@@mofomiko and its even better when the synergy pieces are also removal. A lot of cards fulfil two purposes and often better than mana efficiency on a spell.
@@luketargett2233 that's mostly black and white privilege talking, maybe blue with some bounce effects. For a lot of stuff synergy bundled with removal is simply not an option
Decide to cut a card, have existential crisis. Have creative epiphany while having existential crisis. Write script about existential crisis, relapsing into previously said existential crisis. Hope people watch video on existential crisis, identifying with own existential crisis AND relapse into their previous existential crises. ....I had an aneurysm writing this comment. Great work, Joey!
I like the Kondo Test when figuring out which cards to keep and which to cut... When you draw the card in question, how often and how much joy does it spark? Playing the deck and feeling the play patterns will tell you which cards to keep. Also asking yourself, "Which card do I wish I had drawn?" Is going to help with that. Because we often imagine scenarios that never really happen or don't survive contact with out opponents' decks
This video speaks to me on a profound level, the amount of hours I spend toiling over how I'm gonna fit that new cool value piece, or that removal that would work so well. The genuine stress that goes into it, but also the fact that even with all thay stress, I love that aspect of the game. Awesome video, Joey!
Feel ya, just took me a over week to make the final cuts to get my two new decks down to 100. Pondering every line, synergy, curve, land count and pet cards over and over . Just finish 15 min ago, then this vid went up. Watching it while sleeving them up.
I can definitely relate to this! I've reached that "every card is so good, but I need to cut something" point with several decks. Sometimes I can reach a cut, or at least a trial run, but a lot of times I end up taking the whole deck apart and starting from scratch. It helps me to avoid the trap of thinking it's impossible to remove that one specific card.
"The first draft of everything is crap." This applies to decks, too. Once I've built a deck I'll play it a few times and then rebuild it. You can usually find at least a dozen cards you would never have added in the first place now you know what the deck is actually like.
Thank you for normalizing my neuroticism while making the final cuts. My moxfield account is full of incomplete concept decklists, and with tax money coming in I had to force myself to sit down and finish four of them the other night. Going over the dozens of potential synergies that I was weighing against each other nearly drove me mad. I think your video did more to help with my mental health than it did with my deck building processes, and I thank you for that! 😂
This video explains the decision paralysis I’ve had for about a year now when it comes to building new commander decks or tuning up my old ones. The amount of new cards has actually helped stifle my EDH creativity. I appreciate the “just send it” vibe at the end of the video, though.
I have the same problem with my decks ... Every card seems necessary and I use the following trick for cutting cards: Build the entire deck from scratch and at first put the new card in. You will also consider way more cards for cutting.
Sometimes when the choice is hard between two great cards the difference between them is probably more negligible than you expect in practice. Hard to catch that when in the weeds of optimizing but it’s good to take a step back.
I love your chaotic energy in this video, Joey. It's great to see someone put these through processes - spirals of madness - into words. I saw this first with the idea of "why science is fun and how it works" in the Years of Rice and Salt (novel). It's also good to know that I'm not the only one who goes this insane :) Incidentally, this decision paralysis is part of why I finally got rid of my collection and most of my deck - too many years of this stuff, it's exhausting.
First... Thanks for your call for empathy and civility. I completely agree that the world would be better if we gave each other more space and grace in hopes to make better dialogue. I wish you the best. Second... In situations like this, sometimes it helps to go back to the fundamentals. What is the theme of the deck? What is the strategy for winning? What do you need to make the strategy work? Are there a couple (one to three) synergies that make this work better? After that, you can see what cards fit into that clear path. Just go through and see what fits and what doesn't. Look for both efficiency and synergy. To be honest, it sounds like your deck has a lot of synergies that was making it harder to come to decision.
One thing that helps me in situations like this is asking the question, "Which of these cards can I play in other decks?" So for instance with your Mana Rocks, you're probably not going to be playing the Scrying Rocks in other decks. Whereas a Mindstone and Commander's Sphere will. So for that reason, I would cut the later two. I've played them. I know they are good. I want to see other cards shine in a deck. And with that, you have two easy cuts. Are they the best cuts in terms of optimization? Who cares? Is this cEDH? No, we just are simply making a fun deck and I think it's more fun if I cast a card I wouldn't otherwise cast. Hope this helps in the future. Would love to see some cards get added in your Upping the Average series with this in mind. Highlight some of those niche cards.
First, I would like to say kudos for getting me to break my silence. I never comment on videos. Ever. Second, the reason I did break my silence is because I see a lot of people have this problem. And as a problem I used to have but no longer do I will share how I changed my thought process around deckbuilding. The big change I made was in how I evaluate cards. I no longer evaluate cards in any kind of way relating to theoretical synergy, power level, or fantasy. I ONLY evaluate cards by what level of happiness they bring me when I am actually playing, whether it be with friends of just goldfishing. By doing this it becomes very apparent very quickly which cards just don't do it for me in a real, non theoretical sense and I can cut them. Then I can run a permutation of the deck with the new cards and see if my level of satisfaction overall when I play them is greater or less than before. Now you may think "Doesn't that mean you'll just cut "veggie" cards or lands?" And the answer is no. I am happy when my decks rune smoothly, and they don't run smoothly without those cards so I am happy to see them. Another benefit of evaluating cards this way is I get to rediscover my own deck. Playing a cool new card I put in because it was fun without thinking too much and finding a bunch of cool interactions I didn't even intend or think about is amazing. Overall my deck may get more or less powerful based on my choices, but that only effects what other decks I can play it against for a good game. However it always gets more fun to play.
I know exactly what you mean on this!! Happens all the time when being a deck creator. I do love the spiral some days, and then other times I need to take a step back.
I’ve been agonizing over my Alandra deck for a week now trying to get it more consistent and making room for the Azami secret lair card. This video is a huge help
Theorizing about decks is cool, but I’ve always found tuning to be more important, as in, rather than trying to build a perfect deck from the getgo, just build a functional deck, then keep in mind various metrics across games and adjust accordingly
@@rileypowell5354 I’m definitely not saying to not play high tide, I’m just saying that without graveyard synergies, it’s a one off haymaker turn that may only spin wheels. I’ve played against a few people who used it and didn’t win outright, and I’ve also seen game where that card enabled the win against three other players who had established board states. True ramp should be repeatable in my mind, and I would put high tide and other ritual effects in a spells matter/synergy slot rather than in a ramp slot while I’m deck building.
I LOVED this video, I felt so seen on such a deep level. Have experienced exactly the same, and specially the part of kinda low-key liking the stress of the decision making process is very relatable to me. - Thanks for this, Joey!
I suffered from this SUPER HARD, and tbh the thing that helped me most is EDHREC, sticking only to the cards I have from the list. My starting lists went from 150-200 cards to roughly 70. Much easier to manage. No cure for those last couple cuts tho… Thank you guys for your hard work!
I adore the structure of this video, really showed the spiral of considerations that can go into such a "simple" process. Thank you Joey for representing all us overyhinkers
Welcome to the club. I have a orzhov lifegain/token deck and I can’t count the number of times I have ALMOST removed a card but after days of thinking about it didn’t find something I felt I could remove.
I always seem to find myself easily able to get a deck down to about 125 cards, and just entirely unsure of how to whittle it down to the necessary and most effective 100. I'm glad to hear that even my seniors in the game experience the same struggles. I hate that we all have to go through it, but as you say, misery loves company :D
I never post on UA-cam, but I feel this video in my little commander soul. Cuts are the worst for me. When I go to brew a deck I collect ever card I have that looks cool or might have some synergy with the deck I am creating. That's the really fun part for me. Then culling needs to occur and I sigh. I have been using the, "which of these bring me the most joy," argument lately like you stated and it has helped a ton! It makes my decks more varied and I get past the part I dislike most. Glad to know people who know what they are doing also undgo analysis paralysis. Cheers buddy!
I find in times like this that getting an outside opinion can be very helpful. Sometimes they can evaluate things more clearly than we can as owners of the deck with emotional attachments to our cards.
Deckbuilding is half the fun Joey! I find playing the deck is the true test, usually 3-4 reps in actual games, and goldfishing in paper or in Moxfield to be helpful in determining what works and what swaps you should make next!
Just foiled out mono white, green and blue infect decks and I feel this. "I can't cut this card. I purchased it in foil." Me 25 cards over decklists with everything in foil... I've been trying to cut cards for a week XD.
When in doubt, I choose cards that I don't play in many other decks. So I'd almost always choose obscure Scry cards over the same rocks and counterspells I have in every other deck.
Hey Joey, great video as always! But for anyone who sees this, I want to add advice for anyone like you or me, as well as building on a point in this video I find my deckbuilding is at its toughest when I'm staring at 107 cards and I need that playable 100. But my opinions aren't perfect. I have strange biases and decision paralysis the same way. So I call a friend. Having a friend to bounce ideas off of, one deck at a time, has been the single most helpful thing in getting my decks not only up to scratch, but cut down to a playable hundred. If you frame it as a dialog between friends and have them throw up confusions or questions about cards, you either defend them and gain a greater understanding of what they're really accomplishing in your deck, or your eyes are opened to a concession that yes, indeed, that can be a cut. It's helped me so much, even with regards to my favorite decks, like Yoshimaru/Reyhan. And one more thing about this, do be respectful of cards they are steadfastly keeping in. No, I *don't* think Venser's Journal is good enough, but she does and that's enough for me to shrug and go... sure. Hope this helps anyone who stumbles upon it!
I think I'd consider synergy and the mana curve: Esior is my default 2-drop, so I'd focus on 3- drop rocks that produce two mana to get Eligeth out on turn 4 reliably: Worn Powerstone, Honor- Worn Shaku, Relic of Legends, Coalition Relic, Palladium Myr, Extraplanar Lens. The handsize rocks are useful, the Sol Ring is broken, the Torque is fun. Do we need more than ten rocks? If we do, add the Signet, the Atlas and the Bauble. I don't see a necessity for even bigger rocks.
17:25 I have felt this in my own Eligeth deck. I HIGHLY suggest the card "Foil" for your deck. The normally brutal alternate casting cost is very close to free with all the card draw in the deck. It also counters any spell type (including creatures). Great video!!!
I would say: Take a leaf from a very good HR strategy: Make small, continuous changes spaced by re-evaluation instead of trying to implement some huge cure-all, cause those rarely work and even when they do they usually create a whole new subset of problems. This way, you get healthy growth. This is the way the real cEDH grinders do it, and it pays dividends in the long run, when you have data from hundreds of games for every iteration of the deck. Through rigorous analysis of a deck's performance, under balanced game conditions, you can usually find what your deck's glaring weaknesses are, and shore those up. For the more minuet upgrades that may add a fraction of a percent to your win rate, and in the casual context, I would generally say "Just don't bother, it's not worth the energy". It's may be a fun mental exercise, but for me personally I could probably have brewed five decks with a lot more resulting enjoyment if I didn't sit there agonizing over whether mana rock A or B is superior to the other.
Very interesting take, Joey. Both the the video discussion and your deck. I might give a try to those partners but with a mill theme rather than combat damage. Now, let’s add more salt inside the wound. What is your opinion on Machine God’s Effigy? I have been considering adding it in many blue decks. First because I do like clone effects in general but also because copying one’s commander as both a mana rock and a non-creature artifact makes it slightly more resilient. Plus if the commander has an expended tap ability (thinking about Araumi, Shorikai…) this ability can be reused right away (assuming enough mana).
This speaks to my soul. I spiral like this when I build new decks too haha hang in there joey, sometimes I just throw stuff in and play test it to see what sticks
I've found that the best method is playing the deck multiple times and whilst doing so noting which cards feel the most clunky or where you typically have the most issues in gameplay. That being said I've also found that early mana rocks to "get off the ground" are by far the most useful, especially if you have a lot of card draw, because then you can draw more 'early mana rocks' and end up with the same equivalent mana output as if you'd played a 'big mana rock' but with way less chance for a clunky first 3 turns. The second best way I've found is putting each card into an ordered list, with your reasoning, and removing the ones in last place, e.g. my order would be: 1-2. Required gameplan, max hand-size rocks: A) Thought Vessel; B) Decanter 3. 1-mv efficiency: Sol Ring 4. 2-mv super efficiency: Sapphire Medallion (30 cards + 2 commanders, if you on average cast >1 spell this reduces per turn, then it is better than any 2-mv rock) 5-6. 2-mv untapped colour: A) Arcane Signet; B) Fellwar Stone (most of the time) 7-10. 2-mv good utility: A) Everflowing Chalice (you forgot this, it scales); B) Mind Stone; C) Liquidmetal Torque 11-12. 2-mv tapped colour: A) Coldsteel Heart; B) Sky Diamond 13-14. 4-mv untapped efficieny: A) Sceptre of Eternal Glory; B) Thran Dynamo 15. Mana doubler: Caged Sun 16. 3-mv tapped efficieny: Worn Powerstone (3-mv tapped is roughly eq to 4-mv untapped and this gives 2, whereas Thran gives 3) 17-20. 3-mv utility: A) Commander's Sphere; B) Mana Geode; C) Bronze Walrus; D) Wayfarer's Bauble (the utility is you can pay in installments, but no multicolour fixing upside) 21. 5-mv efficiency: Gilded Lotus You can justify any card, but some reasoning is better than others. I wouldn't bother with the scry mana rocks for the high probability that they come down before your commander. Similarly for cards like Bane's Contingency I'd estimate the percent likelihood that you'd have your commander on the board when you played this card. e.g. is 1UU counterspell + (50% scry 2 | 50% draw 2) + draw 1, better than another card you're comparing it to?
A good argument against using Bane's contigency would be that it's much harder to keep up enough mana to keep your commander safe in the first place, more often leaving you with a difficult decision of advancing your gameplan or holding up that counterspell. You could even argue that a cheaper counterspell could allow you to 'safely' play your commander in some cases, leaving up enough mana after playing your commander to cast that counterspell as protection during that critical turn. This scenario is much less likely at 3 cmc, you would have to delay your commander too long to make that worth doing, typically anyway. Personally I think the loss of 'tempo' playing a card like this makes it not worth it. If the card straight-up let you scry two and draw that card as long as you have your commander out when you cast it, that would make it good. But given that it's not a guarantee, I'd pass on it, personally. The potential is there, but I don't see it happening often enough for it to matter (just my opinion of course, hard to say for sure without testing it.)
Another fantastic episode Joey! I totally relate on the whole versatility vs tempo debate. I've found for myself as a more aggressive player with an early game focus, finding rocks and cards that provide a great tempo swing. Plus, one thing that helps me is looking at other resources I'll have both at the early and late game. The card Walking Atlas is a terrific example of this in decks looking to draw lots of card, since it fills both an early game ramp card and also gets all those extra lands you'll have out of your hand later on in the game.
I was fixing Elrond Master Healer scry deck yesterday, and so feel this. In my case it was that the deck has a light theme of elves, and had to balance in taking elves out that didn't specifically do things with the deck's larger themes of scrying and counters. It was painful in needing to add things in, and one of the few places was either an in general good LotR elfbthat could do something, or cutting the elves that could produce mana at the start until I put counters on them, or look at any non-creatures that I could take out. Even now thinking I should add Ivy Lane in.
At the mid point of the vid, my cuts would be sapphire medallion, coldsteel heart, bronze walrus, and thran dynamo. And as a side note, maybe even marit lage's slumber for something that may be an easier to pull off win condition.
joey, like a good friend of yours said: "if it doesnt make you giggle put it out" And please lean more into the blue ramp :) Retraced Image is basically a 1 mana put a land into play Energy Tap is a 1 mana tap a creature you controll and get mana out of it High Tide is a 1 mana double your island mana Replication Technique is a 5 mana get two landcopies or if you dont need that a permanent. Spell Swindle and manadrain are mostly the mana burst you need. Those 5/6 will make your deck feel more mono blue and there are still other options out i mean blue is the "think out of the box" color
This video has really shown me how very different Joey's deck building strategy is to mine. In my mono blue deck, it was very easy to find the 7 rocks I ended up putting in the deck. And very rarely does the mana rocks I'm running have any significant impact on what cards I'm running. And to answer what I'd cut from the deck, Bauble, Powerstone, and Arcane Signet.
- Make a game plan, atleast for the first turns Turn1: Land Turn2: Land, ramp Turn3: Esior, ramp Turn4: Commander Turn5: Stabilize/draw cards Turn X: how to win - Make Categories I usually end up with 10 small ramp and 3 big ramp; just by fullfilling the gameplan. If I want to ramp on Turn2 I need enough 2 mana rampspells. There is no way to play a 3 mana ramp spell despite of its upside. It's also easier to find a slot for a small ramp spell later in the game. Big ramp spells (Skyshrouds Claim, Hour of Promise, Song of Titania) have way more effect, but there is just a small place for them. - Playtest Just test how cards perform. There are some cards, that look great in theory but sometimes you just miss a point, why they don't work. For example: Cartographers Hawk in Ephara looks good at first glance: Ramp and recasting the bird means carddraw; However, I want to play Ephara on Turn3 and thats not possible with the Hawk and later in the game, the effect is not strong enough or it gets wiped. If you find out, that your deck has some problems, try to shift cards from categories that work (too) well to cover your weakness.
Thanks for this, Joey! I have given up on having a "final" version of any of my decks. Instead, I'll run across a card that I think could be fun, see if I can slot it in, and just play with it for a while to see if I like it. This takes the pressure off, as I'm not worried about making the perfect swap every time. P.S. Now I have to figure out how to squeeze Esior, Caged Sun, and Phyrexian Metamorph into my Jin Gitaxias deck. Thanks for the ideas! 😛
This video popped up on my front page while I was looking at some decks in Manabox. I bought the March of Machine Commander decks and I've been slowly altering them. The first few were easy. Taking out all the Planar cards and replacing them with alternatives with none of that mechanic attached. I found they had a little too much mana in a play test (Calvary Charge has a card that lets you look at the Top six cards of your library and it was five mana while I was already fine on mana) so taking out a few was easy. Now it's the harder changes. I had up to 20 alternative cards for them and it becomes a question of what to keep. Just agonizing over what will see play and what offers the best bang for my proverbial buck while also moving forward the game state.
Oh my gosh Joey! I just got a scry deck with Eligeth and Kydele last week and have been LOVING it and then you post this. This is the second time you post a vid and we are on the same wavelength (last time it was the familiar deck within a day of each other) :P
Hey Joey, thank you for the video! You're totally right, there are lots of synergies to consider. I found myself mostly picking the sure thing over the situational super duper synergy. If you're planning for your commander being out and doing it's thing all the time, you make yourself extremely vulnerable for single target removal, as it shuts down your whole game plan. That's why I'd consider to use commander's sphere over your favored mana geode, as commanders sphere always draws you a card and mana geode at times will occasionally only be "scry one", when you don't have your commander in play. That said, it all comes down to go with your gut, use the cards you like and especially don't carve your decision into stone. If I'm not certain about a card, I "sideboard" a couple of cards in my edh decks. Meaning, that in case that I find a couple of cards not functioning the way I expected them to be, I have a couple of cards in the same deck box, that I was considering, so I can easily switch between them from game to game without having to re-evaluate the whole deck all over again.
I learned this owning 60 commander decks: use cards that feel amazing in your commander. It's ok if your deck is not optimized, just go with the flow with the jank 😀
Honestly, when it happens, i put the decklist on a side and reconstruct the deck from scratch with the new cards. When you reach the end, it's easier to make the cuts.
i feel this. i started effectively doing merge sort on my cards to figure the top cards that actually end up in my deck, or randomly shuffling all potential cards, and a few go in my deck, the rest in the sideboard for future notice
I relate so much to this hahahaha With time I've come to use a rule of thumb for picking cards: Removal is meant to avoid imminent death, it needs to be as efficient as is can, it's not the time to be greedy on value. Starting cards should be oriented to put the engine online fast and help restore it if disrupted. The engine is where I go ham with unique interactions to feed value to the wincons.
Once again you just hit the nail in the coffin. I want to play a certain strategy but I still can't figure out the right cards. So many excellent choices these days that I kinda wish I could play them all in a single deck.
The minute you mentioned Relic of Legends I fell in love with it over Worn Powerstone. Picture this: Turn 2 commander, turn 3 deploy relic and right here you automatically have 2 extra blue pips to set up yourself even more that turn (either deploying another rock or a scry or draw spell), then you can still do the turn 4 second commander play more reliably *and* you can tap that commander for even more mana to play that scry spell and get more value. I try to include relic of legends in most of my commander decks because it puts in soooooo much work
I've played many games competitively and they all share this in common: in almost every circumstance, jack-of-all-trades cards are a trap, as they do the worst of both (or more) worlds. It's generally better to min-max on your cards by picking cards that each excel in their respective categories, rather than picking cards that are mediocre in all of your categories. Therefore, cutting mana geode, dissolve, and memory drain would be heavily suggested. If you want to rush out your commander, you could swap in Component Pouch, Coalition Relic, and Relic of Legends, as these will up your chances of a turn 4 Eligeth (even sooner if you open with a Sol Ring) after playing Esior on turn 2 and one of said rocks on turn 3, as long as you have a fourth land for turn 4; however you must be wary of the possibility of it being countered. Also, if you fear counterspells, as that's Eligeth's biggest weakpoint, being that the spell doesn't get "ward" from Esior, you may want to consider Spell Pierce and Miscast to ensure it resolves (as they likely won't be able to pay the extra 2-3 mana). I play a nasty one-shot deck with Radiant/Jeska and the largest vulnerability is that 7 drop commander being countered, so I make sure to run all the means to ensure it resolves (like Pyroblast, Red Elemental Blast, and Silence in my case), because just like your duo here, if it's on the board, it's significantly harder to remove. At the end of the day, just make sure the engine runs, so that you can have fun, Joey. Happy gaming!
I had something similar this week with my Heliod, God of the Sun deck. I was simply not happy with how my early game performed and after days of brain-pain-thoughts, I simply came to the decision: Turn 3 Heliod. Period. So in order to do Turn3 4cmc commander, I whipped out the hypergeometric calculator and simply asked myself: How many lands AND how many colored lands do I need in the deck, to rip the 3rd land by turn three and how many 2cmc mana rocks do I need to get out my commander 66% of all my games... Number compiled, cards added to the deck, BAM, solved... (for now)
I saw a video from PVDDR where he was talking about choosing which cards to choose if they are similar, but with slight fringe differences and he he essentially said just choose one. If it's the wrong choice then you'll find out while playing the deck, but making a choice is the first thing, and it doesn't have to be a world altering decision.
yeah! you're trying to make changes to the deck, there's nothing preventing you from making more changes down the line. They're cardboard, not etched in stone.
It literally took me a month to make the cuts when trying to upgrade my bane lord of darkness deck so it would actually do what I wanted it to do, there are just too many good aristocrat cards to choose from
I love deck building and theorizing. My main goal is to have the deck contain cards that bring me joy and cards with linked synergies. I mold those two levels together into a melange. Anything that doesn’t meet one (or both) of those criteria I don’t include it.
I used to have this problem. There are things that helped me: 1. I try not to play staples. I play cards I like. 2. I build decks that don’t need specific cards. I rather pick from a group of cards where it doesn’t matter (reanimator deck or Prismatic Bridge deck are good examples). 3. I always play couple (2-3) of cards that I call „candidates“. These cards are funny in various ways but aren’t necessarily needed for the deck. I usually never take these cards out. Except when I really don’t know what to take out. Then I use these cards. This is for psychological effect. 4. Some of my decks I try to build without mana rocks or ramp (I don't play Sol Ring in any of my decks too). This is an experiment we do in our group and it is possible to build such decks. I play more lands 40+ but I can also play more non-ramp cards. It can be quite difficult to pick a commander for it though. 5. When I don’t know what to swap from a specific category (for example removal) I take out the whole category and I put cards back in one by one. 6. I always start to build a deck with 44 lands. After I build that deck I swap some more cards for lands. This is for psychological effect. This probably helps me the most.
I love playing Walking Atlas and Terrain Generator. Great for mono color decks and decks with a lot of cars draw. Gives a way to put those lands you draw onto the board. Works great in my Shabraz deck and my mono white deck.
Thing that I do is almost always put the new cards I want to put in the deck. And when playtesting notice if this card that I just got in the deck and got in play makes me happier and feels useful more than the previous one.
Awesome video. Im not a fan of mind stone and commanders sphere here. Drawing is good but there is plenty of draw already and blue producers are more important. Also, prognostic sphinx and siani, eye of the storm of fantastic considerations! (From and Elminster player)
And that's what's great about commander, or MTG in general. There are so many cards, so many options, so many different ways to build a deck. Yes, it does make it painful to make cuts, but that's because there IS no correct way. What I've started doing lately to make my decisions easier is to keep the "maybeboard" together. A stack of 5-10 cards that didn't make the final cut into the deck or were recently cut, just to have them handy for when I feel like I need to go back. It makes trial runs and doing "homework" a lot easier.
It's pretty easy to find reasons why you like cards. As you justify the cards, either in your head or out loud, you will become more and more biased towards including those cards. I find it easier to cut cards when I work to clearly articulated why a card should be cut. Some cards will provide reasons cut by themselves if you give them a chance. Just be extra critical during your cut process.
Isn't this the polar opposite of the "strictly better" problem that some people complain about too? Some people don't like when a new card is printed that is just an unqualified upgrade to an existing effect, because of how easy it makes deck upgrading. It wouldn't surprise me if the same people who tear their hair out over small changes are also those who are bored by the idea of the whole process being simplified by the printing of better cards (even if it does mean they get to keep their hair).
I also struggle with making cuts to my decks. My muldrotha has easily cost me 30 hours of my life just staring at it laid out on the table. I have a numot superfriends list that also plays gilded lotus in it and due to curve, it feels stronger with it than without
I foolishly came here thinking you would have some brilliant procedure for cutting cards in some big brain way I never considered before
I find that cutting/replacing cards in a commander deck is one of the most excrutiatingly difficult things to do.
It's the worst if you find that you need to up your removal. Kissing synergy pieces goodbye for generic removal just sucks
@@mofomiko and its even better when the synergy pieces are also removal. A lot of cards fulfil two purposes and often better than mana efficiency on a spell.
@@luketargett2233 that's mostly black and white privilege talking, maybe blue with some bounce effects. For a lot of stuff synergy bundled with removal is simply not an option
I just spent like 2 weeks just to make some cuts in my soul of windgrace deck. Keep going back and forth about so many cards. It's tough
i feek you freeeeeemd!
Decide to cut a card, have existential crisis.
Have creative epiphany while having existential crisis.
Write script about existential crisis, relapsing into previously said existential crisis.
Hope people watch video on existential crisis, identifying with own existential crisis AND relapse into their previous existential crises.
....I had an aneurysm writing this comment.
Great work, Joey!
I like the Kondo Test when figuring out which cards to keep and which to cut... When you draw the card in question, how often and how much joy does it spark? Playing the deck and feeling the play patterns will tell you which cards to keep. Also asking yourself, "Which card do I wish I had drawn?" Is going to help with that. Because we often imagine scenarios that never really happen or don't survive contact with out opponents' decks
This video speaks to me on a profound level, the amount of hours I spend toiling over how I'm gonna fit that new cool value piece, or that removal that would work so well. The genuine stress that goes into it, but also the fact that even with all thay stress, I love that aspect of the game.
Awesome video, Joey!
Feel ya, just took me a over week to make the final cuts to get my two new decks down to 100. Pondering every line, synergy, curve, land count and pet cards over and over . Just finish 15 min ago, then this vid went up. Watching it while sleeving them up.
I can definitely relate to this! I've reached that "every card is so good, but I need to cut something" point with several decks. Sometimes I can reach a cut, or at least a trial run, but a lot of times I end up taking the whole deck apart and starting from scratch. It helps me to avoid the trap of thinking it's impossible to remove that one specific card.
I like that idea!
I also use this strategy to escape the illusion that every card is necessary.
"The first draft of everything is crap." This applies to decks, too. Once I've built a deck I'll play it a few times and then rebuild it. You can usually find at least a dozen cards you would never have added in the first place now you know what the deck is actually like.
wise man once said: do not put bad cards to make your good cards better.
Thanks North 100
Unless that bad card is a combo that wins the game with a good card
The only reason I play good cards is to make my bad cards better.
But isn’t that basically that the main point of the deck
I have a combo deck built opposite to this premise
Thank you for normalizing my neuroticism while making the final cuts. My moxfield account is full of incomplete concept decklists, and with tax money coming in I had to force myself to sit down and finish four of them the other night. Going over the dozens of potential synergies that I was weighing against each other nearly drove me mad. I think your video did more to help with my mental health than it did with my deck building processes, and I thank you for that! 😂
This video explains the decision paralysis I’ve had for about a year now when it comes to building new commander decks or tuning up my old ones. The amount of new cards has actually helped stifle my EDH creativity. I appreciate the “just send it” vibe at the end of the video, though.
these solo videos you're making joey are the best magic videos on youtube, please keep it up :)
Such an honor meeting you at Mox Boarding House! Thank you for taking time out of your day to talk with my friend and I! Keep up the great content!
Thanks for saying hi! :)
I have the same problem with my decks ... Every card seems necessary and I use the following trick for cutting cards:
Build the entire deck from scratch and at first put the new card in. You will also consider way more cards for cutting.
"All I learned is that...abysses are stupid!!"
Lol. Got me.
Sometimes when the choice is hard between two great cards the difference between them is probably more negligible than you expect in practice. Hard to catch that when in the weeds of optimizing but it’s good to take a step back.
I relate to this on a spiritual level. Synergies get so tight that it's really hard to make cuts.
I love your chaotic energy in this video, Joey. It's great to see someone put these through processes - spirals of madness - into words. I saw this first with the idea of "why science is fun and how it works" in the Years of Rice and Salt (novel). It's also good to know that I'm not the only one who goes this insane :) Incidentally, this decision paralysis is part of why I finally got rid of my collection and most of my deck - too many years of this stuff, it's exhausting.
First... Thanks for your call for empathy and civility. I completely agree that the world would be better if we gave each other more space and grace in hopes to make better dialogue. I wish you the best.
Second... In situations like this, sometimes it helps to go back to the fundamentals. What is the theme of the deck? What is the strategy for winning? What do you need to make the strategy work? Are there a couple (one to three) synergies that make this work better?
After that, you can see what cards fit into that clear path. Just go through and see what fits and what doesn't. Look for both efficiency and synergy.
To be honest, it sounds like your deck has a lot of synergies that was making it harder to come to decision.
This made me realize I need LiquiMetal Torque in my Emiel deck that lays waste to artifacts and enchantments
This is like me builing any deck nowadays. Synergy makes deckbuilding so much harder.
Loves the video! Thank you Joey for taking us on this journey.
Joey I enjoyed this venting session, and I find this and you very relatable. Your videos are helping me become a better deck builder. Thank you
One thing that helps me in situations like this is asking the question, "Which of these cards can I play in other decks?" So for instance with your Mana Rocks, you're probably not going to be playing the Scrying Rocks in other decks. Whereas a Mindstone and Commander's Sphere will. So for that reason, I would cut the later two. I've played them. I know they are good. I want to see other cards shine in a deck. And with that, you have two easy cuts. Are they the best cuts in terms of optimization? Who cares? Is this cEDH? No, we just are simply making a fun deck and I think it's more fun if I cast a card I wouldn't otherwise cast. Hope this helps in the future. Would love to see some cards get added in your Upping the Average series with this in mind. Highlight some of those niche cards.
First, I would like to say kudos for getting me to break my silence. I never comment on videos. Ever.
Second, the reason I did break my silence is because I see a lot of people have this problem. And as a problem I used to have but no longer do I will share how I changed my thought process around deckbuilding. The big change I made was in how I evaluate cards.
I no longer evaluate cards in any kind of way relating to theoretical synergy, power level, or fantasy. I ONLY evaluate cards by what level of happiness they bring me when I am actually playing, whether it be with friends of just goldfishing. By doing this it becomes very apparent very quickly which cards just don't do it for me in a real, non theoretical sense and I can cut them. Then I can run a permutation of the deck with the new cards and see if my level of satisfaction overall when I play them is greater or less than before. Now you may think "Doesn't that mean you'll just cut "veggie" cards or lands?" And the answer is no. I am happy when my decks rune smoothly, and they don't run smoothly without those cards so I am happy to see them.
Another benefit of evaluating cards this way is I get to rediscover my own deck. Playing a cool new card I put in because it was fun without thinking too much and finding a bunch of cool interactions I didn't even intend or think about is amazing. Overall my deck may get more or less powerful based on my choices, but that only effects what other decks I can play it against for a good game. However it always gets more fun to play.
I know exactly what you mean on this!! Happens all the time when being a deck creator. I do love the spiral some days, and then other times I need to take a step back.
Joey, you are an absolutely delight!
I’ve been agonizing over my Alandra deck for a week now trying to get it more consistent and making room for the Azami secret lair card. This video is a huge help
Theorizing about decks is cool, but I’ve always found tuning to be more important, as in, rather than trying to build a perfect deck from the getgo, just build a functional deck, then keep in mind various metrics across games and adjust accordingly
I rarely consider big mana rocks without synergy, and a powerful mana sink.
Having a fat hand and built in card draw in a mana sink by itself
Getting anxiety flashbacks to my endless tormenting brewing sessions. It's a plague XDD
I like where this video went. Especially the part about talking with other Magic players online.
If you like worn powerstone, coalition relic can also get you 6 mana on turn 4
And it can double fix colored mana
I mean in the context of this deck, so can High tide and that card is way better than coalition relic
@@rileypowell5354 but is less repeatable
@@Gloryofthereef you're making 6 Mana for 1 Mana with no other setup other than "play a mono blue deck", how many times do you need to repeat that
@@rileypowell5354 I’m definitely not saying to not play high tide, I’m just saying that without graveyard synergies, it’s a one off haymaker turn that may only spin wheels. I’ve played against a few people who used it and didn’t win outright, and I’ve also seen game where that card enabled the win against three other players who had established board states. True ramp should be repeatable in my mind, and I would put high tide and other ritual effects in a spells matter/synergy slot rather than in a ramp slot while I’m deck building.
I LOVED this video, I felt so seen on such a deep level. Have experienced exactly the same, and specially the part of kinda low-key liking the stress of the decision making process is very relatable to me. - Thanks for this, Joey!
I suffered from this SUPER HARD, and tbh the thing that helped me most is EDHREC, sticking only to the cards I have from the list. My starting lists went from 150-200 cards to roughly 70. Much easier to manage. No cure for those last couple cuts tho… Thank you guys for your hard work!
I adore the structure of this video, really showed the spiral of considerations that can go into such a "simple" process. Thank you Joey for representing all us overyhinkers
Welcome to the club. I have a orzhov lifegain/token deck and I can’t count the number of times I have ALMOST removed a card but after days of thinking about it didn’t find something I felt I could remove.
Great vid, hits home for most brewers out there
Joey, I can't believe you cut that one card...
Whoa, I played a guy at MagicCon Philly running a deck just like this.
I always seem to find myself easily able to get a deck down to about 125 cards, and just entirely unsure of how to whittle it down to the necessary and most effective 100. I'm glad to hear that even my seniors in the game experience the same struggles. I hate that we all have to go through it, but as you say, misery loves company :D
I don't feel alone anymore staring at my decklists and pondering. Thank you for voicing how hard it can be.
I never post on UA-cam, but I feel this video in my little commander soul. Cuts are the worst for me. When I go to brew a deck I collect ever card I have that looks cool or might have some synergy with the deck I am creating. That's the really fun part for me. Then culling needs to occur and I sigh. I have been using the, "which of these bring me the most joy," argument lately like you stated and it has helped a ton! It makes my decks more varied and I get past the part I dislike most. Glad to know people who know what they are doing also undgo analysis paralysis. Cheers buddy!
I find in times like this that getting an outside opinion can be very helpful. Sometimes they can evaluate things more clearly than we can as owners of the deck with emotional attachments to our cards.
Deckbuilding is half the fun Joey! I find playing the deck is the true test, usually 3-4 reps in actual games, and goldfishing in paper or in Moxfield to be helpful in determining what works and what swaps you should make next!
100% feel your pain on this!!!
Just foiled out mono white, green and blue infect decks and I feel this.
"I can't cut this card. I purchased it in foil."
Me 25 cards over decklists with everything in foil...
I've been trying to cut cards for a week XD.
When in doubt, I choose cards that I don't play in many other decks. So I'd almost always choose obscure Scry cards over the same rocks and counterspells I have in every other deck.
Aw yes, I have the same reactions anytime I look into updating a deck. 🤣 pure chaos.
Currently trying to cut something from my pile of 101 cards. This is way too relatable.
Hey Joey, great video as always! But for anyone who sees this, I want to add advice for anyone like you or me, as well as building on a point in this video
I find my deckbuilding is at its toughest when I'm staring at 107 cards and I need that playable 100. But my opinions aren't perfect. I have strange biases and decision paralysis the same way. So I call a friend.
Having a friend to bounce ideas off of, one deck at a time, has been the single most helpful thing in getting my decks not only up to scratch, but cut down to a playable hundred. If you frame it as a dialog between friends and have them throw up confusions or questions about cards, you either defend them and gain a greater understanding of what they're really accomplishing in your deck, or your eyes are opened to a concession that yes, indeed, that can be a cut. It's helped me so much, even with regards to my favorite decks, like Yoshimaru/Reyhan.
And one more thing about this, do be respectful of cards they are steadfastly keeping in. No, I *don't* think Venser's Journal is good enough, but she does and that's enough for me to shrug and go... sure.
Hope this helps anyone who stumbles upon it!
I think I'd consider synergy and the mana curve: Esior is my default 2-drop, so I'd focus on 3- drop rocks that produce two mana to get Eligeth out on turn 4 reliably: Worn Powerstone, Honor- Worn Shaku, Relic of Legends, Coalition Relic, Palladium Myr, Extraplanar Lens. The handsize rocks are useful, the Sol Ring is broken, the Torque is fun. Do we need more than ten rocks? If we do, add the Signet, the Atlas and the Bauble. I don't see a necessity for even bigger rocks.
17:25 I have felt this in my own Eligeth deck. I HIGHLY suggest the card "Foil" for your deck. The normally brutal alternate casting cost is very close to free with all the card draw in the deck. It also counters any spell type (including creatures).
Great video!!!
OH I almost forgot. Best of all, it's also SUPER budget compared to all of the other free countermagic.
Great video Joey. I can promise you, there are at least two of us with this problem:D
Okay the fast talking ramble was giving me anxiety while I was driving 😂
I would say: Take a leaf from a very good HR strategy: Make small, continuous changes spaced by re-evaluation instead of trying to implement some huge cure-all, cause those rarely work and even when they do they usually create a whole new subset of problems. This way, you get healthy growth. This is the way the real cEDH grinders do it, and it pays dividends in the long run, when you have data from hundreds of games for every iteration of the deck.
Through rigorous analysis of a deck's performance, under balanced game conditions, you can usually find what your deck's glaring weaknesses are, and shore those up.
For the more minuet upgrades that may add a fraction of a percent to your win rate, and in the casual context, I would generally say "Just don't bother, it's not worth the energy". It's may be a fun mental exercise, but for me personally I could probably have brewed five decks with a lot more resulting enjoyment if I didn't sit there agonizing over whether mana rock A or B is superior to the other.
This exact problem is why I don't have a maybe board for any of my decks. The problem would never end between all 8 of them.
Descent into madness.... I know the feeling.
Very interesting take, Joey. Both the the video discussion and your deck. I might give a try to those partners but with a mill theme rather than combat damage.
Now, let’s add more salt inside the wound. What is your opinion on Machine God’s Effigy? I have been considering adding it in many blue decks. First because I do like clone effects in general but also because copying one’s commander as both a mana rock and a non-creature artifact makes it slightly more resilient. Plus if the commander has an expended tap ability (thinking about Araumi, Shorikai…) this ability can be reused right away (assuming enough mana).
This speaks to my soul. I spiral like this when I build new decks too haha hang in there joey, sometimes I just throw stuff in and play test it to see what sticks
I've found that the best method is playing the deck multiple times and whilst doing so noting which cards feel the most clunky or where you typically have the most issues in gameplay.
That being said I've also found that early mana rocks to "get off the ground" are by far the most useful, especially if you have a lot of card draw, because then you can draw more 'early mana rocks' and end up with the same equivalent mana output as if you'd played a 'big mana rock' but with way less chance for a clunky first 3 turns.
The second best way I've found is putting each card into an ordered list, with your reasoning, and removing the ones in last place, e.g. my order would be:
1-2. Required gameplan, max hand-size rocks: A) Thought Vessel; B) Decanter
3. 1-mv efficiency: Sol Ring
4. 2-mv super efficiency: Sapphire Medallion (30 cards + 2 commanders, if you on average cast >1 spell this reduces per turn, then it is better than any 2-mv rock)
5-6. 2-mv untapped colour: A) Arcane Signet; B) Fellwar Stone (most of the time)
7-10. 2-mv good utility: A) Everflowing Chalice (you forgot this, it scales); B) Mind Stone; C) Liquidmetal Torque
11-12. 2-mv tapped colour: A) Coldsteel Heart; B) Sky Diamond
13-14. 4-mv untapped efficieny: A) Sceptre of Eternal Glory; B) Thran Dynamo
15. Mana doubler: Caged Sun
16. 3-mv tapped efficieny: Worn Powerstone (3-mv tapped is roughly eq to 4-mv untapped and this gives 2, whereas Thran gives 3)
17-20. 3-mv utility: A) Commander's Sphere; B) Mana Geode; C) Bronze Walrus; D) Wayfarer's Bauble (the utility is you can pay in installments, but no multicolour fixing upside)
21. 5-mv efficiency: Gilded Lotus
You can justify any card, but some reasoning is better than others.
I wouldn't bother with the scry mana rocks for the high probability that they come down before your commander. Similarly for cards like Bane's Contingency I'd estimate the percent likelihood that you'd have your commander on the board when you played this card. e.g. is 1UU counterspell + (50% scry 2 | 50% draw 2) + draw 1, better than another card you're comparing it to?
A good argument against using Bane's contigency would be that it's much harder to keep up enough mana to keep your commander safe in the first place, more often leaving you with a difficult decision of advancing your gameplan or holding up that counterspell.
You could even argue that a cheaper counterspell could allow you to 'safely' play your commander in some cases, leaving up enough mana after playing your commander to cast that counterspell as protection during that critical turn.
This scenario is much less likely at 3 cmc, you would have to delay your commander too long to make that worth doing, typically anyway.
Personally I think the loss of 'tempo' playing a card like this makes it not worth it. If the card straight-up let you scry two and draw that card as long as you have your commander out when you cast it, that would make it good. But given that it's not a guarantee, I'd pass on it, personally. The potential is there, but I don't see it happening often enough for it to matter (just my opinion of course, hard to say for sure without testing it.)
Making cuts is something that I find easy. Sometimes I am a bit sad when I buy cards then don’t use them but that’s just part of deck building
Another fantastic episode Joey! I totally relate on the whole versatility vs tempo debate. I've found for myself as a more aggressive player with an early game focus, finding rocks and cards that provide a great tempo swing. Plus, one thing that helps me is looking at other resources I'll have both at the early and late game. The card Walking Atlas is a terrific example of this in decks looking to draw lots of card, since it fills both an early game ramp card and also gets all those extra lands you'll have out of your hand later on in the game.
I was fixing Elrond Master Healer scry deck yesterday, and so feel this. In my case it was that the deck has a light theme of elves, and had to balance in taking elves out that didn't specifically do things with the deck's larger themes of scrying and counters. It was painful in needing to add things in, and one of the few places was either an in general good LotR elfbthat could do something, or cutting the elves that could produce mana at the start until I put counters on them, or look at any non-creatures that I could take out. Even now thinking I should add Ivy Lane in.
At the mid point of the vid, my cuts would be sapphire medallion, coldsteel heart, bronze walrus, and thran dynamo. And as a side note, maybe even marit lage's slumber for something that may be an easier to pull off win condition.
joey, like a good friend of yours said: "if it doesnt make you giggle put it out"
And please lean more into the blue ramp :)
Retraced Image is basically a 1 mana put a land into play
Energy Tap is a 1 mana tap a creature you controll and get mana out of it
High Tide is a 1 mana double your island mana
Replication Technique is a 5 mana get two landcopies or if you dont need that a permanent.
Spell Swindle and manadrain are mostly the mana burst you need.
Those 5/6 will make your deck feel more mono blue and there are still other options out i mean blue is the "think out of the box" color
This video has really shown me how very different Joey's deck building strategy is to mine. In my mono blue deck, it was very easy to find the 7 rocks I ended up putting in the deck. And very rarely does the mana rocks I'm running have any significant impact on what cards I'm running. And to answer what I'd cut from the deck, Bauble, Powerstone, and Arcane Signet.
- Make a game plan, atleast for the first turns
Turn1: Land
Turn2: Land, ramp
Turn3: Esior, ramp
Turn4: Commander
Turn5: Stabilize/draw cards
Turn X: how to win
- Make Categories
I usually end up with 10 small ramp and 3 big ramp; just by fullfilling the gameplan. If I want to ramp on Turn2 I need enough 2 mana rampspells. There is no way to play a 3 mana ramp spell despite of its upside. It's also easier to find a slot for a small ramp spell later in the game. Big ramp spells (Skyshrouds Claim, Hour of Promise, Song of Titania) have way more effect, but there is just a small place for them.
- Playtest
Just test how cards perform. There are some cards, that look great in theory but sometimes you just miss a point, why they don't work.
For example: Cartographers Hawk in Ephara looks good at first glance: Ramp and recasting the bird means carddraw; However, I want to play Ephara on Turn3 and thats not possible with the Hawk and later in the game, the effect is not strong enough or it gets wiped.
If you find out, that your deck has some problems, try to shift cards from categories that work (too) well to cover your weakness.
Thanks for this, Joey! I have given up on having a "final" version of any of my decks. Instead, I'll run across a card that I think could be fun, see if I can slot it in, and just play with it for a while to see if I like it. This takes the pressure off, as I'm not worried about making the perfect swap every time.
P.S. Now I have to figure out how to squeeze Esior, Caged Sun, and Phyrexian Metamorph into my Jin Gitaxias deck. Thanks for the ideas! 😛
This video popped up on my front page while I was looking at some decks in Manabox. I bought the March of Machine Commander decks and I've been slowly altering them. The first few were easy. Taking out all the Planar cards and replacing them with alternatives with none of that mechanic attached. I found they had a little too much mana in a play test (Calvary Charge has a card that lets you look at the Top six cards of your library and it was five mana while I was already fine on mana) so taking out a few was easy.
Now it's the harder changes. I had up to 20 alternative cards for them and it becomes a question of what to keep. Just agonizing over what will see play and what offers the best bang for my proverbial buck while also moving forward the game state.
Oh my gosh Joey! I just got a scry deck with Eligeth and Kydele last week and have been LOVING it and then you post this. This is the second time you post a vid and we are on the same wavelength (last time it was the familiar deck within a day of each other) :P
My ADHD is hyperventilating. I feel this.
Hey Joey, thank you for the video! You're totally right, there are lots of synergies to consider. I found myself mostly picking the sure thing over the situational super duper synergy. If you're planning for your commander being out and doing it's thing all the time, you make yourself extremely vulnerable for single target removal, as it shuts down your whole game plan.
That's why I'd consider to use commander's sphere over your favored mana geode, as commanders sphere always draws you a card and mana geode at times will occasionally only be "scry one", when you don't have your commander in play.
That said, it all comes down to go with your gut, use the cards you like and especially don't carve your decision into stone. If I'm not certain about a card, I "sideboard" a couple of cards in my edh decks. Meaning, that in case that I find a couple of cards not functioning the way I expected them to be, I have a couple of cards in the same deck box, that I was considering, so I can easily switch between them from game to game without having to re-evaluate the whole deck all over again.
Sir I feel attacked and that I'm you and in this video. Thank you for making this video
I learned this owning 60 commander decks: use cards that feel amazing in your commander. It's ok if your deck is not optimized, just go with the flow with the jank 😀
Honestly, when it happens, i put the decklist on a side and reconstruct the deck from scratch with the new cards. When you reach the end, it's easier to make the cuts.
I'm halfway through and this is giving me an existential crisis too. I spend too much time on the last cuts when I'm building new decks too...
i feel this. i started effectively doing merge sort on my cards to figure the top cards that actually end up in my deck, or randomly shuffling all potential cards, and a few go in my deck, the rest in the sideboard for future notice
I relate so much to this hahahaha
With time I've come to use a rule of thumb for picking cards:
Removal is meant to avoid imminent death, it needs to be as efficient as is can, it's not the time to be greedy on value.
Starting cards should be oriented to put the engine online fast and help restore it if disrupted.
The engine is where I go ham with unique interactions to feed value to the wincons.
15 minutes into this video, Joey is spiraling and I’m just screaming to put in doubling cube and not worry about how good the deck is
Once again you just hit the nail in the coffin. I want to play a certain strategy but I still can't figure out the right cards. So many excellent choices these days that I kinda wish I could play them all in a single deck.
The minute you mentioned Relic of Legends I fell in love with it over Worn Powerstone. Picture this: Turn 2 commander, turn 3 deploy relic and right here you automatically have 2 extra blue pips to set up yourself even more that turn (either deploying another rock or a scry or draw spell), then you can still do the turn 4 second commander play more reliably *and* you can tap that commander for even more mana to play that scry spell and get more value. I try to include relic of legends in most of my commander decks because it puts in soooooo much work
I've played many games competitively and they all share this in common: in almost every circumstance, jack-of-all-trades cards are a trap, as they do the worst of both (or more) worlds. It's generally better to min-max on your cards by picking cards that each excel in their respective categories, rather than picking cards that are mediocre in all of your categories. Therefore, cutting mana geode, dissolve, and memory drain would be heavily suggested.
If you want to rush out your commander, you could swap in Component Pouch, Coalition Relic, and Relic of Legends, as these will up your chances of a turn 4 Eligeth (even sooner if you open with a Sol Ring) after playing Esior on turn 2 and one of said rocks on turn 3, as long as you have a fourth land for turn 4; however you must be wary of the possibility of it being countered. Also, if you fear counterspells, as that's Eligeth's biggest weakpoint, being that the spell doesn't get "ward" from Esior, you may want to consider Spell Pierce and Miscast to ensure it resolves (as they likely won't be able to pay the extra 2-3 mana). I play a nasty one-shot deck with Radiant/Jeska and the largest vulnerability is that 7 drop commander being countered, so I make sure to run all the means to ensure it resolves (like Pyroblast, Red Elemental Blast, and Silence in my case), because just like your duo here, if it's on the board, it's significantly harder to remove.
At the end of the day, just make sure the engine runs, so that you can have fun, Joey. Happy gaming!
I feel like this is what decking out feels like, in the game you draw till you can’t and lose, irl you lose your sanity and fall apart, very monoblue!
I had something similar this week with my Heliod, God of the Sun deck. I was simply not happy with how my early game performed and after days of brain-pain-thoughts, I simply came to the decision: Turn 3 Heliod. Period. So in order to do Turn3 4cmc commander, I whipped out the hypergeometric calculator and simply asked myself:
How many lands AND how many colored lands do I need in the deck, to rip the 3rd land by turn three and how many 2cmc mana rocks do I need to get out my commander 66% of all my games...
Number compiled, cards added to the deck, BAM, solved... (for now)
I saw a video from PVDDR where he was talking about choosing which cards to choose if they are similar, but with slight fringe differences and he he essentially said just choose one. If it's the wrong choice then you'll find out while playing the deck, but making a choice is the first thing, and it doesn't have to be a world altering decision.
yeah! you're trying to make changes to the deck, there's nothing preventing you from making more changes down the line. They're cardboard, not etched in stone.
It literally took me a month to make the cuts when trying to upgrade my bane lord of darkness deck so it would actually do what I wanted it to do, there are just too many good aristocrat cards to choose from
I love deck building and theorizing. My main goal is to have the deck contain cards that bring me joy and cards with linked synergies. I mold those two levels together into a melange. Anything that doesn’t meet one (or both) of those criteria I don’t include it.
I used to have this problem. There are things that helped me:
1. I try not to play staples. I play cards I like.
2. I build decks that don’t need specific cards. I rather pick from a group of cards where it doesn’t matter (reanimator deck or Prismatic Bridge deck are good examples).
3. I always play couple (2-3) of cards that I call „candidates“. These cards are funny in various ways but aren’t necessarily needed for the deck. I usually never take these cards out. Except when I really don’t know what to take out. Then I use these cards. This is for psychological effect.
4. Some of my decks I try to build without mana rocks or ramp (I don't play Sol Ring in any of my decks too). This is an experiment we do in our group and it is possible to build such decks. I play more lands 40+ but I can also play more non-ramp cards. It can be quite difficult to pick a commander for it though.
5. When I don’t know what to swap from a specific category (for example removal) I take out the whole category and I put cards back in one by one.
6. I always start to build a deck with 44 lands. After I build that deck I swap some more cards for lands. This is for psychological effect. This probably helps me the most.
Have a go with something, keep the rest in a sideboard. The only way to figure this stuff is to just try stuff out. Loved the video. Good luck!!!
Great video, it reminds me of my every day life.
I love playing Walking Atlas and Terrain Generator. Great for mono color decks and decks with a lot of cars draw. Gives a way to put those lands you draw onto the board. Works great in my Shabraz deck and my mono white deck.
Thing that I do is almost always put the new cards I want to put in the deck. And when playtesting notice if this card that I just got in the deck and got in play makes me happier and feels useful more than the previous one.
My man making an 30minute video in a 5second decision. Anything 3+ gone without hesitation.
Joey, I feel this man, you are my spirit human 😂
Awesome video. Im not a fan of mind stone and commanders sphere here. Drawing is good but there is plenty of draw already and blue producers are more important. Also, prognostic sphinx and siani, eye of the storm of fantastic considerations! (From and Elminster player)
And that's what's great about commander, or MTG in general. There are so many cards, so many options, so many different ways to build a deck. Yes, it does make it painful to make cuts, but that's because there IS no correct way.
What I've started doing lately to make my decisions easier is to keep the "maybeboard" together. A stack of 5-10 cards that didn't make the final cut into the deck or were recently cut, just to have them handy for when I feel like I need to go back. It makes trial runs and doing "homework" a lot easier.
It's pretty easy to find reasons why you like cards. As you justify the cards, either in your head or out loud, you will become more and more biased towards including those cards. I find it easier to cut cards when I work to clearly articulated why a card should be cut. Some cards will provide reasons cut by themselves if you give them a chance. Just be extra critical during your cut process.
"Knowledge is pawah"
~Petyr Baelish, Game of thrones~
"Got it"
~Joey, holding empyrial plate and 40 other cards in hand~
As somebody with a budget Eligeth/Siani deck that's due some upgrades, I get the feeling in having these internal conversations very soon in my future
Isn't this the polar opposite of the "strictly better" problem that some people complain about too? Some people don't like when a new card is printed that is just an unqualified upgrade to an existing effect, because of how easy it makes deck upgrading. It wouldn't surprise me if the same people who tear their hair out over small changes are also those who are bored by the idea of the whole process being simplified by the printing of better cards (even if it does mean they get to keep their hair).
I also struggle with making cuts to my decks. My muldrotha has easily cost me 30 hours of my life just staring at it laid out on the table. I have a numot superfriends list that also plays gilded lotus in it and due to curve, it feels stronger with it than without