Very nice video, I love your no neutral circuit, it looks good and seems to work well, as you are a very cleaver fellow how about designing a switch with dimmer circuit for LED bulbs? All the best Bob in the UK
I made myself your "no neutral circuit" with sonoff Minir4m, following your intructions on the vidéo and it works ! ! Thank you very much for sharing it here.
@@MyProjectBoxChannel I tried to synchronize my Sonoff MINIR4M in Homekit and it worked. But after several on/off trials, something flashed on my circuit, i think the fusible-resistor 4.7ohm 2Watt. I did my tests without load (in fact, i put a female sector plug with nothing on it), do you think it could be the reason of my issue ?
@@ChristopheLABRUYERE Oh dear🤔 You should really have the load connected! It's hard to say what has failed without doing some testing. Did you build the new version of the circuit from the mini-R4M video? In that circuit, even if the fusible resistor is blown, then the circuit can still function, but with no smoothing capacitor working, the the LED bulb might flicker badly. You can also bridge out the fusible resistor( and see if the circuit works) Try doing some continuity testing with a multi meter, on the fusible resistor. Discharge resistor can be removed as it is optional anyway. Diodes can be tested with a multi meter. You can also just replace them. It's possible that some components were faulty/bad quality🤔. Is the capacitor rated at 400V or more?
I tested diodes, they were all ok. I tested the fusible resistor and it was cut so I just replaced it and now the circuit works again (with a load this time 😅) Thank you for your quick answer. So happy to use this circuit.
@@ChristopheLABRUYERE this circuit is still in the prototype stages, so if your fusible resistor keeps blowing, you could experiment with different values. Maybe use two 10ohm in parallel 🤔. Or a higher wattage 4.7 ohm?
I think it's because zigbee devices have very low current consumption. So it's easier to make it work without a neutral. Remember you are "stealing" power from the light bulb, but trying to do it without turning it on. You are effectively getting the neutral return path through the light bulb.
@@fluxcapacitor mabe it will be possible with a firmware upgrade. I'm not sure if the hardware is capable of doing this 🤔. Maybe the Sonoff zigbee bridge will get a Matter-enabled firmware update?
@@MyProjectBoxChannel A possibility indeed, that in my opinion is fundamentally flaw as Matter allows us to finally get rid of all these proprietary hubs. May I add another remark to fuel your first hypothesis above about the power levels flawing through these Wi-Fi circuits. Maybe the problem does not come from the Wi-Fi chip only, but the CPU and memory requirements too: We can recall that the Shelly 1L (alas now discontinued) and Shelly Dimmer 2 do not require a neutral wire. They can be flashed with HAA (Home Accessory Architect) which brings HomeKit to these Wi-Fi (yes, Wi-Fi!) modules, yet the LEDs didn't glow in the dark due to the leakage current. However, these two modules used an ESP8266 instead of an ESP32, which could account for the energy savings. ESP8266 are not powerful enough for Matter. Henceforth, many Shelly modules use a more powerful ESP32, meaning that they can now run Matter (e.g. flashing them with Tasmota) but they do not have the non-neutral feature anymore… Hence you may certainly be on the right track about this.
I wouldn't recommend it. It might be ok , but the capacitor won't be very effective at reducing the ripple from the half-wave rectification. So you may lose some lamp brightness, and possibly have a very slight bit of flickering. The circuit really was designed for LED lamps as a load.
Sonoff and Shelly set the negative GND to L = hot conductor. Between N and Plus of the CPU, 226.7 volts (at 230V) are reduced to get 3.3 volts. This makes it easier to operate the switch at Minus (= L)
Hi thanks for your video! Really helped me alot. One question, would it make sense to use a regular fuse cartridge on the load line instead of a fusible resistor? E.g. a 3amp fuses for the 3amps diodes?
Yes, You can definitely use a 3A fuse, inline with the L, if you like. But the resistor has two jobs, it acts as a inrush current limiter, for when the capacitor initially charges up, and secondly as a fuse(If the capacitor failed). It should still work fine without the resistor, but the lifespan is increased, by adding a resistor. It puts less stress on the capacitor.
@@MyProjectBoxChannel Great thank you for such a prompt response! Because I couldn’t easily find a fusible resistor where I am. I guess an 5-10ohm thermistor would also work instead of the fusible resistor?
@@hoanglonguk yes a NTC thermistor is even better, but not good for turning on and off repeatedly in a short time, because they need time to cool down( like when used for inrush limiting in a SMPS). You can also use a "normal resistor" inline with a fuse. 1 or 2 W , 5-10 ohm. The circuit should work fine without the resistor or fuse, if you want to test it out first.
@@MyProjectBoxChannel ah good point wrt to cool down! I’ll give the inline resistor and fuse a go. Thanks for all your help and pointers much appreciated!
@@MyProjectBoxChannel FYI the circuit seems to works many thanks again for all your help! Circuit seems to also work fine them on the aqara relay and switches. Though in some rooms with the Thorn Amy down lights, it seems they don’t play nice with the half wave circuit at all. Since the lights down the chain seem to flicker quite badly. Do you have any suggestion to remedy this in the main bypass circuit? Otherwise I think there will be too many points of failures if I go and put a capacitor on every light 🥲
@@vanderleisilvasantos5343 the smoothing capacitor charges to the peak of the sinewave, so the voltage does not drop to efective half-wave rectified. It's kept close to the peak voltage. You should get full brightness of the LED bulb😉👍
8:23 This won't be up to code even in the UK due to accessibility. You can't turn off the light bulb fully to install/replace one in the future. The lightbulb connector is live regardless of the switch orientation due to your circuit at the bulb side.
I don't think any home made circuit can meet code or electrical certification anyway. But it's worth mentioning that when the smart sonoff relay is off, with my circuit, the voltage at the light bulb socket is effectively at 0-Volt or at Neutral potential.(after the capacitor is discharged by its bleed resistor). I was always taught that a light switch, should ever be considered a safe means of isolation for maintenance. The circuit should always be isolated, on the circuit breaker, before working on it. If you look at "staircase switching" or 3-way switching, It's very difficult to know if the switch is in the ON or OFF position. Especially if the bulb failed while on. Lots of commercial smart lighting options, have the light fixture permanently powered!, and the light switch merely acts as a remote control for that light fixture/Smart bulb. Most no-neutral solutions, also have current permanently at the light bulb socket, like the sonoff s-mate. The concept of a physical switch cutting the power the the lamp socket is also not so clear cut anymore. It could be a triac or some other electronic switch, not actual switch contacts. The light switch can't be trusted for isolation, if it can be remotely controlled/overridden!
@MyProjectBoxChannel The only thing that I can think of to solve your simple circuit is to add a small "killswitch" at the "light switch side" so your "bulb circuit" doesn't get connected to live at the "switch side". There are so many flaws in this but I'll touch on this. When the "beefier" diodes fail due to overcurrent (lightning) or overload of your house total appliances, it will essentially render your trip breaker useless without you even knowing. Even if you put back the fuse to the original position, it will not pop at all due to the faulty diode. Do not do this people.
@@jackipiegg you do have lamp socket bases, here in the UK, with built-in light switches, so that could be a option. A UK lighting circuit is normally on a 6Amp circuit breaker. 10AMPs on 230Vac! , that means the the diodes are good for over 2000w of LED lights!!!!! How do you overlaod a lighting circuit with more than 10Amps (my led bulbs draw 35Ma, thats 0.035A). Most LED light are not even 10w! I know on 110V systems the current is double, but overloading a lighting circuit over 10AMP is very difficult to do with LED lighting. Maybe in North American you may require a inline fuse, for the larger current circuit breakers. I have done some sort-circuit testing, with my bypass on 6AMP and 10AMP circuit breakers. The diodes have survived the fault current so far in my testing(they can handle over 200Amp for a brief instant). Obviously the house wiring has some impedance, so the fault current would be different for each situation.
@@jackipiegg yes lightning can definitely fry electronics 😉👍. I could also add a gas discharge arrestor, for lightning protection and other voltage surge. Maybe a metal oxide varistor MOV. But it's a rare occurrence, depending on where you live.
First of all, thanks for the video. I started to make this circuit today and linked to my led light. Unfortunately it doesn't work for me. The Sonoff can be powered up but every time I turned it on my main switch tripped.
It sounds like you have One or more diodes the wrong way around. Replace your diodes, or test them. The diodes can look completely normal but still be faulty. In this video I use a old style incandescent light bulb, as safety current limiting, so you can safely test your circuit without damaging anything. ua-cam.com/video/oBR5O391m_c/v-deo.html At 12:55 time stamp😉
@@WiseSimpson you have to have both modules in circuit!! If you only connect the bypass, you will definitely have a short-circuit!! Because the diodes in the bypass are shorting out on every half cycle of the AC waveform!! In this circuit there is no room for errors, every component needs to be in the correct polarity and place , otherwise you will have a short-circuit and probably damage something. That's why my current limiting test circuit is a good idea trust me(from this video ua-cam.com/video/oBR5O391m_c/v-deo.html )
Because it doesn't support matter (yet). The modules also gives you more freedom to use different smart switches without a neutral. Like NSpanel and NSpanelPro
Hi there, do you still sell these circuit hacks. Where are you based? I am based in South Africa and I don't have a neutral wire behind the switch. thanks
@@mattpanex I live in the UK and Portugal some times. I haven't had much spare time to build these things. It's not really worth the time and effort, for the little money I can change from it. I have some updates I want to make to my design. So maybe I will make a few prototypes available for people to try.
Yes I think it would work fine, especially with the bigger 10A10 Diodes. The capacitor value should be OK, but you can increase the value if you get some flickering. My circuits have all been tested on "220v-240v"👍. If you look at this older video, I have a safe testing procedure, so nothing gets destroyed, if you make a mistake. ua-cam.com/video/oBR5O391m_c/v-deo.html
@@MyProjectBoxChannel thanks👍🏻. Would it work with corresponding switches - like one switch in each side of a hallway and the light in the middle of the ceiling? Thinks it runs like phase to switch one, - to switch two, - back to one - througt light bulp to - Zero… : or could be phase to light bulp to switch one, to switch 2, back to one - to Zero. This I have in one house.
@@larsw.larsen4173 I think you might be referring to 2-way or 3-way light switching 🤔. The problem is if its wired the European way. You will need to get to the first switch supply feed, and the last switch, switched line out going back up to the light bulb. These two ends need to somehow go to S1 and S2. That probably means pulling extra wires! In the UK it's wired differently, and you can just connect it at the first switch. ua-cam.com/video/7g0kjF7yobk/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/9hQFFsBkxaU/v-deo.html
👍🏻 it’s in Denmark and Sweden. Denmark. 2 switches for one light bulp. Both switches kan operate lightbulp. Both on or og off gives light to lightbulp. One on one off gives no light. Phase is going to light bulp. 0 comes from the switch most far away. Right now I have both switches on = mini just works lige an Son-off RF switch. Seems like I needs to draw 3 new wires - 1 wire from 0 to Son-off mini. 2 wires phase from son-off mini S1 to switches and one back to son-off mini S2. This seems to need a lot of wiriring that I dont have space for. Do you think that the Son-off zigbee mini could solve this issue?
@@rcwilli1991 the difference is zbmini is not Matter-enabled. With "matter", it can be controlled locally and "cloud free", by many devices like amazon alexa and Google home. You don't need to rely on the Chinese app and worry about cloud services going down.
I've recently started looking into Smartifying my home and these videos on Sonoff have been very useful. Very sad that Sonoff still haven't released a no-neutral version of the matter enabled mini R4 device, I'm torn on if I should go with the no-neutral zigbee version for now or get this one and do the bypass.
I know what you mean 😏. The bypass makes sense when using it with the more expensive sonoff switchman m5 and nspanel that don't have a NO-NEUTRAL option.
Fantastic video. I'm in the UK and have replicated your circuits and also have both a Sonoff R4 mini Extreme and a couple of Tuya based mini switches. The issue that I have is my consumer unit has RCBOs and when connected this instantly trips the lighting circuit. I suspect the RCBO is too sensitive to the effective short that this is creating. Have you come across this?
No I have RCBOs aswell, and have not experienced any tripping. Have you tried to make a test mockup circuit on a plug socket? It's also useful to use my current limiting test circuit, so you don't damage any thing. It's not always possible to see if a diode is damaged. Check all polarities. Look at this video example. ua-cam.com/video/oBR5O391m_c/v-deo.html
Well, produced the circuit again but simply using wagos and it works a treat. So you are absolutely right it does work with rcbo's 👍 Thanks for your videos!
Great channel, good content! I've been thinking of your hack for no neutral but space is a problem for me. I have two Aqara T1 (no neutral) per switch point and its crammed already, so adding this extra circuitry is going to be a challenge. I went with Aqara instead of SonOff's or Tuya because Aqara is a more of a commercial brand whereas SonOff's and Tuya are more like hobbyist brands. So far Ive had one Aqara T1 fail on me in a space of a month, I'm assuming the no neutral switches are not as stable as neutral versions but im not sure, so ive been thinking of going with Aqara T1's with neutrals Are there any wiring codes regarding pulling neutrals in South Africa that prohibits or makes doing this more of pain to have done in terms of regulations in South Africa Im thinking of getting an electrician to pull neutrals into my switch boxes, but i haven't seen anything in the wiring codes about this in SA I was also testing two Shelly Dimmer 2's wired in no neutral configuration and they both stopped working mysteriously (died) for no reason, no visible burnt out components. My other Aqara T1 no neutrals are still fine, but im starting to question my decision to go with no neutral switchea. The two Shelly Dimmers were R850 a piece and the Aqara's were around R400, so naturally im concerned about their reliability, im not sure why three no neutral switches have died after such a short time! Im on a 5kw Kodak inverter so things should be more stable than Eskoms supply 🤦♂️
@@grantp3911 It's always going to be better to have a proper neutral behind the light switch. It's great if it's possible to do it, but in the UK the wires are normally directly plastered over, and not in conduit. So often you need to chase extra wires in to the wall. I have a different opinion were you can put the smart switch up by the light fixture. ua-cam.com/video/x7Q8AS238pY/v-deo.html Sonoff also does something called "magic switch mode" , this allows you to put it up by the light fixture ua-cam.com/video/NudSvGNqbAo/v-deo.html
@@MyProjectBoxChannel Nice 😄, you now have me wanting to investigate the diode across the switch solution, with the optocoupler circuit and sonoff at the ceiling rose. Thanks for the feedback and suggestions 👍🏻
@@grantp3911 my circuits are very much experimental/prototypes and I'm Constantly trying to improve them. I know some people have tried with different brands of smart switches. People have reported that with some brands all diode polarities ( and capacitor, optocupler) need reversing. I suggest that you make a test rig to experiment first. Read the comments from others. Here is a slightly updated version of the circuit, with a capacitor to stop any flickering on the LED light. It's for 2way lighting, but it's essentially the same circuit. ua-cam.com/video/9hQFFsBkxaU/v-deo.html
Hi, I think I am a little late, but are you still selling these? I don't have the ability to make this and would really appreciate if you could give me a way to buy both the modules. Thanks.
I will probably build some more of these modules as soon as I have some spare time. Keep a eye out in the description of this video, for links were to get them from. It's difficult to justify the work going into making them, for so little money.
@@MyProjectBoxChannelI completely understand and thank you for the effort you are putting in to help people like me that are not too comfortable with making diy circuits with mains. If you do think you will make some more could you let me know around when you will be selling them if possible. Thanks.
@@MyProjectBoxChannel I am considering making the circuit, would it be possible to give the links to the components you used, if not could you give more detail of the individual components as I am not too sure on which ones to buy, as there are many different types of for example 5 ohm fusible resistors. Thanks.
Yes, absolutely. It will not trigger the RCD😉👍. I have RCDs/RCBOs in my house. There is no current "leaking to Earth", and the the load is balanced between L and N.
I don't have any modules available at the moment 😢. When I get time I may make some more. It's not really economically viable for me. I make them all by hand and it takes up a lot of my time. I can't change much money for them. I have not tested it with NSpanelPro yet, but I believe that it will work. Are you planning to bring the "neutral" back from a light, to power the NSpanelPro? But what will be controlling that light, if the NSpanelPro does not have a relay output?
@@MyProjectBoxChannel if i put NSPanel Pro on wall I will control the lights via Wi-Fi. Like I dont have neutral on Light Switchs I use the sonoff smate 2 and some Philips hue wireless modules too. And my wall boxes are small, almost cant fit a module inside 😅
1. If I turn off the light using the wall switch, can I then turn it on using the mobile app? 2. If I turn off the light using the mobile app, can I then turn it on using the wall switch?
I am currently working on a new version, but I just don't have the spare time to produce them for people to try out, at the moment. I will put a link in the description if they became available.
Hey man, i got a bit of advice for you if you want it. If i read your patreon page correctly, it is setup to withdraw money every month, but the gap between this one and the one before it was something like 4 months. Im sure that will deter some people who would have supported you, as they "get nothing from the donation", so you should consider putting it in the mode where a donation is sent for every video produced, though a maximum of one donation per month. I appreciate your video, happy tinkering :)
Thanks for the advice 😉👍. I'm a newbie to Patreon, And it clearly needs a lot of work to add value for my potential Patreons. Sometimes I wish I could just focus on making UA-cam videos, and not have to worry about the admin side of things😩🤣. It can get a bit much for my severely dyslexic brain😜🤣.
There should be a fuse on the reverse diode at the light fitting between neutral and switched live. If someone decides to remove the sonoff and wiring at the switch side in the future, replacing it with a standard switch without realising that additional circuitry has been added to the light fitting, there will be a bang. The same outcome will happen if a diode fails short-circuit.
@@tomriesz2869 you can add a inline fuse if you want, it's not a bad idea. In my previous circuit the "fusible resistor" was in the main current path for that very reason. But I have chosen bigger "oversized diodes", so the if there is a short-circuit like you described, the circuit breaker in the house should safely trip. Adding a additional fuse will take up precious space, so in order to keep things compact I decided to leave it out, and rely on the building circuit protection(in the UK it's normally 5Amp or 10Amp circuit breaker). In my older circuit, people were having trouble with the fusible resistor blowing, with bigger connected loads. ua-cam.com/video/oBR5O391m_c/v-deo.html
@@MyProjectBoxChannel It's a smart circuit design and a well put together video. My main concern is that, as you are probably well aware, it wouldn't meet the wiring code & device standards in many countries. One must ask the question, what was the intent of the standards and what are the consequences of not meeting them? If someone else was to work on this circuit without realising the changes, they could quite easily cause a short circuit.
@@tomriesz2869 I have been thinking of adding a 3A small solderable fuse, on the lamp side of the circuit. On the next circuit update😉. If you think about it space saving is less of a concern at the light fixture, than at the light switch box, were things can get pretty cramped. I don't think any home made "prototype circuit" is ever going to pass any sort of electrical certification, but that is what electronics enthusiasts do, we build our own electronic gadgets!🤔
For all the diodes: 10A10 (or similar) Fusible-Resistor: 4.7ohm 2Watt (4.7 to 10ohm should be ok) Capacitor: 15uF 400V (10uF to 15uf and 400V to 450v should be OK) www.ebay.co.uk/itm/222523863966?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=_6NQH98_Q8C&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=qu3kmgcqR9W&var=521380291755&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY www.ebay.co.uk/itm/166556019261?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=PNnOX8BWT2S&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=qu3kmgcqR9W&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY www.ebay.co.uk/itm/394333920820?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=r05p0t2csk-&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=qu3kmgcqR9W&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
It has worked perfectly good for many people, so it should be just fine😉👍. You could try just moving the resistor if you prefer. You simply put it inline with the capacitor (Series with the positive) but that's up to you. I suggest you build everything up on a test circuit first (powered from a socket) just to verify its all working. Then do the final installation.
@@MyProjectBoxChannel Thanks for the advice ! Thanks for the quick feedback! I watch your video through a translator. I am also writing to you through a translator)) I HOPE I WILL NOT MAKE ANY MISTAKES IN THE CHAIN😂
@housevideos2024 It can be pretty straightforward or get very complicated, depending on the situation and wiring in your house. I tried to provide a few different options in this video to cater for different needs. There are probably simpler battery operated options, but if you like me, you hate things powered with batteries that need changing, and want them permanently wired in.
Would you prefer the title to be called, NO-NEUTRAL adaptor for mini-R4M? I'm the only person that came up with a circuit solution, for not having a neutral behind your light switch, and still being able to use the mini-R4M with no neutral! Sonoff have not made a NO-NEUTRAL version that is matter compatible yet. So this solution can help many people. Lots of people have built my circuits and are happy with the result.
I don't have much spare time to build them. Is also not worth all the time and effort for the very little money, I can charge for them😮💨😔😪. I have a older video, with a much simpler circuit, to make your self. ua-cam.com/video/oBR5O391m_c/v-deo.html
Very nice video, I love your no neutral circuit, it looks good and seems to work well, as you are a very cleaver fellow how about designing a switch with dimmer circuit for LED bulbs? All the best Bob in the UK
I made myself your "no neutral circuit" with sonoff Minir4m, following your intructions on the vidéo and it works ! !
Thank you very much for sharing it here.
I'm so glad it worked for you 😉 👍. I'm continuously looking for ways to improve the circuit👍
@@MyProjectBoxChannel I tried to synchronize my Sonoff MINIR4M in Homekit and it worked.
But after several on/off trials, something flashed on my circuit, i think the fusible-resistor 4.7ohm 2Watt.
I did my tests without load (in fact, i put a female sector plug with nothing on it), do you think it could be the reason of my issue ?
@@ChristopheLABRUYERE Oh dear🤔 You should really have the load connected! It's hard to say what has failed without doing some testing. Did you build the new version of the circuit from the mini-R4M video? In that circuit, even if the fusible resistor is blown, then the circuit can still function, but with no smoothing capacitor working, the the LED bulb might flicker badly. You can also bridge out the fusible resistor( and see if the circuit works) Try doing some continuity testing with a multi meter, on the fusible resistor. Discharge resistor can be removed as it is optional anyway. Diodes can be tested with a multi meter. You can also just replace them. It's possible that some components were faulty/bad quality🤔. Is the capacitor rated at 400V or more?
I tested diodes, they were all ok.
I tested the fusible resistor and it was cut so I just replaced it and now the circuit works again (with a load this time 😅)
Thank you for your quick answer.
So happy to use this circuit.
@@ChristopheLABRUYERE this circuit is still in the prototype stages, so if your fusible resistor keeps blowing, you could experiment with different values. Maybe use two 10ohm in parallel 🤔. Or a higher wattage 4.7 ohm?
Why did Sonoff make the Zigbee version non-neutral but the Matter version with a mandatory neutral? What were they thinking?
I think it's because zigbee devices have very low current consumption. So it's easier to make it work without a neutral. Remember you are "stealing" power from the light bulb, but trying to do it without turning it on. You are effectively getting the neutral return path through the light bulb.
@@MyProjectBoxChannel good point. Then Sonoff should have made a non-neutral Matter over Thread module instead of Wi-Fi.
@@fluxcapacitor mabe it will be possible with a firmware upgrade. I'm not sure if the hardware is capable of doing this 🤔. Maybe the Sonoff zigbee bridge will get a Matter-enabled firmware update?
@@MyProjectBoxChannel A possibility indeed, that in my opinion is fundamentally flaw as Matter allows us to finally get rid of all these proprietary hubs.
May I add another remark to fuel your first hypothesis above about the power levels flawing through these Wi-Fi circuits. Maybe the problem does not come from the Wi-Fi chip only, but the CPU and memory requirements too: We can recall that the Shelly 1L (alas now discontinued) and Shelly Dimmer 2 do not require a neutral wire. They can be flashed with HAA (Home Accessory Architect) which brings HomeKit to these Wi-Fi (yes, Wi-Fi!) modules, yet the LEDs didn't glow in the dark due to the leakage current. However, these two modules used an ESP8266 instead of an ESP32, which could account for the energy savings. ESP8266 are not powerful enough for Matter. Henceforth, many Shelly modules use a more powerful ESP32, meaning that they can now run Matter (e.g. flashing them with Tasmota) but they do not have the non-neutral feature anymore… Hence you may certainly be on the right track about this.
Superbh! ❤ What type of diode do you use? What is its reverse bias voltage? Can it withstand voltage spikes?
The diodes are all of the 10A10 type rated at 1000v and 10Amp. It's a bit overkill for LED lighting, but make for a tough/robust circuit.
@@MyProjectBoxChannel Awesome! 👏
Would this newer beefed up version work with a much bigger load (say a 500W halogen lamp)?
I wouldn't recommend it. It might be ok , but the capacitor won't be very effective at reducing the ripple from the half-wave rectification. So you may lose some lamp brightness, and possibly have a very slight bit of flickering. The circuit really was designed for LED lamps as a load.
Sonoff and Shelly set the negative GND to L = hot conductor.
Between N and Plus of the CPU, 226.7 volts (at 230V) are reduced to get 3.3 volts.
This makes it easier to operate the switch at Minus (= L)
Yes I noticed that 🤔👍😉
Is this works with 240 AC
@@oshadhanirmana9761 Yes 👍😉 that is the voltage used in the video
Hi thanks for your video! Really helped me alot. One question, would it make sense to use a regular fuse cartridge on the load line instead of a fusible resistor? E.g. a 3amp fuses for the 3amps diodes?
Yes, You can definitely use a 3A fuse, inline with the L, if you like. But the resistor has two jobs, it acts as a inrush current limiter, for when the capacitor initially charges up, and secondly as a fuse(If the capacitor failed). It should still work fine without the resistor, but the lifespan is increased, by adding a resistor. It puts less stress on the capacitor.
@@MyProjectBoxChannel Great thank you for such a prompt response! Because I couldn’t easily find a fusible resistor where I am. I guess an 5-10ohm thermistor would also work instead of the fusible resistor?
@@hoanglonguk yes a NTC thermistor is even better, but not good for turning on and off repeatedly in a short time, because they need time to cool down( like when used for inrush limiting in a SMPS). You can also use a "normal resistor" inline with a fuse. 1 or 2 W , 5-10 ohm. The circuit should work fine without the resistor or fuse, if you want to test it out first.
@@MyProjectBoxChannel ah good point wrt to cool down! I’ll give the inline resistor and fuse a go. Thanks for all your help and pointers much appreciated!
@@MyProjectBoxChannel FYI the circuit seems to works many thanks again for all your help! Circuit seems to also work fine them on the aqara relay and switches. Though in some rooms with the Thorn Amy down lights, it seems they don’t play nice with the half wave circuit at all. Since the lights down the chain seem to flicker quite badly.
Do you have any suggestion to remedy this in the main bypass circuit? Otherwise I think there will be too many points of failures if I go and put a capacitor on every light 🥲
Congratulations on the beautiful work, but I have a question about the diode. You won't have a drop in voltage by half.
@@vanderleisilvasantos5343 the smoothing capacitor charges to the peak of the sinewave, so the voltage does not drop to efective half-wave rectified. It's kept close to the peak voltage. You should get full brightness of the LED bulb😉👍
8:23
This won't be up to code even in the UK due to accessibility.
You can't turn off the light bulb fully to install/replace one in the future.
The lightbulb connector is live regardless of the switch orientation due to your circuit at the bulb side.
I don't think any home made circuit can meet code or electrical certification anyway. But it's worth mentioning that when the smart sonoff relay is off, with my circuit, the voltage at the light bulb socket is effectively at 0-Volt or at Neutral potential.(after the capacitor is discharged by its bleed resistor). I was always taught that a light switch, should ever be considered a safe means of isolation for maintenance. The circuit should always be isolated, on the circuit breaker, before working on it. If you look at "staircase switching" or 3-way switching, It's very difficult to know if the switch is in the ON or OFF position. Especially if the bulb failed while on. Lots of commercial smart lighting options, have the light fixture permanently powered!, and the light switch merely acts as a remote control for that light fixture/Smart bulb. Most no-neutral solutions, also have current permanently at the light bulb socket, like the sonoff s-mate. The concept of a physical switch cutting the power the the lamp socket is also not so clear cut anymore. It could be a triac or some other electronic switch, not actual switch contacts. The light switch can't be trusted for isolation, if it can be remotely controlled/overridden!
@MyProjectBoxChannel
The only thing that I can think of to solve your simple circuit is to add a small "killswitch" at the "light switch side" so your "bulb circuit" doesn't get connected to live at the "switch side".
There are so many flaws in this but I'll touch on this. When the "beefier" diodes fail due to overcurrent (lightning) or overload of your house total appliances, it will essentially render your trip breaker useless without you even knowing. Even if you put back the fuse to the original position, it will not pop at all due to the faulty diode.
Do not do this people.
@@jackipiegg you do have lamp socket bases, here in the UK, with built-in light switches, so that could be a option. A UK lighting circuit is normally on a 6Amp circuit breaker. 10AMPs on 230Vac! , that means the the diodes are good for over 2000w of LED lights!!!!! How do you overlaod a lighting circuit with more than 10Amps (my led bulbs draw 35Ma, thats 0.035A). Most LED light are not even 10w! I know on 110V systems the current is double, but overloading a lighting circuit over 10AMP is very difficult to do with LED lighting. Maybe in North American you may require a inline fuse, for the larger current circuit breakers. I have done some sort-circuit testing, with my bypass on 6AMP and 10AMP circuit breakers. The diodes have survived the fault current so far in my testing(they can handle over 200Amp for a brief instant). Obviously the house wiring has some impedance, so the fault current would be different for each situation.
@@MyProjectBoxChannel
Perhaps I said it wrongly. Lightning not lighting. A lightning strike could potentially overload the diodes.
@@jackipiegg yes lightning can definitely fry electronics 😉👍. I could also add a gas discharge arrestor, for lightning protection and other voltage surge. Maybe a metal oxide varistor MOV. But it's a rare occurrence, depending on where you live.
First of all, thanks for the video. I started to make this circuit today and linked to my led light. Unfortunately it doesn't work for me. The Sonoff can be powered up but every time I turned it on my main switch tripped.
To debug I left only the bypass installed and it's still tripping. Should it work like a normal switch with only the bypass?
It sounds like you have One or more diodes the wrong way around. Replace your diodes, or test them. The diodes can look completely normal but still be faulty. In this video I use a old style incandescent light bulb, as safety current limiting, so you can safely test your circuit without damaging anything. ua-cam.com/video/oBR5O391m_c/v-deo.html
At 12:55 time stamp😉
@@WiseSimpson you have to have both modules in circuit!! If you only connect the bypass, you will definitely have a short-circuit!! Because the diodes in the bypass are shorting out on every half cycle of the AC waveform!! In this circuit there is no room for errors, every component needs to be in the correct polarity and place , otherwise you will have a short-circuit and probably damage something. That's why my current limiting test circuit is a good idea trust me(from this video ua-cam.com/video/oBR5O391m_c/v-deo.html )
Thanks for the reply. It’s definitely useful. I maybe try it another day
Thanks for the video, but why not just use Sonoff ZBMiniL2 which does not require the neutral wire?
Because it doesn't support matter (yet). The modules also gives you more freedom to use different smart switches without a neutral. Like NSpanel and NSpanelPro
Hi there, do you still sell these circuit hacks. Where are you based? I am based in South Africa and I don't have a neutral wire behind the switch. thanks
@@mattpanex I live in the UK and Portugal some times. I haven't had much spare time to build these things. It's not really worth the time and effort, for the little money I can change from it. I have some updates I want to make to my design. So maybe I will make a few prototypes available for people to try.
Does it work with 220v and up to 20w led bulp?
Yes I think it would work fine, especially with the bigger 10A10 Diodes. The capacitor value should be OK, but you can increase the value if you get some flickering. My circuits have all been tested on "220v-240v"👍. If you look at this older video, I have a safe testing procedure, so nothing gets destroyed, if you make a mistake. ua-cam.com/video/oBR5O391m_c/v-deo.html
@@MyProjectBoxChannel thanks👍🏻. Would it work with corresponding switches - like one switch in each side of a hallway and the light in the middle of the ceiling? Thinks it runs like phase to switch one, - to switch two, - back to one - througt light bulp to - Zero… : or could be phase to light bulp to switch one, to switch 2, back to one - to Zero. This I have in one house.
@@larsw.larsen4173 I think you might be referring to 2-way or 3-way light switching 🤔. The problem is if its wired the European way. You will need to get to the first switch supply feed, and the last switch, switched line out going back up to the light bulb. These two ends need to somehow go to S1 and S2. That probably means pulling extra wires! In the UK it's wired differently, and you can just connect it at the first switch. ua-cam.com/video/7g0kjF7yobk/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/9hQFFsBkxaU/v-deo.html
👍🏻 it’s in Denmark and Sweden. Denmark. 2 switches for one light bulp. Both switches kan operate lightbulp. Both on or og off gives light to lightbulp. One on one off gives no light. Phase is going to light bulp. 0 comes from the switch most far away. Right now I have both switches on = mini just works lige an Son-off RF switch. Seems like I needs to draw 3 new wires - 1 wire from 0 to Son-off mini. 2 wires phase from son-off mini S1 to switches and one back to son-off mini S2. This seems to need a lot of wiriring that I dont have space for. Do you think that the Son-off zigbee mini could solve this issue?
I would love to receive the NO-NEUTRAL adaptor kit in Kenya. is it possible?
Isn't the zbmini exactly what you are looking for? Or what's the difference?
@@rcwilli1991 the difference is zbmini is not Matter-enabled. With "matter", it can be controlled locally and "cloud free", by many devices like amazon alexa and Google home. You don't need to rely on the Chinese app and worry about cloud services going down.
I've recently started looking into Smartifying my home and these videos on Sonoff have been very useful.
Very sad that Sonoff still haven't released a no-neutral version of the matter enabled mini R4 device, I'm torn on if I should go with the no-neutral zigbee version for now or get this one and do the bypass.
I know what you mean 😏. The bypass makes sense when using it with the more expensive sonoff switchman m5 and nspanel that don't have a NO-NEUTRAL option.
Fantastic video.
I'm in the UK and have replicated your circuits and also have both a Sonoff R4 mini Extreme and a couple of Tuya based mini switches.
The issue that I have is my consumer unit has RCBOs and when connected this instantly trips the lighting circuit.
I suspect the RCBO is too sensitive to the effective short that this is creating.
Have you come across this?
No I have RCBOs aswell, and have not experienced any tripping. Have you tried to make a test mockup circuit on a plug socket? It's also useful to use my current limiting test circuit, so you don't damage any thing. It's not always possible to see if a diode is damaged. Check all polarities. Look at this video example. ua-cam.com/video/oBR5O391m_c/v-deo.html
@@MyProjectBoxChannel after I posted I did read more replies so will definitely build the circuit again.
I'll report back with my findings.
Well, produced the circuit again but simply using wagos and it works a treat.
So you are absolutely right it does work with rcbo's 👍
Thanks for your videos!
@@optic1972 thanks for confirming that. I was starting to doubting myself for a minute.🤔🤨👍
Great channel, good content! I've been thinking of your hack for no neutral but space is a problem for me.
I have two Aqara T1 (no neutral) per switch point and its crammed already, so adding this extra circuitry is going to be a challenge.
I went with Aqara instead of SonOff's or Tuya because Aqara is a more of a commercial brand whereas SonOff's and Tuya are more like hobbyist brands.
So far Ive had one Aqara T1 fail on me in a space of a month, I'm assuming the no neutral switches are not as stable as neutral versions but im not sure, so ive been thinking of going with Aqara T1's with neutrals
Are there any wiring codes regarding pulling neutrals in South Africa that prohibits or makes doing this more of pain to have done in terms of regulations in South Africa
Im thinking of getting an electrician to pull neutrals into my switch boxes, but i haven't seen anything in the wiring codes about this in SA
I was also testing two Shelly Dimmer 2's wired in no neutral configuration and they both stopped working mysteriously (died) for no reason, no visible burnt out components.
My other Aqara T1 no neutrals are still fine, but im starting to question my decision to go with no neutral switchea.
The two Shelly Dimmers were R850 a piece and the Aqara's were around R400, so naturally im concerned about their reliability, im not sure why three no neutral switches have died after such a short time!
Im on a 5kw Kodak inverter so things should be more stable than Eskoms supply 🤦♂️
@@grantp3911 It's always going to be better to have a proper neutral behind the light switch. It's great if it's possible to do it, but in the UK the wires are normally directly plastered over, and not in conduit. So often you need to chase extra wires in to the wall. I have a different opinion were you can put the smart switch up by the light fixture. ua-cam.com/video/x7Q8AS238pY/v-deo.html
Sonoff also does something called "magic switch mode" , this allows you to put it up by the light fixture ua-cam.com/video/NudSvGNqbAo/v-deo.html
@@MyProjectBoxChannel Nice 😄, you now have me wanting to investigate the diode across the switch solution, with the optocoupler circuit and sonoff at the ceiling rose.
Thanks for the feedback and suggestions 👍🏻
@@grantp3911 my circuits are very much experimental/prototypes and I'm Constantly trying to improve them. I know some people have tried with different brands of smart switches. People have reported that with some brands all diode polarities ( and capacitor, optocupler) need reversing. I suggest that you make a test rig to experiment first. Read the comments from others. Here is a slightly updated version of the circuit, with a capacitor to stop any flickering on the LED light. It's for 2way lighting, but it's essentially the same circuit. ua-cam.com/video/9hQFFsBkxaU/v-deo.html
Hi, I think I am a little late, but are you still selling these? I don't have the ability to make this and would really appreciate if you could give me a way to buy both the modules. Thanks.
I will probably build some more of these modules as soon as I have some spare time. Keep a eye out in the description of this video, for links were to get them from. It's difficult to justify the work going into making them, for so little money.
@@MyProjectBoxChannelI completely understand and thank you for the effort you are putting in to help people like me that are not too comfortable with making diy circuits with mains. If you do think you will make some more could you let me know around when you will be selling them if possible. Thanks.
@@Gloggles no problem 😉👍
@@MyProjectBoxChannel I am considering making the circuit, would it be possible to give the links to the components you used, if not could you give more detail of the individual components as I am not too sure on which ones to buy, as there are many different types of for example 5 ohm fusible resistors. Thanks.
@@MyProjectBoxChannel Would this be possible? As I do not know which components to buy.
Thanks for the video, would that work if there's an RCD installed in the house?
Yes, absolutely. It will not trigger the RCD😉👍. I have RCDs/RCBOs in my house. There is no current "leaking to Earth", and the the load is balanced between L and N.
I want your bypass system for my NSPanel Pro and shelly 1 mini gen 3. When it will be available? 👌👍
I don't have any modules available at the moment 😢. When I get time I may make some more. It's not really economically viable for me. I make them all by hand and it takes up a lot of my time. I can't change much money for them.
I have not tested it with NSpanelPro yet, but I believe that it will work. Are you planning to bring the "neutral" back from a light, to power the NSpanelPro? But what will be controlling that light, if the NSpanelPro does not have a relay output?
@@MyProjectBoxChannel if i put NSPanel Pro on wall I will control the lights via Wi-Fi. Like I dont have neutral on Light Switchs I use the sonoff smate 2 and some Philips hue wireless modules too. And my wall boxes are small, almost cant fit a module inside 😅
1. If I turn off the light using the wall switch, can I then turn it on using the mobile app?
2. If I turn off the light using the mobile app, can I then turn it on using the wall switch?
Yes and yes, that's the point of it😉👍
Are you still selling these?
I am currently working on a new version, but I just don't have the spare time to produce them for people to try out, at the moment. I will put a link in the description if they became available.
Hey man, i got a bit of advice for you if you want it.
If i read your patreon page correctly, it is setup to withdraw money every month, but the gap between this one and the one before it was something like 4 months. Im sure that will deter some people who would have supported you, as they "get nothing from the donation", so you should consider putting it in the mode where a donation is sent for every video produced, though a maximum of one donation per month.
I appreciate your video, happy tinkering :)
Thanks for the advice 😉👍. I'm a newbie to Patreon, And it clearly needs a lot of work to add value for my potential Patreons. Sometimes I wish I could just focus on making UA-cam videos, and not have to worry about the admin side of things😩🤣. It can get a bit much for my severely dyslexic brain😜🤣.
There should be a fuse on the reverse diode at the light fitting between neutral and switched live. If someone decides to remove the sonoff and wiring at the switch side in the future, replacing it with a standard switch without realising that additional circuitry has been added to the light fitting, there will be a bang. The same outcome will happen if a diode fails short-circuit.
@@tomriesz2869 you can add a inline fuse if you want, it's not a bad idea. In my previous circuit the "fusible resistor" was in the main current path for that very reason. But I have chosen bigger "oversized diodes", so the if there is a short-circuit like you described, the circuit breaker in the house should safely trip. Adding a additional fuse will take up precious space, so in order to keep things compact I decided to leave it out, and rely on the building circuit protection(in the UK it's normally 5Amp or 10Amp circuit breaker). In my older circuit, people were having trouble with the fusible resistor blowing, with bigger connected loads. ua-cam.com/video/oBR5O391m_c/v-deo.html
@@MyProjectBoxChannel It's a smart circuit design and a well put together video. My main concern is that, as you are probably well aware, it wouldn't meet the wiring code & device standards in many countries. One must ask the question, what was the intent of the standards and what are the consequences of not meeting them? If someone else was to work on this circuit without realising the changes, they could quite easily cause a short circuit.
@@tomriesz2869 I have been thinking of adding a 3A small solderable fuse, on the lamp side of the circuit. On the next circuit update😉. If you think about it space saving is less of a concern at the light fixture, than at the light switch box, were things can get pretty cramped. I don't think any home made "prototype circuit" is ever going to pass any sort of electrical certification, but that is what electronics enthusiasts do, we build our own electronic gadgets!🤔
For all the diodes: 10A10 (or similar)
Fusible-Resistor: 4.7ohm 2Watt (4.7 to 10ohm should be ok)
Capacitor: 15uF 400V (10uF to 15uf and 400V to 450v should be OK)
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This scheme turned out to be more difficult for me.
I hope everything will work according to the OLD scheme. Versions 1))
It has worked perfectly good for many people, so it should be just fine😉👍. You could try just moving the resistor if you prefer. You simply put it inline with the capacitor (Series with the positive) but that's up to you. I suggest you build everything up on a test circuit first (powered from a socket) just to verify its all working. Then do the final installation.
@@MyProjectBoxChannel Thanks for the advice ! Thanks for the quick feedback! I watch your video through a translator.
I am also writing to you through a translator)) I HOPE I WILL NOT MAKE ANY MISTAKES IN THE CHAIN😂
So much faff
@housevideos2024 It can be pretty straightforward or get very complicated, depending on the situation and wiring in your house. I tried to provide a few different options in this video to cater for different needs. There are probably simpler battery operated options, but if you like me, you hate things powered with batteries that need changing, and want them permanently wired in.
remove "no-neutral" from the title, it's just click bait...
Would you prefer the title to be called, NO-NEUTRAL adaptor for mini-R4M?
I'm the only person that came up with a circuit solution, for not having a neutral behind your light switch, and still being able to use the mini-R4M with no neutral! Sonoff have not made a NO-NEUTRAL version that is matter compatible yet. So this solution can help many people. Lots of people have built my circuits and are happy with the result.
I'd love to purchase these, it's just what i need & the problem i ran into.
But i no longer see them available
I don't have much spare time to build them. Is also not worth all the time and effort for the very little money, I can charge for them😮💨😔😪. I have a older video, with a much simpler circuit, to make your self. ua-cam.com/video/oBR5O391m_c/v-deo.html