Loved (or hated) Rings of Power and you're ready to dive deeper into Tolkien's world? I recommend starting with Tolkien's "The Silmarillion." But don't go it alone! Download my tips for reading this epic fantasy adventure at ringspodcast.com
I feel like the sentiment behind "if you don't like it, don't watch" is actually "stop talking about how you don't like it". Often accompanied by "its just entertainment, it doesn't matter" and "its fine if you just turn your brain off" and "you should be grateful there's a show at all".
Anyone who uses the "it's just a movie" line for any major theatrical release (and this show too) automatically loses the debate. I remind them that _it is a movie,_ something that costs hundreds of millions, was worked on by thousands of people, and shouldn't be dismissed like it's an elementary school play.
Well said. Not only is it a costly endeavor, but it is also a contribution to art and culture. Would we say that Greek tragedies or Shakespeare are "just plays" that don't have any bearing on modern society? Granted, not all dramatic art will be at that scale, but for something LoTR related, contributing to art is the bare minimum expectation.
I'm so glad you found it helpful! It's been on my mind for a while. Feel free to pass along a link to this video next time you have a conversation like that!
Godzilla Minus One had a budget of $15 million, managed to tell a touching story that honored the source material, won the Oscar for best visual effects, and well loved by fans. So, budget is not the issue, it’s the lack of creativity, the incompetent production, and the willful desecration of the beloved masterpiece that is the problem.
"If You Don’t Like It, Don’t Watch It" is like people trying to oust gatekeepers by doing their own gatekeeping against them. You don't beat an enemy or prove your point, by becoming him
I can't stress enough how excited I was when this show was first announced, not only for myself, but because I would have the chance to show an unexplored side of The Lord of The Rings universe to people that have never read the books. I, somehow, watched the 1st season and it was an absolute disgrace in every sense of the word. For some morbid reason I tried to give it another chance and watched the first 2 episodes of season 2 and tapped out. I just couldn't. I love the work of professor Tolkien way too much. Even if you remove all the elements from that universe and try to analyse the show purely from a generic fantasy show standpoint, it is still very mediocre, to say the least. I hope casual fans and people who never gave a chance to Tolkien's work don't feel disecouraged by this fanfic.
Same here. I was so looking forward to this show from season 1 until I saw two things: the teaser hype video that was supposed to be a conversation among "fans" who clearly had never read Tolkien; and then some over the top cheesy acting in one of the first trailers. Those were the first two cracks in my excitement. But as much as I tried, all that excitement is just gone now.
@@loreoftheringspodcast6538 They haven't. This reinforced me in this idea that true masterpiece is not for mass audience and buried all hope that LotR will ever be put on screen properly. In the films I didn't find anything I loved about the book. Trying to re-discover the Trilogy also doesn't work for me. Subtle matters aside, it fails to deliver elements of a decent horror film or a quality war film. When I watched RoP, I felt a great deal of relief and joy, since to me it made much more sense (despite the numerous drawbacks, which don't bother me, since I didn't expect much).
I discovered Tolkien with the 1973 Ballantine paperbacks when I was 12 years old. I still have them; I treasure them for the deep emotional impact they had on me. They helped me to transcend an unhappy childhood. They inspired the artists creating the music I listened to, like Led Zeppelin, for instance. When Robert Plant sang about Gollum in “Ramble On,” or Frodo in “The Battle of Evermore,” or Goldberry in “Stairway to Heaven,” it was like being “in” on a secret, like being one of the few who knew where the key was that let us into Tolkien’s marvelous world. And in many ways this saved my life. For many years I read the books, starting each September with Frodo’s journey, until responsibilities and the demands of life gobbled up my time. I have watched the Jackson trilogy, however, well over a hundred times now. And I have had the joy of sharing Tolkien with my sons, who are now grown with children of their own. I have had the joy of seeing Tolkien inspire them as well. May they continue to grow as strong men, like Aragorn, ready and willing to defend home and hearth, right and goodness, with no shame or need to tone down the strength in their hearts, not as modernity demands. That is why this abomination of a show, this Jeff Bezos-DEI circle jerk, this ruination of everything good and righteous and aspiring in the works, and especially this deliberate desecration and demeaning of the culture of the man and the civilization that created it is so infuriating to me. But thank God for the many detractors flooding the only social media capable of reaching so many; like yourself, I've listened to European Lore, Little Platoon, Disparu and Critical Drinker, and Gary at Nerdrotic, and Just Some Guy - young and FED-UP with this inverted reality, ready to defend and preserve the culture of Western civilization, making Tolkien the hill on which they are all prepared to die. My generation will die out, as naturally happens, and we won’t be here to remind people of what they stand to lose if they lose this one thing. Yes! This ONE beloved literary masterpiece, and your generation, could end up saving civilization!
I definitely agree with you. It's like a welcoming letter to the world of Tolkien for the new generation, but a very disappointing one. I firmly believe it's up to the older generation, that stick to the source material, to truly give them a proper welcome to this wonderful universe that we've come to know and love. Channels like yours will most certainly achieve that. With high demand for authenticity and faithfulness to source material, the task is now in our hands.
I love what you have said here (and thank you for the compliment). In some ways it feels daunting and intimating to have that task before us, but like Frodo, if we can save The Shire, so to speak, then at least we should try.
Rings of Power isn't an adaption, it's a big budget Fan-fic written for Tumblr. And it falls into so many of the pitfalls of bad fan- fiction written by amateur writers. Their statement about there being "no such thing as Canon in Tolkien" made this point crystal clear.
I know a lot of girls who write fan faction. Many of them very good at writing but who took up fanfaction inspired by a tv show, or movie because of their love for it and a desire to see it continue or write in the quiet unseen moments of a show. They did it for love of the material. Amazon isn't doing this for love. No. This is hate-fiction. They despise everything JRRT stood for, he and Christopher both. Simon Tolkien, Christopher's son, was at odds constantly with his father about selling the rights. Simon hated the LotR movies BECAUSE they were too faithful to the source material. The man is a cretin and working with the showrunners at Amazon as part of the creative process. A failed writer in his own right, he has no lover for his grandfather's work. Ugh. I shiver with anger every time I think of that man. I have friends in England, and he's not well liked even amongst them, and they knew something like this would happen some day and it wouldn't be good.
The Silmarillion is (in parts) a fan fic. It wasn't written by Tolkien, but by Christopher Tolkien and a collaborator. It was based on Tolkien's writings and notes, but it still involved both editing and actual re-writing. That's what fan-fiction writers do. Even more so, Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings was a fan fic. There were parts of it that were pure invention. Significant characters like Faramir and Denethor, even Frodo, were altered. Parts of the plot were altered and invented. I could go on and on. That's another thing fan fiction writers do. But do you know what the above two works had in common? They were mostly very good. So whether they were adaptions or fan fiction, canon, non-canon, or whatever other labels you want to stick on them, didn't matter to most Tolkien fans. I happen to think the Rings of Power is mostly good, so far. It isn't perfect (like the above two works). And if I ever start thinking its no longer very good, yes I will probably stop watching it. But I will not bother to constantly remind other people how it isnt very good, especially since that's their opinion, which they are entitled to. There are quite a lot of sub-par works based on Tolkien. Does this keep me awake at nights? No. Do I still care about Tolkien? Yes. I've no idea what kind of twisted argument the video is trying to make.
You bring up good points here. Notice that in my video or comments I have not labeled Rings of Power or even Peter Jackson's movies as fan fiction. I don't know if that's helpful. The point of this video was to put to words some thoughts that had been simmering in my mind about how dismissive the show runners and the show's ardent defenders have been to those of us who have loved Tolkien's works for many, many years. To express my dissatisfaction with their dismissive attitude towards us. And to add why we care so much about Tolkien, and why we care about what Rings of Power has done. Anyone has the choice to not watch the show if they don't like it-that's obvious and not the point. The point is that those who profess to make art for a decades-long fandom ought to be more careful about how they treat the material and its fans.
Creatives are always doing new versions of older pieces of art. The problem is whether it's done well, or whether you have the balls to admit you're doing something new. They do neither. They are doing it bad and they are trying to make it their own while at the same time they are constantly, cheaply copying Jackson's films and crying about how it's all about Tolkien and going back to the books, so that they can capitalize on the fandom for viewership. Plus , as it is mentioned in the video, we haven't even gotten an original depiction of 2nd Age on screen, they have already jumped steps ahead into creative transformation and fallen flat on their face
There is this idea, which was expressed on this video as well, and which I completely disagree with: the idea that Rings of Power somehow "tarnishes" or "ruins" Tolkien's works. Many people have expressed this idea and cite it as the reason why they hate RoP so much, but it's absolutely not true An adaptation, no matter how bad it is (and Rings of Power is bad, let's get that straight), will never ruin the original. The sins of the adaptation are its own, not of the original. If you go and open the Lord of the Rings novel, is it now suddenly bad? Did the characters become nonsensically written, did the story become unbelievable, did the themes lose their meaning? No! The original is as good as it ever was. If a bad adaptation tarnished and ruined the original, then works like Dracula, the Sherlock Holmes novels and everything by Shakespeare would have become unreadable long before any of us were even born, so many terrible versions have been made over the years and centuries. Yet that isn't the case, the originals stay as good as they always were and the bad adaptions will be forgotten. That is what will happen with the Lord of the Rings and Rings of Power
I agree; and if the idea of a bad adaptation tarnishing the original work was communicated in this video then that was a mistake. In fact, my last point was pretty much the opposite: if Rings of Power is someone's introduction to Tolkien's world, then that person has so much wonderful adventure and amazing tales to discover, none of which have been diminished by this current adaptation.
Didnt expect this. I thought you were fine with it with the way you talked about it in the podcast. Ive read the silmarillion and currently on unfinished tales, it's an arduous journey but its worth it and youve helped me along the way. In a self flagelating white guilt western society anything not of the the last few years is something to somehow need be corrected to placate the goal posts they keep shifting
Oh no! I didn't mean to provide any misleading expectations. Simply that my initial reactions of the show were mild, but when I sat down to review the episodes and thought about them just a little, I was filled more and more with anger. Layer on top of that the other Tolkien content creators who started to say: "just ignore it" and I wanted to push back on that idea. I was attempting to fairly critique without "being an orc" as I outlined in podcast episode #171.
The decision to not watch out of protest is legit and yours to make! I'm pushing back on those who can't take the criticism and are trying to push us out of the conversation.
I agree. But if somebody wants to sacrifice their sanity and watch it, to chronicle just how bad and subversive it is, and in how many ways it manages to disrespect the original work from Tolkien, then that's fine too. Personally, I never even started watching it. Since the first posters were revealed it was clear what the real purpose behind The Rings of Power was. No. Just no.
The desecration of such seminal work of literature must be called out. That is why we watch it, criticized, and (in my case) ridiculed it. It must be mocked and shamed so that they won't do it again. It is because the carelessness and subverting of Tolkien's work with such abandon that calls for such ridicule. All they care is girl-bosses, first black elf, first black dwarf princess, shipping Haladriel, and all of that nonsense instead of the love of the story. RoP joins the rank of failed tv show such as The Witcher, Shadow & Bone, and The Wheel of Time. On a side note, you have a face that cameras love. Great eyes. Would love to see more of that great mug. You've got a new subscriber.
Agree on the critique-I wish there was more care for the story. I've been reading some Tolkien Letters where he criticized drafts of a movie script; you could take his comments and say the exact same thing about RoP. And thank you!
Thank you! This sounds like the actual answer to the question in the title of the video. @loreoftheringspodcast6538 describes his disappointment and sadness for what RoP is and could have been instead, some of the shortcomings of the show, how he cares about Tolkien and his legendarium, but none of those are good reasons to continue watching a show that you don't like. This comment completes the video. Personally I stopped making a fuss if I think an adaptation is not up to the level of the original material. When I like an adaptation I will watch it and maybe rewatch it, and when I dislike it I will just leave it alone. If other people like it, I'm happy for them and I don't feel bad. Well, as long as people are aware that the adaption is not the same as the original and don't try to teach me what the original is like based on their understanding of the adaptation; fortunately those conversations can be easily turned around by pointing out that in the book X happened unlike Y that happened in the movie. Sometimes this even leads to interesting conversations. 🙂
Wonderful thoughts and thank you for the feedback! I very much agree with your thoughts on adaptations in general. I genuinely enjoy both the HP movies and books. I enjoy the LOTR books (obviously) and the PJ movies, but not the animated films. In regarding to interesting conversations, last year I explored The Hobbit chapter by chapter, with episodes alternating from analyzing the book chapter to how it was adapted in the PJ films. Big takeaway: the book is about a hobbit who had an adventure; the PJ films are about a dwarf who wanted revenge. Related stories, different emphasis. I'd be honored it you gave it a listen! ua-cam.com/play/PLFsxZrKhL9_T2kVsMrVS9YHDl4MJiTYkG.html
Hard disagree. You don't have to stop caring just because you don't want to watch TROP. It's more about how you could/should stop focusing energy on something that you actively dislike and focus instead on the stuff you *do* like. I watched Season 1 of TROP. Didn't enjoy it that much, didn't hate it either. Mostly forgotten about it. Didn't bother watching Season 2 because I'm just not invested in it. That hasn't affected my enjoyment or love of Tolkien's work or Jackson's LoTR movies in any way. Too many "fandoms" seem to end up in a toxic place where there's a hardcore who seem to obsessively hate the very thing they supposedly enjoy. It's quite sad, really.
You're certainly welcome to opinion. And I agree wholeheartedly about fandoms hating too much on the worlds they are supposed to love. That doesn't mean that fair criticism can't be levied when warranted. In my podcast episode #171 before Rings of Power season 2 started I laid out a few thoughts exactly along those lines after a friend of mine made a similar comment about the Star Wars fandom. I'd be honored if you gave it a listen: ringspodcast.com/171
"where there's a hardcore who seem to obsessively hate the very thing they supposedly enjoy." Which is clearly not the case here. Many people loathe and despise ROP, precisely because they do like Tolkien.
@@alexg3434some people hated PJs movies when they came out. I think they should just not watch the movies, and enjoy the books instead. Not make a channels dedicated to creating a toxic environment about how bad you think the show is.
@@Euthyphro One persons "toxic environment" is another man's "passion for the material" and "respect for the author". It is sad that too many people see it more from your side.
I speak up because I care deeply. I will not be silent simply because some people don't want to hear fair criticism. All are entitled to their opinion and their choice of viewing material. I for one, was ready to lift and support this show from its first announcements years and years ago; but now I simply cannot do so and keep my integrity.
A total of 5 seasons seems to be the grand plan. The fact that zero headlines are touting the viewing numbers suggests to be that the show is still a flop for ROI for the studio; yet that is just a tiny drop in the billion dollar bucket for Amazon. I do hope though that they continue to learn, and maybe, just maybe, season 3 will have a believable story.
@@loreoftheringspodcast6538 I don't hope for that. If they do that, then the already-lost defenders are going to stand up screaming what a great show it is, but extend that to ALL the seasons. Regardless of the previous failures of lore. Or consistency. Or smithing practices. Or biology. Or walking sixty miles. Regardless of how false the reasoning is, they'll say the whole show is fantastic and our society will die just that little bit more.
@loreoftheringsbroadcast6538 I very much doubt the next seasons will be any better, unless the entire team is changed. The team working on this show is a bunch of utter amateurs who have finished making the foundation - a story with no head or tail, no consistent world, no consistent characters; a foundation of sand - and now they have to build on it - a difficult task for the best writers given how little there is to build upon... except it's not the best writers working on it, it's the same amateurs as before! If there is a third season it will be a mighty mess
@@exantiuse497 Unfortunately a lot of the issues with it are now baked in and I don't think that the best writers in the world could fully right the ship. At best you could hope for a more internally consistent and coherent story going forward. But it is too late for honouring canon at least.
"u dont likeit u dont watchit" works fine with original stories. but amazon somehow (sarcasm) dint want to make an original story to push their agenda. they took a well known and well written work and just raped it. so no. we wont stop criticise them for that.
The thing is, even when applied to original works it can be disingenuous and double edged. Because "don't like it, don't watch it" and "it's not for you" quite quickly turns into "You didn't watch it so it's your fault it failed". I am pretty sure that what is actually meant is "watch it and if you don't have anything nice to say, say nothing" so that stuff we dislike can keep getting made for the minority who do like it, at the expense of our time and streaming service subscription fees.
@@Karras353 I like what you're saying here. Great art (like an adaptation of Lord of the Rings) must be able to have some fair criticism against it. I wish they had given greater care to the story.
Also, Matrix mouse. I think this only works if you're not paying attention. People are watching their phones then looking up and seeing a Numenor flyby and going oh cool!
Yeah, true point. If you aren't really giving the show attention, it'll likely come across as cool. Perhaps that says more about distracted we are with our "goldfish" attention spans.
@@loreoftheringspodcast6538 That reminds me of how irritating the editing was. Scenes did not have a beginning, middle and an end. You would just get 3 minutes and then you're out. Surely these fans could not read something like Lord of the Rings much less the Similarian.
even at the height of my harry potter mania i would not have been offended by it being called basic because i was giving a side-eye to some of the writing decisions at 13 years old in 2001... and in the past 10 years JKR has demonstrated that any deep themes in her books were purely accidental lol
I'm glad you said that because many people LOVE that little wizard-and while I merely enjoy it as entertaining-I prefer the deep stuff of Middle-earth.
@@loreoftheringspodcast6538 for sure, i read the two towers after seeing the fellowship movie in theaters and it was like a steak compared to harry potter's $1 value menu burger. my lil mind was blown lol
I didn't know beforehand that it was such a trash show and had hope until the very end. I regret it and wish I had never seen the series. It ruins the beautiful Peter Jackson memories and head cinema while reading the books.
There is almost a principle on TV shows to get crappy writers and train writers to be crappy. Sometimes they hire sort of "fitting" writers, often for special episodes, but overall they take the cheesiest, most uncreative and inexperienced ones they can find. (And it's quite amazing how low standard and uncritical many writers are themselves. It suggests that like in many other things their career really depends mostly on attitude rather than talent and skill.) Though it's even worse how it is trendy, or at least was in this case, to get total nobodies, based on nepotism with JarJar Binks (aka Abrams), to be the showrunners.
They are right. We must stop watching it, all of us that not like it. And stop talking about it. There's no shame. This is not Tolkien. I' m curious what will happen.
I can't read the minds of people, but I would wager that the higher-ups at Amazon are happy as long as the show gets regognition - whether good or bad. If their billion-dollar flagship project, "the next Game of Thrones", got no attention whatsoever, THAT would be a disaster for them
I understand what you're saying, but after the parts I've seen of it that's not going to make me watch more. The books are great, I own everything he wrote that can be bought. I don't rewatch the movies, but enjoyed them when I watched the extended versions. The books on the other hand? I'm read them several times and was first exposed to the world of LOTR as a child. If ROP is really the best they can do I'm not going to watch anything else they create. I've been a *huge* fan of Frank Herbert's Dune saga since I read the first book, and was positively gutted when I learned he died and there wouldn't be any more novels after Chapterhouse because he'd died. Since then I've re-read the books there are over the years and enjoyed them. Yet I don't like the latest movies. I tried, yes the graphics are nice, but that wasn't what the story was about, far too much action, not enough politics, they fell flat for me.
Deciding not to watch is 100% your choice. No harm in that. Like you, I've read the books several times (I think my Silmarillion count is 6 or 7?); yet I do rewatch the PJ LoTR movies every year. Dune was great as a political intrigue story. Admittedly, the latest movies were my introduction to that world, and I thought the first two books were an adventure.
@@loreoftheringspodcast6538 The first two/three books had immense depth, but I've been reading them since my teenage years, so decades. You'll only have analysis videos to rely on, as will so many people new to both LOTR and the Dune Saga. I don't consider this to be a bad thing. Both Tolkien and Herbert had a lot of important things to say that people can learn from. No analysis video or movie can take the place of reading them yourself however. I Like David Lynches Dune Movie. Herbert was involved in it and had fun, but Lynch was excluded from the final cut, which ultimately wrecked the film. It's so obviously cut together badly. But neither Lynch (as far as anyone knows) or Villeneuve filmed the critical banquet scene, which makes no sense to me. It was the equivalent of cutting a major battle, say helm's deep from the Two Towers movie and expecting everything else to still make sense.
For consideration, I would like to add the works of Isaac Asimov's "Foundation" universe, to Tolkien and Herbert. And Star Trek, and Doctor Who, and TRON, and DC Comics and Marvel and... anyway. AppleTV's production of, how shall I put this, "some television trash claiming those names" doesn't just get Asimov or his Foundation universe wrong, it inverts every important meaning they ever had. Really; not just "mess with the lore RoP-horror-style", but make heroes more important than history, make magic psychic powers more important than study and planning work, bring casual brutality to the screen instead of Asimov's ideas. There's a lot of stuff in that show I could pick on, whether lore or common sense, but lemme keep it stark and simple: Imagine a room full of the galaxy's best scientists and engineers deciding on whether to archive the construction of the sundial or the waterclock. Ignore the fact that the answer ought to be "both". The decision these geniuses come to - and yes, not being American I checked that under U.S. Common Core standards the importance of water is taught in THIRD GRADE - the decision these geniuses come to is to document the function of the sundial. Why? Because "what happens if you try to settle a planet with no liquid water, how will your waterclock work? We choose the sundial". If you spot the three key words in that horrifying phrase, congratulations, you're not only at least as smart as a third grader, but you're smarter than the entire writing, editing, acting, production and executive staff at AppleTV. I came to Tolkien late; when I was a kid, I was reading Dune and Foundation. Seeing the same kind of obscene stupidity happening in RoP? Drove me to a non-Amazon shop to buy Tolkien's books and after The Hobbit and LOTR, I'm now on my way through The Silmarillion. Movie graphics? Action? Lack of politics? Wrong story? Let's try not understanding the physics of walking sixty miles, or getting stabbed in the mud and getting up to fight, or gut injury and riding SIX DAYS NON-STOP or SURVIVING A VOLCANO. How about just plain "thinking" or "grasp on reality". Let's try fearing for a society that thinks any of this is in any way acceptable. ... and that's why I believe these shows shouldn't be simply not-watched; but that these shows should be ENDED. With prejudice. And all prevented from ever rising again.
How can i confidently say that is a terrible show and adaptation of the source material if I don't watch the show first? BTW is a terrible show and adaptation of the source material.
I care about LOTR, and I very much enjoy not watching ROP. As for cheapening the legacy, all of the crap Christopher Tolkien has produced started that trend years ago.
I’m glad you care! I care as well. If you want to not watch RoP, that’s a totally fine choice. I’m just pushing back against those who say “don’t watch it” as if to dismiss those of us who care deeply and yet find flaws with RoP.
If not looking at it is fine for Tolkien's son then it should be fine advice. “They eviscerated the book by making it an action movie for young people aged 15 to 25, and it seems that The Hobbit will be the same kind of film.” “Tolkien has become a monster, devoured by his own popularity and absorbed into the absurdity of our time. The chasm between the beauty and seriousness of the work, and what it has become, has overwhelmed me. The commercialization has reduced the aesthetic and philosophical impact of the creation to nothing. There is only one solution for me: to turn my head away.” This was said about the film trilogy that has since been called the zenith and magnum opus of the high fantasy genre. Hard to say how the original three films could have been better. Some people will find the media enjoyable and others won't. The real difference is between those who won't like for the sake of making videos and those who simply have legitimate gripes. There are those who will enjoy it regardless as long as the effects, acting and story is compelling.
Lots of interesting points here. And if Tolkien's son had that to say about the movies (which I fine fantastic, even for an adaptation), then I shudder to think what he would say about Rings of Power. Regardless, though, the point I was trying to make was not about one's own decision to voluntarily opt-out of watching this particular adaptation. That is each individual's choice. The argument I'm trying to respond to is the statement of "if you don't like something, don't watch" that I suspect usually comes with dismissiveness and condescension. I for one, don't fall into either category of people you describe: I don't like Rings of Power for the sake of making videos about how much I don't like Rings of Power; nor do I enjoy it regardless of it's flaws. I have sought to praise and lift it on its own merits as I see them, and to critique it as is befitting all art. Even Tolkien took critiques seriously, though he was constantly surprised by how serious people took his little "tale".
I don’t know, man, I think if you don’t like an adaption, you should just not watch it out. Tolkiens world still exists, and being asked not to watch or care about the show isn’t you being asked to not care about Tolkiens works.
Unfortunate, but likely true. The thing that gets me is: wouldn't it generate MORE money if it was actually good?! Why can't we have amazing art in story telling? Audiences are so starved for amazing on-screen stories that I think they are willing to pay for good stories!
Loved (or hated) Rings of Power and you're ready to dive deeper into Tolkien's world? I recommend starting with Tolkien's "The Silmarillion." But don't go it alone! Download my tips for reading this epic fantasy adventure at ringspodcast.com
I feel like the sentiment behind "if you don't like it, don't watch" is actually "stop talking about how you don't like it". Often accompanied by "its just entertainment, it doesn't matter" and "its fine if you just turn your brain off" and "you should be grateful there's a show at all".
That's very similar to how I think it comes across.
Anyone who uses the "it's just a movie" line for any major theatrical release (and this show too) automatically loses the debate. I remind them that _it is a movie,_ something that costs hundreds of millions, was worked on by thousands of people, and shouldn't be dismissed like it's an elementary school play.
Well said. Not only is it a costly endeavor, but it is also a contribution to art and culture. Would we say that Greek tragedies or Shakespeare are "just plays" that don't have any bearing on modern society? Granted, not all dramatic art will be at that scale, but for something LoTR related, contributing to art is the bare minimum expectation.
"it's fine if you just turn your brain off" - if I could do that, I'd probably be less anxious, less depressed, and worse at my job.
You've articulated perfectly what I've tried to explain to people about why I get so worked up about ROP. Thank you.
I'm so glad you found it helpful! It's been on my mind for a while. Feel free to pass along a link to this video next time you have a conversation like that!
Godzilla Minus One had a budget of $15 million, managed to tell a touching story that honored the source material, won the Oscar for best visual effects, and well loved by fans. So, budget is not the issue, it’s the lack of creativity, the incompetent production, and the willful desecration of the beloved masterpiece that is the problem.
If anything the huge budget for _RoP_ is a red flag of a production out of control overstaffed with incompetents wasting time and money.
"If You Don’t Like It, Don’t Watch It" is like people trying to oust gatekeepers by doing their own gatekeeping against them. You don't beat an enemy or prove your point, by becoming him
What they're really saying is "if you don't like it, don't criticize it."
@@dlxmarks Yes, that's exactly how progress works, we let everything that is bad or stupid, propagate or just be. Should we tell them? Oh wait...
We live in a western society actively trying to undo progress by having the most preschool mentality of its alright when we do it.
I was able to watch first 4 episodes of 1st season, after that i have been only watching reviews roasting the show.
@@katerinaa9344 Never watched a single episode, only reviews.
I can't stress enough how excited I was when this show was first announced, not only for myself, but because I would have the chance to show an unexplored side of The Lord of The Rings universe to people that have never read the books. I, somehow, watched the 1st season and it was an absolute disgrace in every sense of the word. For some morbid reason I tried to give it another chance and watched the first 2 episodes of season 2 and tapped out. I just couldn't. I love the work of professor Tolkien way too much. Even if you remove all the elements from that universe and try to analyse the show purely from a generic fantasy show standpoint, it is still very mediocre, to say the least. I hope casual fans and people who never gave a chance to Tolkien's work don't feel disecouraged by this fanfic.
Same here. I was so looking forward to this show from season 1 until I saw two things: the teaser hype video that was supposed to be a conversation among "fans" who clearly had never read Tolkien; and then some over the top cheesy acting in one of the first trailers. Those were the first two cracks in my excitement. But as much as I tried, all that excitement is just gone now.
@@loreoftheringspodcast6538 1000%
Word for word what I thought when the Trilogy premiered.
And how have your feelings changed over the years, if at all?
@@loreoftheringspodcast6538 They haven't. This reinforced me in this idea that true masterpiece is not for mass audience and buried all hope that LotR will ever be put on screen properly. In the films I didn't find anything I loved about the book. Trying to re-discover the Trilogy also doesn't work for me. Subtle matters aside, it fails to deliver elements of a decent horror film or a quality war film. When I watched RoP, I felt a great deal of relief and joy, since to me it made much more sense (despite the numerous drawbacks, which don't bother me, since I didn't expect much).
I discovered Tolkien with the 1973 Ballantine paperbacks when I was 12 years old. I still have them; I treasure them for the deep emotional impact they had on me. They helped me to transcend an unhappy childhood. They inspired the artists creating the music I listened to, like Led Zeppelin, for instance. When Robert Plant sang about Gollum in “Ramble On,” or Frodo in “The Battle of Evermore,” or Goldberry in “Stairway to Heaven,” it was like being “in” on a secret, like being one of the few who knew where the key was that let us into Tolkien’s marvelous world. And in many ways this saved my life. For many years I read the books, starting each September with Frodo’s journey, until responsibilities and the demands of life gobbled up my time. I have watched the Jackson trilogy, however, well over a hundred times now.
And I have had the joy of sharing Tolkien with my sons, who are now grown with children of their own. I have had the joy of seeing Tolkien inspire them as well. May they continue to grow as strong men, like Aragorn, ready and willing to defend home and hearth, right and goodness, with no shame or need to tone down the strength in their hearts, not as modernity demands.
That is why this abomination of a show, this Jeff Bezos-DEI circle jerk, this ruination of everything good and righteous and aspiring in the works, and especially this deliberate desecration and demeaning of the culture of the man and the civilization that created it is so infuriating to me.
But thank God for the many detractors flooding the only social media capable of reaching so many; like yourself, I've listened to European Lore, Little Platoon, Disparu and Critical Drinker, and Gary at Nerdrotic, and Just Some Guy - young and FED-UP with this inverted reality, ready to defend and preserve the culture of Western civilization, making Tolkien the hill on which they are all prepared to die.
My generation will die out, as naturally happens, and we won’t be here to remind people of what they stand to lose if they lose this one thing. Yes! This ONE beloved literary masterpiece, and your generation, could end up saving civilization!
I definitely agree with you. It's like a welcoming letter to the world of Tolkien for the new generation, but a very disappointing one. I firmly believe it's up to the older generation, that stick to the source material, to truly give them a proper welcome to this wonderful universe that we've come to know and love. Channels like yours will most certainly achieve that. With high demand for authenticity and faithfulness to source material, the task is now in our hands.
I love what you have said here (and thank you for the compliment). In some ways it feels daunting and intimating to have that task before us, but like Frodo, if we can save The Shire, so to speak, then at least we should try.
@@loreoftheringspodcast6538 Preach it brother! You are not alone in this ;)
Rings of Power isn't an adaption, it's a big budget Fan-fic written for Tumblr. And it falls into so many of the pitfalls of bad fan- fiction written by amateur writers. Their statement about there being "no such thing as Canon in Tolkien" made this point crystal clear.
I know a lot of girls who write fan faction. Many of them very good at writing but who took up fanfaction inspired by a tv show, or movie because of their love for it and a desire to see it continue or write in the quiet unseen moments of a show. They did it for love of the material. Amazon isn't doing this for love. No. This is hate-fiction. They despise everything JRRT stood for, he and Christopher both. Simon Tolkien, Christopher's son, was at odds constantly with his father about selling the rights. Simon hated the LotR movies BECAUSE they were too faithful to the source material.
The man is a cretin and working with the showrunners at Amazon as part of the creative process. A failed writer in his own right, he has no lover for his grandfather's work. Ugh. I shiver with anger every time I think of that man. I have friends in England, and he's not well liked even amongst them, and they knew something like this would happen some day and it wouldn't be good.
Fanfic can be great. The Hobbit is Beowulf fan fiction
The Silmarillion is (in parts) a fan fic. It wasn't written by Tolkien, but by Christopher Tolkien and a collaborator. It was based on Tolkien's writings and notes, but it still involved both editing and actual re-writing. That's what fan-fiction writers do.
Even more so, Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings was a fan fic. There were parts of it that were pure invention. Significant characters like Faramir and Denethor, even Frodo, were altered. Parts of the plot were altered and invented. I could go on and on. That's another thing fan fiction writers do.
But do you know what the above two works had in common? They were mostly very good. So whether they were adaptions or fan fiction, canon, non-canon, or whatever other labels you want to stick on them, didn't matter to most Tolkien fans.
I happen to think the Rings of Power is mostly good, so far. It isn't perfect (like the above two works). And if I ever start thinking its no longer very good, yes I will probably stop watching it. But I will not bother to constantly remind other people how it isnt very good, especially since that's their opinion, which they are entitled to.
There are quite a lot of sub-par works based on Tolkien. Does this keep me awake at nights? No. Do I still care about Tolkien? Yes. I've no idea what kind of twisted argument the video is trying to make.
You bring up good points here. Notice that in my video or comments I have not labeled Rings of Power or even Peter Jackson's movies as fan fiction. I don't know if that's helpful.
The point of this video was to put to words some thoughts that had been simmering in my mind about how dismissive the show runners and the show's ardent defenders have been to those of us who have loved Tolkien's works for many, many years. To express my dissatisfaction with their dismissive attitude towards us. And to add why we care so much about Tolkien, and why we care about what Rings of Power has done. Anyone has the choice to not watch the show if they don't like it-that's obvious and not the point. The point is that those who profess to make art for a decades-long fandom ought to be more careful about how they treat the material and its fans.
My response is if the writers wanted to make an 'updated' or 'new take' story then whats the point beyond money for using an IP
Creatives are always doing new versions of older pieces of art. The problem is whether it's done well, or whether you have the balls to admit you're doing something new. They do neither. They are doing it bad and they are trying to make it their own while at the same time they are constantly, cheaply copying Jackson's films and crying about how it's all about Tolkien and going back to the books, so that they can capitalize on the fandom for viewership.
Plus , as it is mentioned in the video, we haven't even gotten an original depiction of 2nd Age on screen, they have already jumped steps ahead into creative transformation and fallen flat on their face
There is this idea, which was expressed on this video as well, and which I completely disagree with: the idea that Rings of Power somehow "tarnishes" or "ruins" Tolkien's works. Many people have expressed this idea and cite it as the reason why they hate RoP so much, but it's absolutely not true
An adaptation, no matter how bad it is (and Rings of Power is bad, let's get that straight), will never ruin the original. The sins of the adaptation are its own, not of the original. If you go and open the Lord of the Rings novel, is it now suddenly bad? Did the characters become nonsensically written, did the story become unbelievable, did the themes lose their meaning? No! The original is as good as it ever was.
If a bad adaptation tarnished and ruined the original, then works like Dracula, the Sherlock Holmes novels and everything by Shakespeare would have become unreadable long before any of us were even born, so many terrible versions have been made over the years and centuries. Yet that isn't the case, the originals stay as good as they always were and the bad adaptions will be forgotten. That is what will happen with the Lord of the Rings and Rings of Power
I agree; and if the idea of a bad adaptation tarnishing the original work was communicated in this video then that was a mistake. In fact, my last point was pretty much the opposite: if Rings of Power is someone's introduction to Tolkien's world, then that person has so much wonderful adventure and amazing tales to discover, none of which have been diminished by this current adaptation.
This is well timed, as Corey Olsen literally just released a video ending with "leave them if you don't like them".
Ah! I hadn't come across that one yet. But this idea has been pressing on me for a while.
Its really not that serious@@loreoftheringspodcast6538
Didnt expect this. I thought you were fine with it with the way you talked about it in the podcast. Ive read the silmarillion and currently on unfinished tales, it's an arduous journey but its worth it and youve helped me along the way. In a self flagelating white guilt western society anything not of the the last few years is something to somehow need be corrected to placate the goal posts they keep shifting
Oh no! I didn't mean to provide any misleading expectations. Simply that my initial reactions of the show were mild, but when I sat down to review the episodes and thought about them just a little, I was filled more and more with anger. Layer on top of that the other Tolkien content creators who started to say: "just ignore it" and I wanted to push back on that idea. I was attempting to fairly critique without "being an orc" as I outlined in podcast episode #171.
We MUST stop watching it, or we're contributing to this legacy tarnishing
The decision to not watch out of protest is legit and yours to make! I'm pushing back on those who can't take the criticism and are trying to push us out of the conversation.
@@loreoftheringspodcast6538 Of course, I understand your point. I wasn't disagreeing
I agree. But if somebody wants to sacrifice their sanity and watch it, to chronicle just how bad and subversive it is, and in how many ways it manages to disrespect the original work from Tolkien, then that's fine too.
Personally, I never even started watching it. Since the first posters were revealed it was clear what the real purpose behind The Rings of Power was. No. Just no.
The desecration of such seminal work of literature must be called out. That is why we watch it, criticized, and (in my case) ridiculed it. It must be mocked and shamed so that they won't do it again. It is because the carelessness and subverting of Tolkien's work with such abandon that calls for such ridicule. All they care is girl-bosses, first black elf, first black dwarf princess, shipping Haladriel, and all of that nonsense instead of the love of the story. RoP joins the rank of failed tv show such as The Witcher, Shadow & Bone, and The Wheel of Time.
On a side note, you have a face that cameras love. Great eyes. Would love to see more of that great mug. You've got a new subscriber.
Agree on the critique-I wish there was more care for the story. I've been reading some Tolkien Letters where he criticized drafts of a movie script; you could take his comments and say the exact same thing about RoP.
And thank you!
Thank you! This sounds like the actual answer to the question in the title of the video. @loreoftheringspodcast6538 describes his disappointment and sadness for what RoP is and could have been instead, some of the shortcomings of the show, how he cares about Tolkien and his legendarium, but none of those are good reasons to continue watching a show that you don't like. This comment completes the video.
Personally I stopped making a fuss if I think an adaptation is not up to the level of the original material. When I like an adaptation I will watch it and maybe rewatch it, and when I dislike it I will just leave it alone. If other people like it, I'm happy for them and I don't feel bad. Well, as long as people are aware that the adaption is not the same as the original and don't try to teach me what the original is like based on their understanding of the adaptation; fortunately those conversations can be easily turned around by pointing out that in the book X happened unlike Y that happened in the movie. Sometimes this even leads to interesting conversations. 🙂
Wonderful thoughts and thank you for the feedback!
I very much agree with your thoughts on adaptations in general. I genuinely enjoy both the HP movies and books. I enjoy the LOTR books (obviously) and the PJ movies, but not the animated films.
In regarding to interesting conversations, last year I explored The Hobbit chapter by chapter, with episodes alternating from analyzing the book chapter to how it was adapted in the PJ films. Big takeaway: the book is about a hobbit who had an adventure; the PJ films are about a dwarf who wanted revenge. Related stories, different emphasis. I'd be honored it you gave it a listen!
ua-cam.com/play/PLFsxZrKhL9_T2kVsMrVS9YHDl4MJiTYkG.html
Hard disagree. You don't have to stop caring just because you don't want to watch TROP. It's more about how you could/should stop focusing energy on something that you actively dislike and focus instead on the stuff you *do* like.
I watched Season 1 of TROP. Didn't enjoy it that much, didn't hate it either. Mostly forgotten about it. Didn't bother watching Season 2 because I'm just not invested in it.
That hasn't affected my enjoyment or love of Tolkien's work or Jackson's LoTR movies in any way.
Too many "fandoms" seem to end up in a toxic place where there's a hardcore who seem to obsessively hate the very thing they supposedly enjoy. It's quite sad, really.
You're certainly welcome to opinion. And I agree wholeheartedly about fandoms hating too much on the worlds they are supposed to love. That doesn't mean that fair criticism can't be levied when warranted. In my podcast episode #171 before Rings of Power season 2 started I laid out a few thoughts exactly along those lines after a friend of mine made a similar comment about the Star Wars fandom. I'd be honored if you gave it a listen: ringspodcast.com/171
"where there's a hardcore who seem to obsessively hate the very thing they supposedly enjoy." Which is clearly not the case here. Many people loathe and despise ROP, precisely because they do like Tolkien.
@@alexg3434some people hated PJs movies when they came out. I think they should just not watch the movies, and enjoy the books instead. Not make a channels dedicated to creating a toxic environment about how bad you think the show is.
@@Euthyphro One persons "toxic environment" is another man's "passion for the material" and "respect for the author". It is sad that too many people see it more from your side.
I speak up because I care deeply. I will not be silent simply because some people don't want to hear fair criticism. All are entitled to their opinion and their choice of viewing material. I for one, was ready to lift and support this show from its first announcements years and years ago; but now I simply cannot do so and keep my integrity.
Agree with your point in regards to George RR Martin writing the screen play. Only problem is it would take him 11 years and probably never finish it.
Yes, very true! Admittedly, I have read nothing of his works, and was just using him as a reference point.
I heard Amazon is considering greenlighting a third season. The nightmare never ends.
A total of 5 seasons seems to be the grand plan. The fact that zero headlines are touting the viewing numbers suggests to be that the show is still a flop for ROI for the studio; yet that is just a tiny drop in the billion dollar bucket for Amazon. I do hope though that they continue to learn, and maybe, just maybe, season 3 will have a believable story.
@@loreoftheringspodcast6538 I don't hope for that. If they do that, then the already-lost defenders are going to stand up screaming what a great show it is, but extend that to ALL the seasons. Regardless of the previous failures of lore. Or consistency. Or smithing practices. Or biology. Or walking sixty miles.
Regardless of how false the reasoning is, they'll say the whole show is fantastic and our society will die just that little bit more.
@loreoftheringsbroadcast6538 I very much doubt the next seasons will be any better, unless the entire team is changed. The team working on this show is a bunch of utter amateurs who have finished making the foundation - a story with no head or tail, no consistent world, no consistent characters; a foundation of sand - and now they have to build on it - a difficult task for the best writers given how little there is to build upon... except it's not the best writers working on it, it's the same amateurs as before! If there is a third season it will be a mighty mess
@@exantiuse497 Unfortunately a lot of the issues with it are now baked in and I don't think that the best writers in the world could fully right the ship. At best you could hope for a more internally consistent and coherent story going forward. But it is too late for honouring canon at least.
"u dont likeit u dont watchit" works fine with original stories. but amazon somehow (sarcasm) dint want to make an original story to push their agenda. they took a well known and well written work and just raped it. so no. we wont stop criticise them for that.
Yep, that's the idea!
The thing is, even when applied to original works it can be disingenuous and double edged. Because "don't like it, don't watch it" and "it's not for you" quite quickly turns into "You didn't watch it so it's your fault it failed". I am pretty sure that what is actually meant is "watch it and if you don't have anything nice to say, say nothing" so that stuff we dislike can keep getting made for the minority who do like it, at the expense of our time and streaming service subscription fees.
@@Karras353 I like what you're saying here. Great art (like an adaptation of Lord of the Rings) must be able to have some fair criticism against it. I wish they had given greater care to the story.
Also, Matrix mouse.
I think this only works if you're not paying attention. People are watching their phones then looking up and seeing a Numenor flyby and going oh cool!
Yeah, true point. If you aren't really giving the show attention, it'll likely come across as cool. Perhaps that says more about distracted we are with our "goldfish" attention spans.
@@loreoftheringspodcast6538
That reminds me of how irritating the editing was. Scenes did not have a beginning, middle and an end. You would just get 3 minutes and then you're out. Surely these fans could not read something like Lord of the Rings much less the Similarian.
@@AnnoyingCritic-is7rp have you read the Similarian?
@@reezlawA long time ago.
Time for a re-read! I love the Silmarillion
even at the height of my harry potter mania i would not have been offended by it being called basic because i was giving a side-eye to some of the writing decisions at 13 years old in 2001... and in the past 10 years JKR has demonstrated that any deep themes in her books were purely accidental lol
I'm glad you said that because many people LOVE that little wizard-and while I merely enjoy it as entertaining-I prefer the deep stuff of Middle-earth.
@@loreoftheringspodcast6538 for sure, i read the two towers after seeing the fellowship movie in theaters and it was like a steak compared to harry potter's $1 value menu burger. my lil mind was blown lol
Best analogy ever!
I didn't know beforehand that it was such a trash show and had hope until the very end. I regret it and wish I had never seen the series. It ruins the beautiful Peter Jackson memories and head cinema while reading the books.
There is almost a principle on TV shows to get crappy writers and train writers to be crappy. Sometimes they hire sort of "fitting" writers, often for special episodes, but overall they take the cheesiest, most uncreative and inexperienced ones they can find. (And it's quite amazing how low standard and uncritical many writers are themselves. It suggests that like in many other things their career really depends mostly on attitude rather than talent and skill.)
Though it's even worse how it is trendy, or at least was in this case, to get total nobodies, based on nepotism with JarJar Binks (aka Abrams), to be the showrunners.
It's like going bankrupt selling beer to Australians ;-)
I agree with the "dont watch" . Go find something you do like to do. Of course they will displace their failure
They are right. We must stop watching it, all of us that not like it. And stop talking about it. There's no shame. This is not Tolkien. I' m curious what will happen.
I can't read the minds of people, but I would wager that the higher-ups at Amazon are happy as long as the show gets regognition - whether good or bad. If their billion-dollar flagship project, "the next Game of Thrones", got no attention whatsoever, THAT would be a disaster for them
@@exantiuse497 That's what I've ment, lets be silent, no attention at all
Interesting approach: reverse psychology on the execs. However, I think that too many things "are now in motion that can not be undone"
I understand what you're saying, but after the parts I've seen of it that's not going to make me watch more. The books are great, I own everything he wrote that can be bought. I don't rewatch the movies, but enjoyed them when I watched the extended versions. The books on the other hand? I'm read them several times and was first exposed to the world of LOTR as a child. If ROP is really the best they can do I'm not going to watch anything else they create.
I've been a *huge* fan of Frank Herbert's Dune saga since I read the first book, and was positively gutted when I learned he died and there wouldn't be any more novels after Chapterhouse because he'd died. Since then I've re-read the books there are over the years and enjoyed them.
Yet I don't like the latest movies. I tried, yes the graphics are nice, but that wasn't what the story was about, far too much action, not enough politics, they fell flat for me.
Deciding not to watch is 100% your choice. No harm in that. Like you, I've read the books several times (I think my Silmarillion count is 6 or 7?); yet I do rewatch the PJ LoTR movies every year.
Dune was great as a political intrigue story. Admittedly, the latest movies were my introduction to that world, and I thought the first two books were an adventure.
@@loreoftheringspodcast6538 The first two/three books had immense depth, but I've been reading them since my teenage years, so decades. You'll only have analysis videos to rely on, as will so many people new to both LOTR and the Dune Saga.
I don't consider this to be a bad thing. Both Tolkien and Herbert had a lot of important things to say that people can learn from.
No analysis video or movie can take the place of reading them yourself however.
I Like David Lynches Dune Movie. Herbert was involved in it and had fun, but Lynch was excluded from the final cut, which ultimately wrecked the film. It's so obviously cut together badly.
But neither Lynch (as far as anyone knows) or Villeneuve filmed the critical banquet scene, which makes no sense to me. It was the equivalent of cutting a major battle, say helm's deep from the Two Towers movie and expecting everything else to still make sense.
I didn't even like the graphics. At least the Lynch version has great, colorful interiors.
For consideration, I would like to add the works of Isaac Asimov's "Foundation" universe, to Tolkien and Herbert. And Star Trek, and Doctor Who, and TRON, and DC Comics and Marvel and... anyway.
AppleTV's production of, how shall I put this, "some television trash claiming those names" doesn't just get Asimov or his Foundation universe wrong, it inverts every important meaning they ever had. Really; not just "mess with the lore RoP-horror-style", but make heroes more important than history, make magic psychic powers more important than study and planning work, bring casual brutality to the screen instead of Asimov's ideas.
There's a lot of stuff in that show I could pick on, whether lore or common sense, but lemme keep it stark and simple:
Imagine a room full of the galaxy's best scientists and engineers deciding on whether to archive the construction of the sundial or the waterclock. Ignore the fact that the answer ought to be "both".
The decision these geniuses come to - and yes, not being American I checked that under U.S. Common Core standards the importance of water is taught in THIRD GRADE - the decision these geniuses come to is to document the function of the sundial.
Why? Because "what happens if you try to settle a planet with no liquid water, how will your waterclock work? We choose the sundial".
If you spot the three key words in that horrifying phrase, congratulations, you're not only at least as smart as a third grader, but you're smarter than the entire writing, editing, acting, production and executive staff at AppleTV.
I came to Tolkien late; when I was a kid, I was reading Dune and Foundation. Seeing the same kind of obscene stupidity happening in RoP? Drove me to a non-Amazon shop to buy Tolkien's books and after The Hobbit and LOTR, I'm now on my way through The Silmarillion.
Movie graphics? Action? Lack of politics? Wrong story? Let's try not understanding the physics of walking sixty miles, or getting stabbed in the mud and getting up to fight, or gut injury and riding SIX DAYS NON-STOP or SURVIVING A VOLCANO.
How about just plain "thinking" or "grasp on reality". Let's try fearing for a society that thinks any of this is in any way acceptable.
... and that's why I believe these shows shouldn't be simply not-watched; but that these shows should be ENDED. With prejudice. And all prevented from ever rising again.
@@troffle What a coincidence. I just got through nearly 4 episodes of Foundation. Surely, it would get better, I kept telling myself.
How can i confidently say that is a terrible show and adaptation of the source material if I don't watch the show first? BTW is a terrible show and adaptation of the source material.
😂
Gave up after the first episode of season 2. Can't watch such great property desecrated by absolute incompetence
Great vid. Thanks for sharing 🙏
Thanks for watching!
I care about LOTR, and I very much enjoy not watching ROP. As for cheapening the legacy, all of the crap Christopher Tolkien has produced started that trend years ago.
I’m glad you care! I care as well. If you want to not watch RoP, that’s a totally fine choice. I’m just pushing back against those who say “don’t watch it” as if to dismiss those of us who care deeply and yet find flaws with RoP.
If not looking at it is fine for Tolkien's son then it should be fine advice.
“They eviscerated the book by making it an action movie for young people aged 15 to 25, and it seems that The Hobbit will be the same kind of film.”
“Tolkien has become a monster, devoured by his own popularity and absorbed into the absurdity of our time. The chasm between the beauty and seriousness of the work, and what it has become, has overwhelmed me. The commercialization has reduced the aesthetic and philosophical impact of the creation to nothing. There is only one solution for me: to turn my head away.”
This was said about the film trilogy that has since been called the zenith and magnum opus of the high fantasy genre. Hard to say how the original three films could have been better.
Some people will find the media enjoyable and others won't. The real difference is between those who won't like for the sake of making videos and those who simply have legitimate gripes. There are those who will enjoy it regardless as long as the effects, acting and story is compelling.
Lots of interesting points here. And if Tolkien's son had that to say about the movies (which I fine fantastic, even for an adaptation), then I shudder to think what he would say about Rings of Power.
Regardless, though, the point I was trying to make was not about one's own decision to voluntarily opt-out of watching this particular adaptation. That is each individual's choice. The argument I'm trying to respond to is the statement of "if you don't like something, don't watch" that I suspect usually comes with dismissiveness and condescension.
I for one, don't fall into either category of people you describe: I don't like Rings of Power for the sake of making videos about how much I don't like Rings of Power; nor do I enjoy it regardless of it's flaws. I have sought to praise and lift it on its own merits as I see them, and to critique it as is befitting all art. Even Tolkien took critiques seriously, though he was constantly surprised by how serious people took his little "tale".
Those who have legitimate gripes vastly outnumber any other category. If you don't like the critical videos, nobody is making you watch them.
I can't believe the budget is so high because the show looks SO cheap!!!
Yeah, that's a tough one to understand. Where did all the money go?
I don’t know, man, I think if you don’t like an adaption, you should just not watch it out. Tolkiens world still exists, and being asked not to watch or care about the show isn’t you being asked to not care about Tolkiens works.
Fair point, and anyone has the right to opt out of watching.
If Rings of Power is not a "fundamentally religious or Catholic work," it is not faithful to Tolkien.
Stay tuned! I have a few thoughts simmering about this wonderful statement from Tolkien.
The rings of power series is about one thing and one thing only " MONEY " ! THE SERIES IS ABSOLUTE SHITE and all TOLKIEN FANS know this!
Unfortunate, but likely true. The thing that gets me is: wouldn't it generate MORE money if it was actually good?! Why can't we have amazing art in story telling? Audiences are so starved for amazing on-screen stories that I think they are willing to pay for good stories!