Historian Reacts - Miscellaneous Myths: Medea by Overly Sarcastic Productions

Поділитися
Вставка
  • Опубліковано 15 гру 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 115

  • @RyanPetersonReacts
    @RyanPetersonReacts  3 роки тому +69

    Once again I apologize for my audio cutting out now and then, didn't notice it until I started editing and I don't want to re-record a reaction, I want to give my first initial reaction to videos here. Tomorrow the cutting out will be fixed.
    Links:
    Twitch: www.twitch.tv/ryanpeteslive
    Wishlist: www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/24FOSUMMSNUJW?ref_=wl_share

    • @shadowrealm4206
      @shadowrealm4206 3 роки тому +3

      Hera wasn't messing with her at 10:30 , she sent the dream to warn her that her father was on to her so she could have time to escape

    • @richardbradford3265
      @richardbradford3265 3 роки тому

      To answer ur question on whether ur gen z or not, I think the year is 1997 when either the last millenials were born, or the first gen z. For zennials, i think the years for that r 1995-2002, so u r a zennial

    • @georgiancountryball202
      @georgiancountryball202 2 роки тому

      Oh you cant imagine how angry I was at Jason I got REALLY ANGRY when HE called kingdom of cholchis or caucus or georgia by the ethnicity barbaric AND CALLED MY PEOPLE BARBARIANS like c'mon THAT KINGDOM MAYBE BEHIND GREECE WAS STILL A POWERFUL AND DEVELOPED KINGDOM AND WAS A FORCE TO BE RECKONED WITH

    • @georgiancountryball202
      @georgiancountryball202 2 роки тому

      And I also want to say that there are 2 versions of the tale 1 from greece and one from no other than georgia in georgian tale medea fell in love with jason normally with no god interference probably because we didnt believe in greek gods back then so yeah there are 2 storeys 1 good and 1 bad and also the golden fleece was easy to make back then in georgia that is because greeks didnt know how to make it so jason didnt retrieve anything what a thief

  • @lexiwexiwoo
    @lexiwexiwoo 3 роки тому +206

    It was definitely easier to be a woman in Sparta but in Athens she could live comfortably & essentially have a new life.

    • @lordnul1708
      @lordnul1708 3 роки тому +42

      Yeah, aside from the whole "needing to die of childbirth to get a grave" thing (for men it's dying in battle), but when it comes to Sparta that's literally the worst it got for women (you know, aside from a high chance of losing your kids to battle... And that's if they were born healthy).

    • @Calintares
      @Calintares 3 роки тому +29

      this is only true if you completely ignore the 90% slave population in Sparta. the women who didn't belong to the noble class did not have it nice at all.

  • @jean-paulaudette9246
    @jean-paulaudette9246 3 роки тому +99

    The deal with Jason dismembering Medea's brother: She knew their father, who was aboard a more distant pursuing ship, would stop to have all of his body parts collected from the sea, and delay all other pursuit to gather his son, for proper interment. Thus, escape.

  • @darkshadow5581
    @darkshadow5581 3 роки тому +205

    17:50 actually, Sparta treated woman probably the best of all Greek cities. In Sparta, only 2 things would give a dead person a right to a grave. Those were 1)dieing in battle, and 2) dieing in child birth. Woman were allowed votes as well if I remember correctly. Also, because it's hilarious, Spartans have wonderful one liners.

    • @Calintares
      @Calintares 3 роки тому +11

      this is only true if you completely ignore the 90% slave population in Sparta. the women who didn't belong to the noble class did not have it nice at all.

    • @darkshadow5581
      @darkshadow5581 3 роки тому +27

      @@Calintares I mean yes, but that kind of goes throughout all slave based Civilizations. Generally with statements like these, you'll be covering people seen as "their citizens" which slave based civilizations generally don't consider their slaves to be.

    • @Calintares
      @Calintares 3 роки тому +6

      @@darkshadow5581 sure, but why should we share in the biases of ancient Sparta?
      If you were going to be born a woman in Sparta the overwhelming chance was that you, be born a slave woman, and spartans treated their slaves way worse than any of the other greek city-states, and they had a much greater proportion of slaves compared to full citizens than any other socciety in ancient history.

    • @darkshadow5581
      @darkshadow5581 3 роки тому +16

      @@Calintares there is "sharing in the biases" and learning more about ancient people's that make you see them more as actual people with beliefs,
      If you were a woman born in ancient Greek time, you were gonna have a bad time. The point is between those civilizations, woman born into Spartan society were better off.
      Edit: key wording, born into Spartan Society, not as a slave. If you can't understand Spartan woman and Spartan slaves who were female are 2 different demographics, then this isn't a logical debate.

    • @Calintares
      @Calintares 3 роки тому +4

      @@darkshadow5581 The bias I'm talking about is the idea the slaves don't count, and that you can make meaningful statements about the entire society while ignoring the slaves.
      The greek historians who wrote about Sparta had that bias for sure. they didn't care about slaves one bit, they were rich snobs who cared about life for other rich snobs like themselves. But the result is that they only talk about a miniscule part of the population. Those snobs liked to talk about how great Sparta was as a way of criticizing Athens (since those places were historical rivals) and they wanted to criticize Athens because they disliked its democracy, because they were snobs.
      So those snobs liked to make statements like "Sparta was the best place for women" because they didn't care about slaves. But thats not something we should accept without putting in a bunch of asterixes. We wouldn't accept it if someone wrote about the US and looked only at the millionaires and concluded that life in the US was amazing. Likewise we sholdn't blindly accept the judgment of those ancient sources that life in Sparta was amazing.
      You're right that if you were a woman born in ancient Greek time you were gonna have a bad time. But you would have the absolute worst time if you were unlucky enough to be born in Sparta. because not only were there slaves there like in other greek city-states, but the proportion of slaves was insane. In Athens it was maybe 40% citizens, 40% slaves. But in Sparta it was 5% citizen, 85% slaves. But in addition, the slaves in Sparta were treated much worse, they could be killed for no reason by the citizens (in the other city-states it was a crime to kill a slave, not in Sparta) and it's almost certain that the women there were regularly raped.
      Sparta was the worst place to be a woman in all of ancient history if we count the slaves as well as the free people. And IMO we should count the slaves.

  • @Great_Olaf5
    @Great_Olaf5 3 роки тому +114

    Z-ennials unite!
    10:20 No, Hera wasn't on Medea's side, she was on Jason's side, Medea just so happened to line up with that.
    11:25 This is ancient Greece, as a historian, I'm sure you're well aware that the ancients did not always think of nonlethal solutions as their starting point. There's an elegant simplicity in I removing problematic people from existence, especially when your list of nonlethal options that are also in any way practical is quite short.
    17:10 Also, this whole thing puts Jason squarely in the same category of idiot as Theseus and Pirithous, or maybe Paris. The one Olympian who liked him was Hera, the goddess of marriage. And he was not only breaking his marriage vows, but doing so completely of his own free will and volition, no godly tampering involved.
    17:50 This is also old Athens, recall this story is supposed to take place before the Trojan War, two or three different things may be colliding to give them the appearance of a better attitude towards women. A) The story itself might be old, and some holdover in ideas and concepts of the older story might have been preserved, even in a source written during one of the worst periods in Athenian history for the treatment of women. B) There was a concept in philosophy around this time and a bit earlier that women of the contemporary time were interior to men, but in the past, nearer to the age of the gods, women and men were equals, most specifically I know this idea was in Plato's writing. C) Even ignoring the possibility of the previous point, there was a common belief that the gods followed different rules than mortals, thus why even the Athenians saw no contradiction in their beliefs about women in general and their worship and belief in their patron goddess, and Medea was, at the very least, the granddaughter of the god Helios, with some hints that she had once been a goddess in her own right in the distant past.
    Worth noting, that apparently the only contemporary version of the story where she murders her children is Eurypides', she brings that up in their podcast that came out yesterday.
    22:13 One last thing, technically, the verb smite follows the same strong verb paradigm as ride (ride/rode/ridden), so in that context, the proper past tense of smite would actually be smitten (or, I guess, unsmitten), which I find hilarious on multiple levels.

    • @RyanPetersonReacts
      @RyanPetersonReacts  3 роки тому +25

      sometimes I have hope that the ancients won't immediately think of murder as the solution, but every time I am proven wrong. Alfred spoiled me with his logical and pragmatic reasoning :( lol

    • @ababababy2
      @ababababy2 3 роки тому +7

      @@RyanPetersonReacts even Alfred told a story of burning a forest to catch one thief. Extremes are the only way stories work

    • @RyanPetersonReacts
      @RyanPetersonReacts  3 роки тому +10

      are you sure we are talking about the same Alfred? Alfred the Great never burnt down a whole forest to catch a thief

    • @baron-von-masky
      @baron-von-masky 3 роки тому +6

      @@RyanPetersonReacts are we talking about batman's alfred?

  • @Rwscienceguy
    @Rwscienceguy 3 роки тому +55

    21:00 of course the gods are hypocritical, they are very much the "do what I say, not what I do" types of gods.

    • @xenotypos
      @xenotypos 2 роки тому +9

      That's not really hypocritical, since as a human you're not supposed to be an equal. Greek gods were never meant to be models for humans to follow, Greek gods (as in most ancient mythologies) were meant to be feared, and to humble humans.

  • @agenttheater5
    @agenttheater5 3 роки тому +20

    25:05 It is literally Ariadne's crown in the mythology world, Dionysus gave it to her as a wedding present and when she died he threw it into the sky and made it a constellation before going to the underworld and bringing her back as a goddess.

  • @drpigglesnuudelworte5209
    @drpigglesnuudelworte5209 3 роки тому +26

    Yah in Sparta women were treated a lot better than in Athens. They could own property, exercise, they were educated, all that stuff. Only downside was that you didn’t get a Grace unless you died in childbirth, but men also didn’t get a grave unless they died in battle

    • @Calintares
      @Calintares 3 роки тому

      this is only true if you completely ignore the 90% slave population in Sparta. the women who didn't belong to the noble class did not have it nice at all.

    • @dungeonmaster3464
      @dungeonmaster3464 3 роки тому +2

      @@Calintares I've noticed you having this same argument on a bunch of different comments, but I will point out that male slaves didn't have rights either.
      In Athens for example, even women that weren't slaves didn't have many of the rights that men had, and they were treated horribly. Comparatively, non-slave women in Sparta had a lot more rights.
      I'm NOT claiming that we should ignore slavery. It's awful and nobody today would want to be born in any of the ancient Greek cities. At the same time, it's notable that each Greek city also treated their citizens differently. They had different cultural identities that led them to having different attitudes toward certain demographics.

    • @Calintares
      @Calintares 3 роки тому

      @@dungeonmaster3464 The issue is that the full citizen women of Sparta were only at most maybe 4000 people out of a total of 119 000 women who lived in the area.
      comparatively, in Athens there were 30 000 full citizen women out of a total of 76 000 women who lived in the city. Meaning that if you're comaring women of citizen status in Sparta to women of citizen status in Athens then you're comparing the top 4% in Sparta to the top 40% who lived in Athens and that's a strange comparison to be making.
      If I made a comparison between Mexico and Canada, but I looked at the top 4% in Mexico and compared it to the top 40% in Canada then I could claim that they have it so much better in Mexico, truly it is a much better country. But everyone should see through that as a false comparison. Yet that is the thing the ancient historians are doing because they want Sparta to look good, and so that is the false image that is circulating in popular culture. It'd be like only ever speaking of the Millionaires when speaking of the US.
      as for slaves I'll reiterate that slaves were treated way worse in Sparta than in anywhere else. An interesting part of this is that it was still counted as murder in Athens if you killed a slave, and throughout Greece it was still seen as a religious taboo to kill a slave, the only place this wasn't true was in Sparta. they ritually declared war on their slaves every single year, and the graduation ceremony of their child rearing indoctrination system was to murder a slave.

    • @dungeonmaster3464
      @dungeonmaster3464 3 роки тому +3

      @@Calintares I doubt anyone wants to make the Spartan's look good. They were warmongers and slavers.
      Historians emphasize that high born women in Sparta had rights because it's so surprising. Cultures all over the world have historically treated women like tools.
      Spartans treated their slaves horribly, and many of their slaves were women. But the fact that high born women in Sparta had all these rights means that their culture didn't single out women like so many others. Even the top 4% of women in Athens didn't have the rights that the top 4% of women in Sparta had

    • @sevenrings9450
      @sevenrings9450 2 роки тому

      Heh, I’d take dying naturally and no grave than dying on the battlefield and getting a grave.

  • @HotDogTimeMachine385
    @HotDogTimeMachine385 3 роки тому +16

    "Hey, that's a big jump"
    She was a puppet by the gods used to help out this other hero. If a decides you're his plaything you don't have much autonomy in that.

  • @lucasgray1492
    @lucasgray1492 3 роки тому +91

    The fact that anyone doesn't know anything about Medea is shocking. And surprises me to no avail....

    • @vibevibevibemcommentedtoda5717
      @vibevibevibemcommentedtoda5717 3 роки тому

      Unless they're You're Throne fans from 2019.

    • @recjr7685
      @recjr7685 3 роки тому

      True, I thought everyone who ever appeared in a Fate anime was super well known due to watchers researching that character so they could complain on the internet over how badly the show fudged up their back story

    • @lucasgray1492
      @lucasgray1492 3 роки тому +4

      @@recjr7685 I love that you assume I meant Fate. Fate’s amazing, but also Medea is literally one of the most common Greek mythological names that come up when thinking or talking about Greek mythology.

    • @recjr7685
      @recjr7685 3 роки тому

      @@lucasgray1492 ah, that makes sense

  • @WorldWeave
    @WorldWeave Рік тому +1

    “It’s murder, the plan is murder”

  • @PainCausingSamurai
    @PainCausingSamurai 3 роки тому +51

    I loved the artwork in this episode. Red has become very skilled at portraying complex emotions in her character design

  • @jean-paulaudette9246
    @jean-paulaudette9246 3 роки тому +17

    I think "Athens treated women comparatively well" is an overstatement...Perhaps better to say "Some few treated women pretty well, and this one of them was king of Athens, at the time."

  • @mxstrikk
    @mxstrikk 3 роки тому +17

    I actually did a paper back in my freshman year of college for an English class that talks about that generation stuff. It was about Juvenoia, and how generational groups (their names and hypothetical time-periods) make no sense. With the exception of the baby-boomers, all of the other generational groups have inconsistent starting and stopping times, and most of them are based off this old culty, pseudo-science belief that makes no sense. I'm also a millennial and a Gen Z-er, so I appreciate that Z-llennial idea!

  • @ms_scribbles
    @ms_scribbles 3 роки тому +25

    Oh...god...stop telling me when you were born. I feel old enough already without you reminding me that you were born after I had already graduated high school. (Class of '95 represent!) 😂

  • @partyrock4144
    @partyrock4144 3 роки тому +28

    To me medea will always be the best housewife and a *RULE BREAKER* !!

    • @medusashusband4680
      @medusashusband4680 3 роки тому +3

      *ABSOLUTE BEST CASTER*

    • @georgiancountryball202
      @georgiancountryball202 2 роки тому +3

      She truly was the best woman in greek legends not counting goddesses even tho I dont think there are many that are better than medea

  • @Bingus501
    @Bingus501 2 роки тому +1

    5:49 Orpheus I’m pretty sure is that guy who went to hades asking to revive his wife and was told to just not look at her til he was out of hell but he didn’t and now is sad cus he can’t listen to simple instructions

  • @ZKP314
    @ZKP314 2 роки тому +6

    That whole bit with the kids is kinda explained by a comment on the original vid, but basically he never considered them his until they died, and that effectively ended Jason’s lineage in one fell swoop-a fitting punishment for someone who tried to obtain prestige by breaking his oath of marriage.

  • @Krokmaniak
    @Krokmaniak 3 роки тому +8

    For what I remember Spartan women had high status in society comparing to Athens

    • @Calintares
      @Calintares 3 роки тому

      this is only true if you completely ignore the 90% slave population in Sparta. the women who didn't belong to the noble class did not have it nice at all.

  • @ianburns1167
    @ianburns1167 3 роки тому +4

    So the old Harryhausen film you saw covers the Argonautica plus or minus...well... a lot. But it covers the Argonautica.
    It ends with Hera seeing the future, getting sad, and Zeus telling her to let to them have the moment before it all goes wrong.

    • @ZKP314
      @ZKP314 2 роки тому

      Later…
      Zeus: WHAT THE F***?!
      Hera: No you know how I feel.
      Zeus:…you know what, just this once, I’ll join you on the shenanigans.

  • @stanleyteriaca2184
    @stanleyteriaca2184 3 роки тому +17

    You haven't herd of Madiea? You never seen a Tyler Perry play, have you?

  • @RoseProseFroze
    @RoseProseFroze 3 роки тому +15

    Have hyou ever considered covering Blue's videos? He's the historian of the pair after all.
    I suggest his video on Alcibiades to start.

  • @HistoryMonarch1999
    @HistoryMonarch1999 3 роки тому +11

    *does a pose at **7:28*
    Me: oh no I’ve even seduced

  • @Zahri8Alang
    @Zahri8Alang 3 роки тому +10

    Jason shouldve got his come uppance earlier.He doesnt even deserve any of the glory

  • @agenttheater5
    @agenttheater5 2 роки тому +2

    21:21 Exactly. They're gods, they can get away with it. We're mortals, we can't.

  • @lefterismplanas4977
    @lefterismplanas4977 2 роки тому +4

    I'm a Zeleniap and I like your reaction.
    You're going out of your way to add more value instead of letting it play all the way through with minimal effort.
    It still may not feel perfect, but it one of the best formats I've seen
    The best for osp

    • @RyanPetersonReacts
      @RyanPetersonReacts  2 роки тому +1

      thank you :) that means a lot

    • @lefterismplanas4977
      @lefterismplanas4977 2 роки тому

      @@RyanPetersonReactsand I meant to say that I am a Greek don't know what my tablet wrote there xD

  • @ZKP314
    @ZKP314 2 роки тому +3

    One of the few times where the versions from Fate are shockingly accurate to their myths.
    She also gets a person she’s happy with in the form of an assassin turned teacher following him accidentally killing said teacher and then taking his identity for reasons. All to maybe kill a hyperactive Tiger Mom-like dojo master.
    Nasu has some wild shit written down.

    • @jacthing1
      @jacthing1 3 місяці тому

      who was the dojo master?

  • @daniellegroves4830
    @daniellegroves4830 3 роки тому +4

    I was born 95 so I could be a millenial and be one of the the youngest of a generation or gen z and the oldest of a generation...I choose millenial.
    Ps. A book I read said that (at least after the 2nd Persian war) Athens had developed a tradition or competition where you write a epic but they have to have three stories. (Kind of like the common trilogy thing we have now) Now I know these were written probably before that but I like to think there is a 3rd Medea book out there.
    PSS. Jason...being half siblings to royalty is just asking for sibling murder...thats almost exactly what happen to your Dad.

  • @saber1epee0
    @saber1epee0 3 роки тому +4

    I'm 1993 and my little zzilenial brother is the absolute best.
    Cheers to your generation.

  • @philipholder5600
    @philipholder5600 3 роки тому +3

    Media is very famous. Very,very

  • @fairiesandlillies3471
    @fairiesandlillies3471 3 роки тому +3

    So the hero is like the parentes in runaways?

  • @ginathompson982
    @ginathompson982 3 роки тому +5

    Yay, fellow ambiguous gen kid! 1997 for me, zellenial is a good term.

  • @phictionofgrandeur2387
    @phictionofgrandeur2387 Рік тому +1

    I'm also a Zillennial.

  • @gerstelb
    @gerstelb 3 роки тому

    I personally love Robert Graves’ adaptation of the story of Jason, “Hercules, My Shipmate.” I think some of his speculations regarding the pre-Olympian Greek religion have proven to be highly inaccurate, but they made for a good story.

  • @jef_3006
    @jef_3006 3 роки тому +2

    I'm a Zellennial. I remember both when we got Netflix before I was even in middle school, and when I could only watch Star Wars on VHS.

  • @barbaragarb9453
    @barbaragarb9453 2 роки тому

    Athens was named after the greek god Athena. I don;t know anything either but if they respected woman i'd guess it had something to do with her

  • @lamontwatters5892
    @lamontwatters5892 3 роки тому +2

    Didn't the Spartans Respec Women and old people

    • @Calintares
      @Calintares 3 роки тому +2

      yeah, kind of. but that does require you completely ignore the 90% slave population in Sparta.

  • @jennifermarks2015
    @jennifermarks2015 2 роки тому

    Anyone find it odd that Jason compares Medea to Ariadne and later Medea marries Aegeus who should already have committed suicide at this time? 🤔

  • @STICKERBOMB-
    @STICKERBOMB- 2 роки тому

    love your videos

  • @Agent0504
    @Agent0504 3 роки тому +1

    Zillenial squad unite!! 🎉🙌🏻

  • @PalKia002
    @PalKia002 3 місяці тому

    i get my mcnuggies from mcdonalds

  • @rosemaze8767
    @rosemaze8767 3 роки тому +3

    Yes!! Athens was very good to women, this is because it was founded for and named after Athena.

  • @kupaakaleo137
    @kupaakaleo137 3 роки тому +3

    7:23 Ryan please stop 🙈 it hurts Ryan

  • @thatlawnmowerguy9
    @thatlawnmowerguy9 3 роки тому +9

    Why are you so awesome?

  • @marionette8739
    @marionette8739 3 роки тому

    1996 B-DAY POG!

  • @untruelie2640
    @untruelie2640 3 роки тому +2

    Does that mean... that I'm a Z-lennial too? oO

    • @RyanPetersonReacts
      @RyanPetersonReacts  3 роки тому +2

      if your years match up with what I said, yes.

    • @IONATVS
      @IONATVS 3 роки тому +1

      My younger brother is in the Z-lennial border zone too. Tho since he has memories of 9/11 so shares that defining national trauma with most millenials and he has clearly millenial older brothers I generally think of him as millennial for convenience.
      Plenty of other fun border generations when you look into it, like the Xennials and miniboomers (between baby boom & gen-X, a little “bump” in the births chart which as a combo of some children of silent generationers and greatest generation’s little ‘accident’ when their main crop of boomer babies were in high school out and they didn’t think they could have kids anymore) tho since generations are ultimately a fairly arbitrary line anyway whether you treat the transitional periods as part of one or the other or their own thing is really a you-do-you.

    • @untruelie2640
      @untruelie2640 3 роки тому +1

      @@IONATVS Let's be honest, the whole concept of clearly definable generations is nonsense. It's always a simplified categorization that doesn't really tell you anything about people. Besides, even Plato complained about the youth ("they are lazy, don't respect elders", etc.) and so has everyone since. ;)

  • @saber1epee0
    @saber1epee0 Рік тому

    96 is definitely ZZlenial , obviously its your choice but i think it breaks on where you are re: any siblings.
    My youngest brother is 96... Definitely millenial.
    Some of my coworkers are the oldest kid in their family and born in 96, and I would definitely say theyre GenZ

  • @nonames6612
    @nonames6612 3 роки тому +3

    30 years war by Extra credit or Kings and Generals

  • @johnwest1780
    @johnwest1780 3 роки тому +2

    Do you need to pause every 10 seconds?

  • @berilsevvalbekret772
    @berilsevvalbekret772 2 роки тому

    please stop stopping every.fucking.second

    • @zephyruswind6590
      @zephyruswind6590 2 роки тому +1

      It's a reaction video dude 😭 if you want to see the video just watch the original