Sorry, I am ready to bring back effective insecticides like DDT and Chlordane. Not for nostalgia, but because they were incredibly effective. But we all know that the squeaky wheel gets the grease.
@@cornflowertoile3026 Here in coastal No. Carolina when the wind is coming out of the West across the many wetlands, the black flies are a menace. They don't seem to leave a lasting itch but they surely have an annoying bight. DEET has no effect on them. I find Lemon Eucalyptus can provide some relief, but only marginally.
Dude the best part about this channel is actually pushing the boundary to create new and really interesting content, not just endless gear reviews. This was such an interesting video!
My "In the city" insect repellent for 50 years has been powder. Shower to Shower which is mostly corn starch, and Gold Bond. Do the parts that count but then with your dusty hands run it over your neck, arms, face, exposed areas. Seems to work for me. In the woods - it's not enough. It was my understanding that Permethrin (or pyrethrin if they're are the same thing) makes bugs that land on it sick more than it's a repellent. For a hiking and climbing trip to Japan years ago I first treated my tent. I figured if 10% was good, 15% should be better...Even after it dried I started coughing whenever I went near my tent, so I hosed it, washed, and then retreated it with the lower recommended dose. In Japan what I noticed was different types of insects landing on my tent and getting sick, probably dying. Seemed kind of overkill. My treated shirts, pants, hats I treated seemed no problem. Most of the time I never see a dead insect. In my house for my girlfriend who's a mosquito magnet, I treated a mosquito net and draped it over the entrance to the hallway to our bedroom. Almost no mosquitoes but I also never found any dead ones near the netting. Later on my Japan trip in Hokkaido at the beginning of a two day hike I spray on some higher concentrate DEET, almost immediately I started throwing up. Everybody thought, well, he's done. But I washed it off. Later that day I encountered a bear. I had pesticide for it too. A can of bear spray, still in the package. Later I thought I should make sure I know how to use this. The cable tie on the package took a couple minutes of sawing with my knife. There was no way I could've used it on that bear. Instead I just kept walking past the bear loudly explaining my intentions, that 'we're cool.' Just like with mean dogs. By far the scariest critter encounter on that hike was when I flopped down to take a rest and a big centipede landed on my shoulder. They're poisonous. Now I'm sure I'm a bit more sensitive to the chemicals in these things than most people. If I use a repellent I use picardin. But here's something else I learned years ago in the woods of Cape Breton, Nova Scotia. Even if you have an effective repellent that works really well, there are situations where the mosquitos don't have to be attracted to you -- where they are so dense they're just going to bump into you. If you're hungry enough you'll eat stuff that would normally repel you. I think it's the same for mosquitos. They haven't survived since before the dinosaurs by being picky. And also based on my experience and my cars over the years, there are definitely fewer insects across the board in North America than there used to be. Probably also true in the UK, Japan and China. Maybe the whole world.
I am a professional landscape photographer from Brazil (jackdanielpro) and my large experience with deet and icaridin (picaridin) inside the Brazilian forests is: 1- Deet does NOT work into the wild jungles with less than 15%. I have tested. It does not work with less than 15%, period. With 20% of deet it has a good effect inside a real forest. However, deet has a problem to me which is that it reacts with plastic. This means that the textures and some delicate parts of my equipment will corrode with time when in contact with deet and it is IMPOSSIBLE not to happen while into the wild. You WILL get deet in your hands because real wild mosquitoes or whatever comes (there are a lot of different types of insects that get your blood inside Brazilian jungles) will suck blood from any part of your body including the palm of the hands. 2- About icaridin (picaridin). I start to sense real effect with 20% of icaridin inside the forests. With 25% of icaridin I have the exact same effect of 20% of deet. The percentage has direct correlation to power and not the amount of time it stays on your skin, which will always be 2 to 4 hours depending on how much you walk or run or rub the skin against the backpack or equipment. 25% of Icaridin does not reacts with plastic, but has the same effect to the respiratory system as a light pepper spray. And it is not possible to avoid sometimes spraying icaridin in your face. It will happen. Conclusion: I am pretty happy using 25%-30% of icaridin, since it does not destroy my equipment and has the same effect of 20%-25% of deet. I tried other solutions, none of them ever worked, only icaridin and deet... The percentages I wrote here are for wild jungles. if you are staying at home in the city, you will not need all that power for them to work.
Agree completely! DEET dissolves too many plastics, Picaridin does not. It is my most preferred repellent. I also dislike the smell and feel of DEET, while I have no issue at all with picaridin.
After spending over sixty years, camping, hiking and hunting, the ONLY time I was ever hurt was by a tick who put me in the hospital for a week. Damn right I am scared of ticks and mosquitos!! Thanks so much for this info!!!
I spent the last two summers ill after failing to catch ticks with Lyme disease. Almost through this summer without another full infection ... but there's always Fall.
Yeah 💯 I know people have died from Lyme disease and how to terrible rest of life as well as people suffering still through this day then I pulled a few off the dog this year and I was freaking out 😢
My wife is a mosquito attractor and gets bit all the time. She does not want to use DEET and insists on more "natural" citronella based repellant. It would a be cool comparison to see how these "natural" repellants fare against the ones in this video. Edit to add: Thanks for taking one for the team! I can't imagine sitting through that and just allowing yourself to get bit!
they work similar but require much higher application concentration and frequency, also will work best with a broad spectrum of oils not just one. such as "all terrain herbal armor". i prefer a spectrum approach long clothing treated with permethrin, and exposed skin treated with a repellent that works best in the region and with my level of activity. some mosquitos have been known to learn that certain repellents are worth chasing.
I work as a seasonal park ranger along the east coast. Ticks out here are an almost daily notice. Part of the work I do is outdoor maintinance, sometimes on established park facilities, sometimes out on trails. Over several years of this I have found my all time favorite is the permethrin treatment on my uniform. Sure, ticks still get on my clothing, but I wear long sleeves, boots, and pants. All treated. Then whenever I get out in the field for work, I use a deep woods deet spray for the mosquitos. The combo is a total win in my book.
You drone. Pyrethroids are PARALYTIC NEUROTOXINS. They repel NOTHING. They only kill post exposure. Effects on mammals include RENAL FAILURE and NEUROLOGICAL DISORDERS. Fuck ME people are stupid. DO YOUR HOMEWORK while you still have the mental capacity.
For what its worth, a combo of your Permethrin spray and 20% Picardin kept me bite free on a recent *very* buggy trip in the Desolation Wilderness, while my Deet toting friend got obliterated.... Big fan.
Permethrin and Picaridin has been a winning combination for me in the Boundary Waters Canoe Area, which is notorious for mosquitos. It makes camping MUCH more pleasant. One big issue with DEET besides the smell and greasiness is that it damages plastics. Food canisters, watches, sunglasses, etc.
Since I began treating my clothes and gear with permethrin I’ve yet to even see a tick. I live and hike in a heavily tick populated area and I contracted Lymes disease about 30 years ago. Permethrin works for me
Same. I was in northern minnesota in June with some people. One person in our group found eight ticks over the weekend and had not used permethrin. My son and I got zero ticks. I had treated our shirts, slacks, socks, shoes, tents, and sleeping bags.
Permethrin is extremely effective for me also. I went out squirrel hunting in the dead of seed tick season in the Midwest last year. Had some new boots on that I'd forgotten to treat with permethrin, but I had treated my pants, socks, and shirt. At the end of the day wading through tall grass, I took a piece of duct tape and used it on my boots to see if there were any ticks on them before climbing into the truck. The tape was *covered* with hundreds of seed ticks. I checked my pants and shirt, not a single one. Tick checked myself once I got home, zero bites, nothing. Perhaps they didn't shake the bottle before applying with this test? I've watched ticks literally fall off my pant legs after crawling only a few inches at most. The stuff is a necessity if you're out in the woods.
Long clothes and permethrin have been my go-to for years. When the mosquitos are bad at a campsite, I will put on my head net and just sit there for about a half hour smoking a cigarette or two. This gives most of the mosquitos in an area a chance to land on me and start to die off. I have wrecked some massive and vicious mosquito hoards this way. Just let them land and wait them out ...
Had decent results in Finnish Lapland with 40% DEET. "Off!", on the other hand... I once sprayed myself all over, and not only were the little beggars not repelled, I looked down at the can to see one drinking from the nozzle to impress his mates.
Soo the mosquitoes drank the repellent straight from the bottle just to show off how little it repelled them lol ? My experience here in North Norway is that only the thermacell works, it removes all mosquitoes downwind and a little area in front of it also so you can place it downwind from you and not inhale it yourself.
You'll have to be more specific about Off! That brand makes so many different products that you can't really paint it all with one brush. They sell everything from a citronella spray which does nothing, up to 85% deet, and everything in between.
@@a64738I used a picardin 10% spray in southern Norway, and even though mosquitoes and flies swarmed around me, none landed or bit me. I know the clouds of mosquitoes in the north are a bit different, but I’d recommend giving it a try!
Thank you!! It's very real for me. Vacationing in Calif at Malibu several years ago, and hiking in the Santa Monica mountains, my best buddy got West Nile. A week later he was paralyzed nose down. Three more weeks later we were spreading his ashes. He was 63, athletic, and had zero health issues. A simple application of Deet might've saved his life.
I remember camping in Malibu and being in an absolute cloud of mosquitoes, being bitten constantly! Scary to think about how some of them in that cloud can be lethal like that.
We have found the thermacells are great for when you have set up camp and are staying around a smaller area like a picnic table. After letting it run for a while we've noticed a decrease in biting and mosquitos flying around. When not in this situation we still use deet based sprays for everything else. I have to say, from someone coming from a science background. Its awesome to see some scientific method and actual openness about testing/results in these types of videos. Its also great to see you interacting with these different organizations and scientists. A wonderful way to bridge the gaps between the general public and research/science!
@@pinnacleexpress420 it's a chemical that is burned into the air so always potential there would be some effect but people have also been burning mosquito coils and aersolizing and spraying their skins or their clothing with chemicals as well for the same purpose 😂 I'm sure that's not good for us either
@@brentperron6914 I'm pretty sure aerosols and coil burns of that magnitude are completely and utterly harmless. But there are some insecticides too, I guess. Like the tick and flea killer, apparently that ones super human friendly. I doubt it, that's why I asked, but the thermocell thing could be cool
@@pinnacleexpress420none of my guests have noticed anything negative and we use 3-4 of them in our backyard. (3 for a "bubble" around our fire, one on the deck for sometimes when people smoke there) If you don't want to use sprays which are probably worse for your health, they're the next best thing.
Thanks for doing the experiments! I have some real world analysis... I just came back from a four day backpacking trip in the Inyo National Forest where there were a lot of mosquitos. I brought a fully charged Thermacell and set it up in the middle of camp each afternoon and morning where we enjoyed a relatively bug free zone of about 25 feet. As soon as you stepped out of the zone the mosquitos were swarming. Each morning before moving camp I applied the Sawyer Picaridin Lotion on both exposed areas (I was wearing shorts) and unexposed areas including my arms (wearing long sleeves) and I only had one or two bites for the entire trip. One of our group didn't apply any lotion on her arms and was bitten numerous times through her sun shirt. For 5 people over four days of hiking we went through half of a 4oz bottle of lotion and a single Thermacell refill. It all worked so well that I acquired a new trail name, The Terminator. BTW, bug nets were used by everyone while hiking since no one was comfortable putting the Picaridin on their face.
Years ago my sister hiked for a day in permethrin-coated pants with cuffs. We didn't notice many ticks until we stopped - the cuffs were filled with dead ticks. I've always been a fan of 100% DEET when mosquitoes are bad enough, but in general I try to take a Zen approach - ignore them. That works in Texas; it did not work in Pennsylvania or New Hampshire.
Consumer Reports did a test years ago which showed anything stronger than 40% Deet was not any more effective... so... don't need to overdo it with 100%. It melts plastic and ruins things.
I worked with Aedes aegypti and Dengue for many yrs at Colorado State University in the Arthropod-borne Infectious Disease Lab. While working in the field, DEET was the only product used. I think it's important to use as directed and it's perfectly safe. I just completed the PCT; Oregon and Washington's mosquitoes were horrible this year. I can honestly say that while I was using a Deet product I was never bit, I cannot say the same when I wasn't using it!
@@cornflowertoile3026 Sorry, I don't.There are a lot of claims that certain products do but I have found that isn't the case. Picaridin and 100% deet would be my choice to try.
My Thermacell experience going on 5 years; I place 3 thermacells upwind in my back yard and when camping. They reduce the numbers of mosquitoes that get through, and they definitely kill them. Thermacells don't repell and you will still get bites, but much less than without. My wife is a mosquito magnet and also uses the green deet, I think is 25% on top of the thermacells, it works for her mostly, with a few bites still making it through at the worst of times.
I volunteered on public lands in AZ for almost 18 years. We don't have ticks or (very many) mosquitos, but we do have Arizona biting midges. Nothing stops them. I used to stink like a can of bug spray when I got home, but it still did nothing to deter or stop them. The best defense (or maybe offense?) was firing up my two cycle brush cutter. Maybe they don't like the pungent smell of two cycle exhaust. Peppermint oil was somewhat effective. At least it has a better fragrance.
In Scotland and Ireland I use a product called smidge. It is Picaridin based. Our main problem is Ticks. Their number seems to have increased in the past 20 years. Luckily I have never had one as I wear long trousers and gaiters, avoid high grass and bracken and do a good check before I pitch and of my body (mobile phone helps for the back). Mozzies aren't so prevalent but I have endured swarms in the Baltics and Sweden. The bane of our existence is the midge. It doesn't carry any disease but just drives you insane. We need to wear very fine headnets The smidge is effective against ticks, mozzies and midges but not for as long as they claim. They say up to 8 hours. Note "up to". I'd say that is about 3 to 4.
Great video! I was just up in the Porcupine Mountains in the UP in late July. Permethrin treated clothing appeared to repel mosquitos fairly well during the day, but when the mosquitos started swarming at dusk it was completely ineffective. Regarding ticks, I wore permethrin treated pants and socks the entire time and never found a tick on me.
Treating my clothes with permethrin was a game changer. I am highly allergic and delicious to mosquitos. I used to use lots of high % deet all the time. But treated clothes has been a game changer. Treated clothes and a bug net and I am good to go!
Im a nurse anesthetist. Spent a majority of my adult life following only EBR (evidence based research). Your channel combines the 2 worlds of EBR and the enjoyment of backpacking/camping! Original and interesting content. Love your channel!
I just completed a canoe trip of 7 days 6 nights in the Northern Minnesota Boundary Waters Canoe Area. For this trip I had a set of clothes for daytime "wet" use while canoeing and portaging. And a set of "dry"" camp clothes to change into at our nightly camps once set up. I completely applied Permethrin spray to all my "wet" clothing garments including undergarments (socks, briefs, short sleeve shirt, pants, a long sleeve button down lightweight UV rated "fishing" shirt, and a wide brim hat). I applied the product per package directions to the clothes after they where freshly washed and dried. I allowed the clothes to fully dry out in the sun after application before packing for the trip. I feel like the permethrin application of the clothing absolutely worked to my and the package description for the results I experienced. I would get swarmed by mosquitos but would only get bitten on exposed skin and they seemed to be repelled by the product, I never noticed any landing on my clothing and trying to bite thru. And we had many portages, where I was told, that is when the mosquitos would swarm you and be the worst. I had a head net that I even rarely used because I was just not experiencing the swarming that I was warned of, and I believe its because I took the time to treat my clothing well and allow the product to "set in"' a few days before the trip. My dry clothes that I had only treated my socks definitely showed the difference. In camp I was swarmed by mosquitos unless I put my "wet" long sleeve shirt back on that was treated. So in summary the treated clothing worked to repel mosquitos in my situation. I did not measure out the amount of spray I applied to the clothing, I just made sure to thoroughly wet the clothes with the treatment. I used the Sawyer branded product in the yellow packaging that is widely available at many retailers. Thank you for this channel and all your content.
Did a trip to BWCA too and also treated my clothes--still got swarmed and bitten through basically all my clothes except the ones thick enough to physically stop them. It feels more like permethrin does a good job against ticks than mosquitoes for a mosquito attractor like me
Insects in the EPA test we asked if they enjoyed their meals and apparently said they would have preferred the untreated blood... but a free lunch is a free lunch.
Consistently awesome content as always, Steven. Love the intro, mitigating unfounded fears regarding things that aren't actually dangerous, just perceived as such (bears, mountain lions, etc). It's safer out in the woods than we think. We are fortunate to live somewhere without as much prevalence, or number of, deadly mosquito-born illnesses. But this is still great information, presented in a fantastic manner. You do outdoor UA-cam content like no one else! Also, props to Sawyer for their willingness to sponsor this video while also putting themselves on the line.
@@YSLRD That them makes them less dangerous. Danger = liklihood of exposure + nature of the animal. You obviously don't understand their nature and are just ignorantly fearful.
I have used Thermacell (the gas heated, not battery heated version) for a while now, and it works extremely well for me. When I arrive at a campsite, I'm normally swarmed by mosquitoes. I then turn on the Thermacell and after 15-30 minutes the entire area is mosquito free. I have tried turning it of again and I am then swarmed after a short while. I haven't tried the battery powered version, but the one you simply screw on to your gas canister works great.
I coat all my gear in permethrin & use picaradin spray before I head out. I’ve passed people being swarmed by mosquitoes with head nets on & I’m just cruising along not being bit. They work great for me! Can’t use deet because I don’t want to weld my bear can shut or melt my clothes.
Very well done video - instead of others (even TV stations) simply comparing "brands" you're actually doing the right thing by testing specific ingredients like DEET, Picaridin etc., because it simply doesn't matter whether you purchase DEET 7% from brand A vs. brand B - it's the ingredient that counts!
Exactly. brands mean nothing, it's the active ingredient that counts. Autan used to be a strong German anti mosquito brand (it worked because it had DEET) until it didn't because they replaced DEET with Icaridin, which honestly won't do much (for me).
Steven (Stephen?), you don't just repeat the "wisdom" from others but test to see what works and what doesn't. I'm a data analysis nerd at heart, so I appreciate your approach to common problems backpackers regularly deal with.
Then you should require this test to be repeated by hundreds of thousands of individuals. With all variables recorded to identify trends: atmospheric conditions, the air composition, time of day, species of mosquitoes, the participant's age, diet, sexe, hygiene standards, skin pigment, ethnicity, amount of hair, medication, diseases, etc. Then and only then would my Lisdexamfetamine fueled OCD data analysis fix be satiated.
As a Florida Bowhunter for 33 consecutive years, I can certainly say that Permethrin treated clothes is the best thing for ticks and chiggers. A Shannon's Bug Tamer is the best defense for mosquitos as well as a Thermocell which absolutely works very well after 10 minutes.
Gotta love a little science. As a nature photographer I have completely moved away from Deet. I learned tat lesson when I applied it on my hands and it MELTED the coating on the outside of my lens.
Deet works great against skeeters, but you are absolutely correct that it can totally screw with certain plastics. I will use deet all over, then completely wash my hands... I'll deal with a bite or two on my hands. I have yet to try picaridin "in the wild", so I don't know if it would work well, but apparently it doesn't melt your gear!
@@paulmckenna5224 🤣 The gear melt is bad. Thing is if it can do that to plastics and paint, what real damage is it doing to our skin and us?? In the UK there is a safe spray called 'Hedge Witch' and 'Moskito guard', apparently very good for the Scottish mosquitoes, ticks, fleas, Midges and horse fly. I'm going to give that a try I think.
I just finished a 3.5 week camping trip. We where in 19 states and 4 Canadian provinces and had flies,ticks and mosquitoes many places. We used off in incense sticks (if damp or high humidity they would not light). Thermacell, no noticeable effects. Deet seemed to work the best and most consistently. Thanks for the video.
Part of the problem with Sawyer Permethrin is that the amount of permethrin is .05% which is quite a small amount, Permethrin is also used for livestock and can be purchased at 30% permethrin and diluted a good bit.
There are two differences. Farm products are agricultural grade while the clothing treatments are pharmaceutical grade. Ag grade is not refined as much so it carries an odor which doesn't matter with animals. Also pharm grade formulas have a bonding agent built in to better adhere to the fabric. But if the ag grade works for you and you don't mind the smell you are good to go. You would have to reapply sooner without the binding agent but you probably dose up to help cover that. Ag grade would probably wash out sooner but it is less expensive to balance that.
In military we used the powder packs, I try to keep them on hand . Spray I find it needs a few applications and reapply every few washes or after a long camping trip. I use deet for mosquito on top of that. No complaints from me as a world travler. Other huge benefit for permethrin is tents, backpacks, and shelters
Those tend to have petroleum products in it which are oily, smell terrible, and can stain clothes. You can buy roughly 10% concentrations that do not have this, then mix to 1 to 1.5%. Also these products are 0.5%, not .05%. Big difference lol
@@KurtAvery-cs9lc The Sawyer brand has the same smell as the stuff for livestock. Both have some form of petroleum based substance in it and both have a binder/ liquid based evaporative substance such as B alcohol. I live in FL and use it every 4 weeks and it has never stained clothing.
@@MastaSquidge The Sawyer brand has the same smell as the stuff for livestock. Both have some form of petroleum based substance in it and both have a binder/ liquid based evaporative substance such as B alcohol. I live in FL and use it every 4 weeks and it has never stained clothing.
Another fantastic experiment exploring an important outdoors topic. For me, I haven't used a chemical repellent in decades as I've found them to be toxic to me and just plain ineffective. Plus, it's gross to sleep with those chemicals on my skin. During my 3-week Alaskan expedition in 2001, I used a simple, full Bug Net Suit by Coleman or Coghlan and it worked great in daily swarms.
Picaridin spray at even 15% on clothing works for me. I've heard from others that the lotion is ineffective. Careful with DEET if you're wearing synthetic fabrics as it will absolutely wreck them.
@@randytrashcan Maybe I'll try and give the Picaridin spray a chance on a shorter trip. I've never had any issue with DEET up to this point, and that lotion was an absolute catastrophe for me. Thanks for the heads up.
Years ago, my father and I were making repairs to a house someone recently purchased. The previous owner had a number of hunting dogs that he didn't take care of, and both the yard and the house were severely infested with fleas. The only way we could prevent them from biting us was to use 100% deet, sprayed on our clothes from the waist down. They would jump on us, then immediately jump off. We tried lower concentrations, which weren't as effective, but a good combination was 100% around the waist and boots, and a lower percentage sprayed overall.
This must have been so gross, thank you so much for doing it! I have autism and am recovering from a bad insect phobia. I used to literally not be able to go outside in the summer. I've done therapy for the phobia for about three years or so, and being outside is so healing for my heart, my nervous system feels just calmed right down being out in nature. Using bug repellant properly, and being able to make a good choice that takes into account my sensory issues and stuff is really important for helping me get better. Plus watching you get bit up is definitely good exposure for my phobia 😂 Thank you for doing something so uncomfortable!
I had no crawl in cereal spaces for my job. I do plumbing and I hate spiders with a passion. Like I'm deathly afraid of them. I freak out. Many customers heard me freak out. I have no shame. I jus don't like them so I get it.
Mosquitos here in humid Piedmont VA. are vicious this year! Deet is the only thing that works but you'd better cover every square inch of bare skin and spray your shirts too! I hate using deet so I've taken to wearing long pants, shirts, gloves and even came up with netting that drapes over head and shoulders held in place with my hat! It's so hot wearing long clothes but so nice not having to use deet every day. I look like a bee keeper tending to everything but it's the best way. Farmers have known this trick for ages which is why you see them fully clothed with long pants and long sleeves. Thanks for the test!
After many many years of backpacking, I use a mult-pronged approach. Deet (Ultrathon by 3M - lower concentration of Deet with long release time) on Skin (usually in specific areas - head, neck, wrists, waist, and ankles). Permethrin purchased at Home Depot in home/garden area (diluted) on outer clothing layers, pack, and shelter in spring and fall. Ensure it is completely dry before wearing/touching and keep away from animals while curing. Not discussed in the video, studies prove that mosquitoes are attracted most strongly to black, 2nd and 3rd tied red and blue colors. I wear khaki (or other muted colors) for my clothing as least attractive to mosquitoes. Long lightweight pants and shirt in evening during "hunting hour". My general gear pouch also contains a headnet for intense mosquito populated areas. Also, no camping near bodies of water. Simply moving a hundred yards makes a huge difference. Side note: There are many old wives tales in regards to concentration of Deet being more effective. It simply allows the products to last longer; not repell mosquitoes better. I have done numerous field tests over the years to come to these conclusions.
You're correct about light vs dark colours helping, but not a lot. Mosquitos are attracted most of all to CO2, and you can't stop exhaling that. (Well - you can - but only for so long as you can hold your breath). So keep wearing DEET & treating clothing with Picaridin. Bug bites are irritating, but Lyme Disease, Malaria, Dengue & West Nile disease are gifts that keep on giving for years, maybe for life. Feedback from family members who are foresters was that nothing works well except DEET, and it's not perfect. But that was before ticks became a menace in Canada. And while it's relevant that Picaridin eventually kills ticks or mosquitos, that comes AFTER they've bitten you & passed on whatever disease they're carrying: small consolation.
I treat my clothes and gear a couple of times a year with picaridin and then use permethrin lotion. Seems to work pretty well with no ticks and only rare mosquito bites. Deet makes me feel “off” when I use it and it tends to build up and get gross on a multi day trip.
I’ve watched ticks spaz-out and die on my weeks-prior permethrin treated tights while sitting at camp. Also a permitherin treated shirt worn over my head like a shawl has kept swarming mosquitos away from my face while eating, something a bug net can’t do. Also have had good luck preventing bites to uncovered skin with picaradin in heavy mountain swarms. And to beat that, I’ve been in those same offices and labs at NMSU…. Yay Cruceños! And yay deet not melting my synthetic fabrics while the vapors skeez me out.
I recently had some clothes treated with permethrin via InsectShield's mail in service. They send a bag that you fill with your clothes, return, they industrially treat them and send them back. They are like magic 🤩 So much so that the first time I wore them I was like "are they even out??", then took off my heavy gloves and they were definitely out! Most mosquitoes don't even try to land, they just fly right away after they get close. 10/10, would recommend.
I've treated my clothes and shoes with permethrin and used picaridin spray, and both seemed to keep the mosquitoes from biting. As far as I know, I did not get any tick bites either.
There is a great video on youtube from The Hunting Public where they tested permethrin by treating half a jumpsuit and then walking/crawling around in tall grass and comparing ticks crawling up each side of the suit. This wasn't a lab controlled test, but it did show that with proper clothing, ticks getting on low to the ground generally were falling off before they get up high enough to be able to get inside the clothes and find a suitable implantation site. I have had a ton of ticks, but none of them have ever been just latched on to exposed legs or arms, its always mid-section, shoulders, neck, or even between toes. Permethrin does seem to prevent them from getting that intimate with a host.
When in basic training with the Army in May-June in South Carolina, I was issued uniforms treated with permethrin. When marching in a column along the roads in the morning. I found a swarm of mosquitoes in front of me. Typically attracted to the heat from the sun as it was rising and peaking through the trees. As I saw these swarms. I saw them part like the Red Sea as a Soldier marched through. Then regrouped into unified swarm. I was expecting when it was my turn to walk through that I would be eaten alive but they spread apart and it continued down the line each Soldier that followed. I considered it had to be due to the permethrin treatment in my uniform. It happened this way all through the 2 months of training. Never had issue with mosquito bites. Fire ants were a different story.
I believe the Army uses a 1% solution if not 1.5%. 0.5% is the "civilian" stuff. You can always buy the non-petroleum based concentrates and soak or spray your clothing in it. I dilute it to 0.7% usually. Works great for ticks! I use picaridin for mosquitos.
Sawyer Permethrin works! I live in Northwest Arkansas and the ticks are horribly bad here and I crawl around in the brush and I don't get any bites when this is applied. I apply a heavy amount and then let it dry and do not wash. I have noticed it still works up to a week without reapplying. Far as mosquitoes they do still fly around me and land on me. I still get bites on bare skin but not as many.
When you say you don't wash, after you DO wash the clothing do you reapply a fresh spray of Permethrin? I just bought some (have never used it). I am a mosquito magnet & want to make sure I don't get bitten by them nor ticks. TIA
@@Midimoho Permethrin supposedly lasts about 6 weeks or 6 washings. It is kind of a pain to apply if you are taking an entire family camping. But for one person it's easy enough.
I used to live on Lake Sequoyah. Gotta love the tics, copper heads and water mocassins, right? What about the chiggers? They were so annoying. I'd get them every spring and summer pretty bad under my clothes. Did the Permethrin work on chiggers?
Over the years for work I have found myself in wooded areas and ditches many times. When I first started working I found ticks on my body and hiding in my clothing seams a few times. After some research I found permethrin and started using it to treat my clothing and inside my work vehicle. My family and I have also used it while hiking and camping. As long as I have recently treated my clothing I have not found any ticks or bugs in general on my body or clothing. I buy it by the gallon and refresh it every 2 to 4 weeks. I recommend it to all my coworkers. If you have a dog and apply that oily product on their back, it is likely permethrin based.
There was a MASSIVE epidemic of dengue in Brazil this year, killing 3.9k people in just the first 4 months (the peak of our summer). Every summer is the same (dengue is endemic here), but this year was specially bad. For the entire period, I would open only the windows with netting at night to cool the house down, then close the entire house during the day; the method was effective! I think I only got 5-10 bites, no dengue. Also gladly I had netting to cover half of the windows, which is enough to ventilate the house at night, but that is not an opportunity most people can have.
I've been using picaridin spray for several years, and I've generally been happy with the results. My expectations are rather more modest than the 14 hours on the bottle, though.
I spend a lot of time teaching in lowland rainforests of Costa Rica- I always bring Sawyer Picaridine products. They have worked well for me but nothing is 100% effective.
Our area of Tennessee we have big issues with tics, mosquitoes, but especially chiggers! I use both permethrin on clothes and Picaridin lotion, and don’t get any bites. If I don’t, I get hammered. Every time.
Upon arrival in Malaysia, I saw a public display showing the different species of local mosquitos, which ones were deadly, and at what time of day they were active. I had no idea. IIRC, the ones there active from 4pm-6pm with legs that bend backwards were the deadly ones... although the ones at like 8pm ate me alive everyday. Kudos for the public display! For me in East TN, deet less than 12% does nothing for mosquitos. 12-15% will reduce the bites. 25% or more stops them. I also spray my long pants when doing yard work to hopefully stop ticks. (and then tecnu to rid poison ivy after exposure (skin, shoes, tools), but that is a different topic.) Cool video. It was not at all what I expected - and I'm glad it wasn't. A bit of insight into how the EPA defines things was very useful info. Kudos to Sawyer for the funding.
I worked for many years in an industry that used high concentrations of polyester resins and their promoter. Also, urethanes, epoxies etc. We also used plunger cans for cleaning sufaces, which were full of acetone mixed with thinner that had soaked rags sitting on top evaporating into the air all day. I breathed in these vapors and soaked them into my skin every day for nearly 30 years. I'm now very sensitive to any solvent type chemical. Even normal gasoline on my hands will make me go tachycardic. Anyway s, a long way ro say that deet on my skin makes me VERY sick. Normal people may not feel it. But let a canary in the coal mine like me tell you that stuff soaks in and is NOT good for you!
I work in logging and something I've seen alot of guys do over the years (when no hand cleaner is available) is wash off greasy hands with saw gas. That makes me cringe big time. I won't dare wash up my greasy hands like that, thinking about that stuff absorbing into your skin.
In high-school at my printshop class we had what I call non flammable gasoline to clean ink off our hands. It smelled a lot like gas, but me and a few of my friends tried lighting it up with no success, we also smoked cigarettes in the dark room with no explosions.
Unfortunately DEET is the gold standard, but alternstives are been researched, you can try the "orgabic/herbal" route and use esssential oil mixtures, the propietary formulations works better than the DIY versions just bc they use synergist and polymers for delivery control, if you consider making one make sure to check some patents to give you an idea, try using carbopol, and cocoamides to enhance the result, also permetrin is a CONTACT insecticide thats why the mosquitoes die
Coming from SW Missouri, from 10 mostly wooded acres, my experience is nothing beats DEET. The Sawyer Permethrin I've tried on a soaked pair of jeans worked well on ticks on the late spring tick break out. They stagger around like drunks. That same pair of jeans worked GREAT on the other creature not mentioned, Chiggers. A scourge worse than ticks or mosquitoes.
amazon sells a full-body bugnet "suit'. 1/4 lb, $30 or so, I wear 2 of them. bugs can sometimes bite thru one layer of netting, where it's pressed against your flesh, but not thru 2 layers.
I really appreciate your scientific approach to things, even though it wasn't a statistically valid test. I wish you had tested the lemon-eucalyptus deterrent as well. I usually wear long pants and long sleeves, with a light spritz of deet-containing repellent on exposed parts. Works for me. One thing that some people don't seem to realize is that the repellents don't make the skeeters disappear -- it just keeps them from lighting and biting. You have to be tolerant that they will still exist and buzz around near you. Happy hiking y'all!
I make my own permethrin spay. It's the same concentration as Sawyer's product at about 10% cost. I always spray my shoes and socks with it and have tested it quite a bit. In my experience permethrin is best for ticks, as they almost always die before they make it off of properly treated clothes, but in heavy misquito areas, I always spray on deet to keep away the flyers. Getbthe best of both worlds.
11:49 the reason you don’t reapply etc. is probably because it’s poisoning you. Not as deadly to you as the insects but still being absorbed through your skin with some detrimental effect.
Those thermocells work pretty awesome. Clip one on the back of your backpack while hiking and use deet on your cloths seems to be the best combo in the deep woods up north.
@@alicefairchild2551 Need bats for the night time, and birds for the daytime. Both eat tons of flying insects. Now, if we could only find ones that will travel with us while we're hiking! Still, having a back patio without insects due to those predators, is really a nice change this summer. So; bat houses at the edge of the forest behind the house, another in front. Bird bath fountain for the daytime to attract birds. I discovered long ago while on the beach, that while eating snacks, the seagulls would come around, and the bugs would just disappear. Birds keep the bugs away. Bats patrol the night sky.
If it's anything like the UP of Michigan, I feel you. I was up there a few years ago (okay, decades, but who's counting?) and they appear in clouds. Vicious, bloodthirsty clouds.
I was at a Ontario beach all day, no mosquitos till dusk and then I was getting swarmed. I put on Picaridin and didn't get bitten after that. Then I went home. That's all I needed. My experience is mosquitoes are often most or only active at dusk or at night, so Picaridin is pretty good for me, and it didn't melt the plastic of my sunglasses etc. If I needed longer coverage I could alternate Picaridin with Deet for almost 24 hour protection.
DEET for the deep woods mosquitoes. Permethrin for my dogs. I've never encountered mosquitoes like the ones in northern Minnesota. I'd spray on a liberal layer of DEET when I couldn't stand it, and immediately had relief. Nothing else has ever worked for me. The issue I have with DEET is it destroys your nylons and rain gear. So, a mosquito net, gloves, and a decent layer usually work until arriving at camp. Then the onslaught begins.
I've had great luck with a combination of Permethrin on my clothes and Picaridin on my skin in the BWCA. I didn't even bother setting up my screen house this year, didn't need it.
As for permethrin it's strange to me that someone (including it's producers) says is a repellent. I always heard that it's highly effective against ticks - but by killing them when they get on your clothes, but not repelling them.
I applaud your commitment - thank you for making this video. Here in Scotland we have the Highland Midge, a small biting fly that swarms in their millions and never give up - they don't carry disease but can be the end of a camping location if you get targeted. For the midge sometimes a headnet and covering up is the only solution as most of the repellents have intermittent success IMO .
Deet works great however if sprayed on mosquito netting it degraded it. My father in law showed me how deet wipes can fix the cloudy appearance on an automobile’s headlamp cover. I get paranoid knowing that since our skin is the largest organ of our bodies. I have lymphoma cancer so being protective of skin is a big deal for me. Remember the lawsuit against roundup? commercials round up
Ok , If you want to minimize skin exposure to deet, You have to Dress Up, Thin clothing will still let mosquito bite through. Fisherman/Hunter/Camper. Off/Deepwoods etc, are fine for mild mosquito plage, They don't work well for Noseeums But for serious bite, they might last1 hour tops.Hang out clothing and spray with regular household Roach/Ant killer or Today's Permetrin, let air out. It works wonders in Tick country. Neck, Ears,Face(Stay away from eyes and lips) and Hands need to be smeared. I used 100% Deet. But it'l melt plastics, Havn't tried Permetrin but it's suposed to work very well
DEET can damage gear because it is a plasticizer by nature but that doesn't mean it reacts with your skin in the same fashion. DEET has been the industry standard for establishing a vapor barrier or repellent effect but Picaridin has easily become our most popular skin based option because it is gear safe, family safe, and effective against biting flies.
Wow, your dedication is incredible. I startet watching your videos because i needed some tips for beginners, but even in the last year, maybe even half a year, your increase of quality and information is incredible. It really shows that you love what you're doing and i hope you can do it as long as you wish. This is what the Internet is meant for. Peaple love there work and are able to share it "quite" easy... greetings from Europe
i never go out in the woods without repellent. ppl never think about bugs or sun exposure. just keep in mind that deet will melt certain plastics and fabrics
I weat cotton in the summer and am a mosquito and horse fly magnet. Whatever I’m wearing that day gets sprayed with deet front and back. This summer tried exofficio hoodie and it was effective against horse flies and was as good as a sun hoodie (which was the other use I had for it as I hate the feel of sun screen) and seemed effective against mosquitoes as well but this year hasn’t had as many as it’s been dryer than normal. Bad thing is there are fewer dragonflies and toads around, we don’t use pesticides or lawn chemicals as we don’t want to harm wild bees and other beneficial creatures.
I've used Thermocell while working in my garden for quite a few years. Without it I get bit by mosquitoes in the first 5 minutes. With it running within about 10 feet, mosquitoes are not a problem. Really don't like the feel of DEET on skin, so I'm glad to have this.
Does it kill the bugs? Or repell them? Do you notice if they just dont show up or if they fly around and drop down? (I am considering trying it myself but not if ot kills all types of insects)
This is a very good video, if you ever get the chance to do it again maybe you should talk about storage and stuff like that. Sunscreen become less effective when exposed to harsh sunlight and high temperatures are mosquito and tick sprays like this too? I bet a lot of people just leave their stuff in the car without thinking and think that they're protected when they're not anymore.
Great vid - takeaway message for me, don't need to buy high concentrate deet but instead, can go lower but ensure to reapply regularly. Appreciate this info!
Whoa mate there's a lot of talk about the environmental impact of Thermacell products, at least here in Finland. No mention about that at all? It doesn't discriminate which insects it kills, including pollinators. It's also highly toxic to fish and frogs.
I'm pretty sure the environmental impact is limited to about 3 meters from the device while it is on and that impact goes to zero soon after you shut it off. Their products are not meant or designed to be used to fume out an entire forest on a mass scale...
Hi everyone, here is a quote from Thermacells own website, but I can't find any corroborating info from the WHO via a quick google search, so take it with a grain of salt until someone smarter than me finds out if the claim is true: "Wildlife Saftey: The US EPA and WHO have concluded that there is a reasonable certainty that no harm will result to bees or other terrestrial wildlife if using the product according to label instructions. The mosquito repellent vapors produced by our product rapidly disseminate in the air and little of the repellent ingredient falls on surfaces such as surrounding foliage where bees might land. Our mosquito products are also most often used in the evening when bees are returning to their nest (also true of butterflies and other foraging insects). If you raise bees, avoid using repellent in the immediate vicinity of the bee hives."
People seem to utterly close their minds to this, its the same for deet, picaridin and permethrin. Everything you touch in the forest is going to kill insects that then touch it, every time you spray it it's killing insects around you, every puddle, spring or stream you touch is toxified and it goes up the food chain from there.
I mean I guess it’s not lying if you know that the definition is. It’s just that the official definition isn’t what we would colloquially say to each other. It’s part of being an informed consumer imo. But it would be nice if the EPA used more common definitions.
Nice video Steven! I have tried DEET, Picaridin, and Permethrin. They all help a lot, but none of them 100%. I like treating my hiking clothes with Permethrin and putting Picaridin on exposed areas when needed. DEET may work slightly better for mosquitos but Permethrin is far less stinky to me and also won't damage my synthetics so I prefer Picaridin over DEET.
Up the dose. Rational distance-hikers don't carry 93% water, they carry 100% Deet. Yes it's somewhat dangerous, but weigh it against disease, possible death and itching day and night for 24hrs? Calculation's even simpler with Permethrin. 1) Permethrin applied days before the hike (in other words, dried Permethrin) weighs less than 1g, regardless how much clothing's treated. 2) Permethrin need never touch skin (treat the outside of clothing, not the inside). Up the dose to 4-5% Permethrin and those ticks will drop like flies, mosquitoes will look elsewhere and even flies will decrease measurably. 3) Permethrin will last months before reapplication's necessary. Properly permethrin'd clothing reduces exposed skin and Deet to a fraction.
Back in the day we sprayed clothing with regular household roach/ant killer, and let air out. 100% Deet (Will melt Plastics) on exposed skin, Hands, Neck, Ears and Face(Stay away from eyes and lips) Permetrin new to me, but heard good revues about it. Hanging out in the back yard, regular Off/Deepwoods, etc works fine(not good against Noseeums). Will change to Permetrin👍
@@WillyK51for Permethrin, you MUST let whatever clothing, footwear, etc. air out for a few days after treating, and do NOT let it touch your skin while drying as it will cause irritation or a rash. It does work VERY well in my experience if used in a high enough concentration.
@@WillyK51 I haven't noticed a difference in the effectiveness of the treatment after washing, but you should re-treat clothing after 1.5-2 months to be safe. Clothing that has been treated already is perfectly safe to wash and handle like any other clothing you have.
I did take a small thermacell hammock camping once because I didn’t want to put deet on and climb into my hammock and quilt. It seemed to work fine. Guess after watching this, I won’t be taking the time to treat my clothes! Good info.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
*Products tested in this video:*
Off 7% Deet: geni.us/jPKo
Sawyer 20% Picaridin: geni.us/37XUl
Sawyer Permethrin Spray: geni.us/BDDxs3
Thermacell: geni.us/MU3gM
Sorry, I am ready to bring back effective insecticides like DDT and Chlordane. Not for nostalgia, but because they were incredibly effective. But we all know that the squeaky wheel gets the grease.
Do you know of anything that works against black flies? 30% deet has no effect with me!
@@cornflowertoile3026 Here in coastal No. Carolina when the wind is coming out of the West across the many wetlands, the black flies are a menace. They don't seem to leave a lasting itch but they surely have an annoying bight. DEET has no effect on them. I find Lemon Eucalyptus can provide some relief, but only marginally.
. Yup. The banning of DDT resulted in the Deaths of MILLIONS of Africans. But the Liberals felt better.
I feel like this test discredits permethrin a bit. As you can see in the comments it’s pretty much 100% effective in the real world.
Dude the best part about this channel is actually pushing the boundary to create new and really interesting content, not just endless gear reviews. This was such an interesting video!
Glad you enjoy it! I enjoyed making it
I totally agree! Really interesting and different!
Right?! How has he not stated making his own gear. I would buy it in a heartbeat, knowing it is going to work
My "In the city" insect repellent for 50 years has been powder. Shower to Shower which is mostly corn starch, and Gold Bond. Do the parts that count but then with your dusty hands run it over your neck, arms, face, exposed areas. Seems to work for me. In the woods - it's not enough.
It was my understanding that Permethrin (or pyrethrin if they're are the same thing) makes bugs that land on it sick more than it's a repellent. For a hiking and climbing trip to Japan years ago I first treated my tent. I figured if 10% was good, 15% should be better...Even after it dried I started coughing whenever I went near my tent, so I hosed it, washed, and then retreated it with the lower recommended dose. In Japan what I noticed was different types of insects landing on my tent and getting sick, probably dying. Seemed kind of overkill. My treated shirts, pants, hats I treated seemed no problem. Most of the time I never see a dead insect. In my house for my girlfriend who's a mosquito magnet, I treated a mosquito net and draped it over the entrance to the hallway to our bedroom. Almost no mosquitoes but I also never found any dead ones near the netting.
Later on my Japan trip in Hokkaido at the beginning of a two day hike I spray on some higher concentrate DEET, almost immediately I started throwing up. Everybody thought, well, he's done. But I washed it off. Later that day I encountered a bear. I had pesticide for it too. A can of bear spray, still in the package. Later I thought I should make sure I know how to use this. The cable tie on the package took a couple minutes of sawing with my knife. There was no way I could've used it on that bear. Instead I just kept walking past the bear loudly explaining my intentions, that 'we're cool.' Just like with mean dogs.
By far the scariest critter encounter on that hike was when I flopped down to take a rest and a big centipede landed on my shoulder. They're poisonous.
Now I'm sure I'm a bit more sensitive to the chemicals in these things than most people. If I use a repellent I use picardin.
But here's something else I learned years ago in the woods of Cape Breton, Nova Scotia. Even if you have an effective repellent that works really well, there are situations where the mosquitos don't have to be attracted to you -- where they are so dense they're just going to bump into you. If you're hungry enough you'll eat stuff that would normally repel you. I think it's the same for mosquitos. They haven't survived since before the dinosaurs by being picky.
And also based on my experience and my cars over the years, there are definitely fewer insects across the board in North America than there used to be. Probably also true in the UK, Japan and China. Maybe the whole world.
Hit the nail on the head
I am a professional landscape photographer from Brazil (jackdanielpro) and my large experience with deet and icaridin (picaridin) inside the Brazilian forests is: 1- Deet does NOT work into the wild jungles with less than 15%. I have tested. It does not work with less than 15%, period. With 20% of deet it has a good effect inside a real forest. However, deet has a problem to me which is that it reacts with plastic. This means that the textures and some delicate parts of my equipment will corrode with time when in contact with deet and it is IMPOSSIBLE not to happen while into the wild. You WILL get deet in your hands because real wild mosquitoes or whatever comes (there are a lot of different types of insects that get your blood inside Brazilian jungles) will suck blood from any part of your body including the palm of the hands. 2- About icaridin (picaridin). I start to sense real effect with 20% of icaridin inside the forests. With 25% of icaridin I have the exact same effect of 20% of deet. The percentage has direct correlation to power and not the amount of time it stays on your skin, which will always be 2 to 4 hours depending on how much you walk or run or rub the skin against the backpack or equipment. 25% of Icaridin does not reacts with plastic, but has the same effect to the respiratory system as a light pepper spray. And it is not possible to avoid sometimes spraying icaridin in your face. It will happen. Conclusion: I am pretty happy using 25%-30% of icaridin, since it does not destroy my equipment and has the same effect of 20%-25% of deet. I tried other solutions, none of them ever worked, only icaridin and deet... The percentages I wrote here are for wild jungles. if you are staying at home in the city, you will not need all that power for them to work.
+1 I actually melted a part of my Sawyer water filter with DEET lol
Where do you find anything with higher than 20% picaridin concentration?
@@sanfransimo There is a product, for example, called "Effex Ultra". It is 30%.
We need DDT. DDT is actually effective.
Agree completely! DEET dissolves too many plastics, Picaridin does not. It is my most preferred repellent. I also dislike the smell and feel of DEET, while I have no issue at all with picaridin.
After spending over sixty years, camping, hiking and hunting, the ONLY time I was ever hurt was by a tick who put me in the hospital for a week. Damn right I am scared of ticks and mosquitos!! Thanks so much for this info!!!
I spent the last two summers ill after failing to catch ticks with Lyme disease. Almost through this summer without another full infection ... but there's always Fall.
Yeah 💯 I know people have died from Lyme disease and how to terrible rest of life as well as people suffering still through this day then I pulled a few off the dog this year and I was freaking out 😢
This channel is always doing something different and new and it’s benefiting the outdoors gear community immensely.
I’m trying. Thanks for watching and supporting the channel
If you think lying and dishonest is benefiting anyone, then okay, I guess.
@@dzerres some people just wanna hate 🤷♂️ your views and comments still help the channel 💪
My wife is a mosquito attractor and gets bit all the time. She does not want to use DEET and insists on more "natural" citronella based repellant. It would a be cool comparison to see how these "natural" repellants fare against the ones in this video.
Edit to add: Thanks for taking one for the team! I can't imagine sitting through that and just allowing yourself to get bit!
Thermacell Backpacker model + Pants/Sun Hoodies and Bug Nets is the meta combo
And eat more garlic!
they work similar but require much higher application concentration and frequency, also will work best with a broad spectrum of oils not just one. such as "all terrain herbal armor". i prefer a spectrum approach long clothing treated with permethrin, and exposed skin treated with a repellent that works best in the region and with my level of activity. some mosquitos have been known to learn that certain repellents are worth chasing.
Citronella does not work unfortunately.
Citronella does fuck all, unfortunately
I work as a seasonal park ranger along the east coast. Ticks out here are an almost daily notice. Part of the work I do is outdoor maintinance, sometimes on established park facilities, sometimes out on trails.
Over several years of this I have found my all time favorite is the permethrin treatment on my uniform. Sure, ticks still get on my clothing, but I wear long sleeves, boots, and pants. All treated. Then whenever I get out in the field for work, I use a deep woods deet spray for the mosquitos. The combo is a total win in my book.
You drone. Pyrethroids are PARALYTIC NEUROTOXINS. They repel NOTHING. They only kill post exposure. Effects on mammals include RENAL FAILURE and NEUROLOGICAL DISORDERS. Fuck ME people are stupid. DO YOUR HOMEWORK while you still have the mental capacity.
Thanks for subjecting yourself to this test! We wish we could have funded a larger sample size and a larger variety of mosquitoes and ticks.
For what its worth, a combo of your Permethrin spray and 20% Picardin kept me bite free on a recent *very* buggy trip in the Desolation Wilderness, while my Deet toting friend got obliterated.... Big fan.
Thank you for funding this kind of research regardless of the results and pushing forward research and better products!
Yes, thanks for funding independent research... Regardless of the results, this shows integrity by your company. Appreciated!
I wish you’d tested with 100% DEET as I have to imagine it would be far more effective than 7%? Great video nonetheless. Thank you!
Permethrin and Picaridin has been a winning combination for me in the Boundary Waters Canoe Area, which is notorious for mosquitos. It makes camping MUCH more pleasant. One big issue with DEET besides the smell and greasiness is that it damages plastics. Food canisters, watches, sunglasses, etc.
Since I began treating my clothes and gear with permethrin I’ve yet to even see a tick. I live and hike in a heavily tick populated area and I contracted Lymes disease about 30 years ago. Permethrin works for me
I’m in the heart of tick country also and have found permethrin to be 100% effective for me also.
Same. I was in northern minnesota in June with some people. One person in our group found eight ticks over the weekend and had not used permethrin. My son and I got zero ticks. I had treated our shirts, slacks, socks, shoes, tents, and sleeping bags.
@@matt67524 Also in northern California Permethrin is the most effective against ticks. Picaridin not so much in my area.
Permethrin is extremely effective for me also. I went out squirrel hunting in the dead of seed tick season in the Midwest last year. Had some new boots on that I'd forgotten to treat with permethrin, but I had treated my pants, socks, and shirt. At the end of the day wading through tall grass, I took a piece of duct tape and used it on my boots to see if there were any ticks on them before climbing into the truck. The tape was *covered* with hundreds of seed ticks. I checked my pants and shirt, not a single one. Tick checked myself once I got home, zero bites, nothing.
Perhaps they didn't shake the bottle before applying with this test? I've watched ticks literally fall off my pant legs after crawling only a few inches at most. The stuff is a necessity if you're out in the woods.
Its probably a higher concentration then 0.5%. For me it only work with th 10% Permethrin the new 0.5 is no good.
Long clothes and permethrin have been my go-to for years. When the mosquitos are bad at a campsite, I will put on my head net and just sit there for about a half hour smoking a cigarette or two. This gives most of the mosquitos in an area a chance to land on me and start to die off. I have wrecked some massive and vicious mosquito hoards this way. Just let them land and wait them out ...
Had decent results in Finnish Lapland with 40% DEET. "Off!", on the other hand... I once sprayed myself all over, and not only were the little beggars not repelled, I looked down at the can to see one drinking from the nozzle to impress his mates.
Soo the mosquitoes drank the repellent straight from the bottle just to show off how little it repelled them lol ? My experience here in North Norway is that only the thermacell works, it removes all mosquitoes downwind and a little area in front of it also so you can place it downwind from you and not inhale it yourself.
You'll have to be more specific about Off! That brand makes so many different products that you can't really paint it all with one brush. They sell everything from a citronella spray which does nothing, up to 85% deet, and everything in between.
@@Green__one Pretty sure this was the "teho" version, but it's been a while.
@@a64738I used a picardin 10% spray in southern Norway, and even though mosquitoes and flies swarmed around me, none landed or bit me. I know the clouds of mosquitoes in the north are a bit different, but I’d recommend giving it a try!
finnish mosquitos are a special breed
Thermacel has been a game changer for me at camps. One pad lasts for hours & clears the entire camp if it's not too windy.
Thank you!! It's very real for me. Vacationing in Calif at Malibu several years ago, and hiking in the Santa Monica mountains, my best buddy got West Nile. A week later he was paralyzed nose down. Three more weeks later we were spreading his ashes. He was 63, athletic, and had zero health issues. A simple application of Deet might've saved his life.
I remember camping in Malibu and being in an absolute cloud of mosquitoes, being bitten constantly! Scary to think about how some of them in that cloud can be lethal like that.
My condolences for the loss of your friend.
@@juliana.x0x0 I was camping in the Laguna Seca part of Monterey ,CA and the summertime was really bad for mosquitoes!
We have found the thermacells are great for when you have set up camp and are staying around a smaller area like a picnic table. After letting it run for a while we've noticed a decrease in biting and mosquitos flying around. When not in this situation we still use deet based sprays for everything else.
I have to say, from someone coming from a science background. Its awesome to see some scientific method and actual openness about testing/results in these types of videos. Its also great to see you interacting with these different organizations and scientists. A wonderful way to bridge the gaps between the general public and research/science!
Agreed. So frustrating watching testing / review videos that are based solely on anecdote
the thermacell doesnt fk up your lungs or anytthing?
@@pinnacleexpress420 it's a chemical that is burned into the air so always potential there would be some effect but people have also been burning mosquito coils and aersolizing and spraying their skins or their clothing with chemicals as well for the same purpose 😂 I'm sure that's not good for us either
@@brentperron6914 I'm pretty sure aerosols and coil burns of that magnitude are completely and utterly harmless. But there are some insecticides too, I guess. Like the tick and flea killer, apparently that ones super human friendly. I doubt it, that's why I asked, but the thermocell thing could be cool
@@pinnacleexpress420none of my guests have noticed anything negative and we use 3-4 of them in our backyard. (3 for a "bubble" around our fire, one on the deck for sometimes when people smoke there)
If you don't want to use sprays which are probably worse for your health, they're the next best thing.
Thanks for doing the experiments! I have some real world analysis... I just came back from a four day backpacking trip in the Inyo National Forest where there were a lot of mosquitos. I brought a fully charged Thermacell and set it up in the middle of camp each afternoon and morning where we enjoyed a relatively bug free zone of about 25 feet. As soon as you stepped out of the zone the mosquitos were swarming. Each morning before moving camp I applied the Sawyer Picaridin Lotion on both exposed areas (I was wearing shorts) and unexposed areas including my arms (wearing long sleeves) and I only had one or two bites for the entire trip. One of our group didn't apply any lotion on her arms and was bitten numerous times through her sun shirt. For 5 people over four days of hiking we went through half of a 4oz bottle of lotion and a single Thermacell refill. It all worked so well that I acquired a new trail name, The Terminator. BTW, bug nets were used by everyone while hiking since no one was comfortable putting the Picaridin on their face.
Years ago my sister hiked for a day in permethrin-coated pants with cuffs. We didn't notice many ticks until we stopped - the cuffs were filled with dead ticks. I've always been a fan of 100% DEET when mosquitoes are bad enough, but in general I try to take a Zen approach - ignore them. That works in Texas; it did not work in Pennsylvania or New Hampshire.
Consumer Reports did a test years ago which showed anything stronger than 40% Deet was not any more effective... so... don't need to overdo it with 100%. It melts plastic and ruins things.
Too bad now that virus spreading mosquitos are migrating north, the ignore the itch method isn't going to work anymore
I worked with Aedes aegypti and Dengue for many yrs at Colorado State University in the Arthropod-borne Infectious Disease Lab. While working in the field, DEET was the only product used. I think it's important to use as directed and it's perfectly safe. I just completed the PCT; Oregon and Washington's mosquitoes were horrible this year. I can honestly say that while I was using a Deet product I was never bit, I cannot say the same when I wasn't using it!
Do you know of anything that works against black flies? I’ve tried 30% deet & it has no effect!
NOTHING is "perfectly safe." Even using NOTHING isn't perfectly safe.
@@cornflowertoile3026 Sorry, I don't.There are a lot of claims that certain products do but I have found that isn't the case. Picaridin and 100% deet would be my choice to try.
My Thermacell experience going on 5 years; I place 3 thermacells upwind in my back yard and when camping. They reduce the numbers of mosquitoes that get through, and they definitely kill them. Thermacells don't repell and you will still get bites, but much less than without. My wife is a mosquito magnet and also uses the green deet, I think is 25% on top of the thermacells, it works for her mostly, with a few bites still making it through at the worst of times.
I volunteered on public lands in AZ for almost 18 years. We don't have ticks or (very many) mosquitos, but we do have Arizona biting midges. Nothing stops them. I used to stink like a can of bug spray when I got home, but it still did nothing to deter or stop them. The best defense (or maybe offense?) was firing up my two cycle brush cutter. Maybe they don't like the pungent smell of two cycle exhaust. Peppermint oil was somewhat effective. At least it has a better fragrance.
I've heard of coal oil as a repellent for those.
In Scotland and Ireland I use a product called smidge. It is Picaridin based. Our main problem is Ticks. Their number seems to have increased in the past 20 years. Luckily I have never had one as I wear long trousers and gaiters, avoid high grass and bracken and do a good check before I pitch and of my body (mobile phone helps for the back).
Mozzies aren't so prevalent but I have endured swarms in the Baltics and Sweden. The bane of our existence is the midge. It doesn't carry any disease but just drives you insane. We need to wear very fine headnets
The smidge is effective against ticks, mozzies and midges but not for as long as they claim. They say up to 8 hours. Note "up to". I'd say that is about 3 to 4.
The only thing i fear for my first west highland way trip are all the little bloodsuckers 🤐
Smidge is great!
Great video! I was just up in the Porcupine Mountains in the UP in late July. Permethrin treated clothing appeared to repel mosquitos fairly well during the day, but when the mosquitos started swarming at dusk it was completely ineffective. Regarding ticks, I wore permethrin treated pants and socks the entire time and never found a tick on me.
Ticks die out in the U.P. by late July.
Treating my clothes with permethrin was a game changer. I am highly allergic and delicious to mosquitos. I used to use lots of high % deet all the time. But treated clothes has been a game changer. Treated clothes and a bug net and I am good to go!
Im a nurse anesthetist. Spent a majority of my adult life following only EBR (evidence based research). Your channel combines the 2 worlds of EBR and the enjoyment of backpacking/camping! Original and interesting content. Love your channel!
I just completed a canoe trip of 7 days 6 nights in the Northern Minnesota Boundary Waters Canoe Area. For this trip I had a set of clothes for daytime "wet" use while canoeing and portaging. And a set of "dry"" camp clothes to change into at our nightly camps once set up. I completely applied Permethrin spray to all my "wet" clothing garments including undergarments (socks, briefs, short sleeve shirt, pants, a long sleeve button down lightweight UV rated "fishing" shirt, and a wide brim hat). I applied the product per package directions to the clothes after they where freshly washed and dried. I allowed the clothes to fully dry out in the sun after application before packing for the trip. I feel like the permethrin application of the clothing absolutely worked to my and the package description for the results I experienced. I would get swarmed by mosquitos but would only get bitten on exposed skin and they seemed to be repelled by the product, I never noticed any landing on my clothing and trying to bite thru. And we had many portages, where I was told, that is when the mosquitos would swarm you and be the worst. I had a head net that I even rarely used because I was just not experiencing the swarming that I was warned of, and I believe its because I took the time to treat my clothing well and allow the product to "set in"' a few days before the trip. My dry clothes that I had only treated my socks definitely showed the difference. In camp I was swarmed by mosquitos unless I put my "wet" long sleeve shirt back on that was treated. So in summary the treated clothing worked to repel mosquitos in my situation. I did not measure out the amount of spray I applied to the clothing, I just made sure to thoroughly wet the clothes with the treatment. I used the Sawyer branded product in the yellow packaging that is widely available at many retailers. Thank you for this channel and all your content.
Did a trip to BWCA too and also treated my clothes--still got swarmed and bitten through basically all my clothes except the ones thick enough to physically stop them. It feels more like permethrin does a good job against ticks than mosquitoes for a mosquito attractor like me
Insects in the EPA test we asked if they enjoyed their meals and apparently said they would have preferred the untreated blood... but a free lunch is a free lunch.
Consistently awesome content as always, Steven. Love the intro, mitigating unfounded fears regarding things that aren't actually dangerous, just perceived as such (bears, mountain lions, etc). It's safer out in the woods than we think. We are fortunate to live somewhere without as much prevalence, or number of, deadly mosquito-born illnesses. But this is still great information, presented in a fantastic manner. You do outdoor UA-cam content like no one else!
Also, props to Sawyer for their willingness to sponsor this video while also putting themselves on the line.
No.
Large predators are certainly more dangerous than bugs.
They are less PREVALENT, so encounters are less common.
@@YSLRD That them makes them less dangerous. Danger = liklihood of exposure + nature of the animal. You obviously don't understand their nature and are just ignorantly fearful.
I have used Thermacell (the gas heated, not battery heated version) for a while now, and it works extremely well for me. When I arrive at a campsite, I'm normally swarmed by mosquitoes. I then turn on the Thermacell and after 15-30 minutes the entire area is mosquito free. I have tried turning it of again and I am then swarmed after a short while. I haven't tried the battery powered version, but the one you simply screw on to your gas canister works great.
I coat all my gear in permethrin & use picaradin spray before I head out. I’ve passed people being swarmed by mosquitoes with head nets on & I’m just cruising along not being bit. They work great for me! Can’t use deet because I don’t want to weld my bear can shut or melt my clothes.
Very well done video - instead of others (even TV stations) simply comparing "brands" you're actually doing the right thing by testing specific ingredients like DEET, Picaridin etc., because it simply doesn't matter whether you purchase DEET 7% from brand A vs. brand B - it's the ingredient that counts!
Exactly. brands mean nothing, it's the active ingredient that counts. Autan used to be a strong German anti mosquito brand (it worked because it had DEET) until it didn't because they replaced DEET with Icaridin, which honestly won't do much (for me).
Steven (Stephen?), you don't just repeat the "wisdom" from others but test to see what works and what doesn't. I'm a data analysis nerd at heart, so I appreciate your approach to common problems backpackers regularly deal with.
Then you should require this test to be repeated by hundreds of thousands of individuals. With all variables recorded to identify trends: atmospheric conditions, the air composition, time of day, species of mosquitoes, the participant's age, diet, sexe, hygiene standards, skin pigment, ethnicity, amount of hair, medication, diseases, etc. Then and only then would my Lisdexamfetamine fueled OCD data analysis fix be satiated.
As a Florida Bowhunter for 33 consecutive years, I can certainly say that Permethrin treated clothes is the best thing for ticks and chiggers. A Shannon's Bug Tamer is the best defense for mosquitos as well as a Thermocell which absolutely works very well after 10 minutes.
What is a chigger?
@@jamstagerable Redbug
What are you bow hunting in florida
@@macbirdy9723 Camp Blanding so far
@@randybeeson3424 what animal? Gators, python?
Gotta love a little science. As a nature photographer I have completely moved away from Deet. I learned tat lesson when I applied it on my hands and it MELTED the coating on the outside of my lens.
I had that problem. Went metal detecting and I had a green sticky mess on my hands. It was melting the paint on the spade😮
Deet works great against skeeters, but you are absolutely correct that it can totally screw with certain plastics. I will use deet all over, then completely wash my hands... I'll deal with a bite or two on my hands. I have yet to try picaridin "in the wild", so I don't know if it would work well, but apparently it doesn't melt your gear!
@@paulmckenna5224 🤣 The gear melt is bad. Thing is if it can do that to plastics and paint, what real damage is it doing to our skin and us??
In the UK there is a safe spray called 'Hedge Witch' and 'Moskito guard', apparently very good for the Scottish mosquitoes, ticks, fleas, Midges and horse fly.
I'm going to give that a try I think.
I use Permethrin for Dogs and LOVE it! Not sure if it repels or the ticks bite and fall off…but I hike in the woods and found zero ticks on my 2 pups!
I just finished a 3.5 week camping trip. We where in 19 states and 4 Canadian provinces and had flies,ticks and mosquitoes many places. We used off in incense sticks (if damp or high humidity they would not light). Thermacell, no noticeable effects. Deet seemed to work the best and most consistently. Thanks for the video.
Part of the problem with Sawyer Permethrin is that the amount of permethrin is .05% which is quite a small amount, Permethrin is also used for livestock and can be purchased at 30% permethrin and diluted a good bit.
There are two differences. Farm products are agricultural grade while the clothing treatments are pharmaceutical grade. Ag grade is not refined as much so it carries an odor which doesn't matter with animals. Also pharm grade formulas have a bonding agent built in to better adhere to the fabric. But if the ag grade works for you and you don't mind the smell you are good to go. You would have to reapply sooner without the binding agent but you probably dose up to help cover that. Ag grade would probably wash out sooner but it is less expensive to balance that.
In military we used the powder packs, I try to keep them on hand . Spray I find it needs a few applications and reapply every few washes or after a long camping trip. I use deet for mosquito on top of that. No complaints from me as a world travler. Other huge benefit for permethrin is tents, backpacks, and shelters
Those tend to have petroleum products in it which are oily, smell terrible, and can stain clothes.
You can buy roughly 10% concentrations that do not have this, then mix to 1 to 1.5%.
Also these products are 0.5%, not .05%. Big difference lol
@@KurtAvery-cs9lc The Sawyer brand has the same smell as the stuff for livestock. Both have some form of petroleum based substance in it and both have a binder/ liquid based evaporative substance such as B alcohol. I live in FL and use it every 4 weeks and it has never stained clothing.
@@MastaSquidge The Sawyer brand has the same smell as the stuff for livestock. Both have some form of petroleum based substance in it and both have a binder/ liquid based evaporative substance such as B alcohol. I live in FL and use it every 4 weeks and it has never stained clothing.
Another fantastic experiment exploring an important outdoors topic. For me, I haven't used a chemical repellent in decades as I've found them to be toxic to me and just plain ineffective. Plus, it's gross to sleep with those chemicals on my skin. During my 3-week Alaskan expedition in 2001, I used a simple, full Bug Net Suit by Coleman or Coghlan and it worked great in daily swarms.
That Picaridin lotion was a disaster for me on my last backpacking trip. Absolutely swarmed in northern Michigan. I won't mess with it again.
Picaridin spray at even 15% on clothing works for me. I've heard from others that the lotion is ineffective.
Careful with DEET if you're wearing synthetic fabrics as it will absolutely wreck them.
@@randytrashcan Maybe I'll try and give the Picaridin spray a chance on a shorter trip. I've never had any issue with DEET up to this point, and that lotion was an absolute catastrophe for me. Thanks for the heads up.
Great video topic. As a New England resident / hiker, ticks require reasonable vigilance to mitigate the risk.
bless you my man. Youre doing the real testing here. there's no way id stick my arm in a mosquito filled box as a control group
This was great! I was really worried you were going to try and advertise your own "better product". But this was extremely well done. ❤
Thanks for actually describing the click bait title. I was hesitant at first but this was a good study and great information
I tried the Thermacell and within about 30 minutes all the people around me started dropping. So I guess it’s working. 🤷🏽♂️
OK, so you got rid of the people. What about the mosquitoes?
@@markbloore1578 Day 13: I have made an alliance with the mosquitos. 🦟 Florida is losing the war.
The trick is to set the thermacell up so you are just upwind yourself so you avoid inhaling it ;)
@@markbloore1578 Works great on the mosquitoes also :) (just stay upwind from it yourself ...).
fr?
Talk about taking one for the team. Great video and both incredibly important and informative.
Years ago, my father and I were making repairs to a house someone recently purchased. The previous owner had a number of hunting dogs that he didn't take care of, and both the yard and the house were severely infested with fleas. The only way we could prevent them from biting us was to use 100% deet, sprayed on our clothes from the waist down. They would jump on us, then immediately jump off.
We tried lower concentrations, which weren't as effective, but a good combination was 100% around the waist and boots, and a lower percentage sprayed overall.
Thanks for bravely sticking your arms in those boxes. I've got to say those ticks crawling on your arm gave me the heebee geebee's !
You couldn’t pay me to do this!! Thanks for your sacrifice 😂
What? its just mosquitos. Not wasps
This must have been so gross, thank you so much for doing it! I have autism and am recovering from a bad insect phobia. I used to literally not be able to go outside in the summer. I've done therapy for the phobia for about three years or so, and being outside is so healing for my heart, my nervous system feels just calmed right down being out in nature. Using bug repellant properly, and being able to make a good choice that takes into account my sensory issues and stuff is really important for helping me get better. Plus watching you get bit up is definitely good exposure for my phobia 😂 Thank you for doing something so uncomfortable!
I had no crawl in cereal spaces for my job. I do plumbing and I hate spiders with a passion. Like I'm deathly afraid of them. I freak out. Many customers heard me freak out. I have no shame. I jus don't like them so I get it.
Problem with Thermacell is that it kills all insects not just mosquitos. For that reason it is banned in nature reservoir areas in many countries.
Mosquitos here in humid Piedmont VA. are vicious this year!
Deet is the only thing that works but you'd better cover every square inch of bare skin and spray your shirts too!
I hate using deet so I've taken to wearing long pants, shirts, gloves and even came up with netting that drapes over head and shoulders held in place with my hat!
It's so hot wearing long clothes but so nice not having to use deet every day.
I look like a bee keeper tending to everything but it's the best way.
Farmers have known this trick for ages which is why you see them fully clothed with long pants and long sleeves.
Thanks for the test!
I use both sawyer clothes treatment and the lotion at the same time and feel the combo works great! It’s my go to
After many many years of backpacking, I use a mult-pronged approach. Deet (Ultrathon by 3M - lower concentration of Deet with long release time) on Skin (usually in specific areas - head, neck, wrists, waist, and ankles). Permethrin purchased at Home Depot in home/garden area (diluted) on outer clothing layers, pack, and shelter in spring and fall. Ensure it is completely dry before wearing/touching and keep away from animals while curing. Not discussed in the video, studies prove that mosquitoes are attracted most strongly to black, 2nd and 3rd tied red and blue colors. I wear khaki (or other muted colors) for my clothing as least attractive to mosquitoes. Long lightweight pants and shirt in evening during "hunting hour". My general gear pouch also contains a headnet for intense mosquito populated areas. Also, no camping near bodies of water. Simply moving a hundred yards makes a huge difference. Side note: There are many old wives tales in regards to concentration of Deet being more effective. It simply allows the products to last longer; not repell mosquitoes better. I have done numerous field tests over the years to come to these conclusions.
I take a very similar approach. Unfortunately, ultrathon is no longer being manufactured...
@@mrcpope Well, I've got two cans left. I guess it's time to go back to testing again. Thanks for the heads up.
@@hilltigger Sawyer's Controlled Released Lotion is also a time release formula and replaced Ultrathon at the DoD
what about your health? chemical cocktails killing insects while inhaled and absorbed by your lungs and skin>>
You're correct about light vs dark colours helping, but not a lot.
Mosquitos are attracted most of all to CO2, and you can't stop exhaling that.
(Well - you can - but only for so long as you can hold your breath).
So keep wearing DEET & treating clothing with Picaridin. Bug bites are irritating, but Lyme Disease, Malaria, Dengue & West Nile disease are gifts that keep on giving for years, maybe for life.
Feedback from family members who are foresters was that nothing works well except DEET, and it's not perfect. But that was before ticks became a menace in Canada. And while it's relevant that Picaridin eventually kills ticks or mosquitos, that comes AFTER they've bitten you & passed on whatever disease they're carrying: small consolation.
I treat my clothes and gear a couple of times a year with picaridin and then use permethrin lotion. Seems to work pretty well with no ticks and only rare mosquito bites. Deet makes me feel “off” when I use it and it tends to build up and get gross on a multi day trip.
Sawyer is quite the admirable company from what I have seen. Glad they helped out, here.
I’ve watched ticks spaz-out and die on my weeks-prior permethrin treated tights while sitting at camp. Also a permitherin treated shirt worn over my head like a shawl has kept swarming mosquitos away from my face while eating, something a bug net can’t do. Also have had good luck preventing bites to uncovered skin with picaradin in heavy mountain swarms. And to beat that, I’ve been in those same offices and labs at NMSU…. Yay Cruceños!
And yay deet not melting my synthetic fabrics while the vapors skeez me out.
I recently had some clothes treated with permethrin via InsectShield's mail in service. They send a bag that you fill with your clothes, return, they industrially treat them and send them back. They are like magic 🤩 So much so that the first time I wore them I was like "are they even out??", then took off my heavy gloves and they were definitely out! Most mosquitoes don't even try to land, they just fly right away after they get close. 10/10, would recommend.
I've treated my clothes and shoes with permethrin and used picaridin spray, and both seemed to keep the mosquitoes from biting. As far as I know, I did not get any tick bites either.
There is a great video on youtube from The Hunting Public where they tested permethrin by treating half a jumpsuit and then walking/crawling around in tall grass and comparing ticks crawling up each side of the suit. This wasn't a lab controlled test, but it did show that with proper clothing, ticks getting on low to the ground generally were falling off before they get up high enough to be able to get inside the clothes and find a suitable implantation site.
I have had a ton of ticks, but none of them have ever been just latched on to exposed legs or arms, its always mid-section, shoulders, neck, or even between toes. Permethrin does seem to prevent them from getting that intimate with a host.
When in basic training with the Army in May-June in South Carolina, I was issued uniforms treated with permethrin. When marching in a column along the roads in the morning. I found a swarm of mosquitoes in front of me. Typically attracted to the heat from the sun as it was rising and peaking through the trees. As I saw these swarms. I saw them part like the Red Sea as a Soldier marched through. Then regrouped into unified swarm. I was expecting when it was my turn to walk through that I would be eaten alive but they spread apart and it continued down the line each Soldier that followed. I considered it had to be due to the permethrin treatment in my uniform. It happened this way all through the 2 months of training. Never had issue with mosquito bites. Fire ants were a different story.
The army is giving out uniforms already treated now ? Interesting we had to do it ourselves in AK
And what mos has basic in
S Carolina ?
Yeah it was in 2015 and every set of uniforms I’ve had issued since have been treated with permethrin.
I believe the Army uses a 1% solution if not 1.5%. 0.5% is the "civilian" stuff.
You can always buy the non-petroleum based concentrates and soak or spray your clothing in it. I dilute it to 0.7% usually. Works great for ticks! I use picaridin for mosquitos.
Thanks!
Sawyer Permethrin works! I live in Northwest Arkansas and the ticks are horribly bad here and I crawl around in the brush and I don't get any bites when this is applied. I apply a heavy amount and then let it dry and do not wash. I have noticed it still works up to a week without reapplying. Far as mosquitoes they do still fly around me and land on me. I still get bites on bare skin but not as many.
When you say you don't wash, after you DO wash the clothing do you reapply a fresh spray of Permethrin? I just bought some (have never used it). I am a mosquito magnet & want to make sure I don't get bitten by them nor ticks. TIA
@Midimoho Yes, I always reapply. Even though the bottle, I believe, says you don't have to.
@@Midimoho Permethrin supposedly lasts about 6 weeks or 6 washings. It is kind of a pain to apply if you are taking an entire family camping. But for one person it's easy enough.
I used to live on Lake Sequoyah. Gotta love the tics, copper heads and water mocassins, right? What about the chiggers? They were so annoying. I'd get them every spring and summer pretty bad under my clothes. Did the Permethrin work on chiggers?
Over the years for work I have found myself in wooded areas and ditches many times. When I first started working I found ticks on my body and hiding in my clothing seams a few times. After some research I found permethrin and started using it to treat my clothing and inside my work vehicle. My family and I have also used it while hiking and camping. As long as I have recently treated my clothing I have not found any ticks or bugs in general on my body or clothing. I buy it by the gallon and refresh it every 2 to 4 weeks. I recommend it to all my coworkers. If you have a dog and apply that oily product on their back, it is likely permethrin based.
There was a MASSIVE epidemic of dengue in Brazil this year, killing 3.9k people in just the first 4 months (the peak of our summer). Every summer is the same (dengue is endemic here), but this year was specially bad. For the entire period, I would open only the windows with netting at night to cool the house down, then close the entire house during the day; the method was effective! I think I only got 5-10 bites, no dengue. Also gladly I had netting to cover half of the windows, which is enough to ventilate the house at night, but that is not an opportunity most people can have.
Ticks are so bad where I live and only getting worse, so I definitely appreciate the video!
I couldn't imagine a world without deet. Very effective for ticks and mosquitos. ☮️
Try a combination of Permethrin and Picaridin and you will not be able to imagine going back to smelly, greasy, plastic-melting DEET.
I've been using picaridin spray for several years, and I've generally been happy with the results. My expectations are rather more modest than the 14 hours on the bottle, though.
I spend a lot of time teaching in lowland rainforests of Costa Rica- I always bring Sawyer Picaridine products. They have worked well for me but nothing is 100% effective.
Proper love the way he's prepared to go out and do this, respect mate.
Our area of Tennessee we have big issues with tics, mosquitoes, but especially chiggers! I use both permethrin on clothes and Picaridin lotion, and don’t get any bites. If I don’t, I get hammered. Every time.
I Hate ciggers!
Upon arrival in Malaysia, I saw a public display showing the different species of local mosquitos, which ones were deadly, and at what time of day they were active. I had no idea. IIRC, the ones there active from 4pm-6pm with legs that bend backwards were the deadly ones... although the ones at like 8pm ate me alive everyday. Kudos for the public display!
For me in East TN, deet less than 12% does nothing for mosquitos. 12-15% will reduce the bites. 25% or more stops them. I also spray my long pants when doing yard work to hopefully stop ticks. (and then tecnu to rid poison ivy after exposure (skin, shoes, tools), but that is a different topic.)
Cool video. It was not at all what I expected - and I'm glad it wasn't. A bit of insight into how the EPA defines things was very useful info. Kudos to Sawyer for the funding.
Such a cool video. Mythbusters of backpacking
You put far and away just so much more effort into your videos than most. Good stuff.
I worked for many years in an industry that used high concentrations of polyester resins and their promoter. Also, urethanes, epoxies etc. We also used plunger cans for cleaning sufaces, which were full of acetone mixed with thinner that had soaked rags sitting on top evaporating into the air all day. I breathed in these vapors and soaked them into my skin every day for nearly 30 years. I'm now very sensitive to any solvent type chemical. Even normal gasoline on my hands will make me go tachycardic. Anyway s, a long way ro say that deet on my skin makes me VERY sick. Normal people may not feel it. But let a canary in the coal mine like me tell you that stuff soaks in and is NOT good for you!
I work in logging and something I've seen alot of guys do over the years (when no hand cleaner is available) is wash off greasy hands with saw gas. That makes me cringe big time. I won't dare wash up my greasy hands like that, thinking about that stuff absorbing into your skin.
Yep, my first impression was , that's what the video was going to be about. ie; the health risks of absorbing DEET / chemicals through your skin.
In high-school at my printshop class we had what I call non flammable gasoline to clean ink off our hands. It smelled a lot like gas, but me and a few of my friends tried lighting it up with no success, we also smoked cigarettes in the dark room with no explosions.
Halogenated solvent maybe?
Unfortunately DEET is the gold standard, but alternstives are been researched, you can try the "orgabic/herbal" route and use esssential oil mixtures, the propietary formulations works better than the DIY versions just bc they use synergist and polymers for delivery control, if you consider making one make sure to check some patents to give you an idea, try using carbopol, and cocoamides to enhance the result, also permetrin is a CONTACT insecticide thats why the mosquitoes die
Coming from SW Missouri, from 10 mostly wooded acres, my experience is nothing beats DEET. The Sawyer Permethrin I've tried on a soaked pair of jeans worked well on ticks on the late spring tick break out. They stagger around like drunks. That same pair of jeans worked GREAT on the other creature not mentioned, Chiggers. A scourge worse than ticks or mosquitoes.
amazon sells a full-body bugnet "suit'. 1/4 lb, $30 or so, I wear 2 of them. bugs can sometimes bite thru one layer of netting, where it's pressed against your flesh, but not thru 2 layers.
I really appreciate your scientific approach to things, even though it wasn't a statistically valid test. I wish you had tested the lemon-eucalyptus deterrent as well.
I usually wear long pants and long sleeves, with a light spritz of deet-containing repellent on exposed parts. Works for me.
One thing that some people don't seem to realize is that the repellents don't make the skeeters disappear -- it just keeps them from lighting and biting. You have to be tolerant that they will still exist and buzz around near you.
Happy hiking y'all!
I have had good luck with a lemon eucalyptus repellents.
My Life Outdoors is putting in work.
I make my own permethrin spay. It's the same concentration as Sawyer's product at about 10% cost. I always spray my shoes and socks with it and have tested it quite a bit.
In my experience permethrin is best for ticks, as they almost always die before they make it off of properly treated clothes, but in heavy misquito areas, I always spray on deet to keep away the flyers. Getbthe best of both worlds.
11:49 the reason you don’t reapply etc. is probably because it’s poisoning you. Not as deadly to you as the insects but still being absorbed through your skin with some detrimental effect.
Those thermocells work pretty awesome.
Clip one on the back of your backpack while hiking and use deet on your cloths seems to be the best combo in the deep woods up north.
My answer is all 3 all together, premetherin, deet, and picaradin. Minnesota mosquitos are no joke..
What did you expect in the land of 10000 lakes that's mosquito heaven
@@alicefairchild2551 Need bats for the night time, and birds for the daytime. Both eat tons of flying insects. Now, if we could only find ones that will travel with us while we're hiking! Still, having a back patio without insects due to those predators, is really a nice change this summer. So; bat houses at the edge of the forest behind the house, another in front. Bird bath fountain for the daytime to attract birds. I discovered long ago while on the beach, that while eating snacks, the seagulls would come around, and the bugs would just disappear. Birds keep the bugs away. Bats patrol the night sky.
What, no flame thrower?
lol try visiting the tropics some time
If it's anything like the UP of Michigan, I feel you. I was up there a few years ago (okay, decades, but who's counting?) and they appear in clouds. Vicious, bloodthirsty clouds.
I was at a Ontario beach all day, no mosquitos till dusk and then I was getting swarmed. I put on Picaridin and didn't get bitten after that. Then I went home. That's all I needed. My experience is mosquitoes are often most or only active at dusk or at night, so Picaridin is pretty good for me, and it didn't melt the plastic of my sunglasses etc. If I needed longer coverage I could alternate Picaridin with Deet for almost 24 hour protection.
DEET for the deep woods mosquitoes. Permethrin for my dogs. I've never encountered mosquitoes like the ones in northern Minnesota. I'd spray on a liberal layer of DEET when I couldn't stand it, and immediately had relief. Nothing else has ever worked for me. The issue I have with DEET is it destroys your nylons and rain gear. So, a mosquito net, gloves, and a decent layer usually work until arriving at camp. Then the onslaught begins.
I've had great luck with a combination of Permethrin on my clothes and Picaridin on my skin in the BWCA. I didn't even bother setting up my screen house this year, didn't need it.
@@plmn93 thanks! Ordered. I appreciate the feedback!
Love using picaradin spray from Sawyer and recommend it. Works as well as deet as far as I can tell and doesn’t eat my gear.
As for permethrin it's strange to me that someone (including it's producers) says is a repellent. I always heard that it's highly effective against ticks - but by killing them when they get on your clothes, but not repelling them.
It is an insecticide, it kills ticks way before they transmit Lymes, like 100%
I applaud your commitment - thank you for making this video. Here in Scotland we have the Highland Midge, a small biting fly that swarms in their millions and never give up - they don't carry disease but can be the end of a camping location if you get targeted. For the midge sometimes a headnet and covering up is the only solution as most of the repellents have intermittent success IMO .
Deet works great however if sprayed on mosquito netting it degraded it. My father in law showed me how deet wipes can fix the cloudy appearance on an automobile’s headlamp cover.
I get paranoid knowing that since our skin is the largest organ of our bodies. I have lymphoma cancer so being protective of skin is a big deal for me. Remember the lawsuit against roundup? commercials round up
Ok , If you want to minimize skin exposure to deet, You have to Dress Up, Thin clothing will still let mosquito bite through. Fisherman/Hunter/Camper. Off/Deepwoods etc, are fine for mild mosquito plage, They don't work well for Noseeums But for serious bite, they might last1 hour tops.Hang out clothing and spray with regular household Roach/Ant killer or Today's Permetrin, let air out. It works wonders in Tick country. Neck, Ears,Face(Stay away from eyes and lips) and Hands need to be smeared. I used 100% Deet. But it'l melt plastics, Havn't tried Permetrin but it's suposed to work very well
DEET can damage gear because it is a plasticizer by nature but that doesn't mean it reacts with your skin in the same fashion. DEET has been the industry standard for establishing a vapor barrier or repellent effect but Picaridin has easily become our most popular skin based option because it is gear safe, family safe, and effective against biting flies.
@@SawyerProducts What luck that our skin isn't made of plastics, eh?
Wow, your dedication is incredible. I startet watching your videos because i needed some tips for beginners, but even in the last year, maybe even half a year, your increase of quality and information is incredible. It really shows that you love what you're doing and i hope you can do it as long as you wish.
This is what the Internet is meant for. Peaple love there work and are able to share it "quite" easy...
greetings from Europe
i never go out in the woods without repellent. ppl never think about bugs or sun exposure. just keep in mind that deet will melt certain plastics and fabrics
I weat cotton in the summer and am a mosquito and horse fly magnet. Whatever I’m wearing that day gets sprayed with deet front and back. This summer tried exofficio hoodie and it was effective against horse flies and was as good as a sun hoodie (which was the other use I had for it as I hate the feel of sun screen) and seemed effective against mosquitoes as well but this year hasn’t had as many as it’s been dryer than normal. Bad thing is there are fewer dragonflies and toads around, we don’t use pesticides or lawn chemicals as we don’t want to harm wild bees and other beneficial creatures.
I've used Thermocell while working in my garden for quite a few years. Without it I get bit by mosquitoes in the first 5 minutes. With it running within about 10 feet, mosquitoes are not a problem. Really don't like the feel of DEET on skin, so I'm glad to have this.
Does it kill the bugs? Or repell them? Do you notice if they just dont show up or if they fly around and drop down? (I am considering trying it myself but not if ot kills all types of insects)
I feel like you have delved into this subject more than any UA-camr ever.
This is a very good video, if you ever get the chance to do it again maybe you should talk about storage and stuff like that. Sunscreen become less effective when exposed to harsh sunlight and high temperatures are mosquito and tick sprays like this too? I bet a lot of people just leave their stuff in the car without thinking and think that they're protected when they're not anymore.
Next dare for Hikebusters: horse-fly test. ;)
Great direction you took with your channel, hope the extra effort will reward you!
Great idea- he could try those dragonfly clips!
Great vid - takeaway message for me, don't need to buy high concentrate deet but instead, can go lower but ensure to reapply regularly. Appreciate this info!
Whoa mate there's a lot of talk about the environmental impact of Thermacell products, at least here in Finland. No mention about that at all? It doesn't discriminate which insects it kills, including pollinators. It's also highly toxic to fish and frogs.
First I’ve heard of this. Pretty disturbing. Thanks for posting this.
Peer reviewed sources, please.
I'm pretty sure the environmental impact is limited to about 3 meters from the device while it is on and that impact goes to zero soon after you shut it off. Their products are not meant or designed to be used to fume out an entire forest on a mass scale...
Hi everyone, here is a quote from Thermacells own website, but I can't find any corroborating info from the WHO via a quick google search, so take it with a grain of salt until someone smarter than me finds out if the claim is true:
"Wildlife Saftey: The US EPA and WHO have concluded that there is a reasonable certainty that no harm will result to bees or other terrestrial wildlife if using the product according to label instructions. The mosquito repellent vapors produced by our product rapidly disseminate in the air and little of the repellent ingredient falls on surfaces such as surrounding foliage where bees might land. Our mosquito products are also most often used in the evening when bees are returning to their nest (also true of butterflies and other foraging insects). If you raise bees, avoid using repellent in the immediate vicinity of the bee hives."
People seem to utterly close their minds to this, its the same for deet, picaridin and permethrin. Everything you touch in the forest is going to kill insects that then touch it, every time you spray it it's killing insects around you, every puddle, spring or stream you touch is toxified and it goes up the food chain from there.
I’m grateful to know Kathy trusted us all to know she goes by Kath
So basically, they're all lying to us (via extremely misleading statements), and that's totally legal. Legalized false advertising.
I mean I guess it’s not lying if you know that the definition is. It’s just that the official definition isn’t what we would colloquially say to each other. It’s part of being an informed consumer imo. But it would be nice if the EPA used more common definitions.
Nice video Steven! I have tried DEET, Picaridin, and Permethrin. They all help a lot, but none of them 100%. I like treating my hiking clothes with Permethrin and putting Picaridin on exposed areas when needed. DEET may work slightly better for mosquitos but Permethrin is far less stinky to me and also won't damage my synthetics so I prefer Picaridin over DEET.
Up the dose. Rational distance-hikers don't carry 93% water, they carry 100% Deet. Yes it's somewhat dangerous, but weigh it against disease, possible death and itching day and night for 24hrs? Calculation's even simpler with Permethrin. 1) Permethrin applied days before the hike (in other words, dried Permethrin) weighs less than 1g, regardless how much clothing's treated. 2) Permethrin need never touch skin (treat the outside of clothing, not the inside). Up the dose to 4-5% Permethrin and those ticks will drop like flies, mosquitoes will look elsewhere and even flies will decrease measurably. 3) Permethrin will last months before reapplication's necessary. Properly permethrin'd clothing reduces exposed skin and Deet to a fraction.
Back in the day we sprayed clothing with regular household roach/ant killer, and let air out. 100% Deet (Will melt Plastics) on exposed skin, Hands, Neck, Ears and Face(Stay away from eyes and lips) Permetrin new to me, but heard good revues about it. Hanging out in the back yard, regular Off/Deepwoods, etc works fine(not good against Noseeums). Will change to Permetrin👍
@@WillyK51for Permethrin, you MUST let whatever clothing, footwear, etc. air out for a few days after treating, and do NOT let it touch your skin while drying as it will cause irritation or a rash.
It does work VERY well in my experience if used in a high enough concentration.
@@ForzaMonkey Thanks, What about washing?
@@WillyK51 I haven't noticed a difference in the effectiveness of the treatment after washing, but you should re-treat clothing after 1.5-2 months to be safe.
Clothing that has been treated already is perfectly safe to wash and handle like any other clothing you have.
@@ForzaMonkey 👍👍
I did take a small thermacell hammock camping once because I didn’t want to put deet on and climb into my hammock and quilt. It seemed to work fine. Guess after watching this, I won’t be taking the time to treat my clothes! Good info.