Simple & inexpensive solution to this problem... Use a better filter on the outside. Installed same water heater over a year ago and within a month noticed dust/lint collecting around and on the intake side. After vacuuming up the dust I cut a piece of 1" filter material (same stuff used for washable furnace filters or for stuffing pillows) to cover the intake area. For over 15 months this has worked great at collecting the finer dust before it gets to that factory course filter. Remove and wash as often as you would change (or wash) your furnace-A/C filter. I do it monthly and the inner factory filter remains mostly clean, I see no accumulation on the condenser unit.
Hvac technician here, you would be better off using air conditioner coil cleaner to spray the evaporator coil to clean it off rather then using air. Make sure you have the condensate drain going into a bucket or something, I would recommend doing it every year depending on location.
hvac tech here as well, I am not sure whether to use condensor or evap coil cleaner to be honest, being that it is inside and not outside where I think it should be. I am just learning about this technology, a floor drain is required for this type of water heater, if not available then a condensate pump is needed, which brings another challenge on top of this iced coil, which I would install a pleated filter on top of these useless filters that come with this water heater. I went natural gas tankless a few years ago, has paid for itself in two years. I wonder if this heat pump water heater can be placed outdoors, where I had my tank water heater where now is a tankless water heater. I plan on buying a heat pump water heater, just because everything is going electric, but I plan on making it a remote system or see if one already exists.
@@aureliomendoza522Get a SANCO2 heat pump water heater. It’s expensive as all hell but you’ll never have a problem with it and it heats up like a wild fire. The maintenance on the SANCO2 is just washing down the outdoor unit same as any HVAC condenser you’ve ever worked on.
@@aureliomendoza522I think these are made for interior open air/not in closet. I've seen a cool water exit pipe exiting no different from an AC unit as was shown in a Florida. Not sure how practical these are in the North however where the pipes can freeze.
awesome video. great analysis. constructive criticism here: work on your editing. There is a lot of redundancy..You can at least trim 1-2 mins of excess video by removing the unnecessary or redundant montages.
As others have mentioned, there's a spray called coil cleaner. If you need to "brush" it, there are coil combs. The real conclusion of this video is that there is a compressor coil system that needs to be maintained. Thanks for sharing your experience!
An uniformed buyer has NO WAY of knowing compressor coil maintenance is required until it fails, because these facts ARE NOT MENTIONED in the sales brochure or even the USER MANUAL. I may buy one, but I'll know in advance what the maintenance entails.
@@joshm3342 The uninformed buyer is uninformed? That's shocking. The coil maintenance and air filter swap out process is outlined in the Use & Care Manual provided with the water heater.
@@tim3172 Coil maintenance is not mentioned in the Use & Care Manual (AP21681 Rev 03) included with my unit. It simply says, "It is recommended to clean the filter on top of the heat pump when 'Clean filter reminder' alert appears. Clean by washing with mild detergent and water. Dry and replace. Remove the filter by lifting up, then replace by lowering back into the filter slot on top of the unit." on page 23 of document. The word "Coil" is nowhere in the document. Additionally, the same manual has instructions not possible for my unit regarding Error A108 'Condensate Blocked: Unclog Line'. In my model, there is no way to inspect the condensate pan as mentioned, without disconnecting service and disassembly of the unit . This level of maintenance is not designed to be done by the consumer. 1. Remove top cover from tank 2. condensate line is clear and 3. If water is present, locate blockage and unlock. 4. Ask customer to where the condensate is being routed 5.
Thanks for the excellent explanation and bringing to light some hidden issues for these units-I hope this results in necessary design upgrades to these units. Thanks again for sharing this!
Maybe someone mentioned this but I didn't read all of the comments. I have the same model and experienced a similar problem. There are three temp sensors (thermistors) in this unit. One on the evaporator, one for ambient temp, and one for compressor discharge temp. All three are used to control the expansion valve which prevents the evap from freezing. If you call rheem they will have you press some sequence of buttons to get the readings from the 3 sensors. If they are out of spec they will send you new ones, pretty easy to install, you are already almost there with the cover off. You could also put an ohm meter across the two wires from each sensor. All three should read about the same. If one is out of range from the other two you know it is bad. Depending on which one fails you will have different issues. In your case, the evap thermistor is likely bad.
Thanks for the video. Another reason to go geothermal. Or if I do get one of these, I'll build a triangle "hut" on top with the two large sides made of furnace filters and a custom cut bottom to fit the opening on top of the unit, to at least significantly delay icing problems and the need for deeper cleaning. Thanks again.
Thanks for the candor - good to know about the limitations of the filter design. Sounds like you may be operating in an extra high particulate area, so I like the other viewer's suggestion of an extra filter stage. Definitely have to keep maintenance cycles in mind with home appliances!
The simple truth is (which I learned the hard way) DON'T ALLOW THE DIRT, DUST AND ANY OTHER DEBRIS TO GET IN THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE. While I was decommissioning the brick chimney, which I didn't need any longer because I had removed the old gas hot water heater, neglected to cover and protect the new heat pump hot water heater. Consequently, some of the dust from the removal migrated through the space in the basement and got sucked into the heat pump coil over the next six or eight months and caused a failure. With parts from the manufacturer and some very careful clean up everything has been running just fine since then. I did put a small furnace filter over the air intake to add some help to the filter that comes with the heat pump.
Took a very specialized class 4 months ago put on by Rheem. They invited 36 of us to Top Golf for training, selling food, drinks and driving range. Very nice selling point with Rebates and incentives. They only require 6” of clearance on top to service the filter. So how is anybody going to service or do a deep coil cleaning? They also told us that they don’t want anyone messing with the heat pump. If it fails , they would just send us a new heater for the first 10 years. Did my first 80 gal install in an outdoor 36” metal shed that I replaced the 75 gas heater. Vented the exhaust outside so it would recirculate the cold air. But with only 6” of required top clearance, it will be impossible to clean. What I might do is caulk the seams of the shed and cut in a good filter on the shed for a simple to change pre filter. Although it will be interesting to see what the factory filter looks like after a few months. For those free standing heaters like in the video. Can a simple pair of panty Hose be draped over the 26” diameter top and be a simple throw away filter? Would like some responses from HVAC pros. I’m a Plumbing pro with 47 years of experience, but hvac is not my thing. Thanks, Rick
Partner, looking at the dust throughout your basement/garage, I think you should take into consideration the environment. The manual does mention that it can lose efficiency if the surrounding area has a lot of particulates. I made a small duct, with a Merv 16 air cleaner so that all air brought in is filtered. The washable filter is like a Merv 4. Also, you should flush out your tank every 3 months, not each year. The system does have design flaws, but with good maintenance it can work effectively for a very long time
What your saying may be fine for those who can do these things on their own. When on a fixed income and not able to perform these maintenance on ones own it is not a good choice. These sound like they are better suited for those who are capable of doing their own maintenance or those who seriously have the money to call a qualified company to come out to do it. Having someone come out every 3 months to flush the tank would be very expensive not to mention if other things were needed. If you have hard water there is another issue to deal with.
@@user-pp4wb6ub2o It sounds like the complete opposite... it sounds like you can't afford to continue using a money sapping solution and need something that will save you money month after month.
@@dus10dnd It would seem you assume things without knowing things. My bill is just fine, very low. My water heater on the other hand is on its last legs, hence shopping around. Don't assume until you have all the facts.
@@user-pp4wb6ub2o No, I assumed absolutely nothing. I used only the information that you clearly provided. You talked about a fixed income and not being able to handle things. If that's the case, then you can't afford to not improve your routine expenses. And that isn't a judgement statement... if there is anyone out there that can't decide to never work again, they're not really in a position to be frivolous with expenses. Perhaps acting like you've got the answers and a pedestal if you can't even remain consistent in your statements.
I was seeing reduced efficiency this winter about 13 months of ownership. I started receiving A108 error codes on the app. Getting errors about drain issue. The condenser was icing up after long periods of use. Called Rheem and shared the information and they sent me a new evaporator sensor. I installed it and that error and icing up was much less. About 2 weeks ago after upgrading the EcoNet 6.x app I started getting A105 errors and performance errors. Called Rheem again and they sent a AP18087 - NTC THERMISTOR and replace the one on the evaporator. The run times of the compressor was cut by at least half the time and the errors have stopped. It is using less electricity again like it was before fall. I definitely recommend calling Rheem the parts for my 50 gallon tank they replaced for free. I just had to do the work.
Sounds just like mine I started having problems at 11 months and now nonstop issues Now mines leaking constantly And this thing never shuts off in energy mode So who knows how long this system will work
I want to thank you for both videos. I was researching on if to get a heat pump water heater, someone was going to gift me one. I have not heard anything about hard water & these systems and am assuming that to be another issue. Now I need to figure out how to say no thank you for this generous offer. More people need to do videos about things (cons) that are not discussed any place. Keep up the good work.
Is it possible to spray foam condenser cleaner like that for an HVAC outside condenser and rinse it down? Meaning all of the dust and impurities get washed into a tray and out of the condensate tube?
I wonder if it would be possible to fashion some sort of "pre-filter" where the air intake is outside the lid to capture most of the dirt. Something like air filters we have in the home AC air handler.
I saw the potential for this issue when I installed mine. I made a large dome cap for my water heater out of two large washable HVAC filters. I used aluminum stock and riveted a frame together. After a year of service while replacing my sacrificial anode with a powered anode ( you should do that by the way), there was no noticeable buildup of dust on the coil. Once a month I hose out the washable filter while also replacing my HVAC filter. I like wood working and I set my table saw right next to my Rheem hybrid. Not exactly dust free friendly.
@@MichaelDinsmore I am having no issues at all. I like being able to control and monitor it from my phone. Averaging about 2 kw hours of electric usage per day.
Awesome video thanks, I installed my Rheem Proterra 80 gallon about 16 months ago, and found my coil starting to ice up today so it's currently running in electric mode. I thought that perhaps it had gotten low on refrigerant, I hadn't considered that dust was starting to clog the coil. I'll pop the top off of mine and get a better look/ clean it out. As long as that fixes the icing, I'll be building a sheet metal adapter to go on top of it so that I can run a standard HVAC pleated filter.
The refrigerant is a closed cycle. It won't get low on refrigerant unless, and this is very unlikely, you have a leak, in which case you'd need to repair the leak.
@@kenjohnson6208 yes of course, in saying that I was implying that the unit could be faulty and slowly leaked to the level that the coil was freezing. I was of course hoping that's not the case. First thing I'll do is pop the top and vacuum off the coil.
@@jamesphillips2285 If it is a pleated filter, a 4" WILL have less resistance. I've modified my furnace to be able to use 4" filters and they are MUCH less noisy.
Great vid. Good example for homeowners that they need to fully understand the mechanics of their home and everything that makes it function. I was looking into one of these and its too much work to make it work.
I have one too and I call Rheem about it, they were very nice to send new upgrade parts. The thermistors were bad and the control panel was upgraded too I’ll install them today we’ll see how it works
Also, is flushing really required since this isn't a traditional water heater with a gas burner on the bottom? I figure if the hot water is where the heating elements are (middle and top) as well as the coil around the tank?
Is the top cover the ONLY air intake? Perhaps an outer PRE-FILTER could be rigged to prevent fine dust entering the coils (without restricting air flow).
Not to get too technical and it doesn’t negate your point but the heat exchanger you’re looking at is the evaporator , not the condenser. The condenser is what is heating your water. Now to your problem. If you look at the “filter”, the space where the air passed isn’t much bigger than them space between the evaporator fins. Since many homeowners are very lax with filter maintenance, making the filter finer would clog the filter faster creating the same problem you’re having. Think of the standard mesh filter on an ac return line. It traps most of the dirt but the finer dust passes through and will be =come trapped to the most coils of the evaporator and decrease the heat transfer ability and increase the pressure drop across the coil which will also decrease your air flow further aggravating the problem. I’m not disagreeing with your claim of a design issue gut let’s look at the consequences of a more ‘beefy’ design. The fix would the a heftier filter to catch more particulates in the air. That would require a larger fan (higher horsepower). Filter changes would be more frequent and costly. I use a finer filter of my a/c return duct but change more frequently. You could do the same by placing a fine filter cloth that doesn’t restrict air flow too much and replace monthly, especially since you said you burned wood and have a more dusty environment anyways ..Some energy savings efforts are more costly in maintenance. Remember, to change that additional filter media regularly or it could cause other issues. Also, periodically shutdown the unit and allow the frosted coils to melt and dry (hair dryer?). Then use a vacuum hose with either a crevice tool or brush tool to CAREFULLY clean the fins being careful not to bend any more fins. Regarding the bent fins. Those few fins have little effect on system operation mainly due to their location. However, knowing this, care should be taken in replacing the factory filter.after cleaning.
Wood can be dirty. One potential fix that might help is to put a furnace filter on a box fan. This can also be put on a timer. Getting dirt out of the basement and creating a more purified environment is something you reference as a possibility. HVAC coil cleaner helps. It is all extra work and drama. The box filters can get expensive. I like to take them outside and blow them back periodically with the leaf blower. (This extends filter life, I have also washed and rinsed them successfully. Depends a little on the filter; but one can do this to be frugal. Particularly, I like to use the really high quality HVAC filters to get a cleaner environment in the air. To me, filtering the air down there seems easier and cheaper, with a box fan filter than taking the unit apart. Thanks for the info.
I purchased a similar GE GeoSpring Heat Pump water heater back in 2016 and it started throwing fault codes 6 months after the extended 5 yr service warranty ended. Bradford now covers these as GE no longer sells this type of heat pump water heater. I just replaced the fan and Bradford sent the part for free (10 years parts) but, again labor is NOT included. Literally 1 month later it throws a FF code and stops working again. Now it looks more serious and unfortunately nobody works on them. My HVAC guy sniffed it looking for a leak, but couldn't find it and he said the evaporator coil looked very rusty (this is located in a clean conditioned space) and said unfortunately they don't work on water heaters. I called over a dozen hot water heaters service companies and plumbers in around Atlanta and no luck and Bradford doesn't have a support/ service list. So looks like this is now going to be a standard electric heater until it that stops working. Highly recommend not buying one of these and just buy a Rheem Marathon.
No dude, it should never ice over, your evaporator fins have a thermostatic temperature sensor that either fell off or is defective, all ac units or heat pumps have them, they cycle the compressor off to keep the evaporator fins from freezing
lots of people don't think about filters on lots of things, the second this video started I immediately saw the dust and knew where this was going, about a decade or so back I moved into my moms old house after she moved to Florida, her old house had humidity issues in the basement and she had one of those roll around dehumidifiers, I noticed it sucked tons of power (400+ watts) and I didn't much like paying the power bills that was causing so I decided to look into it and see if there was anything messing with it's efficiency, I pulled out the filter screen, it had a 1/4"+ thick layer of crap on it, like a lint trap in a dryer if you went 10 loads or more without cleaning it, I told her and my sister that had lived in that basement in her teens, neither knew there was a filter, they had gone YEARS without cleaning the thing.
Good idea on the additional filter. I understand the issue here however the unit is undersized for the amount of people using hot water. Unit is designed for 3-5 people using hot water. The video shows a pretty dusty environment. Due to the increased load, which makes the unit run a long time, the filter should be cleaned more often. Maybe once a month. Keeping the coils clean is paramount for getting the highest efficiency from this heat pump.
I am about to purchase a HPWH for location in my garage. My plan is to make a cardboard inlet plenum cube using multiple conventional furnace filters, and duct tape to the HPWH inlet.
You are exactly correct. My Rheem Hybrid is 3 years old and am having the a108 code. I called tech support and told me to do just what you said. These are high maintenance compared to other tanks. I had a oil fired H W tank for 25 years and never touched it until it started leaking, then replaced with this. Dont think I'll do that again !!!
Do an ice bath test on your evaporator inlet and outlet sensors and check resistance @ 32°. I have already replaced evaporator inlet sensor and have spares just in case. The sensors are not that expensive and that maybe the higher failure rate. The evaporator inlet sensor is subjected freeze/thaw that causes moisture to infiltrate between the wire and epoxy entering the sensor thus effecting the resistance. I have spliced in higher quality sensors that have similar resistance/temp values with success but only with short term time frame. Currently using OEM replacement, so far so good.
Thank you. You have done everyone a service by pointing out the additional maintenance required by these types of water heaters. All water heaters, regardless of type, require annual maintenance. So to say that no one will be checking the health and welfare of their heater, says more about the laziness of the consumer than about the design of the heaters. Much of this work can be done by the consumer, however if you don't want the hassle, there are plenty of HVAC and Plumbers out there that will do the work for you. Usually runs about $250 a year for the service. But either way, you as the consumer are ultimately responsible for maintaining your appliances.
That’s the first on point response I’ve seen yet and couldn’t agree with you more than what was said. If the consumer purchases a heat pump water heater from their local big box retailer and installs it themselves then they should have done more homework to fully understand all the pros and cons of installing such a product. The big box retailer is not a professional distributor therefore the kid working in that department is also in no position to give professional advice on such an item other than what bay it’s stocked in. A licensed and experienced professional would have explained all the pros and cons between various types of water heating technologies to make an informed decision on which way to go. Should have sported for the SANCO2, all problems solved other than the cost of equipment would most likely turn them away.
3 months ago, Rheem, held a very nice training session for 37 of us at Top Golf. They stressed that they don’t want us plumbers to mess with the heat pump. They would just provide us with a new heater if it failed. Of course labor is on the consumer. What’s interesting is they only require 6” of clearance on top as per the manual. So how do they expect anyone, pros included to be able to do the tear down and cleaning like shown on the video. In California, gas is being phased out for new construction, and electric “Thankless” heaters are not an option as we don’t have nuclear power to supply the 120+ amps required for a small Thankless electric heater.
Good video alot of insight, I have a the same type but a 40 gallon I installed in 2017, I have had zero issue until today I got the code saying condensate drain clogged. I open top clean drained still got code. Just ordered a new sensor. I would recommend getting a low power HVAC press washer they are used to clean coils I have a mini split and trust me it has just enough power to feel clean the coils. I have even used to clean the cars ac coils. Being in Florida I like to keep the ac stuff going. You are correct no one will tell you this stuff. I have a guest home also I am thinking about replacing the element with a sermgued heating elements that's powered by solar from Missouri Solar and Wind Company. I would also add a. 1 inch hvac filter on top of your in a dusty area to add extra protection.
I would think that one could use a soft brush attachment on a vacuum cleaner that would clean this up. Anytime you're using moving air across coils this will be an issue ...
THANK YOU! Your right. Even AO Smith tech support can't supply a .pdf print out of those interiors - and the manual shows NOTHING. ***** Do you know anything about the "condensate pan" located between the fan and the external condensate hardware (the manual screw-in piece) ?? I'm getting TINY DRIPS FROM THE TINY OVERFLOW SLOT....
Your experience is interesting. I’ve had an AO Smith 50gal hybrid in my garage for 9½ years now and have never had any issue like this. I looked at the evaporator on my unit after watching your video and its clean. Most of my neighbors also have AO Smith units of varying sizes and they have never encountered this issue. Considering the typical operating savings a hybrid offers, which is 1/5 the cost of others, even if you had to hire someone to clean this brand, you’re coming out ahead.
Quick summary. 1. Grossly inadequate filter, pretty common in hvac equipment. 2. Dirty environment for equipment that needs a clean environment. Either make the entire basement a clean space with filtered air, or go to Menards and find a merv 13 pleated furnace filter a minimum of 2” thick, take the filter and the top to your water heater to a sheet metal shop and have them fabricate a piece that will fit snugly over the top with a frame to hold the filter.
What is the room temp and humidity? Hot water for 9 people might be tough as I bet they expect it to stop for a while to defrost. It’s like a heat pump and if that room gets too cold and wet it’s never going to defrost. But I agree that filter is poor. I’d want to reverse the fan so I could put a 4 inch MERV 13 filter in front of what is labeled outlet. Sure I’d have build a box for it but it would be easy to get to. And air should only have one way in so less bypass contamination.
I have the same water heater, i was a hvac technician 20 years ago. I installed this water heater 2 years ago and I was so disappointed with the built quality. Today I swapped a new unit under warranty. It pretty sure it look like this unit is low on refrigerant just like my unit. Don’t buy any Rheem heat pump water heater until they change the design and quality
Thanks for the info, I was looking for this video because I just realized my coils were frozen. My wife told me something is beeping in the basement, I don't have the application connected but the system lets you know something's wrong. I looked inside the fan and saw a big block of ice in the coil, Thanks God for this video. If not, I would've had to call somebody to beat me for a couple of hundred when I could do the job myself. And the only reason I think this problem is happening is because my basement is cold, Then you have the fan blowing cold air all the time So eventually it's going to freeze up.
Home HVAC systems have the same problem. The cooling fins need to be cleaned at least every two years (better every year). Home refrigerators can last decades because they use coils without cooling fins (but they do benefit from cleaning the coils).
That's not the condensor it's inside the tank it's shedding the heat into the water. It's the evaporator. That also isn't being caused by dust, although admittedly, it's not helping the problem. That's either being caused by low freon or a failed/failing expansion valve. If the valve is sticking closed, it'll cause low freon pressure in the evaporator, high pressure at the valve. Which in turn will start to freeze regularly depending on conditions. Low freon does the same, keeps the evaporate from filling, causing it to freeze over. If the evaporate can't fill it, it can't properly exchange the cold air into the environment, causing it to hold lower Temps and freeze. Bad poor performing fan can have a similar effect, but usually you'll see that on a visual inspection easily.
They installers under warranty couldn't fix mine but the error suggested it's either the expansion valve or low freon. Ours also trips a breaker which is odd because it's a 400w heatpump + 1.6kW e-heater, this is on 240v 16A breaker I'm pretty sure.
You should pull the Alternating Current heating element, at least one of them if there are two, and install a DC heating element and hook solar panels to it.
We got this thing before I put up a single panel. And as the video title says it works great till it doesn't. Just something that the manufacturer doesn't come out up front with.
If I installed one of these I would probably use the duct kit and install an inline filter box with replaceable filters. That filter that is built in is a very poor excuse for a filter. I'm very intrigued by these water heaters but I'm really not sure if the math works out to actual real world savings.
Funny, that most videos on UA-cam only talk about how good they are, don't talk about the downsides. Because, way too much money made selling/installing them. Most, don't know or care. I work on them almost every day. Keep in mind, Rheem will not always mail you parts. They use too but now they cant. And when you have to find and buy them, parts are very high. Then add labor cost. These pretty units are built to sell, not to last.
Put a hepa filter on the intake. This will keep your condensor clean. Although the dirt reduces evaporator efficiency and essentially insulates it I don't think that would be your cause of ice. Does the unit have a defrost thermostat on the condensor that you can see? Also that "air filter" is really not shit. its hardly even considered a filter. maybe merv 1
If this is in a closed garage, that's your problem if you do not have an exhaust duct on the tank. As the cold air gets released into the closed garage it begins to drop the ambient air temperature. When that happens it is slowly reducing the temperature differential in the system causing frost to form, of course this will be more apparent during the cooler months. The intake air is now too cool and have barely and heat to pull from the air. This setup without an exhaust duct is extremely inefficient.
thanks, was all excited, then saw your video and knowing us (like furnace filter gets changed when furnace doesn't work anymore)... so yeah, we ain't gonna do the maintenance.
I have a suggestion: If it's possible, I would use a car engine air filter and run all the intake air through it and possibly not even have to bother with the internal air filter which you say rests against the coil (and is damaging it by taking it in and out). Again, I have no idea 'how' the air gets in there so it might not even work, but if there's a way, it would keep things very clean. Cheers.
Nu Calgon makes a line of spray foam cleaner for the condenser coil.But he made a good point if you don’t do some annual Maintance change air filter like on a HVAC system. Then you may have major components like compressor , ECM fan motors, PSC fan motors, sensors , control boards, refrigerant leaks, can cause expensive failures. At Best if people perform Maintance on the hot water heater the equipment could last up to 15 years. But as we all know they just don’t make things that last any not like your parents refrigerator might have lasted 25 years and is still running but it doesn’t have a place or look good modern kitchens today that sort of thing .
Hmmm, I find this interesting. My brother owns a 50 year old window air conditioner that has a cheap 1/4 inch sponge filter on the front of the evap coils. It’s been used off and on over the years and the coils have never gotten caked up with dust. How is that different then what you have here? I mean I see in the video the dust accumulation but I can figure out why the coils on your unit with its’ filter being used still end up getting caked up?
You know an idea would be to vacuum off the coils every 2 or 3 years when you end up changing out the anode. You have to pop off the top anyway to change the anode so you might as well vacuum the coils too. Anodes should be changed out this often. When changing out the anode use a hammer wrench- like the kind they use in garages to change tires. I did and it loosened up the anode in about 20 seconds.
Mine is in a closet with a duct coming in from the garage. Definitely will have to figure out a way to filter my intake ducting. Thank you for the PSA on the bad design.
So as I listen to your very informative video , I have decided to NOT purchase the stand alone heat pump water heater. The motivation for you to buy a heat pump water heater is saving money correct? You can easily calculate the running cost for a gas or electric water heater (installation costs vary by region) And consider that you don’t need to do anything to them once they are installed. What you have done with this informative video is provided me the actual difference’s in cost (materials & labor(mine or contractor) that I would need to consider. For myself, the fact that I would need to worry about all the additional items you have pointed out, There are not enough cost savings to warrant a change to heat pump type water heater. Less Stress also has a value that is often overlooked.
I'll wait to purchase one when the companies start putting better intake filtration and possibly through the wall exhaust kit like a dryer vent type system to remove cold air and possibly reduce decibels
When I was looking into these: the AO Smith one had a remote exhaust kit available (in case you wanted to install in a closet or something) Not sure about the Rheem.
Gosh! You've got the right mind set about this technology. People are so eager to sell you the latest greatest that they don't appreciate the extent of which the technology limits will penalize them. I've seen very nice fridges tossed on the curbs because of that same issue. The condensor radiator gets too dirty and insulate itself from the dust buildup. In your case it's the evaporator that gets dirty because it's the one in open air flow. Nevertheless it clogs the fins and with the defrost cycles the moisture makes the dirt clings even more so. Cleaning those fins with a brush is very difficult and often bends the fins making the process even more difficult By the way, the more efficient way to get the heat to the water would have been to have the coil immersed totally into the tank. Another better idea would have been to borrow the "mini split" idea of using a long refrigerant hose to remotely place the evaporator where it cool a room replacing or helping your air conditioning, thereby increasing even more your energy saving. In such a case the water heater process or re-design could be rethought for ease of cleaning, preferably with a jet of hot water stream, sort of a waterpick system... Fortunately I did not bite into that technology. I got a 40 gal Marathon water heater for $50 on the Craigslist and connected the red and blue wire to the 120VAC instead of the 240VAC from my solar hybrid inverter and heat it at half power so that the plastic tank inside last longer. It takes about 6 hours to heat the whole tank to scalding temperature. I wrapped the tank with 8 inch of thermal foam insulation because the tank is in the backyard. So now, in the winter it helps keep the water hot for 3 days without problems. Once hot, it really takes only 1 hour or power a day - around noon - to maintain its heat at the same level. I paid off my investment within the same month as I got rid off my gas heater and my energy bill all together.
That’s not a condenser it’s an evaporator therefore it will not cut out on high head pressure because of a dirty filter or coil. It would cut out on low evaporator pressure due to restricted airflow. This is just normal maintenance same as the central HVAC equipment that everyone ignores until it breaks or causes issues.
That is not the condenser. It’s an evaporator. What is your ambient temperature? Buy yourself a few cans of Nu-Calgon Foaming Evaporator Coil Cleaner. Hook up a hose to your hot water side of a sink or washer connection. Then do annual cleanings of the evaporator coil. Flush all dirt down the drain. Then remove that junk plastic screen filter (probably similar to all the window, bangers and DIY mini splits that everybody installs). Fabricate a wooden frame to fit with foam weather strip to top. Install 1/4” foam air filter material to wooden frame. Spray filter with filter spray. Now you have an air filter that will collect more dirt, i.e. more surface area. You will have an air filter that you can remove the box take it outside spray some degreaser on it and gently spray it out with a garden hose every three months. Reapply filter spray.
1st off, thanks for the explanation of how this unit works. I personally do not like this design as it means that you are double heating. What I mean by this is that in the cold months, you hare heating the air in the basement first with one source, then that air is being used to heat the water in this tank. If I'm going to do that, I'd just get an indirect HW tank and feed it from my primary source. I'd add a secondary source for the summer - i.e., solar pool heater, and I'd be done. If I'm looking for a heat pump water heater - the heat pump portion should be on the outside of my house/building - this way I'm not double heating. The problem will be when it gets below freezing, then I'll need another way of heating the water. Some questions - Where is the insulation on the hot water output- I'd have at least 1" of neoprene ? Where is the hot water siphon to prevent the hot water rising in your piping? Some additional comments: I'd have some Webstone flanges w/Unions for easy servicing on both the hot and cold water feeds. I'd insulate the cold water pipes as well as they will pick up heat from the room.
@@nexusly6720 It has a thermometer on it with a display inside the house, if the temp goes over 190 we let some water run to cool it off in the event we made the fire too big.
I had a heat pump ac + furnace in a camper Michigan has lots of moisture and that caused it to freeze up in the summer heat pumps work better in dryer conditions made shure with this last camper it has a gas furnace and a rooftop ac they work flawlessly 👌👌
I think when the "freon" is low, the temperature on the coil drops below freezing. The same thing happens in central AC units, where the coil completely freezes over. When the "freon" level is correct, the temperature on the coil should not drop below 36 degrees F, but it goes lower when lower coolant levels.
I have this idea to make a box out of furnace hepa filters, then attach it to a heat pump water heater. I have seen this done in a factory before and think it will keep the air cleaner. I still have a regular electric water heater. That's my plan when I replace it.
You describe a corsi-rosenthall box. You may want to look into a duct kit for installing in closed spaces like closets: [you] can then run the input hose to your filter box. Replacing MERV-13 filters several times a year will also eat into your energy savings though. You could use a (better than stock) washable filter if you remember to clean it like every 2 months.
Thank you I was wondering about this kind of technology. I don’t want anything that requires a lot of maintenance. I want a water heater that heats water and I can forget about it. I was interested in getting one of these. I’ve now changed my mind just like electric vehicles this technology is not ready for prime time
@@GrindinD : Which may have even more dust, pollen, etc. ... Better to fashion some sort of pre-filter (from commercially available filter elements) for the air inlet.
I have a smaller unit and after 4 years I am having the same issues ... Clean , clean, clean is the issue and that is going to take more effort .... efficiency comes at a cost and the cost here are at the register and labor to keep the unit running efficiently ... it sucks to pay more and have a more labor hungry hot water heater but that is the cost for efficiency ... I live in the south and I am thinking of adding a solar hot water collector to the system ( direct or non direct system, I am not sure) just to make the system more efficiently ... electric water heater cost more in the long run and electric cost are on the rise as demands increases.... I love the video and I feel your frustration, but efficiency comes at a cost ( not only at the register but maintenance - to be efficient needs to be cleaned more) I had an uncle that told me as a kid long time ago... don't buy things with all the bells and whistles because that is just more things to go wrong with said units ... dishwashers , Washing machines, cars - hybrid ( but I like hybrid engines to recharge my electric system ) Hot water tanks and everything else in life but its all about your desires and your wifes desires ... My wifes sees all the other choices in these things as love for her and I can say it is a waist on money and time but TV pushes these things and we do live in a capitalist society ... so when in Rome , we do as the Rome's do.
Had mine for 4 years now installed in a MN basement, having cats and a dog (lots of hair around) for the last two, same unfinished area as the furnace, only brushing off the filter it came with maybe once a month...NEVER had an issue. Never even had any condensate drain out but there is a dehumidifier right next to it. Only place that gets clogged with dust is right at the bottom where the filter doesn't cover. Looks like you have a very dusty basement which is clogging it up.
He is burning wood to heat home in same basement. Icing is also. A refrigerant and condenser related issue. Also the unit to me is very poor industrial / mechanical design for access filter in my opinion. Profiteroles of air would seem like good retrofit but you would have to account for impedance of fan. I would want factory engineer to come out on this mess.
I didn’t even make it a year when I started having problems with my Rheem water heater from fault and error code constantly popping up to now my unit keeps freezing up and water coming out of the bottom all over my basement floor. Rheem is very easy to get a hold of, but after the one year mark, they will not send anybody out to help repair your system. They just send parts and expect you to install them yourself, some of the diagnosing they have had me done is way beyond most homeowners ability. The only reason I was able to do it is I do have an electrical background I don’t think I would ever suggest or buy another one of these water heaters. Double the money and I haven’t even made it a year and a half and nonstop codes and problems.🤮
Simple & inexpensive solution to this problem...
Use a better filter on the outside.
Installed same water heater over a year ago and within a month noticed dust/lint collecting around and on the intake side. After vacuuming up the dust I cut a piece of 1" filter material (same stuff used for washable furnace filters or for stuffing pillows) to cover the intake area. For over 15 months this has worked great at collecting the finer dust before it gets to that factory course filter. Remove and wash as often as you would change (or wash) your furnace-A/C filter. I do it monthly and the inner factory filter remains mostly clean, I see no accumulation on the condenser unit.
Hvac technician here, you would be better off using air conditioner coil cleaner to spray the evaporator coil to clean it off rather then using air. Make sure you have the condensate drain going into a bucket or something, I would recommend doing it every year depending on location.
hvac tech here as well, I am not sure whether to use condensor or evap coil cleaner to be honest, being that it is inside and not outside where I think it should be. I am just learning about this technology, a floor drain is required for this type of water heater, if not available then a condensate pump is needed, which brings another challenge on top of this iced coil, which I would install a pleated filter on top of these useless filters that come with this water heater. I went natural gas tankless a few years ago, has paid for itself in two years. I wonder if this heat pump water heater can be placed outdoors, where I had my tank water heater where now is a tankless water heater. I plan on buying a heat pump water heater, just because everything is going electric, but I plan on making it a remote system or see if one already exists.
Use Evaporator coil clean, if you get the foamy kind use a wet/dry vac to help get it off along with rinsing it with water
@@aureliomendoza522Get a SANCO2 heat pump water heater. It’s expensive as all hell but you’ll never have a problem with it and it heats up like a wild fire. The maintenance on the SANCO2 is just washing down the outdoor unit same as any HVAC condenser you’ve ever worked on.
@@aureliomendoza522I think these are made for interior open air/not in closet. I've seen a cool water exit pipe exiting no different from an AC unit as was shown in a Florida. Not sure how practical these are in the North however where the pipes can freeze.
awesome video. great analysis. constructive criticism here: work on your editing. There is a lot of redundancy..You can at least trim 1-2 mins of excess video by removing the unnecessary or redundant montages.
I installed mine 3 years ago and I'm now exactly at this point. Luckily i can do this myself, it's still a hassle. Thanks for making this video.
As others have mentioned, there's a spray called coil cleaner. If you need to "brush" it, there are coil combs. The real conclusion of this video is that there is a compressor coil system that needs to be maintained. Thanks for sharing your experience!
An uniformed buyer has NO WAY of knowing compressor coil maintenance is required until it fails, because these facts ARE NOT MENTIONED in the sales brochure or even the USER MANUAL. I may buy one, but I'll know in advance what the maintenance entails.
@joshm3342 they have heatpump only heaters now
@@joshm3342 The uninformed buyer is uninformed? That's shocking.
The coil maintenance and air filter swap out process is outlined in the Use & Care Manual provided with the water heater.
@@tim3172 Coil maintenance is not mentioned in the Use & Care Manual (AP21681 Rev 03) included with my unit. It simply says, "It is recommended to clean the filter on top of the heat pump when 'Clean filter reminder' alert appears. Clean by washing with mild detergent and water. Dry and replace. Remove the filter by lifting up, then replace by lowering back into the filter slot on top of the unit." on page 23 of document.
The word "Coil" is nowhere in the document.
Additionally, the same manual has instructions not possible for my unit regarding Error A108 'Condensate Blocked: Unclog Line'. In my model, there is no way to inspect the condensate pan as mentioned, without disconnecting service and disassembly of the unit . This level of maintenance is not designed to be done by the consumer.
1. Remove top cover from tank
2. condensate line is clear and
3. If water is present, locate blockage and unlock.
4. Ask customer to where the condensate is being routed 5.
Thanks for the excellent explanation and bringing to light some hidden issues for these units-I hope this results in necessary design upgrades to these units. Thanks again for sharing this!
Maybe someone mentioned this but I didn't read all of the comments.
I have the same model and experienced a similar problem.
There are three temp sensors (thermistors) in this unit. One on the evaporator, one for ambient temp, and one for compressor discharge temp. All three are used to control the expansion valve which prevents the evap from freezing. If you call rheem they will have you press some sequence of buttons to get the readings from the 3 sensors. If they are out of spec they will send you new ones, pretty easy to install, you are already almost there with the cover off.
You could also put an ohm meter across the two wires from each sensor. All three should read about the same. If one is out of range from the other two you know it is bad. Depending on which one fails you will have different issues. In your case, the evap thermistor is likely bad.
Thanks for the video. Another reason to go geothermal. Or if I do get one of these, I'll build a triangle "hut" on top with the two large sides made of furnace filters and a custom cut bottom to fit the opening on top of the unit, to at least significantly delay icing problems and the need for deeper cleaning. Thanks again.
I like this approach - an extra filter stage with a more accessible/changeable filter arrangement is a great long-term fix in a dusty environment!
Thanks for the candor - good to know about the limitations of the filter design. Sounds like you may be operating in an extra high particulate area, so I like the other viewer's suggestion of an extra filter stage. Definitely have to keep maintenance cycles in mind with home appliances!
The simple truth is (which I learned the hard way) DON'T ALLOW THE DIRT, DUST AND ANY OTHER DEBRIS TO GET IN THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE. While I was decommissioning the brick chimney, which I didn't need any longer because I had removed the old gas hot water heater, neglected to cover and protect the new heat pump hot water heater. Consequently, some of the dust from the removal migrated through the space in the basement and got sucked into the heat pump coil over the next six or eight months and caused a failure. With parts from the manufacturer and some very careful clean up everything has been running just fine since then. I did put a small furnace filter over the air intake to add some help to the filter that comes with the heat pump.
Took a very specialized class 4 months ago put on by Rheem. They invited 36 of us to Top Golf for training, selling food, drinks and driving range. Very nice selling point with Rebates and incentives. They only require 6” of clearance on top to service the filter. So how is anybody going to service or do a deep coil cleaning?
They also told us that they don’t want anyone messing with the heat pump. If it fails , they would just send us a new heater for the first 10 years. Did my first 80 gal install in an outdoor 36” metal shed that I replaced the 75 gas heater. Vented the exhaust outside so it would recirculate the cold air. But with only 6” of required top clearance, it will be impossible to clean. What I might do is caulk the seams of the shed and cut in a good filter on the shed for a simple to change pre filter. Although it will be interesting to see what the factory filter looks like after a few months.
For those free standing heaters like in the video. Can a simple pair of panty Hose be draped over the 26” diameter top and be a simple throw away filter? Would like some responses from HVAC pros. I’m a Plumbing pro with 47 years of experience, but hvac is not my thing.
Thanks, Rick
They should also make the cover easily removeable and not put a million stupid sheet metal screws on it.
Partner, looking at the dust throughout your basement/garage, I think you should take into consideration the environment. The manual does mention that it can lose efficiency if the surrounding area has a lot of particulates. I made a small duct, with a Merv 16 air cleaner so that all air brought in is filtered. The washable filter is like a Merv 4. Also, you should flush out your tank every 3 months, not each year. The system does have design flaws, but with good maintenance it can work effectively for a very long time
Agreed. Clean that room.
What your saying may be fine for those who can do these things on their own. When on a fixed income and not able to perform these maintenance on ones own it is not a good choice. These sound like they are better suited for those who are capable of doing their own maintenance or those who seriously have the money to call a qualified company to come out to do it. Having someone come out every 3 months to flush the tank would be very expensive not to mention if other things were needed. If you have hard water there is another issue to deal with.
@@user-pp4wb6ub2o It sounds like the complete opposite... it sounds like you can't afford to continue using a money sapping solution and need something that will save you money month after month.
@@dus10dnd It would seem you assume things without knowing things. My bill is just fine, very low. My water heater on the other hand is on its last legs, hence shopping around. Don't assume until you have all the facts.
@@user-pp4wb6ub2o No, I assumed absolutely nothing. I used only the information that you clearly provided. You talked about a fixed income and not being able to handle things. If that's the case, then you can't afford to not improve your routine expenses. And that isn't a judgement statement... if there is anyone out there that can't decide to never work again, they're not really in a position to be frivolous with expenses.
Perhaps acting like you've got the answers and a pedestal if you can't even remain consistent in your statements.
Thanks for sharing just had one installed today. I plan on using a furnace filter or maybe some sort of foam filter over the intake vent.
I was seeing reduced efficiency this winter about 13 months of ownership. I started receiving A108 error codes on the app. Getting errors about drain issue. The condenser was icing up after long periods of use. Called Rheem and shared the information and they sent me a new evaporator sensor. I installed it and that error and icing up was much less. About 2 weeks ago after upgrading the EcoNet 6.x app I started getting A105 errors and performance errors. Called Rheem again and they sent a AP18087 - NTC THERMISTOR and replace the one on the evaporator. The run times of the compressor was cut by at least half the time and the errors have stopped. It is using less electricity again like it was before fall. I definitely recommend calling Rheem the parts for my 50 gallon tank they replaced for free. I just had to do the work.
Sounds just like mine
I started having problems at 11 months and now nonstop issues
Now mines leaking constantly
And this thing never shuts off in energy mode So who knows how long this system will work
I want to thank you for both videos. I was researching on if to get a heat pump water heater, someone was going to gift me one. I have not heard anything about hard water & these systems and am assuming that to be another issue. Now I need to figure out how to say no thank you for this generous offer. More people need to do videos about things (cons) that are not discussed any place. Keep up the good work.
Is it possible to spray foam condenser cleaner like that for an HVAC outside condenser and rinse it down? Meaning all of the dust and impurities get washed into a tray and out of the condensate tube?
I wonder if it would be possible to fashion some sort of "pre-filter" where the air intake is outside the lid to capture most of the dirt. Something like air filters we have in the home AC air handler.
I saw the potential for this issue when I installed mine. I made a large dome cap for my water heater out of two large washable HVAC filters. I used aluminum stock and riveted a frame together. After a year of service while replacing my sacrificial anode with a powered anode ( you should do that by the way), there was no noticeable buildup of dust on the coil. Once a month I hose out the washable filter while also replacing my HVAC filter. I like wood working and I set my table saw right next to my Rheem hybrid. Not exactly dust free friendly.
Still not having problems having it in the same space as your workshop? Thinking of getting a HPHWH myself…
😂
@@MichaelDinsmore I am having no issues at all. I like being able to control and monitor it from my phone. Averaging about 2 kw hours of electric usage per day.
Awesome video thanks, I installed my Rheem Proterra 80 gallon about 16 months ago, and found my coil starting to ice up today so it's currently running in electric mode. I thought that perhaps it had gotten low on refrigerant, I hadn't considered that dust was starting to clog the coil. I'll pop the top off of mine and get a better look/ clean it out. As long as that fixes the icing, I'll be building a sheet metal adapter to go on top of it so that I can run a standard HVAC pleated filter.
The refrigerant is a closed cycle. It won't get low on refrigerant unless, and this is very unlikely, you have a leak, in which case you'd need to repair the leak.
@@kenjohnson6208 yes of course, in saying that I was implying that the unit could be faulty and slowly leaked to the level that the coil was freezing. I was of course hoping that's not the case.
First thing I'll do is pop the top and vacuum off the coil.
Put a 1 inch furnace filter on top of the unit and get some condenser cleaner
A 4" may have less resistance.
@@jamesphillips2285 If it is a pleated filter, a 4" WILL have less resistance. I've modified my furnace to be able to use 4" filters and they are MUCH less noisy.
Replacing my 17 yo tank water heater, with another gas one seems the way to go at this time. Great video!! Thanks for the honest feedback experience🤙🏽
Great vid. Good example for homeowners that they need to fully understand the mechanics of their home and everything that makes it function. I was looking into one of these and its too much work to make it work.
I have one too and I call Rheem about it, they were very nice to send new upgrade parts. The thermistors were bad and the control panel was upgraded too I’ll install them today we’ll see how it works
Can you post an update video? Did have success fixing the icing by cleaning the coil?
To make a long repeatative video short, check your coil when cleaning filter annually. Use coil cleaner if needed!
You ain’t lying…. Yeesh.
Excellent helpful information , thank you.
Also, is flushing really required since this isn't a traditional water heater with a gas burner on the bottom? I figure if the hot water is where the heating elements are (middle and top) as well as the coil around the tank?
yes, flushing is still required.
My heat pump WH has been running great for 9 1/2 years. It only cost $1130 at Home Depot on close-out and it is saving me $150 per year on elec.
Is the top cover the ONLY air intake? Perhaps an outer PRE-FILTER could be rigged to prevent fine dust entering the coils (without restricting air flow).
Not to get too technical and it doesn’t negate your point but the heat exchanger you’re looking at is the evaporator , not the condenser. The condenser is what is heating your water. Now to your problem. If you look at the “filter”, the space where the air passed isn’t much bigger than them space between the evaporator fins. Since many homeowners are very lax with filter maintenance, making the filter finer would clog the filter faster creating the same problem you’re having. Think of the standard mesh filter on an ac return line. It traps most of the dirt but the finer dust passes through and will be =come trapped to the most coils of the evaporator and decrease the heat transfer ability and increase the pressure drop across the coil which will also decrease your air flow further aggravating the problem. I’m not disagreeing with your claim of a design issue gut let’s look at the consequences of a more ‘beefy’ design. The fix would the a heftier filter to catch more particulates in the air. That would require a larger fan (higher horsepower). Filter changes would be more frequent and costly. I use a finer filter of my a/c return duct but change more frequently. You could do the same by placing a fine filter cloth that doesn’t restrict air flow too much and replace monthly, especially since you said you burned wood and have a more dusty environment anyways ..Some energy savings efforts are more costly in maintenance. Remember, to change that additional filter media regularly or it could cause other issues. Also, periodically shutdown the unit and allow the frosted coils to melt and dry (hair dryer?). Then use a vacuum hose with either a crevice tool or brush tool to CAREFULLY clean the fins being careful not to bend any more fins.
Regarding the bent fins. Those few fins have little effect on system operation mainly due to their location. However, knowing this, care should be taken in replacing the factory filter.after cleaning.
Wood can be dirty. One potential fix that might help is to put a furnace filter on a box fan. This can also be put on a timer. Getting dirt out of the basement and creating a more purified environment is something you reference as a possibility. HVAC coil cleaner helps. It is all extra work and drama. The box filters can get expensive. I like to take them outside and blow them back periodically with the leaf blower. (This extends filter life, I have also washed and rinsed them successfully. Depends a little on the filter; but one can do this to be frugal. Particularly, I like to use the really high quality HVAC filters to get a cleaner environment in the air. To me, filtering the air down there seems easier and cheaper, with a box fan filter than taking the unit apart. Thanks for the info.
I purchased a similar GE GeoSpring Heat Pump water heater back in 2016 and it started throwing fault codes 6 months after the extended 5 yr service warranty ended. Bradford now covers these as GE no longer sells this type of heat pump water heater. I just replaced the fan and Bradford sent the part for free (10 years parts) but, again labor is NOT included. Literally 1 month later it throws a FF code and stops working again. Now it looks more serious and unfortunately nobody works on them. My HVAC guy sniffed it looking for a leak, but couldn't find it and he said the evaporator coil looked very rusty (this is located in a clean conditioned space) and said unfortunately they don't work on water heaters. I called over a dozen hot water heaters service companies and plumbers in around Atlanta and no luck and Bradford doesn't have a support/ service list. So looks like this is now going to be a standard electric heater until it that stops working. Highly recommend not buying one of these and just buy a Rheem Marathon.
No dude, it should never ice over, your evaporator fins have a thermostatic temperature sensor that either fell off or is defective, all ac units or heat pumps have them, they cycle the compressor off to keep the evaporator fins from freezing
lots of people don't think about filters on lots of things, the second this video started I immediately saw the dust and knew where this was going, about a decade or so back I moved into my moms old house after she moved to Florida, her old house had humidity issues in the basement and she had one of those roll around dehumidifiers, I noticed it sucked tons of power (400+ watts) and I didn't much like paying the power bills that was causing so I decided to look into it and see if there was anything messing with it's efficiency, I pulled out the filter screen, it had a 1/4"+ thick layer of crap on it, like a lint trap in a dryer if you went 10 loads or more without cleaning it, I told her and my sister that had lived in that basement in her teens, neither knew there was a filter, they had gone YEARS without cleaning the thing.
Good idea on the additional filter.
I understand the issue here however the unit is undersized for the amount of people using hot water. Unit is designed for 3-5 people using hot water. The video shows a pretty dusty environment. Due to the increased load, which makes the unit run a long time, the filter should be cleaned more often. Maybe once a month. Keeping the coils clean is paramount for getting the highest efficiency from this heat pump.
Thanks for sharing your experience.
I am about to purchase a HPWH for location in my garage. My plan is to make a cardboard inlet plenum cube using multiple conventional furnace filters, and duct tape to the HPWH inlet.
You are exactly correct. My Rheem Hybrid is 3 years old and am having the a108 code. I called tech support and told me to do just what you said. These are high maintenance compared to other tanks. I had a oil fired H W tank for 25 years and never touched it until it started leaking, then replaced with this. Dont think I'll do that again !!!
Do an ice bath test on your evaporator inlet and outlet sensors and check resistance @ 32°. I have already replaced evaporator inlet sensor and have spares just in case. The sensors are not that expensive and that maybe the higher failure rate. The evaporator inlet sensor is subjected freeze/thaw that causes moisture to infiltrate between the wire and epoxy entering the sensor thus effecting the resistance. I have spliced in higher quality sensors that have similar resistance/temp values with success but only with short term time frame. Currently using OEM replacement, so far so good.
Do you maintain your ac unit outside like this?
So I'm just getting one of these so I should replace the anode with an electric one and also add a hepa type filter to the air inlet on top.
My apologies if I missed it, but how old was this install at the time of recording? Thank you for making this video
Thank you. You have done everyone a service by pointing out the additional maintenance required by these types of water heaters. All water heaters, regardless of type, require annual maintenance. So to say that no one will be checking the health and welfare of their heater, says more about the laziness of the consumer than about the design of the heaters. Much of this work can be done by the consumer, however if you don't want the hassle, there are plenty of HVAC and Plumbers out there that will do the work for you. Usually runs about $250 a year for the service. But either way, you as the consumer are ultimately responsible for maintaining your appliances.
That’s the first on point response I’ve seen yet and couldn’t agree with you more than what was said.
If the consumer purchases a heat pump water heater from their local big box retailer and installs it themselves then they should have done more homework to fully understand all the pros and cons of installing such a product. The big box retailer is not a professional distributor therefore the kid working in that department is also in no position to give professional advice on such an item other than what bay it’s stocked in.
A licensed and experienced professional would have explained all the pros and cons between various types of water heating technologies to make an informed decision on which way to go.
Should have sported for the SANCO2, all problems solved other than the cost of equipment would most likely turn them away.
3 months ago, Rheem, held a very nice training session for 37 of us at Top Golf. They stressed that they don’t want us plumbers to mess with the heat pump. They would just provide us with a new heater if it failed. Of course labor is on the consumer.
What’s interesting is they only require 6” of clearance on top as per the manual. So how do they expect anyone, pros included to be able to do the tear down and cleaning like shown on the video.
In California, gas is being phased out for new construction, and electric “Thankless” heaters are not an option as we don’t have nuclear power to supply the 120+ amps required for a small Thankless electric heater.
Good video alot of insight, I have a the same type but a 40 gallon I installed in 2017, I have had zero issue until today I got the code saying condensate drain clogged. I open top clean drained still got code. Just ordered a new sensor. I would recommend getting a low power HVAC press washer they are used to clean coils I have a mini split and trust me it has just enough power to feel clean the coils. I have even used to clean the cars ac coils. Being in Florida I like to keep the ac stuff going. You are correct no one will tell you this stuff.
I have a guest home also I am thinking about replacing the element with a sermgued heating elements that's powered by solar from Missouri Solar and Wind Company. I would also add a. 1 inch hvac filter on top of your in a dusty area to add extra protection.
I wonder if it'd be too restrictive to put a pleated filter over the air intake on top 🤔. That'd provide better filtration if it would work...
I would think that one could use a soft brush attachment on a vacuum cleaner that would clean this up. Anytime you're using moving air across coils this will be an issue ...
THANK YOU! Your right. Even AO Smith tech support can't supply a .pdf print out of those interiors - and the manual shows NOTHING. ***** Do you know anything about the "condensate pan" located between the fan and the external condensate hardware (the manual screw-in piece) ?? I'm getting TINY DRIPS FROM THE TINY OVERFLOW SLOT....
Your experience is interesting. I’ve had an AO Smith 50gal hybrid in my garage for 9½ years now and have never had any issue like this. I looked at the evaporator on my unit after watching your video and its clean. Most of my neighbors also have AO Smith units of varying sizes and they have never encountered this issue. Considering the typical operating savings a hybrid offers, which is 1/5 the cost of others, even if you had to hire someone to clean this brand, you’re coming out ahead.
Quick summary. 1. Grossly inadequate filter, pretty common in hvac equipment. 2. Dirty environment for equipment that needs a clean environment. Either make the entire basement a clean space with filtered air, or go to Menards and find a merv 13 pleated furnace filter a minimum of 2” thick, take the filter and the top to your water heater to a sheet metal shop and have them fabricate a piece that will fit snugly over the top with a frame to hold the filter.
That coil is the EVAPORATOR not the condenser.
You need to install the remote ducting kit if it’s in a dusty area.
Thank you. I installed a merv5 inline filter to the intake of mine to avert this. I hope.
Can we do a ... home extra filter
Can I ask where you are located? Is it a dusty place? Cold climate?
What is the room temp and humidity? Hot water for 9 people might be tough as I bet they expect it to stop for a while to defrost. It’s like a heat pump and if that room gets too cold and wet it’s never going to defrost.
But I agree that filter is poor. I’d want to reverse the fan so I could put a 4 inch MERV 13 filter in front of what is labeled outlet. Sure I’d have build a box for it but it would be easy to get to. And air should only have one way in so less bypass contamination.
I have the same water heater, i was a hvac technician 20 years ago. I installed this water heater 2 years ago and I was so disappointed with the built quality. Today I swapped a new unit under warranty. It pretty sure it look like this unit is low on refrigerant just like my unit. Don’t buy any Rheem heat pump water heater until they change the design and quality
Only readon id get one is for it to double as hvac helper for the basement plus as a dehumidifieir more or less..
Thanks for the info, I was looking for this video because I just realized my coils were frozen. My wife told me something is beeping in the basement, I don't have the application connected but the system lets you know something's wrong. I looked inside the fan and saw a big block of ice in the coil, Thanks God for this video. If not, I would've had to call somebody to beat me for a couple of hundred when I could do the job myself. And the only reason I think this problem is happening is because my basement is cold, Then you have the fan blowing cold air all the time So eventually it's going to freeze up.
Home HVAC systems have the same problem. The cooling fins need to be cleaned at least every two years (better every year). Home refrigerators can last decades because they use coils without cooling fins (but they do benefit from cleaning the coils).
You definitely need a pre-filter and you may need to play around with scheduling different modes so hybrid mode is only used during warm periods.
That's not the condensor it's inside the tank it's shedding the heat into the water. It's the evaporator. That also isn't being caused by dust, although admittedly, it's not helping the problem. That's either being caused by low freon or a failed/failing expansion valve. If the valve is sticking closed, it'll cause low freon pressure in the evaporator, high pressure at the valve. Which in turn will start to freeze regularly depending on conditions. Low freon does the same, keeps the evaporate from filling, causing it to freeze over. If the evaporate can't fill it, it can't properly exchange the cold air into the environment, causing it to hold lower Temps and freeze.
Bad poor performing fan can have a similar effect, but usually you'll see that on a visual inspection easily.
They installers under warranty couldn't fix mine but the error suggested it's either the expansion valve or low freon. Ours also trips a breaker which is odd because it's a 400w heatpump + 1.6kW e-heater, this is on 240v 16A breaker I'm pretty sure.
You have to clean condensor coils on refrigerators the same as this unit so not too big of a deal.
would you buy again ??
Thank you for sharing 👍
You should pull the Alternating Current heating element, at least one of them if there are two, and install a DC heating element and hook solar panels to it.
We got this thing before I put up a single panel. And as the video title says it works great till it doesn't. Just something that the manufacturer doesn't come out up front with.
If I installed one of these I would probably use the duct kit and install an inline filter box with replaceable filters. That filter that is built in is a very poor excuse for a filter. I'm very intrigued by these water heaters but I'm really not sure if the math works out to actual real world savings.
Good Information. Thanks
Is the elephant in the room the wood furnace? Do you have a higher particulate load than the average consumer?
I'm sure its possible but I haven't noticed much difference between winter and summer.
I hate my proterra- dealing with same issues - I wish I had never purchased it - thanks for the video
Funny, that most videos on UA-cam only talk about how good they are, don't talk about the downsides. Because, way too much money made selling/installing them. Most, don't know or care. I work on them almost every day. Keep in mind, Rheem will not always mail you parts. They use too but now they cant. And when you have to find and buy them, parts are very high. Then add labor cost. These pretty units are built to sell, not to last.
Put a hepa filter on the intake. This will keep your condensor clean. Although the dirt reduces evaporator efficiency and essentially insulates it I don't think that would be your cause of ice. Does the unit have a defrost thermostat on the condensor that you can see?
Also that "air filter" is really not shit. its hardly even considered a filter. maybe merv 1
If this is in a closed garage, that's your problem if you do not have an exhaust duct on the tank. As the cold air gets released into the closed garage it begins to drop the ambient air temperature. When that happens it is slowly reducing the temperature differential in the system causing frost to form, of course this will be more apparent during the cooler months. The intake air is now too cool and have barely and heat to pull from the air. This setup without an exhaust duct is extremely inefficient.
thanks, was all excited, then saw your video and knowing us (like furnace filter gets changed when furnace doesn't work anymore)... so yeah, we ain't gonna do the maintenance.
thank you for your post.
I have a suggestion: If it's possible, I would use a car engine air filter and run all the intake air through it and possibly not even have to bother with the internal air filter which you say rests against the coil (and is damaging it by taking it in and out). Again, I have no idea 'how' the air gets in there so it might not even work, but if there's a way, it would keep things very clean. Cheers.
May be too restrictive. You need air flow for the coil to absorb heat.
Nu Calgon makes a line of spray foam cleaner for the condenser coil.But he made a good point if you don’t do some annual Maintance change air filter like on a HVAC system. Then you may have major components like compressor , ECM fan motors, PSC fan motors, sensors , control boards, refrigerant leaks, can cause expensive failures. At Best if people perform Maintance on the hot water heater the equipment could last up to 15 years. But as we all know they just don’t make things that last any not like your parents refrigerator might have lasted 25 years and is still running but it doesn’t have a place or look good modern kitchens today that sort of thing .
The evaporator coil is on top of the water heater. The condenser coil is used to heat the water.
Hmmm, I find this interesting. My brother owns a 50 year old window air conditioner that has a cheap 1/4 inch sponge filter on the front of the evap coils. It’s been used off and on over the years and the coils have never gotten caked up with dust. How is that different then what you have here? I mean I see in the video the dust accumulation but I can figure out why the coils on your unit with its’ filter being used still end up getting caked up?
The "filter" is just a sheet of plastic with a bunch of holes in it. In needs to use a remote ducting kit to run the intake air to a pre-filter box.
You know an idea would be to vacuum off the coils every 2 or 3 years when you end up changing out the anode. You have to pop off the top anyway to change the anode so you might as well vacuum the coils too. Anodes should be changed out this often. When changing out the anode use a hammer wrench- like the kind they use in garages to change tires. I did and it loosened up the anode in about 20 seconds.
Mine is going on 3 years and freezing up. I'm going to try to clean it.
Awesome video thank you, why are they integrating refrigeration into a concept that works so well for so long just make the old better
Mine is in a closet with a duct coming in from the garage. Definitely will have to figure out a way to filter my intake ducting. Thank you for the PSA on the bad design.
So as I listen to your very informative video , I have decided to NOT purchase the stand alone heat pump water heater. The motivation for you to buy a heat pump water heater is saving money correct? You can easily calculate the running cost for a gas or electric water heater (installation costs vary by region) And consider that you don’t need to do anything to them once they are installed.
What you have done with this informative video is provided me the actual difference’s in cost (materials & labor(mine or contractor) that I would need to consider.
For myself, the fact that I would need to worry about all the additional items you have pointed out, There are not enough cost savings to warrant a change to heat pump type water heater. Less Stress also has a value that is often overlooked.
I'll wait to purchase one when the companies start putting better intake filtration and possibly through the wall exhaust kit like a dryer vent type system to remove cold air and possibly reduce decibels
When I was looking into these: the AO Smith one had a remote exhaust kit available (in case you wanted to install in a closet or something) Not sure about the Rheem.
Have had my GE GeoSpring tank from 2010 and my coil is clean 🤷♂️
Gosh! You've got the right mind set about this technology. People are so eager to sell you the latest greatest that they don't appreciate the extent of which the technology limits will penalize them. I've seen very nice fridges tossed on the curbs because of that same issue. The condensor radiator gets too dirty and insulate itself from the dust buildup. In your case it's the evaporator that gets dirty because it's the one in open air flow. Nevertheless it clogs the fins and with the defrost cycles the moisture makes the dirt clings even more so. Cleaning those fins with a brush is very difficult and often bends the fins making the process even more difficult By the way, the more efficient way to get the heat to the water would have been to have the coil immersed totally into the tank. Another better idea would have been to borrow the "mini split" idea of using a long refrigerant hose to remotely place the evaporator where it cool a room replacing or helping your air conditioning, thereby increasing even more your energy saving. In such a case the water heater process or re-design could be rethought for ease of cleaning, preferably with a jet of hot water stream, sort of a waterpick system... Fortunately I did not bite into that technology. I got a 40 gal Marathon water heater for $50 on the Craigslist and connected the red and blue wire to the 120VAC instead of the 240VAC from my solar hybrid inverter and heat it at half power so that the plastic tank inside last longer. It takes about 6 hours to heat the whole tank to scalding temperature. I wrapped the tank with 8 inch of thermal foam insulation because the tank is in the backyard. So now, in the winter it helps keep the water hot for 3 days without problems. Once hot, it really takes only 1 hour or power a day - around noon - to maintain its heat at the same level. I paid off my investment within the same month as I got rid off my gas heater and my energy bill all together.
you need to get micro channel vinom cleaning package and wash the condensor. Its going off High Head pressure from the micro channels being clogged.
That’s not a condenser it’s an evaporator therefore it will not cut out on high head pressure because of a dirty filter or coil. It would cut out on low evaporator pressure due to restricted airflow.
This is just normal maintenance same as the central HVAC equipment that everyone ignores until it breaks or causes issues.
Good to know, thanks!
That is not the condenser. It’s an evaporator.
What is your ambient temperature?
Buy yourself a few cans of Nu-Calgon Foaming Evaporator Coil Cleaner. Hook up a hose to your hot water side of a sink or washer connection. Then do annual cleanings of the evaporator coil. Flush all dirt down the drain.
Then remove that junk plastic screen filter (probably similar to all the window, bangers and DIY mini splits that everybody installs). Fabricate a wooden frame to fit with foam weather strip to top. Install 1/4” foam air filter material to wooden frame. Spray filter with filter spray. Now you have an air filter that will collect more dirt, i.e. more surface area. You will have an air filter that you can remove the box take it outside spray some degreaser on it and gently spray it out with a garden hose every three months. Reapply filter spray.
75 when the wood furnace is running.
1st off, thanks for the explanation of how this unit works. I personally do not like this design as it means that you are double heating. What I mean by this is that in the cold months, you hare heating the air in the basement first with one source, then that air is being used to heat the water in this tank. If I'm going to do that, I'd just get an indirect HW tank and feed it from my primary source. I'd add a secondary source for the summer - i.e., solar pool heater, and I'd be done.
If I'm looking for a heat pump water heater - the heat pump portion should be on the outside of my house/building - this way I'm not double heating. The problem will be when it gets below freezing, then I'll need another way of heating the water.
Some questions - Where is the insulation on the hot water output- I'd have at least 1" of neoprene ? Where is the hot water siphon to prevent the hot water rising in your piping?
Some additional comments: I'd have some Webstone flanges w/Unions for easy servicing on both the hot and cold water feeds. I'd insulate the cold water pipes as well as they will pick up heat from the room.
We have a old water tank outside and we burn scrap wood under it to heat our water. Works good except days it rains a lot.
That's a brilliant idea besides it overheating but it's outside so not a big issue. Firewood is the most energy efficient fuel by like 20x
@@nexusly6720 It has a thermometer on it with a display inside the house, if the temp goes over 190 we let some water run to cool it off in the event we made the fire too big.
I had a heat pump ac + furnace in a camper Michigan has lots of moisture and that caused it to freeze up in the summer heat pumps work better in dryer conditions made shure with this last camper it has a gas furnace and a rooftop ac they work flawlessly 👌👌
I think when the "freon" is low, the temperature on the coil drops below freezing. The same thing happens in central AC units, where the coil completely freezes over. When the "freon" level is correct, the temperature on the coil should not drop below 36 degrees F, but it goes lower when lower coolant levels.
i just bought an AO smith equivalent with hopes that it is a better design
I thought you are supposed to clean the filter every month.
I have this idea to make a box out of furnace hepa filters, then attach it to a heat pump water heater. I have seen this done in a factory before and think it will keep the air cleaner. I still have a regular electric water heater. That's my plan when I replace it.
Do you think this will work? Yes or no?
You describe a corsi-rosenthall box. You may want to look into a duct kit for installing in closed spaces like closets: [you] can then run the input hose to your filter box.
Replacing MERV-13 filters several times a year will also eat into your energy savings though. You could use a (better than stock) washable filter if you remember to clean it like every 2 months.
Thank you I was wondering about this kind of technology. I don’t want anything that requires a lot of maintenance. I want a water heater that heats water and I can forget about it. I was interested in getting one of these. I’ve now changed my mind just like electric vehicles this technology is not ready for prime time
Could you get a better air filter and lay it across the top, maybe even duct tape the sides down? Change it every couple months.
Hey bud,
Buy a roll of filter media, cut it and Tape 1-2 layer over your intake grill.
It’ll filter out the fine dust
You can also get the duct kit and route the intake air from outside.
@@GrindinD : Which may have even more dust, pollen, etc. ... Better to fashion some sort of pre-filter (from commercially available filter elements) for the air inlet.
Install a Blue Light on top similar to what can be done for an AC unit.
I have a smaller unit and after 4 years I am having the same issues ... Clean , clean, clean is the issue and that is going to take more effort .... efficiency comes at a cost and the cost here are at the register and labor to keep the unit running efficiently ... it sucks to pay more and have a more labor hungry hot water heater but that is the cost for efficiency ... I live in the south and I am thinking of adding a solar hot water collector to the system ( direct or non direct system, I am not sure) just to make the system more efficiently ... electric water heater cost more in the long run and electric cost are on the rise as demands increases.... I love the video and I feel your frustration, but efficiency comes at a cost ( not only at the register but maintenance - to be efficient needs to be cleaned more) I had an uncle that told me as a kid long time ago... don't buy things with all the bells and whistles because that is just more things to go wrong with said units ... dishwashers , Washing machines, cars - hybrid ( but I like hybrid engines to recharge my electric system ) Hot water tanks and everything else in life but its all about your desires and your wifes desires ... My wifes sees all the other choices in these things as love for her and I can say it is a waist on money and time but TV pushes these things and we do live in a capitalist society ... so when in Rome , we do as the Rome's do.
Just lay a pleated filter directly on top of the lid
Which one do you recommend?
Can I ditch the filter it came with it?
Had mine for 4 years now installed in a MN basement, having cats and a dog (lots of hair around) for the last two, same unfinished area as the furnace, only brushing off the filter it came with maybe once a month...NEVER had an issue. Never even had any condensate drain out but there is a dehumidifier right next to it. Only place that gets clogged with dust is right at the bottom where the filter doesn't cover. Looks like you have a very dusty basement which is clogging it up.
He is burning wood to heat home in same basement. Icing is also.
A refrigerant and condenser related issue. Also the unit to me is very poor industrial / mechanical design for access filter in my opinion. Profiteroles of air would seem like good retrofit but you would have to account for impedance of fan. I would want factory engineer to come out on this mess.
I didn’t even make it a year when I started having problems with my Rheem water heater from fault and error code constantly popping up to now my unit keeps freezing up and water coming out of the bottom all over my basement floor. Rheem is very easy to get a hold of, but after the one year mark, they will not send anybody out to help repair your system. They just send parts and expect you to install them yourself, some of the diagnosing they have had me done is way beyond most homeowners ability. The only reason I was able to do it is I do have an electrical background I don’t think I would ever suggest or buy another one of these water heaters. Double the money and I haven’t even made it a year and a half and nonstop codes and problems.🤮