Eowyn actually expressively stated that she want to ride with Aragorn to the Paths of the Dead because she had enough of her time of staying home and playing nurse, so your interpretation is correct. However she also felt Aragorn doesn't want her to come with because she's a woman and through their conversation I had the distinct feeling she's very frustrated from this fact and felt this is one of the reason she was kept out the battlefield and part of her eagerness to battle is to prove that despite her gender she's could prove a good soldier as any Rohanian.
I’m tired of “female” tasks and attributes being seen as the lesser option. Power isn’t just slicing up bad guys. In letting women be slicey and appreciating that we shouldn’t deprecate more traditionally femine roles. Tolkien wasn’t afraid of writing warrior women, after all he wrote Haleth. He wrote the end of Eowyn’s story to show that her glorifying war was wrong, not her fighting in it.
Tolkien still believed in gender roles despite it. He even said when writing LOTR it didnt make much sense for women to play much if a role in a story about war
Well said. Yes; "Power is not just slicing up bad guys." Faramir himself mentioned that when the Gondorians were "high men", they had enormous prowess in war, yet valued the accomplishments of peace higher. But in his time, a warrior had become the most highly esteemed. He considered that that made Gondorians "middle men", no longer the "high men". Tolkien, as Crimson Thumos points out, does not think women have a large role in a story about war. Nevertheless, I do appreciate that the greatest feat of arms in the Lord of the Rings was achieved not by a mighty-thewed man of Gondor or Rohan but by a steely-slim little blond and her tiny Hobbit sidekick. I must agree, Ms. cat nerd, that it is wrong to view female tasks and attributes as of lesser importance. That makes us a race of "middle men", not "high men", so to speak. Dame Clara Barton was helping in a Civil War surgery tent when bullets began whistling through it. The surgeons and their helpers threw themselves to the ground. Tiny Clara Barton remained on her feet, working on a wounded soldier. A bullet went through her sleeve. There's battle courage for you. Later she founded the American Red Cross--an accomplishment that raises her up to the level of our best generals, as far as I'm concerned. I am a man and generally not ashamed of it, but when the men of our society fail to honor "female tasks and attributes" on a par with mail ones, I disagree, and though I did not do it, I still find it shameful.
Of all the characters, I relate to her the most: young, have to be responsible, feeling of being caged, wanting to have glory in a society that praises warriors, doctors, and scientists over bookish girls wanting to write. And forced to take a roll of care (I had to get a job as a Assistant Living kitchen aid; cleaning, serving…) What renowned is there for me in the things I do? I couldn’t make it as a doctor, scientist, police, or soldier. I don’t know if I’ll make it as a writer, or even make it back as a librarian. I wish I could have met Tolkien.
@ek5371 Slow going, school, work, and life keeps me busy. But this is the last year of college, so it'll free me up 'a little' to focus on writing soon. Also, I still have that job, but I'm a little more at peace with it; it's built up my character and body. And a family reunion in Upper Michigan has feed my sense of adventure and want to walk in cool places. But, I'm getting closer to wanting to move away, try my luck else ware.
I honestly took me years to understand Eowyn’s character. Like many I came to Lord of the Rings as a young teenager, and as a tomboy ready to beat any of the boys in feats of physical prowess to show I was more than ‘just a girl’, I fell in love with Eowyn right away. For my teenage years I was bitterly disappointed that her story ended with her getting married rather than continuing as a Rider. These days as someone in her thirties with a family and more life experience, Tolkien dose need a certain amount of maturity to throughly understand, I think my problem (What I call the Eowyn Problem when the debate of warrior woman/strong female character comes up) is that I was far more taken and obsessed with the image of the warrior maiden rather than the reasons the character Eowyn wanted to win glory in battle in the first place: it was born mostly of her depression, despair and desperation. So rather like Eowyn’s love for Aragorn, I loved the idea of what being the shieldmaiden was rather than who the character is, and on some self reflection, also what I saw of myself in her and what I wanted, what I needed and (most pointedly) what I thought I ought to want.
Glorfindel had already fought and defeated (but of course not killed) the Witch-King at the Battle of Fornost and said after the battle, "Do not pursue him! He will not return to this land. Far off yet is his doom, and not by the hand of man will he fall."
Eowyn: Chaotic Good Cleric-Warrior. The problem with Eowyn isnt her, its that Tolkien really doesnt have enough women in the story- the less of a type of character you have, the more that character has on their shoulders. Its like when you have a handful of PoC in a book predominantly white- alot is going to fall on their shoulders and someone is going to be dissappointed. With Eowyn, she is shown as an equal to the men as she can battle as they do- we see most characters either travelling, doing diplomacy, or battling- we know she should learn or already know diplomacy as she is a highborn lady, and she can obviously travel like the others since that basic human ability- to sge sge is on tge same level as the others of her land she is shown to also be able to do war. Now the issue comes with how many people aee these as single all-encompassing traits. Most of these characters arent Warlords- they're people in positions of power who can and will physically battle to acheive the protection of their people and allies. In fact most of LoTR is not humans warring with eachother, its humans figying against the destructive war being thrust upon them. When u look at it like this you have to strip war/defence abilities from a character to see who they are. And here most people forget that the characters are more than battle pawns. Faramir is the easiest for people to see truly. He actively does more than seek glory in battle abd people can easily pick up that, in peace, this man actually has something to do. Then you have people Aragorn. Hes predominantly seen as a fighter and then as a King. But asude from the battles we have a man deeply in love who will probably start a family and who will genuinely try and rule his kingdom as fairly as he can- and if he didn't have a crown, he would probably be a very helpful member if society, off the top of my head things like an Embassador or a leader/trainer of Guards could fit him easily. He's more than a sword and a crown. This is clear, just like with Faramir. Then you have Eowyn. Tge main takeaway people get from her is that shes a frustrated warrior cooped up and restrained by either her class (doubtful for a highborn to be sent out to get glory unless specifically planned) and/or her gender (we do not see many human women warriors). Now when you remove war from the occassion...what are you left with? If she has been defined primarily as a warrior, then when you remove war...you end up with nothing. But- as you have pointed out- she is a healer. One of her skills is this. But many people skip over this so it just feels like shes been stuck in a pidgeonhole. Which is niy wjat is happening, as she choses yo be with Faramir- who is overwhelmingly the man capable to understand and respect her. She doesnt loose autonomy by not doing war- she gains the freedom to do as she wants. She became a hero, a legend even- and all heros deserve to go home and do their passion. Eowyn is one of the most interesting characters in the series and her entire story resolves around her taking action in whatever capacity she sees fit and doing it. I frankly doubt that anyone will deny her arms if war comes calling again. Tl;dr Eowyns great, but she got alot on her shoulders and an unfair expectation from the audience.
Tolkien responded to that in an interview, so let me steelman his argument. I'm paraphrasing the response to not have more females by saying: such is the way of history. As a connoisseur of history, I can say there were female leaders in history. E.g. Queen Mother of Kalmar Union, Queen of Norway in the late 13th century, queen regent sybille of Jerusalem, and so forth. They only come up in politics due to being quite charismatic and remarkable individuals. In the historical sense that Tolkien echoed, you could argue that he succeeded.
I wouldn't call it suicidal or even a lack of hope. It's the depths of despair which I think is a very important theme to Tolkien. The character who best displays this in the legendarium is Fingolfin, my favorite character. But I don't think Tolkien had a positive outlook on Fingolfin's decision to face Morgoth. Giving in to despair seems anathema to Tolkien
"People who haven't completely lost their minds in the presence of the Nazgul." Taken literally there's also the Gaffer ("he spoke funny"). Then Farmer Maggot (feels a shiver down his back).Then Nob before the hobbits arrive (OK his hair stands on end, but there were two of them). Then Barliman, same time, tells them to get lost. Nob again the night of the attack, gives a shout and they make off. EDIT: Only the last one is an attack. But it is one, Merry is affected much worse. Oh I get it. The Nazgul-antidote is ... being working class!
if you think of it, Eowyn did the biggest most heroic and baddass thing anyone did or accomplished in LOTR! the only character that went face to face with someone as evil, scary and baddass as Witchking, and killed him and his monster :)
Well it’s an open question whether Gandalf would have accomplished the same thing had their face-off not been interrupted, but yeah not too many characters can boast such an achievement.
@@TolkienLorePodcast agree, in the book, Galdaf didn't got the chance to do something, in the movie, he lost! anyway i think of it, she silently achieved the biggest thing among all of them :D and she was no elf or wizard or certain blood, just a human. maybe its one of those Tolkein's winks to the readers.
@@ii-desu9125 - As part of Gandalf's resurrection, Eru Ilúvatar gave him powers almost as great as Sauron's, so being defeated by the Witch-King is another thing Peter Jackson got wrong.
@@ii-desu9125 its more likely she is symbolic of the Virgin Mary defeating Satan. Tolkien recontextualized pagan myths into a Catholic meaning to suit his zealous Catholic faith. Which he himself said was fundamentally present in Lord of the Rings
I’m not sure if anybody else said this but another character who stands up to the Witch King and really more than one Nazgul is Glorfindel both in the wars with Angmar and when he straight up bullies a couple of them off the bridge before the Bruinen. I know he’s an Elf with enhanced abilities after coming back from the dead but you make ruined Gandalf and so Glorfindel should be mentioned too. :)
Eowyn is such a wonderfully subtle, underrated character. Imagine the frustration of being a tomboy in a highly martial society with traditional gender roles.
Love your work. Keep it up! I know this video is almost five years old and you've probably refined your speaking skills, but you use the word basically a dozen times between 1:04 and 5:32. I know you're quickly summarizing from memory in order to get us up to speed, but the repetition is distracting. Once you've given us the lowdown, you never use any other words in a redundant manner because you're into the meat of your talk and vocalizing your own thoughts. I know looking into the camera is much better than reading from a script for four and half minutes. I mean this as a critique, not criticism. This was the first of your character studies that I've seen and I'm eager to view more. As to critics who claim Eowyn is relegated to service as a wife, I say Faramir is relegated to being a husband. Though not a royal, Faramir was from the most noble family (except for Aragorn) of men. He and Eowyn both took a step away from familial responsibilities to build their own family... and to take up the stewardship of Ithilien. Ithilien was the most ravaged and damaged land in M-e, aside from Mordor itself. Great care and attention was needed to restore Ithilien. Tolkien goes out of his way to show the great responsibility and honor reserved for those who heal. Gandalf heals spirits. Galadriel heals hearts. Sam heals the Shire. Aragorn and Elrond heal physical wounds. And when neither Bilbo, Frodo, nor Sam are able to find complete healing in M-e because of the Ring, the went West to find it. Neither Eowyn nor Faramir took a step back, they stepped up to the highest of callings. If anyone thinks that Eowyn was not honored for her deeds upon the Pelennor, I say she may be the most recognized hero in M-e. The people of Minas Tirith viewed The Battle of the Pelennor Fields.... yes, Gandalf rallied the troops and made to oppose the Witch-king, yes, Imrahil led the cavalry, yes, Theoden and Eomer led the Ride of the Rohirrim, yes, Aragorn saved the Belfalas/Lebennin/Dor-en-ernil and summoned the dead and lifted the siege, and yes, some Halflings did something to help as well, but Eowyn slew the Witch-king in front of their own eyes. The Lord of the Nazgul had been Gondor's bane for over 900 years. He was the champion of Sauron and the symbol of Gondor's demise... and Eowyn killed him at his moment of triumph. I cannot believe the people of the time did not openly acknowledge her as a living legend. I'd not be surprised to learn that she developed a cult following in Rohan... something like Dernhelm's Eored. Thanks again. I'll watch more soon.
One point that I forgot above... Merry had come close to the Riders before... in Bree (where he fainted) and on Weathertop. This experience might have helped him to focus... albeit the W-k paid him no heed. Merry keenly felt his duty to Theoden and his affection for the old king and for Eowyn encouraged his actions, not unlike Eowyn's love for Theoden spurred hers.
Tolkien was still a very traditionally and religiously minded man who believed in gender roles. People shouldn't project modern feminist views onto Tolkien
@@crimsonthumos3905 you are doing just the same...feminism does not exclude tradtional gender roles. This is what you people do not get. Obviously, you also never read Tolkien at all. Or you would know he did not hate women, like men do today.
I really want to know how tall Eowyn when scaled to other characters. She's never given an estimate in feet, but surely there's at least something we can draw from how she towers over the likes of Merry?
@@TolkienLorePodcast She is indeed described as tall, and Eomer is said to be of the same height as Aragorn (6.6ft). However, Tolkien seems more interested in map plotting at times than giving a whole lot of info in terms of character's height. Just curious to see how she'd best compare to others, as it seems the only way to get an estimate is to scour for information in the books and scale as to where she is on others.
How do we know how tall Aragorn is exactly? I don’t remember that. But yeah Eowyn is probably remarkably tall as a woman since she successfully disguised herself as a Rider who are tall in general. I’d guess near 6 feet based on the meager evidence we have.
@@TolkienLorePodcast Tolkien wrote some time after the books were published that he was that tall. I can't quite remember where, but he confirmed that as his canon height.
I don't think it was the goal of Tolkien to make some "girl power" stuff. Characters don't have to be archetypes or flag-bearer for any cause. Eowyn doesn't have to be a feminist effigy and there's nothing to justify.
Exactly, people who think Eowyn was supposed to be a feminist figure knows nothing of Tolkien's personal views or motivations. To understand it, ome musy knkw Tolkien was an extremely zealous Catholic who wantes to recontextualize pagan myth into a Catholic meaning Eowyn serves two roles. The first being almost a Biblical Marian figure, defeating Satan The second beingbthat e represents the old pagan desire for honour by glorious death on the battlefield. But depsite winning a great victory, she is denied this death and only finds her purpose in her love for Faramir. Who she becomes a traditional wife for
@@crimsonthumos3905 I don't know where you pull all that crap from (even if I have my idea...), never heard Tolkien explaining any of that or read anything so stupid in any of his books. Not being feminist doesn't mean being a the opposite. We don't have to choose between plague and cholera.
@@IronFreee if you think Tolkien was pro-feminist then you clearly know nothing of his personal religious views which applies to gender. He even wrote letters of his traditional views of marriage abd the differences between men and women. Furthermore, Tolkien literally explained in many letters and interviews that LOTR is a Catholic work. Even secular fans of his work acknowledge this religious aspect. If you don't know that it means you either haven't read as much s you seem to think you have or you're really trying to cope with a work you love not being compatible with your own political sentiments
@@crimsonthumos3905 Not being pro-feminist doesn't make you a bigot. There's a very vast area between those two. As for what authors say or do: Celine wrote anti-Jews pamphlets, Yukio Mishima made an ultra nationalist military coup. None of that is in their books. A lot of people express more conservative view when they grow old, often in reaction to society changes. The only thing that matters is what is in the book, and LOTR is not anti-feminist or bigot.
@@crimsonthumos3905 As for LOTR being Catholic, I think you are joking... Tolkien was probably comparing the Bible and the Silmarilion. Both are creation stories, but that's where the similarities stop. And there's not even mentions of gods in the LOTR. Whatever Tolkien said about it, I have a strong Catholic education and it's certainly not a piece of Catholic literature :D
Eowyn actually expressively stated that she want to ride with Aragorn to the Paths of the Dead because she had enough of her time of staying home and playing nurse, so your interpretation is correct.
However she also felt Aragorn doesn't want her to come with because she's a woman and through their conversation I had the distinct feeling she's very frustrated from this fact and felt this is one of the reason she was kept out the battlefield and part of her eagerness to battle is to prove that despite her gender she's could prove a good soldier as any Rohanian.
I’m tired of “female” tasks and attributes being seen as the lesser option. Power isn’t just slicing up bad guys. In letting women be slicey and appreciating that we shouldn’t deprecate more traditionally femine roles. Tolkien wasn’t afraid of writing warrior women, after all he wrote Haleth. He wrote the end of Eowyn’s story to show that her glorifying war was wrong, not her fighting in it.
Looooove your perspective!
Tolkien still believed in gender roles despite it. He even said when writing LOTR it didnt make much sense for women to play much if a role in a story about war
Well said. Yes; "Power is not just slicing up bad guys." Faramir himself mentioned that when the Gondorians were "high men", they had enormous prowess in war, yet valued the accomplishments of peace higher. But in his time, a warrior had become the most highly esteemed. He considered that that made Gondorians "middle men", no longer the "high men". Tolkien, as Crimson Thumos points out, does not think women have a large role in a story about war. Nevertheless, I do appreciate that the greatest feat of arms in the Lord of the Rings was achieved not by a mighty-thewed man of Gondor or Rohan but by a steely-slim little blond and her tiny Hobbit sidekick. I must agree, Ms. cat nerd, that it is wrong to view female tasks and attributes as of lesser importance. That makes us a race of "middle men", not "high men", so to speak. Dame Clara Barton was helping in a Civil War surgery tent when bullets began whistling through it. The surgeons and their helpers threw themselves to the ground. Tiny Clara Barton remained on her feet, working on a wounded soldier. A bullet went through her sleeve. There's battle courage for you. Later she founded the American Red Cross--an accomplishment that raises her up to the level of our best generals, as far as I'm concerned. I am a man and generally not ashamed of it, but when the men of our society fail to honor "female tasks and attributes" on a par with mail ones, I disagree, and though I did not do it, I still find it shameful.
@@crimsonthumos3905 Do not let the modern fanfiction writers hear you :P
Big fan of Eowyn. Good video thanks
Of all the characters, I relate to her the most: young, have to be responsible, feeling of being caged, wanting to have glory in a society that praises warriors, doctors, and scientists over bookish girls wanting to write. And forced to take a roll of care (I had to get a job as a Assistant Living kitchen aid; cleaning, serving…) What renowned is there for me in the things I do? I couldn’t make it as a doctor, scientist, police, or soldier. I don’t know if I’ll make it as a writer, or even make it back as a librarian. I wish I could have met Tolkien.
@ek5371 Slow going, school, work, and life keeps me busy. But this is the last year of college, so it'll free me up 'a little' to focus on writing soon. Also, I still have that job, but I'm a little more at peace with it; it's built up my character and body. And a family reunion in Upper Michigan has feed my sense of adventure and want to walk in cool places. But, I'm getting closer to wanting to move away, try my luck else ware.
Very good, always enjoy the videos! Cheers
I honestly took me years to understand Eowyn’s character. Like many I came to Lord of the Rings as a young teenager, and as a tomboy ready to beat any of the boys in feats of physical prowess to show I was more than ‘just a girl’, I fell in love with Eowyn right away. For my teenage years I was bitterly disappointed that her story ended with her getting married rather than continuing as a Rider. These days as someone in her thirties with a family and more life experience, Tolkien dose need a certain amount of maturity to throughly understand, I think my problem (What I call the Eowyn Problem when the debate of warrior woman/strong female character comes up) is that I was far more taken and obsessed with the image of the warrior maiden rather than the reasons the character Eowyn wanted to win glory in battle in the first place: it was born mostly of her depression, despair and desperation. So rather like Eowyn’s love for Aragorn, I loved the idea of what being the shieldmaiden was rather than who the character is, and on some self reflection, also what I saw of myself in her and what I wanted, what I needed and (most pointedly) what I thought I ought to want.
Great video mate,
Your missing a character that can face the nazgul
"Glorfindel" at the ford when he charged them to force them into the wave.
Glorfindel had already fought and defeated (but of course not killed) the Witch-King at the Battle of Fornost and said after the battle, "Do not pursue him! He will not return to this land. Far off yet is his doom, and not by the hand of man will he fall."
There's also Gaffer Gamgee and Farmer Maggot, though they didn't know who they were talking to.
Eowyn: Chaotic Good Cleric-Warrior.
The problem with Eowyn isnt her, its that Tolkien really doesnt have enough women in the story- the less of a type of character you have, the more that character has on their shoulders. Its like when you have a handful of PoC in a book predominantly white- alot is going to fall on their shoulders and someone is going to be dissappointed.
With Eowyn, she is shown as an equal to the men as she can battle as they do- we see most characters either travelling, doing diplomacy, or battling- we know she should learn or already know diplomacy as she is a highborn lady, and she can obviously travel like the others since that basic human ability- to sge sge is on tge same level as the others of her land she is shown to also be able to do war.
Now the issue comes with how many people aee these as single all-encompassing traits. Most of these characters arent Warlords- they're people in positions of power who can and will physically battle to acheive the protection of their people and allies. In fact most of LoTR is not humans warring with eachother, its humans figying against the destructive war being thrust upon them.
When u look at it like this you have to strip war/defence abilities from a character to see who they are. And here most people forget that the characters are more than battle pawns.
Faramir is the easiest for people to see truly. He actively does more than seek glory in battle abd people can easily pick up that, in peace, this man actually has something to do.
Then you have people Aragorn. Hes predominantly seen as a fighter and then as a King. But asude from the battles we have a man deeply in love who will probably start a family and who will genuinely try and rule his kingdom as fairly as he can- and if he didn't have a crown, he would probably be a very helpful member if society, off the top of my head things like an Embassador or a leader/trainer of Guards could fit him easily. He's more than a sword and a crown. This is clear, just like with Faramir.
Then you have Eowyn. Tge main takeaway people get from her is that shes a frustrated warrior cooped up and restrained by either her class (doubtful for a highborn to be sent out to get glory unless specifically planned) and/or her gender (we do not see many human women warriors).
Now when you remove war from the occassion...what are you left with? If she has been defined primarily as a warrior, then when you remove war...you end up with nothing.
But- as you have pointed out- she is a healer. One of her skills is this. But many people skip over this so it just feels like shes been stuck in a pidgeonhole. Which is niy wjat is happening, as she choses yo be with Faramir- who is overwhelmingly the man capable to understand and respect her. She doesnt loose autonomy by not doing war- she gains the freedom to do as she wants. She became a hero, a legend even- and all heros deserve to go home and do their passion.
Eowyn is one of the most interesting characters in the series and her entire story resolves around her taking action in whatever capacity she sees fit and doing it. I frankly doubt that anyone will deny her arms if war comes calling again.
Tl;dr Eowyns great, but she got alot on her shoulders and an unfair expectation from the audience.
Chaotic good cleric warrior is such an awesome way to sum her up! 😂
Tolkien responded to that in an interview, so let me steelman his argument. I'm paraphrasing the response to not have more females by saying: such is the way of history.
As a connoisseur of history, I can say there were female leaders in history. E.g. Queen Mother of Kalmar Union, Queen of Norway in the late 13th century, queen regent sybille of Jerusalem, and so forth. They only come up in politics due to being quite charismatic and remarkable individuals.
In the historical sense that Tolkien echoed, you could argue that he succeeded.
I wouldn't call it suicidal or even a lack of hope. It's the depths of despair which I think is a very important theme to Tolkien. The character who best displays this in the legendarium is Fingolfin, my favorite character. But I don't think Tolkien had a positive outlook on Fingolfin's decision to face Morgoth. Giving in to despair seems anathema to Tolkien
"People who haven't completely lost their minds in the presence of the Nazgul." Taken literally there's also the Gaffer ("he spoke funny"). Then Farmer Maggot (feels a shiver down his back).Then Nob before the hobbits arrive (OK his hair stands on end, but there were two of them). Then Barliman, same time, tells them to get lost. Nob again the night of the attack, gives a shout and they make off. EDIT: Only the last one is an attack. But it is one, Merry is affected much worse. Oh I get it. The Nazgul-antidote is ... being working class!
if you think of it, Eowyn did the biggest most heroic and baddass thing anyone did or accomplished in LOTR! the only character that went face to face with someone as evil, scary and baddass as Witchking, and killed him and his monster :)
Well it’s an open question whether Gandalf would have accomplished the same thing had their face-off not been interrupted, but yeah not too many characters can boast such an achievement.
@@TolkienLorePodcast agree, in the book, Galdaf didn't got the chance to do something, in the movie, he lost! anyway i think of it, she silently achieved the biggest thing among all of them :D and she was no elf or wizard or certain blood, just a human. maybe its one of those Tolkein's winks to the readers.
@@ii-desu9125 - As part of Gandalf's resurrection, Eru Ilúvatar gave him powers almost as great as Sauron's, so being defeated by the Witch-King is another thing Peter Jackson got wrong.
@@ii-desu9125 its more likely she is symbolic of the Virgin Mary defeating Satan. Tolkien recontextualized pagan myths into a Catholic meaning to suit his zealous Catholic faith. Which he himself said was fundamentally present in Lord of the Rings
I’m not sure if anybody else said this but another character who stands up to the Witch King and really more than one Nazgul is Glorfindel both in the wars with Angmar and when he straight up bullies a couple of them off the bridge before the Bruinen. I know he’s an Elf with enhanced abilities after coming back from the dead but you make ruined Gandalf and so Glorfindel should be mentioned too. :)
Can you do something on the Hobbit and Lotr cartoons? Thanks.
Planning to eventually, but I need to acquire new copies of them to refresh my memory lol.
Eowyn is such a wonderfully subtle, underrated character. Imagine the frustration of being a tomboy in a highly martial society with traditional gender roles.
Love your work. Keep it up!
I know this video is almost five years old and you've probably refined your speaking skills, but you use the word basically a dozen times between 1:04 and 5:32. I know you're quickly summarizing from memory in order to get us up to speed, but the repetition is distracting. Once you've given us the lowdown, you never use any other words in a redundant manner because you're into the meat of your talk and vocalizing your own thoughts. I know looking into the camera is much better than reading from a script for four and half minutes. I mean this as a critique, not criticism.
This was the first of your character studies that I've seen and I'm eager to view more. As to critics who claim Eowyn is relegated to service as a wife, I say Faramir is relegated to being a husband. Though not a royal, Faramir was from the most noble family (except for Aragorn) of men. He and Eowyn both took a step away from familial responsibilities to build their own family... and to take up the stewardship of Ithilien. Ithilien was the most ravaged and damaged land in M-e, aside from Mordor itself. Great care and attention was needed to restore Ithilien. Tolkien goes out of his way to show the great responsibility and honor reserved for those who heal. Gandalf heals spirits. Galadriel heals hearts. Sam heals the Shire. Aragorn and Elrond heal physical wounds. And when neither Bilbo, Frodo, nor Sam are able to find complete healing in M-e because of the Ring, the went West to find it. Neither Eowyn nor Faramir took a step back, they stepped up to the highest of callings.
If anyone thinks that Eowyn was not honored for her deeds upon the Pelennor, I say she may be the most recognized hero in M-e. The people of Minas Tirith viewed The Battle of the Pelennor Fields.... yes, Gandalf rallied the troops and made to oppose the Witch-king, yes, Imrahil led the cavalry, yes, Theoden and Eomer led the Ride of the Rohirrim, yes, Aragorn saved the Belfalas/Lebennin/Dor-en-ernil and summoned the dead and lifted the siege, and yes, some Halflings did something to help as well, but Eowyn slew the Witch-king in front of their own eyes. The Lord of the Nazgul had been Gondor's bane for over 900 years. He was the champion of Sauron and the symbol of Gondor's demise... and Eowyn killed him at his moment of triumph. I cannot believe the people of the time did not openly acknowledge her as a living legend. I'd not be surprised to learn that she developed a cult following in Rohan... something like Dernhelm's Eored.
Thanks again. I'll watch more soon.
One point that I forgot above... Merry had come close to the Riders before... in Bree (where he fainted) and on Weathertop. This experience might have helped him to focus... albeit the W-k paid him no heed. Merry keenly felt his duty to Theoden and his affection for the old king and for Eowyn encouraged his actions, not unlike Eowyn's love for Theoden spurred hers.
In my mind, her frame of mind is similar to Fingolfin’s when he rides off alone to confront Morgoth
Thesis: Tolkien respected women, he wrote a man's world, but he respected women
Tolkien was still a very traditionally and religiously minded man who believed in gender roles. People shouldn't project modern feminist views onto Tolkien
@@crimsonthumos3905 you are doing just the same...feminism does not exclude tradtional gender roles. This is what you people do not get.
Obviously, you also never read Tolkien at all. Or you would know he did not hate women, like men do today.
I really want to know how tall Eowyn when scaled to other characters. She's never given an estimate in feet, but surely there's at least something we can draw from how she towers over the likes of Merry?
Well all humans tower over Hobbits lol. I’m trying to remember if she’s described as tall or not but I’m not sure...
@@TolkienLorePodcast She is indeed described as tall, and Eomer is said to be of the same height as Aragorn (6.6ft). However, Tolkien seems more interested in map plotting at times than giving a whole lot of info in terms of character's height.
Just curious to see how she'd best compare to others, as it seems the only way to get an estimate is to scour for information in the books and scale as to where she is on others.
How do we know how tall Aragorn is exactly? I don’t remember that. But yeah Eowyn is probably remarkably tall as a woman since she successfully disguised herself as a Rider who are tall in general. I’d guess near 6 feet based on the meager evidence we have.
@@TolkienLorePodcast Tolkien wrote some time after the books were published that he was that tall. I can't quite remember where, but he confirmed that as his canon height.
I’ll have to try to run that down.
He's really cute.
I don't think it was the goal of Tolkien to make some "girl power" stuff. Characters don't have to be archetypes or flag-bearer for any cause.
Eowyn doesn't have to be a feminist effigy and there's nothing to justify.
Exactly, people who think Eowyn was supposed to be a feminist figure knows nothing of Tolkien's personal views or motivations. To understand it, ome musy knkw Tolkien was an extremely zealous Catholic who wantes to recontextualize pagan myth into a Catholic meaning
Eowyn serves two roles. The first being almost a Biblical Marian figure, defeating Satan
The second beingbthat e represents the old pagan desire for honour by glorious death on the battlefield. But depsite winning a great victory, she is denied this death and only finds her purpose in her love for Faramir. Who she becomes a traditional wife for
@@crimsonthumos3905 I don't know where you pull all that crap from (even if I have my idea...), never heard Tolkien explaining any of that or read anything so stupid in any of his books.
Not being feminist doesn't mean being a the opposite. We don't have to choose between plague and cholera.
@@IronFreee if you think Tolkien was pro-feminist then you clearly know nothing of his personal religious views which applies to gender. He even wrote letters of his traditional views of marriage abd the differences between men and women.
Furthermore, Tolkien literally explained in many letters and interviews that LOTR is a Catholic work. Even secular fans of his work acknowledge this religious aspect. If you don't know that it means you either haven't read as much s you seem to think you have or you're really trying to cope with a work you love not being compatible with your own political sentiments
@@crimsonthumos3905 Not being pro-feminist doesn't make you a bigot. There's a very vast area between those two.
As for what authors say or do: Celine wrote anti-Jews pamphlets, Yukio Mishima made an ultra nationalist military coup. None of that is in their books.
A lot of people express more conservative view when they grow old, often in reaction to society changes.
The only thing that matters is what is in the book, and LOTR is not anti-feminist or bigot.
@@crimsonthumos3905 As for LOTR being Catholic, I think you are joking... Tolkien was probably comparing the Bible and the Silmarilion. Both are creation stories, but that's where the similarities stop.
And there's not even mentions of gods in the LOTR.
Whatever Tolkien said about it, I have a strong Catholic education and it's certainly not a piece of Catholic literature :D
Sshdjcjdn yes my GIRL