Turonover Limit for Audit is ₹10 Crore if transactions are through banking channels, otherwise it’s ₹1 Crore. Turnover Limit for Presumptive Taxation Scheme is ₹2 Crore. Hope you found the Q&A useful. File your ITR with TaxBuddy easily - filemyreturns.taxbuddy.com/prsundar
Through the video i clearly understood that i need not pay any tax because i am in net loss of 4.5 L, but confusion is that in which year ITR i need ro claim loss?? This year ITR before 31st dec 2021 ?? Or i will claim in next year 2022 ITR.
Hi, Chamala Arjun , this mean more than 95% of sale and expense transactions should be trough banking channel. In F&O , by default all transactions are from banking channel. There is probability of few incidental expenses being in cash and we should try to avoid such expense in cash.
Sir, i being a tax practitioner myself, wud like to highlight that for q5, the reply was that if one has loss no need of tax audit.. well, its true if one has only fno loss. But if in addition, one has salary income(abv 2.5 lac),, then tax audit is mandatory.. also, last question, reply was that brouggt frwrd loss cant be adjusted against presumptive income, but it again is contradictory becoz only expenses falling in section 28 to 43 r not allowed against presumptive income, whereas bf losses fall in section 70-80 which is not rrstricted against presumptive income... Ur team may contct me fr further clarification.
Can you tell which section/clause states you need audit if you have salary income along with F&O loss. I have been hearing about this but want to understand what’s the basis for this statement.
omg. what a crystal clear explanation. it's so beautifully made. This addressed exact doubts which i had. I assumed I ll have to pay 30% of 18 lakhs in FnO profits. Now as my turnover is 32 lakhs I can calculate 6 % as profit.
Shri Sujit Bangar founder of tax buddy has clarified the issues in such a lucid and simple way that it has made my understanding better. Please come up with more and more such Q and A sessions.
These two guys have not even seen ITR-3 on the new portal! You cannot show loss in the P&L section directly, as they have disabled insertion of minus sign to show loss (negative value) under “No books of account” at sl.no.65 in Sch P&L! So, the only way you can show your loss is by entering the total business expenditure and business income in their respective sections. The loss will be automatically calculated and transferred to the P&L section. HOWEVER, when you validate the file, an error will be displayed saying that the profit is less than 8% but no audit details are shown. It will warn that though the return can be uploaded, it is a defective return! Now it becomes easy for the IT department to send notices to all those who have filed defective returns!
The aim of this govt is very clear - they do not want retailers in the F&O market! Period! First they reduced the margin allowed for F&O, then they said equity F&O will no longer be cash settled, and now unless you generate at least 8% profit, or if you incur a loss, you will have to spend another Rs.15000 or more to get tax audit done! The message from Shri Modi and Madam Sitaraman is very clear: RETAILERS, GET OUT OF F&O MARKET! IT IS A RICH PEOPLE'S CLUB WHERE RETAILERS AND DOGS ARE NOT ALLOWED!!!!
Tax buddy team Thank you for making this video About audit 1)As you said 10CR limit is important Actually I don't want to go with presumptive taxation Even if I am comming under the scenario (Turnover less then 2/5 CR which is prescribed under Presumptive tax And profitability is less than 6%/8%) So can I simply ignore the presumptive taxation sec and only Focus on 10 CR is crossed or not if crossed then only audit required Irrespective of profit or loss Right ??? And I need to file only ITR3 AND SHOWS income/Loss from normal business ?????? 2)and is the same applicable For Intraday Equity ? In terms of Turnover calculation is same as future turnover ? 3)In STCG And LTCG The specific Percentage is decided Which is 15% For STCG And 10% for LTCG (Above 1lakh) So this comes under Captial gain right And tourn over is not considered for this right ?????? 4)The 10CR turnover limit is for Financial year 2020-2021 As well as 2021-2022? And total turnover include 10 CR as discussed can be included intraday equity ? Please help to clerify this So my all doubts get solved 🙏
Hi Aniruddha , Presumptive scheme is choice. It’s not mandatory. Secondly , don’t confuse these rules with capital gain. Capital gain rules are diff and separate. Thirdly , turnover limit of ₹10 cr is available from financial year 2020-21 and subsequent years.
@@TaxBuddy and is the same applicable For Intraday Equity ? In terms of Turnover calculation is same as future turnover ? And total turnover of 10CR can be total of f and o + Intraday equity
@@TaxBuddy I m a salar ied employee. My income is ₹4.5 lakh, I did option trading with turnover ₹4.3 lakh and had losses of ₹80,000, does audit is required as my income is more than the exempted limit of ₹2.5 lakh? I transferred ₹2 lakhs from my salary account to trading account, in balance sheet should I show these ₹2lakh only as source of fund or I have to show all the balance that I have in my accounts and received as salary?
@@TaxBuddy I m a salar ied employee. My income is ₹4.5 lakh, I did option trading with turnover ₹4.3 lakh and had losses of ₹80,000, does audit is required as my income is more than the exempted limit of ₹2.5 lakh? I transferred ₹2 lakhs from my salary account to trading account, in balance sheet should I show these ₹2lakh only as source of fund or I have to show all the balance that I have in my accounts and received as salary?
FY 19-20 - Profit - Presumptive Tax (ITR 4) FY 20-21 - Loss - Normal Return (ITR 3) FY 21-22 - Profit - Normal Return (ITR 3) I don’t think you can claim Presumption Tax for the FY 21-22. As the act says that if a person opts for presumptive taxation scheme then he is also require to follow the same scheme for next 5 years. If he failed to do so, then presumptive taxation scheme will not be available for him for next 5 years. Correct me if I’m wrong.
@@kishorereddy3888 Yes, maintenance of books of accounts becomes mandatory. But tax audit is subject to the turnover conditions. Just because you’ve incurred loss, it doesn’t mean you have to get your accounts audited.
@@robinson_rn it's not about the loss, it's about whether income is offered under presumptive taxation or not for continuously for 5 years. If say, in 2nd year you've incurred loss and don't want to file under presumptive taxation then maintenance of books is mandatory and get the books audited is also mandatory even if the turnover limits for tax audit not met. Just read section 44AD(4) & 44AD(5), you eill get clarity.
Big problem most of Govt Employee don't know English so this statement is like out off from their head and I am one of that since I know English also but it is just bounce. जादातर सरकारी कर्मचारियों को हिन्दी आती है अंग्रेजी नहीं इस कारण से जो भी बात प्रथम प्रश्न के लिए कही गई ओ अधीकतर को समझ नहीं आयेगी मुझे भी पुरी समझ नहीं आई जबकी में कुछ अंग्रेजी जानता हूँ।(जो अंग्रेजी नहीं जानते वो भी श्री सुंदर जी के फॉलोवर है कृपया अन्यथा न ले)
While audit is not mandatory if your turnover is below 10cr and you have sustained loss. Income tax website is not allowing you to file ITR 3 with loss and without audit. This was not the issue in old income tax website. Before passing on the information, would have been helpful if he had checked this.
Thanks for a very informative video for beginners. I am a salaried person and I have filed ITR-3 for AY20-21 to show my F&O losses in FY19-20. My ITR is processed now but losses are not carried forwarded. I have been informed the reason for that was to maintain books of account is mandatory which is missing in my filed ITR. Is that true, we need to maintain books of account while filing ITR-3 in case of filing F&O losses but not mandatory for showing profits?
sir totally wrong info by tax buddy about setoff of earlier loss from current presumptive income. you can setoff earlier business losss from current year presumptive income. explanation: 1) sec.44AD (presumptive income) says 'notwithstanding se 28 - sec 43C" , & these are only PGBP sections. hence sec 44AD over rules only these sections. 2) carry forward & setoff of loss are covered in sections 70-80 . (approx) which are not overruled by sec .44AD. thus sec 44AD only denies expenses which are covered under pgbp head & does not deby any c/f & setoff. now i am worried i should rely on tax buddy or not.
Being an Individual trader, can we trade using our savings account or we need to have a separate current account for all the trade transactions? Capital around 5 Lakhs
General consensus in the CA community seems to be that tax audit is required if FNO profit is less than 6% , irrespective of the turnover. Can you please clarify.
Hi dheeraj , please remember these rules about audit and presumptive taxation … 👇Turonover limit for audit is ₹10 cr is if transactions thru banking channel otherwise it’s 1 cr. Turnover limit for Presumptive Taxation Scheme is ₹2 cr.
Dear Sir, Suppose i am having 2 business: 1. Shop of Grocery showing income under 44AD 2. F&O Trading showing under normal cases where books of accounts are maintained. Can i show incomes as i said above? do i need to do audit?
Sir, if we have more than 3 demat accounts on one person name. Zerodha provides turnover in the tax statement but other brokers doesn’t provide. So, how the turnover is calculated? And if we skip any turnover from one of the trading accounts to disclose it, will it be caught by IT department?
Sir for salaried individual where he has short term gain in buying/selling of shares where the short term profit is compensated by share loss, should I file ITR 3 or ITR 1 is sufficient...pls clarify...
Sir, Say suppose I trade FNO with a some of Rs. say 10 or 15 or 20 lacs as intraday and Positional Options Trading with one or two accounts. How will I file the income tax? Please, explain in detail, sir.
I have a credit card i use the my ctedit limit i.e. 2.5 lakh monthly throught credit card i.e. add money to my bank account and then pay the bill afterwards ,, will this cause me trouble 🤨
Without knowledge, I used to file in ITR2 for all my losses till last year for my F&O losses. ..now this year I got profits this financial year, my tax consultant is saying, it can not be compensated since you filed ITR2 instead ITR3 in previous years....is it correct?
Can u tell or anyone what I do in my case that I am having loss of 2L in fno in 2020-21 till mar 21. But my fno turnover is near 1.8crore. So is it required to audit or not as my limit crossed one crore but not having profit.
Hi A K , please note these rules …Turonover limit for audit is ₹10 cr is if transactions thru banking channel otherwise it’s 1 cr. Turnover limit for Presumptive Taxation Scheme is ₹2 cr.
Thanks Mr Sundar. This is gem💎 Thank you for using your powers to the noble cause of helping others. I have one question please ask this in next video. As far as I know, there is rule in Income tax act that says that F&O positions taken to hedge the long-term investments in cash segment are treated differently for taxation purposes. If I had bought put-options to hedge my investment during 2020 crash, my put-options would have gone higher while my stock holdings crashed. But, because these put options was bought with an intention to hedge my investments from virus uncertainties, the net-gains I get from appreciation of my position (investment and its hedge) is supposed to be considered as capital gain rather than as business income (despite having F&O position) Can you please ask TaxBuddy and verify if this is true?
If your turnover & transactions in options is very less and bought only for hedging, sure you can declare it as short term capital gains & not business income. This is allowed as per my study in few tax websites & also varsity by Zerodha. Just be sure to provide proofs if IT officers dispute it. I don’t expect that to happen though.
This is the first time I am commenting on your video, but this time I just could not hold myself back! What an amazing content! Very very useful and lucid way of clearing major doubts
Highly appreciated this Q&A session Sir. Many local tax consultant is charging around Rs 9000 of audit and saying its mandatory to carry forward losses although turnover is below 2 Cr.
Please remember these rules. Turonover limit for audit is ₹10 cr is if transactions thru banking channel otherwise it’s 1 cr. Turnover limit for Presumptive Taxation Scheme is ₹2 cr.
@@TaxBuddy Hello sir, I have mentioned as 7lac as intraday loss when filing income returns in the year 2020. For this year I have profit of 7lacs in equity- short term gains. Am I eligible to recover that loss by compensating this year profit? Please advise.
@@TaxBuddyI thought the limit of 10 crores of turnover for Mandatory Audit is only from AY 2022-23. So If I am submitting return for AY 2021-22 (for FY 2020-21), The limit is not 10 but only 5 crores ? Please clarify kindly. Thank you.
@@TaxBuddy My trading turnover is 9.7crores & profit is 13lakhs. But I have used presumptive taxation for last 4 years. Can I simply file tax without tax audit this year? Asking because some folks say I have to necessarily use presumptive taxation for 5 years before dropping it. Is that necessary or can I simply submit without any tax audit because my turn over this year is >2 crores?? Please confirm quickly. Thanks a lot.
Sir I am a salaried employee... Last 2 years I had loss in FnO of 2 and 1 lakhs respectively, turn over is 65 lakhs and 40 lakhs respectfully and I didn't show that in itr and I just filled itr 1. ( I didn't not get any notice from IT ). This fy I had loss of 3 lakhs in FnO and turn over is 80 lakhs and I filed it and showed it in itr 3. Not opted any presmtv taxation. Is audit applicable for me? And do I have any problem from last 2 Itr ? Will Inc tax dep share these info with our employer ? Bkas I m a govt employee..
For understanding purpose, Profit/Loss = Sell Premium - Buy Premium. Then what is the meaning of Premium added at the end in "Tunover = Profit + Loss + Premium". Is it Buy Premium or Sell Premium?
@@PraveenKhunte both the prem from buy n sell orders are included. For example if i buy optiom of prem. 100 and sell it at 50(square off). Both the prem100+50 will be included in calculation
@@PraveenKhunte if option bought for 100 and sold for 30. Then turnover will be the 70(loss on option) + premium collected = 30 on sale of option. Total turnover will be 70+30= 100
I am a ca final student as per my knowledge In case a person has brought forwarded losses from the business or profession and in the current assessment year the person files the return of income declaring his income under presumptive scheme specified u/s 44AD or 44ADA or 44AE then he is allowed to set off the brought forward losses from the presumptive income. In such a case the person is required to file return of income under form ITR-3 declaring his income on presumptive basis under table 61 to 64 of “Part A P & L” of the form and declaring the brought forward losses under “Schedule-CYLA”.
For Option turnover, please clarify - Buy option premium is Rs. 10K and Sale option premium is 22K so profit is 12K. So Turnover is Rs. 32K(10K+22K) or 34K(2K+10K+22K) or some other way. Please guide
Another useful video. I would like to explain share trading for central government staff. Share trading not allowed. Only investment upto maximum of 6 months basic pay in a year is allowed. Investment beyond 2 months Basic pay should be intimated to the Department concerned. Pl note that frequent investment is also considered as trading which is not allowed.
PR Sundar Sir, if turnover is less than 10 crores, profit < 6% and total income > basic exemption limit(2.5lacs), then audit is necessary. You said no audited needed, but i can't find any link, please provide source material and clarify.
You are right bro. Total income means. You need to consider your income other than derivative tradind. And if your total income is greater than basic exemption limit the audit is compulsory. Even if you're loss in your derivative trading.
No, you are wrong. if your turnover is less than 10 crores, do not opt for Presumptive taxation (in case turnover is less than 2 crores) in which case, the audit is not mandatory.
@@Vidyasagarbb sir you're right except one case. The only thing needed for audit is turnover > 10cr, except the following exceptional case: If i'm following presumptive taxation in last year filing and i choose to opt out of presumptive taxation, then i can't go back to presumptive tax for next 5 years. And in the year i drop out of presumptive taxation, i'll have to get audited (regardless of turnover) as long as my total income is more than basic exemption limit of 2.5 lacs. Kindly correct me if i'm wrong.
@@architgemini9411 nope. You are wrong. If you break out of presumptive taxation, you will not be able to go back for next five years but there is no rule that you should get audited in the year in which you dropped out of presumptive taxation. Once, you drop out and not use presumptive taxation, your limit of tax audit is governed by normal rules of 1crore for business turnover which is increased to 10 crores if your cash receipts / expenses are less than 5% of the total receipts / expenses.
Very useful session....If fno turnover is higher than 2CR but less than 10Cr , ITR 3 is correct choice . Right? And also in such cases auditing is not required ?
and is the same applicable For Intraday Equity ? In terms of Turnover calculation is same as future turnover ? And Turnover of 10CR = Option Turnover + Intraday Turnover
This is the same question I had, I'm a salaried person doing options too. I'm new to taxation, usually I will give all my account details to ca office and do taxation. In this year I have a net profit of 1k in options. They put the 3k as taxable amount! Later I come to know they use different calculatiln in options and they said it's overall turn over *6 %. In my case 50k*6% . Now for 1k profit tax will be 3k
If F&O gains are more than 6% of the turnover, Can one use Presumptive taxation to save tax. For example ... if the gains from F&O is 10lacs and the turnover is 30lacs, can i opt for Presumptive tax and pay tax of 6% on 30lacs i.e. 1.8lacs.
Sir, if I opt for presumptive taxation in year 1, and i opt out of presumptive taxation in year 2 , do i become ineligible to opt for presumptive taxation for the next 5 years ?
Turonover Limit for Audit is ₹10 Crore if transactions are through banking channels, otherwise it’s ₹1 Crore.
Turnover Limit for Presumptive Taxation Scheme is ₹2 Crore.
Hope you found the Q&A useful. File your ITR with TaxBuddy easily - filemyreturns.taxbuddy.com/prsundar
Through the video i clearly understood that i need not pay any tax because i am in net loss of 4.5 L, but confusion is that in which year ITR i need ro claim loss?? This year ITR before 31st dec 2021 ?? Or i will claim in next year 2022 ITR.
can you please explain what does it mean "transactions are through banking channels"
@@chamalaarjun9422 not in cash mode. If you are doing trading that means everything happens through bank so no cash payment.
Sir I have one question in option we have to paid tax in based on turnover or net profit or loss please solve it many of ask same question.....
Hi, Chamala Arjun , this mean more than 95% of sale and expense transactions should be trough banking channel. In F&O , by default all transactions are from banking channel. There is probability of few incidental expenses being in cash and we should try to avoid such expense in cash.
I think, sending letter to HOD will attract CCS disciplinary proceedings
Only for central government officials
Very helpful. Sir please show once through an account the FnO turnover calculation
Sir, i being a tax practitioner myself, wud like to highlight that for q5, the reply was that if one has loss no need of tax audit.. well, its true if one has only fno loss. But if in addition, one has salary income(abv 2.5 lac),, then tax audit is mandatory.. also, last question, reply was that brouggt frwrd loss cant be adjusted against presumptive income, but it again is contradictory becoz only expenses falling in section 28 to 43 r not allowed against presumptive income, whereas bf losses fall in section 70-80 which is not rrstricted against presumptive income... Ur team may contct me fr further clarification.
Can you tell which section/clause states you need audit if you have salary income along with F&O loss. I have been hearing about this but want to understand what’s the basis for this statement.
No need of audit even salary having more than 2.5 L
omg. what a crystal clear explanation. it's so beautifully made. This addressed exact doubts which i had. I assumed I ll have to pay 30% of 18 lakhs in FnO profits. Now as my turnover is 32 lakhs I can calculate 6 % as profit.
Shri Sujit Bangar founder of tax buddy has clarified the issues in such a lucid and simple way that it has made my understanding better. Please come up with more and more such Q and A sessions.
Ñr dpl😊❤😊7y up i5. Qu
Very clear information. Many UA-camrs just confuse with lenthy videos.
Thanks a lot for much awaited video on this topic.👍👍
Sir, in next episode please talk about Intraday speculative income. I have all same questions with Speculative income.
Super informative session. Thanks a lot for insights about F&O taxation.
Very important and nice information provided , thanks sir 🙏🏻🇮🇳
I'm student what should I do my parents don't know that I'm doing trading also
🤔
THANKS SIR, GREAT EFFORT TO MAKE THINGS SIMPLE
Very useful ..Thank you Sir
nice work Sundar chhcha
In options for turn over we have to add premium collection means for writer and buyer same or diffrent formula
These two guys have not even seen ITR-3 on the new portal! You cannot show loss in the P&L section directly, as they have disabled insertion of minus sign to show loss (negative value) under “No books of account” at sl.no.65 in Sch P&L! So, the only way you can show your loss is by entering the total business expenditure and business income in their respective sections. The loss will be automatically calculated and transferred to the P&L section. HOWEVER, when you validate the file, an error will be displayed saying that the profit is less than 8% but no audit details are shown. It will warn that though the return can be uploaded, it is a defective return! Now it becomes easy for the IT department to send notices to all those who have filed defective returns!
The aim of this govt is very clear - they do not want retailers in the F&O market! Period! First they reduced the margin allowed for F&O, then they said equity F&O will no longer be cash settled, and now unless you generate at least 8% profit, or if you incur a loss, you will have to spend another Rs.15000 or more to get tax audit done! The message from Shri Modi and Madam Sitaraman is very clear: RETAILERS, GET OUT OF F&O MARKET! IT IS A RICH PEOPLE'S CLUB WHERE RETAILERS AND DOGS ARE NOT ALLOWED!!!!
Hi, ITR-3 is being filed on new portal with reported loss and without audit.
Sir... Please elaborate the turn over calculation in options...
Tax buddy team
Thank you for making this video
About audit
1)As you said 10CR limit is important
Actually I don't want to go with presumptive taxation
Even if I am comming under the scenario (Turnover less then 2/5 CR which is prescribed under Presumptive tax And profitability is less than 6%/8%)
So can I simply ignore the presumptive taxation sec and only Focus on 10 CR is crossed or not if crossed then only audit required
Irrespective of profit or loss
Right ???
And I need to file only ITR3
AND SHOWS income/Loss from normal business
??????
2)and is the same applicable For Intraday Equity ?
In terms of Turnover calculation is same as future turnover ?
3)In STCG And LTCG
The specific Percentage is decided
Which is
15% For STCG
And 10% for LTCG (Above 1lakh)
So this comes under Captial gain right And tourn over is not considered for this right ??????
4)The 10CR turnover limit is for
Financial year
2020-2021
As well as
2021-2022?
And total turnover include 10 CR as discussed can be included intraday equity ?
Please help to clerify this
So my all doubts get solved 🙏
Hi Aniruddha , Presumptive scheme is choice. It’s not mandatory. Secondly , don’t confuse these rules with capital gain. Capital gain rules are diff and separate. Thirdly , turnover limit of ₹10 cr is available from financial year 2020-21 and subsequent years.
@@TaxBuddy and is the same applicable For Intraday Equity ?
In terms of Turnover calculation is same as future turnover ?
And total turnover of 10CR can be total of f and o + Intraday equity
@@TaxBuddy I m a salar ied employee. My income is ₹4.5 lakh, I did option trading with turnover ₹4.3 lakh and had losses of ₹80,000, does audit is required as my income is more than the exempted limit of ₹2.5 lakh?
I transferred ₹2 lakhs from my salary account to trading account, in balance sheet should I show these ₹2lakh only as source of fund or I have to show all the balance that I have in my accounts and received as salary?
@@TaxBuddy I m a salar ied employee. My income is ₹4.5 lakh, I did option trading with turnover ₹4.3 lakh and had losses of ₹80,000, does audit is required as my income is more than the exempted limit of ₹2.5 lakh?
I transferred ₹2 lakhs from my salary account to trading account, in balance sheet should I show these ₹2lakh only as source of fund or I have to show all the balance that I have in my accounts and received as salary?
Superb explanation by tax buddy ceo sir
FY 19-20 - Profit - Presumptive Tax (ITR 4)
FY 20-21 - Loss - Normal Return (ITR 3)
FY 21-22 - Profit - Normal Return (ITR 3)
I don’t think you can claim Presumption Tax for the FY 21-22. As the act says that if a person opts for presumptive taxation scheme then he is also require to follow the same scheme for next 5 years. If he failed to do so, then presumptive taxation scheme will not be available for him for next 5 years. Correct me if I’m wrong.
Yes, I have the exact same doubt! and its separate for SALARIED and NON-Salaried. May be Mr. Sundar will clarify this in his next video.
Absolutely correct 👍. For FY 20-21 - Loss - he can go for normal return ITR3 but maintenance of books is mandatory as also tax audit.
@@kishorereddy3888 Yes, maintenance of books of accounts becomes mandatory. But tax audit is subject to the turnover conditions.
Just because you’ve incurred loss, it doesn’t mean you have to get your accounts audited.
@@iam_ram_ What do you mean by separate for salaried and non-salaried.?
@@robinson_rn it's not about the loss, it's about whether income is offered under presumptive taxation or not for continuously for 5 years. If say, in 2nd year you've incurred loss and don't want to file under presumptive taxation then maintenance of books is mandatory and get the books audited is also mandatory even if the turnover limits for tax audit not met.
Just read section 44AD(4) & 44AD(5), you eill get clarity.
Very nice video on taxation for option trader
பெயற தப்ப சொன்னதுக்கு ,punishment eh hahaha. Only fun 😂😂. Apart from that it was very informative. தல. 🙌
Sir this is an amazing video. Can you also explain the Turnover calc with an example for newbies
Big problem most of Govt Employee don't know English so this statement is like out off from their head and I am one of that since I know English also but it is just bounce. जादातर सरकारी कर्मचारियों को हिन्दी आती है अंग्रेजी नहीं इस कारण से जो भी बात प्रथम प्रश्न के लिए कही गई ओ अधीकतर को समझ नहीं आयेगी मुझे भी पुरी समझ नहीं आई जबकी में कुछ अंग्रेजी जानता हूँ।(जो अंग्रेजी नहीं जानते वो भी श्री सुंदर जी के फॉलोवर है कृपया अन्यथा न ले)
Really very helpful knowledge
Good initiative sir
While audit is not mandatory if your turnover is below 10cr and you have sustained loss. Income tax website is not allowing you to file ITR 3 with loss and without audit. This was not the issue in old income tax website.
Before passing on the information, would have been helpful if he had checked this.
Have you filed ITR 4 earlier?
Many thanks PR SIR
Thanks for a very informative video for beginners.
I am a salaried person and I have filed ITR-3 for AY20-21 to show my F&O losses in FY19-20. My ITR is processed now but losses are not carried forwarded. I have been informed the reason for that was to maintain books of account is mandatory which is missing in my filed ITR. Is that true, we need to maintain books of account while filing ITR-3 in case of filing F&O losses but not mandatory for showing profits?
I think trade wise P&L will suffice, its available in zerodha.
Very good information 👌
Nothing mentioned regarding trading turnover ..same day buy sell
thanks
Thank you 🚩🙏
what if i already obtain 44d for other business last year and no i have loss in fut. And opti. should i get audit
The date for filing returns with Audit (with loss) can be done by Jan 31st ? And still claim the losses next year ?
Very useful tysm
Wow very helpful sir
Fantastic fantastic service mr sundar. Thoroughly appreciate for this mind blowing session
V v valuable advice !
sir totally wrong info by tax buddy about setoff of earlier loss from current presumptive income.
you can setoff earlier business losss from current year presumptive income.
explanation:
1) sec.44AD (presumptive income) says 'notwithstanding se 28 - sec 43C" , & these are only PGBP sections. hence sec 44AD over rules only these sections.
2) carry forward & setoff of loss are covered in sections 70-80 . (approx) which are not overruled by sec .44AD.
thus sec 44AD only denies expenses which are covered under pgbp head & does not deby any c/f & setoff.
now i am worried i should rely on tax buddy or not.
Sir what is the average audit charges for fno traders
Being an Individual trader, can we trade using our savings account or we need to have a separate current account for all the trade transactions? Capital around 5 Lakhs
I love your colorful shirts sir!
If I have already filed IT return without presumptive tax, can I file revised ITR with presumptive tax with the help of taxbuddy.
General consensus in the CA community seems to be that tax audit is required if FNO profit is less than 6% , irrespective of the turnover. Can you please clarify.
Hi dheeraj , please remember these rules about audit and presumptive taxation … 👇Turonover limit for audit is ₹10 cr is if transactions thru banking channel otherwise it’s 1 cr.
Turnover limit for Presumptive Taxation Scheme is ₹2 cr.
@@TaxBuddy so if have a turnover for 4 cr and have booked loss, i dont need to file an audit . Right ?
Dheeraj Chitkara you don’t need to do audit. Pls file ITR-3 and report loss.
@@TaxBuddy ITR3 does not allow booking loss if transaction is done before 31.03.2018. What to do in that case.
Hi, Rohit Bhatt , currently you can file ITR-3 and report loss. It’s not asking audit as compulsory criteria.
SIr can a IT salaried person do FO trading, Will it conflict with his current employment?
Dear Sir, Suppose i am having 2 business: 1. Shop of Grocery showing income under 44AD 2. F&O Trading showing under normal cases where books of accounts are maintained. Can i show incomes as i said above? do i need to do audit?
Sir, if we have more than 3 demat accounts on one person name. Zerodha provides turnover in the tax statement but other brokers doesn’t provide. So, how the turnover is calculated? And if we skip any turnover from one of the trading accounts to disclose it, will it be caught by IT department?
Hello sir.
If someone is government employee and want to do F&O trading, then one can do it as HUF??
All transactions for F&O is online sir
Can we go for presumptive taxation if turnover is 1crore and profit is 40 lakhs?
Great info
Sir for salaried individual where he has short term gain in buying/selling of shares where the short term profit is compensated by share loss, should I file ITR 3 or ITR 1 is sufficient...pls clarify...
Sir, Say suppose I trade FNO with a some of Rs. say 10 or 15 or 20 lacs as intraday and Positional Options Trading with one or two accounts. How will I file the income tax? Please, explain in detail, sir.
I have a credit card i use the my ctedit limit i.e. 2.5 lakh monthly throught credit card i.e. add money to my bank account and then pay the bill afterwards ,, will this cause me trouble 🤨
Can bank employee doing option trading?
Sir, My FNO turnover in FY 2020-21 is around 23 Lakhs and gross loss is around 40,000. Shall I get my books audited?
Without knowledge, I used to file in ITR2 for all my losses till last year for my F&O losses. ..now this year I got profits this financial year, my tax consultant is saying, it can not be compensated since you filed ITR2 instead ITR3 in previous years....is it correct?
Unfortunately yes…
Can u tell or anyone what I do in my case that I am having loss of 2L in fno in 2020-21 till mar 21. But my fno turnover is near 1.8crore.
So is it required to audit or not as my limit crossed one crore but not having profit.
Sir i am state goverment employee i have already a demerit account , do you think i have any problems
ITR 3 which column to file if loss in FnO and turnover below 2 Crore.
(Not going for 44AD) and no audit?
Hi A K , please note these rules …Turonover limit for audit is ₹10 cr is if transactions thru banking channel otherwise it’s 1 cr.
Turnover limit for Presumptive Taxation Scheme is ₹2 cr.
@@TaxBuddy thnks for clarification..
But which column to show this?
Hi Taxbuddy,
if i want to go for audit.
Can i show FNO income as business income
?
and capital gains as investment income ?
Yes. but keep it that way for next several years. do not change it next year.
Sir, can capital gain be treated as presumptive income for filing IT Return under 44AD ? Please reply.
Hi Sanjeev , no. Presumptive scheme is not applicable to capital gain
Sir can we set off short term capital gains against futures and options loss ?
No Mr. Somaraju.
nice.
Sir, what if wife is also a Govt. Employee?!
You need to find a person whom you can trust having pan and 18+ year old
Can 80c ppf exemption be used for business income
Yes. If you are doing business as individual.
i had turnover of 2.32 cr in F&O with loss of 2.3 lakh, will i have to get it audited incase i don't want carry forward that loss.
As per law , you need not do audit.
Thanks Mr Sundar. This is gem💎 Thank you for using your powers to the noble cause of helping others.
I have one question please ask this in next video.
As far as I know, there is rule in Income tax act that says that F&O positions taken to hedge the long-term investments in cash segment are treated differently for taxation purposes.
If I had bought put-options to hedge my investment during 2020 crash, my put-options would have gone higher while my stock holdings crashed. But, because these put options was bought with an intention to hedge my investments from virus uncertainties, the net-gains I get from appreciation of my position (investment and its hedge) is supposed to be considered as capital gain rather than as business income (despite having F&O position)
Can you please ask TaxBuddy and verify if this is true?
I also heard this
Please ask if this is true If this is true I will save lot of tax I have been filing option hedges as business income
If your turnover & transactions in options is very less and bought only for hedging, sure you can declare it as short term capital gains & not business income. This is allowed as per my study in few tax websites & also varsity by Zerodha. Just be sure to provide proofs if IT officers dispute it. I don’t expect that to happen though.
Thank you so much sir for covering initial questions. I've been asking so many people on youtube Twitter etc but no-one covered these questions. 🙏🏻🙏🏻😊
This is the first time I am commenting on your video, but this time I just could not hold myself back! What an amazing content! Very very useful and lucid way of clearing major doubts
Highly appreciated this Q&A session Sir. Many local tax consultant is charging around Rs 9000 of audit and saying its mandatory to carry forward losses although turnover is below 2 Cr.
Please remember these rules.
Turonover limit for audit is ₹10 cr is if transactions thru banking channel otherwise it’s 1 cr.
Turnover limit for Presumptive Taxation Scheme is ₹2 cr.
@@TaxBuddy
Hello sir,
I have mentioned as 7lac as intraday loss when filing income returns in the year 2020.
For this year I have profit of 7lacs in equity- short term gains. Am I eligible to recover that loss by compensating this year profit? Please advise.
@@TaxBuddyI thought the limit of 10 crores of turnover for Mandatory Audit is only from AY 2022-23. So If I am submitting return for AY 2021-22 (for FY 2020-21), The limit is not 10 but only 5 crores ? Please clarify kindly. Thank you.
@@Vidyasagarbb hi Vidyasagar, the limit 10 cr is applicable from AY 2021-22 for which we all are filing ITRs before 31st December
@@TaxBuddy My trading turnover is 9.7crores & profit is 13lakhs. But I have used presumptive taxation for last 4 years. Can I simply file tax without tax audit this year? Asking because some folks say I have to necessarily use presumptive taxation for 5 years before dropping it. Is that necessary or can I simply submit without any tax audit because my turn over this year is >2 crores?? Please confirm quickly. Thanks a lot.
Really very helpful. Pls conduct like this with Mr. Sujit regularly
Yes very very helpful video!!!
Now in options also only absolute profit and absolute losses are added arithmetically , please provide the correct information .. Thank you
Sir I am a salaried employee... Last 2 years I had loss in FnO of 2 and 1 lakhs respectively, turn over is 65 lakhs and 40 lakhs respectfully and I didn't show that in itr and I just filled itr 1. ( I didn't not get any notice from IT ). This fy I had loss of 3 lakhs in FnO and turn over is 80 lakhs and I filed it and showed it in itr 3. Not opted any presmtv taxation. Is audit applicable for me? And do I have any problem from last 2 Itr ? Will Inc tax dep share these info with our employer ? Bkas I m a govt employee..
The last answer is incorrect...carry forward losses can be set off against current year presumptive income.
Please explain in detail the turnover calculation for an Option trader, as it is not clear by stating Profit + Loss + Premium
go to your brokers back office and find tax p&l button there. u dont need to calculate it manually
For understanding purpose, Profit/Loss = Sell Premium - Buy Premium.
Then what is the meaning of Premium added at the end in "Tunover = Profit + Loss + Premium".
Is it Buy Premium or Sell Premium?
@@PraveenKhunte both the prem from buy n sell orders are included. For example if i buy optiom of prem. 100 and sell it at 50(square off). Both the prem100+50 will be included in calculation
@@PHOENIXGAMING4HD so, the turnover of this trade (assuming 1 lot of nifty) would be Loss + Premium, which is 50 + 100 + 50 equals 200. Is this right?
@@PraveenKhunte if option bought for 100 and sold for 30. Then turnover will be the 70(loss on option) + premium collected = 30 on sale of option. Total turnover will be 70+30= 100
Good video sir. How option premium calculated with absolute profit and absolute loss
One of the superb video.many CA don't know in detail about fno calculation.this video is guide for them 👍
I am a ca final student as per my knowledge In case a person has brought forwarded losses from the business or profession and in the current assessment year the person files the return of income declaring his income under presumptive scheme specified u/s 44AD or 44ADA or 44AE then he is allowed to set off the brought forward losses from the presumptive income.
In such a case the person is required to file return of income under form ITR-3 declaring his income on presumptive basis under table 61 to 64 of “Part A P & L” of the form and declaring the brought forward losses under “Schedule-CYLA”.
Can you please cover transcation from trading in cash market. That will be very helpful.
very informative and highly appreciable 👌👌👌
cleared all my doubts!!
Great session! Thank you Sundar and Bangar 👍🏼👍🏼
For Option turnover, please clarify - Buy option premium is Rs. 10K and Sale option premium is 22K so profit is 12K. So Turnover is Rs. 32K(10K+22K) or 34K(2K+10K+22K) or some other way. Please guide
Still same question in my mind.
Now the rules have been changed … just total absolute profit and absolute loss and that is your turnover… no need to add premium even in options
Another useful video. I would like to explain share trading for central government staff. Share trading not allowed. Only investment upto maximum of 6 months basic pay in a year is allowed. Investment beyond 2 months Basic pay should be intimated to the Department concerned. Pl note that frequent investment is also considered as trading which is not allowed.
Please don't hide my comment
If we file retury through this site, can we get ITR-V acknowledgment from Income tax site.. will it reflect full details in IT dept site..
Yes Rajashekar
Whats the turnover limit if one trades mostly in Cash segment?
Sir please make a video on LTCG..and how to escape from it..
PR Sundar Sir, if turnover is less than 10 crores, profit < 6% and total income > basic exemption limit(2.5lacs), then audit is necessary. You said no audited needed, but i can't find any link, please provide source material and clarify.
Pls see finance act 2021. Thanks
You are right bro. Total income means. You need to consider your income other than derivative tradind. And if your total income is greater than basic exemption limit the audit is compulsory. Even if you're loss in your derivative trading.
No, you are wrong. if your turnover is less than 10 crores, do not opt for Presumptive taxation (in case turnover is less than 2 crores) in which case, the audit is not mandatory.
@@Vidyasagarbb sir you're right except one case. The only thing needed for audit is turnover > 10cr, except the following exceptional case: If i'm following presumptive taxation in last year filing and i choose to opt out of presumptive taxation, then i can't go back to presumptive tax for next 5 years. And in the year i drop out of presumptive taxation, i'll have to get audited (regardless of turnover) as long as my total income is more than basic exemption limit of 2.5 lacs. Kindly correct me if i'm wrong.
@@architgemini9411 nope. You are wrong. If you break out of presumptive taxation, you will not be able to go back for next five years but there is no rule that you should get audited in the year in which you dropped out of presumptive taxation. Once, you drop out and not use presumptive taxation, your limit of tax audit is governed by normal rules of 1crore for business turnover which is increased to 10 crores if your cash receipts / expenses are less than 5% of the total receipts / expenses.
Very useful session....If fno turnover is higher than 2CR but less than 10Cr , ITR 3 is correct choice . Right? And also in such cases auditing is not required ?
Yes. And if turnover is less than 2 cr but you are not availing presumptive taxation scheme , then also you need to file ITR-3
Taxbuddy should bring video chat service also 🙏🏻
and is the same applicable For Intraday Equity ?
In terms of Turnover calculation is same as future turnover ?
And Turnover of 10CR = Option Turnover + Intraday Turnover
what is the fees for filing in taxbuddy any processing fee or percent like that
Thank you Mr Sundar for arranging this session.
It was very useful and educative too.
This is the same question I had, I'm a salaried person doing options too. I'm new to taxation, usually I will give all my account details to ca office and do taxation. In this year I have a net profit of 1k in options. They put the 3k as taxable amount! Later I come to know they use different calculatiln in options and they said it's overall turn over *6 %. In my case 50k*6% . Now for 1k profit tax will be 3k
If F&O gains are more than 6% of the turnover, Can one use Presumptive taxation to save tax. For example ... if the gains from F&O is 10lacs and the turnover is 30lacs, can i opt for Presumptive tax and pay tax of 6% on 30lacs i.e. 1.8lacs.
Sir, if I opt for presumptive taxation in year 1, and i opt out of presumptive taxation in year 2 , do i become ineligible to opt for presumptive taxation for the next 5 years ?
Yes, Mr. Gemini.
You cannot opt presumptive for the next 5 years.
Sir. If we pledge the equity/FD/Mutual fund for trading, is that considered a loan as it is used for trading?
If you are using margin by pledging shares and then trading in F&O, then that interest is incidental. You can claim it as expenditure.