Are metallic papers good for your prints? Hahnemühle Photo Rag Metallic 340. What images work?
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- Опубліковано 5 сер 2024
- What images work with a metallic paper such as Hahnemühle Photo Rag Metallic 340? Paper characteristics and testing with pigment inks on the Epson P5300 [P5370]
More info about Hahnemühle Photo Rag Metallic 340
www.hahnemuehle.co.uk/photo-r...
My standard test images are available from:
www.northlight-images.co.uk/p...
and B&W from www.northlight-images.co.uk/t...
The glossy metallic paper I mentioned in the video is www.northlight-images.co.uk/p...
I'm testing this fine art paper on the Epson P5300 [P5370] pigment ink printer for colour, and black and white. The ink set of the P5300 is the same as the smaller P700 and P900.
The P5300 [P5370 in the US] is here for me to produce a detailed review, which will cover all aspects of using the printer as well as compare it with the 17" P900 and P5000 printers. Epson's new high end photo/art printer has 10 pigment inks, 200ml carts, roll paper [with cutter] Sheet paper cassette holds up to 17"x22" and A2 paper.
For a full index of all my videos, see:
www.northlight-images.co.uk/k...
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I've been using this paper since release (when I can afford it) and I love it. Since getting interested in paper I've tried a lot of different types, finding that there are only subtle differences between most of them. This stuff though, I absolutely love. As you mention in the video, it's really important to make sure the image is right for the paper, and only by doing expensive test prints can you figure that out. I used to run a photography course, and on my lesson on printing and paper, pulling out a print on this stuff always (without fail) made people's jaws drop. There's definitely a place for "dramatic" papers like this and with the mournful cease of production of Slickrock's "Metallic Silver" and Museo's "Silver Rag" I'm just hoping Hahnemuhle keep on making it. If you have anything left on the roll and want to donate to a worthy cause, let me know. :) I'm not bothered by the loss of the bright highlights, and indeed have a similar orchid image in B&W that my wife also wanted on the wall on that paper. The highlights look fine to me, and you can only really see that "dullness" when it's right next to another print. Overthinking can be a curse! Thanks for the video as always.
Thanks. I suspect it's also a paper which also shows up deficiencies in print workflows ;-)
One suggestion to this problem is to buy the metallic photo tins that they sell. They come in 6x4 or a5 sizes.
Hi Keith! I have been patiently waiting for your review of this paper and now you've done it. I was initially very excited trying it on my Epson P800 and since 95% of my work is black and white, I thought it would be a great platform. But you are correct: for the right image. This paper picks the image it likes, not the photographer. I would recommend it but be prepared to "work" to get the combination of image and paper that shines.
Thanks - that's a good description.
I have a couple of sheets of Hahnemühle Photo Rag Metallic 340 in a sampler that I've yet to try, but the results I got from Epson's Metallic Luster (with my P900) were good enough for me to obtain more (in A3 so far). It works particularly well for surfaces with some inherent sheen (I shoot a lot of things like ice formations). I do a significant amount of B&W, but often prefer subtle color, and I'll have to see how the Hahne version works for those. I still generally prefer baryta for such images, but metallic certainly can produce striking results, especially in low-key shots with bas relief accentuated by side lighting. I have a similar image to your North Sea of breaking surf at sunrise that I've printed in B&W (so much for "golden hour"--intentionally eschewing that) but not on metallic--I may have to try that. I see a bit of similarity to silver-gelatin prints (also for baryta, of course), and that's a good thing in my book.
Yes - this one is a challenge, but worthwhile.
Love Snape, and only 20ish miles from home. I reckon your lead in image, the John Lewis building with the bridge would look stonking on that paper. Also I believe images with reflections would work well too. I'll have to get some and give it a go...
Thanks - I'd not thought of that image.
I'll be down in Aldeburgh weekend after next, sorting some family business in Ipswich [but not staying there!]
My favorite paper at the moment is Permajet Titanium Gloss. Followed by their Titanium Luster which I love for Mono images where depending on how you hold it you get a metallic sheen, I HATE gloss papers normally as I associate them with El-cheapo crappy photos people typically order in bulk etc But the Titanium gloss won me over, Mono Portraits are lovely, and it prints great in colour too.
Yes - that's the one I mentioned in the video
Relatively limited uses for me, but when it works, it looks excellent
I see that Keith did a written review on titanium gloss at his site, Northlight Images: "Review: Titanium Gloss 300 metallic paper."
Thanks for this video. I love this paper, got it and was curious how epson will cope with it. I used to print a lot my pictures from Iceland and Norway, with Ice and snow, and never had any issues with whites. I just looked at my pictures again. Whites are great. Instead - At the beginning I struggled with achieving deep blacks. I tried various setting on Canon Pro-1000 and at the and I managed to get very good results. I see great blacks on the print with flower. Quite decent as you say.
Waiting for your final review of the printer however we already know what you gonna say about it. :)
Thanks. Yes, this is a paper to challenge your printmaking!
I've two videos left to do, since the printer goes back next week.
The first is a P900 vs P5300 one and the second is the 'review' to go with the main written review...
Thanks for the video Keith. I have a P700 and have used Red River Polar Gloss Metallic 255 paper with good results. (They also have a luster version.) RR has profiles available for this combo. I seldom shoot or process B&W, so my results are in color. Do you suppose most of what you said in this video would likely apply to RR?
Thanks - some would refer to that, but the Hahnemuhle one is quite distinctive...
See here though for some RR info
studio.ua-cam.com/users/videon587XuN5x3I/edit
I have a proper index of all my videos at
www.northlight-images.co.uk/keith-cooper-photography-videos-index/
Created because YT is utterly useless for curating/indexing any sizeable collection of videos ;-)
Hi Keith! Could you tell, what's the other metallic gloss paper you've mentioned in this review? I think it's the one you shown in some other reviews with Leicester city center night shot, but you mentioned just metallic gloss there as well.
In the notes... PJ Ti300
I have tried some of this paper recently and could find no use for it...on the other hand, I just tried the Red River Polar Gloss Metallic and was blown away...It is gorgeous paper...
Indeed - very much dependent on image type and personal tastes
I have vastly more print images which won't work on it than will - the choice of clients matters too [OK, Karen in this instance - who made a brief uncredited appearance in the videos]
Interesting! So you liked the Red River Metallic over the Hahnemuhle Metallic? Are the finishes the same?
No, The finishes are night and day different...The red river Polar Luster Metallic is just incredible. The red river polar gloss metallic is a bit bling, but it also really pops. I used it for some smoothie lake with mountain reflections on the water with it and it was incredible but it is smoother than the Luster metallic. I did some wildlife on the luster metallic and it was second to none. I am printing on a Pro-300 with a calibrated Benq SW2702U monitor@@mje1625
True, I'm sure there are some use case scenarios for it but for the cost of it I am not willing to experiment...!!@@KeithCooper
I have and use both of these papers. I find I like the effect metallic papers have on vibrant colors. For me, it comes down to texture when I select which paper. The matte finish on the Hahnemühle paper can add to some images and distract in others. Guess that’s why it’s called personal taste.
BTW Keith, hadn’t thought about using this paper for flower images. I live in a small desert community, and I’m waiting to see if we get a good spring desert flower bloom this year. I’ll have to give it a try.
Mr. Keith Cooper, When printing on metallic papers, do you have an overall preference between dye inks and pigment inks?
No - Depends on the particular paper and what I want the pictures for.
'Metallic' is a marketing term from my POV, so I very much treat such papers on a case by case basis. I do have another one I tested on the 5300. Olmec 'metallic' - one of the ones with a pinkish 'glow'.
On a very glossy paper like the Titanium gloss 300, they look really great with dyes like the PRO-200. Dye on this gives much more of a look of a transparency.
On the Photo rag metallic, I like the look of pigments on it - a much duller feel.
Of course dyes are not archival, so for prints to sell, I'd prefer the pigment. I don't have a dye printer here a the moment to test any of the HM Metallic.
Hello Keith, can you send the icc profil you created for this paper ? I would try it with my P900 and compare it to the Hahnemhule one. If the result is better do you sell this profil ? What is your price ? Best regards, Stephane.
All my profiles will be available for the P5300 when I've finished the written review - however email me at Northlight?
All I ask for any profiles is a Kofi donation if they are of use ;-)
Can you adjust the platen gap settings on the P5300/5370 from the printer's LCD panel menu?
On the P900, I've only ever been able to see & adjust the paper thickness setting, but never actually seen a "platen gap" adjustment setting.
Yes. Platen gap is normally set to auto, but can be set between 0.9 and 2.6mm.
The auto setting comes from the media specifications
There is no media thickness setting - other than when creating custom media types, based on an existing one and modified
Media can also have custom calibrations and the vacuum and back tension settings [roll] can be altered
@@KeithCooperThanks. If I wanted to set it for a baryta type paper in the 310-325 range or a fine art paper from Hahnemuhle or Canson, what platen gap settings would you use?
I've not set it at all in my general testing... [did mention the vacuum system ;-) ]
For a custom media I'd enter the thickness of the paper into the settings [this sets the 'auto' value]
I use a micrometer to measure thickness if I can't get the correct info from the paper specs
@@KeithCooper 👍
I'm curious to try this paper on my Epson ET8550 - but ICC profiles are not provided by Hahnemühle on their website. Could the XP15000 profile they offer be used instead with decent results? Thanks for all the great work Keith!
No - other printer profiles rarely work - the 15000 is a very different ink set. Also this paper is quite unusual in its characteristics, so a profile is more important.
I'd buy some from a supplier who makes free profiles...
I got lucky enough to buy at a very good price a roll of this metallic paper from a user who was giving up printing. I made an icc profile for my Epson ET-8550 (with Calibrite color checker studio). I was very surprised to see my first prints, it was quite disapointing. I realised that not every image works with this paper, so I use it quite rarely. Be aware this is an expensive paper you can’t print everything on. My children love the prints I made with this paper, not me :-(
What media setting did you use for profiling? The ink set of the 8550 is not one I might pick for a paper like this...
@@KeithCooper Hello Mr Cooper ! As i didn’t know where to start, i cut out off the roll four A4 sheets and printed my charts using mat, semigloss, luster and glossy. Luster gave the best results, but the truth is the ET-8550 ink set isn’t made for this paper. Thanks for your work, best regards
Thanks - yes, baryta is probably the weakest performing paper type on the 8550@@TheDusoul
After reading and watching many positive reviews on this paper, I ordered some and was excited to print my black and white images (seldom photograph color). But, as you pointed out, the whites/highlights are muted. I think calling them warm is being kind. For me the whites are dull, almost like there's a film over them, when compared to their glossy baryta papers. I understand and appreciate that the metallic paper is good for some images and not so good for others. But I like the uniformity and consistence of printing exclusively with a single brand/type of paper. Changing paper to "match" an image seems like a waste of time, material, and money. I really wanted to like this paper, but I'm going to pass. For sale: 8.5x11 24 sheets.
Warm is more a technical term here based on the profiling numbers. It is absolutely meant to be very different to other baryta papers. Yes, it is an unusual paper - if it works for you, it's excellent... otherwise...
Very much a personal taste.
As to matching papers and images, its an integral part of my large [A3+ and above] print workflow... YMMV ;-)
So, you print one image and complete dismiss this paper? You should at least get a custom icc profile and do more testing before wholly dismissing the paper after only printing one image.
I totally agree...!!
If only they could figure out how to print on black velvet.
You can - just not with the inks in any printer I'm using ;-)
Elvis photos? 😉