I did not see the motor setup you did there would have like some information on that. Maybe that a separate video. Also no link for the first firmware update? I have said this before and hope you take your time. I would love for you to go through a whole set of motor standard testing and discussions of these standards and your views on them. That would be superb and right up your alley. I appreciate it would take time to do but it makes sense given the growing importance of Motor development in the new EV world.
Thanks for mentioning the missing links, I have now added them for the initial firmware upgrade and the motor test video. The motor is a 0.25 kW 3 phase 240V delta connected. I power it from a single to three phase inverter. The capacitor bank and coil between the motor and inverter are a low pass filter arrangement, but I took it out of circuit for these tests. I remember you asking about motor testing standards, I just haven't managed to record anything as of yet. I am also wary that they are copyright material and need to make sure I don't cross any boundaries.
@@three-phase562 on the standards let me see what I can do. We can use published material that is open source to look at different types of testing there is a great deal of overlap with many of the standards that way you don’t breach copyright.
I do really get annoyed that many companies that do firmware release don’t provide enough information. It’s an opportunity to address software issues and add new test sequences and test types as standards develop. Great idea and gives longevity to a piece of expensive test equipment. I have a Gossen Mettrawatt Secutest Pro an excellent equipment safety tester with 2-firmware upgrades in the past but very little information on the upgrades. Poor practice in my view and it’s not just an issue affecting Megger. What you really need is direct communication access to Megger engineers to talk these issues through the filter correction is an obvious one they could have addressed through the software unless it does require them to offer a cheap made external filter.
I think some companies are just a little insular regarding the design of their instruments. I know in the past when I have discussed issues with another company, they said that they direct their efforts towards the problems with the most reports. So If I am the only one who reports the inverter issue to Megger, it is likely they won't address it, or will take much longer too. It will be a bigger issue to them if it is a hardware resolution. Thanks for watching and commenting.
When compiling a firmware or software "changelog" there is the issue of intended audience. A lot of end users really don't care about the what, they just want the latest whatever. At the other end of the spectrum are the technical users who want to be treated like adults and make their own decisions about their own tools. I inhabit a dreamworld where firmware and software components are as well documented as their hardware equivalents. In this world there are different levels of documentation for different audiences - from marketing glossy through datasheet to application notes and engineering memos. This already exists in part. But it can be hard to make the business case for comprehensive coverage.
I would imagine that there is internal documentation covering the firmware changes within Megger, after all they are an ISO 9001 registered company. I guess it is just what they want to put out in the public domain. I appreciate what you are saying about the intended audience, but surely the user audience for the MTR105 is fairly restrictive and would benefit from some sort of rudimentary upgrade information. Thanks for watching and commenting.
As you know, VFDs are hard to measure due to the PWM switching frequency. Are you aware of any DMMs that can measure a VFD output with no load or filters on them? I don't think that is something that firmware would be able to address, it's more of a physical limitation and not sure what works for one VFD would work on another. Due to the different switching frequencies. But, I haven't had to mess with many VFD voltage measurements. I just know they are hard to get measurements from.
Its a very good question. There are a number of meters available with either an LPF or VFD setting that can carry out the measurement. I thought that the Megger with a 0 to 400 Hz voltage range would apply that as default but it appears not. I have been testing a number of meter available to me this afternoon, about 10 of them were reading correctly. Hopefully I can get a video out to show them in operation.
@@three-phase562 OK, I knew there were meters capable, but didn't know it was an actual mode. I just know the PWM is up in the kHz range and not easy to measure a reliable voltage. A video of them in action sounds good! Looking forward to it if you do make one. Thanks!
Two documents from this side of the Atlantic really informative maybe helpful for you to look and read: www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2014/04/f15/amo_motors_guidebook_web.pdf www.energy.gov/sites/default/files/2014/04/f15/amo_motors_handbook_web.pdf
Thanks for these documents. Having read through them they are pointed more towards online testing for operational efficiency rather than the preventative maintenance testing I tend to do. Are you more interested in the online or offline testing aspects?
@@three-phase562 so here is my view while you can take the two approaches and range of testing and test types differ I am actually of the view that both should be part and parcel of any predictive maintenance plan (PdM) they are not substitutes but complements. If your really worried about preventative maintenance through offline testing then faults at that level can be traced back to the motor’s operational environment and it’s running condition in that environment. Correcting power quality and voltage issues (online testing) through signal analysis can prolong life of motors by reducing stress on the motor’s insulations and other parts. The main purpose of offline and online testing is to ensure longevity and operational efficiency of motors for the client not that they just work, or kept working, or worse still working in sub-optimal ways. Not a motor expert like yourself but I thought that online testing was also one of the fastest ways to verify whether rotor bars were cracked or broken not that offline testing could not do it as well? In short interested in both types of testing given i am of the view they are both interdependent. I do believe you need both types of data to make to make the right interpretation of the motors health. Here is an old article you might like: www.pdma.com/pdfs/cs/Case_Studies_in_Online_and_Offline_Motor_Analysis.pdf
I did not see the motor setup you did there would have like some information on that. Maybe that a separate video. Also no link for the first firmware update? I have said this before and hope you take your time. I would love for you to go through a whole set of motor standard testing and discussions of these standards and your views on them. That would be superb and right up your alley. I appreciate it would take time to do but it makes sense given the growing importance of Motor development in the new EV world.
Thanks for mentioning the missing links, I have now added them for the initial firmware upgrade and the motor test video.
The motor is a 0.25 kW 3 phase 240V delta connected. I power it from a single to three phase inverter. The capacitor bank and coil between the motor and inverter are a low pass filter arrangement, but I took it out of circuit for these tests.
I remember you asking about motor testing standards, I just haven't managed to record anything as of yet. I am also wary that they are copyright material and need to make sure I don't cross any boundaries.
@@three-phase562 on the standards let me see what I can do. We can use published material that is open source to look at different types of testing there is a great deal of overlap with many of the standards that way you don’t breach copyright.
I do really get annoyed that many companies that do firmware release don’t provide enough information. It’s an opportunity to address software issues and add new test sequences and test types as standards develop. Great idea and gives longevity to a piece of expensive test equipment. I have a Gossen Mettrawatt Secutest Pro an excellent equipment safety tester with 2-firmware upgrades in the past but very little information on the upgrades. Poor practice in my view and it’s not just an issue affecting Megger.
What you really need is direct communication access to Megger engineers to talk these issues through the filter correction is an obvious one they could have addressed through the software unless it does require them to offer a cheap made external filter.
I think some companies are just a little insular regarding the design of their instruments. I know in the past when I have discussed issues with another company, they said that they direct their efforts towards the problems with the most reports. So If I am the only one who reports the inverter issue to Megger, it is likely they won't address it, or will take much longer too. It will be a bigger issue to them if it is a hardware resolution.
Thanks for watching and commenting.
When compiling a firmware or software "changelog" there is the issue of intended audience. A lot of end users really don't care about the what, they just want the latest whatever. At the other end of the spectrum are the technical users who want to be treated like adults and make their own decisions about their own tools.
I inhabit a dreamworld where firmware and software components are as well documented as their hardware equivalents. In this world there are different levels of documentation for different audiences - from marketing glossy through datasheet to application notes and engineering memos. This already exists in part. But it can be hard to make the business case for comprehensive coverage.
I would imagine that there is internal documentation covering the firmware changes within Megger, after all they are an ISO 9001 registered company. I guess it is just what they want to put out in the public domain.
I appreciate what you are saying about the intended audience, but surely the user audience for the MTR105 is fairly restrictive and would benefit from some sort of rudimentary upgrade information.
Thanks for watching and commenting.
As you know, VFDs are hard to measure due to the PWM switching frequency. Are you aware of any DMMs that can measure a VFD output with no load or filters on them? I don't think that is something that firmware would be able to address, it's more of a physical limitation and not sure what works for one VFD would work on another. Due to the different switching frequencies. But, I haven't had to mess with many VFD voltage measurements. I just know they are hard to get measurements from.
Its a very good question. There are a number of meters available with either an LPF or VFD setting that can carry out the measurement. I thought that the Megger with a 0 to 400 Hz voltage range would apply that as default but it appears not. I have been testing a number of meter available to me this afternoon, about 10 of them were reading correctly. Hopefully I can get a video out to show them in operation.
@@three-phase562 OK, I knew there were meters capable, but didn't know it was an actual mode. I just know the PWM is up in the kHz range and not easy to measure a reliable voltage.
A video of them in action sounds good! Looking forward to it if you do make one. Thanks!
Two documents from this side of the Atlantic really informative maybe helpful for you to look and read:
www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2014/04/f15/amo_motors_guidebook_web.pdf
www.energy.gov/sites/default/files/2014/04/f15/amo_motors_handbook_web.pdf
Thanks for these documents. Having read through them they are pointed more towards online testing for operational efficiency rather than the preventative maintenance testing I tend to do.
Are you more interested in the online or offline testing aspects?
@@three-phase562 so here is my view while you can take the two approaches and range of testing and test types differ I am actually of the view that both should be part and parcel of any predictive maintenance plan (PdM) they are not substitutes but complements. If your really worried about preventative maintenance through offline testing then faults at that level can be traced back to the motor’s operational environment and it’s running condition in that environment. Correcting power quality and voltage issues (online testing) through signal analysis can prolong life of motors by reducing stress on the motor’s insulations and other parts. The main purpose of offline and online testing is to ensure longevity and operational efficiency of motors for the client not that they just work, or kept working, or worse still working in sub-optimal ways. Not a motor expert like yourself but I thought that online testing was also one of the fastest ways to verify whether rotor bars were cracked or broken not that offline testing could not do it as well? In short interested in both types of testing given i am of the view they are both interdependent. I do believe you need both types of data to make to make the right interpretation of the motors health. Here is an old article you might like:
www.pdma.com/pdfs/cs/Case_Studies_in_Online_and_Offline_Motor_Analysis.pdf