays that Islamically, Muslims and non-Muslims are supposed to be treated in an equal manner under an Islamic government, without anyone being discriminated. I would like to end with a saying from the Prophet Muhammad: “Beware! Whoever is cruel and hard on a Non-Muslim minority, or curtails their rights, or burdens them with more than they can bear, or takes anything from them against their free will; I (Prophet Muhammad) will complain against the person on the Day of Judgment.”(Abu Dawud).
Panthera spelaea You never asked me WHY I said people like Subboor continue to allow me to believe in a Creator. It isn't because of his Dawah style. It's due do to his intellect. Secondly no one is forcing anyone from what I have seen to join Islam. I'm not sure where you are seeing compulsion in this discussion. Can you please explain?
Rasheed Rosenje There's a small joke that the existence of creationists is evidence against creationism, because God wouldn't design something so stupid. That said, I honestly don't think most creationists are actually stupid (many of the people who promote the stuff quite clearly aren't, but for the wrong reasons), most are sound and decent people, some may not question their beliefs, and/or don't know any better etc. It's just that what is taught by most forms of creationism is insanely inaccurate. His intellect? To be frank, I must applaud him for his skills in public speaking and articulation, but it only goes that far, the way I see it. He puts on a convincing display, pull outs names and quotes on the wing whose accuracy we have to give the benefit-of-the-doubt to, even when they're false, and will often out-shout his opponents in an attempt to dominate the conversation and make himself look/feel good. You may or may not be aware of the recent video of him mocking an opponent who walked away, and made chicken noises to taunt him. Not exactly what a typical grown man in his 20s/30s would be doing in an intellectual conversation. Again, I'm sure he's been trained to entertain a crowd, which is very useful in promoting his dogma, but that doesn't change reality. I find his actual position that he attempts to articulate, quite unintelligible, even under all the vocabulary. For example his arguments on evolution, both seen at SC and on his personal channel, are not exactly clear, and at times incoherent. He often states that multiple models might explain the same data, in an attempt to equate evolution with creationism, as if they're on a level playing field, but completely disregards parsimony and Occam's razor in choosing the most probable model (e.g. hoofprints in the dirt probably signify a horse/ass/zebra, but _could_ be explained by the presence of a centaur, unicorn or Pegasus. Which would you find most probable?). For example, we know that natural and sexual selection (the legendary "Darwinian mechanisms") and genetic drift are inevitable in a biological population with environmental pressures, and have more than shown themselves to be able to explain what we observe in said populations (behaviors, phenotypes), so if we find a new species, we can say that given the available evidence, it most likely evolved via a means similar to that, since those are the only ones that could adequately explain what we observe. Lamarckism and orthogenesis (both touted by Subboor), for example don't have the evidentiary basis that the aforementioned have, which is why they've long been abandoned. And there's the rest of his claims, that somehow atheism and the modern synthesis are religions despite how easily refuted that statement is, morality is somehow contrary to human survival and reproduction, evolutionary biologists are somehow trying to conspire against god (most don't care about him) by making their theory, his whole kerfuffle on homology and homoplasy, etc. Sorry for writing so much (there's probably more I'd like to say), but yeah..
Mr. Ahmad, I respect your deep level of knowledge with regard to science and the philosophy of science and your skepticism, coming from an agnostic that believes in evolution. This was a very good video and I was pleased to learn about some of those biologists with alternative theories you named. Keep up the good work!
I would suggest to read on the philosophy of science. Very interesting discussions on that topic are out there. And some not even close to what so-called science-guys regurgitate.
Atheists pride themselves for being critical of all religions and claim to live a way of life that is not ‘religious’ in any sense. However, a lot of the neo-militant atheim resembles religion in many ways. Here are a few: Object of worship (glorification and sanctification) - Universe Dogma - Science Mosque/Church - Public school the church of atheism ‘Prophets’ - Bertrand Russell, Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens.. ‘Holy’ scriptures - The God Delusion (Gospel of Dawkins), God Is Not Great (Gospel of St.Hitchens), Universe From Nothing (Gospel of Krauss) and many more.. Shaykhs/Scholars/Priests - Scientists/Greek Philosophers/Enlightenment thinkers Annual Pilgrimage - World Atheist Convention Law and Jurisprudence - Secular liberalism/Marxism/Communism/Democracy (many madhabs) Denominations - Communists/Capitalists/Feminists Articles of faith - scientific rationalism/freedom of expression/humanism/religion is man-made Rituals - mocking/cursing religious beliefs and concepts Arguments for Atheism - mocking/cursing religious beliefs and concepts Testimony of belief - ‘Science answers all truths’/’religion is nonsense’
Abu Muhamed Alee Al Ansari I can't tell if you're trying to type out a legible English comment, but I don't see any apologies strewn there. No skin off of my nose.
False comparison, that two statements share the same characteristic doesn't mean it has the conclution you put it. Atheism doesn't say universe has no meaning . Atheism is a stand about gods. People could think that universe has no meaning because of the conciousness it has. That mean brain interpret the exterior world as a subjetive perception.
We all have to bear in mind the purpose of these discussions. First and foremost it is to learn. Making fun of others or laughing at them would give the wrong impression. As for us muslims, at the end of the day, our purpose is to please Allah hoping that maybe you will be the reason a person is guided to the right path. Another point i would like to mention the involvement of the brother who was standing on the fence. In my humble opinion he should have stayed quiet, because Suboor was great at what he was doing.
“Science is the best representation of truth, can you empirically prove that statement?” A couple things wrong with subboors critique of this statement: The dude never said science is the ONLY representation of truth so this trap doesn’t work. He could verify it from a rationalist viewpoint. We can ask subboor what the best way to find truth is, and if subboor says reason/rationalism, then we can ask him to prove that statement, in which subboor would have to use rationalism to prove it, and his argument becomes circular. It’s called the problem of criterion.
I laughed so hard when he said " truth can be subjective aswell " , suboor: " then why we having this conversation " That is funniest shit from atheist if u know what that means.
The reality of existence is an axiom.If u don't agree that existence of material objects in this reality is an objective truth than u might aswell believe that it is possible that your father is actually a pink elephant with magical powers in disguise? if u don't believe that to be a possibility, which I presume, than ur not being consistent with your proposition.
DawahMedia no bro - well I filmed a shahadah but if you want it I can give it to you - it's the one muhammad tawheed did with the brother called "live". Shot from single angle - I haven't uploaded it!
subboor ahmad is one of the people who can make general people aware of science more than the classroom trainings. this guy needs to be saved for humanity . m glad we have such people on this earth to break the stereotypes . . .
4:30 Suboor could have had a better response to this. And I think Suboors argument is wrong since he is bringing the discussion back to natural phenomena. The atheist implies that miracles are irrational. The response is as follows: Miracles are by definition phenomena which are contrary to the laws of nature. The argument depends on whether there is a God or not. If there is a God i.e. an entity that transcends and can override natural laws then miracles are clearly possible. So the argument is not whether miracles are possible or not, but whether there is an entity that transcends physical laws.
Husky light path You know arguably less. You are watching a video filled with bias and misinformation. Build your own knowledge. I don't care who or what you are--to make up your own mind off of another's is disingenuous and dangerous.
I have researched all 3 Abrahamic Religions and found Islam to be the True Religion of God. As for Judaism it is all about the Chosen People and is almost racist as you cannot be a Jew unless you are descended from one of the Twelve Children of Israel. Judaism fails to satisfy the essential criteria of a religion by requiring external obedience to moral laws, having a secular focus, and lacking a concern for immortality. Furthermore Judaism also lacks a belief in an afterlife which is actually necessary for human ethical behavior in this life. And as for Christianity it is an almost idolatrous religion as they lack the principle of the One, True God with no partners. Christians had to follow One God, but they have made God multiple, not singular. And not to mention many of the internal consistencies and errors contained within the Bible. Many Christians try to combat this problem by selectively interpreting each verse according to the context of the verse, but critics argue that the selective invocation of portions of the Old Testament is hypocritical, particularly when those portions endorse hostility towards women and homosexuals, when other portions are considered obsolete. There are also hundreds of versions of the Bible, whereas only one version of the Quran. This is the reason why I chose to reject Christianity. And the reason why I chose Islam is because in the Old Testament it is mentioned: "God said to Moses, on whom be peace: “I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him.” (The Holy Bible, New International Version, Deuteronomy chapter 18, verse 18). And also it says in John Chapter 16 Verses 12-13 Jesus says: "I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come." The Bible says this Prophet of God will be a descendant of Ishmael through Kedar who was Abraham’s grandson, and the second son of Ishmael (Genesis 25:13). He also founded a city that is mentioned quite a few times in scripture called Selah. Hence this Prophet can be nobody but Prophet Muhammad SAW. So both Moses and Jesus (peace be upon them both) have testified to the coming of Prophet Muhammad SAW. The prophet described in the above verse must have the following three characteristics: 1. He will be like Moses (Muhammad was exactly like Moses in that he was a Warrior, a Husband, Messenger of God, Leader of the Community and many other similarities) 2. He will come from the brothers of the Israelites, i.e. the Ishmaelites(Muhammad SAW was an Arab). 3. God will put His words in the mouth of that prophet and he will declare what God commanded him.
That was deep and well explained! It's quite clear that the tall white guy is following something not out of logic or truth, but out of convenience. I wish him peace and guidance.
No different to religious people, so please stop the hypocrisy. As Muslims, we are asked to submit ourselves wholly and to believe everything we are told and how dare we question, not test, question anything Islam says. After some time we become blind followers as it is just easier to follow then question or lead.
@gblueslover2 where did you get hold of that butchered version of history? Would be really nice for you to explain through historical research.. or did you just come with emotions mixed with bullshit. Nobody ever claimed he intimated her parents and that her hair fell out. There's literally no testimony for that by either Muslims or non Muslims. Your forefathers probably impregnated females just as young from the same time period. I don't get what your weak point is.
I just love the moments in which the interlocutors of Brother Shuboor, remain open-mouthed and in which their only answer is: "what !!!!!!!!". Fantastic, they are unforgettable moments.
Can't be believe what he said at the end... " I still don't believe anything he said" but at the same time he is believing in Atheist Darwin Evolution without Proper Evidence. Like Allahs Revealed in the Quran along the lines of... " You can Show them the Truth but they will still not Believe"
smokingitzy I can hear anything and everything and every angle tackling a certain subject that is complete bullshit but at the end of the spiel I'm still going to think it's bullshit. Fancy words and tiptoeing around logic does not impress nor change the flawed, inherently disgusting, pathetically defended "religion" that is Islam.
5:24 laws of nature are based on observation".. he then went on to say a horse with wings falls outside that category. A cell evolving into a human being with cognitive abilities and DNA has ever been observed? .. So his own belief in evolution goes against the "laws of nature" based on his criteria of observation 👀 Double standard..
Mikel eclok wut??? It has been proven countless of time mobile.nytimes.com/2006/01/03/science/from-bacteria-to-us-what-went-right-when-humans-started-to-evolve.html Just because your ignorant of something doesn't make you right
mloik azerty this is called having blind faith in the words of scientists... Just Because someone wrote an article on internet is that somehow suppose to be make it true ? I want you to actually prove this just so story by providing us bacterialike ancestors that we can observe and test ourselves rather than having faith in the words of scientists !!!
Except that evolution has been observed. Changes over time have been observed and speciation has been observed. The theory that humans evolved overtime is an inferred conclusion based on the demonstration of the proof of concept that change within gene frequency does occur. So whilst the evolution of humans from a single cell to a multi cellular organism has not been directly observed. the mechanism by which it would be possible has not to mention the fossil record and the observation of chromosome 2 which strongly suggests that humans and chimpanzees are related, that is what is meant by observational science. Observation does not necessarily mean that someone observed each events that took place, but that they have observed evidence that suggests the conclusion. There doesn't need to be an eye witness for the police to determine that there was a murder, but they can observe the evidence that suggests there had been. But regardless evolution isn't even a necessity of atheism. Evolution being true or not isn't a problem for Atheist, the only reason it enters the debate is because it is a problem for people who have a literal translation of the Bible or Quran. Even if evolution was proven to be absolutely false tomorrow that would not permit you to conclude that a God exists, proving one claim false does not prove another claim to be true. Whilst evolution gives a naturalistic understanding of the diversity of life on this planet, if no such understanding existed the only thing that we could conclude based on the information available is that we don't know. To understand why the horse with wings is treated differently to evolution is to have an understanding of what the null hypothesis is, and to have an understanding of the Black Swan fallacy.
It's quite easy to pretend that you've won an argument when you are shouting at some random guy with little knowledge on the topic, probably no experience in debates, on the street. When the muslim guy would try to debate someone who actually knows what he's talking about like Hittchens, Dawkins or Harris, it would be easy to see how wrong his arguments are.
Devdraco look whos talking. I dont eat pig so i dont act like one nor i m one. It is u ppl who eat that pig so according to psychological a person whatever they eat will mostly act like one. So stop being brain ape learn before u speak ape.
Smile Smile Poor thing. Yes and no. One would read from your poorly thought-out comment that you are implying someone eats ape. If your intention was to try to deflect the characteristics of a pig to describe the pig I mentioned, then you should not have tried to call me an ape after the entirety of your comment was that exactly. It's important to learn sentence structure and context if you intend to try to be witty and label someone, sort of like I did. So... Perhaps learn to write English?
Smile Smile No-one needs to tell me I'm an ape? I mean... I guess...? But you did it anyway, didn't you? I don't know if you're still trying to be witty or you're actually just dumb. Did I claim that my ancestor came from apes? Even if I were an ape, I must be the most intelligent in the world because I appear to be leagues smarter than you are. Why do you need to repeat yourself? I didn't say that you did, but you can repeat yourself all you like because it's not going to make you look better than you'd made yourself out to be--boorish and foolish. How am I going to tell you what you do or don't think? That's called ignorance. Yes, I am an atheist. Do you even know why you're here anymore? At this point is it just a desperate attempt to appear cool and clever when I've made you look like a clown? Lol
Devdraco ape u talk to much. U called me a pig brain. N now u r crying about me calling u an ape. Go cry to ur mom about it cuz no one gives a damn hoot here. Secondly did u just said u r smarter? in what way? i guess in lying lol. Tell me what is ur belief? arent you an atheist? go on lie to me and every one here. Did i claim this did i claim that blah blah blah lol bullshit. If u didnt claim nothing then shut the fuck up and go cry to ur momy. Cuz i dont speak with idiots who doesnt have any claims and yet trying to argue on no claims lol
Any form of evolution for debate is welcomed - whether by natural selection, mutation, or combination of several aspects. As long as they can accept macro-evolution and not assume all animals or humans were just made by a so called god directly.
strictly speaking islam only has a problem with humans sharing a common ancestor with all other living beings.They believe God made a special distinction for human beings in that they were created in the form we see today
"if we lived under another system you think killing small children would be O.kay?" European history has confirmed that affirmatively. You may want to adjust that part of the argument.
I believe that open mind ness come at different level. Atheist believe that they are open minded because they only believe in what is tangible. Yet when the limit of mind is stretched and they are confronted with deeper logic, although they see the logic, yet it is difficult for them to change their perception or mind set. In my opinion, that is not open minded. Being open minded means you should go wherever logic takes you.
chris chow the definition of open mindedness is to follow logic where it takes you. But just claiming that “only one book is the whole truth”. Has absolutely no meaning unless discussed logically and follow the trail. If you can’t follow the discussion in the clip is another concern. So you conclusion is meaningless.
@@Just_logic what if we tell you that we don't believe in a book that say the sun sets into a pool of murky water? Does your open mindedness include the ability to judge what you read or you need to accept it even if it contains nonsense? That is what I am trying to say. If you treat the Quran is from god no matter what it said than you are not being open minded. That is call closed minded.
chris chow The discussion that is taking place is a philosophical one. Different beliefs is going back in forth. The atheist guy was presenting his belief system and was being answered by the guy that was a Muslim. He wasn’t referring to Quran. He was just claiming that atheism has holes in it due to the reasons he gave which seemed pretty easy to follow. Just because you can’t follow the logic it does not mean it is not logical. The question to you is what is the reference of not making sense to you? Yourself?? Really?
The guy in the sunglasses was way out of his depth. He was blinded by fast talking and detracting. All he had to say was, 'so OK, you state the Prophet flew up to heaven on a winged white horse is scientifically provable to be true, yet his grave site is in Medinah KSA, can you explain that to me?'... And then listen as the Muslim fella go off on another tangent. I subscribe to no religion - they are as crazy as each other, that said. I'm really pleased that Muslims now are taking the time to engage with people. Whether they disagree or not! We may finally live in relative harmony. 👍 💪😊👍👁
In his famous essay “On Bullshit”, philosopher Harry G. Frankfurt defined the so-called ‘bullshitter’ as a person whose main aim is not to communicate truth, nor even to consciously lie, but rather to make statements that further the bullshitter’s own ends and suit his agenda irrespective of the truth or falsity of those statements... The tactic of new atheists atheism, when defined as a lack-of-belief, all too often is little more than a debate tactic used by atheists to deny that they positively believe anything about the God question, thereby allowing atheists to appear intellectually legitimate when they avoid the burden of proof for their position however the atheist’s embrace of lack-of-belief atheism is often not a reflection of what the atheist truly believes, but rather, it is just a disingenuous move to help the atheist achieve a rhetorical advantage in his intellectual fight with the theist. And it is precisely such evidence, when combined with further points, which provides us with the grounds to reasonably believe that when it comes to lack-of-belief atheism, many atheists are, quite simply, intellectual bullshitters.
Devdraco don't take my words for let's hear what an atheist said about this intellectual bullshiter tactic of atheists Luke Muehlhauser, the author of the website ‘commonsenseatheism.com’, which was very popular during New Atheism’s heyday. In his 23rd of February 2009 article “Atheism and the Burden of Proof”, which was accessed on the 8th of August 2016, Muehlhauser states the following: [QUOTE] But most intellectually-inclined atheists I know do not merely “lack” a belief in God - as, say, my dog lacks a belief in God. Atheists like to avoid the burden of proof during debates, so they say they merely “lack” a belief in God. But this is not what their writings usually suggest. No, most intellectual atheists positively believe that God does not exist. In fact, most of them will say - at least to other atheists- that it’s “obvious” there is no God, or that they “know” - as well as we can “know” anything - that God does not exist. Thus, if the atheist wants to defend what he really believes, then he, too, has a burden of proof. He should give reasons for why he thinks that God almost certainly doesn’t exist.(commonsenseatheism.com/?p=597, bold emphasis added) [UNQUOTE] Note how Muehlhauser-who did indeed run a very popular atheist blog with numerous commentators and who interviewed dozens of atheists and theists alike-states that 1) most of the intellectually-inclined atheists that he knows do not merely lack a belief in God, and that 2) atheists will admit to other atheists that they know that there is no God, and also that 3) atheists like to avoid the burden of proof in debates. So here we have an atheist with a solid number of connections in the atheist community, tacitly admitting that lack-of-belief atheism is often just a shell-game meant to help atheists avoid the burden of proof. That bullshit tactic is getting old now time to man up and stop playing coward ....
_Thus, if the atheist wants to defend what he really believes, then he, too, has a burden of proof._ If a person claims that "there is no god", then she has the burden of proof. If a person claims that "there is no god....but allah and mohammed is her messenger", then she has the burden of proof. If a person does not make a claim, they do not have the burden of proof.
Abu: Incidentally, _let's hear what an atheist said about this intellectual bullshiter tactic of atheists_ The author of your quotation is not an atheist. The website from which you took the article describes itself thus: this site is called the Reconquista Initiative because it not only seeks to be part of the cultural and intellectual Reconquista of the West, but also because it seeks to remind Christians and traditionalists in the West that we are indeed in a Reconquista, and so not only must we plan for a long struggle, but we must also strive to continuously maintain the initiative during the cultural and intellectual battles which will soon be upon us. And so, God willing, let us join together and start the cultural and intellectual Reconquista today.
khalidyar I'm not going to lie, he was. He was absolutely unprepared and didn't build a script in his head to answer the carefully selected and meticulously arranged questions that Sabboor asked. However, Sabboor was still completely clueless--moreso than the young lad.
who said that someone got to the moon, there is no proven data that Armestrong was there, go and check and you'll figure out that many sources including american ones falsifying that
Brennuvargr but did you actually flied into the moon. answer no yet however religion it tells you that the moon exist and the one who created it. that means you need science to go to the moon just to prove that the exist where every human been can see him. however as a believer I don't need to do all that simply because God told me that he created the moon
9:17 onward There are zero contradictions between quantum mechanics and general relativity... I know this old but even then his statement was false. He either understands the subject very little or he purposely deceived an ignorant individual m
No the Miracles mentioned in the Quran challenge our understanding of reality. Not the entire Quran just the Miracles. You guys need to catch these guys more what they're trying to imply.
Nothing is laughable here, it was an intersting conversation and the atheist guy was genuine and polite.
swiftspy Wasn't much of a conversation.
Devdraco that's what happens when arrogance and ignorance combine and meet humility and intellect.
Yeah!
Excellent conversation
Infinite universes are untestable and unseen and they always will be... Atheists have faith
This guy is one of the most reasonable Muslims ive ever witnessed
May allah guides you to find the truth brother, have a nice day :)
Paul Nevard - I watched him lose to an evolutionary scientist. He didn’t seem so reasonable then..
Northside Baller - Nope, nice try though
Northside Baller - Nope, nice try though.
Northside Baller - Nobody cares about your PhD. Why the butthurt?
*Most people do not "listen" with the intent to understand, they "listen" with the intent to reply.*
yeah thats because muslims worship a book
@@Xarai 🤡
@@loftilhan4868 lol insult all ya want dsnt make me wrong now run along child continue treating women horribly
@@Xarai You’re still a 🤡
@@Xarai What you said there was stupid.
May Allah protect Suboor! He's an asset to the Ummah
such an ignorant statement. He has a lot of knowledge in science and evolution but he is no where near to being a mufti not even a student of knowledge.
Hamed Kakar how do you know what he is. Don’t judge. Only Allah can judge. Brother Subhoor is doing his part. May Allah accept his effort.
Azgar Tar lol, I'm not judging him I'm just saying he not even near to the level of a scholar. May Allah reward him for his good work.
Hamed Kakar you don't need to be a scholar to talk to everyday atheists as you can see most of them don't even have half his knowledge
Ameen
Wow.. the most informative video u will ever see. Some would spend 3years in university to learn and understand what this gentlemen has explained in the space of half an hour.. this guy Saboor is shockingly intelligent in explaining describing and teaching evolution.. He goes against the mainstream view of Darwinian evolution but has stronger more logical and more reliable alternative to the mainstream Darwinian evolution thought to students all over the world.. this man is really great..
Yawn
Great video. He is brilliant!
@@Devdraco I think it annoys you that some Muslims have greater intellect than you. Aren't you tired of commenting on pro Islamic videos? Get a life pal, you probably don't believe in God so in that case you've only got this limited time on earth and thus by extension a limited time in existence itself. Stop wasting it in the comments section.
@@haid3r88 he is dumb
@@haid3r88 While typing in the comments section. Lol, do you not see true irony in that?
Suboor, you must mean, who you believe is more intelligent than the average fellow. The sad fact is that he isn't. Half an hour of using a search engine will clear up any questions he has regarding real information. Everything else is woo.
Always love to see brother subbor debating. He is genius
By "genius" do you mean a fast-talking bullshitter?
A genius in what, Shameen? Certainly not honest debate!
@@misterright8626then your father aaron ra couldnt answer anything he asked you are a bullshiter but you shit form your mouth just like aaron haha
Subbor was not debating the guy , he was schooling him.
@@misterright8626 what did he say that was BS ? and how did u know that was a dishonest debate ?
Oh man, the non falsifiable nature of evolution that Saboor explained was really interesting. Mashallah, may Allah increase him in knowledge.
Asad Ali Nope.
I can't be bothered watching the whole video , the editing strikes me as excessive, so I'm left wondering how Saboor explains that evolution is unfalsifiable, care to help me out?.
There are a whole series of predictions and tests that evolution has already passed so what is Saboors claim about this?
tdsdave First of all, you don't even know the topic of their discussion. It is not about Evolution. It is about Darwinian evolution and there is a difference. Secondly, you know that the claim is about the unfalsifiable nature of the theory, so asking about the claim won't help as much as asking about the arguments he made would; which, I think, is better explained by his own words and in the form of a debate or speech rather than text form in a comment section or else it would be more beneficial to read a book about the topic.
"I can't be bothered watching the whole video"
You know what? don't even bother asking about something that challenges your core beliefs and world view. It's not that important after all, don't you think?
Omer
You sound like you have a bee in your bonnet, so defensive. So in brief you can't offer an explanation for why evolution is unfalsifiable even though its predictions have been tested and passed. Guess I'll wait for Asad to answer that one.
*"It is not about Evolution. It is about Darwinian evolution and there is a difference."*
Scientifically biological evolution has for almost one hundred years not been simply been Darwinian evolution, today we have what is called the modern synthesis. So what is this distinction between evolution and Darwinian evolution you are insisting exists and how did my question violate that?. People colloquially, at least scientifically use the word evolution to mean biological evolution , so why ,if you really have a good reason, is the need to be so anal ?
Its almost ironic how asking a question leads you to say don't ask question if I'm not interested , what kind of logic is that.
Its actually a much better conversation to have in text . Debates or speech is not how science works what makes you think that is what I'm after, I'm looking for the argument not the way someone presents it.
If you can't articulate yourself it give me a time stamp.
tdsdave.
"You sound like you have a bee in your bonnet, so defensive."
Am I? I don't know what I'm defensive about. And you sounded closed minded by not "bothering" to watch the video. I don't know you. I don't know if you are here to learn or to prove others wrong. I presumed the latter is correct based on what you said.
"you can't offer an explanation for why evolution is unfalsifiable even though its predictions have been tested and past."
So according to you, a theory is falsifiable if it's predictions were accurate. I thought it was the exact opposite of that. Can you clarify by giving me a hypothetical scenario of when Evolution by natural selection would be false? I don''t have to offer an explanation. You have to prove that it is falsifiable. The claim is that you can't, so disprove it.
"So what is this distinction between evolution and Darwinian evolution you are insisting exists and how did my question violate that?"
Evolution or speciation is the process by which species came into existence and such process was known even before Darwin. Today, there are many different theories about the mechanisms by which evolution occurs and the Darwinian theory by natural selection is only one of them. So, the distinction should be made because this is the specific theory under discussion in this video on whether it is falsifiable or not.
And apart from that, please mind your language. English is not my first language so I don't know if what you said is appropriate or suitable for a civilized discussion.
"..leads you to say don't ask question if I'm not interested "
I didn't say that. I suggested that either watching the video or reading a book would be more "beneficial". I didn't know you weren't interested in learning as much as you are in debating.(I was being sarcastic when I said "don't bother asking" to make a point which, I guess, you did not get?!)
"Its actually a much better conversation to have in text . Debates or speech is not how science works.."
I don't think scientists debated on-line either especially not on UA-cam's comments section. And, we are not about to do science so how science works is irrelevant to how people communicate its findings.
"I'm looking for the argument not the way someone presents it."
OK, you aren't that smart. I was not referring to the form of presentation in terms of aesthetic perception but in terms of clearness, ease of understanding and benefits. Those factors do matter and are, indeed, taken into account by scientists so let's put logical fallacies aside.
Please guys let's not laugh at him but try to help him to be guided. How do u want him to try to listen and learn when we are laughing.
ahmad
You are right , but sometimes you can't help but laugh , the difference is we have a good heart & wish the other person well even if we laugh!
Mohyeldin Zouhair Do you truly have a good heart?
The only path this would take you is to have your children being laughed at. Deluding yourself that Quran don't contradict Science is a dark path. The world is changing as fast and to deny any advances we made in Science will see that you or your generations to come will never reach anywhere near the advances others have. That is call competition and while people are giving their best at racing you guys are sitting at a corner laughing at them while ultimately losing every single race.
Decieved society Do you have proof for that claim?
Decieved society That has nothing to do with intellect nor is it evidence in favor of your disgusting religion.
I felt sorry for the atheist, he was completely clueless.
Agha Talal As salaam alaikum I want to ask you something ?
First of all my name is Alee ibn Muhammad and I have been thinking about something I believe you can be good assets to this project is there a way I can contact you ?
Waaliakum Asalaam, Could you be a bit more specific regarding this project ?
@ Abu Well you could give me your email. I don't have twitter and I can't remember the last time I was on facebook, I am not very big on the social media thing. I am active on quora and youtube. But I haven't uploaded any videos.
Mohyeldin Zouhair yes I'm a Muslim alhamdulilah what do you mean scary ?
+Agha Talal
You must remember that just because someone's an atheist doesn't automatically imply they know everything about the origins of life. This is Subboor's area of expertise, and he debates top scientists in Darwinian Evolution and other theories.
It was a really good discussion and I learned a lot from it. Nice to see Subboor refrain from all the grandstanding he often does. When he's cordial I feel we can all learn more from him.
Peace.
Craig
Man what a video, Our brother Saboor mashallah
Instead of making fun of Atheist, we should help them to grasp the truth so Alla swt is pleased with us all.
Ihtef Keles who is making fun. Did u even see the vid?
Ihtef Keles I agree good advice
One problem though
You may intellectually believe in a god as explained by books.
But how can you convince your body to believe in that intellectual god more than he believes in you?
B Sto how does a body believe ?
yeh islam is pure truth. the god who created the billions of galaxies is the same god who tells you how to fondle your wife while she's menstruating and tells you to step into the bathroom with your left foot first. it's pure objective logic
I love bro Suboor For the sake of Allah,i have learnt so much about how to refute atheism with him..May Allah reward u bro..Ameen
BURHAN DAWAH MAN Try.
@brian tracy You don't have a purpose in your life?
You can’t refute shit.
I learnt so much physics in just the first 8 minutes lol
Amet Kahin No, you didn't.
@@سراقة-ل5ن No, he didn't, because not only does physics not work by auditory transference alone, it would be impossible to confirm this data without greater context. In THEORY, he *COULD* learn more--but to state that he learned as a matter of fact is incorrect.
@@Devdraco he still could have general knowledge in physics which also counts as learning
@@ELD7MY94 *Possessing* an arbitrary amount of knowledge and then claiming you somehow learned *more* from the foolishness displayed in the video by auditory transference alone is, in itself, foolish.
Individuals like Subboor are one of reasons I continue to believe in a Creator. May Allah bless him and those like him!
Rasheed Rosenje Piscatoris Severiorum The Holy Qur’an clearly stresses the importance of religious freedom. There is no compulsion in the matters of religion. Faith is an individual concern and commitment, between you and the One God. “There should be no compulsion in religion. Surely, the right way has become distinct from error.” (Holy Qur’an, Chapter 2, Verse 257) It must therefore be something which you desire, not what is forced upon you. If you force a faith upon someone, then it becomes hollow and without true conviction. Islam stresses on a person finding the truth through their own path. If a faith is true, then it will appeal to the heart.This is why the verse states: ‘Surely, the right way has become distinct from error’. Islam stresses that we must not force or compel another to believe.Elsewhere, in Chapter 10, Verse 100 of the Qur’an, we read: “And if your Lord had enforced His will, surely, all who are on the earth would have believed together. Will you, then, force men to become believers?” This verse shows that religious freedom is part of Allah’s design. Allah hasn’t forced anyone, so who are we to do so? By forcing your faith upon someone, is really having no faith at all. This is not the idea behind Allah creating this physical world. As the verse states, it could have been easy for Allah to force His Will, but Allah gave us free will instead; gave us choices. We must choose the right path or be answerable for the consequences. In fact there is an entire chapter of the Qur’an, Sura Al-Kafirun (109), which clearly explains how with should conduct ourselves with n Non-Believers: “In the name of Allah, the Most Gracious, ever Merciful, Say, O ye disbelievers, I worship not as you worship, Nor do you worship as I worship Nor do I worship those that you worship Nor do you worship Him Whom I worship, For you your religion and for me my religion A clear statement of religious tolerance in Islam. .Its a tragic irony that much of the Islamic world has lost sight of Islam’s true and essential teachings concerning religious freedom. I would like to give examples from Islamic history, Quranic verses and Prophetic sayings with regards to religious tolerance The cousin of the Prophet Mohamed and leader of the Muslims after the Prophet, Imam Ali states “Know that people are of two types: they are either your brothers in religion or your equals in creation.” Meaning that all people, no matter what religion, race or class they come from, are supposed to be treated equally, because either people are your Muslim brethren, or your equals in humanity who have the same rights as you and cannot be discriminated or disrespected for their beliefs. In fact, to disrespect another religion is explicitly condemned in the Qur'an Do not abuse those whom they worship besides Allah” (6:109). If a person claims to be Muslim, he is not allowed to insult or disrespect another religion. This is forbidden according to the Quran.Even to engage in arguments with Non-Muslims in a disrespectful manner is prohibited, as the Quran states: “And argue not with the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), unless it be in (a way) that is better (with good words and in good manner), except with such of them as do wrong, and say (to them): “We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you; our God and your God is One, and to Him we have submitted”(29:46)[1]. If to talk to a person of another faith in a rude way is impermissible, then to kill them in the name of religion is just despicable and completely wrong! It is narrated that Imam Ali was once walking in the streets, and he passed by a Christian beggar. His question was, “Who is this?” When they told him that he is an old Christian man who cannot work and is asking people for help, the Imam replied and said, ““you [the Muslim community] used him [in his youth] and when he became old, you left him.” Then the Imam assigned a salary for him from the treasury, the same way he did with Muslims . This portrays that Islamically, Muslims and non-Muslims are supposed to be treated in an equal manner under an Islamic government, without anyone being discriminated. I would like to end with a saying from the Prophet Muhammad: “Beware! Whoever is cruel and hard on a Non-Muslim minority, or curtails their rights, or burdens them with more than they can bear, or takes anything from them against their free will; I (Prophet Muhammad) will complain against the person on the Day of Judgment.”(Abu Dawud).
The existence of people like Subboor is one of the most crippling pieces of evidence against Intelligent Design if I ever saw one.
Panthera spelaea You never asked me WHY I said people like Subboor continue to allow me to believe in a Creator. It isn't because of his Dawah style. It's due do to his intellect. Secondly no one is forcing anyone from what I have seen to join Islam. I'm not sure where you are seeing compulsion in this discussion. Can you please explain?
Rasheed Rosenje
There's a small joke that the existence of creationists is evidence against creationism, because God wouldn't design something so stupid.
That said, I honestly don't think most creationists are actually stupid (many of the people who promote the stuff quite clearly aren't, but for the wrong reasons), most are sound and decent people, some may not question their beliefs, and/or don't know any better etc. It's just that what is taught by most forms of creationism is insanely inaccurate.
His intellect? To be frank, I must applaud him for his skills in public speaking and articulation, but it only goes that far, the way I see it. He puts on a convincing display, pull outs names and quotes on the wing whose accuracy we have to give the benefit-of-the-doubt to, even when they're false, and will often out-shout his opponents in an attempt to dominate the conversation and make himself look/feel good. You may or may not be aware of the recent video of him mocking an opponent who walked away, and made chicken noises to taunt him. Not exactly what a typical grown man in his 20s/30s would be doing in an intellectual conversation.
Again, I'm sure he's been trained to entertain a crowd, which is very useful in promoting his dogma, but that doesn't change reality.
I find his actual position that he attempts to articulate, quite unintelligible, even under all the vocabulary. For example his arguments on evolution, both seen at SC and on his personal channel, are not exactly clear, and at times incoherent.
He often states that multiple models might explain the same data, in an attempt to equate evolution with creationism, as if they're on a level playing field, but completely disregards parsimony and Occam's razor in choosing the most probable model (e.g. hoofprints in the dirt probably signify a horse/ass/zebra, but _could_ be explained by the presence of a centaur, unicorn or Pegasus. Which would you find most probable?).
For example, we know that natural and sexual selection (the legendary "Darwinian mechanisms") and genetic drift are inevitable in a biological population with environmental pressures, and have more than shown themselves to be able to explain what we observe in said populations (behaviors, phenotypes), so if we find a new species, we can say that given the available evidence, it most likely evolved via a means similar to that, since those are the only ones that could adequately explain what we observe. Lamarckism and orthogenesis (both touted by Subboor), for example don't have the evidentiary basis that the aforementioned have, which is why they've long been abandoned.
And there's the rest of his claims, that somehow atheism and the modern synthesis are religions despite how easily refuted that statement is, morality is somehow contrary to human survival and reproduction, evolutionary biologists are somehow trying to conspire against god (most don't care about him) by making their theory, his whole kerfuffle on homology and homoplasy, etc.
Sorry for writing so much (there's probably more I'd like to say), but yeah..
Rasheed Rosenje True or false: Muslims have both threatened and have killed people for apostasy.
This brother Subboor is an amazing specimen
Umer Raja As a specimen, yes. His ignorance--willful or not? Hmm!
A specimen of a gullible idiot, you mean.
The Somali uncle is a Legend in the back
May Allah bless him always
The atheist has completely threw logic out the window. He took nothing from that conversation. Sheep.
*thrown, dumbass.
Mister Right You must be fun and social at parties. Don't be so upset.
Oh, but I am: I'm hip, I'm slick, and all the women want my ...
phone number.
That's a colon, not a semicolon, idiot, unless you were attempting to make some lame joke about colons.
Fuck off, you incredible moron.
Mr. Ahmad, I respect your deep level of knowledge with regard to science and the philosophy of science and your skepticism, coming from an agnostic that believes in evolution. This was a very good video and I was pleased to learn about some of those biologists with alternative theories you named. Keep up the good work!
I would suggest to read on the philosophy of science. Very interesting discussions on that topic are out there. And some not even close to what so-called science-guys regurgitate.
Atheists pride themselves for being critical of all religions and claim to live a way of life that is not ‘religious’ in any sense. However, a lot of the neo-militant atheim resembles religion in many ways. Here are a few:
Object of worship (glorification and sanctification) - Universe
Dogma - Science
Mosque/Church - Public school the church of atheism
‘Prophets’ - Bertrand Russell, Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens..
‘Holy’ scriptures - The God Delusion (Gospel of Dawkins), God Is Not Great (Gospel of St.Hitchens), Universe From Nothing (Gospel of Krauss) and many more..
Shaykhs/Scholars/Priests - Scientists/Greek Philosophers/Enlightenment thinkers
Annual Pilgrimage - World Atheist Convention
Law and Jurisprudence - Secular liberalism/Marxism/Communism/Democracy (many madhabs)
Denominations - Communists/Capitalists/Feminists
Articles of faith - scientific rationalism/freedom of expression/humanism/religion is man-made
Rituals - mocking/cursing religious beliefs and concepts
Arguments for Atheism - mocking/cursing religious beliefs and concepts
Testimony of belief - ‘Science answers all truths’/’religion is nonsense’
Abu Muhamed Alee Al Ansari You're trying awfully hard at false equivocation.
Devdraco everything I list why don't you show all of them are wrong rather than crying crocodile tears....
Abu Muhamed Alee Al Ansari Sure, ask me seriously and apologise for your childish behavior and I'll treat you like an adult.
Devdraco lol haha an other crocodile tears from egoistic sperm who can't refute a so called kid.....
Deal with the information !!!
Abu Muhamed Alee Al Ansari I can't tell if you're trying to type out a legible English comment, but I don't see any apologies strewn there. No skin off of my nose.
subboor is very intelligent, masha allah
I love brother Subhoor I can listen to this guy for hours and not get bored his knowledge is vast may Allah grant him Jannah
"Atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning..."
C.S. Lewis
False comparison, that two statements share the same characteristic doesn't mean it has the conclution you put it. Atheism doesn't say universe has no meaning . Atheism is a stand about gods. People could think that universe has no meaning because of the conciousness it has. That mean brain interpret the exterior world as a subjetive perception.
Science can always lead to new observations and therefore science doesn't lead to truth...lol
We all have to bear in mind the purpose of these discussions. First and foremost it is to learn. Making fun of others or laughing at them would give the wrong impression. As for us muslims, at the end of the day, our purpose is to please Allah hoping that maybe you will be the reason a person is guided to the right path. Another point i would like to mention the involvement of the brother who was standing on the fence. In my humble opinion he should have stayed quiet, because Suboor was great at what he was doing.
I am Shi'i and I like the way brother Subboor conveys the message of Islam and I appreciate his mannerism and his logical mode of argumentation.
May Allah guide you and your family, and me and my family, my brother.
Don't put yourself in a group. Just call yourself Muslim.
Msulims united. Alhamdulillah.
Come to Islam and leave shirk and khurafat of shiaism
When Brother Saboor is around only 1 word applies #rekt
Lol
Yeah, he wrecks himself all right, like every other religious know-it-all and scientific know-nothing!
Mister Right How so?
Mister Right he owned that sorry "scientific" smart arse and then some.
No he didn't, but people so awash in religious beliefs hear only what they want to hear.
Abdul Hameed was loving every minute of it
Why is he standing up there?! 😂😂😂
“Science is the best representation of truth, can you empirically prove that statement?” A couple things wrong with subboors critique of this statement:
The dude never said science is the ONLY representation of truth so this trap doesn’t work. He could verify it from a rationalist viewpoint.
We can ask subboor what the best way to find truth is, and if subboor says reason/rationalism, then we can ask him to prove that statement, in which subboor would have to use rationalism to prove it, and his argument becomes circular. It’s called the problem of criterion.
Pls go to Speaker's Corner and to school these fools.
"He could verify it from a rationalist viewpoint" there's an answer for you in your statement
Respect to the guy in the sunglasses at least he stood infront of a very knowledgeable brother instead of running Away
I laughed so hard when he said " truth can be subjective aswell " , suboor: " then why we having this conversation " That is funniest shit from atheist if u know what that means.
France S Wtf 🤣🤔
Everything we know is based off of our senses, our perception. Thus, everything we know is subjective.
plum Poor sod, aren't you?
The reality of existence is an axiom.If u don't agree that existence of material objects in this reality is an objective truth than u might aswell believe that it is possible that your father is actually a pink elephant with magical powers in disguise? if u don't believe that to be a possibility, which I presume, than ur not being consistent with your proposition.
plum Are you asking what truth is or are you asking what objectivity is?
This is the only atheist who acknowledged his ignorance on the issues. May Allah guide him.
Brilliant video hahahahaha well done Naseem!
Well done to Bro Subboor,May Allah SWT reward him.i cant see any new one on your channel did you record any this week ?
DawahMedia no bro - well I filmed a shahadah but if you want it I can give it to you - it's the one muhammad tawheed did with the brother called "live". Shot from single angle - I haven't uploaded it!
subboor ahmad is one of the people who can make general people aware of science more than the classroom trainings. this guy needs to be saved for humanity . m glad we have such people on this earth to break the stereotypes . . .
"If you don't believe in darwinian evolution, you don't believe in dogs" 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 i almost died laughing
he is honest, man i hope he doesnt give up and read the books with open heart. he was lucky to have met suboor. this was such a good video.
May Allah subhanahu wata'ala bless our brother Subbuoor and Abdul Hamid, and increase them in knowledge and keep them humble.
May Allah preserve brother suboor and make others like him and beyond with insight
LIVERZ-BBK ameeeeen yarab 🤲🏼🤲🏼
love you brother Subboor Ahmad. I hope to reach your level some day
You aspire to get dumber, Idriss?
In sha Allah we all will.
god bless you brother ..keep on
I really love bro saboor for Allaah sake.... May Allaah continue to bless you bro Ameen
4:30 Suboor could have had a better response to this. And I think Suboors argument is wrong since he is bringing the discussion back to natural phenomena.
The atheist implies that miracles are irrational.
The response is as follows:
Miracles are by definition phenomena which are contrary to the laws of nature.
The argument depends on whether there is a God or not. If there is a God i.e. an entity that transcends and can override natural laws then miracles are clearly possible.
So the argument is not whether miracles are possible or not, but whether there is an entity that transcends physical laws.
7:35 you can always have a new observation that challenges your previous concluson
more videos brother :) jazaka allah khayr ..macha allah....i know more things now
Husky light path You know arguably less. You are watching a video filled with bias and misinformation. Build your own knowledge. I don't care who or what you are--to make up your own mind off of another's is disingenuous and dangerous.
This atheist guy is honest and admits when he contradicts himself. Most of the atheists at that park are so stubborn to accept that.
Atheism: 0=1
Christianity: 1+1+1=1
Islam: 1=1
The Koran was plagiarized. The authors of it copied many parts damn near word for word from the Old Testament and the Bible.
Suraj Opinion is Never Better wow wow wow. Hold you horses bud. You’ve made some big claims now substantiate them
This makes no sense
I have researched all 3 Abrahamic Religions and found Islam to be the True Religion of God.
As for Judaism it is all about the Chosen People and is almost racist as you cannot be a Jew unless you are descended from one of the Twelve Children of Israel. Judaism fails to satisfy the essential criteria of a religion by requiring external obedience to moral laws, having a secular focus, and lacking a concern for immortality. Furthermore Judaism also lacks a belief in an afterlife which is actually necessary for human ethical behavior in this life.
And as for Christianity it is an almost idolatrous religion as they lack the principle of the One, True God with no partners. Christians had to follow One God, but they have made God multiple, not singular. And not to mention many of the internal consistencies and errors contained within the Bible. Many Christians try to combat this problem by selectively interpreting each verse according to the context of the verse, but critics argue that the selective invocation of portions of the Old Testament is hypocritical, particularly when those portions endorse hostility towards women and homosexuals, when other portions are considered obsolete. There are also hundreds of versions of the Bible, whereas only one version of the Quran. This is the reason why I chose to reject Christianity.
And the reason why I chose Islam is because in the Old Testament it is mentioned: "God said to Moses, on whom be peace:
“I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him.” (The Holy Bible, New International Version, Deuteronomy chapter 18, verse 18).
And also it says in John Chapter 16 Verses 12-13 Jesus says:
"I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come."
The Bible says this Prophet of God will be a descendant of Ishmael through Kedar who was Abraham’s grandson, and the second son of Ishmael (Genesis 25:13). He also founded a city that is mentioned quite a few times in scripture called Selah. Hence this Prophet can be nobody but Prophet Muhammad SAW.
So both Moses and Jesus (peace be upon them both) have testified to the coming of Prophet Muhammad SAW.
The prophet described in the above verse must have the following three characteristics:
1. He will be like Moses (Muhammad was exactly like Moses in that he was a Warrior, a Husband, Messenger of God, Leader of the Community and many other similarities)
2. He will come from the brothers of the Israelites, i.e. the Ishmaelites(Muhammad SAW was an Arab).
3. God will put His words in the mouth of that prophet and he will declare what God commanded him.
Brother Subboor is absolutely fantastic..
Ayub Khan If by fantastic you mean boring
Mashallah... Br Saboor taught him alot. May Allah guide this atheist with truth. Good work Br Saboor.
This atheist being bullied for his idiocy and yet he didn't realized it. I guess this is what idiocy truly means thanks to atheism.
That was deep and well explained! It's quite clear that the tall white guy is following something not out of logic or truth, but out of convenience. I wish him peace and guidance.
Atheists they just follow blindly. Unbelievable.
bink bee And which one was that lmao
No different to religious people, so please stop the hypocrisy. As Muslims, we are asked to submit ourselves wholly and to believe everything we are told and how dare we question, not test, question anything Islam says. After some time we become blind followers as it is just easier to follow then question or lead.
gblueslover2 when you die and go to hell then say this
Piss off with your empty threats, jama. It's what children say when they can't think of anything else.
@gblueslover2 where did you get hold of that butchered version of history? Would be really nice for you to explain through historical research.. or did you just come with emotions mixed with bullshit. Nobody ever claimed he intimated her parents and that her hair fell out. There's literally no testimony for that by either Muslims or non Muslims. Your forefathers probably impregnated females just as young from the same time period. I don't get what your weak point is.
Saboor is just too intelligent for this guy and wins the argument against any atheists...
How come nobody is talking about the brother standing on the railing? 🤷🏽♂️
He is acting foolish. Try to ignore him.
Hope he's wearing something underneath...
I just love the moments in which the interlocutors of Brother Shuboor, remain open-mouthed and in which their only answer is: "what !!!!!!!!".
Fantastic, they are unforgettable moments.
Can't be believe what he said at the end... " I still don't believe anything he said" but at the same time he is believing in Atheist Darwin Evolution without Proper Evidence.
Like Allahs Revealed in the Quran along the lines of... " You can Show them the Truth but they will still not Believe"
you dont have to believe in truth
smokingitzy I can hear anything and everything and every angle tackling a certain subject that is complete bullshit but at the end of the spiel I'm still going to think it's bullshit. Fancy words and tiptoeing around logic does not impress nor change the flawed, inherently disgusting, pathetically defended "religion" that is Islam.
smokingitzy indeed
@@Emsyaz Nice claim! Got proof?
@@Devdraco what kind of proof do you expect?
May Allah swt bless this beautiful brother Suboor
5:24 laws of nature are based on observation".. he then went on to say a horse with wings falls outside that category. A cell evolving into a human being with cognitive abilities and DNA has ever been observed? ..
So his own belief in evolution goes against the "laws of nature" based on his criteria of observation 👀
Double standard..
Good observation.. :)
Mikel eclok wut??? It has been proven countless of time
mobile.nytimes.com/2006/01/03/science/from-bacteria-to-us-what-went-right-when-humans-started-to-evolve.html
Just because your ignorant of something doesn't make you right
mloik azerty this is called having blind faith in the words of scientists...
Just Because someone wrote an article on internet is that somehow suppose to be make it true ? I want you to actually prove this just so story by providing us bacterialike ancestors that we can observe and test ourselves rather than having faith in the words of scientists !!!
Abu Muhamed Alee Al Ansari Just because someone wrote it in a book it's true? Perhaps you should consider criticising the Quran.
Except that evolution has been observed. Changes over time have been observed and speciation has been observed.
The theory that humans evolved overtime is an inferred conclusion based on the demonstration of the proof of concept that change within gene frequency does occur.
So whilst the evolution of humans from a single cell to a multi cellular organism has not been directly observed. the mechanism by which it would be possible has not to mention the fossil record and the observation of chromosome 2 which strongly suggests that humans and chimpanzees are related, that is what is meant by observational science.
Observation does not necessarily mean that someone observed each events that took place, but that they have observed evidence that suggests the conclusion. There doesn't need to be an eye witness for the police to determine that there was a murder, but they can observe the evidence that suggests there had been.
But regardless evolution isn't even a necessity of atheism.
Evolution being true or not isn't a problem for Atheist, the only reason it enters the debate is because it is a problem for people who have a literal translation of the Bible or Quran.
Even if evolution was proven to be absolutely false tomorrow that would not permit you to conclude that a God exists, proving one claim false does not prove another claim to be true.
Whilst evolution gives a naturalistic understanding of the diversity of life on this planet, if no such understanding existed the only thing that we could conclude based on the information available is that we don't know.
To understand why the horse with wings is treated differently to evolution is to have an understanding of what the null hypothesis is, and to have an understanding of the Black Swan fallacy.
When saboor says "I'm gonna make a claim", get ready to jump in the whole he made in front of you.
subboor master of digging holes lol
yaz dragon If by digging holes you mean slapping a shovel on a rock and calling it soil.
@@Devdraco you feeling sorry for that atheist now...
@@commandar88 I feel sorry for the gentleman in the blue shirt.
Devdraco why? Cuz he doesn’t believe in your scientific dogmatism
It's quite easy to pretend that you've won an argument when you are shouting at some random guy with little knowledge on the topic, probably no experience in debates, on the street. When the muslim guy would try to debate someone who actually knows what he's talking about like Hittchens, Dawkins or Harris, it would be easy to see how wrong his arguments are.
Subboor should be my uncle, he has my kind of world view
Wow i can't believe that Chandler from Mr. Beast actually have an discussions with Saboor.!! 😳
Is like you watching mike Tyson fighting with 5 years boy. Completely demolished him
Islam is Anti gays If Mike Tyson literally had no brain and were punching a wall the whole time, yes!
Yes you're right.
THEREFORE ISLAM IS TRUE?
Is that what we're been told here?
My guy! Smashed it.
Suboors points went waaaaaay over this guys head 🤣
He didn't have any points, they were junk
@@alexojideagu - don't be so butthurt because you athiests don't have any answers. It's nobodies fault except your own.
love brrother suboor hes damn.good MASHA ALLAH. May Allah keep him safe and healthy
Smile Smile As good as a pig knows how to roll in mud.
Devdraco look whos talking. I dont eat pig so i dont act like one nor i m one. It is u ppl who eat that pig so according to psychological a person whatever they eat will mostly act like one. So stop being brain ape learn before u speak ape.
Smile Smile Poor thing.
Yes and no. One would read from your poorly thought-out comment that you are implying someone eats ape. If your intention was to try to deflect the characteristics of a pig to describe the pig I mentioned, then you should not have tried to call me an ape after the entirety of your comment was that exactly. It's important to learn sentence structure and context if you intend to try to be witty and label someone, sort of like I did.
So... Perhaps learn to write English?
Smile Smile No-one needs to tell me I'm an ape? I mean... I guess...? But you did it anyway, didn't you? I don't know if you're still trying to be witty or you're actually just dumb.
Did I claim that my ancestor came from apes?
Even if I were an ape, I must be the most intelligent in the world because I appear to be leagues smarter than you are. Why do you need to repeat yourself? I didn't say that you did, but you can repeat yourself all you like because it's not going to make you look better than you'd made yourself out to be--boorish and foolish.
How am I going to tell you what you do or don't think? That's called ignorance.
Yes, I am an atheist.
Do you even know why you're here anymore? At this point is it just a desperate attempt to appear cool and clever when I've made you look like a clown? Lol
Devdraco ape u talk to much. U called me a pig brain. N now u r crying about me calling u an ape. Go cry to ur mom about it cuz no one gives a damn hoot here. Secondly did u just said u r smarter? in what way? i guess in lying lol. Tell me what is ur belief? arent you an atheist? go on lie to me and every one here. Did i claim this did i claim that blah blah blah lol bullshit. If u didnt claim nothing then shut the fuck up and go cry to ur momy. Cuz i dont speak with idiots who doesnt have any claims and yet trying to argue on no claims lol
What was my man doing on the fence lol completely irrelevant just made me chuckle, he dropped some knowledge from a above and beyond
Wow great job brother Subboor!!!
1:04 Why's he up there 🤣
This is what you call Intellectual bullying. #StopBullying.
jazzak allah kheer brother subboor .
If this was a basketball game it would be 1000 - 0.
another atheist bites the dust
jaber ..atheists can only come up with stupid things like god of the gaps. funny thing is they believe in it but not the religious people
The face that suboor made when that guy said 'in a number of ways' is the visual representation of 'I've got you red handed'.
Any form of evolution for debate is welcomed - whether by natural selection, mutation, or combination of several aspects. As long as they can accept macro-evolution and not assume all animals or humans were just made by a so called god directly.
strictly speaking islam only has a problem with humans sharing a common ancestor with all other living beings.They believe God made a special distinction for human beings in that they were created in the form we see today
"if we lived under another system you think killing small children would be O.kay?" European history has confirmed that affirmatively. You may want to adjust that part of the argument.
what is your point exactly ?
@@devalto3829 - Which part of my basic statement was unclear?
Alhamdulillah brother Suboor is outstanding. Allahu Akbar
He must be a farmer then, outstanding in his field.
Mister Right funny.. not!
I’m so glad someone told the hero to come off the gate thought he might fall couldn’t focus on the conversation
Please guys be nice in the comment section
Soma noma lol haha it's war zone in the comments section
Keep going u r really educated person
Masha Allah brother
that atheist got schooled big time
BreakFix If by schooled you mean made dumber
Devdraco
No, I mean schooled
BreakFix Then you're simply wrong
Brother Suboor nailed this conversation
I believe that open mind ness come at different level. Atheist believe that they are open minded because they only believe in what is tangible. Yet when the limit of mind is stretched and they are confronted with deeper logic, although they see the logic, yet it is difficult for them to change their perception or mind set. In my opinion, that is not open minded. Being open minded means you should go wherever logic takes you.
Open minded isn't gullibility. And it certainly not open minded when you think only one book is the truth. That is closed minded.
chris chow the definition of open mindedness is to follow logic where it takes you. But just claiming that “only one book is the whole truth”. Has absolutely no meaning unless discussed logically and follow the trail. If you can’t follow the discussion in the clip is another concern. So you conclusion is meaningless.
@@Just_logic what if we tell you that we don't believe in a book that say the sun sets into a pool of murky water? Does your open mindedness include the ability to judge what you read or you need to accept it even if it contains nonsense? That is what I am trying to say. If you treat the Quran is from god no matter what it said than you are not being open minded. That is call closed minded.
chris chow
The discussion that is taking place is a philosophical one. Different beliefs is going back in forth. The atheist guy was presenting his belief system and was being answered by the guy that was a Muslim. He wasn’t referring to Quran. He was just claiming that atheism has holes in it due to the reasons he gave which seemed pretty easy to follow. Just because you can’t follow the logic it does not mean it is not logical. The question to you is what is the reference of not making sense to you? Yourself?? Really?
@@Just_logic let me post this question back to you. Do you think you are open minded about the Quran or closed minded?
The guy in the sunglasses was way out of his depth. He was blinded by fast talking and detracting. All he had to say was, 'so OK, you state the Prophet flew up to heaven on a winged white horse is scientifically provable to be true, yet his grave site is in Medinah KSA, can you explain that to me?'... And then listen as the Muslim fella go off on another tangent. I subscribe to no religion - they are as crazy as each other, that said. I'm really pleased that Muslims now are taking the time to engage with people. Whether they disagree or not! We may finally live in relative harmony. 👍 💪😊👍👁
In his famous essay “On Bullshit”, philosopher Harry G. Frankfurt defined the so-called ‘bullshitter’ as a person whose main aim is not to communicate truth, nor even to consciously lie, but rather to make statements that further the bullshitter’s own ends and suit his agenda irrespective of the truth or falsity of those statements...
The tactic of new atheists
atheism, when defined as a lack-of-belief, all too often is little more than a debate tactic used by atheists to deny that they positively believe anything about the God question, thereby allowing atheists to appear intellectually legitimate when they avoid the burden of proof for their position however the atheist’s embrace of lack-of-belief atheism is often not a reflection of what the atheist truly believes, but rather, it is just a disingenuous move to help the atheist achieve a rhetorical advantage in his intellectual fight with the theist. And it is precisely such evidence, when combined with further points, which provides us with the grounds to reasonably believe that when it comes to lack-of-belief atheism, many atheists are, quite simply, intellectual bullshitters.
Abu Muhamed Alee Al Ansari So much effort to prove absolutely nothing lol
Devdraco don't take my words for let's hear what an atheist said about this intellectual bullshiter tactic of atheists
Luke Muehlhauser, the author of the website ‘commonsenseatheism.com’, which was very popular during New Atheism’s heyday. In his 23rd of February 2009 article “Atheism and the Burden of Proof”, which was accessed on the 8th of August 2016, Muehlhauser states the following:
[QUOTE] But most intellectually-inclined atheists I know do not merely “lack” a belief in God - as, say, my dog lacks a belief in God. Atheists like to avoid the burden of proof during debates, so they say they merely “lack” a belief in God. But this is not what their writings usually suggest. No, most intellectual atheists positively believe that God does not exist. In fact, most of them will say - at least to other atheists- that it’s “obvious” there is no God, or that they “know” - as well as we can “know” anything - that God does not exist. Thus, if the atheist wants to defend what he really believes, then he, too, has a burden of proof. He should give reasons for why he thinks that God almost certainly doesn’t exist.(commonsenseatheism.com/?p=597, bold emphasis added) [UNQUOTE]
Note how Muehlhauser-who did indeed run a very popular atheist blog with numerous commentators and who interviewed dozens of atheists and theists alike-states that 1) most of the intellectually-inclined atheists that he knows do not merely lack a belief in God, and that 2) atheists will admit to other atheists that they know that there is no God, and also that 3) atheists like to avoid the burden of proof in debates. So here we have an atheist with a solid number of connections in the atheist community, tacitly admitting that lack-of-belief atheism is often just a shell-game meant to help atheists avoid the burden of proof.
That bullshit tactic is getting old now time to man up and stop playing coward ....
Abu Muhamed Alee Al Ansari Literally not taking your words for it, because you won't take mine. ;)
_Thus, if the atheist wants to defend what he really believes, then he, too, has a burden of proof._
If a person claims that "there is no god", then she has the burden of proof.
If a person claims that "there is no god....but allah and mohammed is her messenger", then she has the burden of proof.
If a person does not make a claim, they do not have the burden of proof.
Abu: Incidentally,
_let's hear what an atheist said about this intellectual bullshiter tactic of atheists_
The author of your quotation is not an atheist.
The website from which you took the article describes itself thus:
this site is called the Reconquista Initiative because it not only seeks to be part of the cultural and intellectual Reconquista of the West, but also because it seeks to remind Christians and traditionalists in the West that we are indeed in a Reconquista, and so not only must we plan for a long struggle, but we must also strive to continuously maintain the initiative during the cultural and intellectual battles which will soon be upon us. And so, God willing, let us join together and start the cultural and intellectual Reconquista today.
MA. Suboor bhai is very learned. May Allah protect him and bless him to spread The Truth. Ameen
The man standing on the fence is impolite . Really bad attitude.
How many Britishers have you met before..
Very interesting and informative video.
haha ha ha .. the atheist was totally clue less ..
khalidyar I'm not going to lie, he was. He was absolutely unprepared and didn't build a script in his head to answer the carefully selected and meticulously arranged questions that Sabboor asked. However, Sabboor was still completely clueless--moreso than the young lad.
@@Devdraco Ohhh let me see your face there at speakers corner 😂 Prove yourself
@@Trese1829 What?
Subhan Allah i could listen to Br Subboor all day
Science flies people to the moon; religion flies people into buildings.
who said that someone got to the moon, there is no proven data that Armestrong was there, go and check and you'll figure out that many sources including american ones falsifying that
Brennuvargr science flies people to the moon and science also proves fuel can't melt steel beams you're a pseudo science follower
Also, religions can't be *all* right, but they *can* be all wrong!
Brennuvargr but did you actually flied into the moon.
answer no yet
however religion it tells you that the moon exist and the one who created it.
that means you need science to go to the moon just to prove that the exist where every human been can see him.
however as a believer I don't need to do all that simply because God told me that he created the moon
اللهم اجز صبور خير الجزاء فى الدنيا والآخرة 🤍🤍🤍🤍🙌🏻🙌🏻
He did the atheist dirty😂(no disrespect to the atheist)
How do you figure?
I love his humbleness
i really don't care about living or something in return when i help someone out, we still have a long way in understanding everything
9:17 onward There are zero contradictions between quantum mechanics and general relativity...
I know this old but even then his statement was false. He either understands the subject very little or he purposely deceived an ignorant individual m
i pray him to accept islam. may Allah guide us
You will first have to prove that Islam is true and that the Quran is not a fiction
Brother Subboor is the best alhumdulillah and refuted all this guys theories.
No the Miracles mentioned in the Quran challenge our understanding of reality. Not the entire Quran just the Miracles. You guys need to catch these guys more what they're trying to imply.
4:10. But Quran believes that the world was created in six days.
Some surahs: 7:54, 10:3, 11:7, 57:4, 25:59.
The time of the day is 50000 days according to Quran
@@riderliferoadtogo1969 I guess as long as nothing has meaning in the Quran, it's possible to reorganize its claims in order to fit the puzzle.