Thanks Rob. I ordered a set of cutters for my lathe on your recommendation. By the way, to find the module of cutter take the outside diameter of a gear in mm. and divide that by (the number of teeth plus two), or you can divide the pitch diameter in mm. by the number of teeth. Cheers from Canada. John
Good pick up Campbell. The Chinese HSS i've bought/used over the years has been first class, All my involute gear cutters are Chinese and work well/stay sharp/are well made. Cheers Rob
Hi Rob, Love them or hate them Banggood and the like do make engineering a possibility for most people... Also, with some once in a lifetime projects affordable tooling does help. Take care Paul,,
Hi Ian, my older Chinese HSS ones work fantastic. Still sharp as. I don't see why the BG ones would be any different. The BG ones actually have minimal run out, a lot less than my older ones. I didn't mention it as we were primarily checking over the BG items and they met all measurement requirements well. In comments I see one viewer has bought and used this same item and gives it his blessing. Cheers Rob
Thanks for the review. I ordered three of these early August so reassuring to see your review. Tracking indicates mid Sept delivery which is ok in the current circumstances. Price was $7.59 US each which I thought was pretty reasonable. Looking forward to knocking up some extra change gears for my Paramount FI-610SM which I bought on your review advice four years ago after losing my old Hercus in a bushfire. It is a very solid little lathe that has exceeded my expectations. Cheers
Good to get some feedback on the lathe and that you like it. I can't remember what the change gears were like on that lathe - what Module does it take ? I notice that some of the latest small lathes have gone for much heavier change gears, which is a good thing. Cheers Rob
xynudu Change gears are module 1, PA 20. Although fairly thin with burrs and some runout they do the job and no failures so far but don’t compare to the real stuff on the old Hercus. Need some other ratios to slow the feed hence the cutters. Dabbled with gears a bit in a past life so this will be a nice refresher. Will try brass for a start.
I thought they were but wasn't sure. That review was done back in 2014. I remember it surprised me at the time due to the lathe size (next step up from the regular 10" swing units). Just checking to make sure you were getting the right ones. All good. Brass is probably the best metal for gears as it works easily and hardens with use. Cast iron can develop internal fractures when machining and is not as strong as people think (particularly if you get a lot of feedback through the spindle). Aluminium is excellent (the right type) and runs quiet and is stronger than the weight suggests. I've never had one fail despite breaking numerous shear pins on the leadscrew. Good luck. Cheers Rob
@@lonesailer Funnily enough even plastic works pretty well for some gears: I 3d printed a set of change gears for my Sheraton to allow it to cut metric threads. They work very well, though I'm not sure how long the keyways will last under heavy use. My Grandfather has an old Qualos Junior lathe, and all its change gears are bakelite! Still going after 70 years.
Hi there, Good timing, Just been looking at getting myself a set sometime. Waiting on banggood to restock a few things but i think this world pandemic has upset everything. Hehe, Ill test them BG Thanks for the video and keep it up. Regards Paul
Interesting video Rob . Can't argue with the price . How do they do it? If I want 14dp imperial cutters for the old Drummond lathe it is an arm and £eg.
Hi Lee, Imperial is getting harder to source these days. Metric pretty much rules the world apart from the USA. Second hand Imperial is worth bugger all because no one wants it, or you pay through the nose if you want new Imperial as few people stock it. I work in both and that digital caliper BG sell with fractions of an inch display is a god send - so good sizing stuff. Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu I find odd bits of imperial tooling at tool suppliers, generally when they are having a sale, because these have not moved off the shelf in 3 decades, so I buy them cheap. Had to, because had some US source machinery, and the fasteners and repair parts were a pain to get, and ordering from the agents was insanely expensive, for essentially a bolt with attitude, so got the recoil kit for that size imperial locally, and had a machinist turn out a dozen or so of the bolts out of 10mm hex stainless steel stock, instead of the unobtanium 3/8 stock. Had a brand new old stock 5/16 BSW die nut to put the matching thread on for the recoil set, and had new shear pins for a tenth of the price of one. Taper pins I got the reamer in imperial ultra cheap, and simply used the metric pins, because the difference is so small between 10 and 12 taper, so you tap in either pin into the hole and it will grip, just one side grips more than the other. No bother in old holes, as the pins were the fuse anyway, so they did get a little chewed up with use, and I had a big box of old imperial, new metric, slightly used and straightened, and broken to all bits taper pins, so I could use the appropriate size to fit the hole. Did pick up a whole handful of the imperial pins to go with the reamer later on, on sale for less than a dollar the pack, as nobody wanted to buy rusty pins. Just light sanding, and a coat of oil, and they are self locking pins. One thing I do have is a bag of mixed screws, M3 and 1/8 BSW, along with the nuts, which look identical, but do not work together. But easy enough to grab a few, grab the nuts, and see which fits which, and use as is, with only a minor bit of extra, though I admit there have been a few that went ^#$*& and were put on with force, never coming apart again. More than a few have also been turned into solid rivets as well, quicker than trying to get the nuts right, and all I need is the bolt cutter and the ball peen hammer to make it work, especially on steel sheets into angle stock, quicker than tapping the holes.
Hi Rob,. interesting as I have a set on bangood ready to order. I have found lately they are adding in a lot more freight charges and do not want to pay that much and the freight is not there when I add to cart but sure is when I go to checkout. Not sure what to do so have not made my order yet. I think they are the same as yours but I could not find your link to them. Also having more trouble finding the arbor for them. Do you need the keyway for them in the arbor? Have never used them but would sure like to. Dale in Canada
Hi Dale, yes you definitely need the key way. You could use a stud or roll pin if a key way is a problem to machine. I have added the link - it got lost in a failed upload attempt. Cheers Rob
Thanks for the reply Rob,. I was looking at making an arbor so that really helps so will definitely have a keyway then. Thanks for the ideas on it. Dale in Canada
Good day Rob. I know you are not affiliated with BG. But I thought maybe you could enlighten me as to how to understand their ads. I find them so confusing as to what would actually be included in an order. I have bought several small items from them but am hesitant to buy anything big such as a DRO system. I like BG and I am glad they are here for us,I hope they will improve their communication skills ,doing that would help them and us as well. I always enjoy your blog and I especially appreciate your comment (if I can do it you can do it) as a rank amateur I need all the help I can get.Thanks for the videos . Jim
Spoiling us with so much content lately Rob👍 Spread out in their packets I thort " hmmm, condoms.. Rob's getting super lucky tonight" 🤣 Don't think either partner would enjoy it if one of them was on the old fella tho.
Hi Bill, I was thinking things would slow down over winter and even mentioned it in an earlier video, but just the opposite has happened. You never know what's going to happen with YT. Rob get lucky ;) He He no comment. Cheers Rob
BG don't sell much in the way of metalwork gear at all these days. Pity because it was good value and decent quality. They seem to be focussing on RC and general homewares these days. Cheers Rob
I’ve made the mistake of ordering Chinese involute cutters because of videos like this one, and consequently I’ve ruined hours of work by trusting that they’d be ground correctly and cut a gear that’s at least relatively close enough to mesh. That is not the case. NEVER buy Chinese involute cutters, unless you hate yourself or something. I have a set of dp20 14.5pa and the tooth profiles aren’t even remotely close to correct, not even close, not a single one of them.
Your tough luck. Obviously they are not all the same. I have sets from two independent suppliers (one well known in Europe) , all Chinese cutters and work perfectly fine. Maybe check out some of my gear cutting videos and get educated a bit on them. Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu I’ve seen your gear cutting videos, plenty of other gear cutting videos, read 2 different books on gears, and understand enough to make and repair my own gears. I buy and sell old American machinery and consequently find myself fixing, and/or making a fair amount of 14.5 degree gears of different pitch, which is how the DP20 set came about in the first place, it’s not a super common profile these days, at least as far as my experience. For the most part, I’ve enjoyed your videos. My point is that videos like this don’t account for the wide range in quality you may or may not get when ordering involute cutters from some random Chinese source, and lead people to believe that Chinese cutters are “just as good” as any reputable brand. They are not. Your luck when ordering cheap Chinese cutters is likely the most reliable variable in the entire transaction. I also have a set of chinesium module 1 cutters that I got in a box at a flee market that are, for the most part, “fine” and cut a passable profile. You can call me ignorant for pointing that out, whatever it’s your video. I’ll know to avoid further videos in the future, thanks.
No problem. If you had said that in the first place instead of branding all Chinese involute cutters as the same, then you wouldn't have got my response. I don't care if you watch my channel or not. Cheers Rob
To declare an asian made product "first class" simply by a visual inspection with absolutely no actual use is a worthless review in my opinion. As many people know there are a lot of products made out of Chinesium that look good on a website but turn out to be total garbage in use. These gear cutters may very well be worthwhile, but your review did not offer any confidence or help in making that decision.
Ive tried various import gear cutters.. they all come from the same cookie cutter factory. they are worthless for cutting anything harder than very soft mild steel. the runout on them is horrific as well as they appear to be forged. some runout as much as 0.010 essentially turning into a single point cutter. they are ok for brass, aluminum and plastic, and even cast iron provided you have a very ridged setup... but for tough steel gears from even annealed to be hardened later? never... they claim to be quality high speed steel... and that claim is very much exaggerated.
Thanks Rob. I ordered a set of cutters for my lathe on your recommendation. By the way, to find the module of cutter take the outside diameter of a gear in mm. and divide that by (the number of teeth plus two), or you can divide the pitch diameter in mm. by the number of teeth. Cheers from Canada. John
Thanks for the video Rob. Good honest reviews are always welcome. Keep safe and stay well.
I have just received the same M1 set, at $76 you just cant beat it I recon very happy with them
Good pick up Campbell. The Chinese HSS i've bought/used over the years has been first class, All my involute gear cutters are Chinese and work well/stay sharp/are well made. Cheers Rob
Hi Rob,
Love them or hate them Banggood and the like do make engineering a possibility for most people...
Also, with some once in a lifetime projects affordable tooling does help.
Take care
Paul,,
Dead right Paul.
I have often looked at gear cutters but baulked at the price , these are what i have been looking for and won’t break the bank !
Hi Ian, my older Chinese HSS ones work fantastic. Still sharp as. I don't see why the BG ones would be any different.
The BG ones actually have minimal run out, a lot less than my older ones. I didn't mention it as we were primarily checking over the BG items and they met all measurement requirements well. In comments I see one viewer has bought and used this same item and gives it his blessing. Cheers Rob
Thanks for this modul cutter milling
Thanks for the review. I ordered three of these early August so reassuring to see your review. Tracking indicates mid Sept delivery which is ok in the current circumstances. Price was $7.59 US each which I thought was pretty reasonable.
Looking forward to knocking up some extra change gears for my Paramount FI-610SM which I bought on your review advice four years ago after losing my old Hercus in a bushfire. It is a very solid little lathe that has exceeded my expectations. Cheers
Good to get some feedback on the lathe and that you like it. I can't remember what the change gears were like on that lathe - what Module does it take ?
I notice that some of the latest small lathes have gone for much heavier change gears, which is a good thing. Cheers Rob
xynudu Change gears are module 1, PA 20. Although fairly thin with burrs and some runout they do the job and no failures so far but don’t compare to the real stuff on the old Hercus. Need some other ratios to slow the feed hence the cutters. Dabbled with gears a bit in a past life so this will be a nice refresher. Will try brass for a start.
I thought they were but wasn't sure. That review was done back in 2014. I remember it surprised me at the time due to the lathe size (next step up from the regular 10" swing units). Just checking to make sure you were getting the right ones. All good.
Brass is probably the best metal for gears as it works easily and hardens with use. Cast iron can develop internal fractures when machining and is not as strong as people think (particularly if you get a lot of feedback through the spindle). Aluminium is excellent (the right type) and runs quiet and is stronger than the weight suggests. I've never had one fail despite breaking numerous shear pins on the leadscrew. Good luck. Cheers Rob
Yes, could do aluminium. Saved a bucket of melted Toyota wheels from the fire.
@@lonesailer Funnily enough even plastic works pretty well for some gears: I 3d printed a set of change gears for my Sheraton to allow it to cut metric threads. They work very well, though I'm not sure how long the keyways will last under heavy use.
My Grandfather has an old Qualos Junior lathe, and all its change gears are bakelite! Still going after 70 years.
Thanks also. Need to make a set of gears for my old lathe. Not being a machinist, need the help that you give.
Glad to help
Hi there,
Good timing, Just been looking at getting myself a set sometime.
Waiting on banggood to restock a few things but i think this world pandemic has upset everything. Hehe, Ill test them BG
Thanks for the video and keep it up.
Regards
Paul
Thanks for this Rob - always learning from you!
I had to make some gear shafts recently on my mill turn, these would have came in handy
Interesting video Rob . Can't argue with the price . How do they do it? If I want 14dp imperial cutters for the old Drummond lathe it is an arm and £eg.
Hi Lee, Imperial is getting harder to source these days. Metric pretty much rules the world apart from the USA. Second hand Imperial is worth bugger all because no one wants it, or you pay through the nose if you want new Imperial as few people stock it. I work in both and that digital caliper BG sell with fractions of an inch display is a god send - so good sizing stuff. Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu I find odd bits of imperial tooling at tool suppliers, generally when they are having a sale, because these have not moved off the shelf in 3 decades, so I buy them cheap. Had to, because had some US source machinery, and the fasteners and repair parts were a pain to get, and ordering from the agents was insanely expensive, for essentially a bolt with attitude, so got the recoil kit for that size imperial locally, and had a machinist turn out a dozen or so of the bolts out of 10mm hex stainless steel stock, instead of the unobtanium 3/8 stock. Had a brand new old stock 5/16 BSW die nut to put the matching thread on for the recoil set, and had new shear pins for a tenth of the price of one.
Taper pins I got the reamer in imperial ultra cheap, and simply used the metric pins, because the difference is so small between 10 and 12 taper, so you tap in either pin into the hole and it will grip, just one side grips more than the other. No bother in old holes, as the pins were the fuse anyway, so they did get a little chewed up with use, and I had a big box of old imperial, new metric, slightly used and straightened, and broken to all bits taper pins, so I could use the appropriate size to fit the hole. Did pick up a whole handful of the imperial pins to go with the reamer later on, on sale for less than a dollar the pack, as nobody wanted to buy rusty pins. Just light sanding, and a coat of oil, and they are self locking pins.
One thing I do have is a bag of mixed screws, M3 and 1/8 BSW, along with the nuts, which look identical, but do not work together. But easy enough to grab a few, grab the nuts, and see which fits which, and use as is, with only a minor bit of extra, though I admit there have been a few that went ^#$*& and were put on with force, never coming apart again. More than a few have also been turned into solid rivets as well, quicker than trying to get the nuts right, and all I need is the bolt cutter and the ball peen hammer to make it work, especially on steel sheets into angle stock, quicker than tapping the holes.
Nice review. Wish BG had DP cutters for stuck in the old days. Anyway, well done. 😊 -Mark
Hi Rob,. interesting as I have a set on bangood ready to order. I have found lately they are adding in a lot more freight charges and do not want to pay that much and the freight is not there when I add to cart but sure is when I go to checkout. Not sure what to do so have not made my order yet. I think they are the same as yours but I could not find your link to them. Also having more trouble finding the arbor for them. Do you need the keyway for them in the arbor? Have never used them but would sure like to.
Dale in Canada
Hi Dale, yes you definitely need the key way. You could use a stud or roll pin if a key way is a problem to machine. I have added the link - it got lost in a failed upload attempt. Cheers Rob
Thanks for the reply Rob,. I was looking at making an arbor so that really helps so will definitely have a keyway then. Thanks for the ideas on it.
Dale in Canada
Good day Rob. I know you are not affiliated with BG. But I thought maybe you could enlighten me as to how to understand their ads. I find them so confusing as to what would actually be included in an order. I have bought several small items from them but am hesitant to buy anything big such as a DRO system. I like BG and I am glad they are here for us,I hope they will improve their communication skills ,doing that would help them and us as well. I always enjoy your blog and I especially appreciate your comment (if I can do it you can do it) as a rank amateur I need all the help I can get.Thanks for the videos . Jim
Hi Jim, I only know what you know. Their ads are confusing. I buy stuff from them as well and have the same issues. Cheers Rob
did I miss the link? or is it in the 'open your eyes' department???
Hi Merlin, I've added the link - it got lost in a failed upload attempt. Had some YT problems lately. Cheers Rob
Spoiling us with so much content lately Rob👍
Spread out in their packets I thort " hmmm, condoms.. Rob's getting super lucky tonight" 🤣 Don't think either partner would enjoy it if one of them was on the old fella tho.
Hi Bill, I was thinking things would slow down over winter and even mentioned it in an earlier video, but just the opposite has happened. You never know what's going to happen with YT. Rob get lucky ;) He He no comment. Cheers Rob
BG no longer appears to sell involute cutters, sadly.
BG don't sell much in the way of metalwork gear at all these days. Pity because it was good value and decent quality. They seem to be focussing on RC and general homewares these days. Cheers Rob
I’ve made the mistake of ordering Chinese involute cutters because of videos like this one, and consequently I’ve ruined hours of work by trusting that they’d be ground correctly and cut a gear that’s at least relatively close enough to mesh. That is not the case. NEVER buy Chinese involute cutters, unless you hate yourself or something. I have a set of dp20 14.5pa and the tooth profiles aren’t even remotely close to correct, not even close, not a single one of them.
Your tough luck. Obviously they are not all the same. I have sets from two independent suppliers (one well known in Europe) , all Chinese cutters and work perfectly fine. Maybe check out some of my gear cutting videos and get educated a bit on them. Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu I’ve seen your gear cutting videos, plenty of other gear cutting videos, read 2 different books on gears, and understand enough to make and repair my own gears. I buy and sell old American machinery and consequently find myself fixing, and/or making a fair amount of 14.5 degree gears of different pitch, which is how the DP20 set came about in the first place, it’s not a super common profile these days, at least as far as my experience. For the most part, I’ve enjoyed your videos. My point is that videos like this don’t account for the wide range in quality you may or may not get when ordering involute cutters from some random Chinese source, and lead people to believe that Chinese cutters are “just as good” as any reputable brand. They are not. Your luck when ordering cheap Chinese cutters is likely the most reliable variable in the entire transaction. I also have a set of chinesium module 1 cutters that I got in a box at a flee market that are, for the most part, “fine” and cut a passable profile. You can call me ignorant for pointing that out, whatever it’s your video. I’ll know to avoid further videos in the future, thanks.
No problem. If you had said that in the first place instead of branding all Chinese involute cutters as the same, then you wouldn't have got my response. I don't care if you watch my channel or not. Cheers Rob
To declare an asian made product "first class" simply by a visual inspection with absolutely no actual use is a worthless review in my opinion. As many people know there are a lot of products made out of Chinesium that look good on a website but turn out to be total garbage in use. These gear cutters may very well be worthwhile, but your review did not offer any confidence or help in making that decision.
There is viewer feedback on these very same items if you care to look.
Ive tried various import gear cutters.. they all come from the same cookie cutter factory. they are worthless for cutting anything harder than very soft mild steel. the runout on them is horrific as well as they appear to be forged. some runout as much as 0.010 essentially turning into a single point cutter. they are ok for brass, aluminum and plastic, and even cast iron provided you have a very ridged setup... but for tough steel gears from even annealed to be hardened later? never... they claim to be quality high speed steel... and that claim is very much exaggerated.