I feel its best to assume that, besides the designs, the pilots are canon-there's been characters voiced by different people over the course of a shows run before. Plus, the circus outright confirms the scene with Blitzø crashing Stella's party happened, so that's another indicator. Also, I feel anything that isn't in official media shouldn't necessarily be considered canon unless proven otherwise. So no Pentious fixing his egg bois toys or Alastor being a disciplinarian yet fair parent to any kids he finds until we see that in universe. Also, feel whatever happens in episode 8 when it releases should be considered canon.
Yeah I don’t get why people think that a recast decanonizes something (in both animation and live-action). A good example of this is Daario Naharis in Game Of Thrones. He was introduced in season 3 played by Ed Skrein but then recast in the next season being played by Michiel Huisman instead. That doesn’t mean that everything before season 4 is no longer canon, it just means that a character got recast
It’s going to be weird not hearing the voices of Michael and Stamper as Angel Dust and Sir Pentious as well as others, but I have no doubt that whoever the new actors are will do great it’ll just take some getting used too
@Eliminemos a Davis Stevens I heard somewhere that Angel’s voice is meant to be similar to Yakko’s from The Animaniacs, which Michael already did pretty well so I’d imagine the new voice would be similar but only time will tell
We’re probably going to go through the same phase as we did when Stolas & Millie got a voice change, where it’ll be surprising to hear a completely different voice than what we’re used to, but eventually we’ll warm up to it.
@@sweetpea2604 to be fair I personally never got used to Millie’s accent it’s just not as sweet southern sounding whereas the new voice actor sounds more aggressive and really strong in the voice like They are both great voice actors don’t get me wrong it’s just when you get used to one voice sometimes it just will never be the same like Stolas honestly wasn’t such a huge change and I actually liked his new voice way better just not Millie’s tbh
Agreed, I initially HATED Millie and Stolas' new voices, but they fit perfectly now and are wonderful. Stolas' voice isn't the best singer tbf (ep 2 song was great, recent one not as much) but it's charming regardless -- I sing the newest song all the time even with my issues with said song. I'm excited to see what the new VA cast has to offer for Hazbin.
The Italian and French dubs of Angel aren't that bad at all despite the fact they don't sound exactly like Michael. so I suppose there can be some range between acceptable and not acceptable, though some people are used to Michael and claim him as the most Angel of Angel voices. we'll just have to wait and see, on the bright side I have faith they wouldn't screw this crucial part of the show from day 1 and give him a voice generally everyone would like.
I’ll be honest I kind of miss the simple episodic approach it had. It’s not that good but it sounded super fun, and at least didn’t have a bunch of plot holes.
Pilots are basically a creator’s way of throwing an idea onto the table and asking if people are interested in seeing it developed further. They’re not meant to be perfect, with every bit of the story shown within it. This doesn’t mean that people don’t put any effort into creating pilots. It just means that you shouldn’t be surprised by how different a series is compared to the original concept shown in the pilot.
Let’s also not forget the issue of fans ignoring facts about characters because it gets in the way of their headcanon. A good example of this would be with Alastor, people make him out to purely be a goofball and crack dad jokes whenever he can, when he’s actually a diabolical unpredictable monster, and people saying he’s gay for Angel Dust when I’m pretty sure he’s been confirmed to be AroAce. Usually there’s nothing wrong with doing stuff like this if it’s just between you and maybe some close friends, but the Hazbin/Helluva community does it to the point where it becomes toxic (especially since they like to put people down if they don’t agree with a certain headcanon, seeming extremely desperate to try and make their headcanons canon, and like you said, not respecting things have changed and are continuing to change
I have headcanons that I love, but I am always ready to change them based on the actual canon. I know it's inevitable, but I can only hope there isn't an uproar about other people's headcanons not being in Hazbin when the show does come out. Though one could argue that's happened already
This is some extensive research. Vivziepop has really evolved her idea to what now is a massive hit towards two shows that are set in the same location but have different stories to tell.
There is this fandom wiki that I found, and I don’t think it spreads fake information because it definitely have information for HazbinHotel and Helluva Boss also other fandom‘s like My Little Pony friendship is magic
With the pilot not being canon definitely explains why Charlie has red pupils instead of the black ones she had in the pilot, along with having morningstar as her last name, and how Sir Pentious and the remaining Egg Bois are still alive
Tbh I expected that from Hazbin Hotel the most, so I said "well, time to forget everything" and done, no crying, no sweat, just getting excited for the series :7
What I’m really interested in is how the relationship between Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss will look like in the future. That is to say, will there be consistency (in lore etc.) between the two? Or will Hazbin Hotel have to steer clear of connections between its sister show because it’s going to be airing officially vs. Helluva Boss, which is web serial made primarily by freelancers? Food for thought, I guess.
Tomar actually does do a voiceover for a few of Viv's merchandize videos. Both he and Stamper have done official voice work in the past and those merchandize videos were a good indicator that he may still be Tom Trench.
Oh this reminded me of a Helluva Boss review, don’t remember who made it but there was a part where the guy talked about “inconsistent lore” yet one the key examples they gave was that the show is apparently inconsistent on who the prince of lust is? Even though it’s clearly Asmodeus I guess this guy thought it was Stolas? Like sure he’s a lustful character and a prince but very obviously is not the prince of lust (before you say anything this review came out after Ozzie’s and does mention Asmodeus in this bit). I’m pretty sure he also mentioned another character being “referred to as the prince of lust” but I don’t remember who that was
It took me awhile to get used to the changes but I did the grown up thing and accepted it. Sure there's things I would prefer not be changed but this isn't my show it's my favorite show but not mine I don't control it and have to roll with what they decided to change. Change me not be good sometimes but we can all adapt find some good in it at least eventually
I should mention that the actors union doesn't prevent any voice actor from hired into a union project, meaning the pilot voice actors would've come back regardless of their union status.
Definitely. It's because A24 can almost do whatever they want with the show since Vivziepop gave them the rights of the show and the characters. I'm sure Vivziepop will still have some level of control, but if A24 wants something specific for the show Viv will have to deal with it.
"voice actors will change" "pilot will not be canon anymore" When the video uploaded that day And it drained my soul away And I wondered Why I even bothered to try i know things will always change and is just how is it but still, im a little sad, not gonna affect my entire experience on the release, but deep inside i will feel something is missing, anyway still think it will be great.
I'm honestly okay with most of the changes. The one change I don't like, but will probably get over and get used to is the redesign for Charlie. I do like the change in the hair design, but I like the original color scheme better.
2:12 Stamper, please still be the voice of Sir Pentious, the reason he became a main character in the show is because of your performance in the pilot! Characters are their voices! 😢
@@imovedtoanotheracc It wouldn't be the first time that an actor was able to continue their role despite (among other things) being arrested. I'm aware of the events and I feel the show would earn my infinite respect if it extended an olive branch to Stamper. It's an excellent oppurtunity to champion the theme of redemption that the show is going for. I'm genuinely trying to rationalize his inclusion as a main character in the show; Stamper's performance is what delivers that outcome. To have Sir Pentious without the reason he's now a part of the main cast would be nonsensical. A character like Angel Dust being replaced makes sense, there are plenty of people that can do a raunchy impression of Yakko. The three best performances from the pilot were Tom Trench, Sir Pentious and Alastor in ascending order. They have unique vocal qualities that are difficult or damn near impossible to emulate.
The thing that has me worried is that characters that have not spoken have voices in fan made stuff. Like Val (i can't spell his name) he has lines, yet he sounds similar in most fan made stuff. What will happen when he does speak, and the fans don't think he sounds right.
The uncertainty of Helluva's Pilot being cannon is a part of the reason I've always been a fan of tiered canon systems. Saying stuff like the Pilots are "level 2 canon" and stuff from the instagrams are "level 3-4 canon" would allow fans to have their cake and eat it too. Things could be used as worldbuilding so long as they don't contradict anything in the tier above, and things in lower tiers could be disregarded entirely if a fan doesn't like them. Everyone wins!
On the subject of not every episode having to be a spectacular lore heavy adventure, I present the majority of the beach city centered episodes of Steven Universe. They can contain lore but are considered not worth watching by some fans due to them being less action and more slice of life
Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss are indeed great shows and even though they are in the same universe, both shows have very different stories. One is about redemption while the other focused on killing targets for their clients, however I still like these shows even though there can be some problems with them. But what is canon about both shows, well we'll see of what this video is about.😈👍
I noticed that Helluva Boss's story premise is supposed to be 'killing targets for clients', yet only Episode 1, and 4 have this as their main focus (Spring Broken has some of it but it goes against the plotline they sometimes struggle for clients). We then see a job briefly in Episode 6, though ending. The rest of the series doesn't even bring up one of the main premises of the show. Going on complex and exciting assissination missions seems more interesting than not, imo.
@@rainbowtoyfunrandomess1982 If you mean my claims, then yeah, if you mean in general, ik Vivzie stated Helluva Boss would focus heavily on relationships between the characters, but it seems at the expense of the main premise of the show. I still love Helluva, it just feels like a soap opera sometimes
Yeah I remember it was one clip in either the pilot or the first episode when loona was watching something on her computer and it was Charlie’s song when she was on the talk show taking about “The Happy Hotel” (which would obviously turn into The Hazbin Hotel)
0:55 if you really look at this hard enough it makes it look like Charlie is saying what Ayy lmao is saying Edit: well it looked more like it the first time I did it
In my opinion, I think everything we have heard of the characters and the world, even from the pilot, should be considered non-canon until it has been put into animation or dialog in the final product, unless said otherwise by the writers of the final product, which, of course we will likely hear nothing of until after the first season has been released
All I really expect from the series, is that the show makes things explicit and makes sense in of itself. Because if I have one problem, it's that many facts are implied/hidden in casual dialogue or a background poster.
There are definitely issues with consistency of both characters and plot in Helluva but that’s to be expected from an indie production that’s been in development for so long with several hands working in it
Ayy LMAO: 'Now, Fanon isn't a problem-' Me: *Hysterical laughter.* ...Oh, wait, you're serious? Hold on, let me laugh even harder: *Laughs even more wildly*
Wait they replaced ALL the voice actors!? I knew some of them weren't returning but I thought it wasn't known if some of the others were coming back or not 😭
ive said this before and i’ll say it again, viv and her team looking down at the wiki just cus she saw a troll page added ONE time thus making her generalize the entire wiki community while also expecting her audience to appreciate the hard work her and her team exert (which they do) is extremely hypocritical. As someone whos been helping with wikis since 2013, The Hellaverse wiki has one of the most active and strict editors and set of rules as far as wikis go, with another example being the Steven Universe wiki, where, in both cases, at least two or more admins are always on the lookout for any possible vandalize edits or trolls in general as well as using sources only cited by the official spindlehorse team as much as possible. So, i think its really unfair how everytime the fandom wiki is bought up, viv and her crew, extending to the fanbase, just relentlessly laugh at it, ignoring how there is also a community of ppl working their asses off to make it as accurate as possible
Firstly i'd like to thank you for working on the fandom wiki. It's clear you guys put alot of effort into it and i love visiting the wikis to double check my facts when researching a video. It's instrumental in helping to inform the community. I understand why you're not a fan of vivzie and the community looking down on the wikis but there's a couple reasons for this. The first as i showcased in the video was that in the past the wikis were open to griefing and had little sourcing. One example: twitter.com/VivziePop/status/1091819764702421003?s=20&t=V6CNuTT-V6N8fcarzkY4XA . Vivzie has taken down some tweets regarding the wikis, such as this deleted tweet www.reddit.com/r/HazbinHotel/comments/eux1yg/viv_has_officially_requested_this_of_the_fandom/?context=3 Although the wikis are much better now, the fact that they were of low quality in the past has left a bad first impression on vivzie and some community members so thats why. Secondly is that in the past the wikis were open to abuse from bad actors. I'll eventually cover this topic in a larger video but in the past the hazbin wiki was a prime target for griefing from people who didn't like the shows. This happened multiple times such as when the show came out and when vivzie got into drama with scott cawthon. The second example in particular was funny because fnaf fans went to the wiki and destroyed pages just because of tweets vivzie made. Like you said it's stricter now and has better security. But because of those past events its left a bad taste in some people's mouths. And lastly like i briefly covered in the video the roleplay wikis are damaging the credibility of the official wiki. The two fan roleplay wikis i saw feature lots of leaked content which has originated from audition sheets or from vivzie's patreon. The official wiki doesn't have this content however fans have in the past went to these roleplay wikis, taken it as face value and spread the info around. I've seen leaked images originate on these roleplay wikis, get reposted to twitter and then saw them spread. It's incredibly harmful and i'm happy the hazbin hotel fandom wiki doesn't host that content. I hope i was able to clarify a bit on why members of the community dislike the wiki but i hope the reputation surrounding it improves in the future and i'm sure it will. Thanks for the comment!
I just hope the representation in Hazbin Hotel will be more or less intact in the official release. This shouldn’t be the staple of their character, just something to abide by (i.e Asexual Alastor).
I don't think so, because Helluva Boss was having issues with copyright from Hazbin Hotel because it's not "official" media? Dunno just remember hearing things
I recently saw a video about Helluva Boss being confusing. Unlike previous videos from detractors since season two began, this person jumped right in to see what all the fuss was about. Although I found a few points I somewhat agreed with, I could help giggling at how ticked and baffled this person was at the show. I do not wish them ill will, but I think they need to understand how silly they sounded. Spindlehorse is made up of freelancers and both HB and HH are their first big projects. Constructive criticism is necessary for improvement is absolutely essential. But even if these shows are not perfect, that is OK. Besides, there are worse things more deserving of my ire than a silly cartoon about gay demons either being chaotic or bursting into song or whatever else happens.
I feel like hazbin is still in development so there's little to determine what is and what isn't cannon. I can't say so with heliva because there was alot that hasn't explored yet and we are already on season 2 for some reason. We missed whole lot from the scrapped episode, maybe it could have explained why loona wants to be a free spirit, and I still don't get why mille and moxie are an item without explaining why there differences in personality compliment each other in there relationship, and we don't know why Moxie is so sensitive even though he's an imp.
I can fully understand the Spindlehorse team are going to change things as the brand and shows evolve - but it's confusing and frustrating when they release details in some episodes that later episodes flatly contradict. Like Octavia claiming her parents only started hating eachother when Stolas cheated - but Season 2 shows that Stella was abusing Stolas long before that. The way the Spindlehorse crew do worldbuilding is also irritating. There's no fish out of water POV character, so most of Hell is not explored or explained to the viewer. Like the whole Demon Caste system, who the Overlords are, how the Rings/Circles of Hell work, etc. Blitzo's sister has been shown and referred to, but never actually seen. Moxxie and Millie apparently have a child, who has not been mentioned on the show itself. So many gaps in their worldbuilding exist that are only filled on via tweets, or left vague so fans can theorise. Why does Charlie, the Princess of Hell itself, want to redeem sinners? Why is she given no respect when her dad is the King of Hell? Why is Angel Dust characterised as so perverted and vulgar when he's also a sex slave and victim of sexual abuse? Stuff that doesn't add up or is just not explained.
I don't want to be antagonistic, but I have a few issues with this... My parents got divorced out of nowhere for me, and I'm thinking much the same happened with Solas and Stella. Octavia likely said that her mom started hating Solas because that's when it became apparent to her that there was issues. They could have hid their fights from her like my parents did. As for the "Fish out of water", Helluva Boss doesn't need it. It's not meant to explore the world, it's meant to explore the characters and relationships. It's a different kind of story where that's not needed. And I've never heard anything about M&M having a kid... If they did, theoretically it should be only a year old at max because Ozzies was their "one year marriage anniversary" and would therefore be an infant. What you saw was probably either Fanmade, or meant for the future, or just a joke. And as for the characters in Hazbin, we won't know until it happens, so you just need to wait to see for yourself. People can be messed up, and often, coping mechanisms are very closely linked to the abuse themselves, so angel dust is actually pretty accurate to a lot of people in his situation. Sexual abuse can be on different ways, and we don't know the full stretch of his situation yet. Sorry for going point to point against you, I just felt like maybe your points had been hasty.
I think the best way to make a pilot not canon is to very directly rewrite the pilot on episode 1. The first episode of Helluva Boss very clearly continued from the pilot for better or worse on what they want to change. This debate wouldn't exist if episode 1 of Helluva Boss gave off a clear first episode vibe.... But it didn't it gave off an 2nd episode vibe continuing from the pilot. If Hazbin Hotel more or less rewrites the pilot on it's episode 1. Then all debate of what to consider canon from the pilot will be gone. I hope they do this... It really wouldn't make sense if they didn't even more so since this is picked up by a network. So if anyone completely new to Hazbin Hotel watches it... If it seems to directly continue from the pilot it's going to confuse them. Me personally I am attached to the pilot. I loved it... I hate that voice actors are being changed... But... I'm not going to stop that change from effecting me enjoying the show... I plan to clear my head of "what could of been" & just quickly accept all the new voice actors. I'm just going to keep myself always open minded to anything.
To me a pilot gives a bit of information but doesn’t mean it’s going to be canon down the line and we need to be open to new ideas and changes whether that be designs or stories or even character personalities and they’re character arc and don’t get mad when it does something you don’t like
Honestly, I’m kind of over the Hazbin Hotel hype from 2019. Maybe it’s cos it took so long to become an official series or cos I’m more invested into Helluva Boss.
Stolas wouldn’t be a overlord, because he comes from the ars goetia, a class of powerful demons where stolas is a prince. If he was a overlord then the entirety of the ars goetia would’ve been overlords, but then that wouldn’t work.
Honestly I feel like people just don't know the difference between a show being different than what they expected it to be vs a show being bad. A show can make choices you don't agree with and still be good & a bad show can make multiple choices you do agree with and still be bad. Star vs the force of evil wasn't bad because they focused on shipping but cuz they poorly executed literally every plot point after like season 2. Hazbin isn't gonna be bad cuz changes had to made, it isn't gonna be great cuz it took time. It's going to be what it's gonna be and fans just gonna accept it isn't their fanfic.
I feel like that Viv should maybe confirm things that are canon and not canon to the series for example maybe have the hazbin hotel pilot canon when the show comes out but change a few things and maybe have the lore stay the same but she can add more things about the hazbin universe and maybe some more things to know about the characters and if the pilot confirm not To be canon to the series that would mean the hazbin pilot and everything that happen was just nothing.
Actually I wish that Viv would feature some good human characters. Not for one episode but for multiple. In my opinion it would explain conflict better between humans and demons better. Maybe that God started to ask saint people for help. You know. My idea is about human God agent who got to hell and started to do what God says. I think that it would be cool. What do you guys think?
True actually. But what about badass guy he is fighting for Earth but he is very “methodical”. But yeah. Most likely not gonna happen considering Viv doesn’t listen to her fans.
It doesn't retcon it, it just makes it less likely since she is shown to be still awkward and immature when around guys and seems to spend most of her time with blitzo who is over protective and doesn't want her to date. Not to mention she's pretty standoffish.
So to get things clear, cause I'm still confused (lol) -how many official/canon comics exist from hazbin hotel and/or helluva boss? -Are the characters instagram accounts canon? Or even scripted by them? Including the character comments under each others post -Is Alastor asexual? Since a lot of people made such a drama about it. I'd love him to be still ace -maybe there is a list with all the canon stuff, so things don't get mixed up -Can stolas die? -since imps - including blitzø and fizz - can die, what are Ozzie and stolas going to do? They're in love after all, so they wouldn't just "replace" them, right? It would help a lot! I love these shows and want to know as much as possible about them :)
- The instagram are not cannon - Stolas can die from angelic weapon, and andrealphus said to Stella :"eternity is a long time my dear" suggesting that he can't die - It was a fear of fizz to be "one among the others" for ozzie. It is the main topic of the song "crooked" Idk about the canonicity sorry
Isn’t it common for the pilot episode to not be cannon in any show, because it was made to be a concept episode to see if people would like the idea of this hypothetical show
I have been trying to get the position to do allister's voice for two years and they still haven't said anything to me and it's pissing me off can you please help me with my problem my problem
I don't know about anyone else, but I feel like the question of what is and isn't canon should be directed at the creative minds behind both shows because at this point, I'm not even convinced that _they_ even know what is canon in their own series.
Apparently movie trailers can be sued if they don't reflect what's in the movie itself. So Hazbin Hotel might face some consequences if the new series doesn't match the Pilot (which was great).
The videos nitpicking the show make me laugh since every episode reveals more information, I'd leave the "bad writing" criticism till the show is done. Then, if there is bad writing that's not explained, go off lmfao. Till then, I can't fathom being so hypercritical of a show that has far from explained every aspect of itself.
Vivzie has basically gone the Stanley Kubrick route when it comes to show writing; put in minimal effort in the beginning, engaging in as much willful obscurantism as possible, and then allow the fans to write the show for you. Vivziepop and those working for her did not write either of her shows; you all did.
Pilots rarely become canon and kept. pilots are there to show the the show can be. look at ricky and morty. the pilot for that was different. same for steven universe. same for every pilot made. I never understood why people got so angry when you mention this though.
this is probably just me, but I don't really like vaggie's redesign. to me she looks to........ well kept if that make sense. idk I just think that her old outfit fit her personality better. and I'm not sure on the new voice acters but I'm sure that they have their reasons.
I think everyone should understand that things are going to change when they're making a full series.
Absolutely, 100%
Yeah especially since if you try to make a show funded by a television company, they’re gonna wanna change some things
I think you underestimate how many of these people are children who don’t know any better
I feel its best to assume that, besides the designs, the pilots are canon-there's been characters voiced by different people over the course of a shows run before. Plus, the circus outright confirms the scene with Blitzø crashing Stella's party happened, so that's another indicator.
Also, I feel anything that isn't in official media shouldn't necessarily be considered canon unless proven otherwise. So no Pentious fixing his egg bois toys or Alastor being a disciplinarian yet fair parent to any kids he finds until we see that in universe.
Also, feel whatever happens in episode 8 when it releases should be considered canon.
Yeah I don’t get why people think that a recast decanonizes something (in both animation and live-action). A good example of this is Daario Naharis in Game Of Thrones. He was introduced in season 3 played by Ed Skrein but then recast in the next season being played by Michiel Huisman instead. That doesn’t mean that everything before season 4 is no longer canon, it just means that a character got recast
@@TMK411 That's an even better example than any animated show, I'd say. Admittedly, I didn't watch GOT, so I didn't think of bringing it up.
It’s going to be weird not hearing the voices of Michael and Stamper as Angel Dust and Sir Pentious as well as others, but I have no doubt that whoever the new actors are will do great it’ll just take some getting used too
@Eliminemos a Davis Stevens I heard somewhere that Angel’s voice is meant to be similar to Yakko’s from The Animaniacs, which Michael already did pretty well so I’d imagine the new voice would be similar but only time will tell
We’re probably going to go through the same phase as we did when Stolas & Millie got a voice change, where it’ll be surprising to hear a completely different voice than what we’re used to, but eventually we’ll warm up to it.
@@sweetpea2604 to be fair I personally never got used to Millie’s accent it’s just not as sweet southern sounding whereas the new voice actor sounds more aggressive and really strong in the voice like They are both great voice actors don’t get me wrong it’s just when you get used to one voice sometimes it just will never be the same like Stolas honestly wasn’t such a huge change and I actually liked his new voice way better just not Millie’s tbh
Agreed, I initially HATED Millie and Stolas' new voices, but they fit perfectly now and are wonderful. Stolas' voice isn't the best singer tbf (ep 2 song was great, recent one not as much) but it's charming regardless -- I sing the newest song all the time even with my issues with said song. I'm excited to see what the new VA cast has to offer for Hazbin.
The Italian and French dubs of Angel aren't that bad at all despite the fact they don't sound exactly like Michael. so I suppose there can be some range between acceptable and not acceptable, though some people are used to Michael and claim him as the most Angel of Angel voices. we'll just have to wait and see, on the bright side I have faith they wouldn't screw this crucial part of the show from day 1 and give him a voice generally everyone would like.
2 years ago when I was first introduced to this I would’ve never expected this series went this deep.
I’ll be honest I kind of miss the simple episodic approach it had. It’s not that good but it sounded super fun, and at least didn’t have a bunch of plot holes.
Pilots are basically a creator’s way of throwing an idea onto the table and asking if people are interested in seeing it developed further. They’re not meant to be perfect, with every bit of the story shown within it. This doesn’t mean that people don’t put any effort into creating pilots. It just means that you shouldn’t be surprised by how different a series is compared to the original concept shown in the pilot.
Let’s also not forget the issue of fans ignoring facts about characters because it gets in the way of their headcanon. A good example of this would be with Alastor, people make him out to purely be a goofball and crack dad jokes whenever he can, when he’s actually a diabolical unpredictable monster, and people saying he’s gay for Angel Dust when I’m pretty sure he’s been confirmed to be AroAce. Usually there’s nothing wrong with doing stuff like this if it’s just between you and maybe some close friends, but the Hazbin/Helluva community does it to the point where it becomes toxic (especially since they like to put people down if they don’t agree with a certain headcanon, seeming extremely desperate to try and make their headcanons canon, and like you said, not respecting things have changed and are continuing to change
I have headcanons that I love, but I am always ready to change them based on the actual canon. I know it's inevitable, but I can only hope there isn't an uproar about other people's headcanons not being in Hazbin when the show does come out.
Though one could argue that's happened already
This is some extensive research.
Vivziepop has really evolved her idea to what now is a massive hit towards two shows that are set in the same location but have different stories to tell.
Quit being everywhere, Jesus Christ.
There is this fandom wiki that I found, and I don’t think it spreads fake information because it definitely have information for HazbinHotel and Helluva Boss also other fandom‘s like My Little Pony friendship is magic
3:35 *plays pigstep*
Every Minecraft player within 5 miles radius: I have been awakened
This is some extensive research. Great job!
With the pilot not being canon definitely explains why Charlie has red pupils instead of the black ones she had in the pilot, along with having morningstar as her last name, and how Sir Pentious and the remaining Egg Bois are still alive
I swear if they say Helluva boss isn’t canon to hazbin hotel , I’m gonna punch a hole in the wall
That's a little _too_ excessive, sir!
How I view pilots:I consider them Canon unless the show says otherwise
Case in point: Blitz crashing in on Stella’s tea party.
Tbh I expected that from Hazbin Hotel the most, so I said "well, time to forget everything" and done, no crying, no sweat, just getting excited for the series :7
What I’m really interested in is how the relationship between Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss will look like in the future.
That is to say, will there be consistency (in lore etc.) between the two? Or will Hazbin Hotel have to steer clear of connections between its sister show because it’s going to be airing officially vs. Helluva Boss, which is web serial made primarily by freelancers?
Food for thought, I guess.
I AM CANNON ! 🥂
~Alastor
🗿🍷
Alastor X Charlie ❤❤❤
I love the Don't Starve music. Perfect choice!
Tomar actually does do a voiceover for a few of Viv's merchandize videos. Both he and Stamper have done official voice work in the past and those merchandize videos were a good indicator that he may still be Tom Trench.
The way he keeps saying stolass lol
Oh this reminded me of a Helluva Boss review, don’t remember who made it but there was a part where the guy talked about “inconsistent lore” yet one the key examples they gave was that the show is apparently inconsistent on who the prince of lust is? Even though it’s clearly Asmodeus I guess this guy thought it was Stolas? Like sure he’s a lustful character and a prince but very obviously is not the prince of lust (before you say anything this review came out after Ozzie’s and does mention Asmodeus in this bit). I’m pretty sure he also mentioned another character being “referred to as the prince of lust” but I don’t remember who that was
Well done on the analysis.
I would love to see more videos like this to go deeper into the series
Man who else is ready fo helluva boss season two episode three
Me
It took me awhile to get used to the changes but I did the grown up thing and accepted it. Sure there's things I would prefer not be changed but this isn't my show it's my favorite show but not mine I don't control it and have to roll with what they decided to change. Change me not be good sometimes but we can all adapt find some good in it at least eventually
I should mention that the actors union doesn't prevent any voice actor from hired into a union project, meaning the pilot voice actors would've come back regardless of their union status.
Definitely. It's because A24 can almost do whatever they want with the show since Vivziepop gave them the rights of the show and the characters. I'm sure Vivziepop will still have some level of control, but if A24 wants something specific for the show Viv will have to deal with it.
At this point it feels like “cannon” is just how “im right and you’re not”
when writing a fan fiction, it took like 2 chapters before making stolas antagonist
"voice actors will change"
"pilot will not be canon anymore"
When the video uploaded that day
And it drained my soul away
And I wondered
Why I even bothered to try
i know things will always change and is just how is it but still, im a little sad, not gonna affect my entire experience on the release, but deep inside i will feel something is missing, anyway still think it will be great.
Let’s shorten the video:
New title: what is canon in helluva boss and hazbin hotel
Script:
*WHO KNOWS*
I'm honestly okay with most of the changes. The one change I don't like, but will probably get over and get used to is the redesign for Charlie. I do like the change in the hair design, but I like the original color scheme better.
Me too!!!
I like her pilot design, I honestly love how her hairstyle is design, it feels fluffy, but the show design is kinda growing on me.
I'm looking forward to the release of Episode 8, everything else is fine and I'm patient^^
So I’m guessing the show’s pilot and music video were just a fandom? What else could be canon about Hazbin Hotel?
Can't wait for summer 2023!
It came and went
2:12 Stamper, please still be the voice of Sir Pentious, the reason he became a main character in the show is because of your performance in the pilot! Characters are their voices! 😢
I'm pretty sure stamper won't return. He has some drug issues . Also back in December 2021 he was arrested for driving under influence.
@@imovedtoanotheracc It wouldn't be the first time that an actor was able to continue their role despite (among other things) being arrested. I'm aware of the events and I feel the show would earn my infinite respect if it extended an olive branch to Stamper. It's an excellent oppurtunity to champion the theme of redemption that the show is going for. I'm genuinely trying to rationalize his inclusion as a main character in the show; Stamper's performance is what delivers that outcome. To have Sir Pentious without the reason he's now a part of the main cast would be nonsensical.
A character like Angel Dust being replaced makes sense, there are plenty of people that can do a raunchy impression of Yakko. The three best performances from the pilot were Tom Trench, Sir Pentious and Alastor in ascending order. They have unique vocal qualities that are difficult or damn near impossible to emulate.
The thing that has me worried is that characters that have not spoken have voices in fan made stuff. Like Val (i can't spell his name) he has lines, yet he sounds similar in most fan made stuff. What will happen when he does speak, and the fans don't think he sounds right.
9 times out of 10 they're just going to kind of accept it like Millie and stolas
@@touchofcomics1841 I hope so.
The uncertainty of Helluva's Pilot being cannon is a part of the reason I've always been a fan of tiered canon systems. Saying stuff like the Pilots are "level 2 canon" and stuff from the instagrams are "level 3-4 canon" would allow fans to have their cake and eat it too. Things could be used as worldbuilding so long as they don't contradict anything in the tier above, and things in lower tiers could be disregarded entirely if a fan doesn't like them. Everyone wins!
On the subject of not every episode having to be a spectacular lore heavy adventure, I present the majority of the beach city centered episodes of Steven Universe. They can contain lore but are considered not worth watching by some fans due to them being less action and more slice of life
Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss are indeed great shows and even though they are in the same universe, both shows have very different stories. One is about redemption while the other focused on killing targets for their clients, however I still like these shows even though there can be some problems with them. But what is canon about both shows, well we'll see of what this video is about.😈👍
♥️🥂
@@alastor6673 😄😄😄😄😄😄😄
I noticed that Helluva Boss's story premise is supposed to be 'killing targets for clients', yet only Episode 1, and 4 have this as their main focus (Spring Broken has some of it but it goes against the plotline they sometimes struggle for clients). We then see a job briefly in Episode 6, though ending. The rest of the series doesn't even bring up one of the main premises of the show. Going on complex and exciting assissination missions seems more interesting than not, imo.
@@sircharcoalthegoat Wait are you serious?
@@rainbowtoyfunrandomess1982 If you mean my claims, then yeah, if you mean in general, ik Vivzie stated Helluva Boss would focus heavily on relationships between the characters, but it seems at the expense of the main premise of the show. I still love Helluva, it just feels like a soap opera sometimes
Yeah I remember it was one clip in either the pilot or the first episode when loona was watching something on her computer and it was Charlie’s song when she was on the talk show taking about “The Happy Hotel” (which would obviously turn into The Hazbin Hotel)
Actually that's what Charlie wanted to call it alistor called it hazbin which I think I'd the only thing he will ever do that will relieve vaggie
I still can’t believe Viv got Norman Reedus to voice Striker was she a Walking dead fan?
Not that I am aware of. I myself never of him until people pointed that out.
@@jacqueshardin4601 yeah because when you think Norman Reedus you think Daryl Dixon from The Walking Dead
@@fdgod1931 Or for gamers, from Death Stranding
Vivziepop all the videos because it was pretty great animations
i dont care if things change i just like the way alastor is now
"always struggling with the truth, of the life that might have been"-Graeme Cornies
It feels weird to be so early for a video
0:55 if you really look at this hard enough it makes it look like Charlie is saying what Ayy lmao is saying
Edit: well it looked more like it the first time I did it
No matter what, I'll still like Mike Kovach's Angel Dust
Ooh tysm! Who is YOUR fav charater?
In my opinion, I think everything we have heard of the characters and the world, even from the pilot, should be considered non-canon until it has been put into animation or dialog in the final product, unless said otherwise by the writers of the final product, which, of course we will likely hear nothing of until after the first season has been released
All I really expect from the series, is that the show makes things explicit and makes sense in of itself. Because if I have one problem, it's that many facts are implied/hidden in casual dialogue or a background poster.
I'm already feeling like I want to spend all my savings on this show.
There are definitely issues with consistency of both characters and plot in Helluva but that’s to be expected from an indie production that’s been in development for so long with several hands working in it
Ayy LMAO: 'Now, Fanon isn't a problem-'
Me: *Hysterical laughter.* ...Oh, wait, you're serious? Hold on, let me laugh even harder: *Laughs even more wildly*
Wait they replaced ALL the voice actors!?
I knew some of them weren't returning but I thought it wasn't known if some of the others were coming back or not 😭
11:25 The left for dead just made me spit my soup
ive said this before and i’ll say it again, viv and her team looking down at the wiki just cus she saw a troll page added ONE time thus making her generalize the entire wiki community while also expecting her audience to appreciate the hard work her and her team exert (which they do) is extremely hypocritical.
As someone whos been helping with wikis since 2013, The Hellaverse wiki has one of the most active and strict editors and set of rules as far as wikis go, with another example being the Steven Universe wiki, where, in both cases, at least two or more admins are always on the lookout for any possible vandalize edits or trolls in general as well as using sources only cited by the official spindlehorse team as much as possible.
So, i think its really unfair how everytime the fandom wiki is bought up, viv and her crew, extending to the fanbase, just relentlessly laugh at it, ignoring how there is also a community of ppl working their asses off to make it as accurate as possible
Firstly i'd like to thank you for working on the fandom wiki. It's clear you guys put alot of effort into it and i love visiting the wikis to double check my facts when researching a video. It's instrumental in helping to inform the community.
I understand why you're not a fan of vivzie and the community looking down on the wikis but there's a couple reasons for this. The first as i showcased in the video was that in the past the wikis were open to griefing and had little sourcing. One example: twitter.com/VivziePop/status/1091819764702421003?s=20&t=V6CNuTT-V6N8fcarzkY4XA . Vivzie has taken down some tweets regarding the wikis, such as this deleted tweet www.reddit.com/r/HazbinHotel/comments/eux1yg/viv_has_officially_requested_this_of_the_fandom/?context=3
Although the wikis are much better now, the fact that they were of low quality in the past has left a bad first impression on vivzie and some community members so thats why.
Secondly is that in the past the wikis were open to abuse from bad actors. I'll eventually cover this topic in a larger video but in the past the hazbin wiki was a prime target for griefing from people who didn't like the shows. This happened multiple times such as when the show came out and when vivzie got into drama with scott cawthon. The second example in particular was funny because fnaf fans went to the wiki and destroyed pages just because of tweets vivzie made. Like you said it's stricter now and has better security. But because of those past events its left a bad taste in some people's mouths.
And lastly like i briefly covered in the video the roleplay wikis are damaging the credibility of the official wiki. The two fan roleplay wikis i saw feature lots of leaked content which has originated from audition sheets or from vivzie's patreon. The official wiki doesn't have this content however fans have in the past went to these roleplay wikis, taken it as face value and spread the info around. I've seen leaked images originate on these roleplay wikis, get reposted to twitter and then saw them spread. It's incredibly harmful and i'm happy the hazbin hotel fandom wiki doesn't host that content.
I hope i was able to clarify a bit on why members of the community dislike the wiki but i hope the reputation surrounding it improves in the future and i'm sure it will. Thanks for the comment!
I just hope the representation in Hazbin Hotel will be more or less intact in the official release. This shouldn’t be the staple of their character, just something to abide by (i.e Asexual Alastor).
I actually would have loved Stolas as an antagonist, but thats an opinion
Could this mean there will be a crossover
I don't think so, because Helluva Boss was having issues with copyright from Hazbin Hotel because it's not "official" media?
Dunno just remember hearing things
It's going to take some time to get used to Angel's new voice, but I'm looking forward to it
I recently saw a video about Helluva Boss being confusing. Unlike previous videos from detractors since season two began, this person jumped right in to see what all the fuss was about. Although I found a few points I somewhat agreed with, I could help giggling at how ticked and baffled this person was at the show. I do not wish them ill will, but I think they need to understand how silly they sounded.
Spindlehorse is made up of freelancers and both HB and HH are their first big projects. Constructive criticism is necessary for improvement is absolutely essential. But even if these shows are not perfect, that is OK. Besides, there are worse things more deserving of my ire than a silly cartoon about gay demons either being chaotic or bursting into song or whatever else happens.
Looks like in the end the series takes place after the pilot, some things that are status quo in the series are set up or explained in the pilot.
I feel like hazbin is still in development so there's little to determine what is and what isn't cannon. I can't say so with heliva because there was alot that hasn't explored yet and we are already on season 2 for some reason. We missed whole lot from the scrapped episode, maybe it could have explained why loona wants to be a free spirit, and I still don't get why mille and moxie are an item without explaining why there differences in personality compliment each other in there relationship, and we don't know why Moxie is so sensitive even though he's an imp.
I can fully understand the Spindlehorse team are going to change things as the brand and shows evolve - but it's confusing and frustrating when they release details in some episodes that later episodes flatly contradict. Like Octavia claiming her parents only started hating eachother when Stolas cheated - but Season 2 shows that Stella was abusing Stolas long before that.
The way the Spindlehorse crew do worldbuilding is also irritating. There's no fish out of water POV character, so most of Hell is not explored or explained to the viewer. Like the whole Demon Caste system, who the Overlords are, how the Rings/Circles of Hell work, etc. Blitzo's sister has been shown and referred to, but never actually seen. Moxxie and Millie apparently have a child, who has not been mentioned on the show itself.
So many gaps in their worldbuilding exist that are only filled on via tweets, or left vague so fans can theorise. Why does Charlie, the Princess of Hell itself, want to redeem sinners? Why is she given no respect when her dad is the King of Hell? Why is Angel Dust characterised as so perverted and vulgar when he's also a sex slave and victim of sexual abuse? Stuff that doesn't add up or is just not explained.
I don't want to be antagonistic, but I have a few issues with this...
My parents got divorced out of nowhere for me, and I'm thinking much the same happened with Solas and Stella. Octavia likely said that her mom started hating Solas because that's when it became apparent to her that there was issues. They could have hid their fights from her like my parents did.
As for the "Fish out of water", Helluva Boss doesn't need it. It's not meant to explore the world, it's meant to explore the characters and relationships. It's a different kind of story where that's not needed.
And I've never heard anything about M&M having a kid... If they did, theoretically it should be only a year old at max because Ozzies was their "one year marriage anniversary" and would therefore be an infant. What you saw was probably either Fanmade, or meant for the future, or just a joke.
And as for the characters in Hazbin, we won't know until it happens, so you just need to wait to see for yourself. People can be messed up, and often, coping mechanisms are very closely linked to the abuse themselves, so angel dust is actually pretty accurate to a lot of people in his situation. Sexual abuse can be on different ways, and we don't know the full stretch of his situation yet.
Sorry for going point to point against you, I just felt like maybe your points had been hasty.
i hope the pilot doesn't get retconned and have it's lore retconned PLEASE!!!
I think the best way to make a pilot not canon is to very directly rewrite the pilot on episode 1.
The first episode of Helluva Boss very clearly continued from the pilot for better or worse on what they want to change.
This debate wouldn't exist if episode 1 of Helluva Boss gave off a clear first episode vibe.... But it didn't it gave off an 2nd episode vibe continuing from the pilot.
If Hazbin Hotel more or less rewrites the pilot on it's episode 1. Then all debate of what to consider canon from the pilot will be gone.
I hope they do this... It really wouldn't make sense if they didn't even more so since this is picked up by a network.
So if anyone completely new to Hazbin Hotel watches it... If it seems to directly continue from the pilot it's going to confuse them.
Me personally I am attached to the pilot. I loved it... I hate that voice actors are being changed... But... I'm not going to stop that change from effecting me enjoying the show... I plan to clear my head of "what could of been" & just quickly accept all the new voice actors. I'm just going to keep myself always open minded to anything.
To me a pilot gives a bit of information but doesn’t mean it’s going to be canon down the line and we need to be open to new ideas and changes whether that be designs or stories or even character personalities and they’re character arc and don’t get mad when it does something you don’t like
People need to chill
It feels wrong to be this early
Honestly, I’m kind of over the Hazbin Hotel hype from 2019. Maybe it’s cos it took so long to become an official series or cos I’m more invested into Helluva Boss.
1:10 R A T B O I
Stolas wouldn’t be a overlord, because he comes from the ars goetia, a class of powerful demons where stolas is a prince. If he was a overlord then the entirety of the ars goetia would’ve been overlords, but then that wouldn’t work.
2:36
It is canon now.
Hazbin Hotel Pilot - Canon.
Helluva Boss Pilot - Noncanon.
Honestly I feel like people just don't know the difference between a show being different than what they expected it to be vs a show being bad. A show can make choices you don't agree with and still be good & a bad show can make multiple choices you do agree with and still be bad.
Star vs the force of evil wasn't bad because they focused on shipping but cuz they poorly executed literally every plot point after like season 2.
Hazbin isn't gonna be bad cuz changes had to made, it isn't gonna be great cuz it took time. It's going to be what it's gonna be and fans just gonna accept it isn't their fanfic.
I feel like that Viv should maybe confirm things that are canon and not canon to the series for example maybe have the hazbin hotel pilot canon when the show comes out but change a few things and maybe have the lore stay the same but she can add more things about the hazbin universe and maybe some more things to know about the characters and if the pilot confirm not To be canon to the series that would mean the hazbin pilot and everything that happen was just nothing.
Actually I wish that Viv would feature some good human characters. Not for one episode but for multiple. In my opinion it would explain conflict better between humans and demons better. Maybe that God started to ask saint people for help. You know. My idea is about human God agent who got to hell and started to do what God says. I think that it would be cool. What do you guys think?
Unlikely considering how shitty humanity has been to her lately.
True actually. But what about badass guy he is fighting for Earth but he is very “methodical”. But yeah. Most likely not gonna happen considering Viv doesn’t listen to her fans.
You, rock. Lmao.
Ah, i can see you're a well cultured don't starve enjoyer aswell
wait, how does loona not having friends retcon the syphilis thing? its an std u can get it from boinking random ppl
It doesn't retcon it, it just makes it less likely since she is shown to be still awkward and immature when around guys and seems to spend most of her time with blitzo who is over protective and doesn't want her to date. Not to mention she's pretty standoffish.
the vivviverse
So to get things clear, cause I'm still confused (lol)
-how many official/canon comics exist from hazbin hotel and/or helluva boss?
-Are the characters instagram accounts canon? Or even scripted by them? Including the character comments under each others post
-Is Alastor asexual? Since a lot of people made such a drama about it. I'd love him to be still ace
-maybe there is a list with all the canon stuff, so things don't get mixed up
-Can stolas die?
-since imps - including blitzø and fizz - can die, what are Ozzie and stolas going to do? They're in love after all, so they wouldn't just "replace" them, right?
It would help a lot! I love these shows and want to know as much as possible about them :)
- The instagram are not cannon
- Stolas can die from angelic weapon, and andrealphus said to Stella :"eternity is a long time my dear" suggesting that he can't die
- It was a fear of fizz to be "one among the others" for ozzie. It is the main topic of the song "crooked"
Idk about the canonicity sorry
@@PixelKiiwii Thank you for reading it after 2 months
Isn’t it common for the pilot episode to not be cannon in any show, because it was made to be a concept episode to see if people would like the idea of this hypothetical show
*Meanwhile the Don't Hug Me I'm Scared pilot not even releasing and being completely noncanonical:*
I think the fandom needs to be more understanding.
I have been trying to get the position to do allister's voice for two years and they still haven't said anything to me and it's pissing me off can you please help me with my problem my problem
5:44 i see a bliztooo
1:01 Its Blitzø :0
Ничего не понял, но очень интересно
БОЖЕ, ЖИЗА
Bro I heard that Minecraft music 😂 I was surprised in a gud way
I don't know about anyone else, but I feel like the question of what is and isn't canon should be directed at the creative minds behind both shows because at this point, I'm not even convinced that _they_ even know what is canon in their own series.
People obsess over canon, I think they're taking it too seriously. Everything exists in it's own canon.
Apparently movie trailers can be sued if they don't reflect what's in the movie itself. So Hazbin Hotel might face some consequences if the new series doesn't match the Pilot (which was great).
Of hazbin hotel and helluva boss
The videos nitpicking the show make me laugh since every episode reveals more information, I'd leave the "bad writing" criticism till the show is done. Then, if there is bad writing that's not explained, go off lmfao. Till then, I can't fathom being so hypercritical of a show that has far from explained every aspect of itself.
Vivzie has basically gone the Stanley Kubrick route when it comes to show writing; put in minimal effort in the beginning, engaging in as much willful obscurantism as possible, and then allow the fans to write the show for you.
Vivziepop and those working for her did not write either of her shows; you all did.
What's the music at 6:15
Pilots rarely become canon and kept. pilots are there to show the the show can be. look at ricky and morty. the pilot for that was different. same for steven universe. same for every pilot made. I never understood why people got so angry when you mention this though.
The Instagram was never canon
this is probably just me, but I don't really like vaggie's redesign. to me she looks to........ well kept if that make sense. idk I just think that her old outfit fit her personality better. and I'm not sure on the new voice acters but I'm sure that they have their reasons.
i just noised you keep using the don't starve soundtrack
What’s cannon?
*Simple Depression*
🍕
...🍕?