Vaush Gets MAD - Debating Free Speech & Censorship with a Viewer
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- Опубліковано 6 кві 2020
- please please please please kill me
Website - www.vaush.gg/
Twitter - / vaushv
Patreon - / vaush
Donate - www.paypal.me/vaush
Intro animation credit goes to / itismekyleg & / honeybunnbadger for the visuals, and / sound_sierra for the audio! Thank you!
"I can excuse racism and homophobia, but I draw the line at being mean to Nazis >:-("
"YOU CAN EXCUSE THE RACISM!?"
well put
I mean, people got mad at a dude for teaching his dog to do the nazi salute cuz he thought a nazi was the least cute thing he could make out of the dog. Saying the nazis were the worst thing he could think of actually triggered people.
@@ishzarkklyon9590 okay, nazi
@@DoctorJellicle ok racist
"Sargon Of Akkad is not a protected class" -- Vaush
yeah, that was a good one.
OH THANK GOD Voaauwdfssfsxvhiydcsh cleared that up.
I thought you weren't supposed to bully the invalid tho
Are you kidding me? Cishet white British gamer males are the most oppressed class conceivable
That was a clever response I'll give him that. However I think it's bogus when a person decides to narc and get mommy youtube to de-platform someone instead of engaging with him. "Lispy queer" was a bad insult because it focused on Maza's sexuality as an insult by itself without adding anything to it. However, I think Maza should've talked to or messaged Crowder and told him the error of his ways; you can't have youtube intervening every single time something like this happens; it's an overstepping of American rights (yes I know they have tos but that means nothing to me when it comes to what's right or wrong)
"Sargon of Akkad is not a protected class" is easily my favorite quote here lmaooo
"The harm is nothing we should worry about, free speech is more important than any harm."
"If one person is harmed by puberty blockers then that's too many."
homie just could not pick a lane
The thing that really bugged me about that is he acts like being a few inches shorter or having a slightly small penis is the worst harm that could possibly befall a person. Neither of those things matter that much.
He can't even admit he has an allegiance
First hour of his debate: Freedom regardless of any harm, and against any benefit in these cases
Last 18 minutes: No freedom because I claim there’s potential harm that means more to me than it does to the people it would supposedly harm.
Interesting point though, even if that is how blockers work, which I don’t think that it has the negative effects he claimed, why does he care?
@@jq1522 Because some people feel like they need to say their opinion on anything/everything, even when they have barely any understanding of the topic and aren't really part of that particular conversation in the first place.
"UA-cam has a monopoly, there's nowhere else to go"
"Just close your eyes and turn off the screen"
Not even Vaush would've made such a bad equivalency in our debate
@@averycon8328 you talking about bad equivalencies is super ironic
@@averycon8328 if you don't like UA-cam then just turn your head away from the screen and press the off button
+Hoolie p My man, you could not stop dodging questions and pivoting in this debate. You were completely incapable of engaging with anything Vaush said.
@@averycon8328 Dude why the heck are you still here? Why don't you turn off the screen? Huh? huh? huh? huh? huh?
The mental gymnastics this guy goes through to try and defend facists while simultaneously trying appearing unbiased is hilarious.
He does it so much he might as well get actual gymnastic classes.
He is sympathetic towards fascists! He can't deny that!
If mental gymnastics was a real sport he's definitely candidate for the Olympics team.
To be fair, he doesn't really defend the fascists. He just thinks that they should be able to run rampant and spread their hateful agenda so long as they don't touch anybody or smell.
His actual point isn't any better though.
@@dinodare1605 I'd say preventing societal backlash counts as defense. For instance, allowing black people to freely exist in what was once "white only" spaces would count as "defending black people".
This seriously felt like a vocalized version of most text debates you find between leftists and conservatives. The leftist provides all the facts and the conservative just flounders around mindlessly.
TheRatSquid never felt something more
It is true for real debates too. :( I wasted couple of months on this with someone.
ive never had an interaction with a conservative that went ant other direction
"I don't advocate for homophobia"
*Advocates for homophobia*
Lol Vaush gets so frustrated, this guy is literally blue balling him. Every time Vaush delivers the whole thrust of his argument, this guy gives him no reaction, just says “oh I didn’t follow that, but...” or “that was a lot of words, but...”, no payoff, no satisfaction
Or my favorite: that was a tangent, but anyway
what? were you expecting the guy to cry or something?
@@adrianliung8374 hmmm ok so words like 'payoff', 'satisfaction', and 'thrust of his argument' imply to you he wanted a legit response? im not so sure about that lmao but i guess its how you read it.
@@crazykubla I read it that way too. It's not really fun to listen to an hour and a half of someone who can't even follow the conversation. It's like listening to a knock knock joke but the comedian forgets what he's doing after being asked "who's there".
this is such a sexual comment. "thrust" "payoff" "satisfaction" ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° )
As someone who was persuaded by vaush to become more left, yeah youtubers have a massive impact on influencing their audience, especially if you look up t ok them.
Very much so. I nearly fell into the alt-right radicalization pipeline myself. I have never considered myself right-leaning, but I came very close to not considering myself left-leaning. I swung back the other way and now try to avoid political tribalism, especially in online discourse. I think the key exceptions are Vaush and ArmoredSkeptic, because I enjoy the spectacle and narrative even if I don't agree with their views 100% of the time.
It's very true, I fell down the alt-right nazi radicalisation myself due to these videos. They do what they are designed to do, radicalise the masses.
@@zxSwifty same bro, glad we both made it out the other side and please keep that comrade mindset.
does that include vaush who openly advocates for violence against political opponents he doesn't agree with?
I'm rarely influenced directly by people I follow, but listening to a variety of voices instead of just focusing on one particular UA-camr or political mouthpiece, including listening to regular people, has led me to lean further left. Ultimately when it came down to people's experiences, 'people won't let me be racist and harass people' vs 'I'm being harassed and am suffering as a result' did not lend me to the former argument, the latter was much more convincing.
The viewer started off this discussion by saying he believed vaush was defending isis.
He then goes on to defend isis.
he actually defended the recruitment tactics.
JOHN GR defending the way the grow their numbers is the same as defending the ideology in a way, no?
@@johngr1747 You're totally right, that's such a valuable distinction to make here /s
1:05:58 "I wanna talk about puberty blockers, d'you have time?"
Vaush: "ughghhh yeah sure ten minutes"
And then the whole thing proceeded to become a whole lot more idiotic somehow
Think the guy's an anti-vaxer too?
Love it when people “tease” me by calling me the t slur
tangerine
Taekwondo.
Titty?
Tiffani?
Top?
This guy had no idea what he personally believes in or what Vaush was even saying. He argued entirely from his limited political understanding and his "gut feelings".
Hey! I was the one who found the guy, you can see me in the chat as "ari_username". I was the one who got them to fight and I am SO GLAD I DID because mando is SO STUPID
@@arieyorsson3191 You signficantly reduced the chance of someone in chat catching brain worms,so congrats
That's all they ever do. They know their arguments aren't even mildly intellectually compelling so instead of attempting to appeal to reason they appeal purely to linear, binary and emotional thinking to prove their points
Vaush* stupid
Ari Eyþörsson shut the fuck up
“What’s that guys name again? Sargon?”
Nice try, but we know you’re a fan.
I'm not convinced that he's fan of Carlgon but he must be a Crowder fan!
Only half way through the vid, but coming from a position of free speech absolutism I feel I now have a much better understanding of why the left wants to restrict certain types of speech. The analogies all made sense and I'm really glad Vaush had the guy talking through his beliefs and why he believed them.
Even if it ends up with the guy not changing his mind, Vaush certainly changed my mind.
Kinda shows you the vaule of letting idiots show how terrible thier possitons are in open instead of suppressing them and giving them a reason to act like some conspertorial group of (inset X boogyman) is suppressing them, thus atracting more followers... Sometimes I feel like the right doesent understand morals or sceince, and the left doesent understand history.
Gavin Moody theres a vast difference between “there should be no limits on free speech because speech doesn’t do harm” and “the white race should rise up and lynch black people”. One is a categorically false statement that on the surface can appear valid until picked apart, the second is a call to action to harm specific people. One is a benign tumor that while annoying and uncomfortable is relatively easily dealt with (or can be left alone entirely) the other is a malignant cancer that needs to be treated with chemo and excised as much as possible before it does serious harm but some people maintain that you shouldn’t do anything about either of them because “what if you give chemo to someone with a benign tumor, you’re going too far and I’d rather let people die than possibly fuck up”. I’m aware it’s an imperfect analogy but it gets the point across. The long and short of it is that some speech leads to the deterioration of free speech as a whole, whether that be open harassment until they “turn off the screen and look away” (effectively shutting them out of the discourse, negating THEIR free speech) or the advocacy of ideologies that will use free speech in the interim to gain power since they have a right currently to say those things only to turn around and revoke those rights for people that would challenge that ideologies power (fascism, radical religious groups, etc).
@@spooks8839 Your arguing a point I didn't make, I agree with what you said, however I belive two things, one of them is that the most effective solution to said cancer is to allow them to speak, beacuse when somone says something like you quoted it displays them as a racist and as a cancer to society, it leads to them being shunned socially and ignored, if you silence them, it leads people to listen closer and gives them ammunition. Alex jones has become more popular, not less since being banned from social media, it seems to me that actions to restrict speach actually leads to destructive speach to propogate more not less, it's similar to the war on drugs, regulation on drug use has actually led to increased drug use, it's turns out states that decrimilize drugs actually see less not more drug abuse. The second is that giving any body the power to determine what is destructive speach can lead to a situation where somone like oh, I don't know, our current outgoing president to start leveraging such institutions against people who are simpily critizising power, trump supporters would argue something like burning the flag or critizising police is as hateful and cancerous as what you quote, and if we shift the overton window towards allowing censorship you can bet your ass they will use it in a insane and terrible way once these people are in power, which in our country seems to be every decade.
The arguments made by Vaush here are generalizable (and he himself makes this point in a future video). Any position based on some myopic, extremist upholding of a single principle is ultimately self-defeating because it allows itself to be undermined by those who don't follow it. It's like being absolutely tolerant.
Little did Vaush know that letting him talk about puberty blockers would send him into a world of pain infinitely worse than that entire free speech segment.
Hijinks ensue.
But Hormone Blockers make Pee Pee smol
The funniest part of that segue is watching chat completely explode. Best part of the video
@@BewarethePurpleOne I did the segue because I felt that Vaush was about ready to hang up on me. I wanted to stay "on the air" longer and used that pivot as a technique purely for the purpose of doing so. I could've debated Vaush about free speech for another hour easily.
@@averycon8328 Oh, I know. Is that also why you keep asking for a second debate in chat? Air time?
"I don't care if he called him the f-bomb, even though, in my opinion, that'd be acceptable-"
He's signalling again. How many times is this guy gonna step up to the line?
"I think you could make a joke like calling someone a queer fairy-"
He's letting it slip. He's showing his ass
"Okay, but it's okay to be homophobic-"
FULL REVEAL! Mask removed!
I love it when this type of person stops dancing around the issue, throwing out poor arguments that barely veil their intent, and finally says what's really on their mind.
It reminds me of Phoenix Wright, where slowly and slowly you can get to peel back the layers of their lie and guilt.
It is simultaneously great and inspirational to my pain
Why is it that we never once say lgbt radicalist back in the 70s and 80s when it was born and free to be so and still people were called a bunch more slurs back then compared to now where If anyone dare say such will be castrated from society?
Truth be told vaush is a radicalist… vaush abuses the freedom our culture gives and try to moral grand stand when he openly promote demonizing other political views trying to claim anything politically right of him is nazism when he himself promote the same exact platitudes of nazism. He knows nothing about anything about facts or anything regarding mental development. In his own argument he claimed being exposed to violence will make you violent. If that’s true than every single person who plays call of duty beats their wives and are violent. It’s stupid arguments like this that makes me question why people take vaush seriously.
Vaush promote supremacy and communsititic authoritarian promotion by demonizing the modern day boogieman.
"Ad hominem is when you attack someone's character instead of their argument. I'm doing both."
I love mad Vaush. The kid he's debating is honestly such an armchair psychologist. He doesn't believe in science because it makes him uncomfortable lol.
This guy absolutely lied about watching you. He would've known your stance on all of these arguments.
Edit: realized vaush points this out at the end.
Brandon Kaminsky Could I get a timestamp on that, actually?
You don't have to be left to watch him I don't agree with vaush but i watch him u just won't subscribe because I don't support his message but this passes the time and he is a compotent debator
Janet A I don’t think he’s saying the dude doesn’t watch Vaush because he’s not left. Rather, because he didn’t demonstrate much knowledge of Vaush’s beliefs. He doesn’t have to be a leftist himself to understand that.
@@WillBassman he's arguing him on his beliefs. Maybe I'm missing some nuance
@@WillBassman this is exactly what I meant. I have been watching vaush for a couple months and he has some pretty consistent beliefs on Trans issues.
This guys literally like "freedom of speech is only ok when it benefits the right".
And Vaush is literally like "freedom of speech is only ok when it benefits the left". Welcome to the debate about freedom of speech: Where left debates words are violence and right argues they're not "violence enough" to allow left to take the freedom of speech away from the right.
@@Muskettisopuli vaush explicitly states that if your words cause harm people have the right to sensor you. Like one the case of christifer Lauren and sargon. Who's words have been cited in the manifestos of mass murders.
@@Muskettisopuli Agreed. I didn't do a great job getting all my thoughts across in the debate but I feel that allowing someone to practice free speech is the default position, so Vaush had the job of proving why it's ok to suppress their speech. He didn't have any objective metric to go by and instead just based it on where he personally draws the line. So ultimately it boils down to who you agree/disagree with.
ColumnMike ah yes, the negotiator
@@averycon8328 vaush literally said his rules would apply to leftists too. You're just wrong. He was very clear on what objective standard he wanted to use.
as a tomboy, puberty did not make me want to present more feminine....what the fuck was that
"Puberty blockers are bad."
"WHY?"
I felt Vaush's exasperation in my BONES
I assume this guy's legs are solid with how much he moved the goalpost
>"Tell me one person who is right wing and you wouldn't ban"
>Names a person
>"Ok but that is just one person you still said you'd ban 99%"
CEO of goalpost transport incorporated
That's his way of doing leg day lol
Making hella gains with his legs.
I will never understand the "words are just words" argument. It just seems so incredibly juvenile. Surely anyone with a modicum of maturity knows that psychology and emotions are actual things, and that you can destroy someone's wellbeing and life without laying a finger on them?
Reducing all harm to "ug ug if you no hit man with big stick then pain no real" is just nonsense.
@nerd Surfer How you do fellow _humon?_
I find the idea of adults crying over a bad word to be laughable
@@Konser_konge then you have a problem with human nature, sorry mr robot
Kong Christian IV af Danmark og Norge next time I see a woman being called a bitch and a cunt in public, I’ll be sure to point and laugh because she couldn’t have been hurt by words! Must’ve been some sticks and stones
@@Konser_konge Boy youre in for a surprise when you learn about emotional and mental abuse.
This guy clearly hasn’t gotten bullied online. Speech is absolutely violence and it can oftentimes hurt more than physical wounds.
Words don’t hurt anyone your reaction to words does it. Meditate about that
Try growing some thicker skin
The way he said “uhh 25” when you asked him his age sounded like a lie
No way in hell this kid is 25.
He's gotta be like...16....No way he's even 20
The "UMMMMMMMMMMMM...... (pause) 25" was a dead giveaway. You don't forget how old you are.
@@inappropriatemoment I mean it did genuinely happened to me once. I was getting a haircut and she asked me how old I was. I was not ready for such social interactions to intrude in my personal life, so I said I was 18, but in truth I had been 19 for several months already. The great confusion that overwhelmed me was so that I did not even correct myself and knowingly left her with blatantly wrong information.
I have been cutting my own hair ever since. But not like Scott Pilgrim.
@@Arkain89 haha 😁
@@inappropriatemoment Blink-182 would like to beg the differ, my dude
This guy went mask off at the end with a 100% misunderstanding of what puberty blockers even are!
No way he was actually a Vaush fan. Sounded way more like a libertarian Sargon fan to me.
Exactly!
This man around 44:00 asked Vaush what conservative would not get ban on UA-cam, Vaush brought up Hunter Avalonne, and the guy said he didn't know who that is. This guy was a bullshitter to begin with, because if he wasn't, he would've known that Vaush talked to Hunter on stream before and has mention his name on several streams/vids.
Explain how I misunderstood what puberty blockers are.
@@averycon8328 Puberty blockers were made for young cis preteens due to issues that came with having an early puberty and were used to postpone it if medical professionals deemed it necessary
That should be enough for you to draw the comparison, if not, there's nothing I can really explain that'll make you understand medical science.
@@wacky3486 So you're referring to a usage of puberty blockers that falls completely out of the context of the conversation. The argument isn't that puberty blockers are bad full stop; it's that they shouldn't used as an optional, permanent, cosmetic procedure on people who aren't old enough to consent. Unless you think they should be able to consent to sex and tattoos and everything else.
"One person is too much"
I sincerely bursted into laughter. Is this guy for real?
You can literally hear the moments when this guy registers Vaush's reasoned argument and his brain almost makes it to a point of acceptance of this logic but then he veers back the other way into his original viewpoint. It really does show that human beings form judgments first and rationalize them after the fact. No matter how good Vaush's facts and logic are, that's not why people believe things and it's a little depressing.
"I mean, it's OK to be homophobic and..."
NO.
"I mean, it's OK to go online and be racist and..."
NO.
He didn't even couch it in "I don't believe in what you say but I believe in your right to say it", he LITERALLY just said it's okay to be bigoted.
@@BullofCrete Well he only said its okay to say bigoted things. How you are not bigoted and still say bigoted things is difficult for me to understand but that I think that was his standpoint.
But to be honest I am okay with people beeing bigoted, I just disagree with them ever acting on their bigotry in any possible way.
Comedy is screwed. Thanks fascist.
I clearly stated that I disagree with homophobia or racism. But unlike Vaush I don't want to suppress people who say things I disagree with. People who just clip statements like that out of context are not very bright.
@brentprodz Thank you, at least some people have common sense.
He talks so heavily about the slippery slope of banning genocidal speech, yet doesn't realise that radicalisation is literally a slippery slope towards violence in itself
"radicalization is a slippery slope" so basically you just unironically invoked the slippery slope fallacy as a way to validate your position?
Hoolie p bruh
Hoolie p dude, are you religious or do you come from a religious area or what? You’re using a deontological moral framework which is simply incompatible with Vaush’s Consequentialist Moral Framework, Or you’re like anti empiricism and use rationalism instead at which point for instance stats wouldn’t matter but argument would, I believe the earlier however because of the “one is too many” and the whole last ten minutes, I’m not criticizing you here I’m just mentioning it seems like you’re using a different moral framework that fundamentally clashes with Vaush’s and is more common among religious and religiously influenced people as well as the political right
@@QueenKrystina No I'm an athiest. I simply believe that a person shouldn't undergo a completely OPTIONAL medical procedure that can produce undesirable effects, particularly if they're underage and don't have a fully developed mind. The default position should be to not interfere with a person's physical development unless you know for a FACT that it will benefit them. Doctors can only go off of what the kid tells them; and this is not an adequate justification for an elective medical procedure.
@@averycon8328
So are you going on record and stand by the claim that radicalisation does not lead to violence because muh fallacy buzzwords?
That radicalisation and violent extremism have absolutely no observable correlation and that such a claim is fallacious?
I love seeing him cope so hard in this comment section.
He's literally going around crying that Vaush wasn't charitable towards him while dismissing everyone that is going against him as a part of an "echo chamber".
He's so mad he got exposed as a completely illogical individual.
I absolutely love it.
So it's either coping or dodging regardless of what I do. It might be difficult to believe but Vaush and his followers actually hold a minority opinion in the country, especially regarding the two main topics we went over. So if don't like the term "echo chamber" then what term would you prefer. And by the way I'm mainly just engaging in chat because there's a quarantine going on, I don't know if you've noticed.
@@averycon8328 Nice "Ad populum" fallacy.
Do you have other complete demonstrations of your utter lack of logic?
You confirm your inability of having even a smidge of critical thinking with literally every single sentence and you can't realize it.
Pure gold. Just pure gold.
"Vaush holds a minority opinion in the country"
"I'm happy even if 3% of the comment section agrees with me because the other 97% is part of an echo chamber"
He literally decided that the majority in this case is an echo chamber but in the country's case it is not.
Why?
Because FEELS.
He just said it and that's it.
Pure. Fucking. Gold.
@@averycon8328 you got any facts to back up anything you said? anything? no? feelings only?
“Would you let a kid under 18 get a face tattoo?” …. Well, in a hypothetical reality where face tattoos where imperially demonstrated to greatly improve the mental health and well-being of teenagers, and also shown to greatly reduce likelihood of suicide, and that their mental health suffers when they don’t have a face tattoo ….. if that were the case, then I’d 10/10 support face tats for teens.
And also, there lies the difference with tattoos and gender affirming care. Tattoos aren’t shown to drastically improve mental health - probably helps mental health a little bit because I know how much people LOVE getting a new tattoo, and might up confidence levels. But nowhere close to the way that gender affirming care improves mental health, and literally saves people from ending their lives.
There's not much of a difference except affirming the delusions of a kid is worse than writing lead on their face
I don't see how someone can unironically say "Close your eyes and turn off the screen" and yet not see that as someone being harassed into losing their free speech.
Bullying people online into wanting to walk away and no longer make content is the goal of the harassment. You WANT that person to leave and never make content again so their voice is no longer heard, or to put it another way to remove their free speech
That's not what freedom of speech traditionally means, it's a legal term which tries to outline certain rights of citizens with regards to government intervention.
I'm curious about the situation you brought up though, are you advocating for limiting the free speech of presumably hundreds of those harassers because they bullied someone offline?
@@luisniebla5517 You don't have to move that far away from the point. Although I know you're trying to bait for a gotcha.
No, their free speech wouldn't be 'limited for harrassing someone online'. Their harassment is what would be limited, stopped. If you're against that, it's the same as being against a group of rowdy men following a twelve year old down a dark alley whispering into her ear how they want to rape and kill her. Hey, we wouldn't want to limit their freedom of speech, so what they're doing is fine.
Try to not be so subhuman and engage with the actual points being presented, please.
@@sacta
I think that comparing messages on the internet to the scenario you described is too obviously flawed to be bothered engaging in.
Luis also clearly engaged with the point by identifying the legal meaning that freedom of speech implies.
I'd also be careful starting to call other people 'subhuman', someone might think you were being harrassive. ;)
@@crazykubla Messages on the internet can also be threats. Multiply it by hundreds of thousands and... And well, the only choice is to 'turn off the screen and look away', so that you never get to talk on the internet again. Don't forget either that, if freedom of speech is only about the government, like you and Luis imply, then private platforms are not doing anything wrong, since they are not government. It is your own braindead arguments shutting themselves down.
Also, I'm sorry that I offended you by calling out your ideology on being below the logical capacities of most human beings, I really didn't mean to hurt your feelings, feel free to report me tho. I'm sure going to throw vitriol on twitter at Kiwifarms' target of the day will make you feel better, though
@@crazykubla Contrary for the sake of being contrary. It amazes me how rubber the spine is of an absolutists free speech advocate. Takes the time to disagree while openly refusing to engage in the content just to side with TOS for a "got em" moment. Like dude.... get a fucking point or don't bother people's time with pedantic statements.
Wanna say my harassment of you might make you want to not engage with this comment section again then I did my job you giant goober.
This guy acts like words exist in a vacuum and have never had a bad impact on anyone.
@fluoxy L. One key means of communication human beings have is using words. Is one of our main forms of communication useless? Because if the words we use to set up rules, express ideas and discuss thoughts can't harm, then they can't help either. Maybe we shouldn't use words at all if they have no real function?
@Hailey Nicole I should have expected a silly, literal response.
@fluoxy L. Our ability to communicate is literally what makes us human.
Human evolution into a modern social beeing was driven by us getting better at communicating and building communities because of that.
But sure, words don't have effects.
"You think stats matter?"
This hurts to hear
"Y-your dodging"
"Oh im dodging?"
How could he not know who hunter avellone is but he watched every video you've made?
If I were willing to take his word on watching vaushes work, I'd chalk it up to a shitty memory like mine, cause I forget who Hunter is exactly tbh
He might have a shitty memory, but he certainly ain't a Vaush fan. He disagrees with him on basic tenants core to his ideology, like don't be racist, don't be homophobic, don't be a dick to trans people. Also, I refuse to believe any free speech absolutist like this moron would actually be a fan of Vaush "I'm Totally Okay With De-platforming Conservatives" Streamer... guy (I'll admit that I couldn't think of a clever fake last name for him).
@@beancheesedip8337 I think racism and homophobia are wrong. I don't believe it should be censored because I have a generally high opinion of the intelligence of the general public and believe that they can view such rhetoric and make up their own minds. Vaush is really displaying his intellectual elitism when he implies that sheeple can be so easily brainwashed. If that's the case, how did Vaush somehow manage to become the enlightened leftist that he is? How did he avoid getting brainwashed?
@@averycon8328 If you're making the case that the content people consume regularly doesn't affect their thought process/ideology, then you're an idiot.
@@averycon8328 if the average person has the same amount of worms in the brains as you, then surely we would be doomed by now
“I just feel like”
Erbyenbe it’s gonna be a good take when you hear that
Hey Vaush i recently started watching your content and instantly fell in love with it. Im currently writing a paper compiling and arguing every major political topic in favor of the Left and I've found that you provide a plurality of valid information for my arguments. I just want to let you know how much I enjoy and appreciate what you do.
Kid: "You're jumping to the slippery slope fallacy!"
Vaush: "I literally proved it 5 times by now how my conclusion is justified. Stop arguing this point."
The Philosophy of "Uh oh, Stinky"
Nasal A S S A U L T
Kaitilinism
N A S A L
Comic conventions do kick you out for not showering these days. xD
Okay, I'm 8 minutes in, does this person just argue from feelings the whole time?
Basically yes, the fucking puberty blocker pivot omg I lost braincells.
It just get worse later on.
Yes, because its a philosophical debate
@@guibeck8259 Because philosophy is somehow feelings?
Yep. He literally cannot process the things vaush is saying whenever he finishes a point, and then reverts right back to his base feeling argument.
Wow, just finished the video. Also just discovered you, Voush. I've binged about 3 videos/ debates from you now and let me just say, you are the bomb. You're so good at debating. I share every single one of your opinions (about facts) so far, and you've helped me build on my own understanding of some things and given me more to think about and read into, which is all I could ask for out of UA-cam content that just also happens to be entertaining as hell.
I envy your station in life and you are inspiring. All that to just say thanks for doing what you do while doing it so well and being so articulate and intelligent about it.
The timing of this debate and that new innuendostudios video is so great. They compliment each other perfectly
HE SAID IN THE SAME SENTENCE THAT HE DOESNT ADVOCATE FOR HOMOPHOBIA BUT HOMOPHOBIA IS OK.
Yes, because people should be allowed to say things I disagree with.
@@averycon8328 Even if the things they are saying can cause note worthy harm to society? Nah you're really dumb my dude
no but its obviously ok because he said he's not homophobic, just wants there to be a homophobia endemic
very big difference you see
Vaush was blasting him and he dropped his mask.
he's saying he doesn't support homophobia but also that it shouldn't be up to the government to punish homophobia
I feel like that was a really good point. Charles Manson never killed anybody, but one could argue that his speech inspired others to do so.
Vaush's debates are good for the ol debate toolbelt
yeah, one of the "OG" influencers...
@@gepisar the Manson Family was the first lifestyle brand
i mean he directly commanded it, more than "inspired"
@@testmate6681 They could’ve said no.
Lmfao I love how calmly he reacted like 40 mins in when Jill gets throated by the spider monster out of nowhere
There is no way in hell that this dude is a lefty… the amount of times he tried to defend hate speech and incitement of hate/violence is insane!!
I was there so I don’t need to watch it in whole to know this guy moves the goalposts so much, Alabama football called him up after this was over
Haha i get this reference because sports
Haha i get this reference because sports
Didn't just move the goalposts, he moved the stadium, the university, and changed sports entirely
This was Alabama football to start out, it ended up as Surrey County Cricket
It started off as Alabama football and ended up as Brazilian Futbal.
Dabo Swinney is on the phone with him right now. Urban Meyer is coming back to coach just to have this guy on his team.
For a lot of chuds the trans kid discussion is the first time they’ve encountered the question of when and how young people can make choices in their own medical care and it shows.
Even at the age of 3?
I found one lol
Metalphoenix hon at the age of 3 a transition is new pronouns and maybe a new name/new clothes. unclench
@@Towlapeiwa What about sex assignment surgery?
@@metalphoenix4244 Sex reassignment surgery is not an option for 3 year olds, and I don't think anyone is advocating for that. Sex reassignment surgery usually isn't an option until you're 18 years old, but it may vary by country. When we talk about small children being "trans" it has nothing to do with medical interventions, it's usually just a matter of letting the child like wear the clothes they want to wear and stuff. medical interventions are not considered until the onset of puberty. after the beginning phase of puberty, (and after several diagnostic checkpoints are past) a child, along with their parents and medical professionals can consider puberty blockers, which temporarily keep the child from going through puberty. this process is fully reversible, with minimal side effects. additionally, statistically at this point only like 3 percent of subjects will change their minds, so if the goal is to maximize well being, going with puberty blockers at this point is the right option. (especially considering the fact that going through the wrong puberty is often traumatizing for trans kids, whereas unnecessarily delaying puberty is not commonly traumatizing.)
Wait... people get to choose their height??? I didnt get too, damn
I’m about 25 minutes in, and I LOVE how you just cleanly and patiently parallel park this dude into your exact point. It should be considered an art form.
This is a Steven molymeme veiwer that's lying to you.
Nah, I watch vaush for his debate skill regardless of whether I agree. I wasn't that articulate but I still think that people with common sense would agree with my basic points.
@@averycon8328 no. No they wouldn't.
Hoolie p No they wouldn’t lol.
@@averycon8328
Your basic points weren't coherent enough for anyone with common sense to agree with.
@@averycon8328 no. You had no common sense. Just feelings and taking offense at facts you don't like
I thought free speech was saying whatever tf you want and not getting thrown in jail, cause last time I checked no one is owed a platform
Im not owed a platform? Im a liberal who thinks corporations can do whatever they want, and any regulation is DPRK...now youtube has demonetized me... REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE CULTURAL MARXISTS W0N AGAIN!!!444
@Dead Ninja Storage Quit your rambling
@@RipTheJackR
1. I'm not liberal, I'm a socialist. I know you'r stupid but I highly encourage you to do basic research to learn the difference so you won't come off looking like a idiot
2. *Wooh* *wooh* strawman alert strawman alert *wooh* *wooh*. Please point to the sentence where I said cooperation can do what they want.
3. Demonetized and deplatforming or two different things but again you're a smooth brain so I wouldn't expect you to know the difference
@Dead Ninja Storage So people are upholding free speech as prescribed by the law and yet you moan because private companies have decided that they don't want you on their property. Yesh some real problems here.
Paradise Archer Poe’s law at play here lmfao
Vaush has really opened my eyes on how stupid us conservatives are. Never thought I’d say this but I’ve been converted to the left
Welcome, friend.
J huh?
@@showtime9878 I don't get it either.
Fascism SOLVED: Just close the window.
Destiny slipped on a slope in this debate.
ㅋㅋㅋㅋ
desTINY
@@nemesiszer0708 that's a girls name
“Big fan”
"I don't know who that (Hunter Avallone) is"
His argument about trans people just boiled down to "41%, bro"
"the christ church shooter named the people he was radicalized by"
*Long silence*
This guy has such an aerodynamic brain
Raccoon Rick very smooth and very small, like a swimmer’s nut sack
15:06
Jill Valentine is physically repulsed by the viewer's argument
She looks like she could use a Jill Sandwich!
I'm honestly surprised vaush kept his cool as long as he did, I was getting pissed way earlier than he was
I'd love to see this gentle soul's takes on this looking at the dumpster fire that is Twitter these days.
I don't know why Tex Watson and Susan Atkins had to do all that killing. They could have just ignored what Charles Manson told them to do smh
Fr the people at Jonestown could've just said they had a juice allergy and all the dying would have been avoided.
I hope you aren't unironically trying to remove blame from Tex Watson and Susan Atkins.
@@landonpowell6296 wait, what do you mean? They are innocent..
Landon J Powell i'm being ironic
@@landonpowell6296 did you watch the video yet? They're mocking the guests logical conclusion, the "just don't look at the internet when people are inciting violence" bit.
"Perfection is the enemy of good." In principle, all speech should be permitted, but in practice it doesn't work that way. Like so many things we have to discard a perfect ideal in order to achieve the best possible outcome. That being said, we have to be very careful about what speech we limit and who we give power to do so. It would be very easy to give the government too much limiting power and for them to ultimately take all speech away from us.
Thank you for your insight Dr. Fragrance
Funny thing, they're not even debating the government, they're debating private companies like UA-cam.
@@jaydezifour988 I still think the same should apply tho. Limited restrictions.
@fluoxy L. If words don't cause harm? Why put them on a watch list at all?
@fluoxy L. Yeah, because building an army by convincing them through pure rhetoric that your neighbour is the "downfall of western civilization", and getting them hyped up to fight a "culture war", will in no way lead to people killing and genociding each other ever. Sure... This has totally never happened. Not in the last decade, and most certainly not back in the 30s and 40s.
Man, listening to this persons arguments its like me from the past when i was teenager and i thought i was smart having similar logic to them.
"I see that you have a knife pointed at me, and you're taking it closer to me, and that's fair. You have that right. You do you. You're getting pretty close, good meme. Hey now, you're breaking skin. I could not have seen this coming. Someone help me!"
''Vaush I'm a really big fan of yours, been watching you for four months, but now let me start unironically argue in favor of points and values that you strongly disagree with, and keep pushing them with incoherent babbling"
PepeLaugh
Crab Eman uhh umm uhh ahem uhh mmm unmm
I believe it’s spelled, peepo.
Miles Hill No it’s PepeLaugh
Sourusophy.exe Amazin point
I, until this video, struggled between hate speech is part of free speech (like 20%) and hate speech is not necessarily free speech because its implications (80%) . And now I am 100% on the side of hate speech is not free speech.
What is hate speech? That's the better discussion.
I'd say hate speech is part of free speech in the sense you should not be arrested. I'm not talking about direct threats of violence or direct harassment here, just "I hate X".
"Shit, I lost my train of thought"
And nothing of value was lost
*1-800 by Logic plays in the background*
Honestly, it's a little disquieting. He would let his ideals blind him to reality.
Hamilton? Sir? Drop the statement of neutrality.
I contracted brain worms from listening to this caller.
Pivot...pivot...and...pivot! He's like an ice skater ⛸
I couldn’t imagine having such an inconsistent set of beliefs.
i cant believe i just watched an hour of "debate" between vaush and a guy who thinks a fallacy is how you construct good arguments.
Time is a flat circle
And I am the salmon
Wrong. Time is a fucking cube.
Carcosa...
The earth is a flat disk.
@@cookiebandit18 moon: oh earth its time time for your nightly disk flattening
Earth: yes dear
"The fact that other people are wrong isn't an argument."-Vaush
I absolutely love this quote.
This is guy is what u get once a normie watches 1 joe rogan video and falls into the rabbit hole .
dude the worms ate their way through 3/4ths of this guys brain at this point this is how u diagnose the late stage brain worms
Can kicking extraordinaire. Never have we witnessed anyone kick the can down the road so much
American history says hi.
I "drew the line" at "I wanna talk about t-blockers".
I'm tired of cis boys arguing about shit they have had zero amount of actual intellectual curiosity to bother asking trans people about or doing any amount of actual research.
I was wondering what the "vaush got mad" part of the title was about, then I heard him say "let's talk about puberty blockers" and I knew XD
This guy was so frustratingly clueless and stupid I got second hand imbarassment for him. I have no idea how Vaush does it.
20:45 Where he completely caves in to Vaush's argument. 'Only if he is being disruptive...' when Vaush's argument is identical. (Vaush claims right off the bat it is right to ban speech that is disruptive to other speech)
This guy's arguments were already demolished within the first 10 minutes, the rest is just him grasping at straws.
“Close your eyes turn off the screen” bro you literally made the argument that UA-cam should be publicly owned and controlled because it is so important and has a monopoly. How are we gonna turn off the screen then??
I think "Guy smeared in shit screaming about the end times" would make a great Tucker Carlson guest
I LOL'ed at this comment.
I got a trump ad. I don't think it understands your audience
Let the whole ad play. Basically, Trump supporters would be paying Vaush to talk about communism.
Burcol Clone I like this perspective
I’ve been getting all kinds of alt right “news source” ads on Leftist youtubers. I even have “relevant ads” or whatever the fuck turned off. I’m not a tin foil hat guy, but there’s something going on here.
@@rockheadonesixtwo UA-cam demonitizes all non-establishment political content (which makes the advertising space dirt cheap) and allow far right organizations to mass buy advertising space at the reduced cost.
This allows them to target advertising to those interested in politics but fed up with the status quo.
If it lands on right-leaning channels it hits the target audience. If it lands on left-leaning channels, it helps organize and energize the trolls.
To top if off, most of the left-leaning viewers will skip the ad, meaning they've also taken up a potential advertising slot for a left-leaning content creator for free.
PragerU has exploited this system abuse to high effect.
i wonder how this dude feels about charles manson/the manson family. If free speech is absolute, even calls to violence, should charlie have been in jail at all for telling a bunch of kids to murder some people?
That sounds like the only case where he'd say no, just because the link is as simple as "man shoot man with gun." Or maybe it's naming someone specific to kill that he thinks qualifies it as violent speech?
"WHAT IS ONE CONSERVAYTIVE CHANNEL YOU WOULDN'T NUKE?"
"Hunter Avalone"
"Well I don't know him. YOU CAN'T NAME ONE CHANNEL!"
Wow this dude was dumb.
This guy has a very simple underdeveloped mind and the way he understands this shows it clearly. He is driven by hate and that's all that matters and don't want to be held accountable for the hate he wants to push and believes in.
I'd love to be a viewer "debating you" on stream but our positions are probably too similar for it to be interesting lol
That wouldn't even be a debate just a very passionate conservation 😭
Brain rotting out of my skull right now
hold in there comrade, the ambulance is coming through.
@@Sourusophyexe the ambulance was delayed due to Corona. Let us pour one out for our lost comrade.
@@CallieYote the fungus got me
In love with the person in chat who said "In my eyes the Jedi are evil"
"You can't just effect a child's natural development"... Sweet! No more school or dentistry!