I really appreciate this so much. The gaslighting and constant apologetic response to every problem that "people aren't perfect" has allowed too much damage, too much abuse. I love that you outline basic expectations for ecclesiastical leaders, such as honesty. Thank you thank you thank you.
I agree with you; my expectation is that “The Only True Church” would always be “Truthful” and “Honest”. That expectation is reflected in the 13th Article of Faith. These are not high expectations. Being Honest and Truthful isn’t perfection. They are only elements of it.
John Dehlin nailed it when he said he was promised revelation and instead we get retractions.. Modern day revelation is modern day retraction, bait and switch.
I so much appreciate you, Julia, to SPEAK THE TRUTH. Without you, we might not know what are facts and what are lies. And of course I don't expect a prophet to be perfect AS A PERSON--but I EXPECT A PROFECT TO BE PERFECT in all church matters! After all, didn't you claim it is GOD who is leading the church? Then how can God make mistakes? And being racist? Sexist? And all other things?
Look, I am an active member of the church, a little older than him and a returned missionary. Not only was I taught these things while a youth, a missionary, a young father, and then in various positions of responsibility in the church-I passed them on a truths. To be told by someone who wasn’t there and with less than 1/3 time in the church such manipulative and gaslighting ‘doctrine’ is insulting and disrespectful towards the service members like John Dehlin put in only to have us told by an inferior & deviously false teacher WE got it wrong is where the heat in Dr. Dehlin’s reply come from. If you listen and closely check Brother Dehlin, you’ll find he hasn’t changed his dedication to the told-it’s on the Church that it’s not been forthcoming and candid. Excommunication is a powerful motivator and so is this stunt. 😢
Thank you, Julia, for fact-checking apologists. NO, I didn’t believe prophets were perfect, but they were supposed to be honest and yes, we were taught “What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken… whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is THE SAME.” D&C 1:38
@ChrisFBartlett. And that catchy little bit is right off the dirt road droppings. WHOEVER tries to parlay with it, NO GOD said that AT ANY TIME to any man. [Except the fantastical momos]
I kind of get why some people lie about stuff like that, they want to "save" us from a fate worst than death, that's why I generally don't trust apologists and their ilk.
ChatGPT is like one of those know-it-alls who, if they don't know the information, will just make stuff up. People who use it should always do their research and not rely on it for factual information.
@steveambrose. AMEN! The best advantage of an "Ongoing Revelation" game is how it can be massaged like a hunk of cows' liver, and even when it's reduced to mush, it can still be sold to those fed on it. And crave it. The nastier, the better.
@markmidwest. See; we still are not astute enough at the systematic criminality in place here, we didn't think of that! Still, no matter how specific one manages to hone an inquiry, the respondent is yet more skilled at MISSING THE POINT. 🤪
Thank you for this articulation. "Leader perfection" is a total Straw Man. Where there are any statements acknowledging that leaders sometimes make mistakes, it typically is only a component of Doublespeak, or speaking out both sides of the mouth, for plausible deniability and to deliberately cause uncertainty. But the countless, false messages of Infallibility and Truthfulness come through just fine, as intended.
Well said. However, I believe the point of apologists is to take advantage of the average church member that only has time to listen to short videos or listen while doing something else and has NO time to do any research themselves. Therefore they rely on apologists to have their best interests in mind and view them as authorities on the subject. Therefore since Colton adds references, why question it? Why would he make something up or embellish the facts?
The issue that John raised was whether or not the prophet speaks with God. I have never understood anything other than that. Repeatedly Rusty has claimed to be the mouthpiece of God. To utter the words God would have. There’s nothing about perfection in the claim. The problem is it’s a totally gaslighting statement. It’s a complete lie. John Dehlin did not make it up, he didn’t misquote, he understood what he was taught.
@williamwallaceg2627. Even worse now. rmn's little vignette defining what the word "prophet" MEANS is inaccurate, at best. [Check APOSTLE Paul, if you can find accurate scripture ANYWHERE NEAR a mormon church-house.] But rmn's habitual and characteristic self- aggrandizing exaggeration of things has reached the point at which he barely stops before declaring outright that HE IS CHRIST. LISTEN TO HIM. He wiggles all around the bush, with gesture, intonation, and VERY SUBTLY, changes a word here or there. He is EMPHATIC THAT it is HE who is to be worshiped. And have we not seen the results of this beguiling?
When I was a member, I can never remember going to a sacrament meeting or home teaching or elsewhere and hearing prophets make mistakes. The members sort of said it in passing but it was not the official stance of the Church. That interview with Haydn was terrible. They were not even representing or defending the Church logically. Those guys believe something different. They kept deflecting every question and misleading with questions that do not teach Church doctrine.
If you didn't hear the truth being taught at church as a member, then why didn't YOU teach it? The church IS the members. That was YOUR responsibility. I teach this ALL the time at church. I dont run away and hide because others aren't doing it.
@@fightingfortruth9806 Stop shouting at me, please. Regarding teaching the "truth" as you put it, how did you do it? How did you give a talk in a sacrament meeting in which you explicitly said prophets make mistakes. Which examples did you use and what was the topic? I am very curious. How did your priesthood leaders react? Was there anybody of note in the meeting such as stake high council, general authorities or higher? In general, teachings such as "the thinking is done" does not invite criticism such as "prophets makes mistakes". I never felt that it was my job to teach the truth as I saw it. I always felt that I had to follow what was taught and the so called promptings of the Holy Spirit. I never once felt like there was some kind of an open forum to openly discuss the problems of the Church such as prophets making mistakes. I never heard anybody explicitly say they felt that the prophet was saying somethig wrong or wasn't following the spirit. There was never a time in priesthood meeting or elsewhere in which any of the problems with the current or past prophets or the Book of Mormon were discussed. The Church is not a place that changes. By the way, what does your last sentence mean?
Colton commented on his own video realizing that he had received and used fake quotes unintentionally in his video. He did that a week before you posted this video. It seems as though when you saw him admitting his own error you used it against him. You say that he is intentionally misleading people when he is not. This is the only video of his that he cited incorrect sources. And he apologized for his error. He’s an amateur apologist, give him a break.
Your closing comments are where it is all at! The Mormon church leaders ABSOLUTELY say their prophets speak for god. Nobody expects them to be perfect. But we do expect them to tell the truth.
Interesting, that as a convert of almost 50 years, I was never taught what Dehlin claims that he was taught. Wonder who he was listening to?; likely some truth twister like you Julia.
@@scottvance74 You should stop being a juvenile and if you feel compelled to make an unsolicited remark, at least make an effort to show some intelligence, challenging as that no doubt is for you.
@@sarahpinho1114 I converted to The Church almost fifty years ago; thoroughly investigated ALL the ‘issues’ you exmos claim derailed your faith, looong before the internet when actual research was laborious and difficult, and I found abundant, contextual evidence which fully confirmed my spiritual testimony which has only grown stronger after decades of study and application. John Dehlin began as a legitimate questioner but has long ago devolved into a self-serving ‘professional’ destroyer of the fragile faith of the gullible. (he invited me to be on Mormon Stories last year btw).
@@scandia67 It's a lie when you know its not true and share it anyway. He thought the quotes were legit when he shared them. When he discovered they were false he told everyone.
@@nwkitesurfer Thinking quotes generated by ChatGPT are without error and repeating them without confirmation is bearing false witness, whether it was intended or not.
I have no idea who this guy is and I'm too lazy to look up his quotes. I do know there have been several different editions of Mormon Doctrine so if you don't find a quote in one you might find it in another. It was Paul who said "For we know in part, and we prophesy in part...For now we see through a glass, darkly"
@NancyBrien-xw8hg. You hit two hammers, head to head! And the PROFOUNDLY CRITICAL POINT resounds long after: - Not enough time or incentive to STUDY THE. HOLY. SCRIPTURES. nor any particulars of same; - APOSTLE Paul DOES say, "We see through a glass darkly, ..." BUT HE NEVER SAYS, "We prophesy only partially", or "through a glass darkly", or "in putative stages", or "in continual changing/altering of" - and/or "contradiction to" - PREVIOUSLY GIVEN REVELATIONS. NOR EVER, EVER, EVER , "Go dig up what you were told GIVE UP and then proceed to REINSTATE, REINTEGRATE, RECONFLATE, and propound the result as a RE-FORMED version AND A NEW and EVERLASTING VISION!"
Cool, so will we get the same standard regarding false quotes and misleading statements that antis share and never apologize for, or is this continued hypocrisy from yalls side? Asking for a friend
Tell your friend that former members are a mixed bag. Some are dishonest, but others incredibly honest and sincere. In that way, they're kind of similar to active members.
I want to push back a bit... I expected perfection from the prophets, and I think the prophet should be held to a standard of perfection when it comes to declaring something as doctrine or the word of God.
A apologist that gets basic stuff wrong isnt a apologist, and I dont get why he did that. I myself defent the church in many instances, but think that there never should be reason to hide anything. The same way we treat truth with others, is the way how we treat our own faith, and vice versa. Apologetics that make things better than they are rather cause harm.. So, let the truth be truth where it deserves it, and lets apply the same principle to everything else.
@@scottvance74 Ooow, I’m getting chills to be in the August presence of a brilliant wannabe church historian. Since you’re such a font of knowledge and wisdom, how ‘bout you pick one and educate me?…
@@sheldonjackson383 Gregory Prince, LDS author of the well reviewed David O. McKay biography as stated that there is no major doctrine in the LDS church which hasn't changed over the last 150 years.
@@scottvance74 That’s what you call evidence?! Please, you should be able to do muuuuch better than that! Give me a specific doctrine that has changed…
@@sheldonjackson383 I'll give you 5: 1) Polygamy required for exaltation 2) Blacks banned from the priesthood 3) God and Jesus were polygamists 4) The doctrine of baptism for healing in the temple 5) The doctrine that no one was born gay and the accompanying teaching that mastrubation turned a person gay and praying, going on a mission, and marrying a woman could make a gay person straight. But really, there are dozens more... Repeating Prince: There is not a single important doctrine within Mormonism that has not changed.
There is a whole article on FAIRLLDS with sourced quotes on the fallibility of prophets. Joseph Smith: "The position is not assumed that the men of the New Dispensation -its prophets, apostles, presidencies, and other leaders-are without faults or infallible, rather they are treated as men of like passions with their fellow men"
When you seek answers from the Book of Mormon instead of the Bible, God can't help you because you have turned your back on Him. Therefore this leaves the door open for Satan (II Corinthians 11:14-15) to step into your life with a false christ or prophet showing you signs and wonders to lead you away from the real Jesus of the Bible who is God the Son 2nd person of the Trinity and the Eternal Creator God. God Himself warns us about this in: MATTHEW 24: 23-24 "Then if anyone says to you, Look, here is the Christ! or There! do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect..." Mormons teach and believe that their jesus is the brother of Satan, which contradicts what God says in His Bible that Jesus is God the Son 2nd person of the Trinity and the Eternal Creator God. So Mormons, which Jesus do you believe in? A. Your jesus of the Book of Mormon, who is the brother of Satan. OR B. The Jesus of the Bible, who is God the Son 2nd person of the Trinity and the Eternal Creator God.
@Kgoverstreet Well if you want to put it that way. Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and all the Mormon prophets are not mentioned anywhere in Bible. There was a question asked of you from the post, which Jesus do you believe in? A. Your jesus of the Book of Mormon, who is the brother of Satan. OR B. The Jesus of the Bible, who is God the Son 2nd person of the Trinity and the Eternal Creator God.
@Kgoverstreet Let's talk about BIBLICAL EVIDENCE FOR THE TRINITY. First, in order for you to understand the Biblical evidence for the TRINITY, you must first stop trying to "put God in a box..." God's Divine existence is BEYOND human understanding and the physical limitations of this world. Let's hear what God Himself says about this in: I TIMOTHY 3:16 "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: A. God was manifested in the flesh, B. Justified in the Spirit, C. Seen by angels, D. Preached among the Gentiles, E. Believed on in the world, F. Received up in glory. Notice "A" where it says: "God was manifested in the flesh. As you can read, God's Divinity is limitless and beyond human understanding. Next, let's go to: ISAIAH 45:5 "I am the Lord, and there is no other; There is no God besides Me..." Keep this verse in mind, because we are going to circle back to this in a little bit. We are going to show the Divine identity of God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. GOD: We have God identifying Himself to Moses in: EXODUS 3:14 And God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And He said, "Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, I AM has sent me to you..." We have God identifying Himself as the "I AM." JOHN 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God..." We have God identified as the "Word." JESUS: We have Jesus identifying Himself in: JOHN 8:58 And Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM..." We have Jesus identifying Himself as the "I AM" the same title God used in Exodus 3:14. JOHN 1:14 "And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth..." We have Jesus identified as the "Word" the same title God used in John 1:1. I TIMOTHY 3:16. "...God was manifested in the flesh..." HOLY SPIRIT: We have Peter talking to Ananias in: ACTS 5:3-4 But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit (notice that he said that you are lying to the Holy Spirit) and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God..." We have the Holy Spirit recognized as being God! We have God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit all recognized as being God. Let's circle back to ISAIAH 45:5 where it says: "There is no God besides Me..." With this verse, we either have complete Kaos here, or, since God says that He is "not the author of confusion..." (I Corinthians 14:33). We can confidently conclude that the only explanation for this is: "TRINITY" But wait, there's more Biblical evidence for the TRINITY, let's go to the Resurrection of Jesus Christ. We have God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit all at the Resurrection of Jesus. GOD: We have God raising Jesus from the dead. *Acts 3:26 *I THESSALONIANS 1:10 *Acts 17:31 JESUS: We have Jesus raising Himself from the dead. *John 2:19-21 HOLY SPIRIT: We have Jesus raising Himself from the dead. *Romans 8:11 We have God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit all at the Resurrection raising Jesus from the dead! There you are, BIBLICAL EVIDENCE FOR THE TRINITY.
@@AlbertJLouie I mean it was just a question. And your question puts God in a box as if those are the only 2 choices. My personal experience from reading the New Testament, I’m in Romans so far, to me it clearly talks about Jesus and God as different beings. I mean he’s called the son of God, to me it’s that simple. As for the “Book of Mormon Jesus.” There is no such thing. There is Jesus Christ. And there is only one Jesus Christ that died on the cross for our sins and performed miracles. No other. The Book of Mormon however, is a true book. I challenge you to read it. Try to read it without looking to criticize it. I’m not saying force yourself to believe it, but read it with real intent. If you do, you will find that it is true, not by your own understanding, but by the power of the Holy Ghost. I hope you do.
@@Kgoverstreet Stop tap dancing around the question asked of you. As a matter of fact, let me answer it for you. You Mormons believe that your jesus is the brother of Satan, which contradicts what God says in His Bible that Jesus is God the Son 2nd person of the Trinity and the Eternal Creator God. In sharp contrast to your Mormon theology, the Biblical witness is clear and convincing: Jesus is the ETERNAL CREATOR GOD (John 1; Colossians 1; Hebrews 1; Revelation 1). Paul explicitly taught that Jesus is the CREATOR of all, including the angelic realm to which Satan belongs (Colossians 1:15-16; cf. John 1:3). Jesus is thus Satan's Creator, not HIS spirit brother. COLOSSIANS 1:15-16 (NKJV) [Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the FIRSTBORN over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through HIM and for HIM. Your so-called prophets lied to you about the true identity of Jesus Christ.
People do something better for yourselves all you are doing is making that church keeps growing HF is behind his Church LDS church No one can destroy that church It’s just gonna keep growing and growing throughout this Earth till the end 🙏🙏🙏
I really appreciate this so much. The gaslighting and constant apologetic response to every problem that "people aren't perfect" has allowed too much damage, too much abuse. I love that you outline basic expectations for ecclesiastical leaders, such as honesty. Thank you thank you thank you.
@@sarahpinho1114 quiet pretender.
I agree with you; my expectation is that “The Only True Church” would always be “Truthful” and “Honest”. That expectation is reflected in the 13th Article of Faith. These are not high expectations.
Being Honest and Truthful isn’t perfection. They are only elements of it.
The 13th article of faith will be revised as another "policy change"😂
As an active member I agree with you on this one. Thank you for a good, positive video.
John Dehlin nailed it when he said he was promised revelation and instead we get retractions.. Modern day revelation is modern day retraction, bait and switch.
Preach! You can speak for me on being an ex-mormon any day!!!! I appreciate all of your research!
AMEN! 🙌🏻 Thanks for all you do, Julia 😁
Colton - liar for the lord
He is a deceived man defending a devious organisation.
“For the apologists of the church, do better!” Mic drop.
I so much appreciate you, Julia, to SPEAK THE TRUTH. Without you, we might not know what are facts and what are lies.
And of course I don't expect a prophet to be perfect AS A PERSON--but I EXPECT A PROFECT TO BE PERFECT in all church matters! After all, didn't you claim it is GOD who is leading the church? Then how can God make mistakes? And being racist? Sexist? And all other things?
Nailed it, again
Julia. You are awesome.
Gloves off! I love your take down of these apologists 😊
Look, I am an active member of the church, a little older than him and a returned missionary. Not only was I taught these things while a youth, a missionary, a young father, and then in various positions of responsibility in the church-I passed them on a truths. To be told by someone who wasn’t there and with less than 1/3 time in the church such manipulative and gaslighting ‘doctrine’ is insulting and disrespectful towards the service members like John Dehlin put in only to have us told by an inferior & deviously false teacher WE got it wrong is where the heat in Dr. Dehlin’s reply come from. If you listen and closely check Brother Dehlin, you’ll find he hasn’t changed his dedication to the told-it’s on the Church that it’s not been forthcoming and candid. Excommunication is a powerful motivator and so is this stunt. 😢
Thank you so much. The response videos to apologists are so so helpful
Julia. Bringing down the hammer. Thank you for fact checking the bs
How are you so sure she did? Did you look anything up, or just take all at face value?
@@mrp4242
Combing the beaches for acorns, are you?
very well articulated
Thank you, Julia, for fact-checking apologists. NO, I didn’t believe prophets were perfect, but they were supposed to be honest and yes, we were taught “What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken… whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is THE SAME.” D&C 1:38
We weren't just taught this, we were required to memorize it.
@ChrisFBartlett.
And that catchy little bit is right off the dirt road droppings.
WHOEVER tries to parlay with it, NO GOD said that
AT ANY TIME to any man.
[Except the fantastical momos]
I kind of get why some people lie about stuff like that, they want to "save" us from a fate worst than death, that's why I generally don't trust apologists and their ilk.
Thanks!
My expectation was honestly and sincere apologies when they get things wrong. Still waiting for both.
Great video ❤❤❤
Thank you! Your response was amazing
ChatGPT is like one of those know-it-alls who, if they don't know the information, will just make stuff up. People who use it should always do their research and not rely on it for factual information.
Let’s get back to using the definition of a prophet as contained in the OT and not use the definition of the word as used by the Mormon church.
That would be a good start. 👍
@steveambrose. AMEN!
The best advantage of an
"Ongoing Revelation" game is how it can be massaged like a hunk of cows' liver, and even when it's reduced to mush, it can still be sold to those fed on it. And crave it.
The nastier, the better.
Yikes!! Wonder where he learned to gaslight and mislead? Asking for a friend.
Probably lds bot. Its quotes don’t really work (which the creators even acknowledge) but they sound good like something the leaders would say.
So he either didn't fact check a single one of those quotes, or he's a liar liar pants. Well colour me shocked.
Amen.
Bang mike drop.
"Do better!" 😄I loved it!
Oh ChatGPT, why have you forsaken us?
"Do better" is going to be taken as do better at deceiving.
@markmidwest.
See; we still are not astute enough at the systematic criminality in place here, we didn't think of that!
Still, no matter how specific one manages to hone an inquiry, the respondent is yet
more skilled at MISSING THE POINT. 🤪
You're the best at this 💯👆
Thank you for this articulation. "Leader perfection" is a total Straw Man. Where there are any statements acknowledging that leaders sometimes make mistakes, it typically is only a component of Doublespeak, or speaking out both sides of the mouth, for plausible deniability and to deliberately cause uncertainty. But the countless, false messages of Infallibility and Truthfulness come through just fine, as intended.
Ah, snap!
Well said. However, I believe the point of apologists is to take advantage of the average church member that only has time to listen to short videos or listen while doing something else and has NO time to do any research themselves. Therefore they rely on apologists to have their best interests in mind and view them as authorities on the subject. Therefore since Colton adds references, why question it? Why would he make something up or embellish the facts?
So yes they need to do better (apologists), but they can't.
The issue that John raised was whether or not the prophet speaks with God. I have never understood anything other than that. Repeatedly Rusty has claimed to be the mouthpiece of God. To utter the words God would have.
There’s nothing about perfection in the claim. The problem is it’s a totally gaslighting statement. It’s a complete lie. John Dehlin did not make it up, he didn’t misquote, he understood what he was taught.
@williamwallaceg2627.
Even worse now.
rmn's little vignette defining what the word "prophet" MEANS is inaccurate, at best.
[Check APOSTLE Paul, if you can find accurate scripture ANYWHERE NEAR a mormon church-house.]
But rmn's habitual and characteristic self- aggrandizing exaggeration of things has reached the point at which he barely stops before declaring outright that HE IS
CHRIST.
LISTEN TO HIM. He wiggles all around the bush, with gesture, intonation, and VERY SUBTLY, changes a word here or there. He is EMPHATIC THAT it is HE who is to be worshiped.
And have we not seen the results of this beguiling?
👏👏👏👏👏👏 oh man, you are on fire!! I love it. Epic take down! Seriously, he should be shamed out of a job completely for making all that up.
I had the same expectation as well.
OMG.... such blatant lying for the Lord.
girrrrrl, killin' it out here.
When I was a member, I can never remember going to a sacrament meeting or home teaching or elsewhere and hearing prophets make mistakes. The members sort of said it in passing but it was not the official stance of the Church. That interview with Haydn was terrible. They were not even representing or defending the Church logically. Those guys believe something different. They kept deflecting every question and misleading with questions that do not teach Church doctrine.
If you didn't hear the truth being taught at church as a member, then why didn't YOU teach it? The church IS the members. That was YOUR responsibility.
I teach this ALL the time at church. I dont run away and hide because others aren't doing it.
@@fightingfortruth9806 most people agree it's a reasonable expectation for their church to be truthful
@@fightingfortruth9806 Stop shouting at me, please. Regarding teaching the "truth" as you put it, how did you do it? How did you give a talk in a sacrament meeting in which you explicitly said prophets make mistakes. Which examples did you use and what was the topic? I am very curious. How did your priesthood leaders react? Was there anybody of note in the meeting such as stake high council, general authorities or higher?
In general, teachings such as "the thinking is done" does not invite criticism such as "prophets makes mistakes". I never felt that it was my job to teach the truth as I saw it. I always felt that I had to follow what was taught and the so called promptings of the Holy Spirit. I never once felt like there was some kind of an open forum to openly discuss the problems of the Church such as prophets making mistakes. I never heard anybody explicitly say they felt that the prophet was saying somethig wrong or wasn't following the spirit. There was never a time in priesthood meeting or elsewhere in which any of the problems with the current or past prophets or the Book of Mormon were discussed. The Church is not a place that changes.
By the way, what does your last sentence mean?
If you're claiming Jesus talks directly to you, and that all other churches are false, then perfect IS the standard.
Wow!
❤️❤️❤️
Awesome video, good catch, thank u,
Colton commented on his own video realizing that he had received and used fake quotes unintentionally in his video. He did that a week before you posted this video. It seems as though when you saw him admitting his own error you used it against him. You say that he is intentionally misleading people when he is not. This is the only video of his that he cited incorrect sources. And he apologized for his error. He’s an amateur apologist, give him a break.
Your closing comments are where it is all at! The Mormon church leaders ABSOLUTELY say their prophets speak for god. Nobody expects them to be perfect. But we do expect them to tell the truth.
🔥
Interesting, that as a convert of almost 50 years, I was never taught what Dehlin claims that he was taught.
Wonder who he was listening to?; likely some truth twister like you Julia.
Evidently he was listening to general conference. You should try it sometime
@@scottvance74
You should stop being a juvenile and if you feel compelled to make an unsolicited remark, at least make an effort to show some intelligence, challenging as that no doubt is for you.
@@sheldonjackson383 I was in the church for forty years and served a mission, and had the same experience as Dehlin 🤷
@@sarahpinho1114
I converted to The Church almost fifty years ago; thoroughly investigated ALL the ‘issues’ you exmos claim derailed your faith, looong before the internet when actual research was laborious and difficult, and I found abundant, contextual evidence which fully confirmed my spiritual testimony which has only grown stronger after decades of study and application.
John Dehlin began as a legitimate questioner but has long ago devolved into a self-serving ‘professional’ destroyer of the fragile faith of the gullible.
(he invited me to be on Mormon Stories last year btw).
@@sheldonjackson383 sounds like you know everything.. I guess there's nothing left to learn.
A Mormon can Obey Gods Commandments as well as anyone else Christians disobey too 😊❤
Colton made a video about his mistake. He's an upstanding dude.
If he was upstanding he wouldn't have lied in the first place.
@@scandia67 It's a lie when you know its not true and share it anyway. He thought the quotes were legit when he shared them. When he discovered they were false he told everyone.
@@nwkitesurfer Thinking quotes generated by ChatGPT are without error and repeating them without confirmation is bearing false witness, whether it was intended or not.
@@scandia67 No it's not. Your lack of charity and forgiveness will be more costly to your salvation then sharing quotes you should have verified
Mic drop
I have no idea who this guy is and I'm too lazy to look up his quotes. I do know there have been several different editions of Mormon Doctrine so if you don't find a quote in one you might find it in another.
It was Paul who said
"For we know in part, and we prophesy in part...For now we see through a glass, darkly"
@NancyBrien-xw8hg.
You hit two hammers, head to head!
And the PROFOUNDLY CRITICAL POINT resounds long after:
- Not enough time or incentive to STUDY
THE. HOLY. SCRIPTURES.
nor any particulars of same;
- APOSTLE Paul DOES say,
"We see through a glass
darkly, ..."
BUT HE NEVER SAYS,
"We prophesy only partially", or "through a glass darkly",
or "in putative stages",
or "in continual changing/altering of" - and/or
"contradiction to" -
PREVIOUSLY
GIVEN REVELATIONS.
NOR
EVER, EVER, EVER ,
"Go dig up what you were told GIVE UP and then proceed to
REINSTATE,
REINTEGRATE,
RECONFLATE,
and propound
the result as a RE-FORMED version AND A NEW and
EVERLASTING VISION!"
The Mormon church, its not a lie if you believe it...
The cult is stopping very low😂. Who does the cult teach is the father of all lies? Who fathered your lies Colton 😂
Cool, so will we get the same standard regarding false quotes and misleading statements that antis share and never apologize for, or is this continued hypocrisy from yalls side? Asking for a friend
Tell your friend that former members are a mixed bag. Some are dishonest, but others incredibly honest and sincere. In that way, they're kind of similar to active members.
I want to push back a bit... I expected perfection from the prophets, and I think the prophet should be held to a standard of perfection when it comes to declaring something as doctrine or the word of God.
Agreed!
A apologist that gets basic stuff wrong isnt a apologist, and I dont get why he did that. I myself defent the church in many instances, but think that there never should be reason to hide anything. The same way we treat truth with others, is the way how we treat our own faith, and vice versa.
Apologetics that make things better than they are rather cause harm.. So, let the truth be truth where it deserves it, and lets apply the same principle to everything else.
You should come back to church to teach these truths, Julia. I would welcome you.
There is no need to lie for God because it is already written down in black and white.
Briiiiiiiiillllliiiiiaaaannnnt❤❤❤❤
Wow.
She scared me. 😮😢😮
And I'm a never mo
When a "prophet" makes a statement or prophecy that is false then you know he is a false prophet. 2 out of 3 maybe fine for meatloaf but not for God.
he all ready apologized and said he got them from chat gpt
Just curious as to which doctrines church leaders lied about?
Please enlighten me…
Chose a doctrine and I will explain how it has evolved over time.
@@scottvance74
Ooow, I’m getting chills to be in the August presence of a brilliant wannabe church historian.
Since you’re such a font of knowledge and wisdom, how ‘bout you pick one and educate me?…
@@sheldonjackson383 Gregory Prince, LDS author of the well reviewed David O. McKay biography as stated that there is no major doctrine in the LDS church which hasn't changed over the last 150 years.
@@scottvance74
That’s what you call evidence?!
Please, you should be able to do muuuuch better than that!
Give me a specific doctrine that has changed…
@@sheldonjackson383 I'll give you 5: 1) Polygamy required for exaltation 2) Blacks banned from the priesthood 3) God and Jesus were polygamists 4) The doctrine of baptism for healing in the temple 5) The doctrine that no one was born gay and the accompanying teaching that mastrubation turned a person gay and praying, going on a mission, and marrying a woman could make a gay person straight. But really, there are dozens more... Repeating Prince: There is not a single important doctrine within Mormonism that has not changed.
There is a whole article on FAIRLLDS with sourced quotes on the fallibility of prophets.
Joseph Smith:
"The position is not assumed that the men of the New Dispensation -its prophets, apostles, presidencies, and other leaders-are without faults or infallible, rather they are treated as men of like passions with their fellow men"
So you must’ve been pretty peeved by all the stuff prophets said in the scriptures that got overruled by a new prophet huh?
Am I blocked by you or by YT?
Cannot enter a like.
Guess that's my answer.
"Be honest". Yeah . . . that's asking a lot from God's representatives. After all . . . God lies (1 Kings 22:19-23). Hehehe.
Mormon apologists are saying that the Black Priesthood ban was only temporary
When you seek answers from the Book of Mormon instead of the Bible, God can't help you because you have turned your back on Him. Therefore this leaves the door open for Satan (II Corinthians 11:14-15) to step into your life with a false christ or prophet showing you signs and wonders to lead you away from the real Jesus of the Bible who is God the Son 2nd person of the Trinity and the Eternal Creator God. God Himself warns us about this in: MATTHEW 24: 23-24
"Then if anyone says to you, Look, here is the Christ! or There! do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect..."
Mormons teach and believe that their jesus is the brother of Satan, which contradicts what God says in His Bible that Jesus is God the Son 2nd person of the Trinity and the Eternal Creator God. So Mormons, which Jesus do you believe in?
A. Your jesus of the Book of Mormon, who is the brother of Satan.
OR
B. The Jesus of the Bible, who is God the Son 2nd person of the Trinity and the Eternal Creator God.
Where in the Bible does it say Jesus is the 2nd person in the trinity? When the Bible never once says trinity…. Or that those 3 are the same being.
@Kgoverstreet
Well if you want to put it that way.
Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and all the Mormon prophets are not mentioned anywhere in Bible.
There was a question asked of you from the post, which Jesus do you believe in?
A. Your jesus of the Book of Mormon, who is the brother of Satan.
OR
B. The Jesus of the Bible, who is God the Son 2nd person of the Trinity and the Eternal Creator God.
@Kgoverstreet
Let's talk about BIBLICAL EVIDENCE FOR THE TRINITY.
First, in order for you to understand the Biblical evidence for the TRINITY, you must first stop trying to "put God in a box..." God's Divine existence is BEYOND human understanding and the physical limitations of this world. Let's hear what God Himself says about this in:
I TIMOTHY 3:16
"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
A. God was manifested in the flesh,
B. Justified in the Spirit,
C. Seen by angels,
D. Preached among the Gentiles,
E. Believed on in the world,
F. Received up in glory.
Notice "A" where it says: "God was manifested in the flesh.
As you can read, God's Divinity is limitless and beyond human understanding.
Next, let's go to:
ISAIAH 45:5
"I am the Lord, and there is no other;
There is no God besides Me..."
Keep this verse in mind, because we are going to circle back to this in a little bit.
We are going to show the Divine identity of God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.
GOD: We have God identifying Himself to Moses in:
EXODUS 3:14
And God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And He said, "Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, I AM has sent me to you..."
We have God identifying Himself as the "I AM."
JOHN 1:1
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God..."
We have God identified as the "Word."
JESUS: We have Jesus identifying Himself in:
JOHN 8:58
And Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM..."
We have Jesus identifying Himself as the "I AM" the same title God used in Exodus 3:14.
JOHN 1:14
"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth..."
We have Jesus identified as the "Word" the same title God used in John 1:1.
I TIMOTHY 3:16.
"...God was manifested in the flesh..."
HOLY SPIRIT: We have Peter talking to Ananias in:
ACTS 5:3-4
But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit (notice that he said that you are lying to the Holy Spirit) and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself?
While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God..."
We have the Holy Spirit recognized as being God!
We have God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit all recognized as being God.
Let's circle back to ISAIAH 45:5 where it says: "There is no God besides Me..." With this verse, we either have complete Kaos here, or, since God says that He is "not the author of confusion..." (I Corinthians 14:33). We can confidently conclude that the only explanation for this is:
"TRINITY"
But wait, there's more Biblical evidence for the TRINITY, let's go to the Resurrection of Jesus Christ.
We have God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit all at the Resurrection of Jesus.
GOD: We have God raising Jesus from the dead.
*Acts 3:26
*I THESSALONIANS 1:10
*Acts 17:31
JESUS: We have Jesus raising Himself from the dead.
*John 2:19-21
HOLY SPIRIT: We have Jesus raising Himself from the dead.
*Romans 8:11
We have God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit all at the Resurrection raising Jesus from the dead!
There you are, BIBLICAL EVIDENCE FOR THE TRINITY.
@@AlbertJLouie I mean it was just a question. And your question puts God in a box as if those are the only 2 choices. My personal experience from reading the New Testament, I’m in Romans so far, to me it clearly talks about Jesus and God as different beings. I mean he’s called the son of God, to me it’s that simple.
As for the “Book of Mormon Jesus.” There is no such thing. There is Jesus Christ. And there is only one Jesus Christ that died on the cross for our sins and performed miracles. No other. The Book of Mormon however, is a true book. I challenge you to read it. Try to read it without looking to criticize it. I’m not saying force yourself to believe it, but read it with real intent. If you do, you will find that it is true, not by your own understanding, but by the power of the Holy Ghost. I hope you do.
@@Kgoverstreet
Stop tap dancing around the question asked of you.
As a matter of fact, let me answer it for you.
You Mormons believe that your jesus is the brother of Satan, which contradicts what God says in His Bible that Jesus is God the Son 2nd person of the Trinity and the Eternal Creator God.
In sharp contrast to your Mormon theology, the Biblical witness is clear and convincing: Jesus is the ETERNAL CREATOR GOD (John 1; Colossians 1; Hebrews 1; Revelation 1).
Paul explicitly taught that Jesus is the CREATOR of all, including the angelic realm to which Satan belongs (Colossians 1:15-16; cf. John 1:3).
Jesus is thus Satan's Creator, not HIS spirit brother.
COLOSSIANS 1:15-16 (NKJV)
[Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the FIRSTBORN over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through HIM and for HIM.
Your so-called prophets lied to you about the true identity of Jesus Christ.
People do something better for yourselves all you are doing is making that church keeps growing HF is behind his Church LDS church
No one can destroy that church
It’s just gonna keep growing and growing throughout this Earth till the end 🙏🙏🙏