Rogue with an absolutely insane build order vs. Dark Watch the GSL Super tournament 2021 on the AfreecaTV UA-cam Channel: ua-cam.com/channels/K5eBtuoj_HkdXKHNmBLAXg.html
I feel like he opened a narrow window of possibility to get good enough trades to actually have a chance. Rogue was playing to attrition after the steal the entire game.
@@chaptermastermoloc4171 haha. It's a shame, isn't it? But then again, if we were all geniuses, we would actually be normal. And who wants to be normal?
SC2HL, just to want to say how much I appreciate you uploading and editing down these games. If it wasn't for you I would have had to stop following SC2 completely due to the long game times (which I can't commit to watch anymore due to having more work). Again, thanks so much.
Pretty sure Rogue was aiming for this build from Dark. But that wasnt just pure blind risk, he can also mine from that hatch. He started to build spines as soon as he see creep from dark hatch
But wasn't Rogues base positioned wrong then? Or does it just look of? Plus, he brought the drones for the spinecrawlers before he even saw the creep. For pure mining more drones would have made more sense then i think. But yea you are right. He clearly knew.
@@TheSanco26 It was positioned off so it wouldn't be in vision, The mining is more of a bonus than the purpose of it, but it also allows him to play it out. He was banking on Dark taking the gold first. If Dark takes that base first, then it put's Rogue ahead. If Dark takes his natural first, then I think the less efficient mining might even out with the gold patches. Not enough to replace a fully mining natural, but perhaps enough enough to be comparable to getting a quick 3rd. I think the only way Dark would come out on top with that opening from Rogue is if he spotted the hatch before putting his down so he could counter with a more aggressive opener, or if he took Rogue's gold base.
I think that Rogue possibly didn't know Dark was going for that gold base. He knew that if he could get a hatch up with two spines at his opponents gold base, it would be worth it no matter what. And he definitely made money on it.
This. Dark was the moral victor here. So yeah he gambled and lost with the gold base; but other than that the proper title here would be 'how to make it to late game while consistently mining from half the bases from the start'.
@@eelcohoogendoorn8044 While enemy player is continually mining TWO GOLD BASES. We all know very well that ZvZ cheese play instakills enemy and you pull out such amazing chesse strategy, execute it properly and still struggle to finish game for 24 minutes?
@@eelcohoogendoorn8044 There's no moral victor, it's a game and he lost. If Rogue didn't have such a massive economy advantage and his victory wasn't riding on containing Dark, he wouldn't be making such agressive trades. Dark was "winning" the battles but because he lost the larger-scale strategy so early on, he needed to do more than just trade efficiently, he needed to wipe out Rogue's army by some miracle and then kill the instant remax as well, and then establish some economy.
I think this might be the first time I've paused a video on this channel to go and watch the source instead. Such a great game, I wanted every minute of it.
Rogue looked at Dark in the eyes before the match and based on his eye movement, level of sweat and breathing patterns, Rogue deduced there was a 85% chance Dark will go for the gold
Right at 0:23 Rogue can see the creep on the other side of the gold. He knows that Dark already has a hatch completed before him, but he doesn't know anything else, so he immediately starts up two spines on the backside of his hatch in a safe area because he doesn't know if Dark has preemptively started up spines. He knows if Dark is looking, then Dark will know he has a hatch there because of his creep. It wasn't a blind outplay, it was a calculated play to try and win the contested gold from what he could see at the moment.
I said it on the previous video with Rogue: The worst profession to have in the Zerg army: *_Being an Overlord for Rogue_* It still stands true in this game! :D
Hey SC2HL, I know this is a bit of a weird comment but I wanted to say that I've been having a horrible over-worked burnout inducing past few weeks. I open up UA-cam and see a video by you and my day instantly got better. Thank you for being there for me 🥺❤
Me before playing the game watching the video:"what the fuck is happening?" Me after playing the game for 2 months:"what the actual fuck is happening?"
Has to be one of the best games ever. Reminds me of darkest dungeon quote. " Great is the blade that cuts on it's own." Dark stood no chance, the more he struggled the more he bled out and eventually he fell under his own consumption.
I'll explain why Rogue did such a play. He built the spines without scouting because he knew that regardless whether Dark will make a hatch on the other side, he will need defenses whether or not he scouted would be irrelevent
The thing is it was still a massive risk because he wasted an expansion. Sure he could mine, but not effectively nor would he have had gases. After that he invested into defense which could mean his main and natural would have been exposed. This only worked because Dark was greedy. If Dark played standard then Rogue would have been way way way behind.
I would not consider Dark the best Zerg in the world, but I am never surprised if he 3-0's Maru or Serral. He's the guy that everyone dreads playing against.
It was a hedge play. Him making the hatchery there could have 2 purposes. If Dark has a hatch there, you make spines and "blind counter". If he doesn't, you just start mining there yourself and you have an advantage that way. It works either way. But he made the spine crawlers once he saw the creep from Dark's hatch.
@@simeonpolet1307 Those 2 drones can start mining if Dark didn't have a hatch right there. It's simple. Gold base vs a player without it is giving a lot of advantages in roach play.
dark threw that i think.. defended first 2 attacks overwhelmingly in his favor. but then just turtled and let rogue take his whole side of map instead of counter attacking at at the very least killing off the stolen gold base on his side. Even when it wasnt mining it was giving rogue a larva advantage
i hate the Caster's settings... feel like this took place in Korea, because those casters always have the HP bars turned off unless units are selected, and its sooooooooo frustrating to watch.
Can't understand, one of them would go mutas like at the middle if the game to kill all roaches of the opponent but only at the end one did it, why it's been so long? Can't get it
Noobs: Zerg OP (never play as Zerg) Reality: you have never in a trillion years felt the pain and anxiety that SC really is until you have a ZvZ that makes it to the late game with constant engagements where every single unit matters, just like that bane transfuse here. Being that said I hate playing as Zerg since I always feel in disadvantage, prefer to stick to Terran and Protoss but firmly believe Terran is way too good for their cost in the early and mid game. In other words they are OP that's why is the most played race.
One thing that always confuses me when it's a roach Is ravenger game It's why the other person doesn't build mutas. I'm not a pro but it just seems like a glaring solution that people rarely take.
If your opponent is already heavy on roaches, mutas can't kill them fast enough before you can amass enough mutas because each roach is far cheaper and hardier than each muta, so your opponent can simply bypass and catch your bases directly. Plus, with just a few mutas early on, they can easily be countered with a few spores and queens. Players usually have to wait till they amass a large enough bank to make a mass rapid transition to mutas to try to catch their opponent offguard.
I'm not expert but a spire is 200/200 and takes 70 seconds to build. A roach is 19 seconds and 75/25. The vespine is like 8 roaches and time involved is like 3 roaches and thats before the mutas can even be built. At 100/100 for 24 seconds those mutalisks are going to be expensive in addition to lengthy building time to add to your army in significant enough numbers to damage the roaches in combat. Theres gonna be a distinct window while you tech where you are going going be at a roach disadvantage in the fight even if a handful of mutas get out in time they won't donslenough damage to really change the outcome. The damage output from the mutas won't be enough and you'll lose the ground battle without being able to kill the roach ravager ball before it takes objectives. In addition if the enemy falls back to his queens he now knows your comp, has presumably won a battle/taken an objective putting you back and now can take his lead and run it out into his own tech countering your mutas. If you do win the battle again you cannot push your advantage with mutas if he has his queens and/or spores so IMO its really not a great strategy IF your opponent is on the ball. If he doesn't scout it or take advantage and plays too passive yea definitely but I wouldn't suggest playing around the opponent making lots of mistakes. Again I haven't played tons since WoL lol so I could be wrong.
Answer is pretty simple, roach/ravager is gas heavy composition while Mutas are gas heavy too, you simply can't possibly have enough gas to make mass Mutas.
Honestly a bit suspicious to be able to divinate that gold expo like that. Might've heard from somewhere what Dark's game-one build was going to be, in similarity to the Magnus v. Niemann conspiracy theories happening in chess right now.
@@jbwon2775 no defense at all, since I hoped he'd never scout it, and since he didn't claim the expand there I succesfully mined it out, from the other side :D
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Rogue with an absolutely insane build order vs. Dark
Watch the GSL Super tournament 2021 on the AfreecaTV UA-cam Channel: ua-cam.com/channels/K5eBtuoj_HkdXKHNmBLAXg.html
Nice to include the link to the actual tournament :)
@@simonhrabec9973 it’s always in the description, has been for years!
For ESL tournaments a cut of the revenue actually goes to ESL ;)
I was always a fan of having more income than unit production, allowing me to have more options to finish earlier.
It's really scary that Dark managed to persevere for 24 minutes in ZvZ matchup after such disastrous start.
Yes but he got dragged into a battle of Attrition. It was already over after Rouge Mined the Gold mine and Dark could not expand.
I feel like he opened a narrow window of possibility to get good enough trades to actually have a chance. Rogue was playing to attrition after the steal the entire game.
@@chaptermastermoloc4171 No kidding. We saw it. We were all there. lol.
@@asdfgoogle sorry not everyone is a genius.
@@chaptermastermoloc4171 haha. It's a shame, isn't it? But then again, if we were all geniuses, we would actually be normal. And who wants to be normal?
SC2HL, just to want to say how much I appreciate you uploading and editing down these games. If it wasn't for you I would have had to stop following SC2 completely due to the long game times (which I can't commit to watch anymore due to having more work). Again, thanks so much.
100% It's nice seeing these high-level play matches/highlights, without having to commit to sitting through hour-long slogs or entire tournaments.
Me too!!
THANKS SC2HL!!!
The transfuse on the bane at 3:50 Made my day 😂😂
I know. I saw that too xd
Yeah, I can't believe Tastoses didn't comment on that. Hilariously funny 😆
omg
He got lile 3 lings
Commentators: "These are the two best zerg players in the world."
Serral: "Am I a joke to you?"
My thoughts exactly, also Reynor.
Artosis still thinks Korean SC2 is the only real SC2
@@foobarbazbaa5598 Artosis job is to cast and hype. He is fully aware of Serral and Reynor no doubt...
I feel like when this two play against each other, they are the best zerg during the match
Serral's ZvT and ZvP are stronger than his ZvZ. These two could arguably be the best ZvZ players in the world.
This intro is like watching 2 super computers playing each other and concluding the same course of action is the best
I know, beautiful right?
15:31 - "it's been so Past-Faced..."
lmao :D
Pretty sure Rogue was aiming for this build from Dark. But that wasnt just pure blind risk, he can also mine from that hatch. He started to build spines as soon as he see creep from dark hatch
But wasn't Rogues base positioned wrong then? Or does it just look of? Plus, he brought the drones for the spinecrawlers before he even saw the creep. For pure mining more drones would have made more sense then i think. But yea you are right. He clearly knew.
@@TheSanco26 It was positioned off so it wouldn't be in vision, The mining is more of a bonus than the purpose of it, but it also allows him to play it out. He was banking on Dark taking the gold first. If Dark takes that base first, then it put's Rogue ahead. If Dark takes his natural first, then I think the less efficient mining might even out with the gold patches. Not enough to replace a fully mining natural, but perhaps enough enough to be comparable to getting a quick 3rd. I think the only way Dark would come out on top with that opening from Rogue is if he spotted the hatch before putting his down so he could counter with a more aggressive opener, or if he took Rogue's gold base.
@@blazethefaith Makes sense. What an awesome game.
@@TheSanco26 If Dark turns out to not be there, he could cancel the spines and just mine instead. If Dark is there he ends up with faster spines.
I think that Rogue possibly didn't know Dark was going for that gold base. He knew that if he could get a hatch up with two spines at his opponents gold base, it would be worth it no matter what. And he definitely made money on it.
I wanna see those resource lost tab, the difference must be abysmal
This. Dark was the moral victor here. So yeah he gambled and lost with the gold base; but other than that the proper title here would be 'how to make it to late game while consistently mining from half the bases from the start'.
@@eelcohoogendoorn8044 While enemy player is continually mining TWO GOLD BASES. We all know very well that ZvZ cheese play instakills enemy and you pull out such amazing chesse strategy, execute it properly and still struggle to finish game for 24 minutes?
@@eelcohoogendoorn8044 There's no moral victor, it's a game and he lost. If Rogue didn't have such a massive economy advantage and his victory wasn't riding on containing Dark, he wouldn't be making such agressive trades. Dark was "winning" the battles but because he lost the larger-scale strategy so early on, he needed to do more than just trade efficiently, he needed to wipe out Rogue's army by some miracle and then kill the instant remax as well, and then establish some economy.
I think this might be the first time I've paused a video on this channel to go and watch the source instead. Such a great game, I wanted every minute of it.
I watched this the other day and was shocked at how good dark is from behind. He is like the zerg version of a turtled Maru.
Rogue looked at Dark in the eyes before the match and based on his eye movement, level of sweat and breathing patterns, Rogue deduced there was a 85% chance Dark will go for the gold
Right at 0:23 Rogue can see the creep on the other side of the gold. He knows that Dark already has a hatch completed before him, but he doesn't know anything else, so he immediately starts up two spines on the backside of his hatch in a safe area because he doesn't know if Dark has preemptively started up spines. He knows if Dark is looking, then Dark will know he has a hatch there because of his creep. It wasn't a blind outplay, it was a calculated play to try and win the contested gold from what he could see at the moment.
Yeah the zerglings were there to scout and see how much Dark had invested already.
"A knife fight in a phone booth" classic zvz
3:49 The first time I've ever seen a Transfusion used on a Baneling.
I said it on the previous video with Rogue: The worst profession to have in the Zerg army: *_Being an Overlord for Rogue_*
It still stands true in this game! :D
You mean: being rogue
Since he plays hivemind
I like how fast Dark wrote "gg" after he had seen mutas :D
Dark saw the mutas, gg, Insta Concede
There are only very few problems, in life in general, that mass mutas won't fix.
Could we get some highlights of Solar vs Zoun as well, as it was amazing to see Solar play that well (especially game 1)
Always love to get recommendations, best way to reach me is on twitter (@SC2HL) - I try to watch all the major tournaments, but sometimes things slip!
Yeah, Solar is on fire this GST
Hey SC2HL, I know this is a bit of a weird comment but I wanted to say that I've been having a horrible over-worked burnout inducing past few weeks. I open up UA-cam and see a video by you and my day instantly got better. Thank you for being there for me 🥺❤
Hey man, appreciate the comment! My work has been killing me too but super happy to make your day a little better. Hang in there!
“These are the two best zergs in the world”
*Serral wants to know your location.*
God Serral fans are exhausting
he probably means now, not 3 years ago
@@wortyle I don't really follow SC2, I remember Serral won a major tournament. Is he still holding at top now?
This is a great way for me to pass the time. Thanks for the uploads and awesome commentary/edits.
This was just a masterclass. Definitely the kind of creative and entertaining gameplay you don’t get with Serral
what an epic game. Thanks for the clean edit!
We're not far away from someone performing a "Googolplex IQ [X]".
This felt like Rogue assumed Dark would just gg from such a bad start so he never really felt like trying until his ego almost lost him the match.
Me before playing the game watching the video:"what the fuck is happening?"
Me after playing the game for 2 months:"what the actual fuck is happening?"
The first 3 minutes of the game had more brain cells activated than most college students in their whole educational tenure lol
That early Dark hold with just a spine crawler and one baneling he kept transfusing was so sick
Dark's eye twitch right before he said gg lol
This channel is a great as the Mutas move in this game!
Every video from SC2HL "Watch 's 9000 IQ Overlord Only rush!"
That map control really won it for Rogue
Has to be one of the best games ever.
Reminds me of darkest dungeon quote.
" Great is the blade that cuts on it's own."
Dark stood no chance, the more he struggled the more he bled out and eventually he fell under his own consumption.
The one time we'll see mutas trigger a gg response.
3:51 a queen transfused baneling!
Awesome work and awesome plays that was good
“These are the two best Zerg players in the world”
Serral looks at reynor and smiles a cheeky smile 🤣
did he make those first two spines blind? big gamble if so
Rogue saw the creep from Dark's Hatchery just as he morphed the spines.
agreed with phantom, rogue was prepared for it and he reacted fast enough to build the spines
He can just mine the gold with those drones if Dark didn’t build the hatch. So a good calculated build
Insane. Simply insane.
dark saw half the mutas and just taps out. what a game!!!
3:50. Dark heals a baneling. Now that’s APM. Lol
Rouge is the sexiest zerg ever lol
When you have become the hive mind
That's a zerg equivalent of a cannon rush.
What a great game
Commentators: "These are the two best zerg players in the world."
Serral and Raynor: "thats cute"
i fucking love how Z v Z is just like two ant colonies going at it :') b
I was rooting for the underdog the whole time and then the mutas go Brrrrrrrr!
Great minds think alike
With how slow these games can go, Im wondering what it would be like if it had Golf Commentator-esque voice overs lmao.
It looks like Rogue might have been tipped about it. Are the games broadcasted live?
these IQ levels are too damn high!!
IT was not the Rogue's Hatch that was insane here, but how Dark lived for so long in this game after.....
That was clearly a 2 million IQ play
I'll explain why Rogue did such a play. He built the spines without scouting because he knew that regardless whether Dark will make a hatch on the other side, he will need defenses
whether or not he scouted would be irrelevent
The thing is it was still a massive risk because he wasted an expansion. Sure he could mine, but not effectively nor would he have had gases. After that he invested into defense which could mean his main and natural would have been exposed. This only worked because Dark was greedy. If Dark played standard then Rogue would have been way way way behind.
Dark put up a good fight
Rogues do it from behind!
Plan b was to take that base as a ninja expo and flood lings or roaches.
Is SC3 ever coming out ?
0:25 how
6:34 HOW
It's weird to hear Artosis cast with someone else and not Tasteless
I would not consider Dark the best Zerg in the world, but I am never surprised if he 3-0's Maru or Serral. He's the guy that everyone dreads playing against.
Rouge brain works differently
Best ZvZ ever
WE WANT TASTETOSIS MOAAAAAAAR
Did rogue see the gold hatch or did he blind counter dark?
It was a hedge play. Him making the hatchery there could have 2 purposes. If Dark has a hatch there, you make spines and "blind counter". If he doesn't, you just start mining there yourself and you have an advantage that way. It works either way. But he made the spine crawlers once he saw the creep from Dark's hatch.
@@jeroenstolp9889 Agreed, the spines were definitely a response to the hatch creep
@@Sound_Tech why would he have brought 2 drones if not to make spines?
@@simeonpolet1307 If he didn't need spines, then they are transfers to get mining earlier. As mentioned, it's a hedged bet.
@@simeonpolet1307 Those 2 drones can start mining if Dark didn't have a hatch right there. It's simple. Gold base vs a player without it is giving a lot of advantages in roach play.
where i can see the whole match?
found it!
ua-cam.com/video/Uzm6mgNkgqw/v-deo.html
@@Kionage thank you
Gold advantage!
С Алексом уомментарии так себ)
Dark is really amazing in scrappy games. His position was TERRIBLE in this game and somehow he made it into a game anyway...
CLOUDJITS
dark threw that i think.. defended first 2 attacks overwhelmingly in his favor. but then just turtled and let rogue take his whole side of map instead of counter attacking at at the very least killing off the stolen gold base on his side. Even when it wasnt mining it was giving rogue a larva advantage
Why do they have static faces?
Star wars es una zapatilla al lado de esto
Bly vs. Bly
i hate the Caster's settings... feel like this took place in Korea, because those casters always have the HP bars turned off unless units are selected, and its sooooooooo frustrating to watch.
Are these two people brothers?
Title is wrong. That was a 1000iq proxy hatch wow. hahaha
Can't understand, one of them would go mutas like at the middle if the game to kill all roaches of the opponent but only at the end one did it, why it's been so long? Can't get it
Ads every 4 mins. Ur rly doing this 4 the community :) even gsl doesnt do this
There shouldn’t be ads every 4 minutes. Let me check the settings, sorry about that
Tasteless sounds so different....
Glad to be early for this vid
why the graphic is so different ?
Pick a random number 200 or higher. Put iq strategy after it. Video title done
That's a 900 IQ strategy right there.
체력바 안나오는거 개열받네 ㅋㅋㅋㅋ
Noobs: Zerg OP (never play as Zerg)
Reality: you have never in a trillion years felt the pain and anxiety that SC really is until you have a ZvZ that makes it to the late game with constant engagements where every single unit matters, just like that bane transfuse here.
Being that said I hate playing as Zerg since I always feel in disadvantage, prefer to stick to Terran and Protoss but firmly believe Terran is way too good for their cost in the early and mid game.
In other words they are OP that's why is the most played race.
Maybe rogue shouldnot play agressive after he killed the hatchery..
One thing that always confuses me when it's a roach Is ravenger game It's why the other person doesn't build mutas.
I'm not a pro but it just seems like a glaring solution that people rarely take.
If your opponent is already heavy on roaches, mutas can't kill them fast enough before you can amass enough mutas because each roach is far cheaper and hardier than each muta, so your opponent can simply bypass and catch your bases directly. Plus, with just a few mutas early on, they can easily be countered with a few spores and queens.
Players usually have to wait till they amass a large enough bank to make a mass rapid transition to mutas to try to catch their opponent offguard.
I'm not expert but a spire is 200/200 and takes 70 seconds to build. A roach is 19 seconds and 75/25. The vespine is like 8 roaches and time involved is like 3 roaches and thats before the mutas can even be built. At 100/100 for 24 seconds those mutalisks are going to be expensive in addition to lengthy building time to add to your army in significant enough numbers to damage the roaches in combat. Theres gonna be a distinct window while you tech where you are going going be at a roach disadvantage in the fight even if a handful of mutas get out in time they won't donslenough damage to really change the outcome. The damage output from the mutas won't be enough and you'll lose the ground battle without being able to kill the roach ravager ball before it takes objectives. In addition if the enemy falls back to his queens he now knows your comp, has presumably won a battle/taken an objective putting you back and now can take his lead and run it out into his own tech countering your mutas. If you do win the battle again you cannot push your advantage with mutas if he has his queens and/or spores so IMO its really not a great strategy IF your opponent is on the ball. If he doesn't scout it or take advantage and plays too passive yea definitely but I wouldn't suggest playing around the opponent making lots of mistakes.
Again I haven't played tons since WoL lol so I could be wrong.
Answer is pretty simple, roach/ravager is gas heavy composition while Mutas are gas heavy too, you simply can't possibly have enough gas to make mass Mutas.
Basically its correct to say that roaches are a counter to muta play. Like you could say that drones are a counter to phoenix
This was a weird Z v Z
looks like
rich vs poor
rich will always win because they have resources 😢
Honestly a bit suspicious to be able to divinate that gold expo like that. Might've heard from somewhere what Dark's game-one build was going to be, in similarity to the Magnus v. Niemann conspiracy theories happening in chess right now.
Notifications gang!!
El único comentario en español :d
map hacks?
I stole that idea and did it as terran on this map
How did it go? Just set up tanks?
@@jbwon2775 no defense at all, since I hoped he'd never scout it, and since he didn't claim the expand there I succesfully mined it out, from the other side :D
what was your opponent race?
@@buffetize zerg
As someone who doesn’t play this game, the title made it sound like it would be much more interesting than it was. Disappointing.
+
СЛожна сложна!!! нихуя не понятно!Ё/
Sure if he does it its genius i do it its map hacks.