the less you know, the more you enjoy. my first Yixing is in the eyes of a connoisseur crap. mixed clay. red and purple, it was cheap, but its by far the best I have, because is enjoy it, and this makes every tea good.
I do not have a luxury to test different shapes from same material but I tend to follow the tradition when selecting a yixing pot, especially with the Chaozhou clay I always get more favorite result with rounder and smaller pot.
I think the volume of the pot and thickness of the clay is more important than the shape itself. After all, it's really just temperature that affects the rate at which the tea is released. I'm guessing the middle pot tasted "the best" because it was completely filled to the rim with water, whereas the other two had a small layer of air under the rim, with the last one having a taller air bubble because of its taller shape. That means the top portion of the tea pot is cooling at a faster rate than the submerged portion, which I'm guessing would result in slightly uneven brewing. But if it really noticeable? I'm really having doubts on this. Brewing one teapot 2 seconds longer than the other two would probably have more of an effect on taste than the shape. It's like within margin of error or something.
I think you're correct on this part. It's highly unlikely it matters to any noticeable degree. Because if this were true, after hundreds of years of brewing tea, there would be standardized pots that were deemed the best. And there is no such thing. Every single pot design is different. On the other hand "2 seconds of brew time" is like the "just noticeable difference" concept. When it comes to weights, for the human body to even notice a difference, the weight difference has to be about 20%. If you think you can tell the difference between two weights that are less than 20% different, you're lying because scientific testing proves you can't. And I highly doubt anyone could tell the difference between 2 seconds of brew time. If you say you can, you're lying.
@@SeraphX2 it's true, even two seconds of brew time is not going to make much difference. I used duration as an example, because Don isn't doing very specific brew times here - he's just sort of going by feel and explaining things as he's brewing. If all the water temperatures, water to tea ratios and brew times were exactly the same, I really doubt the shape of the pot would make a difference. The shape might affect how the leaf expands, but the leaf will expand either way if it has enough room. The inner and outer leaf material will also be extracted either way - hot water will penetrate those leaves regardless of pot shape, because it's the temperature of the water that dissolves the oils on the surface of the leaf, allowing it to reach the inner portion. Anyway, I enjoy Don's passion and thoroughness when it comes to these taste tests. They're obviously very subjective and someone who drinks a lot of tea and also sells tea (i.e. someone involved in the selection process) might be able to pick up those differences easier than a plebeian tea drinker like myself ;)
@@SeraphX2 Just to add something to the "it's a lie if someone claims to recognize any difference between a 2s brew" and what you should be aware by using such statements. I assume you're referring to Webers law and the fraction called just-noticeable difference (JND). As far as i know there's no evident testing requiring taste in any sort. Experiments were done just as you mentioned for weight or distances, for example. It is important to mention that JNDs aren't similar between the sensations. So you can't just assume that the fraction of weight is the same for another sense, especially when it was never tested. And even if so, what was also found is, that the fraction depends on the basic stimulus, so it varies a lot between 10g vs 10,2g weight or 1000g vs 1020g. Then one should expect something similar for tea, that's sweet spot brew time is maybe 5sec or less, thinking about japanese tea, or 2min plus, thinking again about japanese green tea. If you're able to tell any difference just depends. You're right with the 2% minimum fraction, but it's not accurate if you miss the reference frame, which is weight above 2kg and even more important that the test group was unfamiliar with the topic. So someone who's trained, maybe a chef who's very familiar working with 100g is absolutely capable of telling slightly differences. One could say 2% is the expected average. Nether the less are JNDs absolutely useful for example for music compressing etc., but you can't extrapolate this knowledge to every sensational perception. I for myself can't distinguish between this short brew time difference for most of the teas, but nevertheless should you be very careful with such strong statements like "it's not possible and if you tell me otherwise you're a liar."
@@SUNG0LD maybe I was a little hyperbolic but I think that's because he is so extreme with the way he says things to begin with. caramel and vanilla tastes in tea, a thing that is bland and/or bitter in comparison to flavors like caramel that are strong and sweet. one of his videos he described a flavor, among 3 others, as like some sort of cake? I'm just calling BS on that. I don't care how much tea you taste, you aren't tasting cake unless it's a flavored tea. last time I checked though, the teas he is using are not flavor infused teas.
@@SeraphX2 Caramel in my experience is not an uncommon flavor note in tea, especially depending on the type. I have a milk oolong that almost has a flan note to it. Another of them (a maofeng green tea) has a flavor like nori. It's hard to describe flavor without using these kinds of comparisons. It doesn't mean you would mistake the tea for a bite of cheesecake. Tea is flavored water after all. It means that if you described the flavor of the tea in words, that's the closest comparison you can make to that element of the flavor.
Great video. That one loose leaf on the cup at the end when comparing the 3 was really getting to me, I kept thinking to myself "is he going to see that and move it... please move the leaf off the cup."
1) I think surface area of clay in contact to water vs. total water volume would be the greatest contributing factor to difference in mouth feel. 2) Would love to hear more on availability of 100ml Jian Shui pots I thought I heard you mention coming. 🙏
Had a nirvana session yesterday with my little 100ml chaozou pot, I have definitely got to where I really prefer drinking out of clay when possible, but it's just so convenient to use porcelain...plus if I get distracted I don't have to worry about leaves going moldy in a gaiwan and ruining it forever.
My wife prefers the flat pot, I prefer round and taller. My favourite at the moment is tulip shape cos I feel the narrower opening limits air getting in while letting it stand between brews with the lid off. One thing for sure tho, the pots I never use depends on the fit of the lid. I find a flange lid much better than a flush lid. Cos I like to overfill and wipe scum off with the underside of the lid. Flush fitting lids look fantastic, but they are a pain when leaf gets stuck. Some lids just work, others jam non stop, making it a real pain for casual brewing. 👍
I actually find the cup is more important. I like the small cheap really thin cups cos they dont take much heat out of the tea, and when you drink it, the tea is the same temp as the cup. But my wife prefers her bigger thicker cup. But she will drink her tea cold. But yup, even the shape of the cup matters. Shallow flare to suck in air as you sip, or taller and straight to gulp it. Its probably all woo of course, but it does make for the whole experience 👍😂
Teapots. I also prefer a domed lid, not flat. For one thing, keeps the water off the knob at the top so easier to pour with index finger holding it down. The domed lid also has a bit of trapped air, so if you pour the the water over the filled pot you get the nice little spurt out the spout. It ejects that little bit of scum that has collected there, esp on first brew. If you have a flat lid, as you pour, the water can contact the underside of the lid, where your finger is. But for me, a really good pot does not need a finger on the top to hold the lid. 👍. Sorry for all the comments, but I have spent too much time on teapot features. Cos they are just wonderful things. And what better thing to think about as you make and drink tea. 😂.
Even the position of the spout root matters. For big leaf teas, its better if the spout roots from the bottom, cos then the floating leaves go down with the water, as the pot is diagonal. The tea can flow out before the mesh is blocked. A pot with the spout root at the top can result in a leaf blocking the exit, so all your tea goes through the same leaf, over extracting it, leading to bitterness.
I've noticed japanese shiboridashi, which some seem to prefer for high grade gyokuro, are shaped like the short wide one on your right in this video. I wonder how the shape effects japanese green. Since the leaves are usually smaller and more broken up than chinese teas.
Is it safe to say that the shape of the pot only affects flavor/mouthfeel when we are dealing with a smaller pot, say in the 60-80ml range? It seems to me it's the tea's ability to unfurl and expand which most delineates whether we achieve a balance in this respect.
Are all three pots from the same producer? If not, then that can account for some difference. If they are different producers maybe one uses different quality clay, not aged as long, maybe mixed w/ lesser quality material etc. I do believe tho that shape can absolutely impact the way something tastes. In wine tasting for example, if your pour wines in different shaped glasses it can taste (and smell) like a totally different wine.
Might be an interesting experiment to do the same teapot shape test w/ shou and then you could test sheng (newer harvest & also aged) and then test the nugget shou - that would only take a month of filming/editing!! Happy testing. I've definitely noticed a difference in teapot shape in the pu-erhs.
Forgive me if you mentioned this and I missed it. I drifted off a bit when you were counting to 10. What do you think about the surface area of the brew? That flat teapot would allow for a greater surface area, so more chemical reaction can take place between the air and the water. The tea could become slightly more oxygenated?
First time commenting. I mainly brew a Dòng Dǐng Oolong with a teapot like the one on stage left, while for Yán Chá (Wǔ Yí Oolongs), I use flat teapots like the one on stage right. Do my teapot choices suit the tea I brew?
With unfloding tea leaves there are two effects that have to be taken into account. Single tea leaves being blocked by the wall and multiple tea leaves blocking each other. To optimize the first one you want a tea pot with fairly straight walls thats just a little shorter than it is wide. Something like the pots on the front left in the beginning of the video. A Gaiwan also has a fairly good shape for this. For the second effect you would like a pot that is as wide as possible at the bottom so no leaves rest on top of each other. This is more important for delicate soft leaves like with japanese green tea. A reason for rounder pots that arent "optimal" is that they are much sturdier, retain heat better and can make a compromise between the two extremes.
“yeah you can’t see much difference (with the wet leaves)” no, i can very clearly see a difference the dish shape teapots’ leaves are more needle and dry ish shapes, while the dragon egg is open and bloomed, while the middle pot is just in between them, i’d say i can clearly tell a difference
This topic is even worse than talking to guitarists about "tone wood". I noticed you don't have a cube shaped pot?! You will have to redo the video. What about teapots that have bumps on the bottom to raise it up vs flat bottom? I read something about a raised teapot can change the rate that the teapot cools down?
the less you know, the more you enjoy. my first Yixing is in the eyes of a connoisseur crap. mixed clay. red and purple, it was cheap, but its by far the best I have, because is enjoy it, and this makes every tea good.
Here we see again a herd of little teapots in their natural habitat.😉
🫖
Great video! I may need to buy a nice teapot now. I didn’t realize it mattered as long as I used good quality tea and made sure it had enough room
I do not have a luxury to test different shapes from same material but I tend to follow the tradition when selecting a yixing pot, especially with the Chaozhou clay I always get more favorite result with rounder and smaller pot.
I think the volume of the pot and thickness of the clay is more important than the shape itself. After all, it's really just temperature that affects the rate at which the tea is released. I'm guessing the middle pot tasted "the best" because it was completely filled to the rim with water, whereas the other two had a small layer of air under the rim, with the last one having a taller air bubble because of its taller shape. That means the top portion of the tea pot is cooling at a faster rate than the submerged portion, which I'm guessing would result in slightly uneven brewing. But if it really noticeable? I'm really having doubts on this. Brewing one teapot 2 seconds longer than the other two would probably have more of an effect on taste than the shape. It's like within margin of error or something.
I think you're correct on this part. It's highly unlikely it matters to any noticeable degree. Because if this were true, after hundreds of years of brewing tea, there would be standardized pots that were deemed the best. And there is no such thing. Every single pot design is different.
On the other hand "2 seconds of brew time" is like the "just noticeable difference" concept. When it comes to weights, for the human body to even notice a difference, the weight difference has to be about 20%. If you think you can tell the difference between two weights that are less than 20% different, you're lying because scientific testing proves you can't. And I highly doubt anyone could tell the difference between 2 seconds of brew time. If you say you can, you're lying.
@@SeraphX2 it's true, even two seconds of brew time is not going to make much difference. I used duration as an example, because Don isn't doing very specific brew times here - he's just sort of going by feel and explaining things as he's brewing. If all the water temperatures, water to tea ratios and brew times were exactly the same, I really doubt the shape of the pot would make a difference. The shape might affect how the leaf expands, but the leaf will expand either way if it has enough room. The inner and outer leaf material will also be extracted either way - hot water will penetrate those leaves regardless of pot shape, because it's the temperature of the water that dissolves the oils on the surface of the leaf, allowing it to reach the inner portion.
Anyway, I enjoy Don's passion and thoroughness when it comes to these taste tests. They're obviously very subjective and someone who drinks a lot of tea and also sells tea (i.e. someone involved in the selection process) might be able to pick up those differences easier than a plebeian tea drinker like myself ;)
@@SeraphX2 Just to add something to the "it's a lie if someone claims to recognize any difference between a 2s brew" and what you should be aware by using such statements.
I assume you're referring to Webers law and the fraction called just-noticeable difference (JND).
As far as i know there's no evident testing requiring taste in any sort. Experiments were done just as you mentioned for
weight or distances, for example. It is important to mention that JNDs aren't similar between the sensations.
So you can't just assume that the fraction of weight is the same for another sense, especially when it was never tested.
And even if so, what was also found is, that the fraction depends on the basic stimulus, so it varies a lot between 10g vs 10,2g weight or 1000g vs 1020g.
Then one should expect something similar for tea, that's sweet spot brew time is maybe 5sec or less, thinking about japanese tea, or 2min plus, thinking again about japanese green tea.
If you're able to tell any difference just depends.
You're right with the 2% minimum fraction, but it's not accurate if you miss the reference frame, which is weight above 2kg and even more important that the test group was unfamiliar with the topic.
So someone who's trained, maybe a chef who's very familiar working with 100g is absolutely capable of telling slightly differences.
One could say 2% is the expected average.
Nether the less are JNDs absolutely useful for example for music compressing etc., but you can't extrapolate this knowledge to every sensational perception.
I for myself can't distinguish between this short brew time difference for most of the teas, but nevertheless should you be very careful with such strong statements like "it's not possible and if you tell me otherwise you're a liar."
@@SUNG0LD maybe I was a little hyperbolic but I think that's because he is so extreme with the way he says things to begin with. caramel and vanilla tastes in tea, a thing that is bland and/or bitter in comparison to flavors like caramel that are strong and sweet. one of his videos he described a flavor, among 3 others, as like some sort of cake? I'm just calling BS on that. I don't care how much tea you taste, you aren't tasting cake unless it's a flavored tea. last time I checked though, the teas he is using are not flavor infused teas.
@@SeraphX2 Caramel in my experience is not an uncommon flavor note in tea, especially depending on the type. I have a milk oolong that almost has a flan note to it. Another of them (a maofeng green tea) has a flavor like nori. It's hard to describe flavor without using these kinds of comparisons. It doesn't mean you would mistake the tea for a bite of cheesecake. Tea is flavored water after all. It means that if you described the flavor of the tea in words, that's the closest comparison you can make to that element of the flavor.
Great video.
That one loose leaf on the cup at the end when comparing the 3 was really getting to me, I kept thinking to myself "is he going to see that and move it... please move the leaf off the cup."
Him: how the shape of the teapot changes a tea
Me who spent my tea budget on leaves and heats water in a cooking pot
Having watched the video yet, but I think Don would agree that the leaves are far more important.
also i think learning to read temp from a cooking pot is such a flex, like, cooking pot and a gaiwan seems cool to me
1) I think surface area of clay in contact to water vs. total water volume would be the greatest contributing factor to difference in mouth feel.
2) Would love to hear more on availability of 100ml Jian Shui pots I thought I heard you mention coming. 🙏
Had a nirvana session yesterday with my little 100ml chaozou pot, I have definitely got to where I really prefer drinking out of clay when possible, but it's just so convenient to use porcelain...plus if I get distracted I don't have to worry about leaves going moldy in a gaiwan and ruining it forever.
My wife prefers the flat pot, I prefer round and taller. My favourite at the moment is tulip shape cos I feel the narrower opening limits air getting in while letting it stand between brews with the lid off. One thing for sure tho, the pots I never use depends on the fit of the lid. I find a flange lid much better than a flush lid. Cos I like to overfill and wipe scum off with the underside of the lid. Flush fitting lids look fantastic, but they are a pain when leaf gets stuck. Some lids just work, others jam non stop, making it a real pain for casual brewing. 👍
I actually find the cup is more important. I like the small cheap really thin cups cos they dont take much heat out of the tea, and when you drink it, the tea is the same temp as the cup. But my wife prefers her bigger thicker cup. But she will drink her tea cold. But yup, even the shape of the cup matters. Shallow flare to suck in air as you sip, or taller and straight to gulp it. Its probably all woo of course, but it does make for the whole experience 👍😂
Teapots. I also prefer a domed lid, not flat. For one thing, keeps the water off the knob at the top so easier to pour with index finger holding it down. The domed lid also has a bit of trapped air, so if you pour the the water over the filled pot you get the nice little spurt out the spout. It ejects that little bit of scum that has collected there, esp on first brew. If you have a flat lid, as you pour, the water can contact the underside of the lid, where your finger is. But for me, a really good pot does not need a finger on the top to hold the lid. 👍. Sorry for all the comments, but I have spent too much time on teapot features. Cos they are just wonderful things. And what better thing to think about as you make and drink tea. 😂.
Even the position of the spout root matters. For big leaf teas, its better if the spout roots from the bottom, cos then the floating leaves go down with the water, as the pot is diagonal. The tea can flow out before the mesh is blocked. A pot with the spout root at the top can result in a leaf blocking the exit, so all your tea goes through the same leaf, over extracting it, leading to bitterness.
@@TheScotsalan I preheat cups with a little of the water from the kettle before I add the tea, I find it helps with heat loss from the cups!
I've noticed japanese shiboridashi, which some seem to prefer for high grade gyokuro, are shaped like the short wide one on your right in this video.
I wonder how the shape effects japanese green. Since the leaves are usually smaller and more broken up than chinese teas.
Very nice video 😍 thank you for sharing 🙏
Is it safe to say that the shape of the pot only affects flavor/mouthfeel when we are dealing with a smaller pot, say in the 60-80ml range? It seems to me it's the tea's ability to unfurl and expand which most delineates whether we achieve a balance in this respect.
Are all three pots from the same producer? If not, then that can account for some difference. If they are different producers maybe one uses different quality clay, not aged as long, maybe mixed w/ lesser quality material etc. I do believe tho that shape can absolutely impact the way something tastes. In wine tasting for example, if your pour wines in different shaped glasses it can taste (and smell) like a totally different wine.
Might be an interesting experiment to do the same teapot shape test w/ shou and then you could test sheng (newer harvest & also aged) and then test the nugget shou - that would only take a month of filming/editing!! Happy testing. I've definitely noticed a difference in teapot shape in the pu-erhs.
Which shapes made the difference?
Forgive me if you mentioned this and I missed it. I drifted off a bit when you were counting to 10. What do you think about the surface area of the brew? That flat teapot would allow for a greater surface area, so more chemical reaction can take place between the air and the water. The tea could become slightly more oxygenated?
When are fully handmade yixing teapots back in stock? like the pear-shaped zini!😊😊😊
greetings from Switzerland🤗
I'd like to see comparison between the three shapes of tea pots and a gaiwan.
i drink exclusively ripe puerh, do you guys think a tall teapot would make them worse or better?
Fun vid!
First time commenting. I mainly brew a Dòng Dǐng Oolong with a teapot like the one on stage left, while for Yán Chá (Wǔ Yí Oolongs), I use flat teapots like the one on stage right. Do my teapot choices suit the tea I brew?
what in the ding dong are you talking about ?
希望能有一期今年的明前龙井测试🙏
Where can I buy yixing clay teapots ?
If I order anything online, does Mei Leaf ship to Australia?
Yes we deliver to Australia
I do love tea…but not this much! 😆
How do you keep your teeth so white drinking all that tea?
With unfloding tea leaves there are two effects that have to be taken into account. Single tea leaves being blocked by the wall and multiple tea leaves blocking each other.
To optimize the first one you want a tea pot with fairly straight walls thats just a little shorter than it is wide. Something like the pots on the front left in the beginning of the video. A Gaiwan also has a fairly good shape for this.
For the second effect you would like a pot that is as wide as possible at the bottom so no leaves rest on top of each other. This is more important for delicate soft leaves like with japanese green tea.
A reason for rounder pots that arent "optimal" is that they are much sturdier, retain heat better and can make a compromise between the two extremes.
“yeah you can’t see much difference (with the wet leaves)” no, i can very clearly see a difference the dish shape teapots’ leaves are more needle and dry ish shapes, while the dragon egg is open and bloomed, while the middle pot is just in between them, i’d say i can clearly tell a difference
Great, i see that the frist tea is lichter
so basically doesn't matter if you get a big enough pot
Juianshui dragon egg all day
Am I the only one who is super super picky with what shape teapot I get?
Am poor because bought too much tea, send teaware pls T.T
This topic is even worse than talking to guitarists about "tone wood". I noticed you don't have a cube shaped pot?! You will have to redo the video. What about teapots that have bumps on the bottom to raise it up vs flat bottom? I read something about a raised teapot can change the rate that the teapot cools down?
Is this another size matters video.
Really like your content, just stop shaking those poor pots (and gaiwans) please good sir🫢