Thx for the video. Love zoans since they can kill tank AND infantry with their 2 profiles but they don't forgive any mistakes with their 24 range and 4+ armor sensitive to low AP. But they are really huge.
For me the issue with Zoans is that they're short ranged AND slow, 24" range and 5" move - on a standard WTC terrain board with so much LoS blocking I figure they're going to struggle. Also as Nids are so synergistic, to get all the buffs+synapse etc, I need units that are going to keep up. Lastly - these aren't points adjusted. Would be interesting to add a final colum of % to delete / point - the 6 Zoans + Neuro are sooo expensive compared to the other things
Good thoughts for sure! Zoanthropes reach is a downside absolutely. It would be interesting to see everything compared with point adjustments. Thanks for watching!
Tyranid Rupture cannon, when I first describe its states people fear it, then they watch me role dice and they ignore it. I might kill one tank a game.....Once it killed two Rhinos!
Theres a left field shooter unit which is carnifex brood with double deathspitters. 24, str 7 -2 attacks with rerolling missed hits if lead by OOE. Ridiculous sure, but quite a distraction to be dealt with while they deliver OOE to his target.
Zoanthropes are a nice offensive power but just not viable when playing with wtc/terrain/ objectives and a competent opponent. Getting your moneys worth is hard. We just pick other units.
I like your points, yet HOW do you play the unit? I hear lots of data and theories, yet hear very little strategy on how these units shine? Zonethropes are popular, yet they die to every gun out there. Where a Tfex can tank a ton of things. Zonethropes will usually get one good shot to kill something. If that fails then what? They likey will die in turn (unless you can make a lot of 4+ saves). So do we reserve the Zonethrope unit which also denies the Neurotyrants synapse nodes. Pop on the side and try to take down a heavy target? Or start on the board and have them as an overwatch threat to an infantry unit? Thank you for your time.
Hey! Thanks for the comment. It’s a really good question. I tend to only expose my Zoanthropes if I’m going to expose everything, or if they can kill one thing and then stay hidden. It’s the thought that if you overload them with threats they won’t be able to kill everything or they will have to over commit into 1-2 of your resources. I have reserved them in a couple of games but most of the time I just have them hang with my tyrant for assault. As for them staying alive, it’s all about timing when your entire army can jump out all at once so your opponent has too much to deal with. I hope that helps! I could honestly do a whole discussion on zoanthropes haha I think they’re so good right now.
4++ and a 5+ FNP (from stratagem) make a unit really tanky. Try killing a blob of Canoptek Wraiths with a Technomancer - you can't. I tried, and I did the mathhammer afterwards - they trade equally with 10 Genestealers with Broodlord while standing on an objective marker (for Broodlord buff). Zoanthropes have almost the same stats if you give them FNP (T5 instead of T6 and 3 wounds instead of 4). Unless they get hit with Devastating Wounds that do 3 damage, Zoanthropes can tank a lot. Just make sure to punish anything that is able to charge them.
Wish you'd included the land raider defensive profile in the calculations, it's becoming very common. I have misgivings about the 6x zoan with neurotyrant unit because it makes your neurotyrant a target! In my games before he was able to join, he'd often be alive until turn 5 or not die at all despite playing him mid-board, now he's likely to die with the zoans once they get jumped.
You’re right! Land Raider would have been a great target to have included. I think the trick is to time when you’re bringing your zoans out. I normally use them as a counter punch and do my best to keep them hidden from too much of a hit back from my opponent. I also tend to wait until I pop shadows for them to jump out from behind cover. That way worst case scenario I’ve already gotten the shadows benefit from the neurotyrant even if he gets nuked the next turn. Thanks for watching!
@@WednesdayNightWarhammer the Land Raider and Canus Rex are good examples of what big guns need to kill because there aren't many options in the rest of the army. Beating up Intercessors, light vehicles and even very elite infantry can be done by so many other units in the codex, so shooting units aren't needed here. Killing a Land Raider in the first few turns is VERY difficult so should be a bigger consideration than killing intercessors in the 'is this a good shooting unit' question
Hey! I’ve played a harridan on stream multiple times! Our most recent Necron vs Tyranid video, and way back in our videos the twitch plays warhammer video I brought a harridan.
Don't. It looks like GW is trying to phase out aircraft from the game by making them totally overprized in points for what they do, a common theme across all armies.
For competitive, an exocrine dealing 0-100dmg is garbage game design. Casino cannons as so swingy that they sometimes cost the entire game if you roll bad on your first 1-2 rounds. Sure dice, but this isnt dice. This is core game design. To make it more even, d3+2 shots or 2d3 shots is better than the likes 1d6. For balance an ap or str might change to compensate but having a weapon swing so nuch really just makes the entire game based on pure luck with so few rolls.
Great breakdown, just one thing you forgot; lethal hits on the zoan lascannons, on a squad of 6 it's a free wound on average without having to roll. Edit: I stand corrected, it's baked into the results (see thread)
Idk hive gaurd have a better chance at removing enemy anti tank armour and transport then zoanthropes and dont die so easily. 80% chance to one hit a lancer or predator, well a zoan squad only has a 50% chance to do the same.
Only problem I have is the ap on the hive guard. Most things always have cover so the -1 ap is kind of negated because of that. Glad to hear you’ve had some success with them though!
@@WednesdayNightWarhammer only if your trying to hide them like their zoanthropes. I use them as assault bait for a heroic on my hive tyrant and to have forward guns that always get 12 shots. Applying all the focus fire from exo, pyro, and hive tyrant makes them super efficient at erasing things and not getting erased in return. Plus you wouldn't believe the amount of times they literally stopped a basic unit to death with there 3 attacks at s6 in melee ofc a space Marie can stand that all day but gargoyles and gaurdsmen just vanish lmao
Thx for the video. Love zoans since they can kill tank AND infantry with their 2 profiles but they don't forgive any mistakes with their 24 range and 4+ armor sensitive to low AP. But they are really huge.
Agreed! They’ve been doing work for me.
For me the issue with Zoans is that they're short ranged AND slow, 24" range and 5" move - on a standard WTC terrain board with so much LoS blocking I figure they're going to struggle. Also as Nids are so synergistic, to get all the buffs+synapse etc, I need units that are going to keep up.
Lastly - these aren't points adjusted. Would be interesting to add a final colum of % to delete / point - the 6 Zoans + Neuro are sooo expensive compared to the other things
Good thoughts for sure!
Zoanthropes reach is a downside absolutely. It would be interesting to see everything compared with point adjustments.
Thanks for watching!
Love this kind of content mate 👌
Thank you! More to come!
Tyranid Rupture cannon, when I first describe its states people fear it, then they watch me role dice and they ignore it. I might kill one tank a game.....Once it killed two Rhinos!
Yeahhh sadly it can be wayyy too swingy sometimes.
Theres a left field shooter unit which is carnifex brood with double deathspitters. 24, str 7 -2 attacks with rerolling missed hits if lead by OOE.
Ridiculous sure, but quite a distraction to be dealt with while they deliver OOE to his target.
Absolutely agree! They should have been in this video they’re also a pretty good overwatch threat.
Zoanthropes are a nice offensive power but just not viable when playing with wtc/terrain/ objectives and a competent opponent. Getting your moneys worth is hard. We just pick other units.
I like your points, yet HOW do you play the unit? I hear lots of data and theories, yet hear very little strategy on how these units shine? Zonethropes are popular, yet they die to every gun out there. Where a Tfex can tank a ton of things. Zonethropes will usually get one good shot to kill something. If that fails then what? They likey will die in turn (unless you can make a lot of 4+ saves).
So do we reserve the Zonethrope unit which also denies the Neurotyrants synapse nodes. Pop on the side and try to take down a heavy target? Or start on the board and have them as an overwatch threat to an infantry unit? Thank you for your time.
Hey! Thanks for the comment. It’s a really good question. I tend to only expose my Zoanthropes if I’m going to expose everything, or if they can kill one thing and then stay hidden. It’s the thought that if you overload them with threats they won’t be able to kill everything or they will have to over commit into 1-2 of your resources. I have reserved them in a couple of games but most of the time I just have them hang with my tyrant for assault. As for them staying alive, it’s all about timing when your entire army can jump out all at once so your opponent has too much to deal with.
I hope that helps! I could honestly do a whole discussion on zoanthropes haha I think they’re so good right now.
4++ and a 5+ FNP (from stratagem) make a unit really tanky. Try killing a blob of Canoptek Wraiths with a Technomancer - you can't. I tried, and I did the mathhammer afterwards - they trade equally with 10 Genestealers with Broodlord while standing on an objective marker (for Broodlord buff). Zoanthropes have almost the same stats if you give them FNP (T5 instead of T6 and 3 wounds instead of 4). Unless they get hit with Devastating Wounds that do 3 damage, Zoanthropes can tank a lot. Just make sure to punish anything that is able to charge them.
Wish you'd included the land raider defensive profile in the calculations, it's becoming very common. I have misgivings about the 6x zoan with neurotyrant unit because it makes your neurotyrant a target! In my games before he was able to join, he'd often be alive until turn 5 or not die at all despite playing him mid-board, now he's likely to die with the zoans once they get jumped.
You’re right! Land Raider would have been a great target to have included.
I think the trick is to time when you’re bringing your zoans out. I normally use them as a counter punch and do my best to keep them hidden from too much of a hit back from my opponent. I also tend to wait until I pop shadows for them to jump out from behind cover. That way worst case scenario I’ve already gotten the shadows benefit from the neurotyrant even if he gets nuked the next turn.
Thanks for watching!
@@WednesdayNightWarhammer the Land Raider and Canus Rex are good examples of what big guns need to kill because there aren't many options in the rest of the army. Beating up Intercessors, light vehicles and even very elite infantry can be done by so many other units in the codex, so shooting units aren't needed here. Killing a Land Raider in the first few turns is VERY difficult so should be a bigger consideration than killing intercessors in the 'is this a good shooting unit' question
So weird thing. I’m buying a Harridan, or trying to, could you offer suggestions on how to use him?
Hey! I’ve played a harridan on stream multiple times! Our most recent Necron vs Tyranid video, and way back in our videos the twitch plays warhammer video I brought a harridan.
Don't. It looks like GW is trying to phase out aircraft from the game by making them totally overprized in points for what they do, a common theme across all armies.
Would have liked to see the Norn Emissary, nonetheless very helpful breakdown
Good point! All of it’s different profiles make it a pretty interesting choice. Thanks for watching!
Did you factor the Tyranofex Stinger salvo as well?
Its not mentioned in the video..
I did not! It mostly just does chip damage if any for me so I focused on the main guns this go around.
How about PYROVORE
They’re cheap with a torrent attack
Agreed! I run two of them in my competitive list currently. The main focus of the video was bigger gun line sort of units.
Thanks for watching!
@@WednesdayNightWarhammer it’s not always about the size you know, it’s also about how you use it. 😜
Newer player:
If I add a NeuroTyrant to my Zoanthropes, does that replace the Neurothrope or do both go in the squad?
You get both
Yes, the neurotryrant just attaches to the squad so you still have both.
For competitive, an exocrine dealing 0-100dmg is garbage game design. Casino cannons as so swingy that they sometimes cost the entire game if you roll bad on your first 1-2 rounds. Sure dice, but this isnt dice. This is core game design. To make it more even, d3+2 shots or 2d3 shots is better than the likes 1d6. For balance an ap or str might change to compensate but having a weapon swing so nuch really just makes the entire game based on pure luck with so few rolls.
Great breakdown, just one thing you forgot; lethal hits on the zoan lascannons, on a squad of 6 it's a free wound on average without having to roll.
Edit: I stand corrected, it's baked into the results (see thread)
Yes! It was baked into all of the results already. Unit crunch is really cool with stuff like that.
Thanks for watching!
@@WednesdayNightWarhammer oh really? That's super cool, I stand corrected. Thanks for that bud, keep up the quality info!
@@benharrison8855of course! More to come. Thanks again!
You claim that it's one free wound on average but does that take into account the fact that your opponent gets to make saving throws?
@@alexrea123 yes! Lethals automatically wound but your opponent still gets to make whatever save roll they still have.
Poor Hive Guard lol
Still paying for past crimes haha
Zoans obviously
Spoiler alert
Go bugs!
Idk hive gaurd have a better chance at removing enemy anti tank armour and transport then zoanthropes and dont die so easily. 80% chance to one hit a lancer or predator, well a zoan squad only has a 50% chance to do the same.
Only problem I have is the ap on the hive guard. Most things always have cover so the -1 ap is kind of negated because of that.
Glad to hear you’ve had some success with them though!
@@WednesdayNightWarhammer only if your trying to hide them like their zoanthropes. I use them as assault bait for a heroic on my hive tyrant and to have forward guns that always get 12 shots. Applying all the focus fire from exo, pyro, and hive tyrant makes them super efficient at erasing things and not getting erased in return. Plus you wouldn't believe the amount of times they literally stopped a basic unit to death with there 3 attacks at s6 in melee ofc a space Marie can stand that all day but gargoyles and gaurdsmen just vanish lmao
@@WednesdayNightWarhammer and ya I'm loving them!