Love the look. In my experience too many drivers close to the floor can feed a standing wave between floor and roof, but you'll quickly see that in the measurements. With less amps going through those tube amp secondarys the distortion from them will be lower. And with less heatbuild up in them too. I have tubeamp with kt88 using kt120 and now the transformers is the weak link power wise, so using the highest tap eleveates that somewhat.
Yes, 16ohm is exciting. I will be developing a 4ohm version however for those using solid state. These speakers can go extremely loud when given serious power.
Great rationale for the design Troy! A good all in one solution. It only makes sense for the progression, but there's something to be said about the slam of the 15" bass horn's SPL output. I am a big fan of the 2095. I think it's well worth the real estate lol. Also for home theatre that bass slam... Experienced for instance in some movie helicopter/machine gun scenes is un-effing real!
I like your rationale for the new design. What caught my eye, though, was the multicell horn behind you, on top of the mover's blanket. Now I'm going to have search your website and this channel to see if it shows up somewhere, in detail. (There it is, in your website, on the page for this speaker system, the 2800! Ha!) Thanks!
This was an older multicell prototype that I continue to refine. There’s a new one on my printer right now but it will take three days to finish printing. The current prototype is free from horn coloration and extends cleanly to 16kHz no problem. But there’s a dip at 5kHz on-axis but quickly goes away at 15 degrees off-axis…do not good enough. The sound quality is about half way between the classic Altec multicell and my own ES-biradials. So I’ve made some progress sonically and hopefully more so with the next prototype.
@@JosephCrowesDIYSpeakerBuilding I've been around the scene for a good long while, and I'm really still not sure of the motivation for a multicell. What are you hoping to achieve? Is it really just a better dispersion control device than an open horn?
I absolutely love this design and can’t wait to see the finished product! I was wondering-how do you think it would look and affect the sound if you added a waveguide around the low-frequency drivers to match the curve of the horn above? I’m thinking it could not only enhance the aesthetic, bringing the woofers in line with the horn’s massive presence from both the front and side views, but also create a more cohesive visual balance. Curious to hear your thoughts on this!
You mentioned time alignment between the tweeter and midrange horns. What about between the woofer and midrange on the 2800? A 500 Hz crossover should really put non-alignment on display. I think that the design is absolutely gorgeous! The logic behind the woofer topology is spot on. My experience is that series woofer connections are great when crossed well below the baffle step frequency, but 2.5 is better when the woofer becomes more of a midwoofer.
The system is time aligned for the bass as well. The group delay of the woofer at 500Hz is .2ms and the woofer is physically advanced ahead of the MF by 184mm which puts it in alignment. This is confirmed by my own measurement having a perfectly flat response through the crossover region.
I was considering a budget DIY version of the 2800 using more affordable drivers with a 3D printed horn that goes in the baffle. Probable a 1” driver because even the 65CDN-T is quite costly. The Beyma 10BR60V2 is an example of a woofer I’ve heard that sounds great.
That would be awesome. I was also considering your latest 15 inch two way build plans with the beyma and sb + es600 It would be awesome if you could add some more info to the sales site of the plans like with the other 15inch two way using the 15ib350
Thank you for the really interesting post. What would be the expected price range for a speaker like this? (just a rough sense, if possible). Thank you!
The product page is now up on my site. Thanks The video is about three weeks behind on our actual progress. It is now a fully ready product. josephcrowe.com/products/speaker-system-no-2800
I always heard that series connection can be problematic because the reactive inductances of the voice coils influence each other, but maybe this is different in the bass.
I’ll be creating a 4ohm version for those that have solid state. This would have the woofers in parallel and the 8ohm version of the compression driver used instead. I’ve never heard of issues related to series wiring. I would be interested to know where this is published.
@JosephCrowesDIYSpeakerBuilding No puplished data. It was a friend on a forum who had build a line array with cheap fullrange drivers and according to him paralell connection was way better. His speaker ended up being 0.5ohm and he needed a special amplifier for that. He liked it better than horns with AER drivers. I can find the link of his write-up if you want to look into this.
The bass reflex offered a smaller physical cabinet size compared to BLH. I tested sealed to see if that could work but in the end I enjoyed to extra bass output offered by ported…but it took some tuning to get just right. It’s now sounds excellent with extension to 23Hz (-6dB downpoint) something which is difficult for BLH to achieve.
I'll say… This looks promising!
Thank you. There’s more to come!
Love it
Love the look. In my experience too many drivers close to the floor can feed a standing wave between floor and roof, but you'll quickly see that in the measurements. With less amps going through those tube amp secondarys the distortion from them will be lower. And with less heatbuild up in them too. I have tubeamp with kt88 using kt120 and now the transformers is the weak link power wise, so using the highest tap eleveates that somewhat.
Yes, 16ohm is exciting. I will be developing a 4ohm version however for those using solid state. These speakers can go extremely loud when given serious power.
The just keep getting better. I love the look of real wood. Im guessing a few nice wood grills are in the works.
Great rationale for the design Troy! A good all in one solution. It only makes sense for the progression, but there's something to be said about the slam of the 15" bass horn's SPL output. I am a big fan of the 2095. I think it's well worth the real estate lol. Also for home theatre that bass slam... Experienced for instance in some movie helicopter/machine gun scenes is un-effing real!
I know what you are talking about! You should try M83 Solitude (Felsmann + Tiley remix version).
tidal.com/track/139355091?u
I like your rationale for the new design. What caught my eye, though, was the multicell horn behind you, on top of the mover's blanket. Now I'm going to have search your website and this channel to see if it shows up somewhere, in detail. (There it is, in your website, on the page for this speaker system, the 2800! Ha!) Thanks!
This was an older multicell prototype that I continue to refine. There’s a new one on my printer right now but it will take three days to finish printing. The current prototype is free from horn coloration and extends cleanly to 16kHz no problem. But there’s a dip at 5kHz on-axis but quickly goes away at 15 degrees off-axis…do not good enough. The sound quality is about half way between the classic Altec multicell and my own ES-biradials. So I’ve made some progress sonically and hopefully more so with the next prototype.
@@JosephCrowesDIYSpeakerBuilding I've been around the scene for a good long while, and I'm really still not sure of the motivation for a multicell. What are you hoping to achieve? Is it really just a better dispersion control device than an open horn?
I absolutely love this design and can’t wait to see the finished product! I was wondering-how do you think it would look and affect the sound if you added a waveguide around the low-frequency drivers to match the curve of the horn above?
I’m thinking it could not only enhance the aesthetic, bringing the woofers in line with the horn’s massive presence from both the front and side views, but also create a more cohesive visual balance. Curious to hear your thoughts on this!
Love the design.
Похоже на старый Техникс сб 1000 только меньше. Выглядет интересно 👍
You mentioned time alignment between the tweeter and midrange horns. What about between the woofer and midrange on the 2800? A 500 Hz crossover should really put non-alignment on display.
I think that the design is absolutely gorgeous!
The logic behind the woofer topology is spot on. My experience is that series woofer connections are great when crossed well below the baffle step frequency, but 2.5 is better when the woofer becomes more of a midwoofer.
The system is time aligned for the bass as well. The group delay of the woofer at 500Hz is .2ms and the woofer is physically advanced ahead of the MF by 184mm which puts it in alignment. This is confirmed by my own measurement having a perfectly flat response through the crossover region.
Hey hey
Great video you two. Could you release something like this or something like the 1680 as a diy plan ? That would be awesome.
Like a double 10 inch plus the es600 with the sb driver…
I was considering a budget DIY version of the 2800 using more affordable drivers with a 3D printed horn that goes in the baffle. Probable a 1” driver because even the 65CDN-T is quite costly. The Beyma 10BR60V2 is an example of a woofer I’ve heard that sounds great.
That would be awesome. I was also considering your latest 15 inch two way build plans with the beyma and sb + es600
It would be awesome if you could add some more info to the sales site of the plans like with the other 15inch two way using the 15ib350
I like it...
Thank you for the really interesting post. What would be the expected price range for a speaker like this? (just a rough sense, if possible). Thank you!
The product page is now up on my site. Thanks
The video is about three weeks behind on our actual progress. It is now a fully ready product. josephcrowe.com/products/speaker-system-no-2800
Do you not have to have the large horn at ear level when listening?
I always heard that series connection can be problematic because the reactive inductances of the voice coils influence each other, but maybe this is different in the bass.
I’ll be creating a 4ohm version for those that have solid state. This would have the woofers in parallel and the 8ohm version of the compression driver used instead. I’ve never heard of issues related to series wiring. I would be interested to know where this is published.
@JosephCrowesDIYSpeakerBuilding No puplished data. It was a friend on a forum who had build a line array with cheap fullrange drivers and according to him paralell connection was way better. His speaker ended up being 0.5ohm and he needed a special amplifier for that.
He liked it better than horns with AER drivers. I can find the link of his write-up if you want to look into this.
Joseph, can you explain please why the tweeter is so far back, or is it not in its rightful position yet?
Time alignment
If you are trying to maximize efficiency, I wonder why not a back loaded horn bass cabinet design? Is the ported just as good?
The bass reflex offered a smaller physical cabinet size compared to BLH. I tested sealed to see if that could work but in the end I enjoyed to extra bass output offered by ported…but it took some tuning to get just right. It’s now sounds excellent with extension to 23Hz (-6dB downpoint) something which is difficult for BLH to achieve.
👍❤️🫂