The Origins of the Rapture
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- Опубліковано 29 тра 2024
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The Rapture: The belief that Jesus will remove all true Christians from the Earth prior to the end of the world and establishment of his kingdom. The belief is mostly found among American Evangelicals and is part of the larger theological framework called Dispensational Premillennialism. But where did this belief come from?
Bibliography:
Daniel Hummel, The Rise and Fall of Dispensationalism, 2023
Paul Richard Wilkinson, For Zion's Sake: Christian Zionism and the Role of John Nelson Darby, 2008
Candida Moss and Joel Baden, "1 Thessalonians 4.13-18 in Rabbinic Perspective," New Test. STud. 58, pp. 199-212.
00:00 Intro
3:29 Scriptural basis?
9:59 Possible hints from antiquity
15:43 John Nelson Darby to Scofield
22:19 The Rise of Prophecy Fiction
24:15 The Fall of Dispensationalism?
Select footage and images courtesy of Getty
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Here is THE TRUE Savior
YaH The Heavenly FATHER HIMSELF was Who they Crucified/Pierced for our sins and “HERE IS THE PROOF”
From the Ancient Egyptian Semitic:
"Yad He Vav He" is what Moshe (Moses) wrote, when Moses asked YaH His Name (Exodus 3)
Ancient Egyptian Semitic Direct Translation
Yad - "Behold The Hand"
He - "Behold the Breath"
Vav - "Behold The NAIL"
I am "one of those folks" who scrapes by day to day. I would really like to hear what you say about the book of Peter (I think that is what you said.) However, the donation part is a struggle for me. Would you consider posting it here on YT in the future?
Trying to decipher what someone might have meant, writing almost two thousand years ago in a different language and context is certainly no simple task! I used to struggle with this, hoping that one day I would somehow figure it all out.
Fortunately, I came to the conclusion that i's not something I need to do, and was never intended for me. Instead, I came home to the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church which our Lord founded on the Rock of Pope Saint Peter, where I have found my place amongst Christ's followers in experiencing the continuing revelation of our Lord's good news :)
If anyone else is looking for something like that, I hope they will consider joining us!
The Bible is a style of Cryptography. You're taking it literally. It's more symbolic.
Would be honored, hope you speak fairly of this gospel, it is one of my favorite texts from the Nag Hammadi Library. I do understand most all of the lines Christ says, but a few like the lyon eating man, or a few others are but a best guess. All the rest are clear to me. Perhaps, the Secret book of John, or On the Origins of the World, would also be good topics of a video if you have not already done them. Thank you very much. Be blessed in your journey. There is truth in all spiritual works, but one must find them, this is true seeking.
I grew up a Southern Baptist, with this rapture ideology. I was blown away when I learned how new the idea of the rapture actually was. Evangelical Christianity is about as much of a new religious movement, distant from historical Christianity, as Mormonism.
Yep same. I hit a rebellious streak and found catholicism and orthodoxy to be superior in their wisdom, authority, and age
Although at least Protestants can be traced back to Catholics. Mormons are just ridiculous
@@Hmmmmmmmm320
#MeToo
@@Hmmmmmmmm320 same that why I join the OCA
How do you explain Thessalonians 4
My father always called the rapture his retirement plan. His belief that he would be raptured before death led to bad financial decisions. This is an dangerous aspect of rapture thinking that is seldom talked about.
Bad theology kills.
Rapture ! is not in the KJV bible , "caught up" IS !@@frankmarrero7088
I remember in 1975 the J.W.s were going gaga because they were being told the world systems would all be destroyed in that year. So many of them believing they would be taken out of here ran up credit cards, defaulted on loans, sold homes to go wait on the mountain top etc. And nothing happened!!!!! What a whiff!!!! And we still have people today preaching that same mentality , you know the one where in the blink of an eye we'll all get raptured out of here. This stuff is getting old!!!!! 1988 and 1989 came and went. 2011 came and went.
When are people gonna wake up!!!! This rapture thing is not on the calendar!!!!!
I agree that it should be discussed more
This is kind of why I don’t like Protestantism…. Its lead to so many cults and has even lead to the unfortunate rise of atheism in the west due to its denial of early church history.
Growing up, immersed in the matrix of the tribulation/rapture ideology, I was a very depressed kid. I fully expected to be dead by 16 or at least 17 due to the pervasive doom story.
I had a "bucket list" by age 11 and went through a profound depression when I turned 13. However, Im still alive, decades later.
Dont raise kids with a doom narrative - they will turn out nihilistic and with lifelong depression. Im much better now, but its taken years of psychological help.
The tribulation is only a doom narrative to those who dont believe, to those who believe, it is comforting, a means to an end, the end being this sinful and corrupted world we live in.
@@Jlezy condescending and blind
@@jetpetty1613 Nothing about my comment implies being condescending and or blind, im just stating a fact.
Hey, all kids are being raised in a doom narrative nowadays with "climate change" instead... Is that one better? At least the world approves..
@@Jlezyhow about you tribulate on these nuts
What worries me is the many powerful people who believe this, want this, and put their vast resources into making it happen.
You mean like Israel?... They've been screaming for a king/messiah for rhe last few thousand years.
yup especially how it relates to Zionism and the forced removal and killing of Palestinians
I’m confused.
How do you make the rapture happen?
@@jessefontenot9846 i think she's referring to the tribulation period itself, not just the event known as the rapture... I could be guessing.
@@jessefontenot9846they want the Third Temple to be built and for more chaos in the Middle East, since this accelerates the beginning of the events of the 7 year Great Tribulation (in their interpretation).
Most evangelicals believe in the Pre-Tribulation Rapture, which means they believe all the born again Christians will be miraculously raptured in a single moment, and the Tribulation begins after that. The Tribulation and it's events can only happen if the Third Temple is built, so the Antichrist can go into it and commit the Abomination of Desolation, as spoken of in the books of Daniel, Matthew, and Revelation.
The Antichrist is also the man who will save Israel in the beginning of the 7 years, but halfway he will commit the Abomination and start killing everyone who doesn't believe he is God.
They want to accelerate these circumstances. Chaos in the middle east leading to Israel's dire situation, along with pumping all the money and support they can to ensure Israel survives until the Tribulation begins so the Antichrist's can come on the scene. Antichrist arriving guarantees the Return of Christ and the Pre-Trib Rapture to happen. They are total fools. What if the Rapture is "Post-Tribulational"?, in their own theology this just begins the worst 7 years the world will ever go through and they don't even get to be raptured before it!
It's a very heinous religious accelerationism. I am Orthodox Christian and don't believe in pretrib rapture even before I came to Orthodoxy. I was an evangelical before and believed in it in my childhood, very bad for kids... Not to mention US foreign policy making martyrs of Orthodox Christians in Middle East and Eastern Europe.
Honest to god the rapture basically is what caused so much religious trauma for every person I knew growing up. I knew people who contemplated suicide, thought about putting down pets so that the pets wouldn't starve without them, or just have trauma from being forced to live in an apocalyptic family making them extreme nihilists. Why care about anything if the world is going to delete itself at any second? Why make friends outside of your religion if you know they are going to suffer after you leave? Soooooo much trauma...
This is so crazy to me as someone who grew up Jewish. I feel Judaism is very much rooted in the world and its joys, and our duty to it. There was some vagaries about the messiah and afterlife, but I maybe spent a week or two on these concepts out of 15 years Torah school. I never understood until I was an adult that some of my peers in school found so much terror in their faith, and I can see why.
From what I remember from my own religious studies class in school, the passage 'you know not the day nor the hour', which is the closest the Bible gets to the idea of rapture, actually refers to the reader's death, rather than anything as grand as suddenly turning into Superman and flying away. This in itself is already pretty frightening, but not to the point of someone Thanos-snapping your friends and family out of existence. It's basically equivalent to what people think 'memento mori' means nowadays.
Really? Can you elaborate more? Can you tell me about the state and year you grew up at? Just curious.
@@k_schreibz from what I've learned Judaism is and always has been vague on the very idea of an afterlife, is that correct? I agree, Judaism has that going for it. My experience of Wicca is similar: live a good life now and the next will take care of itself.
@@kirstencorby8465 exactly.
As a somewhat elderly person, I remember "The Late Great Planet Earth", by Hal Lindsey, which was the bestselling paperback book of the 1970's. Mr. Lindsey predicted that the Rapture would take place before 2000. And, having moved the goalposts, he is still asserting in 2023 that the Rapture is just around the corner!
Prime example of cognitive dissonance.
It's been "just around the corner" for 2000 years
@@LimeyLassen Best answer.
@@LimeyLassen As a matter of fact, I just read a fascinating book by Paula Fredriksen entitled, "From Jesus to Christ". The book is about the earliest days of the Christian Church and discusses, among many other things, how early Christians dealt with the fact that end of world had not arrived in spite of the fact that it was widely expected to do so in the early Church.
@@Contemplate55 "Cognitive Dissonance is the perception of contradictory information and the mental toll of it."
It's a useful concept in education, because we need stress to learn abstraction. Otherwise, learning is nothing more than memorization.
I remember my grandma used to say "if" and not "when I die". She said "if" for years and even though I was brought up in churches that preached the rapture, I always felt it was weird she did that. She finally started saying "when" about 5 years before she died and although I no longer believed in the rapture or much of the bible by that point, I did feel kinda bad for her that she had given up after believing since the 70s.
Well, all I know is that I have believed in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 since the 70's, and still look for it, as Paul tells us that believe; "Looking for that blessed hope and appearing of the glory of the great God and savor Jesus Christ." Titus 2:13.
It offends my family so bad when I say death is natural and okay and even good.... Family of pastors in Appalachia blah blah... That should explain it 😂
@@rosemadder5547 Actually, death was not natural nor okay or even good, but rather an enemy (1 Corinthians 15:26) because when God made Adam and Eve they were made to live forever. God even said of all his his creation, “It is good” because there was no death, a concept we can not understand, but one Adam and Eve understood when God killed an animal to fashion clothing to cover them both, as after they sinned, their eye’s were opened revealing their nakedness.
This death (sacrifice of blood) was the first on Earth, the second death of great note was that of Jesus Christ death on the cross, shedding his blood to redeem man from the consequence of sin, which is death, Romans 5:17. And 6:23.
@rosemadder5547 They everywhere, ain't they? 😂 WV lady here and I grew up in a Church of God Holiness where half my famil6 worked (great-aunt was my Sunday School teacher some grandmother knew if I acted up before I even got back in) so I feel your pain.
@@petratical exactly. Do not let these people steal your hope. They are mistaken.
As an atheist who’s seen alot of content talking about religion, it’s kind of refreshing, to me, how neutral your delivery feels. Despite the subject matter didn’t feel a heavy bias toward the validity or lack thereof of the stories in question.
I'm a atheist, I'm a atheist. Always gotta tell people, no one cares
@@shermhart7617but what about people who say, As a Catholic? its a way to state your belief while also adding context to whatever they are gonna say.
@@shermhart7617 everyone else in this comment section is stating their beliefs too, you better go tell them all as well that we aren't allowed to do that. The rest of us didn't get the memo you received apparently.
And what is this utuber promoting? No rapture so then what ? Are we just waiting for the coming Kingdom. Or do we now have Domion Now theology. Basically Rimanism promotes ether on or other.
@@user-zd3ti9vl8bsee Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21. This is Jesus telling us what to expect and the sequence of events.
As a Christian, with an insane dad who obviously never read the bible he claimed to quote, the rapture was a source of trauma for me all the way up until the point that I actually read the bible and saw that it wasn't in there. My understanding of Christianity changed SO MUCH when I read it myself and stopped letting other people tell me what it was about. But I will NEVER forget the amount of fear in my heart when my dad was saying the rapture was right around the corner any time anything in the world happened.
Unfortunately, too many Christians hold to what they’re told without reading the Bible themselves. Shortly after my conversion at age 12, I remember being taught the whole dispensational schema for the future, while studying the book of Revelation. I was too young and inexperienced in Bible interpretation to see how many liberties were being taken with what Scripture actually said. I accepted it, but, as time went on, it made less and less sense to me. A “secret rapture“ just does not appear in the Bible, and I think it’s becoming less popular among evangelicals. Certainly most Reformed believers tend to reject it, as they generally favor covenant theology to dispensationalism. It is sad to me how many Christians seem to have deconstructed,and left the faith because they could not reconcile pet doctrines of their traditions (like the rapture) when it’s not clearly taught in Scripture in the first place!
@@DarthBoardBVE I've sadly found a lot of this, too. People will explain to me the reasons they left the faith, only for me to inform them that those things aren't anywhere in the Bible, or were apocryphal syncretic material that has been unconsciously incorporated into a lot of Evangelicalism (e.g. Milton). It doesn't mean those things aren't still confusing and incredibly damaging to people, but it's hard to watch people realize they may have given up something they did love over something that they didn't have to believe in the first place.
I always felt like Southern Baptists especially were a politically-interested country club that exploits ignorant kids with weird things like "If you ask Christ to save you, you're saved forever." There was no eucharist. The readings were politicalized. After 9/11, the church got church for a few years. It's the kind of place you'd expect MTG to attend. The pastor was my Western Religions professor. He was smarter than you'd expect of most low rent Protestant pastors but his lectures were remarkably shallow. Like a lot of them, he seems to think that Christianity didn't exist until Martin Luther
The rapture is in the bible. Jesus said he will come like a thief in the night no one will know the day or hour not even the angels in heaven only his father knows when he will send him. Jesus said the dead in him will rise up and join him in the clouds then those who are living who believe in and follow him. Jesus said two men will be walking in the field one will be taken the other left, two women will be grinding in the mill one will be taken the other left. The parable of the bridesmaids and the lamps is about the rapture so yes the rapture is in the bible.
@dragonf1092 I'd like to ask the pro-Rapture folks "If no one knows when the Rapture will happen but the Father, how come are you obsessed with it?" They always forget that being a street prophet is a serious sin.
I've learned so much about religion and humanity's experience from this channel. It's one of my favorite educational channels of all time.
He’s so thorough and unbiased. Pure academic and sensitive and respectful
Found this channel in 2022, amazing insight.
It's one of the few channels that make me think "I didn't know how much I didn't know"
Found it several years ago when the algorithm was suppressing it due to its subject matter. The level of respect for and distance from its subject matter meant that it was simply a matter of time before it got given a second look. A few years and 600k added subscribers later, seems like Google fixed the problem. Glad to see this channel thriving.
Its close but his sources like bartman are deconstructionist mine as well be physical extremist or humanist sources.
In america certain groups politcally pay them to try and mess with the christians
Wow this was a solid breakdown! Been struggling with the rapture most of my life as it didn’t make sense but was shoved down my throat in several churches. Glad this video exists to break it down into digestible material
This happens to a lot of people who are simply to lazy to search the scriptures and see if what they have been taught is biblical.
I am sorry that this rapture idea was shoved down your throat. I never had that kind of experience. The rapture is a Johnny come lately doctrine out of the early 19th century from the British Isles into America thru the effort's of J.N.Darby and publicized thru C.I. Scofield and Chafer thru Dallas Theological Seminary. The idea that alive believers are caught up into heaven in mansions( John 14) and come back to earth with Jesus at his coming are a very troubling set of ideas that upon examination are a real stretch. Plus the idea of God having two plans of salvation, one for the church and another for the later day Jews.!!! No such split in God's plan for humankind exists.!!!!;
@@davidwoods6015 right and I never knew the true origins of the premillennialism idea till just this year. Every church I ever went to and every Christian I ever talked to believed it. Once I started to be shown different ideas my eyes were opened. Now we can debate about what the new earth would look like for sure but the rapture to me just seems fishy and I always questioned it which only gave more anxiety regarding it
I remember a conversation with a friend in 1982 ;at a bible study in California. He mentioned a name that I wasn't familiar with. "John Nelson Darby" and the Plymouth brethren ". Sooo!!!!! began a search for more info.
Gradually over time it became apparent that these rapture ideas were certainly abberational and the product of a misguided zeal for 2nd advent expectations. Mormons, JWs, 7 Day Adventists, New Thought and later Mary Baker Eddy came out of this 2nd great awakening!!!! Sooooo!!!!!; here we are in the 21st century with a smorgasbord of conflicting beliefs. Welcome to the real church world.!!!!!!
I would just tell you there is no reason to believe in a "heaven bound" so called rapture! The Apostle's idea from 1.Thess 4
has to do with a common occurrence from the Roman world in Paul's day! The conquering king returning home after a long campaign is met on the road with a citizen delegation from the city there to usher him into the city. That's what Paul is describing
in 1 Thess.4!!! Jesus at His coming is met by a delegation of believers and escorted earthward . Jesus never changes direction, we do!!!! This is done to facilitate Ps.110 and the new heaven and new earth!!!!
Nothing to do with an avoidance of a tribulation and a boogieman!!!! That's all futurist's hogwash!!!!!!
As a person who grew up in a Christian Baptist; family i totally believed this in my younger years, Blessed Be.
Saaaame
As someone who grew up in a catholic country (help!) and studied in a religious school, I never heard of the rapture. I remember hearing it mentioned in popular American media and not knowing what they were talking about.
Most Catholics believe Jesus' kingdom will be established, not in the rapture but some Catholics probably do.
@@josepheridu3322they don't, it's heretical
@josepheridu3322 by in large we Catholics are Amillennial, although we don't typically put much emphasis on the end times in general, so the idea of the pretrib rapture is nonsensical even to Catholics who do focus on the end times.
As an Orthodox I share the same experience. I had no idea what the Americans meant by rapture.
@@Player-re9moOrthodox and Catholics usually tend to be on the same page on about 95% of everything.
Growing up in Italy, you are exposed almost exclusively to Catholic beliefs. So I always find fascinating the number of doctrines (sometimes cults) that have been originated in the US, from Mormonism to those who "play" with snakes
Fanno morir dal ridere😂
@KeivanHH as a catholic living in America, I can confirm it’s wild.
I grew up Church of England, and the only time our family was inside a church was for christenings and weddings. To me this stuff is both fascinating and seriously weird.
North America in the mid to late 1800s was a veritable font of all manner of "doctrines and cults" from Mormonism, to Progressivism, to American Spiritualism. The extent to which they have penetrated every day existence in the western world is often not well recognized.
Honestly we are all weird, you included
I was getting to know our new youth minister when my children were young. I’m not a scholar so I don’t always get words like pre millennial, so when he asked me if I was a premillennialist or a post millennialist I answered that I was a pro millennialist, I didn’t know what was gonna happen but I was all for it. But my eschatology is limited to ‘The Lord could come back at any time, so eat dessert first.’
Jesus isn't coming back to scoop up millions of believers to escort them to heaven for 7 years to avoid a tribulation and a boogieman!!! That's all futurist's nonsense!!!!!! We are not the Matt.24 generation !!!!!
Thank you for these amazing videos! Interesting and educational, without ever being preachy!
One of my favorite things about this rapture is that when many non evangelical and Iman/Muslims priest are given this question they go "only god really knows" which a polite way of saying "please stop asking me that question"
I think it was Frank Herbert who wrote that the "unwritten commandment of all religions is: thou shalt not question"
I mean, can you blame them?
Which is smart. Asking that question is like the blind leading the blind. Just read the Bible and ask God your questions. Your mind will eventually be opened to the truth.
Would you prefer they make something up and dogmatically insist it is the truth when in fact they do not know?
@@robertdowns9534 The Bible doesn't talk; it needs man to explain it, that is why we have priests and pastors. It is often amusing that even the most so-called Bible-based Evangelical cult--I mean church--still has a pastor even while insisting that the Bible is all you need. I often want to ask the cult leader--I mean pastor--why he has that job if the Bible is all we need, which makes him a hypocrite and a liar basically.
Also in the 70s, there was that Christian rapture horror movie series that started with "A Thief in the Night." Those movies were shown in churches, and traumatized many children especially.
That's precisely why I consider the rapture to be unbiblical; it brings terror only to the believers who ought to feel secure.
Me too! Whenever my parents were late to pick me up or I walked home and my mom left for groceries without telling me, I wasn't freaking out, but I definitely thought about the possibility I was left behind.
Boomer children, mostly.
Traumatized? Oh the horror!!! Jesus returning for the church,before the wrath of God falls on the world. Oh the horror!! IF,you're not a Christian! And guess what? ALL the children get taken in the rapture. I guess your pastor wasn't educated.
"And the Truth shall set you free"
John 8:31-32
Free from the burden of dogma, indeed. Too bad that theists don't care about what is actually true and instead just make up what they want to be true and they'll cherry pick any verse from their holy book to pretend they're making a point while living contradictory to their words.
The problem is our different methods of determining truth. Some go by what they can see. Some by what they're told.
@@borkabrak the Bible has told you plenty of times that we walk by faith and not by sight. To call things that aren't as though they were/are. If you believe There is only one Truth, that is His. Ours, Mine, Yours don't exist.
@@JDA89 Well, then you just admited that your blind and dogmatic. Makes sense, one will inevitably lead to another. It's the most obvious of infinite severe problems inherent to faith that harm individuals as well as entire societies.
The scientific method is the most reliable way to jusrifiably have confidence in knowing what is true because of actionable and demonstrable foundations, findings, and patterns. Faith has none of that, it's just blind, dogmatic make belief.
Bless you for this well researched and explained video. I'll be sharing this.
"No man ever believes that the Bible means what it says:
He is always convinced that it says what he means."
~George Bernard Shaw
Not me i know Jesus said there are no genders and bathed his homies and removed his single towel
I grew up watching the Left Behind movies. My mom read me the books as a kid. Scared me more than anything. I remember trying to comfort my little brother who was terrified of “Mr. Rapture”. 🤦🏼♀️
Pre-tribulation rapture theology was popularized extensively in the 1830s by John Nelson Darby and the Plymouth Brethren, and further popularized in the United States in the early 20th century by the wide circulation of the Scofield Reference Bible. Rapture doctrine did not exist before Darby invented it in 1830 AD. Before it "popped into John Darby's head" no one had ever heard of a secret rapture doctrine.
You're speaking out of both sides of your mouth at the same time friend. You *FIRST* stated that the position was "POPULARIZED" by Darby, and _T H E N_ you said it was actually "INVENTED" by him. The 'ole Darby argument is as lame as a dog's broken hind leg. Where's an argument from scripture to support what it is you believe?
That's not true Darby got the idea from Scottish girl around 1826...the girl HEARD it before Darby
@@Kman. You want me to show you something from your great book of fantasies and fairy tales? Scriptures can be interpreted by 20 different people to mean 20 different things.
Thats a lie,Darby didn't invent the rapture. Hey,instead of believing everyone who you like,do some research first.
Then you might actually deserve some respect.
The Apocalypse of Elijah
This third-century text exists in two versions, one Coptic, another Greek. It is written from a premillennial perspective and contains extensive detailed material on the tribulation period. After discussing the emergence of the Antichrist onto the world’s stage (ch. 3) and the arrival of the two witnesses to oppose him (ch. 4), the document describes the Rapture as Christ’s deliverance of His people to preserve them from wrath (ch. 5). The pertinent passage reads:
On that day the Christ will pity those who are His own. And He will send from heaven his sixty-four thousand angels, each of whom has six wings. The sound will move heaven and earth when they give praise and glorify. Now those upon whose forehead the name of Christ is written and upon whose hand is the seal both the small and the great, will be taken up upon their wings and lifted up before his wrath. Then Gabriel and Uriel will become a pillar of light leading them into the holy land. It will be granted to them to eat from the tree of life. They will wear white garments and angels will watch over them. They will not thirst, nor will the son of lawlessness be able to prevail over them (Apocalypse of Elijah 5:1-6).
This text clearly depicts the Rapture as an event that will remove Christians from earth to Heaven before the outbreak of the Antichrist’s persecution. In this way, they will be shielded in Heaven from his cruel deeds.
In his article “The Rapture in the Apocalypse of Elijah,” Gumerlock notes that this apocalypse states the Rapture’s purpose as the removal of God’s people from wrath. He argues that that period of wrath should be understood as the tribulation period, since “the sinners left behind on earth cry: ‘See, now we will die in a famine and tribulation [Apocalypse of Elijah 5:12].’” If his interpretation is accurate, then this text is clearly teaching a pretribulational Rapture.
The Apocalypse of Pseudo-Ephraem
Also known as “On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World” or “Sermon on the End of the World,” this text survives in two somewhat varied versions, one Syriac, another Latin. The Latin version contains a pretribulational statement:
We ought to understand thoroughly, therefore, my brothers, what is imminent or overhanging. . . . Why therefore we do not reject every care of earthly actions and prepare ourselves for the meeting of the Lord Jesus Christ, so that He may draw us from the confusion, which overwhelms all the world. . . . For all the saints and elect of God are gathered together before the tribulation, which is to come, and are taken to the Lord, in order that they may not see at any time the confusion which overwhelms the world because of our sins.
The material that follows clearly equates this tribulation with the period of the Antichrist’s dominance over the earth as foretold in the books of Daniel and Revelation. One area of disagreement between this document and modern pretribulationism is that Pseudo-Ephraem thought the Tribulation would be just three and a half years in length, not seven. Nevertheless, his view is still clearly pretribulational in sum and substance. In their article “The Rapture and an Early Medieval Citation,” Demy and Ice conclude, “Although the sermon has some ambiguities, it, like pretribulationism, clearly emphasizes imminence, two comings separated by the tribulation, and the promise of deliverance of believers from the tribulation.”
Some critics will counter by questioning the reliability of these two sources. After all, we don’t know exactly when or where they were written, or even who their authors were! But this objection misses the point entirely. Pretribulationists do not appeal to these two sources as authoritative sources for theology, but only to demonstrate the falsity of their critics’ accusation that pretribulationism is a recent invention. So the origin and authoritativeness of these documents are utterly irrelevant to the discussion at hand; all that matters for the present purpose is that they are demonstrably Christian documents from the ancient and medieval periods that clearly teach a form of pretribulationism.
The History of Brother Dolcino
Brother Dolcino was the leader of the 14th-century movement known as the Apostolic Brethren. While none of his writings on this subject have survived, an anonymous Latin document written in 1316 records firsthand information on the life and teachings of Brother Dolcino. This document contains yet another statement of early pretribulationism:
Again [Dolcino believed and preached and taught] that within those three years Dolcino himself and his followers will preach the coming of the Antichrist. And that the Antichrist was coming into this world within the bounds of the said three and a half years; and after he had come, then he [Dolcino] and his followers would be transferred into Paradise, in which are Enoch and Elijah. And in this way they will be preserved unharmed from the persecution of Antichrist. And that then Enoch and Elijah themselves would descend on the earth for the purpose of preaching [against] the Antichrist. Then they would be killed by him or by his servants, and thus Antichrist would reign for a long time. But when Antichrist is dead, Dolcino himself, who then would be the holy pope, and his preserved followers, will descend on the earth, and will preach the right faith of Christ to all, and will convert those who will be living then to the true faith of Jesus Christ.
Once again, the end times chronology presented in this text is quite clear: first the Antichrist is revealed, then the Rapture occurs, then an extended period of tribulation grips the earth, then the church returns to earth with Christ at His second coming. In his article “A Rapture Citation in the Fourteenth Century,” Gumerlock rightly concludes:
This paragraph from The History of Brother Dolcino indicates that in northern Italy in the early fourteenth century a teaching very similar to pretribulationism was being preached. . . . While not suggesting that pretribulationism was the dominant view of the rapture in the Middle Ages, it is likely that such teaching did not occur in a vacuum and that others besides Dolcino were aware of it. It can reasonably be assumed that the Apostolic Brethren (who numbered in the thousands) believed, as did their leader, that when the Antichrist would arrive, they would be transferred to paradise and be preserved there from his persecution in the tribulation.
Well yes that's a simplified summary of a portion of the video. Your point?
@5:30 The word "meet" (apantesis) can mean both meeting and bringing the VIP back as well as meeting and following the VIP back (to his place). It is used two other times in the NT, one being in Matthew 25, which describes a Jewish wedding. Here, the bride and bridesmaid "meet" (apantesis) the groom and then "went in with him to the wedding/marriage feast [NLT]." If the bridesmaids (especially the foolish ones) were going back to the bride's place, they wouldn't need lamps to show them the way. In ancient Jewish weddings, the groom goes and fetches his bride and brings her back to his own place or his father's place, not the other way round. IOW, there is still a case for the rapture if one studies it in parallel with ancient Jewish weddings and how Christ is coming back to fetch His bride, the church, and to bring her back to His Father's place. Those who have studied the word both in the NT as well as OT (Septuagints) find that it simply means "to meet." Whether it means to bring the VIP back or to follow the VIP back or to just meet (to scorn and for battle even) depends on the context. There isn't just one technical meaning as described in 5:30.
Great! Thank you, as European I was always wondering why this evangelical Americans are obsessed with rapture, now I understand.
Because these people are too weak to endure persecution like all other Christians throughout history and in other parts of the world do
Being an American Christian myself who never fully bought into the rapture concept, I think a lot of misconceptions like that comes from us getting too caught up in popular culture and not thinking for ourselves- which could be why God allowed us to lose all cultural influence to shake up the church and force us to get our priorities straight.
Well said
Since the British have mostly aposticized their official and dissenter religion since WW2 they have forgotten it and just assume it is American.
Modern media will ride any wave of faddishness that sells copy. It is easier to get published in America than any other nation.
I grew up in a Southern Baptist family that deeply believed in the Rapture. I definitely had a few terrified moments when I was the first one home in the afternoon, thinking my family had been taken up, which made me think deeply about my sins. I didn't know any of the history behind the belief till now. This video is so packed with interesting info, I had to watch it twice 👏🏻
Good. Consider your sins intensely.
@@dangin8811 consider your mom.
@@treelzebub yours will consider me for many weeks
And that is our clue. What causes fear, is not of God.
Its frustrating how such a nonsensical teaching became so widespread
This post was made by the Lutheran Gang
I think it would be more accurate to say that dispensationalism led people to believe and support the existence of Israel rather than Israel being the reason people believe in dispensationalism.
There's not better prophecy than a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Chosen=Adopted Children Of God.
"As Many That Are Led By The Spirit Of God Are The Sons Of God...
Spirit Of Adoption By Which We Cry Abba-Father" - Rom.8:14-16
"Israelites To Whom Pertained The Adoption" - Rom.9:4
Left Behind is like if God picked M. Night Shyamalan to write a twist ending for the Bible.
I feel like if M. Night Shyamalan wrote that story, a possible twist at the end would be that God only likes _skeptics,_ so he _vaporized_ everyone else.
Wait.. didn't he actually write a story like this, except anybody who got caught in the darkness would get raptured?
I remember in the 1980s Ron Reagan's Interior Secretary James Watt seriously argued that we did not need to protect our natural resources because, based on the bible, the world would be ending soon.
He also said when the last tree is chopped down, Jesus will return.
I had a biology professor with the same views.
That is the most tragic thing about this misguided fringe belief - its connections to fossil fools and US politicians resulting in a race to destroy Earth’s habitable biosphere for the rest of us and countless other species.
@@barbaraaly6186 Should have encouraged that biology professor to go pet a glaucus atlanticus.
Myaunt had the same views. We shouldn't worry about pollution, or driving entire species into extinction. or nuclear war, or squandering earths resources because God was going to renew the Earth at his coming.
Doesn't sound like "Wise Stuardship to me.
As a former Jehovah's Witness, this was very insightful and it's clear how many of Darby's ideas were transferred over beyond merely the idea of rapture.
You are correct!!! The heavenly class and the earthly class!!; Sounds familiar. The J.W.s have hammered on this for years. These ideas came out of the 2nd great awakening in America and the British Isle's in the form of a dispensational approach that divided believers into different groups. In the J.N. Darby idea God has a separate plan for the Jews over and against the church. And of course the J.W.s had a heavenly and earthly class. Once again , a lot of goofy ideas came out of the so called "2nd great awakening.in early 19th century. Mormons, 7th Day Adventism, "New Thought", Watchtower, Mary Baker Eddy ,a little later on. Many, many aberrational concepts from that period,.!!!!!!!
Yes the JWS have a rapture ( don’t call it a rapture belief) Like many of his time Russel was a cherry picker. So sad the rank and file JW has no knowledge of this history . They live by “Its just around the corner “ since 1874
@@soldiernomore3843 And the JWs don't talk about 1975!!!!! When they lost one half of their membership because the end of "all things" didn't happen!!!!! Sooooo!!! In the same vein, what are Christians gonna do when this "heaven bound" rapture doesn't happen. ? Jonestown? I'm serious!!!!;
@@soldiernomore3843As a former ex JW, that thought was always scary to me but then I realized how often they say it and it’s still “just right around the corner”
I'm confused about what being an x Jehovah's witness has to do with it 🤔❤️
Thank you for the in-depth overview of this subject, very informative and biblically accurate as well
I grew up southern evangelical. It blows my mind how some of the doctrine I took for granted is actually on the fringes of Christian belief. I was taught that huge chunks prophecy were fulfilled in the last century and that, roughly speaking, the events of the “Left Behind” series could transpire at any moment. Scary!
@kalebisalwaysrightI agree and I align more with Catholicism (I’m new to Christianity and haven’t been confirmed in any church yet) it isn’t a complete Protestant issue though. Most Protestants also think the rapture is ridiculous but the Protestants who have the most influence on Christian pop culture in America are these evangelical mega church style baptists (not saying all baptists are bad). Could you please explain the spiritual dead being resurrected? The end times are not something that I have been focusing on learning so I’m curious to hear the Orthodox view.
@kalebisalwaysright That's absolute nonsense and a complete bastardization of the word of God. You do understand that the scripture is extremely important. You don't focus on the rapture "too much" it's literally the next huge event in human history....lol.
The events of the left behind can't happen because that book is incorrect on how the Rapture will take place, the rapture will not happen at random when no one is looking or expecting, the rapture will happen only when the antichrist enters the rebuilt temple in Israel and proclaim himself god in there... it will not happen before that day, that is what Paul explained in 2nd Thessalonians.
@kalebisalwaysright The second coming isn't the Rapture you're right, the second coming happens after the Great Tribulation which is after the Rapture.. there fixed your understanding of the bible regarding that part. Also, not sure how you can be proud to be ignorant... "We also never read Revelations in Liturgy, since it's unfulfilled prophecy" ... that's the weirdest flex I ever heard, who acts like it's a great thing to be ignorant of things that God went out of His way to tell us about on purpose? Then again the Orthodoxy is basically the same thing as the Catholics, your temples are full of images of saints and other apostasies, so why bother actually trying to learn the truth right?
@@michaelcastro5339 nope much of revelation is fulfilled in 70 AD. Also The thousand year reign was already fulfilled in two ways: 1. The Church 2. The conversion of the Roman Empire into the Christian Byzantine Empire which reigned for more than 1000 years. Revelation is not read in liturgy because the book was not deemed officially canonical until much later than the other books of scripture (oh by the way, who determined which books were canonical and would go into the Bible? Oh yeah it was the Orthodox lol). Regardless Revelation contains the patterns history and is extremely important and obviously much remains unfulfilled. Of course, rapture isn’t in the book so that’s fake but it does portray the second coming and also the council of the saints who are offering bowls of our prayers to God (that’s called intercessory prayers of the Saints which of course is denied by evangelicals).
From a preacher I listened to years ago at the Bethlehem church, all I can say is this: don't worry about the world's end...worry about your own. It doesn't matter what happens to the world so long as you take care of yourself spiritually. You can save no one's soul, but your own.
Sadly, you can't save anyone, not even yourself. When oxygenated blood stops flowing to your brain it will begin to die, which means your memory, your hopes, beliefs and dreams will die with it. For you that will be the end, you will cease to exist just like the billions and billions who went before you, it will be as if you never existed. However, if you want to fool yourself into believing that all of that is untrue, you are more than free to do so, don't let a few facts get in the way of a good dream. There is a reason why all religions are called "faiths".
The word is harpazo and His word tells you to pray you are counted worthy to escape all the horrors coming upon this earth. There’s nowhere to hide in the earth. Of course His church is going to be pulled out before the destruction. Another video promoting lies and people in the comment section literally falling for it
Actually you can’t save your soul-only the Lord Jesus Christ can save your soul!
@@cathysnyder8559 Really? How on earth can an adult believe such nonsense? is it "fear of hell"? Are you afraid of all the other religion's hell? if not why not? because Christianity got to you first.
St Ignatius Loyola said? Give me a child until he is seven, and I will show you the man. What he means is, he will scare the child so much that the child will be whatever he is told to be.
@@cathysnyder8559Your splitting hairs here. What I mean is only you have control over what you choose to believe or disbelieve. If you trust in Jesus, and at least **attempt** to adhere to what the bible says, that is enough.
I always understood Paul to be commenting on the end, the final call when Christ will call forth all who are in the grave, all who ever lived. Their spirit will reunite with the body and those who belong to the Lord will rise to be with Him, the lost will be called to judgement. I don't find it confusing nor do I call it the rapture I believe it is nothing more than the final call to judgement at the time the Earth will be ended.
Time to read the Bible for yourself, start with Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21. Then read all the New Testament/Covenant asking the Holy Spirit to teach you.
@@donnaleveron5711your response makes no sense
Bf0, you just sinply nailed it,rightly dividing the word of truth.. kudos.
You’re my favourite account for religious concepts. It feels very unbiased which is refreshing. You don’t attack the views and you don’t defend them, simply analysing them.
I see quite a bit of biased here.He says there is only one bible passage that proponents of pretribulation rapture look at;he suggests that the bible doesn't say about the pretribulation rapture by asking the question "where did the idea come from".He also calls it fiction.
And by the way all the things Jesus mentions in Mat 24 is answering a question He was asked,"the signs of His coming and of the end of this age and when it's gonna happen ".
He obviously is not aware of the post tribulation rapture (infact more than 1), that's why he agrees with those who say this theology is confused.
However l'm impressed by so much work he's done gathering several scholars' interpretations although he's got a side that he inclines to.
Everybody with a brain has multiple biases. Par for the course. I like RFB because the I perceive Dr. Andrew Henry’s aspiration is to minimize and mitigate the bias when talking about facts and interpretations/approaches.
Grew up in a rapture, death cult. We were not taught to grow up and give to the world. Education was restricted. As children and young adults, we were taught the rapture was coming at any moment, and to be prepared. (Sinless.). Jobs, family, friends, hobbies, education meant nothing. We were to make it to the rapture. This causes stunted growth, social and economic problems, and absolute trauma and fear. It took me 30 years to get away, but I am so happy I did even though I am mourning the life I didn’t get to live due to the lies put forth by this doctrine
This reinforces my opinion that this is just another abusive cult founded by psychopaths.
@@sarahrosen4985 It is, Darby a nutty guy, Scofield was typical fraudster, and all those little groups are nothing but a cults.
Sorry that you had to grow up with that :(
I gotta say ideas have consequences and certainly your testimony is living proof of that. I've been around certain people in my Christian experience that were definitely on the fringes. And all I could do was step away from them. If in this Christian life you
find a worthy calling be careful to handle with care . I'm a partial preterist, not ever gonna ascent to any "rapture theology"!!!!
I first heard this catching away stuff in the early 70s with the so called Jesus Movement. Hal Lindsay and the Late Great
Planet Earth. I laughed all the way home!!
This idea is so ridiculous it's not even worth describing. Too many people are stuck with this misguided theology!!!!!!
So glad you have been set free from that… whom the Son sets free, is free indeed 🙏
I grew up in the Plymouth Brethren. A lot of solemnity, a lot of prayer, and a very literal interpretation of the bible. And no outsiders if you don't mind. I loved the left behind books when I was younger too. Imagined it would all be just like that.
Whatever it is and in whichever way it plays out just be ready for Jesus WHEN:you meet Him. If it bevwhen He comes again or when you die - whichever comes first! Just be ready!
I hate this sort of fear mongering so much. It's genuinely traumatic for people who are raised being told that this will happen.
Too much fear mongering and heavy handedness, and not enough love and acceptance was what caused many youth to flee the churches as far back as the 1960s, as shown in the film Jesus Revolution.
You literally stole those words out of my mouth !!! I agree with you 100%. What bunch of f*cked ups came up with these weird, scary, unsubstantiated fairytales ! The morons... And I can go on like this forever...
I was raised COGIC and they preached this nonsense so I was scared for a while then when I got older left and forgot about it 😂
Get ready to be surprised.
@@theway674 and may I ask how would we be surprised ? I'm curious...
Imagine my shock that something essential to Christian Fundamentalism has no basis in the Bible.
I grew up around a lot of Evangelicals and they don't know anything about the Bible. It's actually kind of weird. I made the terrible mistake of trying to date a girl who was a devout Evangelical back in the early 2000s. I studied the Bible to try to understand her. It... didn't go well. She was a nice girl, but her dad couldn't stand the possibility that I was either Catholic or Jewish.
Catholic OR jewish?
@@billbadson7598
My question as well....
@@billbadson7598 Basically, a Christian can be too pagan (Catholicism is considered overly pagan in flavour and thought by certain Protestant fundamentalists) or too symptomatic of the pre-Christ belief in God (Jews are considered in denial about Jesus being the Son of God).
@@iggyzeta9755 so was he catholic or jewish?
Well, are you a frequently knee bender or a non pork consumer? Inquiring minds want to know!
So i just found your channel, and i am on my third video during my binge watching and i love how every episode i have watched so far you mention a movie with nick cage in it 🤣
When I start seeing terms like “biblical scholars” and “in the Greek it really means this”, it fortifies that my belief in the Blessed Hope is correct.
As a teenager, at a friend's youth group in the 80s, we were shown a rapture movie. I don't recall the title, but it had me terrified for decades that any moment the rapture could happen and, would I be good enough to be taken up or would I be left behind? What about my loved ones? I now see these types of beliefs as acts of terror. Child abuse even!
A Thief in the Night? That's the normal one used to make kids terrified, or at least used to be.
I am so sorry to hear that, I can not imagine the terror you experienced.... This is one of the big reasons I've stayed away from most religious groups it's just fear mongering, trying to gain power, and control, and oppress people, meanwhile 80 percent of them are doing way worse things..... At the end of the day the only system that makes sense to me, is live, and let live within reason.
Get over it you baby. You were fine.
@neila6340 😂👍 and there's that lolol.
Climate change fearmongering is way worse, tho.
As an atheist turned Christian I read the Bible on my own many times before going to a church. Once I began attending in the early 90s I was surprised by the "Pre-tribulation Rapture" doctrine. I had never read anything in the Scriptures that prepared me for this doctrine. I was fully prepared to go through the "10 Days of Awe" and joyfully embrace my destiny as a soldier of Christ standing against the Beast system "occupying" until Jesus returned. In the 30 years of rigorous study since then I am more againItst this doctrine than ever. I agree with Corrie tenBoom.
What do you agree with Corrie Ten Boom about?
Who is Corrie tenBoom?
@carywest9256 She is a Dutch Lady who hid Jews during the German occupation in WWII.
They are afraid suffering and hardship. I believe that it's a part of being a Christian myself.
@@paulbegley1464 I agree
Very well done!
The amount of terror this brought me as a teenager and still to this day is something I’ll never get over sadly.
There's a certain arrogance in believing that the world must come to an end while the believer is living in it.
I think to most rapture believers It's not belief that the world must come to and end while they're alive, just that if it does, they're gonna be spared the experience. Though maybe it originated the way you've described it when Paul was helping early Christians to cope with it not arriving soon enough.
John 16:33
“These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.”
That's why I converted to Madness. May Chthulu and his Elder God entourage eat me first and spare me the horror of their wrath on the rest of the world.
John 6 39-54 Jesus says at the Last day four times
All doctrines here in Mystery Babylon say there's a thousand or more years after the day Jesus calls the Last day
How about that arrogance
@@squirreljones3595 a day is 1,000 years in this case. The last day literally means the last 1,000 year period of time in God's 7,000 year plan to redeem the earth.
To this day, I still cannot believe this content is free. This is the only channel on this platform that I have ever felt like donating to.
Excellent! Thank you 🙏🙏
For anyone who doesn't know what a parasang is, three parasangs is about eleven miles, which is twice the height of Mount Everest or twice the altitude at which commercial airplanes fly.
Sounds like the rapture to me💁🏾♀️
I grew up going to Catholic schools and was taught that the Rapture was a weird Protestant idea that they came up with because they didn’t want to admit that they would suffer even though Good Christians suffer throughout the Bible. Just what I learned in school.
Brutal but kinda true. American Evangelical protestantism, especially the “health and wealth” and word of faith Pentecostal types have a real problem with suffering. Some genuinely believe that Christians who suffer disease and the like only do so because they don’t have enough faith. Contrast that with Catholic and Orthodox theology surrounding suffering. Night and day.
If you think about it, it sounds like when the end of days does happen. Which i sort of assume will be a cranking of the pain and chaos to 11, wouldnt experiencing such suffering make evangelicals apostasize?
As a European ex-Catholic, I was just told that "Rupture" is just another English world for "Second Coming" or "Final Judgement". I'm only now learning how weird it really is.
But Catholics do not teach the full truth in regard to Jesus
@@RaptureReadyforJesus-qv2ql the churches which descend from Jesus and Apostles are that of the Holy Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Churches, we've stood for millenia teaching about Christ
I'm an exchristian in Latin America and although for a few years I had realized how biased were the Bible interpretations I was thought, it had never crossed my mind how this core belief was really not standing on solid ground at all. It's been long since I refused to continue believing in their ideas, but after watching this I feel lied to. I understand belief systems are complex and nuanced, but the community I grew in has this idea so fixed in both belive and practice that you would think it was more coherent within its own context and theology, but it's holding to thin air only and being used as a huge threat to all behavior of beliveres
i am catholic from south america, and when i was little i always though it was strange about why the rapture was not in the bible despite the american media describing it, Then I realized that it was just a belief of the evangelicals from there XD
Así que hablas español? :3
@@raulnatokapa pero por supuesto
@@rfij3268 yeah totally, I just bought it from the constant repetition of the interpretation of that one passage
@@raulnatokapa y yo tambien compa
I am remembering the story of George W Bush telling President Chirac that attacking Iraq was necessary to fulfill prophecy of fighting Gog and Magog, and Chirac (a Catholic) needing to call up the leader of the union of French Protestants to find out what Bush was even talking about. You can imagine the call back after the French Protestants read up on weird American fringe theology and had to tell Chirac “we’re afraid the US President is trying to start the apocalypse sir.”
I really appreciate what you do here (on this channel).
As an ex-evangelical who read the full left behind series (😂), this video brings healing. I'm shocked to learn that this is a fringe idea within Protestant Christianity! But i really shouldn't be. I feel closer to hope with everything with I unlearn. Thank you so much for this and your channel, your work 🙏🙏🙏
SAME! THIS WHOLE VIDEO SHOOK ME. It brings healing, but also anger. I'm feeling very mixed emotions right now.
@@addisondrudge6908 totally understand the anger! Take care of yourself; looking after yourself during this kind of thing is super important
I'm Jamaican and all denominations there teach about the rapture. I don't know about Roman Catholics though
@@RollingCalf my mother is Jamaican and was raised SDA. Rapture theology was denounced and criticized by them.
@@xaayer i was raised in Sunday church
I'm a simple man. ReligionForBreakfast new video? Me happy
Same lol
Thank you for your work😊
Awesome video!
When I was younger, growing up in church, one of the biggest problems I had with youth leaders or anyone in the church was their wholesale adherence to rapture theology. If you asked them to show you simple things-like the chronology of where it comes from in the Bible-you would immediately draw personal criticism. Having studied so much Christian and Jewish texts over the years I have just accepted that churches are places for social gathering and belonging, not much else.
When it comes to protestantism, you couldn't be more right.
I highly recommend “the meaning and end of religion” by Wilfred Cantwell Smith!
@@Apinetree123 Yeah the Catholics have kinda a long record of making up extra-Biblical beliefs as well. Papal infallibility, transubstantiation, abortion bans, celibacy of the priesthood...
Agreed
The problem is that modern Christianity is often preached from a position of complete and total divorce from its original contexts, by preachers who are either ignorant of that context or desperate to make their faith more 'relevant'. Fanfiction piles on top of fanfiction, until nobody can articulate why they believe certain things anymore. It's not only the twisting of the Bible's origin messages, but also the advancement of things that you yourself might not believe but some past preacher did and you're just parroting that along in a game of telephone.
I seriously can’t convey how scarring the idea of the rapture was for me as a kid. It didn’t just terrify me whenever I wasn’t aware that my parents and siblings were out of the house; it left me feeling responsible for the souls of every kid around me. The pressure it burdened me with has lingered well into adulthood, even if it no longer has to do with the rapture specifically.
I know exactly what you mean. I had the added curse of feeling like I had to repent over and over again whenever the rapture anxiety would well up, and would get caught in an OCD-like tick until the anxiety subsided.
I hear you. I too grew up with rapture theology. Now I see that Christianity in general creates a life crushing burden to get the world saved and guilt and shame when we can't do it. Even if we believe we are forgiven everyday it still doesn't change the sense of failure.
Your comment makes me sad. I hope I don't sound condescending, but that is an awful thing to do to a child. A child should be raised with love, hope and understanding, not fear.
Yes, a friend I knew would always run the water in her sink to see if it turned ....red.
The big question. What other doctrine have you bought that has been surmised by men, to be sound, yet little scriptural evidence? It makes no sense that if Christ is to return, and rule, what is the obsession with thinking going to heaven is being with the lord, if he's on earth ruling?
So it is, with the trinity, and a host of man made religious ceremony, and Idolatry.
Thank you very much for this video. Very interesting and useful.
Great video. I have some familiarity with 17th century history and especially the religious ferment in England in the 1650s. Premillenilaism is a powerful force here and the work of Christopher Hill on cocepts of Antichrist and the broader chaos (with a great summary in his 'The World Turned Upside Down') shows some of the popular roots of these later developments in North America. A little dated now, but a great read.
Do you know about the Jesuit Priest Manual Lacunza? Isn't that who Darby originally got his info from?
I've been a Christian all my life. I never even heard of "the rapture" till a few years ago and it was so weird to hear of it. It's like fundamentalist Christianity is a totally different religion, I don't recognize much of the faith I grew up with in fundamentalism, and at times, it's the complete opposite of what I was taught.
As an ex Christian I find the diversity within Christianity fascinating, and sometimes entertaining
@@MaryamMaqdisiwhy are you ex one?
Yep, like it's no longer enough to be 'Saved'... now American Evangelicals gotta invent ever more 'extreme' examples of their 'Specialness' (aka, Narcissism).
It is not as if the rapture is a completely new idea. It can be traced back to the Old Testament stories of Enoch and Elijah being taken alive into heaven.
@@EinsteinsHairthose were single persons and it had nothing to do with Jesus or the end-times.
This topic has been one of the many culture shocks I’ve experienced as I’ve transitioned out of Christianity. The fact that most people don’t believe the Rapture as fact was so odd to me. I was raised with it as a pure fact, that it was coming literally any day now, and you better be good or you’ll be left behind! Living life as if the world could end any minute is not good for the mental health, or the development of a child.
It's not only most people; most variations of Christianity don't subscribe to the idea either. It seems to be an American thing. Shrugs.
Even though American Evangelicals call themselves "Fundamentalists" who profess to take the Bible literally, in fact much of their doctrine is based on very creative readings of the text and even dream revelation. I grew up in a community like that myself, and I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that they're living in a wholly different reality than the rest of the secular world.
But works great at keeping flock quiet and obedient. That's all there is to it.
That's quite sad, because if you've been sealed with the holy Spirit of promise you will not be left behind. You get sealed with it the moment you understand the gospel and trust on the blood of Christ that he shed to pay for your sins, and that he rose again on the third day.
Question is, have you had that moment of believing on Christ, or were you just a churchian who went to church and believed you'd get to heaven because you go to church and are good enough ?
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
---
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
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8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
----
9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?
10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
^^ from this we can see that God sees turning from ones evil ways as a work. So turning from sin is a work. And works don't save.
@@mkovis8587 When someone says they're an ex-Christian it's safe to assume they've already read the scriptures. Citing verses at them is not productive, or respectful.
No matter what bogus fabrications have been made regarding the "rapture" doctrine, it is NEVERTHELESS clearly taught in the Bible. The whole idea of being "caught up to meet the Lord in the air" is what the Bible explicitly teaches. Forget about eschatological timelines, prophetic charts, or how all the events leading to the revelation of Christ will "exactly" unfold, the reality is that there will be a "rapture", and believers who have not yet died will be snatched away to eternal glory.
Totally agree. Once again humanity is totally hoodwinked. Read the bible yourself and let the SPIRIT of our Father reveal the TRUTH.
I was 25 years old the first time I read the New Testament, so I came into it with no preconceived ideas, and never talk to anybody about it, I just wanted to read it for myself. I was actually surprised when someone mentioned to me that there is a pre-tribulation rapture because I did not see that anywhere in the Bible. I studied it closer and it wasn’t there. I am very happy to see more and more people are coming to realize there is no pre-tribulation rapture, just the second coming of Christ after tribulation.
Agree!!❤
It IS THERE! Read Thessalonians. It is also referred to many times in other places. You have to know what it is talking about tho.
What people don't understand is just what constitutes tribulation (You really do need eyes to see and ears to hear what the spirit is saying. Read the books that were removed from the bible, Jude the apostle recommends a prophet called Enoch. I have the R.H. Charles rendition. You find an on line copy for free. Just copy, and paste in you dockets. Seriously there were books removed from the canon over the years, But by the grace of God Some have been returned. These really are the keys to the kingdom that were removed. You need the Holy Spirit to understand the scriptures not mans interpretation of them trust in Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.
@@jbmac4889 You’re correct that a number of books that were available during Jesus’ time have been systematically buried. The apostles quoted from the book of Enoch. I’ve actually read it before but it was way over my head. So many people have a few scriptures that they know by heart but don’t really appreciate what all there is to truly having wisdom. That can take a lifetime of study. Lord bless you in your personal pursuit of understanding!
ITS there Dear Just Gotta have the spiritual eyes to SEE it 100% Pretrib
As someone who grew up in the Bible Belt, went to Christian school, and had periodic panic attacks over the Rapture, this is honestly very reassuring lol. Rapture anxiety is so real.
It was traumatic when the church tried to brainwash me about this. I got muscle shakes, couldn't sleep.
I only had one nightmare from it, but it wasn't pushed too aggressively on me except during the stretch I had that nightmare. It was by some "only God is keeping me from murdering babies left and right as I see them" conservative Sunday "school teacher." Thankfully, I had already watched the more Western-Enlightenment/folk-Eastern-themed animes on TV/DVD called Howel's Moving Castle and Spirited Away, respectively. The nightmare involved the sky darkening, and some half vulture/crow big nosed dark wing "angels" descending in hosts/garrisons and one going to every household and asking if people had put the holy-water on their noses or not, as a sign of their faith. There was some sadness involved with I or someone in my family not having done it perhaps running out of time, then I woke up and realized how dumb a "some are left behind flight-rapture" would be (the whole "disappearing" didn't make sense with Paul's literal letter). Then I read some passages in the "O.T." that were supposed to relate to the final judgement, etc. And they literally said that Yahweh/God would "test people like gold and silver are tested through the fire" AT THE END TIMES, so it didn't make sense that he would not test some of "his" people given he didn't mention that some would be excluded in that O.T. passage. Bibliolatry is so ignorant and damaging.
me too! distancing myself from christianity and then starting to learn about the roots of it for myself (through channels like this) have healed so much of my religious trauma and have helped so much
Rapture anxiety
12 years old
Wake up alone
No phone no internet no tv
".....welp.."
Couldn't tell you how many times that happened to me. Felt on purpose around when I stopped counting.
Oh God, you unlocked a memory to me I never knew existed. Our family weren't super religious by any means, but I did grow up in a Christian household and I read a lot when I was a kid. I stumbled upon books explaining the Rapture, and for nights then, I could sleep. It's just so terrifying getting left behind to suffer for eternity to kid me back then.
Enoch’s mysterious departure - right before the Flood - was prophetic of how “the righteous” will escape the next great judgment of the World-system.
Consider that John may have experienced the Rapture when he was told, “Come up here.”
I used to be interested in this. When I was 17 my mom gave me 'The Late Great Planet Earth," and that's where i familiarized myself with it. For years i debated, read etc. But now all I can think is, "The energy that goes into debating this stuff could be so much better used elsewhere, like working to provide food and shelter to those in need. Since it's not possible to know what this is supposed to mean, why are we still debating it?
Rapture trauma appears to be common as I read the comments, so glad I am not alone and crazy.
I didn’t grow up Christian, but I did grow up in a very evangelical Christian area. I had heard the stories about Jesus being born and resurrected and all that, but I only heard about the rapture as a teenager. I found it very confusing why anyone believed it lol. This video definitely helped me get a better idea of where it came from!
This was very well done. I hope there can be similar videos made regarding other problem doctrines Christianity believes. Such as Sola Scriptura, the history of the trinity and non Christian Emperors, the removal of Bible books by Martin Luther and the reformists, preaching the free gift of the gospel for personal gain, the condition of the soul between death and the resurrection, the condition of people after the resurrection. Things like that. Most Christians are confused about such things and more. Although God is not one of confusion, Christianity is full of confusion with its 45 thousand different denominations, and over 900 versions of just the English translation of the Bible. Yeah, there is a lot of work to be done.
thank you for explaining this. seemed weird i couldn't find it in the Bible. i appreciate your perspective
It's almost nauseating to learn the history of the beliefs I was raised on like this, thank you so much for laying it out so clearly.
American born religions are especially batshit crazy. I mean, app religion is a tool for control, but yeah...
All you had to do was read the Bible, you would of found there was no rapture. The only person raptured was Enoch
@@terintiaflavius3349 How many "Reapings"?
What a fascinating video! I grew up in an evangelical church where all 5 pastor/elders politely disagreed with each other on end times theology. If I remember correctly there was one holder of each of the four eschatological variations, and the Dispensationalist was viewed as the fringe one. (Makes sense, because every time I study Christian theology and someone says "here are the range of views and this one is the most extreme," my church almost always chose the extreme one lol.) The Left Behind books were viewed in my church as silly fiction to satisfy the mainstream Christians who didn't get the real nuances of eschatology. We were very into John Piper and I recognize hearing Darby and Scofield's names come up too. Now that I'm an adult who thinks for myself and explores spirituality on my own terms, videos like these bring back memories of Sunday School debates I haven't thought about in years! Thanks for the education @religionforbreakfast , it's a huge part of my adult growth!
Churches, and religions in general, are usually very tolerant to very different eschatological views. They rarely establish any official view of it.
@@josepheridu3322 That's because the only time they stop being tolerant of differing eschatological views...is when they become doomsday cults.
If you're not a doomsday cult, you have no stake in the minutiae of the end of the world. But if you are, then nothing matters more.
Brilliant analysis
My dad believes in the rapture and tribulation
I was just a kid when he introduced this subject to me I remember that I used to have nightmares about it and afraid of the apocalypse everyday
In Brazil where I am from they believe it 100% of the rapture,I had to watch videos and read scriptures about it
Watching this video I am shocked because I never had this education since we thought the whole world knew about it lol
I appreciate the video ❤
As a Catholic, I am taught that the "rapture" described in the New Testament occurs only when Christ returns. Based on scripture, it seems this is after the Tribulation, but just before the Wrath. There is nothing in scripture that says Christ will return twice!
As a Catholic, you need to look long and hard at what you've been taught. I understand the difficulties with end-times issues and we can't be dogmatic. Be reconciled with God and grow up in all things in Christ. Then let God be God and work things out as He sees fit.
Oh, yes, there is. He does not come down to the earth at the rapture. That's why it is the catching away. We are caught up together with Him in the clouds. When He returns and sets His feet on the Mount of Olives, He comes as a judge.
*_God Bless_*
Jesus the son of Almighty God Jehovah returned in 1914 and will soon destroy all but one of some 30,000 different religious groups claiming to represent Jesus Christ and Almighty God Jehovah give praise to his name and keep living...
@@grahamjones548can you tell us more about this Jesus that came in 1914?
Thank you. I grew up and was educated in one of the larger Christian sects, I had heard of The Second Coming of Christ, it was barely spoken of and wasn't part of the theology I was taught, but I had never heard of this Rapture thing until I encountered a comedy critique of "Left Behind" on the internet. The idea that this is a major belief boggled my mind.
I grew up Catholic, and I remember being explicitly taught that a lot of Bible passages were metaphors. I remember reading some passage that said that people had halos made of flames or something after hearing Jesus talk, and my teacher telling us directly “their heads weren’t on fire, it’s just that saying they were awed and enlightened doesn’t properly convey how they were feeling”. I never even heard of the rapture until I got older and saw people talking about it online. Interpreting the Bible literally leads to some strange stuff
@@stella-kc7tp Exactly.
I grew up Plymouth Brethren and the fact that Darby’s Dispensationalism so completely permeated American Evangelicalism truly baffles me. Most don’t even know who he is or think he was a cult leader (rightly so imo).
The problem is that people just don't understand the point of prophecy, it's not there to tell us exactly what will happen so we can prepare for it, it's so we can see God's foreknowledge while we're living through it. It's supposed to be for our comfort, not for us to worry about the future.
Jesus taught the rapture ...
John Chapter 14
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
I like this one: _The Americanization of the Apocalypse: Creating America's Own Bible_ (2023, Oxford) by Donald Akenson
I grew up in an extremely conservative religious family. The church we went to had literal "Rapture drills" in which we had to practice. We would watch videos about the rapture all the time. This was all terrifying and caused me so much trauma. It took me years into my adulthood to deprogram myself from the mental abuse that I went through. That's what mostly drove me away from being a religious or dogmatic person. I do believe that teaching such concepts are dangerous for children as it is a form of abuse. Evangelical practices are gross.
Evangelicals are only conservative relative to the 1950s, anytime before that and they'd be mega fringe.
Orthodoxy is the way.
@quantum5147 Stop with the terrifying nonsense. You probably look at all sorts of different vampire and demonic movies but yet the rapture is so terrifying lol
@@christiansoldier77 it's not biblical, but it's scary because of ambiguity, but then again we could be wiped out by forces of nature at any time any way, so we should just hope in the resurrection.
Orthodoxy is the way.
@@ThumbKnuckle It is biblical. The bible literally speaks about multiple times. It isn't scary . What is scary about joining with Jesus ? No we are not going to be wiped out by nature. That's a myth created by the climate change people.
@@christiansoldier77Children are not typically exposed to horror films or told to believe they are true, with the threat of eternal damnation as a consequence of disbelief. But the real damage to children is epistemic: if you are told doubt is sin, never develop the critical thinking tools required to question what you're being 'taught,' and are fed ideas you are unable to break down, you're being brainwashed. As an adult that damage is compounded when you realise how much time you have lost and how much work you will need to put in to achieve parity with people who have been raised to think pluralistically. It's not just an intellectual crisis for the individual, all this takes an emotional toll which you will also need to overcome, usually without the support of your immediate family (who caused the damage in the first place).
Thanks!
😇 What is the difference between the Rapture and the Second Coming? 😇
The rapture and the second coming of Christ are often confused. Sometimes it is difficult to determine whether a scripture verse is referring to the rapture or the second coming. However, in studying end-times Bible prophecy, it is very important to differentiate between the two.
The rapture is when Jesus Christ returns to remove the church (all believers in Christ) from the earth. The rapture is described in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:50-54. Believers who have died will have their bodies resurrected and, along with believers who are still living, will meet the Lord in the air. This will all occur in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye. The second coming is when Jesus returns to defeat the Antichrist, destroy evil, and establish His millennial kingdom. The second coming is described in Revelation 19:11-16.
The important differences between the rapture and second coming are as follows:
1) At the rapture, believers meet the Lord in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17). At the second coming, believers return with the Lord to the earth (Revelation 19:14).
2) The second coming occurs after the great and terrible tribulation (Revelation chapters 6-19). The rapture occurs before the tribulation (1 Thessalonians 5:9; Revelation 3:10).
3) The rapture is the removal of believers from the earth as an act of deliverance (1 Thessalonians 4:13-17, 5:9). The second coming includes the removal of unbelievers as an act of judgment (Matthew 24:40-41).
4) The rapture will be secret and instant (1 Corinthians 15:50-54). The second coming will be visible to all (Revelation 1:7; Matthew 24:29-30).
5) The second coming of Christ will not occur until after certain other end-times events take place (2 Thessalonians 2:4; Matthew 24:15-30; Revelation chapters 6-18). The rapture is imminent; it could take place at any moment (Titus 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:50-54).
Why is it important to keep the rapture and the second coming distinct?
1) If the rapture and the second coming are the same event, believers will have to go through the tribulation (1 Thessalonians 5:9; Revelation 3:10).
2) If the rapture and the second coming are the same event, the return of Christ is not imminent-there are many things which must occur before He can return (Matthew 24:4-30).
3) In describing the tribulation period, Revelation chapters 6-19 nowhere mentions the church. During the tribulation-also called “the time of trouble for Jacob” (Jeremiah 30:7)-God will again turn His primary attention to Israel (Romans 11:17-31).
The rapture and second coming are similar but separate events. Both involve Jesus returning. Both are end-times events. However, it is crucially important to recognize the differences. In summary, the rapture is the return of Christ in the clouds to remove all believers from the earth before the time of God’s wrath. The second coming is the return of Christ to the earth to bring the tribulation to an end and to defeat the Antichrist and his evil world empire.✝️🐀
One thing I never understood is, if the rapture really happened, it would prove beyond a doubt the truth of one branch of evangelical Christianity. So wouldn't the rapture, realistically, lead to the conversion of those left behind? And wouldn't that be a bit of a problem for the Antichrist?
Not always. If conspiracy theory project blue beam is true. The rapture would be the best time to discredit christainity by including ww3, total blackout so mass loss of communications along with a fake alien invasion 😂. Far out oh ya! But maybe truth is stranger then fiction lol
This was the thing that struck me most about it. I think that it's probably that evangelical Christians find it inexplicable that people don't already believe evangelical Christianity, which feels obvious to them. So it seems to them that such people would continue not to believe.
@@goodlookingcorpse Makes sense. But then they might just as well stop trying to convert people.
Mass alien abduction. ⚡⚡
my theory is that the rapture has already occurred and a very small group of good people left but no-one noticed.
I grew up in a hardline Fundamentalist Baptist church and this was probably their biggest obsession. Every tiny thing that happened in the news was "proof" that the rapture was imminent. Usually coupled with the "at no time in human history has it ever been this way or have we been so close to Christ's return." Which is funny, because 28 years after saying goodbye to this scene, I have family members who still say the exact same things to me, word for word. They even still think Russia is going to be behind the whole Antichrist thing.
Which is to say I consider the concept of "The End Times" to be a complete joke.
The Russia part tracks, unfortunately. An "attack from the uttermost north" is hard to picture coming from anywhere else.
@@normanclatcher Doesn't track, I'm from Canada so to us Russia is either east or west, not north.
Either the uttermost north is supposed to be global (see Russia relative to Canada's Northern Territories not being very north-y) or it's supposed to just be within Iron Age scopes. (Or you're implying Russia has invaded the North Pole, which i'm pretty sure you're not, but I never know, breatharians exist.)
@@neoqwerty The attack is supposedly on Israel, and the read I subscribe to is that it's on the location of the modern nation-state of Israel, in the Levant.
Go north and you find the destabilized states of Syria and Lebanon- north of them, Turkey- north of _them,_ Russia.
Gog of Magog: Rosh (Russia), Prince of Meschech (Moscow) and Tubal.
I just want to point this out because you are so smug. If the end times happen in the future, then every moment we move forward puts us closer to the end times. The past is further from the end times. So everyone tell you that we are closer to the end times is correct.
@@neoqwerty jokes on you, its canada after yall go full communist
The Scripture versus that say things like “two men working in a field, one is taken and one left”, does not refer to a “rapture”. Jesus throughout the Gospels was prophesying the end of the temple and Israel, but no-one would listen. Being ready, means ready for those being taken away by Romans to be tortured and/or killed. How this turns into believers being caught away, I have never understood.
In Luke 17, 35,36,"One is taken (not killed). In the original Greek, from para lambano, to receive from,. The other left,from apo hiemi, left alone,sent away. Also not necessarily killed. One is received,or taken,one is left behind. In verse 37, the word "vulture" is mistranslated in the original manuscript.The Greek word is aeotos,which is clearly "eagles" ,not vultures. This verse is still a mystery,what does it mean? Because Eagles do not gather around dead bodies,eagles eat live prey. And the people of Jesus day,which was an agrarian society,knew this. It was purposely mistranslated because apparently the translators knew that only vultures gather around dead bodies. But it's there in Luke 17amd Matt.24,purposely written down as Eagles,not vultures. But here's the thing you missed.Luke 17:37,The apostles ask "WHERE" when Jesus says they were taken,received. Where were they taken? Jesus doesn't answer that. But those who say taken means killed,they're wrong. The apostles wouldn't ask 'where"if they understood it was killed.
Without a rapture,and it must be Pre trib,you have some major contradictions in scripture. Now here's my proof for a Pretrib rapture. Jesus taught He could return at any time. This is called the doctrine of imminency. Jesus and the apostles wrote about this many times. But in a post rib view,there is no imminency. Why,because the number of days is specifically mentioned in Daniel12: 11 “And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days.This is confirmed in Rev.13:5. Now,Jesus directly referred to the "abomination"in Daniel. There is no Jesus can return at any time,so we have to keep watch and be ready,in post trib. All we have to do is wait for the Antichrist to enter the temple and perpetrate the abomination,and the countdown begins. 1335 days when the "abomination"takes place,and the daily sacrifices are abolished,and the Messiah,who is Jesus,returns to set up His kingdom reign. There's no arguing this,it right there plain as day. Jesus directly quoted this verse in Daniel 12. Do you think the Jews didn't know this prophecy? Well the Pharisees surely did. So why would Jesus teach that He could come at any time? Why should we "be sober and alert,keeping watch over the signs of His coming .The apostles also taught this saying that Jesus could come like a thief in the night,unexpectedly. How can that be?Tell me please. Daniel 12 is clear,the Messiah,Jesus,comes to set up His kingdom,1335 days,after "the abomination of desolation,and the daily sacrifices are stopped".WHy should we watch for the signs in Matt.24?You see,it's only the rapture,which IS NOT Jesus coming down to set up His kingdom,and judge the Earth. The rapture is us,1 Thess 4: being taken away,into the clouds,to meet Jesus. Then the tribulation period will begin.
2. Jesus taught His return will be just BEFORE, the judgment of the world, like in "the days of Noah",where people were living their lives,"business as usual",making plans for dinner,to get married,and see their children marry,etc.And they were completely unaware that judgment was upon them. So,here's a scriptural contradiction,Rev.6:12 I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the [h]moon became like blood. 13 And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind. 14 Then the sky [i]receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place. 15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?” See that? These people ARE aware that God's judgment is upon them,and they're terrified! And this is just the beginning of the tribulation period. Jesus taught He would return just BEFORE the judgments begin, this has to be pretrib. Matt.24:38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. 43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect. Verse 40,this is the rapture. They're taken (away),not killed. It's very clear,they're not killed,they're taken.And the other was left. It's absurd to believe that people will be eating and drinking (eating and drinking what? With all the famines,plagues, earthquakes,1/3 of all the green grass burned away,1/3 of the ocean dies,even if there is food in certain areas,1/3 pf all the ships destroyed.And this in just one of the trumpet judgments!) making plans to get married,and see their children grow up and marry?! People living their lives,business as usual,during the tribulation? No way! So again,The Rapture is NOT Jesus returning to set up His kingdom. That does happen at the end of the tribulation period,ok? The rapture is US,the Church, being taken away into the cloud to be with Jesus. And then,the wedding feast of the lamb will begin,while the tribulation begins on Earth.And,further confirmation of this is in Matt.25,the parable of the bridesmaids. Remember,the ones who ran out of oil were left out of the wedding feast? The wedding feast will be celebrated when the church,the bride,is raptured. Here's the last thing, in post trib,what event signifies the tribulation has begun? Give me an answer. In pretrib,it's the rapture that begins the tribulation period. And the rapture itself,IS a judgment being pronounced upon the world.
Point 3:Now did the apostles know what the church was when Jesus taught "Upon this rock I shall build my church,and the gate of hell shall never prevail against it"? No! They didn't know what the church was. That word ecclesia meant "called out ones". Who was that? Did they know the church would be mostly gentiles,under a new covenant,that would abolish the old covenant? No. Not for decades. Only Paul had the "mystery"of the church and the rapture revealed to him.Thirty plus years later. Only the writer of Hebrews knew there was going to be a new covenant,that would abolish the old covenant. Because the new covenant was for gentiles,the church. So,in the Olivet discourse,in three of the gospels, when Jesus taught about His returning,they,and everyone listening to Jesus,who knew the prophets, had no clue about the rapture.Because they didn't have a clue about what the church was! They only knew the Day Of the Lord,which comes at the end of the tribulation. Everyone who followed Jesus was looking for the Messiah to come and set up His kingdom reign. Now look up Revelation 13,5-8. There's another contradiction,one that breaks the promise Jesus made about the church. The Antichrist is given power and authority to conquer,or destroy,the "saints",for 1290 days (Daniel 12 again). Did Jesus teach "the gates of hell shall never prevail ...oh,but only until the Antichrist is revealed. Then the church will be destroyed. No Jesus made a promise to us,the church. These 'saints",or holy people in the Greek,are not the church,in the chapters of judgment in Revelation. And in part, they must be the 144 thousand Jews, from the 12 tribes of Israel.
@user-xq2bp2pg2u
All the more so that Jesus also said that two women would be grinding at the hand mill.
How could the hand mill point to our modern times ?? Do we heed little historical details hidden in the prophetic texts ?
@@deydrm "Like in the days of Noah" Noah wasn't taken he was "left behind" I don't really know the answer or care. It's of little or no concern compared to following Jesus' 2 commandments.
Missionary kid here, parents were southerners, and this was a huge wedge between my family and every other american family we met (not families from other countries, just Americans). My father considers this near heresy, pure wishful thinking that has no basis in the bible, reality or logic. I'm glad that he taught me to rebuff these pro-rapture arguments. Read the originals, the different versions of the originals, the translations, the different translations, context is everything and remember that each verse should strengthen the others, not force them to stretch beyond disbelief.
So you were abused as a child is what you are admitting.
@@kevchard5214WHAT are you on about
All mercenary children are abuse either sexually or mentally or both. @@chkingvictim
Look a little closer...Luke 21:36 (read it)...be careful of leading people astray...Jesus went to prepare a place for us and will be coming back in a time 'As in the days of Noah' people eating, drinking, marrying and given in marriage' (Mark 24:38) - this obviously is 'before' tribulation because tribulation is going to be so horrendous people will JUST be trying to survive
why are you mixing scripture? why must we take a reference in Luke and make it fit in with Mark and then bring it into Revelations? Why must you change the context? You are cherry picking to make it all follow poorly written fantasy fiction from the 20th century. Who was Luke written for? What was it talking about. Was it the same as for Mark? Revelations? No? Then stop spreading lies. None of this means "poof and you're gone, lucky you!" @@mdorn6592
I grew up Catholic, seriously Catholic. I was an altar boy, my sister was a lectern, my dad was in the Knights of Columbus, and my mother volunteered at the local nunnery, and believed unto her deathbed a concept of "Catholic Spiritualism" which involved talismen, special ceremonies, and such. My sister and I went to Catholic schools. That's how Catholic we were. After I left the Church as a teen, I started exploring other religions, mostly Protestant, but also other traditions like Buddhism, and ecumenical like Unitarianism. It was during that Protestant phase that I learned about this idea of the Rapture. From the beginning, I thought it would make an entertaining fictional book or movie, but people actually believe this stuff! It's like believing that Star Wars is a documentary.
Wait, what? Star Wars ISN’T real? But then how do you explain duct tape? It has a dark side and a light side, and it binds the universe together. How can you not see that as reflection of the Truth of The Force?? 😂
So what do you believe now?
Being an altar boy from a catholic family and going to catholic schools makes someone “seriously catholic“?
And here I was thinking that to be a true catholic is to understand and belive in the teachings of the catholic church and to love God with all our heart. 🤦♂️
more support for the idea of extraterrestrial influence, people getting beamed up into the clouds stuff.
more support for the idea that Evangelicals love Trump because they think that he is their best bet for being raptured.
When you went to church or math did they speak in Latin?
Very interesting
Very well researched
I never heard of the rapture while growing up, and I have tried several denominations. I don't remember when I first heard of the rapture, but my response was, huh? I finally read where the rapture idea came from and honestly it does pretty much state it.
I was raised as an evangelical and my family still are, and wholeheartedly believe in the Rapture. Even after I pointed out that the current rapture belief wasn’t believed by any Christian until the 19th century, it didn’t faze them one bit. If anything, they’re even MORE militant about it. You can’t choose your family, as the saying goes lol. Love your videos, very enlightening. Peace.
Was raised non-religious, discovered religion on my own when I was 12-13. Went to a Pentecostal Evangelical church for a while, saw some wild sh!+, moved on to a more traditional Evangelical church, went churchless for about 20 years, then started going back again around 2019. Decided to visit a Lutheran church. Really fell in love with the liturgy of the Lutheran church and have stayed there ever since. One of the first things I realized I had been lied to about was the Rapture, the Tribulation, literally the entire book of Revelation. It used to give me severe anxiety growing up, always afraid that I'd be "left behind", always depressed and sad and angry at myself for "sinning" (i.e., just being a teenager and existing). Now I see the book as more of an allegory. Maybe there is some prophecy, it gets really specific towards the very end with the new heaven and the new earth and stuff, but I'll be the first one to admit that I have no freakin' idea what Revelation is really supposed to be about.
I grew up in a Lutheran church (ELCA)
Not really a fan of that wing of Lutheranism anymore. More of a Missouri synod fan. That being said, if you like Lutheran liturgy, go spend time in a Catholic Mass or Orthodox Divine Liturgy. ❤
I recall a saying amongst other congregants in the Dispensational church I was part of until I knew better, “See you…here, there, or in the air.”
The current position of OOCL SHANGHAI is at China Coast reported 5 days ago by AIS. The vessel is en route to the port of Sydney, Australia, sailing at a speed of 17.1 knots and expected to arrive there on May 30, 20:00.