Want to preface for people who don’t watch the whole video, this is not a “hit piece” on HIT. But just sharing perspectives many have found within the community. What might seem as highlighting the negatives, we are actually encouraging individuals to experiment with high intensity principles, while still examining their own individual interests and abilities for their overall programming.
HIT is not a “cult,” it’s literally just 4 principles: (1) train as hard as possible, (2) don’t train for too long at the expense of #1, (3) don’t train too frequently, again at the expense of #1, (4) lift and lower the weight with control so you don’t injure yourself. I really don’t see how anyone can MAXIMIZE gains if they don’t follow these. You’d either be wasting time ie overtraining/overreaching by ignoring 1-3, or you injure yourself by ignoring 4.
"I really don’t see how anyone can MAXIMIZE gains if they don’t follow these." explains perfectly why people refer to people who preach HIT as 'cult' as they preach its the only way to maximise gains and everything else is some type of scam (lol) or useless
Me to. At 70yrs am the oldest OG under the barbell at the Local YMCA. HIT incredible, his point is well taken on becoming cultist. Stay strong. Do you do any cardio? I love swimming and cycling.🏊🏻🏋♂️☄️
I personally feel that perspective has a lot to do with how someone may view or analyze a topic matter. Keep in mind that perspective is subjective and not objective. Dan John is a Strength and Conditioning Coach. HIT guys,(myself included),are interested in esthetics and maybe health. We usually aren't attempting a 200kg Snatch.
For sure, great comment. Something that Dan John and other strength coaches stress is that whether it's sport or daily life, if you got stronger, you should see that manifest in those other areas. I can't speak for everyone, but I sometimes hear various perspectives (even from the HIT guru's) themselves on the benefits and rational for using HIT. I won't say the person's name, but I heard personally from someone is high up there who basically told me HIT is for people that just want efficiency in there training or the least effective dose, but it's not ideal for maximizing performance.
Regarding how everything works for 6 weeks... 6 weeks is about when you need to take a break. If you keep going, you'll burn out! My cycles were about 8 weeks on and about 2-4 off.
I have started building layoffs of usually 2 weeks long every 8-12 weeks. (Usually every 8 weeks.) That works out to about 16-20 workouts before taking a layoff as I train every 4 days using a push/legs/pull/legs Heavy Duty style methodology.
"...encouraging individuals to experiment with high intensity principles, while still examining their own individual interests and abilities for their overall programming." - Exactly!!! Varying training, over long macro/mega cycles, is the way to go. No matter what type of intense training, one must soon change it up. "A change has to come." - Again, exactly. The great thing about bodybuilding is the wide array of choices available. Different styles of training are part of the huge collection of tools, all for the bodybuilder's toolbox. Varying training, via periodization, is also better for overall health.
Read the research by Chris Beardsley His research does tend to support the idea of brief, intense workouts with just 2-3 sets. However, it is possible to train more frequently than many in the HIT community would have you believe.
Lots of lifting cults out there… as someone who first got in to serious lifting through Starting Strength, this discussion immediately made me think of Rippetoe and his disciples.
For sure. I say that with respect to the great Mr. Rippetoe who I visited over in Wichita Falls. To their credit, I will say they will occasionally stress that it's called "Starting Strength" for a reason. That for the context of a beginner lifter seeking to get strong, their path can be a great solid path to those goals.
i hate cults, i've been logging my workouts for a couple years now and my preferred method is 5x5 but my joints start to hurt. i love hiit for recovering but i only do hiit with super high reps. 1 set to failure per exercise. its a very good program to recover if you've gonna too heavy for too long. my elbows and knees are almost 100% now and i'm ready to go back to 5x5 or maybe try matt venas high frequency split. just log your workouts and give other programs a shot. the longer you workout the more open you are.
@@johnlinsky19 HIT is a great program to BUILD not something you do to recover from "real" workouts LOL! How great could these workouts be if they're injuring you?!
Really enjoyed this chat. I just turned 60 this year and remember the days of dead lifting 650 but had no interest in competing my weakness was bench at 26 0. However with weight restrictions from a cardiologist will do a single one leg press at 260 once in while just to check out what I still can do, he would have a heart attack. John Heart knows his stuff. People need to adjust their training cycle over 6-12 weeks. There are plenty of apps out there that can help people do this.
I look at it this way, if you are capable of benchpressing say 500lb just once a fortnight for one set with good form there is no two ways about it you will definately have a strong well developed chest and rest pause is an excellent method. Things breakdown because people believe every bodypart needs to be trained each week, the whole body should be split up over a fortnight not a week. What do other people think.
The dorian yates method is most optimal..one top set per exercise after warm ups is ideal. If you are doing multiple work sets of an exercise you are holding back and not gaining anything
Sloppy sets more weight than you can handle and get your training partner to do forced reps when you haven’t even hit failure yet. It sure is optimally retarded.
Wizzdummheadly . I found I get rhe best results by following yates approach. Eg chest I started with 1 super set set both to failure pec dec / chest . Every 14 days , got no results . Then did the same every 7 days , got no results. Then switched to yates one failure set incline bench, 1 failure set flat bench , 1 failure set pec dec once per week,, and got some gains . Then switched to yates program once every 4 days , with every 4th day rest . And that got me , my best gains for me. So for me that is optimal, for other people maybe less frequency is optimal but for me 6 failure sets every 8 days is optimal. Now I'm only taking each failure set to slightly beyond failure ie to make absolutely sure I'm reached failure I keep going until I'm forced to do 1 to 2 partial reps . I'm not going way beyond failure using forced reps or drop.sets or rest pause . I do use rest pause for belt sqauts for quads and for quads I only do 4 sets oer 8 days not 6 like every muscle group
@@iang8169 So you are training body-parts-exercises twice every 8 days then?! Good luck to you if so because with the intensity that I train with I wouldn't & could never hit exercises-body-parts, more often than every 7-10 days.
At 15:16 David Shaw is mentioned, but picture shown is of strongman Brian Shaw. Which one is the correct one? :) Edit: OK, just saw the other picture at 26:15.
Maybe when it “stops working” you just need to reduce your training frequency? To match what you can recover from when changing the techniques and/or the number of exercises. If you’re training “harder” then you couldn’t handle as much of it and the frequency could’ve become too frequent for that technique. Personally I just train to mmf postive failure and only if the set or exercise didn’t feel right, I’ll do a short dropset maybe. Should be plenty for stimulating muscle
HIT has been working very well for me for over 30 years!? Yes of course I've made modifications in terms of frequency/duration/volume however the basic fundamental principles have remained.
@@Keppie6yeah i saw a seminar on youtube from 10 years ago he had black t shirt on and barley looked like he lifted and now hes on trt hes all suden bigger
Lifting weight you are always training strength. What powerlifters do is that they have higher skills in the specific lifts. its highly specific, the only thing that transfers is strength.
Principles are not rules. Individual needs do not follow rules. It takes wisdom gained through personal experience/mistakes in order to know how to adjust to ones changing circumstances. I see many lifters speaking as if they know what's "the best" when it's not even going to be applicable to themselves at all times, let alone to their neighbor.
Everything/anything will work for 6 weeks?! REALLY?! How does Dan John know that? Sounds to me like Dan is selling something!? Could it be periodization?! YES! You have to take what people say with a grain of salt because fitness-exercise is a BUSINESS and people are looking to sell you something period. Powerlifting cycles are multi varied in their approach and there is no one size fits all way although I found it very interesting that Greg Doucette, claimed that he and his team/trainees used a one set to failure approach followed by lengthy recoveries which of course got him into Mike Israetel's bad books LOL!
And HIT isn't based upon sales??? Mentzer built his body the way all bodybuilders did back then...volume! The HIT thing was his gimmick to make money. And look how pathetic he looked in his last few years. He looked like a crippled old man.
If a persons program only "works for 6 weeks" then they don't know what they're doing. This is most often the result of nattys following the programming and progression models of steroid users.
There's for sure a context and more to what Dan John is saying when he makes that statement. I highly suggest you check out his work if you haven't. Aside from being a very well respected strength coach (that focuses on if the program actually relates to increased performance) he also is an advocate of natural lifting.
@@hybridresistance I'm familiar w/ him. Got and read Never Let Go. Was very impressed. Started watching him YT vids, and was surprised by some of the things he said and didn't day. So now I'm not sure?
I'm a cult member but I'm currently experimenting with volume training with bands. Mainly because I'm trying to cut. But after it, I'll very likely go back to HIT-like workouts. Even now I'm still doing rest pause for chest to finish.
@@hybridresistance For weights I have a T3 squat stand with rack conversion. With quite a few standard bars and weights of many varieties. I have a full band set up with boards, bars, and fixed wall anchors too. I have a travel band gym that I use on trips and at my GF's place. And of course the squat harness. I'm gonna do a video on that one soon!
Hit is the only way to train the best and smart way. Like Mike said what is the set 20-30-60 sets? It’s not a endurance sport if it was then being in the gym for 8hrs or more is how you would progress but can’t..
Always strongly depends on the context, but I'd say normal is whatever speed is necessary to move the object up and down. Obviously "tempo" is a variable people can manipulate but probably the average of 98+% of lifts across the history and applications of lifting are probably in the range of
The cult aspect is following something 100% and assuming that science from 20-30 years ago is still correct today. As they questioned things before, you’d have to question things again. So regurgitating things as absolutes without thorough experimentation is where the problems arise.
@ It’s a strange thing tbh. Like from personal experience, I did it when I lost most of my muscle from being in a wheelchair or wtv… after being good enough to walk and starting to train again, I trained myself and my brother the Mike Mentzer way. In 6 months I went from 150lbs to 200lbs and gained all my muscle back if not even a bit more - my brother didn’t seem to gain anything more than maybe 5lbs of muscle or something. So similar to Casey Viator, it seems to work great for people who previously lost muscle. It also seems to work for people that built a foundation elsewhere which seems to be the norm with this kind of training. Like I still do believe in the principles of training to failure but honestly, the amount of rest days, like training the same muscle once every 2 weeks is a little extreme and might be holding you back, especially with a lot of machine training. You’ll get good at the machines and that’s mostly it but don’t expect a lot of good transfer, like both myself and my brother actually developed some sort of posture/mechanical problems from relying mostly on machines. Now I train every single day because my body can tolerate it - but I’m only in the gym for maybe 20-30min a time including training my brother. I have 3 pushing workouts, 2 leg workouts, and 2 pulling workouts per week and only rely on freeweight and compound movements for now to get my strength back in a more functional way. Basically to sum things up, you can listen to this way of training but don’t take someone’s recommendation of needing 4 days rest between each session in avoidance of overtraining without actually listening to your own body - that’s where the problems arise because there’s no one size fits all answer here. If you can go up in reps or weight everytime, you’re in a good place. If you stall or get weaker, then add in more rest days at random until you can progress more! There’s no reason to plateau at average weights and think that’s your genetic limit so you can definitley push the body a little bit more. Hopefully some of this made sense to you 👍🏻
John seems to me to be very "cultish" himself as he didn't respond well to me questioning/challenging him in the comment sections under his videos!? As an example in his video titled "Why you must barbell squat" I responded by saying that you in fact don't have to barbell squat, then I pointed out my reasons for saying so. Upon which he went into a long winded dissertation without ever addressing the points I made!!!???
i tore my rotator cuff doing Heavy Duty. on my off days i felt very fatigued. it was a chore getting myself motivated blast heavy weights to failure even after several days between workouts, i still felt like i was walking back into a battle. i now use lighter weights, higher reps and a few more sets. im recovering better. i now use high intensity as more of a periodization routine. i'll be 60 next year and i want to keep on training as long as possible.
Exactly, every person is different in terms of what approach optimizes their gains. For me 3 failure sets per body part every 4 days works best for me personally ie 6 failure sets every 8 days
@@jaminbaer2301 i went to training once a week and it helped but the systemic fatigue left me run down for several days. my joints ached. i can cut and split firewood 8 hours a day, five to six days a week using a 15 lb splitting maul and still recover better. im 59 and have had 3 back surgeries.
I've heard a lot about those guys. I'd actually love to get on there to check it out. I actually spoke to infamous Dr. J yesterday and will have some x3 info coming soon.
Arthur Jones cultivated the "cult" of HIT way back in the day in order to promote Nautilus. He had the Nautilus employees read Eric Hofers' "The True Believer..." book. You can say many things about Arthur but stupid isnt one of them. And one has to laugh, looking at the totality of HIT trainings history when people say"that isnt HIT". Arthur, as pointed out elsewhere in these comments, stayed true only to his principles. Brief, infrequent and intense workouts. His recommendations changed, for the better, through time but always adhering to his principles. There is no, and never has been, any single HIT method.
Well AJ did NOT formulate so called HIT principles he merely pointed them out as he himself stated that brief and infrequent training, was quite well known and written about. Methods are many but principles are few.
Thing about HIT is once you try it you realise you don't need as much volume as other people say. I just find it can be a little boring doing it long term as exercise variety is limited. Everyone should try it at least once though as it changes your perspective for sure.
I’m glad you had a picture of Dan John in the thumbnail - because his timeless advice is true here as it is in most cases “everything works until it doesn’t.” Cant remember where or when I’ve heard that from him, but I know I have!
Thanks man. Dan John is humble but at the same time no nonsense. The biggest metric John uses is does it actually increase performance. In a lot of his books and writings this is something he constantly stresses af you're evaluating any training program. If you got stronger, we should see that demonstrated in whatever walk of life or activity you're in. Class act though all the way.
And super massive Serg Nubret was known for high reps and high sets. Clearly there are either many roads to hypertrophy or different strokes for different folks. Sort of like cancer treatments. Clearly some people have cured cancer with conventional intervention, just as there are people who have cured csncer with radical diets and natural treatments. Different things work for different people. Dogma svks.
@@FrankZen Once you've done roids, you're modified. You can't ever go back. Even if you stop the steroids. At least a percentage of your gains are permanent muscle cells. I'd be super skeptical of the comparisons he drew.
@Cokblokula fair point but even as a natural, I was able to grow on HIT. I'm not a pro but I was able to make the gains that I wanted as a natural. My build was like a fullback back then which is the look I was going for. Now at 50+ I'm just maintaining reasonable size and shape.
HIT gets weirder than this. IME the community tends to weave in a lot of unrelated philosophical notions, like Ayn Rand, objectivism, skepticim about everything. That's what happens when you don't have empirical reality on your side, you have to reach for wacky philosophical justifications for your goofy beliefs.
I hear you that. John and I have discussed that (with no offense) some also tend to adopt not just Mentzer's training, but also his overall philosophical ideologies as well. Think it all comes down to the power influence in the end.
Wizzdummheadly . Well I'm only doing 3 failure sets per muscle group per session, so 6 total failure sets per body part every 8 days .and quads I only do 2 failure sets per session or 4 every 8 days . However, except for quads I'm not going beyond failure with drop sets and forced reps and rest pause . I'm only going to full rep failure plus one or two long length partial s so I know for sure I hit failure. At 64 I don't have it in me to train to way beyond failure, full rep failure plus 1 or 2 partials is basically as hard as I can go except for quads wjere I will do rest pause for 2 or 3 extra reps
Want to preface for people who don’t watch the whole video, this is not a “hit piece” on HIT. But just sharing perspectives many have found within the community. What might seem as highlighting the negatives, we are actually encouraging individuals to experiment with high intensity principles, while still examining their own individual interests and abilities for their overall programming.
HIT is not a “cult,” it’s literally just 4 principles: (1) train as hard as possible, (2) don’t train for too long at the expense of #1, (3) don’t train too frequently, again at the expense of #1, (4) lift and lower the weight with control so you don’t injure yourself. I really don’t see how anyone can MAXIMIZE gains if they don’t follow these. You’d either be wasting time ie overtraining/overreaching by ignoring 1-3, or you injure yourself by ignoring 4.
It's clearly more than just four principles, unless "literally" means "not really". lol.
@ You’re conflating “training principles” with “training programs.” Not the same thing
Exactly well said sir
YEP!
"I really don’t see how anyone can MAXIMIZE gains if they don’t follow these." explains perfectly why people refer to people who preach HIT as 'cult' as they preach its the only way to maximise gains and everything else is some type of scam (lol) or useless
Excellent Mike you and John make for a great interview.
Appreciate it Lou. Got a bunch of other interviews lined up in the near future with some other great names.
Kiwi here, from New Zealand. love the rugby allblack jersey
John likes his Rugby.
Oi Kiwi!
Another Kiwi here - a Christian - Mentzer Heavy Duty enthusiast from Auckland.
@@iancummings3150 greetings Kiwi! I had a great time in Aukland exactly 21 years back!
Kamate Kamate
I love these interviews, Mike!
Thanks Jay. Got some more on deck coming
Am 70 and just started and am on my second week of 3 x a week: M-Legs, W-Chest/Tri, F-Back/Shdr/Bi. Thanks much guys.
Appreciate you watching !
Me to. At 70yrs am the oldest OG under the barbell at the Local YMCA. HIT incredible, his point is well taken on becoming cultist. Stay strong. Do you do any cardio? I love swimming and cycling.🏊🏻🏋♂️☄️
I personally feel that perspective has a lot to do with how someone may view or analyze a topic matter.
Keep in mind that perspective is subjective and not objective.
Dan John is a Strength and Conditioning Coach.
HIT guys,(myself included),are interested in esthetics and maybe health.
We usually aren't attempting a 200kg Snatch.
For sure, great comment. Something that Dan John and other strength coaches stress is that whether it's sport or daily life, if you got stronger, you should see that manifest in those other areas. I can't speak for everyone, but I sometimes hear various perspectives (even from the HIT guru's) themselves on the benefits and rational for using HIT. I won't say the person's name, but I heard personally from someone is high up there who basically told me HIT is for people that just want efficiency in there training or the least effective dose, but it's not ideal for maximizing performance.
Well the term "perspective is subjective" is also subjective isn't it?!
Regarding how everything works for 6 weeks... 6 weeks is about when you need to take a break. If you keep going, you'll burn out! My cycles were about 8 weeks on and about 2-4 off.
@@FrankZen thanks brother. I remember you saying you were cycling with it on and off.
I have started building layoffs of usually 2 weeks long every 8-12 weeks. (Usually every 8 weeks.) That works out to about 16-20 workouts before taking a layoff as I train every 4 days using a push/legs/pull/legs Heavy Duty style methodology.
"...encouraging individuals to experiment with high intensity principles, while still examining their own individual interests and abilities for their overall programming." - Exactly!!! Varying training, over long macro/mega cycles, is the way to go. No matter what type of intense training, one must soon change it up. "A change has to come." - Again, exactly. The great thing about bodybuilding is the wide array of choices available. Different styles of training are part of the huge collection of tools, all for the bodybuilder's toolbox. Varying training, via periodization, is also better for overall health.
I love Mr. Hart. He’s so “real.”. He’s a great guy in addition to being a great mind in natural bodybuilding.
Read the research by Chris Beardsley His research does tend to support the idea of brief, intense workouts with just 2-3 sets. However, it is possible to train more frequently than many in the HIT community would have you believe.
Lots of lifting cults out there… as someone who first got in to serious lifting through Starting Strength, this discussion immediately made me think of Rippetoe and his disciples.
For sure. I say that with respect to the great Mr. Rippetoe who I visited over in Wichita Falls. To their credit, I will say they will occasionally stress that it's called "Starting Strength" for a reason. That for the context of a beginner lifter seeking to get strong, their path can be a great solid path to those goals.
i hate cults, i've been logging my workouts for a couple years now and my preferred method is 5x5 but my joints start to hurt. i love hiit for recovering but i only do hiit with super high reps. 1 set to failure per exercise. its a very good program to recover if you've gonna too heavy for too long. my elbows and knees are almost 100% now and i'm ready to go back to 5x5 or maybe try matt venas high frequency split. just log your workouts and give other programs a shot. the longer you workout the more open you are.
YEP!
@@hybridresistance According to them!!!???
@@johnlinsky19 HIT is a great program to BUILD not something you do to recover from "real" workouts LOL! How great could these workouts be if they're injuring you?!
Really enjoyed this chat. I just turned 60 this year and remember the days of dead lifting 650 but had no interest in competing my weakness was bench at 26
0. However with weight restrictions from a cardiologist will do a single one leg press at 260 once in while just to check out what I still can do, he would have a heart attack. John Heart knows his stuff. People need to adjust their training cycle over 6-12 weeks. There are plenty of apps out there that can help people do this.
Really appreciate that comment and happy you enjoyed the discussion.
VARIATION IS KEY to making great progress.
Kevin & John collaboration? Im there!
I look at it this way, if you are capable of benchpressing say 500lb just once a fortnight for one set with good form there is no two ways about it you will definately have a strong well developed chest and rest pause is an excellent method. Things breakdown because people believe every bodypart needs to be trained each week, the whole body should be split up over a fortnight not a week. What do other people think.
The dorian yates method is most optimal..one top set per exercise after warm ups is ideal. If you are doing multiple work sets of an exercise you are holding back and not gaining anything
Sloppy sets more weight than you can handle and get your training partner to do forced reps when you haven’t even hit failure yet. It sure is optimally retarded.
Dorian did NOT heed Mike's advice to the fullest which very likely lead to his injuries that forced him into retirement.
Wizzdummheadly . I found I get rhe best results by following yates approach.
Eg chest I started with 1 super set set both to failure pec dec / chest . Every 14 days , got no results . Then did the same every 7 days , got no results. Then switched to yates one failure set incline bench, 1 failure set flat bench , 1 failure set pec dec once per week,, and got some gains .
Then switched to yates program once every 4 days , with every 4th day rest . And that got me , my best gains for me. So for me that is optimal, for other people maybe less frequency is optimal but for me 6 failure sets every 8 days is optimal.
Now I'm only taking each failure set to slightly beyond failure ie to make absolutely sure I'm reached failure I keep going until I'm forced to do 1 to 2 partial reps . I'm not going way beyond failure using forced reps or drop.sets or rest pause . I do use rest pause for belt sqauts for quads and for quads I only do 4 sets oer 8 days not 6 like every muscle group
@@iang8169 So you are training body-parts-exercises twice every 8 days then?! Good luck to you if so because with the intensity that I train with I wouldn't & could never hit exercises-body-parts, more often than every 7-10 days.
Damn John, I hope I look as good as you when I turn 60 - stud.
At 15:16 David Shaw is mentioned, but picture shown is of strongman Brian Shaw. Which one is the correct one? :)
Edit: OK, just saw the other picture at 26:15.
Maybe when it “stops working” you just need to reduce your training frequency? To match what you can recover from when changing the techniques and/or the number of exercises. If you’re training “harder” then you couldn’t handle as much of it and the frequency could’ve become too frequent for that technique. Personally I just train to mmf postive failure and only if the set or exercise didn’t feel right, I’ll do a short dropset maybe. Should be plenty for stimulating muscle
You make a very good point that MANY ignore and are ignorant about which is the key to making great gains/progress, RECOVERY!
Nope.
@@Rob-qn6od YES!
@@Rob-qn6od YEP!
@@WizzdummHeadley Yes, hit doesn't work. Glad you agree.
HIT has been working very well for me for over 30 years!? Yes of course I've made modifications in terms of frequency/duration/volume however the basic fundamental principles have remained.
John if I had a channel, you’d be the first person I’d ask for a collaboration.
Great stuff. Thanks
Drew Baye has also shouted John out.
Drew did that slow stuff for years and barely looked like he lifted. He only looked good once he started Vitamin T.
@@Keppie6yeah i saw a seminar on youtube from 10 years ago he had black t shirt on and barley looked like he lifted and now hes on trt hes all suden bigger
Lifting weight you are always training strength.
What powerlifters do is that they have higher skills in the specific lifts. its highly specific, the only thing that transfers is strength.
Great content here.
Principles are not rules. Individual needs do not follow rules. It takes wisdom gained through personal experience/mistakes in order to know how to adjust to ones changing circumstances.
I see many lifters speaking as if they know what's "the best" when it's not even going to be applicable to themselves at all times, let alone to their neighbor.
Everything/anything will work for 6 weeks?! REALLY?! How does Dan John know that? Sounds to me like Dan is selling something!? Could it be periodization?! YES! You have to take what people say with a grain of salt because fitness-exercise is a BUSINESS and people are looking to sell you something period. Powerlifting cycles are multi varied in their approach and there is no one size fits all way although I found it very interesting that Greg Doucette, claimed that he and his team/trainees used a one set to failure approach followed by lengthy recoveries which of course got him into Mike Israetel's bad books LOL!
I hear you, but Dan is the furthest thing from salesman and one of the most down to earth humblest coaches around.
@@hybridresistance But he is a salesman none the less after all exercise is and has been his business.
And HIT isn't based upon sales??? Mentzer built his body the way all bodybuilders did back then...volume! The HIT thing was his gimmick to make money. And look how pathetic he looked in his last few years. He looked like a crippled old man.
If a persons program only "works for 6 weeks" then they don't know what they're doing. This is most often the result of nattys following the programming and progression models of steroid users.
There's for sure a context and more to what Dan John is saying when he makes that statement. I highly suggest you check out his work if you haven't. Aside from being a very well respected strength coach (that focuses on if the program actually relates to increased performance) he also is an advocate of natural lifting.
@@hybridresistance I'm familiar w/ him. Got and read Never Let Go. Was very impressed. Started watching him YT vids, and was surprised by some of the things he said and didn't day. So now I'm not sure?
@@hybridresistance Never question the great Dan John!👊
Every person is a physiological fingerprint; consequently, there is no “one system fits all” training method.
Amen brother
I'm a cult member but I'm currently experimenting with volume training with bands. Mainly because I'm trying to cut. But after it, I'll very likely go back to HIT-like workouts. Even now I'm still doing rest pause for chest to finish.
@@FrankZen what do you got in that home gym of yours Frank?
@@hybridresistance For weights I have a T3 squat stand with rack conversion. With quite a few standard bars and weights of many varieties. I have a full band set up with boards, bars, and fixed wall anchors too. I have a travel band gym that I use on trips and at my GF's place. And of course the squat harness. I'm gonna do a video on that one soon!
Trying to cut? Bands won't get you cut...you have to diet! Fool.
Hit is the only way to train the best and smart way. Like Mike said what is the set 20-30-60 sets? It’s not a endurance sport if it was then being in the gym for 8hrs or more is how you would progress but can’t..
Hit cultist right here. 😂
What do you consider normal rep speed.
Always strongly depends on the context, but I'd say normal is whatever speed is necessary to move the object up and down. Obviously "tempo" is a variable people can manipulate but probably the average of 98+% of lifts across the history and applications of lifting are probably in the range of
Subbed!
Appreciate it, thanks brother.
The cult aspect is following something 100% and assuming that science from 20-30 years ago is still correct today. As they questioned things before, you’d have to question things again. So regurgitating things as absolutes without thorough experimentation is where the problems arise.
But if something worked in the past, why wouldn’t it work now?
@ It’s a strange thing tbh. Like from personal experience, I did it when I lost most of my muscle from being in a wheelchair or wtv… after being good enough to walk and starting to train again, I trained myself and my brother the Mike Mentzer way. In 6 months I went from 150lbs to 200lbs and gained all my muscle back if not even a bit more - my brother didn’t seem to gain anything more than maybe 5lbs of muscle or something. So similar to Casey Viator, it seems to work great for people who previously lost muscle. It also seems to work for people that built a foundation elsewhere which seems to be the norm with this kind of training. Like I still do believe in the principles of training to failure but honestly, the amount of rest days, like training the same muscle once every 2 weeks is a little extreme and might be holding you back, especially with a lot of machine training. You’ll get good at the machines and that’s mostly it but don’t expect a lot of good transfer, like both myself and my brother actually developed some sort of posture/mechanical problems from relying mostly on machines. Now I train every single day because my body can tolerate it - but I’m only in the gym for maybe 20-30min a time including training my brother. I have 3 pushing workouts, 2 leg workouts, and 2 pulling workouts per week and only rely on freeweight and compound movements for now to get my strength back in a more functional way.
Basically to sum things up, you can listen to this way of training but don’t take someone’s recommendation of needing 4 days rest between each session in avoidance of overtraining without actually listening to your own body - that’s where the problems arise because there’s no one size fits all answer here. If you can go up in reps or weight everytime, you’re in a good place. If you stall or get weaker, then add in more rest days at random until you can progress more! There’s no reason to plateau at average weights and think that’s your genetic limit so you can definitley push the body a little bit more.
Hopefully some of this made sense to you 👍🏻
The whole ‘fitness’ industry is a little culty tbh
for sure brother.
John seems to me to be very "cultish" himself as he didn't respond well to me questioning/challenging him in the comment sections under his videos!? As an example in his video titled "Why you must barbell squat" I responded by saying that you in fact don't have to barbell squat, then I pointed out my reasons for saying so. Upon which he went into a long winded dissertation without ever addressing the points I made!!!???
i tore my rotator cuff doing Heavy Duty. on my off days i felt very fatigued. it was a chore getting myself motivated blast heavy weights to failure even after several days between workouts, i still felt like i was walking back into a battle. i now use lighter weights, higher reps and a few more sets. im recovering better. i now use high intensity as more of a periodization routine. i'll be 60 next year and i want to keep on training as long as possible.
Thanks for sharing that story.
Exactly, every person is different in terms of what approach optimizes their gains. For me 3 failure sets per body part every 4 days works best for me personally ie 6 failure sets every 8 days
Do you think you are on the side of the bell curve that requires more recovery time
@@jaminbaer2301 i went to training once a week and it helped but the systemic fatigue left me run down for several days. my joints ached. i can cut and split firewood 8 hours a day, five to six days a week using a 15 lb splitting maul and still recover better. im 59 and have had 3 back surgeries.
@@tracypritchettThank you so much for sharing your experience.
Sounds like the x3 cult, I mean FB group.
I've heard a lot about those guys. I'd actually love to get on there to check it out. I actually spoke to infamous Dr. J yesterday and will have some x3 info coming soon.
@@hybridresistance Looking forward to it.
Nice
I actually love Dr J but I don't have his set yet. I love the bar and wish it was sold separately.
Arthur Jones cultivated the "cult" of HIT way back in the day in order to promote Nautilus. He had the Nautilus employees read Eric Hofers' "The True Believer..." book. You can say many things about Arthur but stupid isnt one of them.
And one has to laugh, looking at the totality of HIT trainings history when people say"that isnt HIT". Arthur, as pointed out elsewhere in these comments, stayed true only to his principles. Brief, infrequent and intense workouts. His recommendations changed, for the better, through time but always adhering to his principles.
There is no, and never has been, any single HIT method.
I would add HUGE respect for Mr Heart.
Well AJ did NOT formulate so called HIT principles he merely pointed them out as he himself stated that brief and infrequent training, was quite well known and written about. Methods are many but principles are few.
@@WizzdummHeadley I didn't claim he did.
@@derrickbyal8462 You did, you said his principles.
@@derrickbyal8462 You did.
Thing about HIT is once you try it you realise you don't need as much volume as other people say.
I just find it can be a little boring doing it long term as exercise variety is limited.
Everyone should try it at least once though as it changes your perspective for sure.
Great comment and good point.
Always suspicious of him since he slagged Doug Brignole after he died . Didn't seem very kind or Christian.
I’m glad you had a picture of Dan John in the thumbnail - because his timeless advice is true here as it is in most cases “everything works until it doesn’t.”
Cant remember where or when I’ve heard that from him, but I know I have!
Thanks man. Dan John is humble but at the same time no nonsense. The biggest metric John uses is does it actually increase performance. In a lot of his books and writings this is something he constantly stresses af you're evaluating any training program. If you got stronger, we should see that demonstrated in whatever walk of life or activity you're in. Class act though all the way.
But Mike Mentzer was huge.
Are you telling me his size was due to his aggressive steroid use rather than his unusual training protocol?
And super massive Serg Nubret was known for high reps and high sets. Clearly there are either many roads to hypertrophy or different strokes for different folks. Sort of like cancer treatments. Clearly some people have cured cancer with conventional intervention, just as there are people who have cured csncer with radical diets and natural treatments. Different things work for different people. Dogma svks.
Both. He actually discussed the differences on steroids and off in his old articles.
@@FrankZen Once you've done roids, you're modified. You can't ever go back. Even if you stop the steroids. At least a percentage of your gains are permanent muscle cells.
I'd be super skeptical of the comparisons he drew.
@Cokblokula fair point but even as a natural, I was able to grow on HIT. I'm not a pro but I was able to make the gains that I wanted as a natural. My build was like a fullback back then which is the look I was going for. Now at 50+ I'm just maintaining reasonable size and shape.
Unless there's a commonality to both@@jmc0369
HIT gets weirder than this. IME the community tends to weave in a lot of unrelated philosophical notions, like Ayn Rand, objectivism, skepticim about everything. That's what happens when you don't have empirical reality on your side, you have to reach for wacky philosophical justifications for your goofy beliefs.
I hear you that. John and I have discussed that (with no offense) some also tend to adopt not just Mentzer's training, but also his overall philosophical ideologies as well. Think it all comes down to the power influence in the end.
@@hybridresistance Gotcha! I missed that part as I'm not yet finished with the interview. I'm glad others have noticed
Wizzdummheadly . Well I'm only doing 3 failure sets per muscle group per session, so 6 total failure sets per body part every 8 days .and quads I only do 2 failure sets per session or 4 every 8 days .
However, except for quads I'm not going beyond failure with drop sets and forced reps and rest pause . I'm only going to full rep failure plus one or two long length partial s so I know for sure I hit failure.
At 64 I don't have it in me to train to way beyond failure, full rep failure plus 1 or 2 partials is basically as hard as I can go except for quads wjere I will do rest pause for 2 or 3 extra reps