From the Battletech Fandom: we welcome all newcomers. Proxy in your 40K models if you want to, it doesn't take a lot more than a sheet of paper and a pen to play!
I actually really went back and forth about putting Battletech on this list, but it's been really hard to get those boxed sets over here and I wanted to limited how many systems I had on here without direct experience. It's been about 20 years since I played BT. lol
@@scannerbarkly 3D printers and STL files are quite easy to find, Ral Partha Europe sells old sculpts while Ironwind Metals sells more recent ones, PDFs are available, but yeah I get your point. Hell, I'll get my first real box set some time in the next month or so from the kickstarter about 5 years ago. (Probably worth mentioning I live in the UK)
@@scannerbarkly You're welcome! Ral Partha Europe sells two Mechwarrior 3 tie-in packs with 4 Mechs in for £30~ each, which is where I got started. That being said, I actually started playing with a few printouts, some dice and a pen, marking positions and facing by drawing on the map itself! I've now about 80 models, with 20 Mechs and the rest being foot and jump infantry and tanks, a VTOL in the wings waiting to be put together, and a ton of Epic 40K Rhinos as APCs
Wait, you have Primaris? Then you have Peregrine Mechs. You have Reivers? Then you have Valiants. Wait, you have Kastellan robots? You mean, Pillagers? Are they Crisis suits, or you mean Grasshoppers? And so on and so forth. xD
+1 for One Page Rules, it’s worth stressing that their rulesets are designed to accommodate all of your existing 40k and AoS minis so there’s no need to buy their minis. They do customised rulesets for alternatives to Kill Team, Necromunda and Fantasy Battle as well as their main 40k and AoS replacements all of which can be downloaded for free,
tried the one page rules and not my cup of tea main problem for me is, those rules are what the originals wanted to be (if GW ever would write good, simple rules), but they are also very similar in gameplay and more or less all the things I doin't like are still there so if you really love and enjoy the current GW rules, OPR is the perfect place to look at but if you have your problems with the rules you might be better off with something else
Also, they also provide a Points Calculator if you join their Patreon just in case you have some models that aren't available on the standard army books, *and* they support other miniature lines, like the Forge Fathers from Mantic (basically space dwarves). And, if that's not enough, the game is so simple it is so easy to modify and use straight up use rules from the 40k rulesets, If the missions provided in the full rules are not enough.
I would love this kinda Necromunda style... stealing parts off IMC/Ares/Apex post battles and sellotaping it to my mechs... As well as dodgy ai that have their own characteristics/feelings after a battle. Would be so much fun IMO
Well, there exists a certain well-established sci-fi franchise in the world of Tabletop Miniatures Wargaming, named BattleTech / MechWarrior. :-) The setting is fairly similar.
Thanks for the kind words! Gaslands was my first published game, and have it be described as a cult classic is just insane to me. I’m so happy people get so much enjoyment out of mashing their toy cars together. I certainly do! Cheers dude!
Gaslands saved my gaming career! I was deep in 40K, and then 6th edition ruined my Nid army, and 7th drove me away hard. I also had £200 of beautiful Raging Heroes figures on my shelf and I was scared to start painting them as my lack of talent would never do them justice! I didn't paint of game for a year. Then I stumbled across Gaslands, and have now taught dozens of friends to play! I pledged to never convert or paint my cars: just Hot Wheels as they come; never research lists or tactics online. Never learn from my mistakes! And suddenly I was loving gaming again. Such a great, simple system, so exciting to play, and so accessible. I have taught 6yr olds to play!
I love Gaslands, no game I've tried comes close for laugh out loud fun. I do really enjoy modding Hotwheels cars too, I've always enjoyed scratchbuilding stuff more than just painting according to strict system rules or historical accuracy. Thanks for making it.
I wouldn't say that I'm boycotting Games Workshop so much as I found out about these other games, discovered I like them better and I'm just going to play them from now on.
For those who are sick of 40K and/or GW but looking for a way to use all the minis you already have, I would recommend Grimdark Future. The basic rules are free (including faction lists) and the deluxe version is only five bucks on Wargames Vault. It's not just "miniatures agnostic" - you can basically use the armies you've already got as basically the same kind of army they were, because there are analogues for just about all of them. It's 40K without the expense, abuse, or baggage. And it's super simple to learn and play.
SW Legion is still a lot cheaper than buying things new for 40k btw. The rules are free online, there’s no codexes and most the expansions are $30/25 where GW a new box of 10 space marines costs $70 half the price for a single complete unit and it SW Legion you need less units to have a full army
Mantic games is not the only company with former GW crew, Warlord Games has THE creator of 40k (who created Beyond the gates of Antares for the said corp)
About Infinity: First, they are introducing Plastic models (for the moment, for big models) SioCast style, it's been announced a few weeks ago and there are examples in the hands of several people who made videos. Also, only ONE model has assembly instruction (and those are in their webpage). On the other hand, the rulebooks are free, and the army maker allows to make lists easily and print those for fast use (plus there's an Android app). Second: Operation boxes are 2 player starters, with "tutorial-level" rules and a narrative escalation series of games. Those boxes are paired with a "Beyond" box, come with enough scenery to assemble half of a full table, and after a year the Operations & Beyond boxes are "retired", into two "Army Box" (one per faction, but no scenery nor rules included). Third: You won't stop at the 20 models you could deem enough to play anything. Trust me, you will keep buying, or leave, there is no middle ground. Fourth: there is an RPG by Modiphius (crappy engine from my perspective) full of officially endorsed lore (better written and more coherent than the company's fluff books in general). The bad part is that not all people bothers to truly read the rulebooks, so sometimes it seems like you are answerig the same questions day after day, and others the talks devolve in a sorta live Lawyer's movie. Be advised: ALL the abilities introduced in N4 interact heavily with each other, and the d20-based Blackjack engine is one of the most random I've ever seen.
I stopped playing 40k in like 2011 due to the models becoming untenable to me due to size & cost AUS price gouging is real. Found Infinity and Bolt Action we're both accessible to me in the club and haven't stopped playing either since both scratch completely different itch with the models and rules. Plus games sizes and time to complete a game. I recommend looking into both neither killed 40k for me but both replaced it effectively all the way to 8th Ed and 9th looks to add nothing to make want to invest in GW again.
They really do have these phases where they go out of their way to really hurt their own credibility. It's always one step forward and two steps back with them, as a company.
Funny how when I mentioned their shady short-term schemes a few years back, fanboys shouted me down with "But this is the _NEW_ GW!" ... meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Got that monkey off my back about a year ago and haven't looked back.
@@danepatterson8107 They're the leader because their fanboys will take the treatment and ask for more. They're also the leaders in leaving money on the table - underprinting releases and an absolute disregard for market study. As I've pointed out before, popularity is not a barometer for quality. Often the opposite as a popular thing must by definition cater to a lower denominator.
curious, why is warmachine/hordes not included here? The minis have GW like prices its right.. but the game itself looks like it really allows for some creative lists, rules are easy to find online for both units and the game itself. Hell, I can already start to ponder army lists without ever having purchased a thing, thats how available information is. Really the biggest think holding me back (beyond my own painting skills) is that here in france I'm worried I may not find other players or local stores selling the minis (sure can get deliveres, but if no store sells that stuff it drops the likelyhood I'd ever find someone to play with a lot)
The only reason it's not on the list is is that I have no personal experience with the game systems, and unlike The Drowned Earth I had not done any research or did not intend on purchasing it myself over the coming months. It would have just felt weird to tell other people they should think about playing a game that I myself probably won't be jumping into for another 12-18 months at the earliest. Hope that makes sense.
@@scannerbarkly I've been playing Warmachine and Hordes with a few first gen starter boxes and some additional Jacks/Warbeasts and some small units. The game is incredibly fun! And while the models are expensive, you don't need as many for actually fun skirmishes. Also, Privateer Press not having an iron grip over the community is a big plus. I highly recommend checking out those systems!
Great list. Gonna add Warmachine/Hordes by Privateer Press while I'm here. Been playing it for years now, and I will honestly say it plays better than 40k in almost all ways - plus the lore is not bad at all. If you like steampunk/hextech/magic/mechs/giant beasts and more, than Warmachine/Hordes is for you!
I heard there is a certain disdain about them in tabletop community because of the fuckups they had earlier in their history. From your point of view how are they faring now, have they recovered from that? I kinda want to get some of their models (the retribution of scyrah really hits the space elves vibe that I like) but not sure because of the stuff which I described higher
@@bogdanignatovych3042 I'm not sure about "early history" fuckups. I've played all 3 rule versions and I found I liked them better than GW. And they didn't do the lame thing of making older models unusable. And they have some great looking models though. And the games can be scaled from tiny skirmish to large armies. That said, some of their recent moves as a business have seem questionable, but not GW awful. They are a small company that's still trying to figure things out.
About 15 years ago I played Warmahordes for the first time. After that I never went back to Warhammer. It's like spending your life playing monopoly and then discovering all the good boardgames out there. The only GW product I play is Warhammer Underworlds now.
What? Bolt Action is incredibly swingy and random, and very easy to break. Its a good game but calling the rules good is really not accurate at all imo.
Two suggestions, one of my favorite games systems, actually my favorite, mostly developed by Rick Priestly the original inventor of Warhammer 40k is WARLORD GAMES!! They have mostly historical from ROME (Hail Caesar) to WW2 (Bolt Action) with Napoleon (Black Powder) and The English Civil Wars 30 Years War and Italian Wars (Pike and Shotte), the American Civil War (Epic Battles), all in between. All based on real history!!! Very well researched and extremely good detail and realism. I am a historian so I tend to love historical more than fantasy/scifi, however WARLORD Games also has a science fiction (Gates of Antares and Stargrave) game and a fantasy game (Warlords of Erehworn and they own Frostgrave now) as well, Warlord Games minis are of excellent quality especially their metal ones, its all based on agnostic set of rules, you can pretty much use any mini for most of their games, and the rulebooks are the nicest ones I have ever seen!!! Loads of colorful pictures, and just screams quality. Warlord Games customer service is the best I have ever dealt with, I bought a cannon off eBay brand new, that was missing its wheels, so I called their one 800 number and a real person answered the phone, did not want my receipt, in fact no questions asked, I told him I was missing the wheels to a cannon I bought off eBay and he said no problem we will go ahead and send you some free of charge. About 3 weeks later (UK To California) I received a brand new set of wheels. Warlord Games is a MUST for this list, in fact I really thought it would get a mention, Instead just the same old game systems.... Warlord minis are way better than Mantic and most of CMON minis..... And Bolt Action is better than Warhammer 40k any day! How is Warlord Games not even mentioned? Oh well no worries, if you are not familiar with it, please check it out!! History is usually far more interesting than fantasy. Trust me, look up the English Civil War and the 30 years War, just read about those wars and you will see History is far more rewarding than fantasy. But I do love Fantasy and Scifi, just not as much as actual history. Warlord Games is evenly priced. Far cheaper than Games Workshop and the majority of the team that created WArhammer 40k and Warhammer fantasy battles are the heads of Warlord Games. They left Game Workshop and created Warlord Games, so When Games Workshop used to be good, well thats why Warlord Games is so good! Its all people from Games Workshop. Anyways the second game I would add is A song of Ice and Fire Miniatures game by CMON. it can be pricey, but the Minis look great, You do not even have to be a game of thrones fan to like it. It is based off the books and not the HBO series. Overall A song of Ice and Fire is a lot of fun to play. If you want a cheap as of now alternative to Warhammer Fantasy, then Runewars Miniatures game is fun and CHEAP!! A two person starter set on Amazon is like $35, if you get two starter sets then you have two armies that are legit in size, Its the same as the Star Wars Legions, same people that make it. Fantasy Flight Games. Last but not least Fantasy Flight Games makes a D&D/Heroquest style Lord of the Rings Game, and the minis for that are really good, (can use the game workshp LOTR minis as well) but its worth checking out. Thanks for reading for those that do!!! Warlord Games is my favorite system and their historical metal minis (along with Gripping Beast Saga and Perry miniatures IMO same as Warlord nowadays) are better than anything Game Workshop has made in 20 years!!!
I second this, I am a massive fan of Warlord and their Products, minis are super customizable and while they do have a lot of metal (which I know is annoying for many) their plastic kits are really great
I've been as disappointed with Bolt Action as I have been with any GW 40K edition. It's a pretty lame game, in my experience. Chain of Command is far better, and works at different scales with various models.
I will wholeheartedly recommend malifaux, its my new favorite minis game. I do love infinity too, but man the rules do make it hard to recommend unconditionally
It’s the best miniature game on the market. I also play AoS, 40K, Frostgrave, Necromunda, and Battletech and can honestly say they don’t hold a candle to Malifaux.
Another company that puts out Halfling minis is Wargames Atlantic. Their box of infantry is more traditional medieval, rather than the steampunk halflings of Mantic. But if you want some cheaper models to bulk out the army, or you're interested in less tech, Wargames Atlantic's box is (at the time of this writing) on sale. Thirty (30) models for $25. That's a good price. I've been tempted to grab one to modify for Turnip28.
I use 20mm (because I started out making Airfix kits 50 years ago). 20mm is very cheap and available and there is more material in the ranges. Games such as bolt action can be played in 20mm scale but these days I make up sets of 'toy soldiers' to give away to less well-off families. The intention is to maintain interest in miniatures among the next generation so the stuff will remain available. I use 54mm (1:32) for 3-7 year olds and 20mm (1:72-1:76ish) for 7 and above. The three main requests are 'world war two', 'knights and knaves' and sci-fi. The second world war is exceptionally well catered for. Knights are a bit more challenging (making a castle is tedious), sci fi is poorly served. I used Dark Dream Studios sci fi troops and 'walkers' with ancients for the civilians and fantasy figures with their medieval weapons cut off for 'aliens' but DDS are hard to find these days so I switched to Airfix 'paratroopers' for the Earth team and Dark Alliance 'stalkers' for 'space pirates'. To give some idea of the cost I spend about £5-$10 for a 1:32 set (40 troops plus scenery) and typically £40 on a 20mm world war two set (100 figures plus six tanks and scenery). Knights are cheaper (no tanks) as are sci fi sets (but you have to make assorted vehicles and space ships yourself).
Great list. Gonna add some other suggestions for anyone interested. Dust 1947 (World War Weird), fun and easy rules, great aesthetic (I prefer it to Konflikt 47) and excellent, pre assembled and primed miniatures. Starbreach (agnostic Sci-fi skirmish) while not a direct spin on 40k, your collection will fit in very nicely for many of the preexisting factions (free core rules). Core Space (Sci-fi narrative) Great narrative play with sharp minis and excellent terrain (Battle Systems). Horizon Wars: Zero Dark (agnostic Sci-fi skirmish) hero focused narrative with solo and coop vs AI play. Battletech... because it's Battletech, and everyone should play. Rich lore (easily rivals 40k in its style and depth) and GIANT Stompy Robots! Heavy Gear Blitz (brand new 3rd edition rules) excellent tactical, combined arms mech focused combat. Also has a rich background with excellent minis in both plastic and the older (IMHO better looking) pewter. And last but not least, old editions of 40k.
Nice additions, thank you! I've been eyeballing Core Space for a while now, but every time I go to buy it something pop ups on Kickstarter that sucks up the money. lol Dust 1947 looks freaking amazing, how the hell have I missed this one until now?
@@scannerbarkly Core Space is a lot of fun. Really looking forward to the new releases as I missed the KS. The minis and terrain, as well as the new rules look to add some extra depth and fun. Dust 1947 is freaking awesome and deserves more love. I think it lost some momentum back in its Tactics and Warfare days (different distributor), but the 1947 take is really a very good and streamlined system. It does have freeform rules, if that's more your style (It is for me) rather than gridded. And lots of the older Warfare and Tactics expansions can be found really cheap. The models and terrain in them are still totally valid and supported in the rules for 1947. Covid really messed with their releases tho. After Cthulu, the aliens were announced and we haven't seen that faction yet passed some artwork.
Definitely in favour of using old versions of the 40k rules, if you're not playing organised tournaments there's nothing stopping you from filling in the gaps with your own house rules. You can hack 8th edition as much as you like as long as you don't publish anything.
I want to second the motion for DUST 1947. It's a great game, easy to learn, fun to play, no arguing about cover, line of sight, ranges, templates and all that other BS that makes games like 40K miserable to play. The setting is great, the models are full of character (and ready to play) and perhaps most importantly, the company is deeply involved in the community and supportive of the players.
The new judge dredd I am the law game is fantastic and really easy to learn. The campaign side to it introduces sentencing gang members which can lead to a mission if you like of the gangs trying to free their comrade. To your judges being arrested for using over used force or killing citizens. And if you like 3D printing as l do there is a load of cyberpunk minis and terrain to build up your Mega City One
Deadzone and Kings of war make some models that are very nice to paint. The downside most of the models are absolutely awful putting together, yes you can get a starter set for like 25 quid but I've genuinely can't stand actually assembling them. One page rules is also great, free rules and miniature agnostic. Small skirmish games up to apocalypse size battles
okay so from seeing how everyone else is going about finding another company/game to support vs how I do it I've come to realize that most people don't really seem to care about the minis, lore, and/or the aesthetic. it seems to just be about rules + mechanics. Personally for me I got into warhammer because I liked the lore and the aesthetic of the universe. I like the tyranids, a Lovecraftian bug swarm species that just consumes everything with everything they make being made out of flesh including their ships, guns, and ammo. Or the Necrons being the ancient race that at their height had the ability to summon black holes anywhere they wanted or even now have the ability to summon shards of literal gods who teleport people/things to before time existed. the rules and mechanics to me are mostly secondary considering I just play with friends so if we think something is dumb we just change it.
I think it's moreso that people care about the practices a company has in terms of how they treat their staff and interact with their community. I think most of the people abandoning GW now are in the same boat as you but they feel uncomfortable supporting their business and now are looking for something else. I don't doubt that a lot of the established players for a lot of games made by companies like Mantic and Warlord moved over because of the rules bloat in 40k/changes in AOS but the current wave of players looking for something new are going to pick a system that lets them use cool models/read entertaining lore while not supporting GW. I can't imagine that things like Turnip28 would be reaching as broad an audience if it didn't have a solid aesthetic attached to it (not that anything is wrong with the rules but a grimdark root-vegetable-based post apocalyptic fantasy wargame grounded in Napoleonic-era aesthetics and ballistics technology would be a hard sell for new players if the conversions on people's Instagram pages didn't look half as cool).
@@casanovafunkenstein5090 yeah I know people are upset at GW and that's why they want another game to play. my point was in how people go about choosing those games. cause it seems like people think game mechanics/systems first then aesthetics/lore second. while I'm the opposite.
I tend to agree, i was deeply interested in the lore and stories of the 40k universe long before i ever bought my first 40k mini. I probably wouldnt have even started playing the games if i didnt enjoy the lore so much.
@@weirdo3116 I think that has a lot to do with the fact that a game's mechanics need to be explained in much more detail as compared to seeing some cool official/fan art or miniatures. Also, comparatively few games have anything approaching the number of stories set in their universe as GW do; so the lore is often not nearly as developed, or known about. Perhaps the people behind TTS and other fan animations will end up doing something to address that but currently it's unclear whether another property will end up capturing the imagination of so many people to the same degree.
For me it's a mix of three things.. -How does it look? -How does it play? -How deep is the lore? You can drown in 40k lore, and it's pretty much the only thing they can control now. Big time. Hence this horrid mess. Now I know how the Emperor felt when Horus betrayed him... -All three generally have to be in place for me to get into a TTgame. I also look into the company a bit as well before I invest cash, but that's another matter. If I were new to 40K and saw all this crap happening, I'd make a U-turn.
Monsterpocalypse is also very good - if you like Kaiju battles! It's comparable to Godtear in scope, albeit a bit more expensive. And you have a wide variety of monsters - two Agendas (Protectors and Destructors) but you can mix and match between half a dozen factions per agenda. The Destructors have Martians, Cthulhu, Planet Eaters (Godzilla style aliens), Morlocks, an evil Megacorp (with mecha versions of other monsters from different factions), Interdimensional Retrotech Russians, Extradimensional Reality Judges, Giant Insects, Zombies and Nuclear Waste Monsters. The Protectors have Godzilla, Space Dragons, Mecha, Ultron-style Giant Ninjas, Ecoterrorists turned monster hunters (they have some of the funniest monsters - a 50-Foot-Woman, a Giant Radioactive Corgi and a Looted Mecha) Elementarists, Animal Mutants, Giant Apes and Sea Monsters.
A problem I have with many, if not most of the GW alternatives is that they aren't army games. I don't mind a smaller scale game, but some of them play with 3-5 minis ? And that kinda...defeats the point for me? The models are also not customizable in any way in terms of loadouts and to be honest, many of them are of questionable detail-level and quality overall. Some of them seem heavily character based too like Malifaux, and that's yet another issue I personally don't like. It's an army, not a small gang of novel protagonists. I don't mind having them WITHIN an army, contributing great boons and buffs. But they're more like centrepieces rather than the whole thing. I haven't really found anything like this outside of GW yet. so I'm more than happy to hear any suggestion people might have. As for now, I'm resorting to simply not buying any more GW stuff until they change, and suffering in solitude XD
Sci fi? Star wars Legion, Gates of Antares by Warlord games and Warpath by Mantic are all a similar scale to 40k. Also One Page Rules does a 40k style game called something like Grimdark Future.
Kings of War is probably the biggest alternative battle game. It's basically model agnostic WHFB with incredibly refined and intuitive rules that can just be played with just cardboard movement trays if you really want. There's also Oathmark, from the Frostgrave guys, which has more in-depth but equally intuitive rules as well as really great value minis (same with KoW and Mantic in general).
Warmaster is going through quite a boom now, GW abandoned the project some time ago. There are updated rules now (Warmaster Revolutions) and a live community. If you don't mind 10mm minis used for large scale battles in the Oldhammer universe, there are lots of new stls lying around, most with actually even better models than the original. The game is also pretty well balanced so you can pick nearly any of the 20 armies and be good at it, with no fear of GW messing with it through nerfs etc. Rules are free and most of you already know the lore anyway :)
Or in some cases. Figures you like in the same scale as the game you wanna play with the same aesthetic but you like the figures more? Most communities are willing to let you proxy. Want to avoid confusion? Write on the base rim!
They won’t stop 3D printers and they won’t stop unsanctioned play. What will happen on the tabletop will be what has happened with UA-cam content. Independent creators will be so much superior to licensed content that licensed content takes a back seat. The best thing GW could do is embrace the creativity of the fanbase, not suppress it. If they just stopped sucking it would go a long ways.
Not to try and sound like a fanboy or shill, but there is no equivalent to GW or Warhammer. The sheer scale of some models and top quality of all (newer) models is not something you will find anywhere else outside of 3D printing. The universe and history of 40k itself is almost impossible to match in terms of scale and content with plenty of good stories and characters.
Just played One Page for the first time, and I would love to see my friends switch over from 40k. I'm glad to see so many people looking for alternatives to 40k. I love Monsterpocalpyse, but that's really niche.
I got introduced to it via Wylocks Armoury (the terrain crafting channel). It looks really interesting but I don't find him super engaging hosting games (but he is doing terrain). But to be fair I find most battle report channels boring. Liking Winters SEO and the way he does it more with a hint of sports commentator in it. So basically, if you happen to know any really good battle reports of it I'd love to know.
Big fan of Wild West Exodus, But I'll add "This is Not a Test" to the list which is another model agnostic game. It's akin to Necromunda where you build a crew and they gain experience etc. But in a post Apocalyptic world.
Infinity and Marvel Crisis protocol are fun to play, small skirmish scale instead of full army stuff you need for GW games. Although MCP can be pretty expansiv...but there are ways around that.
I was wondering, I own heroclix and they're available dirt cheap locally(scene where I'm at is basically dead at this point) do they line up in scale with MCP?
Can’t recommend Frostgrave enough for that ‘get the guys round all day and work through some beers whilst playing a relaxing game’ feel. It’s casual, yes, but the older I get the more tired I am of overly complex mini games. Malifaux to me is the polar opposite, requires a lot of thought and rule knowledge, but is still played by my group. Funnily enough I’m personally just getting in to 40K having never played it before - enjoying it so far - forgive me but I love the minis and lore.
@@scannerbarkly here is the link ;) instagram.com/wk83/ my main project for 2021 is waaaghvegas which will consist of custom orks, regular GW models and alot of kitbash. and atm im painting a battleready ultra squad
For me, the warhammer miniatures from a aesthetic level are just unrivaled. I have a lot of friends in Battletech, but damn, I just find their miniatures frankly, lacking detail and ugly. Its a big deal because I play the game mostly for the customization and kitbashing aspects. Maybe in the future one of these secondary games will up their artistic design, but at the moment I just find it too big of a drop in miniature quality for most other games. Also, finding warhammer players is easy, you branch off to these lesser known games and you often can't even find someone in your area who plays it.
For these lesser known systems it is easy to yourself collect more than one faction cheaply. And thus it's easier at local stores to get people to try it. But yeah GW is the standard. Still you also can't draw in a lot of people into the hobby due to the enormous entry fees it has.
The one thing GW have got better at over the years is minis. They make some incredible minis today and most other games minis look closer to what GW was putting out 25 years ago which is off-putting for many, myself included. I think some of these other companies are making higher quality minis with every attempt though and they will start to gain ground because of that. I like stuff like One Page Rules since basically anyone with some minis can learn it fast and you can just play without putting up with GW's ludicrous and bloated rules that get rewritten every 5 minutes so they can sell you more books/minis.
I'm 100% a games workshop fan. I've been in it since the RTB01 rogue trader days to now. The company goes through these phases. And I walk away every time. Come back later. Even with how the miniature line goes. I'll walk away. I was already out the door the second every primaris release looked like the knights templar or a roman army general. Gone. I don't play 40k rules, it's too complicated and involved. I use one page rules if I am having a game and it keeps things ADHD level quick and enjoyable. So, I'll keep my eye on ebay and and eye on new releases, but otherwise I have 6 squads of beaky marines a land raider a jet bike and most of the early release rogue trader marines to paint up for a crimson fist display. Should be done by the time games workshop sort out thier heads.
The problem this time around is that the situation with the higher-ups is a lot different. A lot of those previous cycles happened while 40k was still a fully private company. They're publicly traded now, and their majority shareholder is BlackRock Investments - a company known for destroying pretty much anything they touch. It's an unrecoverable death spiral this time.
I don't play, but I paint & collect minis, now with all these awesome plastic boxed sets seems that a new Golden Age has started, I hope that the voices about Infinity's plastic minis'sets are real
Awesome video! Here's three good miniatures games: SAGA - Medieval, Dark Ages, Antiquity battles with medium number of minis. Plays more like a cool Hollywood battle than a stiff simulation, has some very fun mechanics using a "Battle Board" for each faction/army with special moves and abilities you can use during play. Oathmark - for your rank and file fantasy battles with a more classical feel (Humans, Elves, Orcs and Dwarves) if Mantic's Kings of War feels a little to quick and slick for you. Has its own miniature range, but is mini agnostic. Sludge - Indie game where you play battles similar to those in Nausicaa of the Valley of Winds. Miniatures are plastic historicals kitbashed together to have knights and guns in a very cool mix. The rules are quite innovative and play smoothly. Here's some minature manufacturers that do amazing stuff: Perry Miniatures - the two brothers who did the old Bretonnians are now making cheap but beautiful plastic sets for Medieval and Napoleonic wars with a spattering of colonials and American Civil War. Gripping Beast - All sorts of barbarians from the deepest Dark Ages, Romans, Persians and Greeks, oh my. Extensive range of plastic sets and pewter blisters. Fireforge Games - Has a good range of fantasy, medieval and dark age plastics. Great for those og you who want to get some Game of Thrones vibes going. Wargames Atlantic - These guys have very nice science fiction sets in plastic that can be used as proxies for Grandma Wendy like games, some coll fantasy sets and World War 1 historicals for true Shovel Enthuiasts.
Imho the main issue is finding players. You can always play wh40k, you will probably have a tougher time finding at least someone to play anything else
yeah at no point in my life could I justify the ridiculous prices of games workshop minis, so never got into anything warhammer themed, if they'd quit with the ever present money grab they would be making far more money
Last money I spent on a GW product was to lay my hands on a copy of the white box edition of Warhammer on eBay, for 99p, a couple of years ago. Being from the Cretaceous period I did use the rules for role play at the time of their release but didn't own s copy. I love a loose, narrative - based solo dungeon crawl and the very simple rules encourage that approach rather than constrain it. 10/15mm is a very affordable scale too, allowing easy repurposing of models from other scales.
Giving A Song of Ice and Fire a chance with a friend. Worst is that I rebase them for AoS & I've got the start of a Free Cities army. My understanding of the game is that there are a lot of models but the game plays more like a skirmish - with the cards & your commanders changing how your army functions.
I find it fun. Ive been playing Ice and Fire for awhile now, it is not my favorite miniatures game, but I am enjoying it. I have built two major armies (Targaryen and Stanis Baratheon) but also have a decent Stark army. I have only played those factions, so far tho, the one major problem I can see is balance. The game has some balancing issues, like some units so OP that they can take over any game, like the Bolton Flayed Men or the Umber Berserkers, but still I am really enjoying it. I would personally recommend A Song of Ice and fire!! Over Mantic and even a few others on his list!
I started collecting, painting and gaming w40k 22 years ago. I can say without any doubt that GW never cared about the community, it's simply a fact. They are the creators of the product, but the ones Who made of it an amazing hobby it's us. Anyway, as owner of the product, GW is on its right to manage and make whatever changes they want. As consumers, we are the ones to choose where to spend our money in.
it's because GW offerings have a few things other games do not. First, they advertise a lot, both directly and through spinoffs (video games, books...) Second, they are pretty much the ONLY ones with their own stores instead of relying on generalist tabletop game stores. That also makes it far easier to find people to play the game with that aren't just your one friend you got into the game. Third, they have by far the most active fandom. Though they are trying to kill that nowadays...
There is also the fact that the influencer sphere is stuck in a feedback loop with Games Workshop. GW content gets the most views, so they make more GW content. Games Workshop sends out the most stuff, so they make more Games Workshop content, etc. GW are extremely good at the marketing side, and always have been. It's akin to the UFC and MMA, so many people Games Workshop IS the hobby.
started playing malifaux once stores opened up, great system, the playerbase (at least in my area) are super friendly, and the game's relatively balanced overall, you can really fly by "rule of cool" and not worry too much about being "weak or OP"
Easily Malifaux as a game for me. The primary reason is that the company Wyrd seems to make a huge effort. Print on Demand errata cards, globally accessible LE sales, bi-annual rules and balance updates and heavy engagement with the wider community. Been playing war games for decades and this company has the best attitude I've experienced.
My votes to towards.... Flames of war Bolt action Turnip28 5 parses from home Onepagerules(all of them) And kings of war Though I do want to get into Carnevale at some point (not that the funds are spare right now)...
I would also mention Carnevale, by TT Combat. Skirmish game with very cinematic combat and incredible lore. Think alternative history Venice in the 18th century, but with Cthulhu, vampires, superheroes, etc.
Nice video. I’ve become completely jaded on GW. They still make some of the best models in the industry, but I can’t be a part of the constant rules creep, instantaneous FAQs that invalidate books and models, and hiding new models in big sets, just to name a few. So I’ve taken to A Song of Ice and Fire and Warlord Games. Far cheaper to buy in and play, probably better rules systems and definitely less toxic people in the community.
Most of these games, aside from Star Wars-licenses, wind up unsupported. I like the idea of GW getting some competition, but as an oldbeard who remembers getting excited for, evangelizing and then getting burned by Target Games' Chronopia, I'm hesitant. Warmachine and Hordes, too (pretty much dead compared to where they were 5 years ago). VOR, Warlord, Crucible, etc.....game graveyards are filled with excellent games that left gamers with hordes of worthless plastic and pewter once the companies went belly up.
Yeah well, that's the same with GW, you have a army old Space Marine? They are crap and their rules are garbage, even worst if you have a army for Fantasy, at least you can play with old SMs
@@11AleZZ My Crusade army is actually all Firstborn Blood Angels. Death Company and Vanguard Vets with jump packs are terrifying. Once they got 2 wounds they became much more usable.
@@11AleZZ Of that I have no doubt. I'm not a competitive tournament player. That doesn't seem very fun. Anyway, GW routinely puts out new models that beat the old ones. That wasn't my point. My point was that GW is still around and their games are still in print. You can at least find players for the games. Unlike, say, Chronopia.(Yes, yes, I know Fantasy is no more. I miss Fantasy. You at least had an avenue to use your old models. You can still use them in Cities or counts-as. There's also The Old World coming out).
infinity has been up for more than15 years with 4 editions of rules set, also has a decent organized tournament scene, the rules are pretty solid and the game is so varied that you always have room for improvement, you also don't need that many models to play.
Monsterpocalypse is a weird niche but is super fun! Very few models to paint to be table ready, all the models are in 1 of the two mega-factions so you can mix and match your army lists really easily, and the game is on the cheaper side. Plus you get to do dumb stuff like playing as a parody of mecha godzilla suplexing a power ranger into a sky scraper.
Great video. I still like metal miniatures ( must be because they all were when I started around 1979/80. I have played a few of these games, Gaslands, Wild West Exodus. I am playing Zombicide tomorrow for the firts time. Malifaux looks awesome, the models look fantastic. We played alot of different games way back ( Ad+d, Tunnels and Trolls (Ace game) Judge Dredd and Lovecraft stuff) so Malifaux is on the horizon I think...
Thanks for putting this video together. Grimdark Future for the win for me. I've played about 15 games and can't see myself going backwards to GW's bloated 4OK rules
Sorry to ask, but what those Infinity minis are? "Putter"? ;] This is serious question not a troll, my english sucks, I just don't understand the word. Do Not Be Offended (If Applicable;p)! Cool list. I will look more for that stuff. I became 40k fan in 2nd edition, after years of fun with it I had to do long break, and then jumped back into hobby. What GW is, everybody always knew, but some time ago my nerves snapped, i scream stupid shit online, and enough is enough. Always wanted to try some skirmish game, with more complex rules, giving me opportunities to build cool terrain, and develop my own way of play, of having fun. I feel skirmishes fit better into that and while originally I was contemplating Necromunda, I don't want to enter to this house of cards, cause I see it's already in fire:). Thanks for your tips.
The biggest problem with Infinity, and ultimately it looks like the only problem from where I'm standing because they look absolutely gorgeous, is that the models are _hideously_ expensive.
Another one worth recommending is 'Reign in Hell' a Skirmish Game by Snarling Badger Studios. Openended Rulewise. With a campaign system. And upcoming some free solo content beyond the solo scenario already in the rulebook. Basically varying warbands of demons in hell that fight each other for dominion after the established order gave way. Warbands are roughly 8 minis at the start including your boss and a special 'champion' so to speak. It's openended base-wise (square or round) and has some interesting ideas/mechanics. Only turnoff for some people is that you need to invest into having enough D12's. That's about it. It also is played on a limited surface when going 1 vs 1. So overall investments and space needed are limited. Mantic and Reaper Miniatures have some very good and affordable offerings for this system. Especially Vanguards starter sets are excellent to quickly have a warband.
I'm trying to find an alternative to 40k, but there doesn't seem to really be any alternatives with a close enough feel. Most of the sci-fi stuff that's out there sticks to more of the clean lines of traditional sci-fi, or mixes in cyberpunk elements. And the epic fantasy "swords and sorcery" TTWGs out there are heavily rooted in that without any other influences. There's really nothing with a gritty gothic dark sci-fi feel to it that combines a balanced mix of science-fiction and epic fantasy. I guess I could use what I already have with Stargrave or One Page Grimdark Future but that limits my ability to expand my army due to still having to rely on GW for minis (I've got 500pts of Custodes, fully painted, and another 500pts of Sororitas, some assembled with the rest still in boxes, plus a ton of older stuff in storage that probably didn't survive a move due to idiots handling them) since I don't have a resin printer at the moment (I'm planning on getting an Eligoo Saturn but money's tight right now), my FDM printer is tuned for functional prints rather than detail, and Shapeways makes Games Workshop prices look reasonable. Warmachine does look like it comes close-ish to what I'm looking for but it's still not quite there, and on top of that there are other issues with that game (Privateer Press being in a pissing contest with Games Workshop, and Warmachine's playerbase effectively being a massive refugee camp of old-school 40k players) that push me away. Plus, any fanbase that acts like the fucking Westboro Baptist Church whenever someone says that they're not entirely sold on it needs to go out and touch some grass. There is Horus Heresy for anyone who doesn't mind GW as a company but is tired of GW's constant retooling of 40k, but I'm staying clear of it for the same reason why I'm looking for a 40k alternative - because GW is shit, and the reason they're shit is because they're owned by fucking BlackRock Investments so there is NO saving them. For all intents and purposes, consider GW to have fully embraced Chaos, and the only redemption for them is death.
If you like fantasy skirmish games, give Arcworlde by Warploque Minis a look. Great game, loads of fun, quirky hand sculpted minis and scalable from just a handful of minis to however much you and your opponent(s) want to field.
Hello. I have recently met "Punkapocalyptic" of Bad Roll Games. A miniature-agnostic post-apocalyptic game with all the rules downloadable in PDF. But it has a fantastic range of miniatures in sale and a very rich lore.
I've been playing wargames since the 80s and these days there are so many great games out there. 40k is just tired and rehashed every 2 years to keep the core players spending on it.
If you're looking for a source of models, Wargames Atlantic is sublime. Unlike many other smaller miniatures companies, they put out plastic sprues, meaning their boxes give you a lot of models (and a lot of customization options for those models) for cheap. I'm talking historical miniatures cheap, which is fair because WA produce their fair share of historicals, along with fantasy and SF models. Your typical box from WA costs $35, with discounts when bought in bulk and free international shipping for orders over $50. You can expect anywhere between 20 to 40 models per box, depending on how many customization options it has. Those that give options give a lot of them, with multiple styles of weapons and heads. Some boxes have options that radically change the _genre_ of mini, such as the giant spiders box that can be built as Sci Fi cyborg spiders. Or the Lizard Men box that can make spear-users, rifle-lizards, or gas-mask wearing carbine wielders. Their Death Fields line is particularly known for producing a series of boxes that work very well as alt-Imperial Guard. Allowing one to replicate Vostroyans, Steel Legion/Kriegsmen, Squats, Penal Legion, and Cadians/Planetary Defense Forces. They all have Plasma guns as one of the special weapons options, and most have additional weapons like grenade launchers or flamethrowers. Between these and various historical miniatures boxes they put out - like Afghan Tribesmen and WWI German soldiers - it's very easy to fit most archetypes found in 40K's normal human soldiers. They've also got a box for heavy weapons, so it's not entirely infantry. Wargames Atlantic also works with certain creators to produce models, such as their revival of Mark Mondragon's Iron-Core line. This one is on its second box, and presumably will be expanded further in the future. The company communicates very well with its customers, too. They post regular updates, showing preview images, asking for feedback on WIP 3D renders of models, and doing polls asking what models people want to see or how many models people would prefer on a sprue. They've even put a page on their site tracking the arrival times of boxes in their warehouses, so you know exactly when various upcoming products will come into stock. In this way, they're exactly the opposite of Games Workshop, which does everything in its power to avoid communicating, honestly or no, with the customers. I think my biggest gripe with WA is that they produce so many great products, I don't know what to buy. Which is a good problem to have, all things considered. Where I'm leaning right now is grabbing a box of Afghan Tribesmen, along with the Afghan Cavalry box when that comes out, so I can create an army that could just about fit into either fantasy or SF. But I've had really strong ideas for a number of boxes they put out.
Battletech is a bit of an adjustment from GW, in part because terrain is not necessary and the units are not WYSIWYG - part of the appeal for me. Another one I'm a bit surprised got overlooked is Fallout Wasteland Warfare from Modiphius. Excellent skirmish game set in the Fallout setting with lots of content released covering a variety of the settings we've seen in the video games. The starter box will only set you back around $50 and comes with everything you need apart from terrain and all the starter minis come pre-assembled, making it very approachable for someone new to tabletop skirmish games. Expansion content minis are some assembly required, but usually not more than 3-4 pieces per figure.
I vote for BattleTech, the only tabletop mini game I ever played. Another one I like, but not played is Full Thrust. This is space battleships of all kinds. Lastly, One Page Rules seems pretty fun, and you can re-use your old Warhammer models.
If you're going to mention Legion and Infiniti, you should give a mention to X-Wing. On a per-model-required cost analysis, it's the lowest cost of entry and the lowest cost to keep playing, shortest game duration, etc.
Id highly recommend Marvel Crisis Protocol, its core box is a bit pricey at £100 but its easy to get hooked on its simple, but fun gameplay style. The main reason i like it is because you only paint the one character and they are playable, plus, you could go crazy adding stuff to the bases since it uses the base for LOS.
Are there other popular army-sized games besides Mantic's offerings? I prefer the spectacle of larger games to smaller skirmish games, but Mantic minis don't look as good as GW, imo
From the Battletech Fandom: we welcome all newcomers. Proxy in your 40K models if you want to, it doesn't take a lot more than a sheet of paper and a pen to play!
I actually really went back and forth about putting Battletech on this list, but it's been really hard to get those boxed sets over here and I wanted to limited how many systems I had on here without direct experience. It's been about 20 years since I played BT. lol
@@scannerbarkly 3D printers and STL files are quite easy to find, Ral Partha Europe sells old sculpts while Ironwind Metals sells more recent ones, PDFs are available, but yeah I get your point.
Hell, I'll get my first real box set some time in the next month or so from the kickstarter about 5 years ago.
(Probably worth mentioning I live in the UK)
@@cptncutleg I just purchased one of the metal starter sets from Ironwind. lol Thanks so much for the info!
@@scannerbarkly You're welcome!
Ral Partha Europe sells two Mechwarrior 3 tie-in packs with 4 Mechs in for £30~ each, which is where I got started.
That being said, I actually started playing with a few printouts, some dice and a pen, marking positions and facing by drawing on the map itself!
I've now about 80 models, with 20 Mechs and the rest being foot and jump infantry and tanks, a VTOL in the wings waiting to be put together, and a ton of Epic 40K Rhinos as APCs
Wait, you have Primaris? Then you have Peregrine Mechs. You have Reivers? Then you have Valiants. Wait, you have Kastellan robots? You mean, Pillagers? Are they Crisis suits, or you mean Grasshoppers? And so on and so forth. xD
+1 for One Page Rules, it’s worth stressing that their rulesets are designed to accommodate all of your existing 40k and AoS minis so there’s no need to buy their minis. They do customised rulesets for alternatives to Kill Team, Necromunda and Fantasy Battle as well as their main 40k and AoS replacements all of which can be downloaded for free,
tried the one page rules and not my cup of tea
main problem for me is, those rules are what the originals wanted to be (if GW ever would write good, simple rules), but they are also very similar in gameplay and more or less all the things I doin't like are still there
so if you really love and enjoy the current GW rules, OPR is the perfect place to look at but if you have your problems with the rules you might be better off with something else
I'd settle for One Book Rules
:-D
Also, they also provide a Points Calculator if you join their Patreon just in case you have some models that aren't available on the standard army books, *and* they support other miniature lines, like the Forge Fathers from Mantic (basically space dwarves).
And, if that's not enough, the game is so simple it is so easy to modify and use straight up use rules from the 40k rulesets, If the missions provided in the full rules are not enough.
how are their minis though? and lore to a lesser extent.
You know what would be awesome?
A titanfall themed miniatures game
I would love this kinda Necromunda style... stealing parts off IMC/Ares/Apex post battles and sellotaping it to my mechs... As well as dodgy ai that have their own characteristics/feelings after a battle. Would be so much fun IMO
One of the other small scale games Osprey makes is Gamma Wolves, a Mecha themed Post-Apocalyptic skirmish game.
Form my understanding you can do that with one page rules
Monsterpocalpyse might be your taste
Well, there exists a certain well-established sci-fi franchise in the world of Tabletop Miniatures Wargaming, named BattleTech / MechWarrior. :-)
The setting is fairly similar.
Thanks for the kind words! Gaslands was my first published game, and have it be described as a cult classic is just insane to me. I’m so happy people get so much enjoyment out of mashing their toy cars together. I certainly do! Cheers dude!
Gaslands saved my gaming career!
I was deep in 40K, and then 6th edition ruined my Nid army, and 7th drove me away hard. I also had £200 of beautiful Raging Heroes figures on my shelf and I was scared to start painting them as my lack of talent would never do them justice!
I didn't paint of game for a year.
Then I stumbled across Gaslands, and have now taught dozens of friends to play!
I pledged to never convert or paint my cars: just Hot Wheels as they come; never research lists or tactics online. Never learn from my mistakes! And suddenly I was loving gaming again.
Such a great, simple system, so exciting to play, and so accessible. I have taught 6yr olds to play!
I love Gaslands, no game I've tried comes close for laugh out loud fun. I do really enjoy modding Hotwheels cars too, I've always enjoyed scratchbuilding stuff more than just painting according to strict system rules or historical accuracy. Thanks for making it.
I'd be totally down for other systems, however, only 40k is really played in my area
My vote is for the Mantic line. Both the sci-fi and rank/flank fantasy game. Great models and good prices and funny founders.
For mass fantasy battles, the rank & flank game ‘Oathmark: Battles of the Lost Age’ is a really great game!!
I wouldn't say that I'm boycotting Games Workshop so much as I found out about these other games, discovered I like them better and I'm just going to play them from now on.
For those who are sick of 40K and/or GW but looking for a way to use all the minis you already have, I would recommend Grimdark Future. The basic rules are free (including faction lists) and the deluxe version is only five bucks on Wargames Vault.
It's not just "miniatures agnostic" - you can basically use the armies you've already got as basically the same kind of army they were, because there are analogues for just about all of them.
It's 40K without the expense, abuse, or baggage. And it's super simple to learn and play.
SW Legion is still a lot cheaper than buying things new for 40k btw. The rules are free online, there’s no codexes and most the expansions are $30/25 where GW a new box of 10 space marines costs $70 half the price for a single complete unit and it SW Legion you need less units to have a full army
Mantic games is not the only company with former GW crew, Warlord Games has THE creator of 40k (who created Beyond the gates of Antares for the said corp)
About Infinity: First, they are introducing Plastic models (for the moment, for big models) SioCast style, it's been announced a few weeks ago and there are examples in the hands of several people who made videos. Also, only ONE model has assembly instruction (and those are in their webpage). On the other hand, the rulebooks are free, and the army maker allows to make lists easily and print those for fast use (plus there's an Android app).
Second: Operation boxes are 2 player starters, with "tutorial-level" rules and a narrative escalation series of games. Those boxes are paired with a "Beyond" box, come with enough scenery to assemble half of a full table, and after a year the Operations & Beyond boxes are "retired", into two "Army Box" (one per faction, but no scenery nor rules included).
Third: You won't stop at the 20 models you could deem enough to play anything. Trust me, you will keep buying, or leave, there is no middle ground.
Fourth: there is an RPG by Modiphius (crappy engine from my perspective) full of officially endorsed lore (better written and more coherent than the company's fluff books in general).
The bad part is that not all people bothers to truly read the rulebooks, so sometimes it seems like you are answerig the same questions day after day, and others the talks devolve in a sorta live Lawyer's movie. Be advised: ALL the abilities introduced in N4 interact heavily with each other, and the d20-based Blackjack engine is one of the most random I've ever seen.
I stopped playing 40k in like 2011 due to the models becoming untenable to me due to size & cost AUS price gouging is real.
Found Infinity and Bolt Action we're both accessible to me in the club and haven't stopped playing either since both scratch completely different itch with the models and rules. Plus games sizes and time to complete a game.
I recommend looking into both neither killed 40k for me but both replaced it effectively all the way to 8th Ed and 9th looks to add nothing to make want to invest in GW again.
Been around the hobby since the mid 90s GW has done more damage to it's own business then it has good.
They really do have these phases where they go out of their way to really hurt their own credibility. It's always one step forward and two steps back with them, as a company.
Funny how when I mentioned their shady short-term schemes a few years back, fanboys shouted me down with "But this is the _NEW_ GW!" ... meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
Got that monkey off my back about a year ago and haven't looked back.
And yet it remains the industry leader? "Two men say they're Jesus, one of them must be wrong."
@@danepatterson8107 They're the leader because their fanboys will take the treatment and ask for more. They're also the leaders in leaving money on the table - underprinting releases and an absolute disregard for market study.
As I've pointed out before, popularity is not a barometer for quality. Often the opposite as a popular thing must by definition cater to a lower denominator.
curious, why is warmachine/hordes not included here? The minis have GW like prices its right.. but the game itself looks like it really allows for some creative lists, rules are easy to find online for both units and the game itself. Hell, I can already start to ponder army lists without ever having purchased a thing, thats how available information is.
Really the biggest think holding me back (beyond my own painting skills) is that here in france I'm worried I may not find other players or local stores selling the minis (sure can get deliveres, but if no store sells that stuff it drops the likelyhood I'd ever find someone to play with a lot)
The only reason it's not on the list is is that I have no personal experience with the game systems, and unlike The Drowned Earth I had not done any research or did not intend on purchasing it myself over the coming months. It would have just felt weird to tell other people they should think about playing a game that I myself probably won't be jumping into for another 12-18 months at the earliest. Hope that makes sense.
@@scannerbarkly It does, no worries :p Hell, I bet many think the same thing as I do only towards battletech :p
@@scannerbarkly I've been playing Warmachine and Hordes with a few first gen starter boxes and some additional Jacks/Warbeasts and some small units. The game is incredibly fun! And while the models are expensive, you don't need as many for actually fun skirmishes. Also, Privateer Press not having an iron grip over the community is a big plus. I highly recommend checking out those systems!
Great list. Gonna add Warmachine/Hordes by Privateer Press while I'm here. Been playing it for years now, and I will honestly say it plays better than 40k in almost all ways - plus the lore is not bad at all. If you like steampunk/hextech/magic/mechs/giant beasts and more, than Warmachine/Hordes is for you!
I heard there is a certain disdain about them in tabletop community because of the fuckups they had earlier in their history. From your point of view how are they faring now, have they recovered from that?
I kinda want to get some of their models (the retribution of scyrah really hits the space elves vibe that I like) but not sure because of the stuff which I described higher
I want to add Warcaster, the futuristic version of Warmachine by PP too
@@danielmartinezmartinez441 ^This as well actually. Really looking forward to it.
@@bogdanignatovych3042 I'm not sure about "early history" fuckups. I've played all 3 rule versions and I found I liked them better than GW. And they didn't do the lame thing of making older models unusable. And they have some great looking models though. And the games can be scaled from tiny skirmish to large armies.
That said, some of their recent moves as a business have seem questionable, but not GW awful. They are a small company that's still trying to figure things out.
About 15 years ago I played Warmahordes for the first time. After that I never went back to Warhammer. It's like spending your life playing monopoly and then discovering all the good boardgames out there. The only GW product I play is Warhammer Underworlds now.
Bolt Action might be too bland for some but it has probably the best rules system ive ever played and its almost 100% balanced.
I like Gates of Antares which is based on the same system
There's also Konflikt '47 which adds mechs, genetically engineered super soldiers and power armour to the existing Bolt Action rules
Will look into that.
I find that the focus of BA is less the rules, and more the models that you apply them to.
What? Bolt Action is incredibly swingy and random, and very easy to break. Its a good game but calling the rules good is really not accurate at all imo.
Two suggestions, one of my favorite games systems, actually my favorite, mostly developed by Rick Priestly the original inventor of Warhammer 40k is WARLORD GAMES!! They have mostly historical from ROME (Hail Caesar) to WW2 (Bolt Action) with Napoleon (Black Powder) and The English Civil Wars 30 Years War and Italian Wars (Pike and Shotte), the American Civil War (Epic Battles), all in between. All based on real history!!! Very well researched and extremely good detail and realism. I am a historian so I tend to love historical more than fantasy/scifi, however WARLORD Games also has a science fiction (Gates of Antares and Stargrave) game and a fantasy game (Warlords of Erehworn and they own Frostgrave now) as well, Warlord Games minis are of excellent quality especially their metal ones, its all based on agnostic set of rules, you can pretty much use any mini for most of their games, and the rulebooks are the nicest ones I have ever seen!!! Loads of colorful pictures, and just screams quality. Warlord Games customer service is the best I have ever dealt with, I bought a cannon off eBay brand new, that was missing its wheels, so I called their one 800 number and a real person answered the phone, did not want my receipt, in fact no questions asked, I told him I was missing the wheels to a cannon I bought off eBay and he said no problem we will go ahead and send you some free of charge. About 3 weeks later (UK To California) I received a brand new set of wheels. Warlord Games is a MUST for this list, in fact I really thought it would get a mention, Instead just the same old game systems.... Warlord minis are way better than Mantic and most of CMON minis..... And Bolt Action is better than Warhammer 40k any day! How is Warlord Games not even mentioned? Oh well no worries, if you are not familiar with it, please check it out!! History is usually far more interesting than fantasy. Trust me, look up the English Civil War and the 30 years War, just read about those wars and you will see History is far more rewarding than fantasy. But I do love Fantasy and Scifi, just not as much as actual history. Warlord Games is evenly priced. Far cheaper than Games Workshop and the majority of the team that created WArhammer 40k and Warhammer fantasy battles are the heads of Warlord Games. They left Game Workshop and created Warlord Games, so When Games Workshop used to be good, well thats why Warlord Games is so good! Its all people from Games Workshop.
Anyways the second game I would add is A song of Ice and Fire Miniatures game by CMON. it can be pricey, but the Minis look great, You do not even have to be a game of thrones fan to like it. It is based off the books and not the HBO series. Overall A song of Ice and Fire is a lot of fun to play. If you want a cheap as of now alternative to Warhammer Fantasy, then Runewars Miniatures game is fun and CHEAP!! A two person starter set on Amazon is like $35, if you get two starter sets then you have two armies that are legit in size, Its the same as the Star Wars Legions, same people that make it. Fantasy Flight Games. Last but not least Fantasy Flight Games makes a D&D/Heroquest style Lord of the Rings Game, and the minis for that are really good, (can use the game workshp LOTR minis as well) but its worth checking out. Thanks for reading for those that do!!! Warlord Games is my favorite system and their historical metal minis (along with Gripping Beast Saga and Perry miniatures IMO same as Warlord nowadays) are better than anything Game Workshop has made in 20 years!!!
I second this, I am a massive fan of Warlord and their Products, minis are super customizable and while they do have a lot of metal (which I know is annoying for many) their plastic kits are really great
Warlord is run by a lot of the old GW guys who left back in the mid-00s. That’s why they are good.
I've been as disappointed with Bolt Action as I have been with any GW 40K edition. It's a pretty lame game, in my experience. Chain of Command is far better, and works at different scales with various models.
I will wholeheartedly recommend malifaux, its my new favorite minis game. I do love infinity too, but man the rules do make it hard to recommend unconditionally
It’s the best miniature game on the market. I also play AoS, 40K, Frostgrave, Necromunda, and Battletech and can honestly say they don’t hold a candle to Malifaux.
Great video, as at 65 and just getting intae these games. Aye grandwains.
Thanks for all the info.
Mantics halflings are finally what everyone else should be doing!
Another company that puts out Halfling minis is Wargames Atlantic. Their box of infantry is more traditional medieval, rather than the steampunk halflings of Mantic. But if you want some cheaper models to bulk out the army, or you're interested in less tech, Wargames Atlantic's box is (at the time of this writing) on sale. Thirty (30) models for $25. That's a good price. I've been tempted to grab one to modify for Turnip28.
I use 20mm (because I started out making Airfix kits 50 years ago). 20mm is very cheap and available and there is more material in the ranges. Games such as bolt action can be played in 20mm scale but these days I make up sets of 'toy soldiers' to give away to less well-off families. The intention is to maintain interest in miniatures among the next generation so the stuff will remain available. I use 54mm (1:32) for 3-7 year olds and 20mm (1:72-1:76ish) for 7 and above. The three main requests are 'world war two', 'knights and knaves' and sci-fi. The second world war is exceptionally well catered for. Knights are a bit more challenging (making a castle is tedious), sci fi is poorly served. I used Dark Dream Studios sci fi troops and 'walkers' with ancients for the civilians and fantasy figures with their medieval weapons cut off for 'aliens' but DDS are hard to find these days so I switched to Airfix 'paratroopers' for the Earth team and Dark Alliance 'stalkers' for 'space pirates'. To give some idea of the cost I spend about £5-$10 for a 1:32 set (40 troops plus scenery) and typically £40 on a 20mm world war two set (100 figures plus six tanks and scenery). Knights are cheaper (no tanks) as are sci fi sets (but you have to make assorted vehicles and space ships yourself).
Infinity is amazing. There is no game that is more interactive, deep, balanced and cool.
Great list. Gonna add some other suggestions for anyone interested. Dust 1947 (World War Weird), fun and easy rules, great aesthetic (I prefer it to Konflikt 47) and excellent, pre assembled and primed miniatures.
Starbreach (agnostic Sci-fi skirmish) while not a direct spin on 40k, your collection will fit in very nicely for many of the preexisting factions (free core rules).
Core Space (Sci-fi narrative) Great narrative play with sharp minis and excellent terrain (Battle Systems).
Horizon Wars: Zero Dark (agnostic Sci-fi skirmish) hero focused narrative with solo and coop vs AI play.
Battletech... because it's Battletech, and everyone should play. Rich lore (easily rivals 40k in its style and depth) and GIANT Stompy Robots!
Heavy Gear Blitz (brand new 3rd edition rules) excellent tactical, combined arms mech focused combat. Also has a rich background with excellent minis in both plastic and the older (IMHO better looking) pewter.
And last but not least, old editions of 40k.
Nice additions, thank you! I've been eyeballing Core Space for a while now, but every time I go to buy it something pop ups on Kickstarter that sucks up the money. lol Dust 1947 looks freaking amazing, how the hell have I missed this one until now?
@@scannerbarkly Core Space is a lot of fun. Really looking forward to the new releases as I missed the KS. The minis and terrain, as well as the new rules look to add some extra depth and fun.
Dust 1947 is freaking awesome and deserves more love. I think it lost some momentum back in its Tactics and Warfare days (different distributor), but the 1947 take is really a very good and streamlined system. It does have freeform rules, if that's more your style (It is for me) rather than gridded. And lots of the older Warfare and Tactics expansions can be found really cheap. The models and terrain in them are still totally valid and supported in the rules for 1947.
Covid really messed with their releases tho. After Cthulu, the aliens were announced and we haven't seen that faction yet passed some artwork.
Plus points for Dust. Wish I could get more locals playing it (and wish the miniatures were still priced like they were back in the FFG discount days)
Definitely in favour of using old versions of the 40k rules, if you're not playing organised tournaments there's nothing stopping you from filling in the gaps with your own house rules. You can hack 8th edition as much as you like as long as you don't publish anything.
I want to second the motion for DUST 1947. It's a great game, easy to learn, fun to play, no arguing about cover, line of sight, ranges, templates and all that other BS that makes games like 40K miserable to play. The setting is great, the models are full of character (and ready to play) and perhaps most importantly, the company is deeply involved in the community and supportive of the players.
The new judge dredd I am the law game is fantastic and really easy to learn. The campaign side to it introduces sentencing gang members which can lead to a mission if you like of the gangs trying to free their comrade. To your judges being arrested for using over used force or killing citizens. And if you like 3D printing as l do there is a load of cyberpunk minis and terrain to build up your Mega City One
Hey man, can you look into beyond the gates of Antares, it's a great sci-fi game similar to 40K, but it's way cheaper
Its made by Warlord Games, a Much better company than GW imho. Warlord Games is pure quality!
Absolutely, gates of antares is my favourite game.
Good alternatives for 40k aka: Litteraly any other game in the history of games.
I wouldn't exactly rate Russian roulette above 40K.
@@Mr_Bunk you die and therefore dont have to suffer playing 40k.
Also the adrenaline rush is unforgettable.
Deadzone and Kings of war make some models that are very nice to paint. The downside most of the models are absolutely awful putting together, yes you can get a starter set for like 25 quid but I've genuinely can't stand actually assembling them.
One page rules is also great, free rules and miniature agnostic. Small skirmish games up to apocalypse size battles
okay so from seeing how everyone else is going about finding another company/game to support vs how I do it I've come to realize that most people don't really seem to care about the minis, lore, and/or the aesthetic. it seems to just be about rules + mechanics.
Personally for me I got into warhammer because I liked the lore and the aesthetic of the universe. I like the tyranids, a Lovecraftian bug swarm species that just consumes everything with everything they make being made out of flesh including their ships, guns, and ammo. Or the Necrons being the ancient race that at their height had the ability to summon black holes anywhere they wanted or even now have the ability to summon shards of literal gods who teleport people/things to before time existed.
the rules and mechanics to me are mostly secondary considering I just play with friends so if we think something is dumb we just change it.
I think it's moreso that people care about the practices a company has in terms of how they treat their staff and interact with their community.
I think most of the people abandoning GW now are in the same boat as you but they feel uncomfortable supporting their business and now are looking for something else.
I don't doubt that a lot of the established players for a lot of games made by companies like Mantic and Warlord moved over because of the rules bloat in 40k/changes in AOS but the current wave of players looking for something new are going to pick a system that lets them use cool models/read entertaining lore while not supporting GW.
I can't imagine that things like Turnip28 would be reaching as broad an audience if it didn't have a solid aesthetic attached to it (not that anything is wrong with the rules but a grimdark root-vegetable-based post apocalyptic fantasy wargame grounded in Napoleonic-era aesthetics and ballistics technology would be a hard sell for new players if the conversions on people's Instagram pages didn't look half as cool).
@@casanovafunkenstein5090 yeah I know people are upset at GW and that's why they want another game to play. my point was in how people go about choosing those games. cause it seems like people think game mechanics/systems first then aesthetics/lore second. while I'm the opposite.
I tend to agree, i was deeply interested in the lore and stories of the 40k universe long before i ever bought my first 40k mini. I probably wouldnt have even started playing the games if i didnt enjoy the lore so much.
@@weirdo3116 I think that has a lot to do with the fact that a game's mechanics need to be explained in much more detail as compared to seeing some cool official/fan art or miniatures.
Also, comparatively few games have anything approaching the number of stories set in their universe as GW do; so the lore is often not nearly as developed, or known about. Perhaps the people behind TTS and other fan animations will end up doing something to address that but currently it's unclear whether another property will end up capturing the imagination of so many people to the same degree.
For me it's a mix of three things..
-How does it look?
-How does it play?
-How deep is the lore? You can drown in 40k lore, and it's pretty much the only thing they can control now. Big time. Hence this horrid mess. Now I know how the Emperor felt when Horus betrayed him...
-All three generally have to be in place for me to get into a TTgame. I also look into the company a bit as well before I invest cash, but that's another matter. If I were new to 40K and saw all this crap happening, I'd make a U-turn.
3d Printer and PDF files go brrrr....
Monsterpocalypse is also very good - if you like Kaiju battles! It's comparable to Godtear in scope, albeit a bit more expensive. And you have a wide variety of monsters - two Agendas (Protectors and Destructors) but you can mix and match between half a dozen factions per agenda. The Destructors have Martians, Cthulhu, Planet Eaters (Godzilla style aliens), Morlocks, an evil Megacorp (with mecha versions of other monsters from different factions), Interdimensional Retrotech Russians, Extradimensional Reality Judges, Giant Insects, Zombies and Nuclear Waste Monsters. The Protectors have Godzilla, Space Dragons, Mecha, Ultron-style Giant Ninjas, Ecoterrorists turned monster hunters (they have some of the funniest monsters - a 50-Foot-Woman, a Giant Radioactive Corgi and a Looted Mecha) Elementarists, Animal Mutants, Giant Apes and Sea Monsters.
You missed Marvel Crisis Protocol. Excellent game - cinematic, fun, and very casual-friendly.
A problem I have with many, if not most of the GW alternatives is that they aren't army games.
I don't mind a smaller scale game, but some of them play with 3-5 minis ? And that kinda...defeats the point for me?
The models are also not customizable in any way in terms of loadouts and to be honest, many of them are of questionable detail-level and quality overall. Some of them seem heavily character based too like Malifaux, and that's yet another issue I personally don't like. It's an army, not a small gang of novel protagonists. I don't mind having them WITHIN an army, contributing great boons and buffs. But they're more like centrepieces rather than the whole thing.
I haven't really found anything like this outside of GW yet. so I'm more than happy to hear any suggestion people might have.
As for now, I'm resorting to simply not buying any more GW stuff until they change, and suffering in solitude XD
Sci fi? Star wars Legion, Gates of Antares by Warlord games and Warpath by Mantic are all a similar scale to 40k. Also One Page Rules does a 40k style game called something like Grimdark Future.
Kings of War is probably the biggest alternative battle game. It's basically model agnostic WHFB with incredibly refined and intuitive rules that can just be played with just cardboard movement trays if you really want.
There's also Oathmark, from the Frostgrave guys, which has more in-depth but equally intuitive rules as well as really great value minis (same with KoW and Mantic in general).
a hopeful time for other modelmakers and fandoms, truly there is a silver lining
I'm surprised none of Warlord games stuff got a place
Warmaster is going through quite a boom now, GW abandoned the project some time ago. There are updated rules now (Warmaster Revolutions) and a live community. If you don't mind 10mm minis used for large scale battles in the Oldhammer universe, there are lots of new stls lying around, most with actually even better models than the original. The game is also pretty well balanced so you can pick nearly any of the 20 armies and be good at it, with no fear of GW messing with it through nerfs etc. Rules are free and most of you already know the lore anyway :)
Anything touched by GW has the taint of evil forever
@@danepatterson8107 what a stupid opinion
Go for the periods you find interesting rather than "rule/figure franchises", there are loads of figures, models and rules available.
Or in some cases. Figures you like in the same scale as the game you wanna play with the same aesthetic but you like the figures more? Most communities are willing to let you proxy. Want to avoid confusion? Write on the base rim!
Warmachine/Hordes, from Privateer Press. Out of Washington state, USA.
They won’t stop 3D printers and they won’t stop unsanctioned play. What will happen on the tabletop will be what has happened with UA-cam content. Independent creators will be so much superior to licensed content that licensed content takes a back seat. The best thing GW could do is embrace the creativity of the fanbase, not suppress it. If they just stopped sucking it would go a long ways.
Yup One Page Rules for the win 💪🏻
Not to try and sound like a fanboy or shill, but there is no equivalent to GW or Warhammer. The sheer scale of some models and top quality of all (newer) models is not something you will find anywhere else outside of 3D printing. The universe and history of 40k itself is almost impossible to match in terms of scale and content with plenty of good stories and characters.
Good alternative for warhammer fantasy or kings of war is also oathmark :-)
Just played One Page for the first time, and I would love to see my friends switch over from 40k. I'm glad to see so many people looking for alternatives to 40k. I love Monsterpocalpyse, but that's really niche.
I got introduced to it via Wylocks Armoury (the terrain crafting channel). It looks really interesting but I don't find him super engaging hosting games (but he is doing terrain). But to be fair I find most battle report channels boring. Liking Winters SEO and the way he does it more with a hint of sports commentator in it.
So basically, if you happen to know any really good battle reports of it I'd love to know.
Dont forget Oathmark! For fans of old school fantasy its the holy grail
Been playing dead zone with mantic for a while now, its a ton of fun and much simpler in terms of rules
Big fan of Wild West Exodus, But I'll add "This is Not a Test" to the list which is another model agnostic game. It's akin to Necromunda where you build a crew and they gain experience etc. But in a post Apocalyptic world.
Realitys Edge, by the same guy who wrote This Is Not a Test, is a really cool Cyberpunk game too. And a beautiful book by Osprey.
Gotta say, the Egyptian One Page Rules models are FUCKIN GORGEOUS. Love em
Infinity and Marvel Crisis protocol are fun to play, small skirmish scale instead of full army stuff you need for GW games. Although MCP can be pretty expansiv...but there are ways around that.
I was wondering, I own heroclix and they're available dirt cheap locally(scene where I'm at is basically dead at this point) do they line up in scale with MCP?
Can’t recommend Frostgrave enough for that ‘get the guys round all day and work through some beers whilst playing a relaxing game’ feel. It’s casual, yes, but the older I get the more tired I am of overly complex mini games. Malifaux to me is the polar opposite, requires a lot of thought and rule knowledge, but is still played by my group. Funnily enough I’m personally just getting in to 40K having never played it before - enjoying it so far - forgive me but I love the minis and lore.
To me its all about the minis and not so much about the game - i dont have any time to play the games as a comission paintbrush slave :D
Oh nice, if you like, feel free to leave a link to your site/insta here so we can take a look!
@@scannerbarkly here is the link ;) instagram.com/wk83/
my main project for 2021 is waaaghvegas which will consist of custom orks, regular GW models and alot of kitbash. and atm im painting a battleready ultra squad
For me, the warhammer miniatures from a aesthetic level are just unrivaled. I have a lot of friends in Battletech, but damn, I just find their miniatures frankly, lacking detail and ugly. Its a big deal because I play the game mostly for the customization and kitbashing aspects. Maybe in the future one of these secondary games will up their artistic design, but at the moment I just find it too big of a drop in miniature quality for most other games. Also, finding warhammer players is easy, you branch off to these lesser known games and you often can't even find someone in your area who plays it.
For these lesser known systems it is easy to yourself collect more than one faction cheaply. And thus it's easier at local stores to get people to try it. But yeah GW is the standard. Still you also can't draw in a lot of people into the hobby due to the enormous entry fees it has.
The one thing GW have got better at over the years is minis. They make some incredible minis today and most other games minis look closer to what GW was putting out 25 years ago which is off-putting for many, myself included. I think some of these other companies are making higher quality minis with every attempt though and they will start to gain ground because of that. I like stuff like One Page Rules since basically anyone with some minis can learn it fast and you can just play without putting up with GW's ludicrous and bloated rules that get rewritten every 5 minutes so they can sell you more books/minis.
ONE PAGE RULES FOR THE WIN!
Gaslands is a HOOT! Highly recommended!
I'm 100% a games workshop fan. I've been in it since the RTB01 rogue trader days to now.
The company goes through these phases. And I walk away every time.
Come back later.
Even with how the miniature line goes. I'll walk away.
I was already out the door the second every primaris release looked like the knights templar or a roman army general.
Gone.
I don't play 40k rules, it's too complicated and involved. I use one page rules if I am having a game and it keeps things ADHD level quick and enjoyable.
So, I'll keep my eye on ebay and and eye on new releases, but otherwise I have 6 squads of beaky marines a land raider a jet bike and most of the early release rogue trader marines to paint up for a crimson fist display.
Should be done by the time games workshop sort out thier heads.
The problem this time around is that the situation with the higher-ups is a lot different. A lot of those previous cycles happened while 40k was still a fully private company. They're publicly traded now, and their majority shareholder is BlackRock Investments - a company known for destroying pretty much anything they touch. It's an unrecoverable death spiral this time.
I don't play, but I paint & collect minis, now with all these awesome plastic boxed sets seems that a new Golden Age has started, I hope that the voices about Infinity's plastic minis'sets are real
Awesome video! Here's three good miniatures games:
SAGA - Medieval, Dark Ages, Antiquity battles with medium number of minis. Plays more like a cool Hollywood battle than a stiff simulation, has some very fun mechanics using a "Battle Board" for each faction/army with special moves and abilities you can use during play.
Oathmark - for your rank and file fantasy battles with a more classical feel (Humans, Elves, Orcs and Dwarves) if Mantic's Kings of War feels a little to quick and slick for you. Has its own miniature range, but is mini agnostic.
Sludge - Indie game where you play battles similar to those in Nausicaa of the Valley of Winds. Miniatures are plastic historicals kitbashed together to have knights and guns in a very cool mix. The rules are quite innovative and play smoothly.
Here's some minature manufacturers that do amazing stuff:
Perry Miniatures - the two brothers who did the old Bretonnians are now making cheap but beautiful plastic sets for Medieval and Napoleonic wars with a spattering of colonials and American Civil War.
Gripping Beast - All sorts of barbarians from the deepest Dark Ages, Romans, Persians and Greeks, oh my. Extensive range of plastic sets and pewter blisters.
Fireforge Games - Has a good range of fantasy, medieval and dark age plastics. Great for those og you who want to get some Game of Thrones vibes going.
Wargames Atlantic - These guys have very nice science fiction sets in plastic that can be used as proxies for Grandma Wendy like games, some coll fantasy sets and World War 1 historicals for true Shovel Enthuiasts.
I can second SAGA. Love it
Imho the main issue is finding players. You can always play wh40k, you will probably have a tougher time finding at least someone to play anything else
Also another game - Wrath of Kings. It's not an outright recommendation since I never played it, wanted to though
yeah at no point in my life could I justify the ridiculous prices of games workshop minis, so never got into anything warhammer themed, if they'd quit with the ever present money grab they would be making far more money
Last money I spent on a GW product was to lay my hands on a copy of the white box edition of Warhammer on eBay, for 99p, a couple of years ago. Being from the Cretaceous period I did use the rules for role play at the time of their release but didn't own s copy.
I love a loose, narrative - based solo dungeon crawl and the very simple rules encourage that approach rather than constrain it. 10/15mm is a very affordable scale too, allowing easy repurposing of models from other scales.
Giving A Song of Ice and Fire a chance with a friend. Worst is that I rebase them for AoS & I've got the start of a Free Cities army. My understanding of the game is that there are a lot of models but the game plays more like a skirmish - with the cards & your commanders changing how your army functions.
I find it fun. Ive been playing Ice and Fire for awhile now, it is not my favorite miniatures game, but I am enjoying it. I have built two major armies (Targaryen and Stanis Baratheon) but also have a decent Stark army. I have only played those factions, so far tho, the one major problem I can see is balance. The game has some balancing issues, like some units so OP that they can take over any game, like the Bolton Flayed Men or the Umber Berserkers, but still I am really enjoying it. I would personally recommend A Song of Ice and fire!! Over Mantic and even a few others on his list!
Yes get out of GW and send me your stuff!!!
Sadly, they don't sell Space Marines
I missed Battletech and BoltAction on this list.
I started collecting, painting and gaming w40k 22 years ago. I can say without any doubt that GW never cared about the community, it's simply a fact.
They are the creators of the product, but the ones Who made of it an amazing hobby it's us.
Anyway, as owner of the product, GW is on its right to manage and make whatever changes they want.
As consumers, we are the ones to choose where to spend our money in.
Some alternatives. If you look at the vast number of games out there it's amazing that most people don't know anything beyond the GW offerings.
it's because GW offerings have a few things other games do not.
First, they advertise a lot, both directly and through spinoffs (video games, books...)
Second, they are pretty much the ONLY ones with their own stores instead of relying on generalist tabletop game stores. That also makes it far easier to find people to play the game with that aren't just your one friend you got into the game.
Third, they have by far the most active fandom. Though they are trying to kill that nowadays...
There is also the fact that the influencer sphere is stuck in a feedback loop with Games Workshop. GW content gets the most views, so they make more GW content. Games Workshop sends out the most stuff, so they make more Games Workshop content, etc. GW are extremely good at the marketing side, and always have been. It's akin to the UFC and MMA, so many people Games Workshop IS the hobby.
WarMachine and Battletech
I'd recommend Walking Dead: All Out War from Mantic Games. Great Narrative campaign and awesome skirmish game.
The Emperor frowns upon such heresy
"tired" rofl... pissed off!
Relicblade is criminally underrated
I always wanted to dip my toe into it.
Thank you for the information.
started playing malifaux once stores opened up, great system, the playerbase (at least in my area) are super friendly, and the game's relatively balanced overall, you can really fly by "rule of cool" and not worry too much about being "weak or OP"
i might as well make my own game. As long as there are elves i can stan it's good.
Easily Malifaux as a game for me. The primary reason is that the company Wyrd seems to make a huge effort. Print on Demand errata cards, globally accessible LE sales, bi-annual rules and balance updates and heavy engagement with the wider community. Been playing war games for decades and this company has the best attitude I've experienced.
I whole heartedly agree. I play several other games (four GW ones) and they don’t hold a candle to Malifaux.
My votes to towards....
Flames of war
Bolt action
Turnip28
5 parses from home
Onepagerules(all of them)
And kings of war
Though I do want to get into Carnevale at some point (not that the funds are spare right now)...
Stargrunt 2 and full thrust are good
I would also mention Carnevale, by TT Combat. Skirmish game with very cinematic combat and incredible lore. Think alternative history Venice in the 18th century, but with Cthulhu, vampires, superheroes, etc.
Do you know what scale they are?
Nice video. I’ve become completely jaded on GW. They still make some of the best models in the industry, but I can’t be a part of the constant rules creep, instantaneous FAQs that invalidate books and models, and hiding new models in big sets, just to name a few. So I’ve taken to A Song of Ice and Fire and Warlord Games. Far cheaper to buy in and play, probably better rules systems and definitely less toxic people in the community.
Most of these games, aside from Star Wars-licenses, wind up unsupported. I like the idea of GW getting some competition, but as an oldbeard who remembers getting excited for, evangelizing and then getting burned by Target Games' Chronopia, I'm hesitant. Warmachine and Hordes, too (pretty much dead compared to where they were 5 years ago). VOR, Warlord, Crucible, etc.....game graveyards are filled with excellent games that left gamers with hordes of worthless plastic and pewter once the companies went belly up.
Yeah well, that's the same with GW, you have a army old Space Marine? They are crap and their rules are garbage, even worst if you have a army for Fantasy, at least you can play with old SMs
@@11AleZZ My Crusade army is actually all Firstborn Blood Angels. Death Company and Vanguard Vets with jump packs are terrifying. Once they got 2 wounds they became much more usable.
@@wulfbak Crusade is narrative not matched, play in a tournament with that army and you gonna be wiped out in 3 seconds
@@11AleZZ Of that I have no doubt. I'm not a competitive tournament player. That doesn't seem very fun. Anyway, GW routinely puts out new models that beat the old ones. That wasn't my point. My point was that GW is still around and their games are still in print. You can at least find players for the games. Unlike, say, Chronopia.(Yes, yes, I know Fantasy is no more. I miss Fantasy. You at least had an avenue to use your old models. You can still use them in Cities or counts-as. There's also The Old World coming out).
infinity has been up for more than15 years with 4 editions of rules set, also has a decent organized tournament scene, the rules are pretty solid and the game is so varied that you always have room for improvement, you also don't need that many models to play.
Monsterpocalypse is a weird niche but is super fun! Very few models to paint to be table ready, all the models are in 1 of the two mega-factions so you can mix and match your army lists really easily, and the game is on the cheaper side. Plus you get to do dumb stuff like playing as a parody of mecha godzilla suplexing a power ranger into a sky scraper.
Warzone/Mutant Chronicles/Doomtrooper is like the closest thing to WH40k.
Great video. I still like metal miniatures ( must be because they all were when I started around 1979/80. I have played a few of these games, Gaslands, Wild West Exodus. I am playing Zombicide tomorrow for the firts time. Malifaux looks awesome, the models look fantastic. We played alot of different games way back ( Ad+d, Tunnels and Trolls (Ace game) Judge Dredd and Lovecraft stuff) so Malifaux is on the horizon I think...
Thanks for putting this video together. Grimdark Future for the win for me. I've played about 15 games and can't see myself going backwards to GW's bloated 4OK rules
Sorry to ask, but what those Infinity minis are? "Putter"? ;] This is serious question not a troll, my english sucks, I just don't understand the word. Do Not Be Offended (If Applicable;p)! Cool list. I will look more for that stuff. I became 40k fan in 2nd edition, after years of fun with it I had to do long break, and then jumped back into hobby. What GW is, everybody always knew, but some time ago my nerves snapped, i scream stupid shit online, and enough is enough. Always wanted to try some skirmish game, with more complex rules, giving me opportunities to build cool terrain, and develop my own way of play, of having fun. I feel skirmishes fit better into that and while originally I was contemplating Necromunda, I don't want to enter to this house of cards, cause I see it's already in fire:). Thanks for your tips.
The biggest problem with Infinity, and ultimately it looks like the only problem from where I'm standing because they look absolutely gorgeous, is that the models are _hideously_ expensive.
I can wholeheartedly recommend Dropzone commander.
Very fun game, similar scale to Epic 40k, fighting over destructible environment cities.
My bank account didn't need this video. Guess it's time to go shopping, I just looked up the One Page Rules minis and they are gorgeous...
Another one worth recommending is 'Reign in Hell' a Skirmish Game by Snarling Badger Studios. Openended Rulewise. With a campaign system. And upcoming some free solo content beyond the solo scenario already in the rulebook.
Basically varying warbands of demons in hell that fight each other for dominion after the established order gave way. Warbands are roughly 8 minis at the start including your boss and a special 'champion' so to speak. It's openended base-wise (square or round) and has some interesting ideas/mechanics.
Only turnoff for some people is that you need to invest into having enough D12's. That's about it.
It also is played on a limited surface when going 1 vs 1. So overall investments and space needed are limited.
Mantic and Reaper Miniatures have some very good and affordable offerings for this system. Especially Vanguards starter sets are excellent to quickly have a warband.
I'm trying to find an alternative to 40k, but there doesn't seem to really be any alternatives with a close enough feel. Most of the sci-fi stuff that's out there sticks to more of the clean lines of traditional sci-fi, or mixes in cyberpunk elements. And the epic fantasy "swords and sorcery" TTWGs out there are heavily rooted in that without any other influences. There's really nothing with a gritty gothic dark sci-fi feel to it that combines a balanced mix of science-fiction and epic fantasy. I guess I could use what I already have with Stargrave or One Page Grimdark Future but that limits my ability to expand my army due to still having to rely on GW for minis (I've got 500pts of Custodes, fully painted, and another 500pts of Sororitas, some assembled with the rest still in boxes, plus a ton of older stuff in storage that probably didn't survive a move due to idiots handling them) since I don't have a resin printer at the moment (I'm planning on getting an Eligoo Saturn but money's tight right now), my FDM printer is tuned for functional prints rather than detail, and Shapeways makes Games Workshop prices look reasonable.
Warmachine does look like it comes close-ish to what I'm looking for but it's still not quite there, and on top of that there are other issues with that game (Privateer Press being in a pissing contest with Games Workshop, and Warmachine's playerbase effectively being a massive refugee camp of old-school 40k players) that push me away. Plus, any fanbase that acts like the fucking Westboro Baptist Church whenever someone says that they're not entirely sold on it needs to go out and touch some grass.
There is Horus Heresy for anyone who doesn't mind GW as a company but is tired of GW's constant retooling of 40k, but I'm staying clear of it for the same reason why I'm looking for a 40k alternative - because GW is shit, and the reason they're shit is because they're owned by fucking BlackRock Investments so there is NO saving them. For all intents and purposes, consider GW to have fully embraced Chaos, and the only redemption for them is death.
If you like fantasy skirmish games, give Arcworlde by Warploque Minis a look. Great game, loads of fun, quirky hand sculpted minis and scalable from just a handful of minis to however much you and your opponent(s) want to field.
Hello.
I have recently met "Punkapocalyptic" of Bad Roll Games. A miniature-agnostic post-apocalyptic game with all the rules downloadable in PDF.
But it has a fantastic range of miniatures in sale and a very rich lore.
I've been playing wargames since the 80s and these days there are so many great games out there. 40k is just tired and rehashed every 2 years to keep the core players spending on it.
Outstanding recommendations across the board. I play Malifaux and a lot of Mantic's stuff, and have a bit of Godtear as well. Who needs GW anymore?
None of them have the same rich lore.
The lore will always exist. But you can buy other models from some other place.
@@SCHMALLZZZ True
If you're looking for a source of models, Wargames Atlantic is sublime. Unlike many other smaller miniatures companies, they put out plastic sprues, meaning their boxes give you a lot of models (and a lot of customization options for those models) for cheap. I'm talking historical miniatures cheap, which is fair because WA produce their fair share of historicals, along with fantasy and SF models.
Your typical box from WA costs $35, with discounts when bought in bulk and free international shipping for orders over $50. You can expect anywhere between 20 to 40 models per box, depending on how many customization options it has. Those that give options give a lot of them, with multiple styles of weapons and heads. Some boxes have options that radically change the _genre_ of mini, such as the giant spiders box that can be built as Sci Fi cyborg spiders. Or the Lizard Men box that can make spear-users, rifle-lizards, or gas-mask wearing carbine wielders.
Their Death Fields line is particularly known for producing a series of boxes that work very well as alt-Imperial Guard. Allowing one to replicate Vostroyans, Steel Legion/Kriegsmen, Squats, Penal Legion, and Cadians/Planetary Defense Forces. They all have Plasma guns as one of the special weapons options, and most have additional weapons like grenade launchers or flamethrowers. Between these and various historical miniatures boxes they put out - like Afghan Tribesmen and WWI German soldiers - it's very easy to fit most archetypes found in 40K's normal human soldiers. They've also got a box for heavy weapons, so it's not entirely infantry.
Wargames Atlantic also works with certain creators to produce models, such as their revival of Mark Mondragon's Iron-Core line. This one is on its second box, and presumably will be expanded further in the future.
The company communicates very well with its customers, too. They post regular updates, showing preview images, asking for feedback on WIP 3D renders of models, and doing polls asking what models people want to see or how many models people would prefer on a sprue. They've even put a page on their site tracking the arrival times of boxes in their warehouses, so you know exactly when various upcoming products will come into stock. In this way, they're exactly the opposite of Games Workshop, which does everything in its power to avoid communicating, honestly or no, with the customers.
I think my biggest gripe with WA is that they produce so many great products, I don't know what to buy. Which is a good problem to have, all things considered. Where I'm leaning right now is grabbing a box of Afghan Tribesmen, along with the Afghan Cavalry box when that comes out, so I can create an army that could just about fit into either fantasy or SF. But I've had really strong ideas for a number of boxes they put out.
Battletech is a bit of an adjustment from GW, in part because terrain is not necessary and the units are not WYSIWYG - part of the appeal for me. Another one I'm a bit surprised got overlooked is Fallout Wasteland Warfare from Modiphius. Excellent skirmish game set in the Fallout setting with lots of content released covering a variety of the settings we've seen in the video games. The starter box will only set you back around $50 and comes with everything you need apart from terrain and all the starter minis come pre-assembled, making it very approachable for someone new to tabletop skirmish games. Expansion content minis are some assembly required, but usually not more than 3-4 pieces per figure.
I vote for BattleTech, the only tabletop mini game I ever played. Another one I like, but not played is Full Thrust. This is space battleships of all kinds. Lastly, One Page Rules seems pretty fun, and you can re-use your old Warhammer models.
Konflikt 47 by Warlord games/Clockwork Goblin if you like WW2, weird war and big stompy mechs!
If you're going to mention Legion and Infiniti, you should give a mention to X-Wing. On a per-model-required cost analysis, it's the lowest cost of entry and the lowest cost to keep playing, shortest game duration, etc.
Id highly recommend Marvel Crisis Protocol, its core box is a bit pricey at £100 but its easy to get hooked on its simple, but fun gameplay style. The main reason i like it is because you only paint the one character and they are playable, plus, you could go crazy adding stuff to the bases since it uses the base for LOS.
Are there other popular army-sized games besides Mantic's offerings? I prefer the spectacle of larger games to smaller skirmish games, but Mantic minis don't look as good as GW, imo