WOW Steve, this was really OUTSTANDING!!! The "scientific" method really paid off well here. I wish more hams were as thorough and changed only 1 item at a time, then measured the change to see how it affected their hypothesis. It is always best to remove the noise right at the source. In this situation, the noise is created by the computer (they are nearly all terrible with spurs of RF). The choke on the USB is doing the heavy lifting and is therefore most effective. I'm REALLY glad to see the use of a choke balun added to the coax feeding the Buddypole as this cuts the noise from the laptop that is riding on the outside of the coax shield. The reason why you don't have this noise on the DX Commander is that the coax shield is RF grounded through the radial field, but in the Buddypole, there is NO ground, so the noise is picked up (despite the balun there) due to the short distance between the coax and the feedpoint in the middle of the arms. By adding a 2nd balun further down the coax, we are further attenuating any RF riding on the outside shield. Thanks very much for mentioning me and some of my suggestions, including the NanoVNA. 😄 73 Brother. Keep up the GREAT work!
Man, you did it! I´ve got the same noises with a standard micro-usb cable connected between my ic705 and my laptop. My father gave me a (smaller) ferrit-ring out of his craft box, I wrapped the usb-cable around it (11 times, more wasn´t possible) as shown in your last video - and the noises are gone. I´m really happy with that solution. Thx a lot for this great idea, 73 from DO6HR
The choke on the chameleon coax has worked well for me. If I'm not using that coax, I use a toroid on the USB cable. I almost failed a POTA activation because I knocked the cable on the ground by accident and it broke. To keep that from happening again, I put the toroid into a plastic container and filled it with expoxy.
Man, just caught the follow-up video. Thank you for doing both of these. This is my ONLY complaint about the 705. Never had a problem over wifi...but now that I'm testing out the DigiPi, I was pretty bummed out.
I had the same issue with the 705 when it was about 18" from the laptop and transmitting into an FLoop 2 that includes ferrites on the cable. Moving the radio to about 3' from the computer has resolved the lockup issue for me.
About the usb isolator. The inexpensive ones (I have the same one) only isolate the power lines, not any data lines. They do make full isolators, but they are a bunch more money. Great video!!
@temporarilyoffline I wish I could answer that. I have the blue one that looks like the picture. I haven't had noize issues enough to make me invest in, say, a $200 isolator. Good luck!
I think you have two problems. 1. the usually computer RFI but more importantly 2. a. how tuned is your buddipole, what's it's SWR on a meter? 3. it doesn't look like you're using BP's adjustable balun, but are you? 3. have you tested the coax with nanovna to ensure it's good? sure seems like it but even a small defect can cause this. I know many with BP including myself and love the antenna but we all have the adjustable balun and use it, and coax should always be choked when possible, as well as anything else that goes into your radio (USB, etc). Good troubleshooting. I was surprised by your results with the shielded USB cable. USB Spec is that the shields of the connectors must be connected via the USB cable's shield, and that has helped me significantly where a lot of cheap cables do not have that shielding. the noise from the computers do not surprise me, but the only time I've personally experienced that kinda of disconnect/lockup when tx from the computer is with a really bad antenna match, and a boat load of reflected rf coming back (esp when unchoked).
Thanks for the feedback. This problem occurs for a variety of users with a variety of antennas. I was using the buddipole because it's the antenna I have that readily replicates the problem. So far the consensus is that the 705 itself doesn't properly shield its USB, so it's up to us as hams to solve the problems.
@@temporarilyoffline ah ok, experienced similar effect with my ft-891 (and no protection) which I found out the hard way where my wmr usb2cat back fed power blowing the usb controller on the radio. Maybe someone will try jumping usb shield to gnd in the 705 to see what happens.
Man… I was having ALL of these problems EXACTLY! Only difference in my setup is the addition of a XPA125B amp/tuner. Even without the amp I still have a ton of noise with and without the use of ft8. I’ve been trying everything almost the same as you…….except the coax choke. I can’t wait to try that tomorrow and see if I can finally use my ic705 in my shack again and not only when portable. Great video and I definitely subscribed! Thank you!
I happened to have the exact same toroid you used laying around so I wrapped my coax 9 times through it near the middle of a 50ft run and it dropped it from S7 to S3 with RF Gain at 100% on 20m. Gain set to 80% and the noise was almost all gone. Perfect solution, thanks again! 73!
Well done, sir, and many thanks! I've recently acquired an ic-705 and I immediately ran into this same issue, even with an MFJ-915 RF isolator between my coax-feed-line and the radio (using a QRP Guys end-fed-half-wave). I eventually got it working over wifi w/ Linux but I'm going to try the toroid-choke+USB solution for the sake of maximizing battery out in the field. 73 from an old Perl guy!
Great video, thanks for posting. I got tired of dealing with this issue. So, I solved my USB noise completely by just going wireless using the free WFview software and a couple port emulators. Works great for me.
So common mode current was an issue on that Antenna type. I really prefer a dipole due to this. Yes it's 30ish feet of wire and harder to hang but a lot less common mode current and noise on the shield. Nice video, I like your testing. Sending thiis to my 11 and 14 yr General daughters to watch.
Great tips Steve, thanks for the 2nd part here very informative and still amazing the amount of noise you get from your laptop in the middle of nowhere.
I too have tried all the other tricks with my IC 705. The only one I had some luck with was the FT-240-43 Toroid, which helped to some degree. Hoping to do a field test with another FT-240-43 Toroid on the coax to see if it resolves the issue once and for all. Looked promising in your video. Thank you for doing this follow up video. 73.
@@temporarilyoffline mostly my EFHW or MFJ 1979 17 ft. whip with the new WRC Sporty Forty resonator. Both seem equally as bad with the 705. My X6100 never has an issue. 73.
@@temporarilyoffline I do run a radial with the vertical - if on 20 meters I have four 16 ft. radials, and on 40 four 32 ft. radials. With my EFHW I do not use a counterpoise with my spark plug.
Wow, the radials on my dxcommander solved the problem for me, but I don't take that portable yet. I have used the coax choke on my EFHW though and that did help.
I loved this video. You have the patience of Job. I like that you really listened to the audience and tried other things. Heck, if it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing! Put a line isolator on the coax and choke the USB cable. Might as well put the inline USB isolator in there too. HAHA! 73, KA3YAN
great video. I have the ICOM 7300 and use USB A to B cable to laptop . getting some noise. T 240-43 on USB cable worked for me. running off set center fed dipole portable. all ready had choke on coax at 7300. all ways do. type 31 snap core. I choke my power cable at radio as well. have same toroid in the link. also 31 and 61 cores . got a bunch in my go kit. snap ones as well. a friend let me use his 705 so we can do a 24V amp build 600 watt PEP . buddy hex is waiting list only now. my friend went with DX commander instead. and DX engineering has them in stock in the USA now ! fall 2023. love how you try it all on video. going to help me with this project a lot. 73's
Hey Steve, when you unplugged the antenna and the noise went away I yelled "You don't have a noise problem, you have an RF in the shack problem" Ask me how I know! Your feedline or ground is acting as part of the antenna. I would suggest start with just laptop, unchoked usb, 705, short rf cable, to dummy load, and test. Then add long rf patch cord and test. Then add resonant buddipole and test, then add tuner and test. then add non-resonant buddipole and test.
I'm using the buddipole+tuner just to make it a little more wide banded... you can add inductance by tapping the coil differently on the pole or by adding inductors in the tuner. Also, at 40F and windy its really a pain to put up and take down repeatedly for tuning a 100% match.
Great video! I had a similar issue with my 705, I had the USB isolator but it didn't help. Added the choke on the USB cable she works great. I have tons of noise at my location so choking didn't help there.
The lock-up really feels like RF in the shack. The buddypole choke is fine, it keeps the dipole balanced, so that it acts like a dipole, and isn't detuned by the extra element which is the outside of the coax shield. But the extra choke helps because the outside of the shield does pick up RF, both your own transmit power, and local noise. While the radio may not be directly effected by the signal on the outside of the shield, it can get re-radiated inside your shack, and coupled to the unshielded USB cable. (I can't help but wonder whether this would be happening if USB had been designed to be fully differential - data is differential, but something in the start and/or stop symbol is single ended. Probably the chips at one end or both would still fall over in the presence of RF.) The DX Commander has a better ground (and a better match, probably, though I haven't worked out whether that applies). I figure that the vertical part of the buddypole coax is what's primarily picking up signal and noise. I'd suggest placing the second choke as close to the radio as is reasonably possible. I use a couple of clamp on beads on the coax jumper between my antenna switch and my MFJ entry panel, and I have no problem with FT8 using a Dell Inspiron and my FT-991A, which is already more differences than would allow my experience to apply to your situation. I also use a USB cable with a built in bead near each end, and it is probably shielded too. A bead at each end protects both the radio and the laptop interface parts: USB is two way, so there are line receivers in both the radio and the computer. Finally, you can ground responsibly at the park: just take a radial set and spread it out on the ground. It's not a DC ground, and not a lightening protection ground, but it is an RF ground, its quality depending on the local ground conductivity.
Its definitely RF in the shack. The 705 is known for it and as a ham, we know how to fix it. I have tried a coax choke (the same one in the video) on the radio side of the tuner, but it didn't help any. The USB and Coax Chokes are now everyday parts of my 705 Go-Kit.
@@temporarilyoffline Yeah, if you stop it between the tuner and the radio, it's still inside the shack. At or just outside the entry panel (cracked open window) is a better choice. I keep hoping that they'll make coax with toubh flexible bead as the outside jacket, but I think that I'll have a long wait.
I'm curious to know what happens if you choke both the coax and the USB cable. Does the noise floor get even lower, like S0, or have you reached the point of diminishing returns? Inquiring minds want to know. :D
It looked like you are getting RF into your radio. Did you tie the ground of the radio to the tuner to see if that helped. It would reduce ground loops that looks an issue. Also any time to limit the bandwidth of an antenna the noise should go down.
So why does the DX Commander work fine then? It's because the DX Commander has a massive RF ground and the Buddy pole doesn't but that alone shouldn't make a difference I think it's the metal mount for the buddy pole causing RF ground issues. As once the coax is choked away from the mount system all the issues disappear.
You're right, this is RF into the radio. Its "nobody's fault", but it is something that a ham radio operator should be aware of and have some solutions at hand for when it happens.
Thanks for the video, and interesting to see the coax choke work so well... I had similar ft8 locking/interference issues when using the 7300 and HP laptop on a summit (shorter hike). I bought one of the Amazon shielded usb cables, and was surprised it didn't work either...until I added more clip on ferrite chokes. 73
My setup is a magloop OM0ET and BB-V7, IC-705 (on it's own battery), LENOVO P15 Gen2. First I had the problem with locking up as shown in the video using the BB-V7. I added a toroid near the BB-V7 and on the USB, near the laptop. No locking up so that part was solved. Than I noticed that the noise became stronger with spikes every 500kHz or so when I started WSJT-X. I did not transmit at that stage. so the noise was coming from the laptop. I didn't use external power to elimminate noise coming in throught that cable. As I had another toroid I put it on the 705 side of the USB cable that stopped the noise. I think the laptopscreen was producing the noise (with the waterfall on screen), that was being picked up by the USB cable and send into the 705. So my formally 2m long USB cable has a toroid at the beginning and at the end. Maybe others can reproduce this outcome.
When you are testing with the Nano Vna, it would be good to check your polarization. Vertical/Horizontal can make a big difference. Also holding the antenna next to coax should be done the same way every time. K6DCH
I am new to digital Modes and I found when txing and returning to decide mode my 705 would remain in TX while WSJTX. I have a USB cord with no Ferrite ring attached. Could that be my problem? TNKS 72
I read somewhere that some USB3 ports are notorious RFI Broadcasters. Is that a USB3 port you're using? Might be worth a try to see if it is better on a USB2 port.
@@temporarilyoffline OK. Here's where I first learned about this issue. Jason talks about the issue at about 5:00 minutes in ua-cam.com/video/sS9bqNKvAAs/v-deo.html
Interesting. My antennas are about 70ft from the operating position and the computer & USB hose are about three feet apart. the USB hose has a strap-on ferrite at each end. Sometimes, depending on band, I get some kind of noise out of the radio when the antenna feed of the radio is open. Hose up an antenna to the radio and the bit of noise "goes away." Even with the cheap laptop that I got to go POTA with -- just in time for the weather to chill me out and Cindy to spend the next two weeks recovering from eye surgery. It's all a matter of timing. And distance ;-) 73 de W8IJN
You may wish to reduce the number of joins on your buddy pole feedline. I remember having in drilled into me that each time that you join your coax you lose your signal. When I used to work on the tools the cowboys in the industry would extend antenna cables the professionals would simply say No it's too lossy! Not to mention we could book more hours. But inline with any signal losses where there is the chance of signal loss there is the chance to introduce noise. 😉
The loss from the extra connectors is so small. You can measure it with a VNA but you will never notice it on the air. In fact if TO would measure the loss of his extra cable with the choke on it I would guess the loss would be less than .5 dB.
@@terry5089 Yeah, but when you do it for commercial. You don't want to give the customer a reason to complain.... I have arraived at a customers siste and looked at antenna runs with just 3 joins on UHF and a yagi pointing to a repeater sight ( i know it's not hf) but was not getting into the repeater, plugged in my Bird meter and tripped the repeater with ethe bird but not with the bird removed... re ran the coax 1.2 to one... close enough and good reports. 😁
Remove the chokes, mount the buddy pole on a fibreglass or wood mount and see what happens. I bet everything is trying to pull to ground capacitively via the metal mount on the buddy pole antenna. I say this because the DX commander has a good ground system and the dummy load was sitting on wood.
@@forgetyourlife I like to run my FT8 waterfall at 2.5k display, and having the center point "proper" means I have to run 5k to see the waterfall on the right side of the display - the only "argument" that exists in defense of doing it wrong. :-D
I had a noisy cheapo switching supply. Choke on power at rig. No joy. Disconnected ant and zero noise! Not coming in power but ant. Solution was put toroid immediately at the power supply - fixed! The dc leads were acting as antenna broadcasting that noise till the toroid stopped that!
@@temporarilyoffline Same on me Steve, Springbreak to beginning of June and from August to mid of October is my favourite Time of the Year for any kinds of outdoor Activities. Happy tuesday into WI-State and say hello from me to Leah & Rebecca. Hope they doing well and finding their way back to HAM Radio again. 73 de YFUG from southwest Germany 💯🙋♂
So sad when hams use a tuner on a very easy to tune antenna...$1300 radio a $300+ antenna and a good bet did not bother with a antenna analyzer...Someone PLEASE tell me why people use a tuner on a buddipole or buddistick...They are NOT hard to set up and tune..Once done leave the clips in place and they can be set up in running in less then 10 mins...And you do NOT need a fancy antenna analyzer like a Rigexpert or something like that..I use nothing more them a iPortable iP60z in my 705 go box and it works perfect for it..Once set the first time you just set the Buddipole up scan it real fast make any minor whip adjustments and done...Close to $2000 in just the radio and antenna and uses a tuner 🙄🤥..People can jump me all they want here but if we are going to spend this kind of money on just 2 things why not spend an extra $249 on a antenna analyzer and do things the right way..Am I being harsh and a jerk....Maybe yes however useing a tuner for a Buddipole is NOT needed or doing things at the best..Spend a little extra buy a antenna analyzer take that antenna out to the field the back yard wherever take the time the antenna analyzer TUNE it leave the tuner at home...Having used the Buddipole and Buddistick for years now I can say with a little time they will rock on a 705 or any radio when tuned..
The noise on the USB is simply RFI generated by the laptop, and it makes the usb controller on the radio unhappy. If you open the laptop up you'll see all the shielding inside of them used to contain it, including metalizing plastic parts with copper. The USB cable creates an electrical connection between the radio and the laptop, giving that RFI a place to go. If you use a second receiver, you'll see the usb cable also radiates, which is why it's best the toroid is near the laptop end of the cable. "Shielded" cables are basically pointless because that braid in the shielding just creates a nice low impedance path for the RFI the laptop creates to flow along. (A shielded usb cable is basically just a coaxial cable with multiple center conductors) Different story if you carefully severed the braid at one end of the cable so it acts like a faraday cage and not an rf conductor. The antenna and all of the coax is simply creating a ground plane for the laptop's RFI and the radio is the bridge between the laptop and that ground plane. Everything about USB is RF friendly, especially the wide flat plugs, which is why the toroid solution has repeatedly been proven to be the correct answer to the problem. It jacks up the impedance on the cable and simply gets turned into heat in the toroid.
Aloha Steve, I’m not always into some of your more “brainiac” videos, only because some of the older computer stuff goes way over my head. In this case, I totally understand your dilemma because we deal with a ton of interference from all the military bases here on Oahu, especially from Pearl Harbor/Hickam. Plus we must deal with a lot of interference from all the Waikiki area hotels that have old and outdated repeaters. Usually, each hotel has two repeaters, one for housekeeping and the other for security and both are usually mounted on the roof of the hotels. I’ll give you a great example, I use to live right next to the Waikiki Marriott Hotel on Ohua Avenue and my buddy, Kenny, a fellow US Marine, is still head of Security there. I owned and had coordinated the Waikiki Repeater that worked fine for many years but started getting interference from two sources, the Marriott and the Hilton Prince Kuhio. The Hilton was actually easy to deal with because they came to me and asked me to change the frequency of my repeater, that I was bleeding onto their repeater for security, lol. They had two things going on, one was a really old repeater and the other was they were using a third party that had set up their communications needs which I won’t name here. I could hear them also, so I had this manager from this communications company asked me personally to change the frequency of the Waikiki repeater that was coordinated with the State of Hawaii. I told him point blank that changing my frequency wasn’t going to make a difference because(1)they were using really old and outdated repeaters(2) their coax cable has gone bad from all the VOG from the Big Island volcano, 3) Not coordinated with the State and 4) Transmitting on the Amateur radio bands. I told the Hilton, who was ready to sue me if I didn’t change frequency or remove the Waikiki repeater, that the FCC would fine them $15k per day for as long as their violations continued and/or if I registered a complaint to FCC, which I didn’t need to. After sitting down for a meeting with their hotel manager, a hilton attorney, the manager of the third party for communications, and myself, they finally saw things in the same light as I did, the FCC fines of $15k a day convinced them to buy two new digital repeaters, problem solved, right? No, there was other hotels in the area that were waiting for the outcome also. All the hotels around me changed to new digital repeaters also except the Marriott, which did everything right from the beginning, was coordinated on the business band and everything. We did get the Marriott to drop a few grand for new LMR 400 coax from the roof to their security office on the third floor. The VOG had damaged their old coax over the 12 year period when it was last installed. Steve, long story short, this could be one of the major shortcomings of the ICOM IC 705? Can this problem be fixed internally by ICOM?
@@temporarilyoffline I do know that Ray Novak N9JA of Icom America works very hard to find solutions to problems that do come up occasionally and maybe with your two videos,Steve, maybe there will be an update or a patch that fixes this issue. BTW, Ray gave me a new D Star repeater to put up here in the Honolulu area and got it set up last year in order to start HERO-Hawaii Emergency Radio Operators. We’re just a bunch of US Marines that were not afraid of Fauci’s bioweapons to be the only organization in the country to do in person VE Testing Exams and online. We have been having difficulties obtaining ARRL status since our ARRL Sec. Manager is loyal to another amateur radio club but these things usually work themselves out over time. At least we obtained none profit status, that’s a great thing for a club that’s only less than a year old. Steve, you are a valuable asset to the Amateur Radio community for some of the most in depth videos of our times. I absolutely cringed when you took apart a brand new Xiegu X6100 and made it look easy. I know you told me that your video challenged your abilities while making it but it also gave a lot hams hope that we can still take radios apart and put them back together again, which is what got me into Amateur radio in the early 1970’s with those free Citco radios my grandparents got every time they fill up their gas tank. I can’t tell you the number of times I took one of those apart. Thanks Steve! 👍
WOW Steve, this was really OUTSTANDING!!! The "scientific" method really paid off well here. I wish more hams were as thorough and changed only 1 item at a time, then measured the change to see how it affected their hypothesis.
It is always best to remove the noise right at the source. In this situation, the noise is created by the computer (they are nearly all terrible with spurs of RF). The choke on the USB is doing the heavy lifting and is therefore most effective. I'm REALLY glad to see the use of a choke balun added to the coax feeding the Buddypole as this cuts the noise from the laptop that is riding on the outside of the coax shield. The reason why you don't have this noise on the DX Commander is that the coax shield is RF grounded through the radial field, but in the Buddypole, there is NO ground, so the noise is picked up (despite the balun there) due to the short distance between the coax and the feedpoint in the middle of the arms. By adding a 2nd balun further down the coax, we are further attenuating any RF riding on the outside shield.
Thanks very much for mentioning me and some of my suggestions, including the NanoVNA. 😄
73 Brother. Keep up the GREAT work!
Thanks Greg! I really enjoy this kind of "work", it was fun to hunt it down.
Man, you did it!
I´ve got the same noises with a standard micro-usb cable connected between my ic705 and my laptop.
My father gave me a (smaller) ferrit-ring out of his craft box, I wrapped the usb-cable around it (11 times, more wasn´t possible) as shown in your last video - and the noises are gone.
I´m really happy with that solution.
Thx a lot for this great idea, 73 from DO6HR
Glad it helped!
The choke on the chameleon coax has worked well for me. If I'm not using that coax, I use a toroid on the USB cable. I almost failed a POTA activation because I knocked the cable on the ground by accident and it broke. To keep that from happening again, I put the toroid into a plastic container and filled it with expoxy.
Pot(ting) gets it done! That's an old and reliable trick!
I always enjoy stopping by because I learn something. Thanks, Steve.
Glad to hear it!
Nice job Steve! You "closed those loops" and lowered the noise on this subject! 73, KF6IF
Yessir, those 2 chokes are now a permanent part of my 705 kit
Man, just caught the follow-up video. Thank you for doing both of these. This is my ONLY complaint about the 705. Never had a problem over wifi...but now that I'm testing out the DigiPi, I was pretty bummed out.
Glad to help
I had the same issue with the 705 when it was about 18" from the laptop and transmitting into an FLoop 2 that includes ferrites on the cable. Moving the radio to about 3' from the computer has resolved the lockup issue for me.
Nice!
About the usb isolator. The inexpensive ones (I have the same one) only isolate the power lines, not any data lines. They do make full isolators, but they are a bunch more money. Great video!!
Thanks, I hadn't heard of a USB isolator until my first vid on this topic. Do you think the full unit would help any better?
@temporarilyoffline I wish I could answer that. I have the blue one that looks like the picture. I haven't had noize issues enough to make me invest in, say, a $200 isolator. Good luck!
I think you have two problems. 1. the usually computer RFI but more importantly 2. a. how tuned is your buddipole, what's it's SWR on a meter? 3. it doesn't look like you're using BP's adjustable balun, but are you? 3. have you tested the coax with nanovna to ensure it's good? sure seems like it but even a small defect can cause this. I know many with BP including myself and love the antenna but we all have the adjustable balun and use it, and coax should always be choked when possible, as well as anything else that goes into your radio (USB, etc). Good troubleshooting. I was surprised by your results with the shielded USB cable. USB Spec is that the shields of the connectors must be connected via the USB cable's shield, and that has helped me significantly where a lot of cheap cables do not have that shielding. the noise from the computers do not surprise me, but the only time I've personally experienced that kinda of disconnect/lockup when tx from the computer is with a really bad antenna match, and a boat load of reflected rf coming back (esp when unchoked).
Thanks for the feedback. This problem occurs for a variety of users with a variety of antennas. I was using the buddipole because it's the antenna I have that readily replicates the problem. So far the consensus is that the 705 itself doesn't properly shield its USB, so it's up to us as hams to solve the problems.
@@temporarilyoffline ah ok, experienced similar effect with my ft-891 (and no protection) which I found out the hard way where my wmr usb2cat back fed power blowing the usb controller on the radio. Maybe someone will try jumping usb shield to gnd in the 705 to see what happens.
I'd need a micro-usb breakout board and about 50F more degrees to test that out 🤣 (it's- 12F as I type this)
Man… I was having ALL of these problems EXACTLY! Only difference in my setup is the addition of a XPA125B amp/tuner. Even without the amp I still have a ton of noise with and without the use of ft8. I’ve been trying everything almost the same as you…….except the coax choke. I can’t wait to try that tomorrow and see if I can finally use my ic705 in my shack again and not only when portable. Great video and I definitely subscribed! Thank you!
I happened to have the exact same toroid you used laying around so I wrapped my coax 9 times through it near the middle of a 50ft run and it dropped it from S7 to S3 with RF Gain at 100% on 20m. Gain set to 80% and the noise was almost all gone. Perfect solution, thanks again! 73!
Glad it helped!
Well done, sir, and many thanks! I've recently acquired an ic-705 and I immediately ran into this same issue, even with an MFJ-915 RF isolator between my coax-feed-line and the radio (using a QRP Guys end-fed-half-wave). I eventually got it working over wifi w/ Linux but I'm going to try the toroid-choke+USB solution for the sake of maximizing battery out in the field. 73 from an old Perl guy!
OPGs unite! Glad it helped. Did you see the first vid in this series?
Great video, thanks for posting. I got tired of dealing with this issue. So, I solved my USB noise completely by just going wireless using the free WFview software and a couple port emulators. Works great for me.
It does work great that way too!
Steve, excellent thorough testing. I am learning a lot from your tests.
Tons of work you put into that. Many thanks
Anytime Kevin!
So common mode current was an issue on that Antenna type. I really prefer a dipole due to this. Yes it's 30ish feet of wire and harder to hang but a lot less common mode current and noise on the shield. Nice video, I like your testing. Sending thiis to my 11 and 14 yr General daughters to watch.
Thanks for sharing, it was a lot of fun yo play around with and figure out.
Great tips Steve, thanks for the 2nd part here very informative and still amazing the amount of noise you get from your laptop in the middle of nowhere.
More noise than Hobart?
@@temporarilyoffline Hobart is very noisy... depending on where of course
I too have tried all the other tricks with my IC 705. The only one I had some luck with was the FT-240-43 Toroid, which helped to some degree. Hoping to do a field test with another FT-240-43 Toroid on the coax to see if it resolves the issue once and for all. Looked promising in your video. Thank you for doing this follow up video. 73.
No problem Scott, what antenna are you running?
@@temporarilyoffline mostly my EFHW or MFJ 1979 17 ft. whip with the new WRC Sporty Forty resonator. Both seem equally as bad with the 705. My X6100 never has an issue. 73.
Have you tried running a counterpoise or ground radials on either of those? Does it reduce the noise on your 705?
@@temporarilyoffline I do run a radial with the vertical - if on 20 meters I have four 16 ft. radials, and on 40 four 32 ft. radials. With my EFHW I do not use a counterpoise with my spark plug.
Wow, the radials on my dxcommander solved the problem for me, but I don't take that portable yet. I have used the coax choke on my EFHW though and that did help.
I loved this video. You have the patience of Job. I like that you really listened to the audience and tried other things. Heck, if it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing! Put a line isolator on the coax and choke the USB cable. Might as well put the inline USB isolator in there too. HAHA! 73, KA3YAN
Right! Belts and Braces!
great video. I have the ICOM 7300 and use USB A to B cable to laptop . getting some noise. T 240-43 on USB cable worked for me. running off set center fed dipole portable. all ready had choke on coax at 7300. all ways do. type 31 snap core. I choke my power cable at radio as well. have same toroid in the link. also 31 and 61 cores . got a bunch in my go kit. snap ones as well. a friend let me use his 705 so we can do a 24V amp build 600 watt PEP . buddy hex is waiting list only now. my friend went with DX commander instead. and DX engineering has them in stock in the USA now ! fall 2023. love how you try it all on video. going to help me with this project a lot. 73's
Excellent, glad it helped!
Excellent, glad it helped!
Excellent video, Steve. I always dig the troubleshooting videos. Keep on keeping on!
Thanks Gap!
Hey Steve, when you unplugged the antenna and the noise went away I yelled "You don't have a noise problem, you have an RF in the shack problem" Ask me how I know! Your feedline or ground is acting as part of the antenna. I would suggest start with just laptop, unchoked usb, 705, short rf cable, to dummy load, and test. Then add long rf patch cord and test. Then add resonant buddipole and test, then add tuner and test. then add non-resonant buddipole and test.
I'm assuming you're using the buddipole non-resonant since you have the tuner there.
That's a great idea, thanks!
I'm using the buddipole+tuner just to make it a little more wide banded... you can add inductance by tapping the coil differently on the pole or by adding inductors in the tuner. Also, at 40F and windy its really a pain to put up and take down repeatedly for tuning a 100% match.
This was great. Thanks for taking the time to go through all this and share.
No problem Mike, hope it helps
Great video! I had a similar issue with my 705, I had the USB isolator but it didn't help. Added the choke on the USB cable she works great. I have tons of noise at my location so choking didn't help there.
I carry both chokes with my 705 kit all the time now. The 1:1 coax choke trick is a particular winner!
As Ape keeps saying "Choke everything"
Exactly!
Fantastic Steve, thank you so very much for sharing that test, interesting result. Excellent job. Thank you.
Thanks for watching Janice! It was fun to make!
I have the same problem with my 705 with my KM4ACK EFHW and using a toroid and rf choke helps
Yes! You could add a counterpoise to your KM4ACK antenna also. There is more than one way to do it!
The lock-up really feels like RF in the shack. The buddypole choke is fine, it keeps the dipole balanced, so that it acts like a dipole, and isn't detuned by the extra element which is the outside of the coax shield. But the extra choke helps because the outside of the shield does pick up RF, both your own transmit power, and local noise. While the radio may not be directly effected by the signal on the outside of the shield, it can get re-radiated inside your shack, and coupled to the unshielded USB cable. (I can't help but wonder whether this would be happening if USB had been designed to be fully differential - data is differential, but something in the start and/or stop symbol is single ended. Probably the chips at one end or both would still fall over in the presence of RF.) The DX Commander has a better ground (and a better match, probably, though I haven't worked out whether that applies). I figure that the vertical part of the buddypole coax is what's primarily picking up signal and noise.
I'd suggest placing the second choke as close to the radio as is reasonably possible. I use a couple of clamp on beads on the coax jumper between my antenna switch and my MFJ entry panel, and I have no problem with FT8 using a Dell Inspiron and my FT-991A, which is already more differences than would allow my experience to apply to your situation. I also use a USB cable with a built in bead near each end, and it is probably shielded too. A bead at each end protects both the radio and the laptop interface parts: USB is two way, so there are line receivers in both the radio and the computer.
Finally, you can ground responsibly at the park: just take a radial set and spread it out on the ground. It's not a DC ground, and not a lightening protection ground, but it is an RF ground, its quality depending on the local ground conductivity.
Its definitely RF in the shack. The 705 is known for it and as a ham, we know how to fix it. I have tried a coax choke (the same one in the video) on the radio side of the tuner, but it didn't help any. The USB and Coax Chokes are now everyday parts of my 705 Go-Kit.
@@temporarilyoffline Yeah, if you stop it between the tuner and the radio, it's still inside the shack. At or just outside the entry panel (cracked open window) is a better choice. I keep hoping that they'll make coax with toubh flexible bead as the outside jacket, but I think that I'll have a long wait.
@@KeepEvery1Guessing Sounds like an opportunity - powered iron cable jackets!
I'm curious to know what happens if you choke both the coax and the USB cable. Does the noise floor get even lower, like S0, or have you reached the point of diminishing returns? Inquiring minds want to know. :D
It was too controversial to share. Even though I have video footage of it, I would lose all credibility as a ham if I broke that news!
It looked like you are getting RF into your radio. Did you tie the ground of the radio to the tuner to see if that helped. It would reduce ground loops that looks an issue. Also any time to limit the bandwidth of an antenna the noise should go down.
So why does the DX Commander work fine then? It's because the DX Commander has a massive RF ground and the Buddy pole doesn't but that alone shouldn't make a difference I think it's the metal mount for the buddy pole causing RF ground issues. As once the coax is choked away from the mount system all the issues disappear.
You're right, this is RF into the radio. Its "nobody's fault", but it is something that a ham radio operator should be aware of and have some solutions at hand for when it happens.
Thanks for the video, and interesting to see the coax choke work so well... I had similar ft8 locking/interference issues when using the 7300 and HP laptop on a summit (shorter hike). I bought one of the Amazon shielded usb cables, and was surprised it didn't work either...until I added more clip on ferrite chokes. 73
Where there's a ham, there's a way.
My setup is a magloop OM0ET and BB-V7, IC-705 (on it's own battery), LENOVO P15 Gen2. First I had the problem with locking up as shown in the video using the BB-V7. I added a toroid near the BB-V7 and on the USB, near the laptop. No locking up so that part was solved. Than I noticed that the noise became stronger with spikes every 500kHz or so when I started WSJT-X. I did not transmit at that stage. so the noise was coming from the laptop. I didn't use external power to elimminate noise coming in throught that cable. As I had another toroid I put it on the 705 side of the USB cable that stopped the noise. I think the laptopscreen was producing the noise (with the waterfall on screen), that was being picked up by the USB cable and send into the 705. So my formally 2m long USB cable has a toroid at the beginning and at the end.
Maybe others can reproduce this outcome.
Sounds like you got it 👍
When you are testing with the Nano Vna, it would be good to check your polarization. Vertical/Horizontal can make a big difference. Also holding the antenna next to coax should be done the same way every time. K6DCH
You are correct sir!
I am new to digital Modes and I found when txing and returning to decide mode my 705 would remain in TX while WSJTX. I have a USB cord with no Ferrite ring attached. Could that be my problem? TNKS 72
Sure could. Give it a try!
Thank you for the information.
You bet!
Have you thought about disabling the touchpad on the laptop?
I hadn't thought about it. How would that help?
GEEEEEK Pi! 😅 Great job Steve, this is my kind of video. Thanks for spending the time. 73, K7KS
Glad you like it Alan! It was fun to make and share.
I read somewhere that some USB3 ports are notorious RFI Broadcasters. Is that a USB3 port you're using? Might be worth a try to see if it is better on a USB2 port.
I think both laptops were usb3.
@@temporarilyoffline OK. Here's where I first learned about this issue. Jason talks about the issue at about 5:00 minutes in
ua-cam.com/video/sS9bqNKvAAs/v-deo.html
Great information Steve, thanks!👍
You're welcome!
Probably not entirely PC these days, but my grandpa always said "There's more than one way to skin a cat".
Your grandpa was a wise man!
Great video and got a lot of ideas for my QTH noise issues. Thanks! (N3RP)
Glad it helped!
Run with a USB hub. For a moment I thought the intermod was from the LCD. Thats the issue with my 705.
Good idea!
Interesting. My antennas are about 70ft from the operating position and the computer & USB hose are about three feet apart. the USB hose has a strap-on ferrite at each end. Sometimes, depending on band, I get some kind of noise out of the radio when the antenna feed of the radio is open. Hose up an antenna to the radio and the bit of noise "goes away." Even with the cheap laptop that I got to go POTA with -- just in time for the weather to chill me out and Cindy to spend the next two weeks recovering from eye surgery. It's all a matter of timing. And distance ;-) 73 de W8IJN
I have a similar situation with my antenna that is 70ft away - no problems there.
You may wish to reduce the number of joins on your buddy pole feedline. I remember having in drilled into me that each time that you join your coax you lose your signal. When I used to work on the tools the cowboys in the industry would extend antenna cables the professionals would simply say No it's too lossy! Not to mention we could book more hours. But inline with any signal losses where there is the chance of signal loss there is the chance to introduce noise. 😉
Exactly! Either I plug in extra feed line or I don't get on HF - so some losses are acceptable.
@@temporarilyoffline the rule of Needs Must!
@@jamesmoore6424 when the devil drives!
The loss from the extra connectors is so small. You can measure it with a VNA but you will never notice it on the air. In fact if TO would measure the loss of his extra cable with the choke on it I would guess the loss would be less than .5 dB.
@@terry5089 Yeah, but when you do it for commercial. You don't want to give the customer a reason to complain.... I have arraived at a customers siste and looked at antenna runs with just 3 joins on UHF and a yagi pointing to a repeater sight ( i know it's not hf) but was not getting into the repeater, plugged in my Bird meter and tripped the repeater with ethe bird but not with the bird removed... re ran the coax 1.2 to one... close enough and good reports. 😁
Remove the chokes, mount the buddy pole on a fibreglass or wood mount and see what happens. I bet everything is trying to pull to ground capacitively via the metal mount on the buddy pole antenna. I say this because the DX commander has a good ground system and the dummy load was sitting on wood.
Not a bad idea! You're right that its an RF Grounding issue for sure.
Great video! I really like your content. Keep up the awesome work brother.
Thanks! You got it!
Stock waterfall colors? Make it pretty.
Some day
@@temporarilyoffline put that carrier point where it should be as well. It just looks wrong on SSB. I wonder even why iCom put it there by default.
@@forgetyourlife I like to run my FT8 waterfall at 2.5k display, and having the center point "proper" means I have to run 5k to see the waterfall on the right side of the display - the only "argument" that exists in defense of doing it wrong. :-D
I see you there, Perl programmer!
My Name is Steve and I am a recovering Perl programmer.
Very helpful, thanks for this!
Sure thing. Did you see the first one? ua-cam.com/video/gwdEZlHSmjg/v-deo.html
@@temporarilyoffline No but I will. Do have 705 as of earlier this month.
WFView, WSJTX and JT Sync. No issues with USB noise 🙂
No USB = No USB noise! Same here.
I'll have to ask Santa for some toe-roids this Xmas.
That's what I always wish for!
I had a noisy cheapo switching supply. Choke on power at rig. No joy. Disconnected ant and zero noise! Not coming in power but ant. Solution was put toroid immediately at the power supply - fixed! The dc leads were acting as antenna broadcasting that noise till the toroid stopped that!
It's a hunt! Glad you found it!
Sound like grounding issues. No common ground. Or more shielding needed on the USB cable.
Maybe
Im pretty sure the plaid flannel suppresses 2-3dB of noise.
I'm OK with that. You'll probably see more plaid as winter goes on.
So how could I choke my coax when it's LMR-400? lol I don't think wrapping it like you did with that one is going to be possible.
You can clamp on a bunch of beads, but that's kind of a pain... maybe build a dedicated 1:1 in a box with some panel mount SO-239s?
@@temporarilyoffline that's a great idea, actually!! This is why I love this community!
Old video I know... I had the same issue with my x6100 and ferrites on both ends of the USB fixed it.
Sweet!
The 705 has Wi-Fi. "SDR Control" for mac will solve this easy. Lose the usb cables
I showed that in the video and listed it in the description.
@@temporarilyoffline Ah sorry missed that. Excellent video btw. I am going to give this a try. (New subscriber)
@@jeff-73 thanks for watching, I do experiments like this all the time. You'll love it.
@greatscott just did a video about a month ago about a usb filter. might look at that.
Thanks for the tip!
Choke everything on both ends.
Exactly! Makes it a bit more bulky for portable work though...
What a s beautilful Area! 💯👍👍👍
This is my favorite time of year!
@@temporarilyoffline Same on me Steve, Springbreak to beginning of June and from August to mid of October is my favourite Time of the Year for any kinds of outdoor Activities. Happy tuesday into WI-State and say hello from me to Leah & Rebecca. Hope they doing well and finding their way back to HAM Radio again.
73 de YFUG from southwest Germany 💯🙋♂
Will do, thanks!
I saw here first.... TO. is using a Carlos Antenna... I mean dummy load.
Somebody has to carry on the legacy!
Always be choking :)
ABC Baby!
So sad when hams use a tuner on a very easy to tune antenna...$1300 radio a $300+ antenna and a good bet did not bother with a antenna analyzer...Someone PLEASE tell me why people use a tuner on a buddipole or buddistick...They are NOT hard to set up and tune..Once done leave the clips in place and they can be set up in running in less then 10 mins...And you do NOT need a fancy antenna analyzer like a Rigexpert or something like that..I use nothing more them a iPortable iP60z in my 705 go box and it works perfect for it..Once set the first time you just set the Buddipole up scan it real fast make any minor whip adjustments and done...Close to $2000 in just the radio and antenna and uses a tuner 🙄🤥..People can jump me all they want here but if we are going to spend this kind of money on just 2 things why not spend an extra $249 on a antenna analyzer and do things the right way..Am I being harsh and a jerk....Maybe yes however useing a tuner for a Buddipole is NOT needed or doing things at the best..Spend a little extra buy a antenna analyzer take that antenna out to the field the back yard wherever take the time the antenna analyzer TUNE it leave the tuner at home...Having used the Buddipole and Buddistick for years now I can say with a little time they will rock on a 705 or any radio when tuned..
Some people's kids man!
……or make your own video showing how you you do things. “TMTOWTDI”
The noise on the USB is simply RFI generated by the laptop, and it makes the usb controller on the radio unhappy.
If you open the laptop up you'll see all the shielding inside of them used to contain it, including metalizing plastic parts with copper. The USB cable creates an electrical connection between the radio and the laptop, giving that RFI a place to go. If you use a second receiver, you'll see the usb cable also radiates, which is why it's best the toroid is near the laptop end of the cable.
"Shielded" cables are basically pointless because that braid in the shielding just creates a nice low impedance path for the RFI the laptop creates to flow along. (A shielded usb cable is basically just a coaxial cable with multiple center conductors) Different story if you carefully severed the braid at one end of the cable so it acts like a faraday cage and not an rf conductor.
The antenna and all of the coax is simply creating a ground plane for the laptop's RFI and the radio is the bridge between the laptop and that ground plane. Everything about USB is RF friendly, especially the wide flat plugs, which is why the toroid solution has repeatedly been proven to be the correct answer to the problem. It jacks up the impedance on the cable and simply gets turned into heat in the toroid.
Absolutely correct!
I got a lot of postiive feedback from my transformer, needless to say I didnt get alot of likes or subscribers as well.
It takes a long time for a new channel to gain traction. Keep at it!
Aloha Steve, I’m not always into some of your more “brainiac” videos, only because some of the older computer stuff goes way over my head.
In this case, I totally understand your dilemma because we deal with a ton of interference from all the military bases here on Oahu, especially from Pearl Harbor/Hickam. Plus we must deal with a lot of interference from all the Waikiki area hotels that have old and outdated repeaters. Usually, each hotel has two repeaters, one for housekeeping and the other for security and both are usually mounted on the roof of the hotels.
I’ll give you a great example, I use to live right next to the Waikiki Marriott Hotel on Ohua Avenue and my buddy, Kenny, a fellow US Marine, is still head of Security there. I owned and had coordinated the Waikiki Repeater that worked fine for many years but started getting interference from two sources, the Marriott and the Hilton Prince Kuhio.
The Hilton was actually easy to deal with because they came to me and asked me to change the frequency of my repeater, that I was bleeding onto their repeater for security, lol.
They had two things going on, one was a really old repeater and the other was they were using a third party that had set up their communications needs which I won’t name here.
I could hear them also, so I had this manager from this communications company asked me personally to change the frequency of the Waikiki repeater that was coordinated with the State of Hawaii.
I told him point blank that changing my frequency wasn’t going to make a difference because(1)they were using really old and outdated repeaters(2) their coax cable has gone bad from all the VOG from the Big Island volcano, 3) Not coordinated with the State and 4) Transmitting on the Amateur radio bands.
I told the Hilton, who was ready to sue me if I didn’t change frequency or remove the Waikiki repeater, that the FCC would fine them $15k per day for as long as their violations continued and/or if I registered a complaint to FCC, which I didn’t need to.
After sitting down for a meeting with their hotel manager, a hilton attorney, the manager of the third party for communications, and myself, they finally saw things in the same light as I did, the FCC fines of $15k a day convinced them to buy two new digital repeaters, problem solved, right? No, there was other hotels in the area that were waiting for the outcome also. All the hotels around me changed to new digital repeaters also except the Marriott, which did everything right from the beginning, was coordinated on the business band and everything.
We did get the Marriott to drop a few grand for new LMR 400 coax from the roof to their security office on the third floor. The VOG had damaged their old coax over the 12 year period when it was last installed.
Steve, long story short, this could be one of the major shortcomings of the ICOM IC 705? Can this problem be fixed internally by ICOM?
From what I understand icom doesn't want to fix this problem, instead leaving it up to us. Nothing is ever "right" in our world, it's just "right now"
@@temporarilyoffline I do know that Ray Novak N9JA of Icom America works very hard to find solutions to problems that do come up occasionally and maybe with your two videos,Steve, maybe there will be an update or a patch that fixes this issue.
BTW, Ray gave me a new D Star repeater to put up here in the Honolulu area and got it set up last year in order to start HERO-Hawaii Emergency Radio Operators. We’re just a bunch of US Marines that were not afraid of Fauci’s bioweapons to be the only organization in the country to do in person VE Testing Exams and online. We have been having difficulties obtaining ARRL status since our ARRL Sec. Manager is loyal to another amateur radio club but these things usually work themselves out over time. At least we obtained none profit status, that’s a great thing for a club that’s only less than a year old.
Steve, you are a valuable asset to the Amateur Radio community for some of the most in depth videos of our times. I absolutely cringed when you took apart a brand new Xiegu X6100 and made it look easy. I know you told me that your video challenged your abilities while making it but it also gave a lot hams hope that we can still take radios apart and put them back together again, which is what got me into Amateur radio in the early 1970’s with those free Citco radios my grandparents got every time they fill up their gas tank. I can’t tell you the number of times I took one of those apart. Thanks Steve! 👍
@@digitaldreamer5481 HERO sound awesome! It takes real courage to hold your principles in today's world of little sense.
1st 3rd!
Lieutenant Awesome!
1st second ✅
Commander Awesome!
1st
Captain Awesome!
Thanks Steve, great stuff. VK3SH
Any time Stuart!
Had same problem with usb crashing ft8 program your gas pump solution solved it dead so thankyou Dylan m0dsy🏴
Glad it worked out Dylan!