This is a tricky situation. Coming from a person who is heavily invested in Kill Team and Warhammer Underworlds, I would love to get into Blackstone Fortress for the narative as well as the single player potential in the current Nurgle Plague Situation. It may be more likely that I wait for the next big dungeon crawler 40k that comes down the pipe and expand through that one as the expansions come out.
40k hopefully, just because in terms of side games that provide avenues for new models, aos has warcry and underworlds, 40k has nothing really unless you count necromunda and even that’s a stretch.
Would you consider doing a video about the order the expansions should be played in as well as how to start new quests (is equipment kept, which cards to include from previous expansions, etc.) as we are nearing an apparent end to the life cycle of the game? I've seen this question asked on reddit with no useful answers.
Hi, my video here is probably what you're after: ua-cam.com/video/njcr6en4JQs/v-deo.html Basically, you complete the core game and then move on to expansion missions. You retain any gear and rewards received for completing each mission. The main narrative spans the core set, then Escalation, and will culminate in Ascension. Other expansions are like side quests. However, the expansions were really designed to be played in the sequence they came out.
Here in 2022 BSF has been restocked again, and I finally picked it up (alongside cursed city) and I'm going to have to make do without any expansions at all I suppose. Outside of fan made ones.
Has any of the expansions actually tied into the greater narrative of 40k? Besides the stuff in the main box, like Amallyns secret agenda, i dont think ive seen anything like that.
Welp. Given how things turned out with Cursed City (I did get a copy) I finally decided to cave in and pick up Blackstone Fortress while it's still available. I'm a silly, silly person, but at least this has the solitaire option, so I'll get some plays out of it eventually. I do own the Servants of the Abyss box, along with the heroes from Escalation (courtesy of the Combat Arena game), so I already had a few bits of the game around. When Space Marine Adventures "Doomsday Countdown" comes out, I'll have most of the cultists too (not the flamer dude, he's not included). Someday, I may find a reasonably priced Escalation expansion minus the minis, which would be fine. If Cursed City doesn't wind up with expansions, at least I got this sci-fi game too. lol.
My local GW is part of a group of GW that are 'open' again. They only allow quick pickups, no browsing or playing, only 4 people in total in the store, and they're not getting new stock, so if they run out, they'll still be out of it for a while. But it does mean we can start picking up a couple of things again. But I also live in a part of the Netherlands where we've had very few infections and deaths (we've had in total what some areas have had in a single day, and that's over the last month and a half, pretty big difference), so we've been getting a bit more freedom here now.
That's cool. I'm glad you're able to get into stores. The US and UK is still a complete lockdown at the moment. Grab some spray paint. That seems to be the thing everybody is after at the moment!
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring I got the Escalation expansion (just to make sure I have it, since we'll need it for later stuff) and the last can of Wraith Bone (I've been cursing myself for spraying my fire coloured War Hydra with the grey one and then using the yellow contrast paint, not making that mistake again...).
Given that I don’t have any Blackstone Fortress stuff currently, and I decided a month ago I wanted to pick it all up (with nothing available).... you’ve got me worried!
Sorry, don't mean to cause panic. Keep in mind that lockdown is disrupting distribution considerably at the moment. A lot of stuff that's showing unavailable may become available once things get back to normal a bit. If you really want it all, it might be a good idea to start setting aside the funds, and don't waste too much time when you get a chance to purchase. The card packs are pretty much gone for good, but if you've seen my reviews for them, you'll know I didn't think they were the best things anyway so you aren't missing much.
Thanks for the suggestion. I have to be honest, I probably won't cover it. I don't tend to play fan made expansions (I rarely even use house rules, although I did introduce a few for Blackstone Fortress), and I would be reluctant to review passion projects. It's one thing for me to review something that a designer was paid to make and be honest about what I like and don't like so people can make a more informed purchase decision, but I wouldn't want to be critical about something that people are making for free for the good of the community. I never say never, but at the moment I don't see me making any videos. It's great that Blackstone Fortress has generated a solid fan base willing to make new content though.
That would be cool. I've been saying for a little while that it would be interesting to have a new setting, perhaps on a death world, with a more open environment. A little more room for a dread to stomp around in, perhaps! I remain optimistic that this isn't really the end (and I'm going to look like a right lemon if I'm wrong).
I seem to remember GW teasing the Zoat before ever announcing No Respite. I wonder if they won’t try to squeeze one last mini expansion in after the Zoat. What push fit sprue do they have in the 40k range that they might shoehorn in I wonder?
To be honest, I'd be surprised if they did. With the lockdown delays, I feel they would have led with news of another expansion like that and held off on revealing how the story ends soon. I would be happy to be wrong though.
I hope if they make another co-op game that relies heavily on the gampaign, they actually bother to develop the game system deep enough to be capable to represent progression between the delves in a way that can be actually felt.
Continuing the co-op, campaign system they've established here would be a good move, and I've really enjoyed how completing each expansion has introduced new perks and opened up new areas of Precipice. A little more tweaking on scaling and difficulty would be a good thing.
I think at a certain point, you’re looking at more of an RPG rather than a dedicated board game dungeon delver. I agree that there is potential in developing more in-depth legacy mechanics and progression. I’d like to feel the consequences of an extended dungeon delve, limiting supplies in the form of available options on a given turn depending on how many sessions/levels/encounters the team has had. I.e. fewer attacks per turn due to lower ammo, limited heal potential, limited special use, etc.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring A campaign that spans for so long yet throughout it both heroes and enemies are almost entirely the same from start to finish is not a good campaign.
Blackstone Fortress has been far from perfect, but I've really enjoyed its structure, so I guess this is something we'll just have to disagree on. I do see what you're saying, but they made a conscious decision to make the game work in a different kind of way. It's always felt more like Advanced Space Crusade to me. Thanks for sharing your views. We'll have to see what the next Quest (if there is one) brings to the table.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring I'm not saying it's a bad game, it's a good game which tries to do two polar opposites at the same time, due to which it overperforms in one and underperforms in another. It tried to be simple and accessible, with least rules and fiddly stuff, which it executes perfect, but then it tried to have a long ass campaign, but due to very simplified ruleset it cannot offer for that campaign to be different enough to be worth it.
Aboslutely fantastic info here, thanks a lot mate. I am (very) late to the party and only discovering these series. After binge watching your WHQ videos I jumped in with the CUrsed city (battle ready painted - my credit card received a critical hit and needs at least 2 full turns to recover). I am also thinking about this one but the Escalation exp is nowehere to be bought. I already sold my kidney for KDM so this option is out. Is it really THAT good and critical to the game?
Thanks for watching the channel. Cursed City is great, and the recent news of its return and forthcoming expansions has made me very excited. Blackstone Fortress is wonderful too, and I think the play styles are different enough to mean you can find space on your shelf for both. Cursed City is very fast-paced, hack and slash action with really dangerous enemies that can cause massive damage, while Blackstone is more methodical, and feels more like a squad-level game with a small unit dropped behind enemy lines. That being said, Blackstone is discontinued and the expansions are hard to find. Furthermore, apart from Dreaded Ambull and Traitor Command, every expansion requires content from Escalation (and Escalation and Ascension are the two big expansions that close out the main narrative). At this stage I really feel like it's only worth picking up Blackstone if you will be content with just the core game, as it's going to be so expensive to get anything else. You may be better off waiting for those Cursed City expansions instead and expanding on the game you already have.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Thanks for the additional info, very helpful. I checked in many places for this damned Escalation but in vain. Found one offer for some crazy money... Shame really. Oh well I suppose I will wait for the arrival of CC. Are you planning on more videos on CC? Some playthroughs perhaps?
As long as I can get the expansions I will cover Cursed City. I had held off doing too much coverage as the game wasn't available, but if that's going to change then so will my stance on covering it.
It's a great game. I have the base, all the current expansions and card sets as well as 3d printed scenery which is available from the Dragon Nest eBay store. It really adds to the game and is a definite must as long as you don't mind an extra 30 seconds of set up per expedition. I agree with Always Board, it would be expensive at the moment to get everything but if you are like me and remember fondly the Hero Quest or Space Crusade games, it may be worth it.
It's a fantastic game. Reminds me very much of Advanced Space Crusade. I never bothered with the 3D terrain elements. I'm sure there are lots of people who really get a kick out of them, and I'm glad you're enjoying using them, but I would recommend they're the last thing on people's shopping list if they're just getting into the game (not least because I suspect those terrain elements will still be available from sellers after the game is out of print, because they aren't official).
It feels expensive when you already have the miniatures. It's a good expansion though. I like the missions in it, and while I don't think they did enough with the diseases, it is something else to think about. But... Yeah... It's a steep asking price when you don't want the miniatures. It's a tough one.
I think if you are trying to save money, this expansion would be at the top of the list to let pass by. The missions aren’t bad, but not worth $60 USD when we’ve been absolutely flooded with these minis since eighth edition came out.
A few months back, I discovered BSF and picked it up. I think it is a great game. I am concerned about GW ending this product. I did pickup Traitor Command yesterday (unfortunately I didn't get the minis). I will be looking for the two (maybe three BSF products) before the end of the year. But one question I have is that if one wanted to get the full and complete narrative of the game, do you have to buy all of the expansions? BTW, I counted 9 of them.
Mike Earle In total there are six boxed expansions (four released so far) and three card packs for nine total. There has also been an annual and some miniatures packs that are duplicates from the core set and Escalation expansion. The card packs are out of print. The main story comprises the core set, then Escalation and finally Ascension. The other expansions flesh out the setting and experience but circle the main narrative. I have done comprehensive videos on all expansions here on the channel if you want to check them out for more details.
I’m glad you gave me the heads-up about Escalation. After some internet surfing, I was able to pick it up for a not too bad price, before the prices start soaring.
Do you think the small box expansion will be reprinted ? I want to get No respite ,dreaded amble, trader command ,expansion but eBay is 200$ each ... nm you said in your video 😿
Yes, unfortunately it's very unlikely you will see any reprints and the secondary market just keeps getting more expensive. I hope you manage to find what you want eventually.
Crazy how quickly this goes out of print! I may just wait for the new version and wont miss anything than, but buying a Core game and after 1-2 month an expension may be not available...Cant buy everything at once...and dont want to miss out as well
I can understand that. The game will be two years old this November, and I think we'll have had the last expansion by then. After that, there's no telling how long things will stay in stock. It's certainly a concern if you're in the position where you would want everything, but I do think the core box, plus Escalation, plus Ascension (when it comes out) would still be a great experience. It's a difficult time to know what to do, really. Whatever you do, I hope you make the best choice for you. Thanks for watching.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring I like Shadows of Brimstone and still sells expansions that came out 5 years ago... I am sure more people have Warhammer and still...they could restock time to time as well. Maybe its an evil business logic :/
I'd be okay with either, really. I loved Silver Tower and Shadows Over Hammerhal, so if they want to make another and give it some better support, I'll be quite happy. Maybe they could switch between AoS and 40K every two years?
I reckon the base game, escalation and ascension would be essential purchases if you want to get in on this now (I will definitely be doing that). Personally I would be splitting my purchases in 3 waves in order of release date: Core Game + Ambull + Traitor Command; Escalation + Deadly Alliance; Ascension + No Respite. If I had to guess, I would expect Ambull and Traitor Command to be dropped from production first. Also depending on what else you play, you could squeeze additional value out of this: a couple of models from Escalation are considered pretty competitive in 40k (the tech priest comes to mind, and I think the psyker is pretty good too). Pretty much all of them can be used in Kill Team and I think there was a white dwarf article detailling how to play a game of Kill Team set within the Blackstone Fortress
Yes, Ambull and Traitor Command were the first two expansions. They will almost certainly sell out first. Ascension is a concern, as it's coming out on the tail end, and I'm predicting conservative production numbers. I definitely agree that core, Escalation and Ascension are the three most important items as they're the core narrative. Everything else is sort of happening around the main event. All of the Blackstone miniatures have rules for 40K, and most have Kill Team rules, which is nice. I've covered all of the White Dwarf content Games Workshop have made for this game, which did indeed include rules for using the Blackstone tiles for Kill Team.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Also I think it would be silly to ignore this game just because support is ending soon. This isn't a competitive game like 40K where constant re-balancing and a large player base are needed, it's a quest based RPG type game that won't require constant new updates to remain playable. It's like how the original Space Hulk games are still perfectly good these days even though they've been dropped for years. Hell, even Space Crusade is still pretty good and that's ancient now! The only problem you might face over time is finding other people to play with, but this game has an AI system, so you can still treat it like a single player RPG video game if you wanted to (that's how I'll probably play it for the most part)
That's a very good point. It's usually pretty easy to find people who want to go on an adventure, and I mainly play solo anyway (in fact, of the three modern Quest games, this is the one that I recommend for solo play). I still love Space Crusade and Space Hulk, by the way.
If you’re a completionist, it’s probably best to pass by, and remind yourself not to wait so long next time. The card based expansions are already hard to find, and I expect the Blackstone boxed expansions to disappear fairly quickly as well, as they would have been produced in far smaller numbers. If you can still get the base game and perhaps a copy of Escalation, there’s a lot of play value there; a lot of the other expansions were just a single quest. I’m not as rosy on the future of Quest as some others. Silver Tower had a lot of buzz, but a fair number of people were disappointed by the simple mechanics and lack of replayability. Shadows I think was an ever bigger disappointment, and I seldom saw it being played, with recycled models and requiring a GM. Blackstone has clearly been more successful with the support it got, but was it successful enough to pursue over other things their game designers and mini developers could be doing? Only time will tell.
For people who aren't familiar with Games Workshop, the speed the company works at can be a bit unexpected. It's very easy to get taken by surprised when they release a card pack, and next month that pack just isn't available anymore (or whatever). For people who are coming from a board game world where you can still walk into a store and buy Catan it can be a culture shock, and that's not really their fault. It's particularly hard for people who didn't even know this game existed, or maybe didn't have the funds last year. I'm seeing a few people who are only just discovering the game, and now they are facing a bit of a steep hill. I'm not personally a completionist (although I do own all Blackstone content except the extra miniatures packs), and I agree that the base game alone is worth owning. Adding Escalation is a good call, and they're certainly the products I would grab first if I was just starting out. I would then make sure I got Ascension too, just so I had the completion of the main story. Anything after that is a bonus. I certainly have a more optimistic outlook than you on the Quest line. I've personally loved all three games, and I would be very surprised if we don't get a fourth iteration at some point. As you say, time will tell. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Always Board Never Boring It’s always good to have a discussion, even if we don’t agree 100% on stuff. There is definitely a divide between mainstream boardgaming and wargaming/minis. Wargaming has always been a lot more niche and tolerant of things like expansions, where that is largely unheard of boardgaming. You buy Catan or Ticket to Ride, and that’s it. Maybe someday there will be a new edition or variant, but in general boardgaming doesn’t usually have direct expansions. So it can be a culture shock to someone trying to move into the wargaming side. At the same time, given the absolute glut of products trying to move into the market these days, I think smaller, and much more limited production runs are going to be the ‘new normal’. So many products are competing for attention every week, that stuff is frequently forgotten almost immediately upon release these days, and has almost no sales ‘legs’ after launch. That is one reason even established companies have been turning to crowdfunding as a preorder interest gauge. Then they can produce the exact number to meet demand, and maybe a few more depending on production thresholds, and that may be it. Doing second runs and so on may be too much of a risk to smaller companies if they get stuck with inventory these days. Welcome to gaming 2020.
Feel free to post any opinions you want; I appreciate anyone taking the time to watch the videos and share their thoughts, regardless of whether I agree. Sometimes I wonder whether Kickstarter created the buy now, forget later approach to miniatures board games, or whether the platform developed in popularity because so many gamers already thought that way. I expect the truth is somewhere in the middle. Or it's just CMoN's fault! I don't touch Kickstarter at all these days, and hope we don't ever get in a situation where that's the normal route to market. You're right that miniatures gaming in general is a tough nut to crack. Little companies like Oathsworn can have a nice business with boutique games and miniatures with stuff like Burrows and Badgers, but FFG found out first hand the problem they were up against when they launched the Runewars miniatures game, which never got any traction in the UK at all.
Always Board Never Boring I think Kickstarter both helped create the glut, and has provided a way for some to manage their companies. It has given an outlet for a lot of middle of the road to low quality junk to get onto the market easily, for sure. At the same time, it has provided an opportunity to companies like Steve Jackson Games to keep lower demand product like Ogre alive, as it just doesn’t have the level of support to be viable at retail these days. But on a crowdfunding platform they can continue to produce new Ogre product, as they can exactly forecast demand and backers assume the risk. Otherwise, Ogre may have gone to the great game graveyard in the sky. Being good isn’t enough to succeed in 2020 with so many games out there. There’s just so much out there, that it is easy to get ignored and bypassed. If it’s any consolation, Runewars was dead on arrival here, too. The gaming glut has had an effect on retail as well. The three stores nearest to me have largely all become ‘GW & Star Wars’ shops. They are too afraid of and unwilling to take the risk on stocking anything else but top proven sellers. Their position is understandable, but it is not good for gaming as a whole.
@@mjames70 In fairness, I wasn't interested in Runewars anyway. I still wouldn't mind giving Legion a try at some point. I like Star Wars but I'm not a huge fan, so I'm interested to see if it's good enough to pull me in regardless. Elder Scrolls: Call to Arms is the new game system that I'm looking forward to diving into most at the moment, anyway.
Just bought the Anual, Nurgle and Traitor "expansions". The prices are a bad joke, like their "Contrast Paint" for around 6£. I still love their 40k and FB world. I also like the two player Nightvault series and will buy some of the teams. Since I have a big pile of shame, I have no problem stopping to buy from them. There is also a BIG second hand market. Never preorder esp. digital products. There will be no shortage.
I don't agree about never preordering. Lots of their products sell out on the first day. I still remember really struggling to get Shadow War: Armageddon, which sold out within minutes, and only this year I had a terrible time trying to get ground assets for Aeronautica, which I foolishly assumed would be around for longer than they were. Digital products are a different matter entirely, and I must stress I don't mean preordering from Games Workshop. I have my favoured online store, and I preorder there, guarantee I get the products I want, and save 20-30 percent. If I know I want something, it makes sense to preorder.
It really depends on the products in question. Sometimes you can spot a pattern: any big boxes that represents a major discount compared to buying models separately (for example the starter sets for a lot of games) will usually have 1 production run and that's it. For those products, you would really need to pre-order if you want to beat the rush. I remember the Apocalypse sets from last year selling out within a couple of hours
@@101Phase That is true. Ancillary products also tend to vanish quickly. Unit cards and the like. Aeronautica hasn't been out all that long, and while it took months rather than days, it's already no longer possible to get the unit cards, the ground assets, or even the full size battle mat. I just always make sure I have money set aside and preorder whenever something comes along that I know I really want, as it avoids the potential risk. I wouldn't want to take any chances with the last expansion for Blackstone. I would be kicking myself if for, whatever reason, I wasn't able to get the expansion that finishes the main campaign story!
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring yeah, I'm with you on preordering things. Especially, if you use the same store for the majority of your purchases. Doubly so, for something like this, where you're definitely going to pick this stuff up. If you're someone that believes that you must wait for reviews to come out before buying something, that's it's own thing. Same goes for digital though.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring I've always been confused by this: card based products are easier to manufacture so you'd think they would just keep those rolling. Hell, make them made to order, how difficult would that be? I feel like GW is just creating an artifical shortage most of the time.
Thanks. I tried to cover all the things I thought were considerations, although I'm sure I forgot a few, and I'm sure other people have different opinions! Also, I was only thinking from the perspective of getting into this game. Someone else has made a good point about getting use of the miniatures in 40K and Kill Team, which I omitted from the discussion in the video but which are also valid considerations when making a purchase.
There are a couple of squats in Necromunda now, right? It wouldn't surprise me if one of those turned up in White Dwarf as a retinue character before the end. But a proper playable character would be fun.
I agree the base game is a great experience straight out of the box. The expansions are expensive, but Games Workshop in general is expensive. I mean, Games Workshop charge £25 for an ogroid, which is similar sort of size to an ambull, and the ambull expansion is £35, so the actual cards and new adventure are quite reasonable based on that comparison. The best value expansion is Escalation, even though it's the most expensive. Extra heroes, extra monsters, extra ships, extra resources, extra board tiles, an interesting new way to play, and an extension of the main narrative make it a winner. The content is also used for a lot of White Dwarf content and "unlocks" the subsequent expansions. The hardest pill to swallow for me was No Respite, because I had multiple sets of the miniatures already.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring well, the base box is actually not expensive considering how much is in it... And for a boardgamer no respite is actually one of a better ones, 9 minis for the same price as those with 1 or 2.
Ben Runciman It’s a bittersweet pill for the community as a whole I think. Personally, I like the fact that I can put everything together very quickly and move into either painting or playing. A large barrier to entry for the hobby IMO is getting over build anxiety. Kitbash potential is lower at the moment, however I think with the proper mould design, a certain level of customization could be added in the future in the form of push-fit heads, weapon alternatives for same fit and stance, equipment, etc... I think at the end of the day you’re trading customization and artistry for accessibility and hobby momentum.
This is a tricky situation. Coming from a person who is heavily invested in Kill Team and Warhammer Underworlds, I would love to get into Blackstone Fortress for the narative as well as the single player potential in the current Nurgle Plague Situation. It may be more likely that I wait for the next big dungeon crawler 40k that comes down the pipe and expand through that one as the expansions come out.
It's a tough call. I hope the video at least helps you to weigh up some of the various considerations.
Sheeeet
It’ll be exciting to see what kind of Warhammer Quest comes next.
I hope they do it, and it's something as interesting as the Blackstone Fortress was. It was a fantastic, mysterious setting for an adventure.
If they're going back to 40K then I hope they do something involving the Inquisition :D
40k hopefully, just because in terms of side games that provide avenues for new models, aos has warcry and underworlds, 40k has nothing really unless you count necromunda and even that’s a stretch.
The next Warhammer Quest could be "Old World" themed... just a guess.
I would love another 40k Quest. though.
If wigs weren’t so soft, the game will come out faster and better. But since wig so soft we can’t
Would you consider doing a video about the order the expansions should be played in as well as how to start new quests (is equipment kept, which cards to include from previous expansions, etc.) as we are nearing an apparent end to the life cycle of the game? I've seen this question asked on reddit with no useful answers.
Hi, my video here is probably what you're after: ua-cam.com/video/njcr6en4JQs/v-deo.html
Basically, you complete the core game and then move on to expansion missions. You retain any gear and rewards received for completing each mission. The main narrative spans the core set, then Escalation, and will culminate in Ascension. Other expansions are like side quests. However, the expansions were really designed to be played in the sequence they came out.
Here in 2022 BSF has been restocked again, and I finally picked it up (alongside cursed city) and I'm going to have to make do without any expansions at all I suppose. Outside of fan made ones.
That's great. I hope you have as much fun with them both as I do!
Maybe Ascension will be tied in to the release of 9th ed.
Has any of the expansions actually tied into the greater narrative of 40k? Besides the stuff in the main box, like Amallyns secret agenda, i dont think ive seen anything like that.
Welp. Given how things turned out with Cursed City (I did get a copy) I finally decided to cave in and pick up Blackstone Fortress while it's still available. I'm a silly, silly person, but at least this has the solitaire option, so I'll get some plays out of it eventually. I do own the Servants of the Abyss box, along with the heroes from Escalation (courtesy of the Combat Arena game), so I already had a few bits of the game around. When Space Marine Adventures "Doomsday Countdown" comes out, I'll have most of the cultists too (not the flamer dude, he's not included). Someday, I may find a reasonably priced Escalation expansion minus the minis, which would be fine. If Cursed City doesn't wind up with expansions, at least I got this sci-fi game too. lol.
My local GW is part of a group of GW that are 'open' again. They only allow quick pickups, no browsing or playing, only 4 people in total in the store, and they're not getting new stock, so if they run out, they'll still be out of it for a while. But it does mean we can start picking up a couple of things again. But I also live in a part of the Netherlands where we've had very few infections and deaths (we've had in total what some areas have had in a single day, and that's over the last month and a half, pretty big difference), so we've been getting a bit more freedom here now.
That's cool. I'm glad you're able to get into stores. The US and UK is still a complete lockdown at the moment. Grab some spray paint. That seems to be the thing everybody is after at the moment!
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring I got the Escalation expansion (just to make sure I have it, since we'll need it for later stuff) and the last can of Wraith Bone (I've been cursing myself for spraying my fire coloured War Hydra with the grey one and then using the yellow contrast paint, not making that mistake again...).
Given that I don’t have any Blackstone Fortress stuff currently, and I decided a month ago I wanted to pick it all up (with nothing available).... you’ve got me worried!
Sorry, don't mean to cause panic. Keep in mind that lockdown is disrupting distribution considerably at the moment. A lot of stuff that's showing unavailable may become available once things get back to normal a bit. If you really want it all, it might be a good idea to start setting aside the funds, and don't waste too much time when you get a chance to purchase. The card packs are pretty much gone for good, but if you've seen my reviews for them, you'll know I didn't think they were the best things anyway so you aren't missing much.
I would love to see a video of your thoughts on the "Beyond Precipice" FB groups fan made expansions.
Thanks for the suggestion. I have to be honest, I probably won't cover it. I don't tend to play fan made expansions (I rarely even use house rules, although I did introduce a few for Blackstone Fortress), and I would be reluctant to review passion projects. It's one thing for me to review something that a designer was paid to make and be honest about what I like and don't like so people can make a more informed purchase decision, but I wouldn't want to be critical about something that people are making for free for the good of the community. I never say never, but at the moment I don't see me making any videos. It's great that Blackstone Fortress has generated a solid fan base willing to make new content though.
Lord I want a WQ Hive city run that I can reskin to a Dune Sitch assault game.
That would be cool. I'm sort of hoping we can a spiritual successor to Advanced Space Crusade with the hive ship.
I feel a bit cheated by GW but should not be surprised. I was hoping to see a Chaos Dreadnaught make an appearance.
That would be cool. I've been saying for a little while that it would be interesting to have a new setting, perhaps on a death world, with a more open environment. A little more room for a dread to stomp around in, perhaps! I remain optimistic that this isn't really the end (and I'm going to look like a right lemon if I'm wrong).
I seem to remember GW teasing the Zoat before ever announcing No Respite. I wonder if they won’t try to squeeze one last mini expansion in after the Zoat. What push fit sprue do they have in the 40k range that they might shoehorn in I wonder?
To be honest, I'd be surprised if they did. With the lockdown delays, I feel they would have led with news of another expansion like that and held off on revealing how the story ends soon. I would be happy to be wrong though.
I hope if they make another co-op game that relies heavily on the gampaign, they actually bother to develop the game system deep enough to be capable to represent progression between the delves in a way that can be actually felt.
Continuing the co-op, campaign system they've established here would be a good move, and I've really enjoyed how completing each expansion has introduced new perks and opened up new areas of Precipice. A little more tweaking on scaling and difficulty would be a good thing.
I think at a certain point, you’re looking at more of an RPG rather than a dedicated board game dungeon delver. I agree that there is potential in developing more in-depth legacy mechanics and progression.
I’d like to feel the consequences of an extended dungeon delve, limiting supplies in the form of available options on a given turn depending on how many sessions/levels/encounters the team has had. I.e. fewer attacks per turn due to lower ammo, limited heal potential, limited special use, etc.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring A campaign that spans for so long yet throughout it both heroes and enemies are almost entirely the same from start to finish is not a good campaign.
Blackstone Fortress has been far from perfect, but I've really enjoyed its structure, so I guess this is something we'll just have to disagree on. I do see what you're saying, but they made a conscious decision to make the game work in a different kind of way. It's always felt more like Advanced Space Crusade to me. Thanks for sharing your views. We'll have to see what the next Quest (if there is one) brings to the table.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring I'm not saying it's a bad game, it's a good game which tries to do two polar opposites at the same time, due to which it overperforms in one and underperforms in another. It tried to be simple and accessible, with least rules and fiddly stuff, which it executes perfect, but then it tried to have a long ass campaign, but due to very simplified ruleset it cannot offer for that campaign to be different enough to be worth it.
Aboslutely fantastic info here, thanks a lot mate. I am (very) late to the party and only discovering these series. After binge watching your WHQ videos I jumped in with the CUrsed city (battle ready painted - my credit card received a critical hit and needs at least 2 full turns to recover). I am also thinking about this one but the Escalation exp is nowehere to be bought. I already sold my kidney for KDM so this option is out. Is it really THAT good and critical to the game?
Thanks for watching the channel. Cursed City is great, and the recent news of its return and forthcoming expansions has made me very excited. Blackstone Fortress is wonderful too, and I think the play styles are different enough to mean you can find space on your shelf for both. Cursed City is very fast-paced, hack and slash action with really dangerous enemies that can cause massive damage, while Blackstone is more methodical, and feels more like a squad-level game with a small unit dropped behind enemy lines.
That being said, Blackstone is discontinued and the expansions are hard to find. Furthermore, apart from Dreaded Ambull and Traitor Command, every expansion requires content from Escalation (and Escalation and Ascension are the two big expansions that close out the main narrative). At this stage I really feel like it's only worth picking up Blackstone if you will be content with just the core game, as it's going to be so expensive to get anything else. You may be better off waiting for those Cursed City expansions instead and expanding on the game you already have.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Thanks for the additional info, very helpful. I checked in many places for this damned Escalation but in vain. Found one offer for some crazy money... Shame really. Oh well I suppose I will wait for the arrival of CC. Are you planning on more videos on CC? Some playthroughs perhaps?
As long as I can get the expansions I will cover Cursed City. I had held off doing too much coverage as the game wasn't available, but if that's going to change then so will my stance on covering it.
It's a great game. I have the base, all the current expansions and card sets as well as 3d printed scenery which is available from the Dragon Nest eBay store. It really adds to the game and is a definite must as long as you don't mind an extra 30 seconds of set up per expedition. I agree with Always Board, it would be expensive at the moment to get everything but if you are like me and remember fondly the Hero Quest or Space Crusade games, it may be worth it.
It's a fantastic game. Reminds me very much of Advanced Space Crusade. I never bothered with the 3D terrain elements. I'm sure there are lots of people who really get a kick out of them, and I'm glad you're enjoying using them, but I would recommend they're the last thing on people's shopping list if they're just getting into the game (not least because I suspect those terrain elements will still be available from sellers after the game is out of print, because they aren't official).
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring True. Just letting people know that the terrain is out there and how they have added greatly to my enjoyment of the game
Thanks for the share!!
Do You think that "nurgle" expansion is worth buying? This minis, i have them x4 i think...
It feels expensive when you already have the miniatures. It's a good expansion though. I like the missions in it, and while I don't think they did enough with the diseases, it is something else to think about. But... Yeah... It's a steep asking price when you don't want the miniatures. It's a tough one.
I think if you are trying to save money, this expansion would be at the top of the list to let pass by. The missions aren’t bad, but not worth $60 USD when we’ve been absolutely flooded with these minis since eighth edition came out.
A few months back, I discovered BSF and picked it up. I think it is a great game. I am concerned about GW ending this product. I did pickup Traitor Command yesterday (unfortunately I didn't get the minis). I will be looking for the two (maybe three BSF products) before the end of the year. But one question I have is that if one wanted to get the full and complete narrative of the game, do you have to buy all of the expansions? BTW, I counted 9 of them.
Mike Earle In total there are six boxed expansions (four released so far) and three card packs for nine total. There has also been an annual and some miniatures packs that are duplicates from the core set and Escalation expansion. The card packs are out of print. The main story comprises the core set, then Escalation and finally Ascension. The other expansions flesh out the setting and experience but circle the main narrative. I have done comprehensive videos on all expansions here on the channel if you want to check them out for more details.
I’m glad you gave me the heads-up about Escalation. After some internet surfing, I was able to pick it up for a not too bad price, before the prices start soaring.
Nice. Happy to help.
Amazing content as always. Thank you!
Thanks so much. That's very kind of you.
Do you think the small box expansion will be reprinted ? I want to get No respite ,dreaded amble, trader command ,expansion but eBay is 200$ each ... nm you said in your video 😿
Yes, unfortunately it's very unlikely you will see any reprints and the secondary market just keeps getting more expensive. I hope you manage to find what you want eventually.
Will the grand prize at the bottom of the box be a fat envelope with a push fit Slaan?
Crazy how quickly this goes out of print! I may just wait for the new version and wont miss anything than, but buying a Core game and after 1-2 month an expension may be not available...Cant buy everything at once...and dont want to miss out as well
I can understand that. The game will be two years old this November, and I think we'll have had the last expansion by then. After that, there's no telling how long things will stay in stock. It's certainly a concern if you're in the position where you would want everything, but I do think the core box, plus Escalation, plus Ascension (when it comes out) would still be a great experience. It's a difficult time to know what to do, really. Whatever you do, I hope you make the best choice for you. Thanks for watching.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring I like Shadows of Brimstone and still sells expansions that came out 5 years ago... I am sure more people have Warhammer and still...they could restock time to time as well. Maybe its an evil business logic :/
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Well I bought it anyway :D I found a very good painting guide and as I learn painting this was a big pluss.
I think we’re gonna get Warhammer Quest Fantasy after Blackstone Fortress...
I'd be okay with either, really. I loved Silver Tower and Shadows Over Hammerhal, so if they want to make another and give it some better support, I'll be quite happy. Maybe they could switch between AoS and 40K every two years?
I'm thinking it might be "Old World" themed. Even if it's not, I too, think it will be back to a Sigmar setting.
Well I bought the base game this morning. So bit late to the party.
The base game is really good. You should get a lot of enjoyment out of it.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring I found all the expansion :D I have a complete set now and took less than 3 months. Can't believe my luck.
@@vectorshaman338 That’s fantastic. Well done!
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring need to track down the card expansions and the annual. Let's see if lighting can strike twice. :D
I reckon the base game, escalation and ascension would be essential purchases if you want to get in on this now (I will definitely be doing that). Personally I would be splitting my purchases in 3 waves in order of release date: Core Game + Ambull + Traitor Command; Escalation + Deadly Alliance; Ascension + No Respite. If I had to guess, I would expect Ambull and Traitor Command to be dropped from production first.
Also depending on what else you play, you could squeeze additional value out of this: a couple of models from Escalation are considered pretty competitive in 40k (the tech priest comes to mind, and I think the psyker is pretty good too). Pretty much all of them can be used in Kill Team and I think there was a white dwarf article detailling how to play a game of Kill Team set within the Blackstone Fortress
Yes, Ambull and Traitor Command were the first two expansions. They will almost certainly sell out first. Ascension is a concern, as it's coming out on the tail end, and I'm predicting conservative production numbers. I definitely agree that core, Escalation and Ascension are the three most important items as they're the core narrative. Everything else is sort of happening around the main event.
All of the Blackstone miniatures have rules for 40K, and most have Kill Team rules, which is nice. I've covered all of the White Dwarf content Games Workshop have made for this game, which did indeed include rules for using the Blackstone tiles for Kill Team.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Also I think it would be silly to ignore this game just because support is ending soon. This isn't a competitive game like 40K where constant re-balancing and a large player base are needed, it's a quest based RPG type game that won't require constant new updates to remain playable. It's like how the original Space Hulk games are still perfectly good these days even though they've been dropped for years. Hell, even Space Crusade is still pretty good and that's ancient now! The only problem you might face over time is finding other people to play with, but this game has an AI system, so you can still treat it like a single player RPG video game if you wanted to (that's how I'll probably play it for the most part)
That's a very good point. It's usually pretty easy to find people who want to go on an adventure, and I mainly play solo anyway (in fact, of the three modern Quest games, this is the one that I recommend for solo play). I still love Space Crusade and Space Hulk, by the way.
If you’re a completionist, it’s probably best to pass by, and remind yourself not to wait so long next time. The card based expansions are already hard to find, and I expect the Blackstone boxed expansions to disappear fairly quickly as well, as they would have been produced in far smaller numbers. If you can still get the base game and perhaps a copy of Escalation, there’s a lot of play value there; a lot of the other expansions were just a single quest. I’m not as rosy on the future of Quest as some others. Silver Tower had a lot of buzz, but a fair number of people were disappointed by the simple mechanics and lack of replayability. Shadows I think was an ever bigger disappointment, and I seldom saw it being played, with recycled models and requiring a GM. Blackstone has clearly been more successful with the support it got, but was it successful enough to pursue over other things their game designers and mini developers could be doing? Only time will tell.
For people who aren't familiar with Games Workshop, the speed the company works at can be a bit unexpected. It's very easy to get taken by surprised when they release a card pack, and next month that pack just isn't available anymore (or whatever). For people who are coming from a board game world where you can still walk into a store and buy Catan it can be a culture shock, and that's not really their fault. It's particularly hard for people who didn't even know this game existed, or maybe didn't have the funds last year. I'm seeing a few people who are only just discovering the game, and now they are facing a bit of a steep hill.
I'm not personally a completionist (although I do own all Blackstone content except the extra miniatures packs), and I agree that the base game alone is worth owning. Adding Escalation is a good call, and they're certainly the products I would grab first if I was just starting out. I would then make sure I got Ascension too, just so I had the completion of the main story. Anything after that is a bonus.
I certainly have a more optimistic outlook than you on the Quest line. I've personally loved all three games, and I would be very surprised if we don't get a fourth iteration at some point. As you say, time will tell. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Always Board Never Boring It’s always good to have a discussion, even if we don’t agree 100% on stuff. There is definitely a divide between mainstream boardgaming and wargaming/minis. Wargaming has always been a lot more niche and tolerant of things like expansions, where that is largely unheard of boardgaming. You buy Catan or Ticket to Ride, and that’s it. Maybe someday there will be a new edition or variant, but in general boardgaming doesn’t usually have direct expansions. So it can be a culture shock to someone trying to move into the wargaming side.
At the same time, given the absolute glut of products trying to move into the market these days, I think smaller, and much more limited production runs are going to be the ‘new normal’. So many products are competing for attention every week, that stuff is frequently forgotten almost immediately upon release these days, and has almost no sales ‘legs’ after launch. That is one reason even established companies have been turning to crowdfunding as a preorder interest gauge. Then they can produce the exact number to meet demand, and maybe a few more depending on production thresholds, and that may be it. Doing second runs and so on may be too much of a risk to smaller companies if they get stuck with inventory these days. Welcome to gaming 2020.
Feel free to post any opinions you want; I appreciate anyone taking the time to watch the videos and share their thoughts, regardless of whether I agree.
Sometimes I wonder whether Kickstarter created the buy now, forget later approach to miniatures board games, or whether the platform developed in popularity because so many gamers already thought that way. I expect the truth is somewhere in the middle. Or it's just CMoN's fault! I don't touch Kickstarter at all these days, and hope we don't ever get in a situation where that's the normal route to market.
You're right that miniatures gaming in general is a tough nut to crack. Little companies like Oathsworn can have a nice business with boutique games and miniatures with stuff like Burrows and Badgers, but FFG found out first hand the problem they were up against when they launched the Runewars miniatures game, which never got any traction in the UK at all.
Always Board Never Boring I think Kickstarter both helped create the glut, and has provided a way for some to manage their companies. It has given an outlet for a lot of middle of the road to low quality junk to get onto the market easily, for sure. At the same time, it has provided an opportunity to companies like Steve Jackson Games to keep lower demand product like Ogre alive, as it just doesn’t have the level of support to be viable at retail these days. But on a crowdfunding platform they can continue to produce new Ogre product, as they can exactly forecast demand and backers assume the risk. Otherwise, Ogre may have gone to the great game graveyard in the sky.
Being good isn’t enough to succeed in 2020 with so many games out there. There’s just so much out there, that it is easy to get ignored and bypassed. If it’s any consolation, Runewars was dead on arrival here, too. The gaming glut has had an effect on retail as well. The three stores nearest to me have largely all become ‘GW & Star Wars’ shops. They are too afraid of and unwilling to take the risk on stocking anything else but top proven sellers. Their position is understandable, but it is not good for gaming as a whole.
@@mjames70 In fairness, I wasn't interested in Runewars anyway. I still wouldn't mind giving Legion a try at some point. I like Star Wars but I'm not a huge fan, so I'm interested to see if it's good enough to pull me in regardless. Elder Scrolls: Call to Arms is the new game system that I'm looking forward to diving into most at the moment, anyway.
Just bought the Anual, Nurgle and Traitor "expansions". The prices are a bad joke, like their "Contrast Paint" for around 6£. I still love their 40k and FB world. I also like the two player Nightvault series and will buy some of the teams. Since I have a big pile of shame, I have no problem stopping to buy from them. There is also a BIG second hand market.
Never preorder esp. digital products. There will be no shortage.
I don't agree about never preordering. Lots of their products sell out on the first day. I still remember really struggling to get Shadow War: Armageddon, which sold out within minutes, and only this year I had a terrible time trying to get ground assets for Aeronautica, which I foolishly assumed would be around for longer than they were. Digital products are a different matter entirely, and I must stress I don't mean preordering from Games Workshop. I have my favoured online store, and I preorder there, guarantee I get the products I want, and save 20-30 percent. If I know I want something, it makes sense to preorder.
It really depends on the products in question. Sometimes you can spot a pattern: any big boxes that represents a major discount compared to buying models separately (for example the starter sets for a lot of games) will usually have 1 production run and that's it. For those products, you would really need to pre-order if you want to beat the rush. I remember the Apocalypse sets from last year selling out within a couple of hours
@@101Phase That is true. Ancillary products also tend to vanish quickly. Unit cards and the like. Aeronautica hasn't been out all that long, and while it took months rather than days, it's already no longer possible to get the unit cards, the ground assets, or even the full size battle mat. I just always make sure I have money set aside and preorder whenever something comes along that I know I really want, as it avoids the potential risk. I wouldn't want to take any chances with the last expansion for Blackstone. I would be kicking myself if for, whatever reason, I wasn't able to get the expansion that finishes the main campaign story!
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring yeah, I'm with you on preordering things. Especially, if you use the same store for the majority of your purchases. Doubly so, for something like this, where you're definitely going to pick this stuff up.
If you're someone that believes that you must wait for reviews to come out before buying something, that's it's own thing. Same goes for digital though.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring I've always been confused by this: card based products are easier to manufacture so you'd think they would just keep those rolling. Hell, make them made to order, how difficult would that be? I feel like GW is just creating an artifical shortage most of the time.
Some sound advice there
Thanks. I tried to cover all the things I thought were considerations, although I'm sure I forgot a few, and I'm sure other people have different opinions! Also, I was only thinking from the perspective of getting into this game. Someone else has made a good point about getting use of the miniatures in 40K and Kill Team, which I omitted from the discussion in the video but which are also valid considerations when making a purchase.
I'm tempted to buy a second one. Maybe just the card bits.
Honestly thought squats would be coming back into this narrative, but maybe in the next quest 🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻
There are a couple of squats in Necromunda now, right? It wouldn't surprise me if one of those turned up in White Dwarf as a retinue character before the end. But a proper playable character would be fun.
Personally I think base game is enough, expansions have terrible cost vs content ratio.
I agree the base game is a great experience straight out of the box. The expansions are expensive, but Games Workshop in general is expensive. I mean, Games Workshop charge £25 for an ogroid, which is similar sort of size to an ambull, and the ambull expansion is £35, so the actual cards and new adventure are quite reasonable based on that comparison. The best value expansion is Escalation, even though it's the most expensive. Extra heroes, extra monsters, extra ships, extra resources, extra board tiles, an interesting new way to play, and an extension of the main narrative make it a winner. The content is also used for a lot of White Dwarf content and "unlocks" the subsequent expansions. The hardest pill to swallow for me was No Respite, because I had multiple sets of the miniatures already.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring well, the base box is actually not expensive considering how much is in it... And for a boardgamer no respite is actually one of a better ones, 9 minis for the same price as those with 1 or 2.
one things for certain, for better or worse, the future is push fit
For any future Quest products, that would make sense.
Ben Runciman It’s a bittersweet pill for the community as a whole I think.
Personally, I like the fact that I can put everything together very quickly and move into either painting or playing. A large barrier to entry for the hobby IMO is getting over build anxiety.
Kitbash potential is lower at the moment, however I think with the proper mould design, a certain level of customization could be added in the future in the form of push-fit heads, weapon alternatives for same fit and stance, equipment, etc...
I think at the end of the day you’re trading customization and artistry for accessibility and hobby momentum.