Metallic paper for prints - does it work for your prints? Why use it?
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- Опубліковано 27 лис 2022
- Keith looks at two metallic papers from Red River paper in the USA
Polar Luster and Gloss are 255 gsm RC style photo papers.
Making profiles and test prints show how the unique surface finish works well for certain types of images.
Are they worthwhile for your styles of image? Colour and B&W example prints show what sorts of photos Keith might think of them for.
The papers:
www.redrivercatalog.com/brows...
See also Keith's tests of a similar UK paper at:
www.northlight-images.co.uk/p... - Фільми й анімація
Since discovering your great channel and taking the excellent guidance I have printed and framed so many more pictures than I ever have. They are freed from the computer at last, thank you so much.
Thanks - that's really nice to hear!
Well, until I watched this I had a totally different idea of what a metallic paper was - and I was not even close! Very glad you got a chance too cover these papers.
Thanks - I do have some from quite a while ago which feels more 'metal' but I never really found a use for it
Hello Keith,
I tried those 2 papers in 10x15 for high satured colors HDR and that is just fantastic.
The color rendering with the metallic effect is gorgeous.
I didn't think trying that for flowers for instance but I'll give it a shot.
I'm on to buy 13x19 size of them now 👍
I tested this with Epson xp 15000.
Yes, get the right images and the look is quite special...
Metallic is tricky. I found it's really bad at showing details in the shadows for example. But at the same time I do love it when I do have a lot of light in my shots and especially in the shots that are at the border of abstract and figurative if that makes any sense. Thank you for this I always appreciate your honest opinion.
Thanks - yes, the Hahnemuhle one I recently tested with the P5300 was the most challenging quality paper I've tried.
@@KeithCooper 340gsm feels great and looks amazing when you work on the right shot though I'm working on Pixma pro 200
Keith Cooper - mind reader! We bought a beautiful print from a now deceased photographer. It is on metallic paper and looks stunning. I am awaiting my first printer and was keen to try and replicate the feel of of his photograph as the metallic paper adds a certain feel to his image. This answers my queries!
Excellent - glad to have helped!
Thank you for this review! I love these papers from Red River and use them with mixed results. It really does matter what the image is that your printing and what you want as an outcome. Excellent analysis and opinion.
Thanks - glad it was of interest
I found that really interesting Keith. I've never bothered with metallic papers before so interesting to see how you got on with them. :-)
Thanks - I've another even glossier one to have a look at with dye ink (on the pro-200)
Perfect timing!! I just purchased a box of RedRiver Metallic paper last week. I've used Epson metallic, but I find RedRiver paper so much easier to get in the sizes I use (like 13x38) that I've standardized in RR. Of course, since I also live in Texas where RR is manufactured, the shipping times are fairly short. I'll be doing some test prints on the Epson P900 in the next couple of weeks and will review this video again before then. Thanks :)
Thanks - glad it was of interest
I've ordered from RR twice from Chicago. 2-3 day delivery time. Thats fast in my book for the free shipping!!
Exactly the information I was looking for
Thanks - glad it was of help
I just purchased an Epson 8550 wide format printer, so I was just perusing possibilities...where do I send the check to receive my diploma of completion for this video???!!!! Outstandingly thorough and we ALL benefit from your obvious years of expertise. THANKS!!!
Thanks - I'd not thought of certificates ;-) ;-)
Perfect timing! I was going back and forth with samples... trying to decide if I wanted to go metallic for a specific art print. I am going with a different finish, but I do have a B&W that I think would look fantastic, though. Thanks Keith!
Glad it was helpful!
I'm in the Love it camp right now. I think it works really well for small snaps that you can handle like 4x6 or 5x7. You move the print a lot when viewing and it set off the metallics across the image.
Yes, getting it to 'work' is definitely more difficult once you look at displaying large prints.
I'm really looking forward to take and print a very specific picture I have in my mind (My lovely Triumph Bonneville with an astro-like picture in the sky) as I think it will really look amazing 🤞🥳
Sounds good - the right paper really makes a print.
I've been using both of these papers for some time. The gloss version is used for my over the top HDR stuff and it is very good with that sort of print. I use the satin version for some of my B&W stuff as it shows the contrast quiet nicely, but it doesn't have that overt glossy look which I don't care for when printing B&W. I use a P800. Nice video!
Thanks - knowing which images work is the key
Great way of describing the characteristics & use of these papers. I have some of the RR Metalic from a few sample packs I have ordered. Has a sort of greyish/silver tint to it unprinted (2:05) to my eye. My first thought was it would be good for a modern silver & black glass type architectural print like the ones that are seen in big cities like NY. If that Gummi Bear semiconductor photo is yours, excellent work.
Thanks!
Yes, the 'greyness' can be off-putting - the right image really does stand out on it though.
I have a 'making of' article about the bears pic if you're curious...
www.northlight-images.co.uk/macro-photography-for-trade-stand/
As a printer one of the questions I am often asked is "can you make metal prints...?" I think a video explaining the differences of printing on metallic paper on an inkjet vs metal substrate via dye sublimation would be beneficial
Ah, get someone to send me a printer which takes metal and is dye sub and I'll happily do so ;-)
Sorry - just don't have the kit for this...
@@KeithCooper Completely concur. I meant more of a head to head FAQ on just the tech differences between the two. Maybe send the same print out to be printed on aluminum as well as print one on convention aqueous metallic media and compare and contrast. People often say that even with the limited gamut of the dye sub, it looks so much more vibrant than anything that can be printed via inkjet with 12 colors
A good idea, but not something I can really afford just for testing.
I'd want to produce some known test images and profiles to do it 'properly'
Ah as a printer why not buy one if you are getting clients asking then there is a need.
Decided to create a sample pack from Red River. About 25 different types, 2 sheets each. Should be great for testing and creating ICC profiles on my printer.
Personally I always ask for an absolute minimum of five [A3+ or A3] sheets - one for making a colour profile, one for B&W test/profile print and two for printing test photos - the fifth sheet is for if I mess up one of the others ;-)
But seriously, if someone asks me to test a paper when I've a new printer, I want at least a dozen sheets
@@KeithCooper I am looking to narrow down the set based on the sample pack. Having not really printed any photographic prints yet, I have a lot of catching up to do with a minimum of funds. 🙂
So informative - and interesting point about who is 'judging' the work. Who is your audience? You may love a particular look and feel, which is persnal to you, but if you care about your main audience, then that may influence your choice of paper? Really enjoyed this one Keith, thank you for taking the time and deliberation. I myself feel I will definitely be using the metalic a fair bit, unless reflections are an issue. Great stuff!
Thanks - I find a lot of photographers feel that playing to audience, somehow dilutes their 'vision'. Personally it indicates a much greater feel for why you are creating images [of course, doing it for a living helps with that!]
I've so far only used Epson Metallic Paper Luster (and only to a very limited amount) but it's been very effective with inherently reflective subject matter (as borne out by your architectural example). As you often pint out, the right paper makes all the difference and that depends on the image. Metallic certainly has its place alongside baryta, other "fine art" papers, and my default luster. Alternatives are worth trying but I like the results I'm getting (RR does make some nice paper).
Knowing your basic papers is always worthwhile.
I've many boxes (and rolls) from testing over the years which simply won't ever get used for 'real'.
I use both these metallic papers from red river. and for images taken with my full spectrum converted Canon RP with a 850nm filter, they come out stunning. The blacks draw you right in. The other type I think they work well with is normal color photos of foggy / misty morning photos in the forest, especially in the autumn, the paper really makes the leaves and fog pop (for a better word)
Thanks - glad it gave the feel for the papers.
what printer to you use?
@@peacerebelgirl several - the P5000 is the biggest in the office.
So you would recommend the metallic paper for misty forest shots? I can't decide if I should get it done in metallic or matte paper, it will be framed with non reflective glass.
Made some prints with a Canon Pro-100s on Sihl metallic papers. Good results of photographs of Oldtimers with a lot of chrome details and with saturated colors. Red cars with polished surfaces were the best.
yes, the right subjects really work well...
Just tried a few test prints (Canon Pro100) on some Hannemuhle Tag 340 Metallic and just not finding the right prints. Actually, I did find one which was an image of some shiny silver tables and chairs but it wasn't a particularly interesting image :) Enjoyed the test and talk through Keith, as always.
Thanks - I looked through quite a few images to find ones which positively worked on the papers, rather than just looked 'ok'.
@@KeithCooper I can certainly see the potential and it's something I'll keep in mind as I take more images. I'm hoping soon to take a shot of a welder working in a factory and the sparks and metals might just work. Trial and error (like most of my photography 😂 )
Years ago when I first experimented with metallic papers, I thought they would work for achieving lots of saturation pop. I was quickly disappointed and found some of the RC papers I was using were equivalent or better in that regard. I save my metallic papers for images with lots of silver color such as reflections off of water or misty/foggy conditions. They also work for some B&W images, mostly high key images where I want to emphasize the whites but without stark contrast. I have not found them any better for blacks than the equivalent, non-metallic papers.
Yes - very much papers to match your personal tastes.
When I was young, I gave a try to anodized aluminum sheets (analog photography, Brand was ALUPHOT or maybe PHOTALU ). It used to have good rendition on graphical scenes in black and white.
Very useful video as usual. However it is really difficult to see the metallic effect on video. Perhaps it could be great to show a closer look of a "classical" paper of the same picture near to it.
Thanks - the problem is that the 'metallic effect' is actually quite difficult to show.
See the example photos in this other metallic paper - one I was very impressed with
www.northlight-images.co.uk/permajet-titanium-gloss-300-metallic/
This is another example where I think the written article allows me to better show detail in photos.
We just bought an ET-8550 for my daughter's proposed anime art business based on your guidance and your advice on how to use the printer and the pros/cons of these various paper types has been simply invaluable. One area where we would appreciate some guidance (apologies if this was already done somewhere) is the relationship between the the two media configuration sections of the Epson Print Layout software. You have the section on top which selects media type and the section below where you input the ICC configuration. The use of the lower section seems fairly clear and we've successfully loaded the Red River ICC profile zip file. However the process for using the media selection menu isn't clear and I have been unable to find an instruction manual for the software. In one of your videos you use and select VFA in the upper media menu, but often there isn't such a neat match between the paper chosen and the available options. Thanks!
Have a read of the main [written] 8550 review - far more info [and links] there than any of my videos
www.northlight-images.co.uk/epson-et-8550-printer-review/
@@KeithCooper Thank you so much !
Keith, thanks for mentioning how pigment inks could diminish the reflective nature of the paper. I had never heard that before, but makes sense. So maybe metallic and other reflective papers are best used with dye based inks instead. I don't know why I haven't heard this before.
Having said that, I didn't realize that there are apparently no large size, 44" or so dye based printers, based on what you said in another video. I haven't looked into this for awhile.
Indeed, I can't remember a large format dye option for over 15 yrs
@@KeithCooper I'm trying to remember then what the difference was, or maybe still is between Canon and Epson's large format printers. Epson printers, using pigment inks were known for easily clogging, but Canon's nozzles heated the ink, I'm thinking, and didn't easily clog.
Has Canon been using pigment inks too? I thought maybe they were using a different kind of ink, and that it might have been dye. But maybe they just used a different method of applying pigment inks, using heat?
I don't understand why Canon printers clogged less if they were also using pigment inks. Would love to know.
Two very different head technologies - Canon pigments go back years too [I've lots of written reviews]
Canon printhead were designed with redundancy and were listed as 'consumables'
Quite a different approach
Both needed regular use to keep them at their best...
i love my red river metallic paper.
Yes - very much a matter of personal tastes and choice
Interesting review Keith. Many moons ago in my teens I used Kentmere metallic in the darkroom, made a b&w print of a steam train with good results. Not sure if I will try metallic with digital, but useful to know the option is there.
Any chance of a comparison between the Canon pro 300 and the Canon Pro 1000? I’m torn between the two
Thanks
Re: 1000/300 Difficulty is that my [very] detailed PRO-1000 review long predates my making videos.
Given the age of the PRO-1000 I doubt I can get one to experiment with. You'll not likely see this [as a video] until I'm testing a replacement for the 1000 [no idea when...]
Best I can say is read both reviews... ;-)
Really cool papers. I wonder if there is something like this that also works with color laser printers?
I don't know but I suspect the laser inks would sit on the surface and bot show the high gloss feature of the paper.
Do you still have a P700/P900 around? I'd be interested to see how these are for gloss differential and bronzing on those printers. I've had good results on that front with the Moab Slickrock Metallic Pearl paper. Much better than the Epson metallic papers, which along with their ultra premium photo luster paper are some of the worst I've tried in that respect. Thanks for all the great content!
Sorry, the 700 & 900 went back to Epson
Only the (similar) P5000 to test here - the 7/900 seem to exacerbate the bronzing at finer resolutions [see my 700/900 [written] articles for far more about this]
Hi Keith. I do astrophotography/nightscape imaging and I'm struggling to know which paper would work best for printing my images. Would you have a idea? I use a dye base printer (Epson xp15000) and was thinking a very glossy or metallic paper would be the right choice.
One like here or this might be a good one to test
www.northlight-images.co.uk/permajet-titanium-gloss-300-metallic/
How would these work on a cheap ix6820 using inkowl ink? Maybe ill just buy it and find out myself. Im framing some cut autographs and need some quality photos with a punch
Unknown... I don't know the printer or onks
A custom icc profile will of course help
Kieth, Do you have any experience with Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Metallic 340..?? I have just ordered some to use in my Prograf 300 and I was curious if you had any suggestions about settings etc.
Not one I've tried. the Hahnemuhle site will have specs and likely a datasheet which includes optimal media settings
Thank you Kieth. I went to their website but could not find what media type settings they recommend. Maybe I missed something@@KeithCooper
make sure you get the product datasheet [pdf] and download a profile - the profile package should have info in a readme. The media setting could also be abbreviated in the profile name
I don't know the paper, so I'm not sure where you'll find it, but they almost always include the relevant info @@MDanceInc
ok, I will dig a little deeper. Thanks again
@@KeithCooper
Giving us permission or a nudge to experiment. Thanks
Yes - take nobody's word for it! ;-)
"You absolutely cannot print on the back." And if I do? Ink transfer, perhaps to wood?
Ink transfer to the rollers and inside of the printer are more likely ;-)