I use the MK2 HW77 long in .177 cal` with a stage 2 Sandwell Field Sports tune, - utterly superb hunting rifle, I`ve also owned the Eclipse and I was far from disappointed, great rifle also, which gets my vote ? The HW 77 by a country mile.
I've still got my 97 Pete and it's like a laser! The HW100's are an excellent PCP, I love the looks of them they look like the working pest controllers type of rifle. Nothing screams out about it it's just there to do a job.
I would almost swear that both the Weihrauch and the Webley's pellets were going through the targets sideways! I own an HW97KT and love it, I would love to have one of those Webley as well! I love underlevers!
The longer ranged accuracy test if I'm honest was more me not being used to the older lower powered scopes.. at 40 yards they needed something a bit more powerful and clearer on top. The Webley is a fantastic rifle mate I love the thing. The HW77 is a lovely rifle though make no mistake about that.. the Webley to me just seems a bit more unique and special though even if it does have its quirks. We need to get a BSA Superstar and have a rematch between all three of them like Scott Beaton suggested. That'd be very interesting!
The eclipse has an alloy cylinder which suffers from cold affecting accuracy and the steel pins elongate the pins holding the body plug in place. The foresight unit on the 77 is from a mk2, the early unit had the spring detent ball which was prone to ejecting itself and the alloy body of sight unit also cracked and split.
Hi Dan , thanks for the reply I must admit my eyes have been opened recently with the purchase of the SMK CP2 outfit ( forgot to put it on my collection list) I bought this as a truck gun . I've never used the setup in pistol mode I fitted the rifle barrel and gave the barrel a good clean out and fitted a Simmons Deerfield Scope. I'm dumb struck with its performance as I initially zeroed I it at 25m all inside a 5p so I re zeroed it at 30m and I'm dispatching squirrels ( cleanly) with head and heart shots using the JSB exact. It looks a bit over scoped BUT there is ample room on the tube to fit NVUK kit and BSA sub zero laser .along with 2 mags and single shot tray absolute bargain . Very highly recommend that kit to anybody . So after that essay, I'm quite like the look of 2 or 3 of the rifles you have listed , the xs18 (GRT ) or the xs20 deluxe with mod/ barrel weight, what are your thoughts . Where are based though Dan , I'm in Bath . Regards Alan
Hi Alan, I knew you'd be happy once I read that you'd purchased the CP2 they're an incredibly good little carbine for the money. The only fiddly thing with them is the magazine but after a few reloads it becomes second nature loading them. You've picked two excellent break barrels Alan to the point where it's difficult to choose one over the other! If you're after a light weight "walked up" style rifle then I'd recommend the little XS19GR, they're an exceptionally capable little rifle and being a gas ram there's no twang and the lock time is ridiculously fast. One of my previous customers is a forest ranger and he swears by his little XS19GR, his has a red dot sight and he's blasting squirrels left right and center! The XS20 is a heavier rifle on the other hand and comes a bit more kitted out, you've got the barrel weight that helps with cocking and controlling muzzle flip and an automatic safety but the trigger is more or less the same as the XS19GR.. so not bad but not the best. If you're shooting from a stationary position I might recommend the XS20.. but.. If I may be so bold may I recommend the SMK 208 series? They've got a genuinely very good trigger (they're usually light out of the box) and they have a very soft recoil. The last 208 I put through the chrono was the new 208SG and that only had a max spread of 7fps over 10 shots.. that's better than nearly everything else I've put through that chrono! They're genuinely very easy to shoot well and they come in a standard sporter stock, skeletal stock, synthetic or my personal favourite the thumbhole version. I personally would recommend the 208 over the other two. Sorry Alan if I've made your decision even harder mate! I'm currently based in Essex mate not far from Chelmsford, as you can tell I've only been here for a few years as my skin hasn't turned orange.
Good stuff man , keep up these absolutely fantastic reviews . I’m a newbie to ur channel an I personally think ur channel is one of the best!! Greetings Dan from Portsmouth England 🏴.
Hello Dan, i have owned a 97k for quite some time having bought it new. Its a rifle that has a very strong reputation. However, mine has never really impressed me with regard to its grouping. I have recently impulse bought a like new mk2 Eclipse and have been totally shocked how much more accurate it is than the 97k! In that respect i believe your test was unfair because a tuned hw77 should be much better than standard rifle and although the Eclipse had a none standard spring that does not equal the balance of a tuned rifle. Therefore, i believe if the hw77 was standard, the Eclipse would have monstered it in every way.
Hey Ferrariman! Yeah I'll be the first to confess that the review was a bit tilted in the HW's favour. That being said it's so close either way that I'm genuinely thinking about stripping the Eclipse for the final battle (can't leave it 1:1 can we?). I'm glad you're loving the Eclipse they're such an underrated rifle. Beautiful too! You can immediately feel the quick locktime on the Eclipse can't you? Squeeze that trigger and she's on her way. Thanks Ferrariman!
I've owned a Webley Eclipse MK2 Carbine in .22 since new. It's in immaculate condition and has had minimal use. I have more time to use it these days along with all my other rifles and pistols.
Hi Jon! I won't be arguing with that mate, the Eclipse is still going today but they've made it a pistol... I almost refuse to call it an Eclipse! Thanks Jon.
That's an excellent question, the answer is because back in the 80's it was the Weihrauch that took the airgun world by storm. Both the Eclipse and BSA's Superstar were released years after the HW77 and neither one of them really outshone the Weihrauch which had all of the performance of the two new contenders and was also easier to get along with (definitely so compared to the Eclipse), the reason it still sells well is because the HW77 has a very well proven design and is still one of the best underlevers on the market today with a brilliant pedigree. I'd even argue that the HW77 is better balanced than the later HW97.. and that hurts to say as someone who owns a HW97! I never stated that the Eclipse was a better rifle than the HW77 in fact the score at the end was a tie. Even during the accuracy test despite the fact that the Eclipse shot better on that day I still said that the HW77 is easily just as accurate with a shooter that is used to it. The reason why I personally prefer the Eclipse is because I find that the trigger feels more responsive when it has been set light compared to the Rekord trigger and I actually preferred the snappier shot cycle on the Eclipse compared to the HW77's lazier shot cycle (although it did also recoil less!). The main reason I prefer the Eclipse though is because it's a bit of a forgotten underdog.. it never had the reputation of the HW77 and I do understand why, but the Eclipse is still every bit as accurate and in my opinion it's a classier looking rifle to boot.
@@bigdansairguns83 There was another reason the Eclipse was left behind, I'm sure there was another video where it was said there was a big delay between the press getting the first guns to test and the public being able to buy one, and the airgun market is also a fashion led one. I remember Rod Lynton testing one in Airgun World and getting some really tight groups with the carbine version, but only with some pellets (too long ago to remember which though), which brings me to another point - always try a few different pellets to find the ones your rifle likes, I'd be very surprised if a German barrel liked the same pellets as an English one, back then Webley and BSA were still using 5.6mm bores, and the rest of the world 5.5mm in .22" rifles. Superdomes were soft enough to be a compromise and work in both well enough, but not excel in either.
@@bobthebarsteward Excellent comment Rob thanks for that! I did know about the different bore sizes as it's one of the reasons why the Eley Wasp was so fondly thought of back in the day due to it being 5.6 compared to 5.5 and genuinely being a well made pellet, funnily enough the uncle's 77 (what I'm shooting here) actually loved the larger Wasps back in the day according to him. Sadly the current Wasps are a shadow of their former selves by what I've researched though.. I used the Superdomes as I knew that both rifles liked them but the main problem occurred at 40 yards where neither scopes gave me a clear sight picture and with only 4x zoom the crosshairs were blocking off a fair chunk of the target. I'll say this though, that Fontaine scope that was fitted to the HW77 although only a 4x32 was a really lovely little scope yet I'd never heard of Fontaine prior to handling the HW77.
I have shot weirauchs since I was a kid and have found them to be rock solid and accurate. Ive never crushed a pellet putting a pellet in the breach of a 77 or 97. Tap loaders, however it does happen.
I knew that 77 wasnt standard with that first shot before you mentioned the tune 😁 makes that satisfying thud you get from a properly sorted kit! Good stuff, i prefer hw77 to most the tosh coming out these days i treated myself to a hw77k laminate a while back in .22.
Hi Dan, my collection consists of .. HW100 in .20 cal..AA U.Sporter.in .177 .. 2x FX VERMINATOR's in both .177&.22 ..Diana 430 Stutzen .22 ( Sandwell Fieldsports tuned) the other 2 Diana's as previously mentioned. BSA Ultra Mmc in .22 Falcon Lighthunter .22 AND my very 1st air rifle BSA Cadet Major .177 as you can see I'm a bit of an airgun freak . I also have a rimfires CZ455 in .22Lr TH . a CZ 425 in .17 HMR ( a bit special that one as its glass bedded/ tuned trigger and a tapered match grade barrel by Lother Walther) a RUGER 10/22 that's got all the rimfire Magic bells and whistles with custom stock .. oh and a Browning 525 OV 20g . I'm a bit of a basket case and there's no hope for me where nice rifles are concerned . Regards Alan
You have more rifles than I have in stock Alan! You aren't planning on invading France any time soon are you? That's a wonderful collection though Alan, the uncle also loves his CZ but his is the 452. They're a beautifully accurate little rifle but I can understand why you had the trigger tuned as his .22 trigger is pretty woeful, the .17HMR isn't too bad though. I would hate to be the burglar that breaks into your house Alan.
This is interesting. In the late 70s and early 80s there was the Original 45 a brilliant air rifle a big rifle very accurate . I also had an HW 35 At the same time there was the Webley Vulcan it had a single stage trigger and could suffer from play in the barrel. The strange thing is that even though I loved my 45 and the HW 35 I had a soft spot for the Webley it just felt right in my hands and gave good accuracy at air rifle distances. Unfortunately my Webley Vulcan was stolen 😢. The best rifle is what suits you and your comfortable with and it's intended use. Oh I also had a Sharp Innova,but that's another story 😂😂😂😂
Would be nice if you could get hold of an old mid 1970's .22 BSA Mercury to review - It was my first ever rifle & a superbly accurate weapon IMO. A break action springer & more power than the Meteor with the AIRSPORTER size Cylinder.
Hi Dan , sounds as though you and I are from similar backgrounds ( farming) so thus we suffer from from farmers hands ( bloody big fingers) so just about any spring loaded mag is fiddly. But if you can master the FX system as I have on my VERMINATOR's just about anything else is second nature. Thing with the SMK unit is they seem sloppy but they really aren't I've not had a single problem with mine ,they index perfectly and I use JSB Exact with absolutely no problems can't vouch for any other pellet as I haven't tried them and they are as cheap as chips to replace . As I said if anyone is looking for a very good budget vermin control rifle / pistol combo for rabbits / squirrels or any avian quarry out to 30/35m ( rifle mode) the cp2 will do the job . Mines pumping out between 8/9 psi worth the Crossman capsule with approx 40+ full power shots. I don't know how / if temermental it will be as the weather conditions change but we'll see. I'll take look as those 208 rifles on your page and touch base early next week . Regards Alan
I owned a Webley Eclips many years ago. I have very big problems that the scoope moved , and i try too solve it in many ways, but i failed, and sold it. The scoop rest in very good base, made to 30.06 cal.
Great review Dan, I've always loved the eclipse ever since it came out.One thing i don't think you mentioned is the fact that the 77has a steel compression tube and the Webley has one made from aircraft grade aluminium another feather in the Webley,s cap.love springers man keep em coming atb Dave
Hi Dave! Thanks for the feedback mate it means a lot! Yes mate I did originally plan to mention the differences there but it must've slipped my mind during filming. I know it was done to lessen the weight of the rifle and it could also be another reason why the shot cycle of the Webley seems to have a more piercing "twang" compared to the HW77. Thanks Dave!
I have an Eclipse. It's nice. My most expensive rifle, including my deer rifle. Looking at adding a scope. Scope mount is shown to be 14 mm. All I can find are 11 mm mounts.
Nice one again Dan , but i think you should have had a third under lever the BSA Superstar i loved mine, i did have an Eclipse and as for the HW77 i never liked them, HW80 now that was a gun in it's day a bit heavy but bloody good, but the 77 i just never seen what every one was going on about it, In fact my stepson has one and it is minted he never used it much, i think he still has the tin of pellets that he got at the same time, and it's still full. looking forward to next video ;)
Haha thanks Scott. Well I'll tell you what, if I can get my hands on a Superstar I'll do the review but towards the end put it against the Eclipse and the HW77. I have yet to shoot a HW80 but I've heard they're excellent. How comes you didn't like the HW77 Scott? I may have an erm... very soft bias towards the Eclipse but the HW77 is definitely well up there when it comes to my favourite underlever rifles. I'd put it above the TX200 personally. Please don't kill me Air Arms fans.
I had the TX200 as well when they cam out at first, and yet again i was not overly impressed, but what it all came down to with the HW77 and the TX200 was the loading i just did not trust it, not that i have seen or even heard of any one having a mishap with them i just didn't like putting my fingers in front of that powerful spring no no no F*&% that lol
Yes mate that's understandable, I tell everyone that buys an underlever that even if it has the best anti-beartrap system in the world you should definitely still hold that lever down. That being said though.. I can definitely still see why the sliding breech design outclassed the taploading system. The Webley feels lovely to load and I can actually load it fairly quickly now but I can't deny that the HW77 just feels that little bit more refined where loading is concerned. I just hope that the people that see this video give the Eclipse a try. It really is a lovely thing to shoot.
The HW77 didn't like those pellets simple as that Having owned both the 77 is a better gun. I'm not bias in anyway and don't care one way or the other what people say about them. Us in the know will agree
Hi Russel! The HW77 is a brilliant rifle but for me personally I'm an Eclipse man. It's that little bit more unique and I find has more character than the HW77. Down range in this test it also proved superior. ...That said...I did a second video where through gritted teeth I'll admit that the HW77 won. Is what it is. Saying all of this however I actually find that the best feeling underlever out of all of them (possibly even including my Webley and if you can get a good one) is the HW57 we reviewed, as a hunting rifle it spanks the HW77 and the Eclipse but only as long as you can get one that works properly.
I've got the Eclipse MKII in .22 and it's a lovely gun. Sadly, in my younger years, I made the terrible mistake of putting it away in a foam-lined hard case that'd been left open in a barn whilst my friends and I had gone off down the fields, and which had become damp. I stupidly forgot to take the gun out of the case when I got home. The thing literally rusted overnight, I couldn't believe it had happened so fast. The cylinder is ok, that looks like it did the day I first got it (for my 18th birthday I believe) because it's made of an alloy, but the barrel and the cocking lever are both rusty. I keep toying with the idea of taking it to a gunsmith to get it re-blued or even maybe doing it myself but I wouldn't want to mess it up, it has sentimental value. It's not too badly pitted so hopefully they could get it back to a decent finish without losing too much metal. Makes me feel a bit sad even now. Anyhow, I've never had a Weirauch HW77 but I do really like the look of those, in fact all the Weirauch underlevers.
I would definitely have it repaired... good time to go over the internals too with new seals and lube.... especially if you have an professional airgunsmiths in your area... are you in the UK ?
@@BarnSt0rmer It could be a fun project gun... Phil Bulmer did an article in Airgun World magazine, March 2003 in his "Bulmer Does a Strip" section... my favorite part of the whole magazine, as long as it was about a spring-piston airgun ! You can always give it a try removing the rust... just remove the action from the stock and go over it with super fine 0000 steel wool and WD40... I've used cold bluing like Brownell's Oxpho Blue with good success... there's probably similar product in your area... I use Ballistol to wipe down my guns... great for metal, wood, rubber... I love the stuff !
Hi Dan, it's me again. I found me a Tracker in .177 now a few months ago. Had it shot in with a Barnett scope today and gave it a little wipe with Ballistol oil afterwards and wanted to decock it at the end. Unfortunately it jammed. I cant move the sidelever outwards now, the trigger is in the backward Position, the safety cannot be engaged and the anty-beartrap seems to have it's grip on the piston. I took the stock off but found no way to get it to work again. Do you have any tipps or tricks for me to bring it back from this cocked jam? Best wishes Martin
Hi Martin! Damn that sounds like a bugger, unfortunately I haven't stripped a Tracker yet so I wouldn't quite know how to de-cock it. A buddy of mine is into classic air rifles I'll ask him and see if he has any input. Thanks Martin and I'll see what I can do.
@@bigdansairguns83 Hi Dan, for a better start into the weekend I tried to solve the problem again now and succeeded this time: The problem was the latch, that holds the cocking lever. It didn't release. So no jam inside, in spite of the blocked trigger and safety. After the lever was free I could bring it in the rear position and reset the trigger and got the safety operable again. My conclusion is that the Webley side lever rifles can not be decocked without firing. I gave it some more lube for the lever latch and mainspring and shot it to decock. Now my little beauty is back in it's bag and takes a rest. And I can enjoy my weekend.👍🍀 Greetings to your buddy and have a nice weekend, pal! Best wishes and thank you again for your support! Martin
@@martinskovby8856 Hi Martin. I'm glad to hear you got it sorted mate they're a lovely rifle when they're running right. Cheers Martin and all the best!
I have 2 air rifles. A Weihrauch hw97 .22 and a Benjamin Sheridan blue streak .20 from the early 80's with a Williams peep sight. I love them both. Taken so many tree rats out with them. :)
I don't believe it is a zephur to be honest, should have a venom type end on it. The piston had a ptfe type coating on it too. It also had a theoben piston seal that was supposed to direct the air to the transfer port. Just my humble opinion.
Hey Steve. The HW77 is a "Zephyr tuned" rifle but not an off the shelf "Zephyr" like you have pointed out. Back in the day you could take the HW77 to the Airgun Centre here in Rayleigh and have the internals tuned to Zephyr spec while the externals stayed the same. He's actually still got the original paperwork somewhere that was given after it was sorted. It's a beautiful rifle to shoot and you can see how little recoil there is on the handling section. Still prefer the Webley though. 😉
Hi Dan, yes I agree. I don't think the new Hw springers are as good as the older rifles ( built by accountants now unfortunately ) . I have a collection of air rifles I won't bore you with BUT I've just managed to buy 2 older Diana's , a 54 mid 80's vintage and a 48 ( Pro Black)mid 2000 . Both sleepers ( seen hardly any work, 1000 pellets between them) pellet.group inside a 2 p at 37m from both of them RWS wad cutters ( H points) that'll do for me . Regards Alan
By all means Alan feel free to bore me mate as you can tell I love my airguns, it even made me become an RFD! I agree regarding the newer HW's, my 97 which I plan on reviewing very soon has been cared for all its life and yet the bluing has faded from the top of the action and the underlever section.. it isn't corrosion but the bluing is just fading away. Seriously disappointed.
Dan since you are British...you are coloured in this comparison...HW77K is honestly the better gun. HW77K must be the best underlever airrifle of all times. Not even the AirArms can compare to the HW...since all it has done is to copied the HW action (sliding breech). When HW77K came it revolutionized the airgun world.
Hi Tom! I did have a bit of a laugh on the earlier section I know how great the HW77 is and I'd never say it was a bad rifle. In this test however the Webley genuinely beat the HW and that rifle itself is renowned for its accuracy. In regards to the sliding breech design Wiehrauch never invented it neither, according to accounts online (whether true or not) the original design belonged to a Chinese rifle known as the "lion" underlever air rifle. You can find pictures online with the sliding breech design clearly on show. That said we did do a second face off video and you might find that one more agreeable. 😉
Thx Dan...Looking at the second meet of the Guns and the BSA...I am happy...You gave accuracy to HW77K...even if it was German😂...must have felt that in the heart😅
It's only a momentary set back Karlos we'll get them next time I'm sure. Technically the Jerries are sort of cheating as the 77 was Zephyr tuned back in the day so I say that means we're allowed to polish the internals of the Eclipse.. I shan't take this sitting down Karlos, it's our boy against theirs and it needs all the help it can get!
Interesting comparison... I have a .177 Webley Eclipse (Beeman import) that I bought in 1993... I believe it's a Mk1, the difference being the underlever release... mine does not have the front button, but a double slide side release. I don't think the Eclipse is technically a "tap loader"... my understanding of a "tap loader" is that there is a mechanism that pops up and the pellet is inserted into it, then pressed back down into place... they can have air leakage issues from what I understand, but I have never had one to have any experience with it. The receiver on the Eclipse is aluminum that makes it lighter than say the HW77, or any big air rifle with a steel receiver... you have to be careful when working on them or mounting a scope so as not to damage the scope grooves or screw threads... I have not had mine a part yet, but hope to do a re-lube on it at some point. I think it is a good practice to NOT press the loading hatch back down, letting the little metal catch rub the receiver, but instead hold the lever so the catch remains inside the loading hatch until it is firmly closed... this will reduce any wear on the latch and the receiver. I also have an HW77K (karbine/carbine--short barrel) in .20 (5mm) that I purchased used from an estate sale about 20 years ago... I think it is more accurate than the Eclipse, and the Rekord is a better trigger. I love both air rifles for what they both are, and glad to have them in my collection... I also have a .177 TX200, and it's a tack driver too, more for field target use with a 6-24x scope... not as easy to carry around like my Eclipse or the HW77K... the Eclipse is probably the easiest of the three to carry and hunt with. Your .22 HW77 appears to have a short karbine/carbine barrel too... is it a HW77K ?
What a fantastic comment thanks airmojo. Yes that was a HW77K that had been Zephyr tuned. Like I said in the video it was a slightly unfair comparison as I was more used to shooting the Webley than the HW77 and as stated regarding accuracy in neutral hands they'd both be as accurate as each other in my opinion. I know I'm the only one of the planet to do this but I do disagree on the trigger however, don't get me wrong the Rekord unit is easily one of the best trigger units around but it's the way that the trigger breaks is why I prefer the Eclipse. As someone who prefers a lighter trigger I love the way that the Eclipse unit actually seems to almost lighten up before it breaks. It's a purely subjective thing and I can be a bit of a nutcase when it comes to how I like my triggers but I genuinely prefer the Eclipse in this regard. As Scott has mentioned I need to get a BSA Superstar and re-do the face off again. Maybe throw in a Relum Tornado for a bit of a laugh! Thanks mate!
@@bigdansairguns83 To be honest, I don't recall trying to adjust the trigger on my Eclipse... gonna have to try that just to see, but it really is hard to beat a Rekord trigger... I very seldom mess with triggers unless they are way too heavy, and I do like a little 1st stage creep so I know when the gun will actually shoot. I've never had a BSA come my way or I would probably own one. I do have an underlever Sterling Armaments HR81 in .22... a whole other animal of an air rifle... built like a tank and has a bolt action insert the pellet in the breech.
@@airmojo I won't lie mate I've never even heard of a Sterling Armaments HR81 but I'm sure you can guess what my next Google search will be haha. It sounds like a lovely bit of kit though! Quick edit I've just looked one up and what an odd design for a rifle. How does it shoot mate?
Tom Gaylord has a four part article on the Sterling HR81, later made by Benjamin Sheridan as well, on his Pyramyd Air blog... here is part-1... www.pyramydair.com/blog/2011/02/sterling-hr-81-177-underlever-air-rifle-part-1/
My 77 doesn’t shoot well on Superdome pellets so this makes the 77 accuracy look bad. Safety has always been my big bear with the 77 more so in the field.
Hi Crusader, This particular 77 loves Superdomes and Remington/HN Baracudas and before I got used to lighter triggers I could achieve very similar groups like what the Eclipse put out at 25 yards like I mentioned in the video. The HW77 is an amazingly accurate rifle but with this test it just came down to the Eclipse's trigger that better suited my tastes and my lack of experience with using a 4x zoom scope at 40 yards. That's why I rated both rifles the same when it came to accuracy because with someone who was used to that particular 77's trigger they would have similar/possibly greater groups than what the Webley put out. Thanks for watching mate and as Scott has mentioned below the HW77 might be able to regain ground with my planned Eclipse vs HW77 vs Superstar review where I'll spend more time to adjust myself to the HW77.
I had a .22 Zephyr back in the 80s with the standard stock like your uncles.Mine was longer though as the one you have there is the K carbine version. As to the 77 being like a Venom tune..Its not..The venom guns had glided pistons with plastic inserts whereas the Zephyrs piston & spring were coated with a green ptfe & also had a Theoben piston seal..Take the stock off that 77 & take a look.You will see what Im talking about...As for the trigger being heavy you can simply wind out the screw a little at a time until its perfect for your taste,,Be careful though as you can make it so light it will fire at the lightest touch..Accuracy wise they are both great but you can tell the Eclipse is your own gun & therefore you are bound to shoot a little better with it :) If I tested both I bet Id do better with the Weihrauch.lol I enjoyed the review anyway & it was nice to see an Eclipse again....Didnt they also have an alloy action to save weight? Im sure they did.
They did and not many people liked the alloy piston either haha, it definitely gives the Eclipse a higher pitched sounding action when that trigger is pulled. Mr Foulkes.. are you insinuating that I had some bias in this video review?? It's not my fault that the Webley is a fine piece of British engineering and the Weihrauch is a hunk of German junk. Just kidding of course haha, you're absolutely right mate as I said myself the only reason the Webley won the accuracy tests was because I'd simply handled it more, the HW77's are immensely accurate and I'd even argue that it'd be easier to shoot than the Eclipse straight out of the box as the shot cycle is a bit lazier, I do personally prefer the Webley's snappier action myself though. Regarding the triggers you're right again regarding the Rekord unit and how they can be adjusted, I personally own a HW97 and the trigger is wonderful but that being said I really do like the feel of the Webley trigger.. it's hard to explain but compared to the Rekord unit which gets slightly stiffer when the second stage sets in the Webley actually lightens up a bit which once you adjust to it gives you a lovely smooth pull. Both are excellent rifles Derek mate but I just cant help but respect the HW77 but love the Webley.
Hey Karlos, They are heavy brutes but they're also well balanced which helps to mitigate the weight a bit in my opinion. Regarding balance they're much better than the 97 which feels even heavier!
Dan a true reflection of a gun`s capabilities would be to use a pellet that suits that individual gun best. Put JSB Exact Express through a 77 and you`ll be amazed with the accuracy. Same JSB pellets might well disagree with the Eclipse. " Get my drift " ? atb Mark.
Hi Mark, Thanks for the comment, I'm actually preparing the HW77 for a rematch and I've run several tins of pellets through the rifle including JSB's and AA and although they were okay they weren't amazing. So far the top pellets are the RWS Superdomes and the Rifle Premium domes which I was getting sub 5p groups with all day today. I tell you what I did find that was pretty odd though.. for a bit of fun I decided to put some budget pellets through both rifles and see the results and to be fair it went pretty much as to be expected... until I put some SMK Victory Shock pellets through the Eclipse. I've got to be honest mate they aren't far behind the Superdomes and you can see in this video at 25 yards just how good they are in the Webley. To say I was surprised would be an understatement. ......they were absolute crap in the HW77 though...
Hello. at 9:39 you put pellet in to the barrel !??? I thought you put a pellet in to the top load thing you flip up. ( pellet nose down ) What´s the point about this mechanism ???
No, the pellet goes into the barrel breech... the loading hatch is basically an extension of the transfer port... you would not want the pellet to go through the loading hatch and then the barrel... the pellet would not fit anyways... there is a barrel breech seal, and a seal on the loading hatch end near the transfer port. The loading hatch just makes it fairly easy to load a pellet without fear of chopping off a finger like on the HW77... always hold the underlever on any air rifle while loading a pellet... even on the Eclipse... you could bend or crack something on the rifle.
@@airmojo Yep. I don't like the idea of poking my fingers into a sliding breech, so I always appreciated the flip-up loading hatch on my Eclipse MKII. I also have a Diana Model 75 sidelever target rifle which is spring powered but recoilless (it has 2 pistons which move in opposite directions to cancel each other out) and that gun has a slide-open breach, and it's always at the back of my mind that one day the safety mechanism's going to give up the ghost whilst I'm loading it.
@@BarnSt0rmer The Diana Model 75 sounds like works similar to my FWB300SU... it also uses a side lever to cock that has a safety lock when cocked... I too am a little leery of sticking my fingers into the breach while inserting a pellet... now if the lever was on the left side you could probably hold it with your left hand while loading with your right... I've always been told NOT to trust any safety. I remember a fellow airgunner recommending the same setup for Whiscombe air rifles, and it would also help prevent dry-firing the rifle (while shooting right-handed) so you can see the side lever obviously open... there is am optimal way of cocking and loading a Whiscombe which is opening the breech before cocking the rifle (which takes 2 or 3 strokes depending on the model) allowing air to be drawn into the transfer port, then insert the pellet in the breech, then close the side lever... the side lever can be opened and closed at any time... it does not lock... the safety is set when you complete the final cocking stroke.
@@airmojo I believe the FWB300SU uses a sledge system, where the whole lot can slide back and forth a short distance within the stock to absorb some of the recoil. I've shot targets with one of those, they're very nice. The Dianas (some of them anyway) use the "GISS system" with 2 pistons inside the cylinder which move in opposite directions. One piston moves forwards to compress air to fire the pellet, like in pretty much any springer, and a 2nd piston moves backwards at the same time with equal force to cancel out the recoil (but does not compress any air). It works pretty well but it's a fairly complicated system with lots of moving parts and there are only a few places (as I understand it) who can reliably service them. So I'm hoping mine doesn't break down. It's as old as I am and still going strong (fingers crossed). I've only had it for a couple of years.
@@BarnSt0rmer Yes, the FWB300's has a sliding action... only one piston. I do have a HyScore 810m (rebranded Diana Model 60) recoiless match air rifle that I got from a pawnshop when I was working out of town... it was stored away in their back room for who knows how long... it was made in 1971... It's a break-barrel and it has the GISS system... I did not even attempt to cock or fire it... I sent it off to a guy I know who tunes and fixes a lot of various air rifles. He brought it back to life, and it's one of my most favorite air rifles !
Hi, I wouldn't want to be a burglar either , you should see my wife 👹. We've been married 40 years and I'm still afraid of her 🤓. Dan I've read with interest your review on the Remington Pest Controller and Express also the Milbro Target Master , are these American or Chinese / eastern European made?. I'm a semi retired pest controller and looking for a reliable spring or Gas ram powered rifle to keep in my Defender as a back up truck rifle that won't break the bank or fall to pieces after 2 tins of pellets , I'd appreciate your advise / opinion ( what would you have)??. I'm quite a solid 15 stone so weight and sixe aren't really an issue .Regards Alan
Hahaha I'm sure she can't be that bad. All three of those rifles are made in China and the Remington Pest Controller is basically an XS19 in a new stock.. which isn't a bad thing as the SMK XS19 is a brilliantly consistent little rifle. Out of those three Alan it's between the two Remingtons. The Express has a nicer stock and a better trigger in my opinion but the Pest Controller feels a little bit more comfortable to shoulder and I like the simple toggle safety. You can't really lose with either one.
The tx 200 and the diana 48 and diana 52 air king and 52 and the hw 80 and the air arms sr and the fwb300 and 300s and pro sport were all around in the late 80s early 90s even theobens were about back then and some of the rifles i mentioned would absolutely destroy the rifles your reviewing here dont get me wrong the eclipse and 77 are ver nice rifles tho
Hi mate, destroy my Eclipse....? That's fighting talk right there. The HW77 only beat it this time because it got lucky.. Just kidding mate I'll keep my eyes open for them. You might laugh but the rifle I really want to try against these two for the final is a Relum Tornado.. just for fun.
Iv been shooting for 40 years shotguns 22 rimfire pcp's most springers , the 77 in the day didnt collect more trophy's than any other springer on the market by sheer chance , and now the 97k continues that trend with cp lights in 177 getting sub 3" groups at 110m // long range spring rifle vlog // video on youtube .annual long range spring gun comp in Stockholm
I've not spent much time with the TX I will confess but neither of these guns are slouches. The HW in particular has barely zero recoil no doubt due to the modifications that were made back in the day and the Webley is also on point. Out of the box the AA is the best of all of the modern underlevers or so I've heard (it's by far the prettiest) but these two old girls will spank most springers... don't listen to those that doubt my dear old Eclipse they're all liars haha. Thanks Crazy! I need to get a TX tested it's blasphemy that I haven't.
I would never buy that Webley. A springer is beautiful because of it's simplicity. That is not. I just put a hawk scope on my Remington express (and adjusted it back on the rail) and it is simple, accurate and powerful.
Hey gruffy, what is it that you don't like about the Eclipse then? Is it the loading port? I think the Eclipse is beautiful but it's a case of each to their own I guess. The Remington Express is a lovely rifle though and they punch well above their weight! Thanks Gruffy.
I find that opening and closing the loading port on the Webley takes a split second once you're used to doing it. It just happens without me even thinking about it.
I do my best Jim. It's not my fault that the HW77 is inferior to the gorgeous finely tuned Webley Eclipse. It's because of this that the HW77 has been lost to time and Eclipses are still sold to this very day. Maybe.
Great video , really enjoyed it.
I sold my pcps 2 years ago and since bought a hw77 forest laminate 22 carbine + mod , it rocks my world.
I use the MK2 HW77 long in .177 cal` with a stage 2 Sandwell Field Sports tune, - utterly superb hunting rifle, I`ve also owned the Eclipse and I was far from disappointed, great rifle also, which gets my vote ? The HW 77 by a country mile.
Very interesting comparison.
Thanks for posting.
Great video I have owned both and only sold them to move up to a hw97..now on to the superb hw100s....
I've still got my 97 Pete and it's like a laser! The HW100's are an excellent PCP, I love the looks of them they look like the working pest controllers type of rifle. Nothing screams out about it it's just there to do a job.
I have Werauch HW77 full. Very precise!! From 40 meter I shoot in 1 centimeter
I would almost swear that both the Weihrauch and the Webley's pellets were going through the targets sideways! I own an HW97KT and love it, I would love to have one of those Webley as well! I love underlevers!
The longer ranged accuracy test if I'm honest was more me not being used to the older lower powered scopes.. at 40 yards they needed something a bit more powerful and clearer on top.
The Webley is a fantastic rifle mate I love the thing. The HW77 is a lovely rifle though make no mistake about that.. the Webley to me just seems a bit more unique and special though even if it does have its quirks.
We need to get a BSA Superstar and have a rematch between all three of them like Scott Beaton suggested. That'd be very interesting!
I only meant to watch the one review. ....3 hours later,...!!! Great stuff Dan, really enjoyable!
Thanks Martyn!
A clear win for Webley on this test. At the end of the day, you shoot best with what you are comfortable with. 😊
The eclipse has an alloy cylinder which suffers from cold affecting accuracy and the steel pins elongate the pins holding the body plug in place.
The foresight unit on the 77 is from a mk2, the early unit had the spring detent ball which was prone to ejecting itself and the alloy body of sight unit also cracked and split.
Hi Dan , thanks for the reply I must admit my eyes have been opened recently with the purchase of the SMK CP2 outfit ( forgot to put it on my collection list) I bought this as a truck gun . I've never used the setup in pistol mode I fitted the rifle barrel and gave the barrel a good clean out and fitted a Simmons Deerfield Scope. I'm dumb struck with its performance as I initially zeroed I it at 25m all inside a 5p so I re zeroed it at 30m and I'm dispatching squirrels ( cleanly) with head and heart shots using the JSB exact. It looks a bit over scoped BUT there is ample room on the tube to fit NVUK kit and BSA sub zero laser .along with 2 mags and single shot tray absolute bargain . Very highly recommend that kit to anybody . So after that essay, I'm quite like the look of 2 or 3 of the rifles you have listed , the xs18 (GRT ) or the xs20 deluxe with mod/ barrel weight, what are your thoughts . Where are based though Dan , I'm in Bath . Regards Alan
Hi Alan, I knew you'd be happy once I read that you'd purchased the CP2 they're an incredibly good little carbine for the money. The only fiddly thing with them is the magazine but after a few reloads it becomes second nature loading them.
You've picked two excellent break barrels Alan to the point where it's difficult to choose one over the other! If you're after a light weight "walked up" style rifle then I'd recommend the little XS19GR, they're an exceptionally capable little rifle and being a gas ram there's no twang and the lock time is ridiculously fast. One of my previous customers is a forest ranger and he swears by his little XS19GR, his has a red dot sight and he's blasting squirrels left right and center!
The XS20 is a heavier rifle on the other hand and comes a bit more kitted out, you've got the barrel weight that helps with cocking and controlling muzzle flip and an automatic safety but the trigger is more or less the same as the XS19GR.. so not bad but not the best. If you're shooting from a stationary position I might recommend the XS20.. but..
If I may be so bold may I recommend the SMK 208 series? They've got a genuinely very good trigger (they're usually light out of the box) and they have a very soft recoil. The last 208 I put through the chrono was the new 208SG and that only had a max spread of 7fps over 10 shots.. that's better than nearly everything else I've put through that chrono! They're genuinely very easy to shoot well and they come in a standard sporter stock, skeletal stock, synthetic or my personal favourite the thumbhole version. I personally would recommend the 208 over the other two. Sorry Alan if I've made your decision even harder mate!
I'm currently based in Essex mate not far from Chelmsford, as you can tell I've only been here for a few years as my skin hasn't turned orange.
Good stuff man , keep up these absolutely fantastic reviews . I’m a newbie to ur channel an I personally think ur channel is one of the best!! Greetings Dan from Portsmouth England 🏴.
Love the detail on the stock of the Webley especially the curve of the pistol grip. Probably isn’t but looks a bit of a steeper angle
Hello Dan, i have owned a 97k for quite some time having bought it new. Its a rifle that has a very strong reputation. However, mine has never really impressed me with regard to its grouping. I have recently impulse bought a like new mk2 Eclipse and have been totally shocked how much more accurate it is than the 97k! In that respect i believe your test was unfair because a tuned hw77 should be much better than standard rifle and although the Eclipse had a none standard spring that does not equal the balance of a tuned rifle. Therefore, i believe if the hw77 was standard, the Eclipse would have monstered it in every way.
Hey Ferrariman!
Yeah I'll be the first to confess that the review was a bit tilted in the HW's favour. That being said it's so close either way that I'm genuinely thinking about stripping the Eclipse for the final battle (can't leave it 1:1 can we?). I'm glad you're loving the Eclipse they're such an underrated rifle. Beautiful too!
You can immediately feel the quick locktime on the Eclipse can't you? Squeeze that trigger and she's on her way.
Thanks Ferrariman!
I've owned a Webley Eclipse MK2 Carbine in .22 since new. It's in immaculate condition and has had minimal use. I have more time to use it these days along with all my other rifles and pistols.
I've had both gun, the Eclipse (Mk1) in .22 carbine and the 77 in .22. I definitely prefer the Webley, it should never have gone out of production.
Hi Jon!
I won't be arguing with that mate, the Eclipse is still going today but they've made it a pistol...
I almost refuse to call it an Eclipse!
Thanks Jon.
If eclipse is better why hw 77 is one of the best seller airguns and is still in the market
That's an excellent question, the answer is because back in the 80's it was the Weihrauch that took the airgun world by storm.
Both the Eclipse and BSA's Superstar were released years after the HW77 and neither one of them really outshone the Weihrauch which had all of the performance of the two new contenders and was also easier to get along with (definitely so compared to the Eclipse), the reason it still sells well is because the HW77 has a very well proven design and is still one of the best underlevers on the market today with a brilliant pedigree. I'd even argue that the HW77 is better balanced than the later HW97.. and that hurts to say as someone who owns a HW97!
I never stated that the Eclipse was a better rifle than the HW77 in fact the score at the end was a tie. Even during the accuracy test despite the fact that the Eclipse shot better on that day I still said that the HW77 is easily just as accurate with a shooter that is used to it.
The reason why I personally prefer the Eclipse is because I find that the trigger feels more responsive when it has been set light compared to the Rekord trigger and I actually preferred the snappier shot cycle on the Eclipse compared to the HW77's lazier shot cycle (although it did also recoil less!). The main reason I prefer the Eclipse though is because it's a bit of a forgotten underdog.. it never had the reputation of the HW77 and I do understand why, but the Eclipse is still every bit as accurate and in my opinion it's a classier looking rifle to boot.
@@bigdansairguns83 There was another reason the Eclipse was left behind, I'm sure there was another video where it was said there was a big delay between the press getting the first guns to test and the public being able to buy one, and the airgun market is also a fashion led one. I remember Rod Lynton testing one in Airgun World and getting some really tight groups with the carbine version, but only with some pellets (too long ago to remember which though), which brings me to another point - always try a few different pellets to find the ones your rifle likes, I'd be very surprised if a German barrel liked the same pellets as an English one, back then Webley and BSA were still using 5.6mm bores, and the rest of the world 5.5mm in .22" rifles. Superdomes were soft enough to be a compromise and work in both well enough, but not excel in either.
@@bobthebarsteward Excellent comment Rob thanks for that! I did know about the different bore sizes as it's one of the reasons why the Eley Wasp was so fondly thought of back in the day due to it being 5.6 compared to 5.5 and genuinely being a well made pellet, funnily enough the uncle's 77 (what I'm shooting here) actually loved the larger Wasps back in the day according to him. Sadly the current Wasps are a shadow of their former selves by what I've researched though..
I used the Superdomes as I knew that both rifles liked them but the main problem occurred at 40 yards where neither scopes gave me a clear sight picture and with only 4x zoom the crosshairs were blocking off a fair chunk of the target. I'll say this though, that Fontaine scope that was fitted to the HW77 although only a 4x32 was a really lovely little scope yet I'd never heard of Fontaine prior to handling the HW77.
Great review and both great guns but I think the HW77 is the better one and I think you know that as well!!!!
Nice one dan ,I have a 97k in 177 wood stock 10 years old shoots as good as new , a bit heavy but ok 👍
Hey Phillip!
The 97's are excellent mate I love mine. If my 97 could have the safety and bluing of the Eclipse it'd be the perfect rifle.
I have shot weirauchs since I was a kid and have found them to be rock solid and accurate.
Ive never crushed a pellet putting a pellet in the breach of a 77 or 97. Tap loaders, however it does happen.
Back in the day for the money bsa superstar ,for under levers got mine in 91 and still shoots bang on
Hi Stephen,
I'm hearing that quite a lot mate, as soon as I can get my mitts on one I'll run it through its paces.
It sounds like one helluva rifle.
I knew that 77 wasnt standard with that first shot before you mentioned the tune 😁 makes that satisfying thud you get from a properly sorted kit! Good stuff, i prefer hw77 to most the tosh coming out these days i treated myself to a hw77k laminate a while back in .22.
Hi Dan, my collection consists of .. HW100 in .20 cal..AA U.Sporter.in .177 .. 2x FX VERMINATOR's in both .177&.22 ..Diana 430 Stutzen .22 ( Sandwell Fieldsports tuned) the other 2 Diana's as previously mentioned. BSA Ultra Mmc in .22 Falcon Lighthunter .22 AND my very 1st air rifle BSA Cadet Major .177 as you can see I'm a bit of an airgun freak . I also have a rimfires CZ455 in .22Lr TH . a CZ 425 in .17 HMR ( a bit special that one as its glass bedded/ tuned trigger and a tapered match grade barrel by Lother Walther) a RUGER 10/22 that's got all the rimfire Magic bells and whistles with custom stock .. oh and a Browning 525 OV 20g . I'm a bit of a basket case and there's no hope for me where nice rifles are concerned . Regards Alan
You have more rifles than I have in stock Alan! You aren't planning on invading France any time soon are you?
That's a wonderful collection though Alan, the uncle also loves his CZ but his is the 452. They're a beautifully accurate little rifle but I can understand why you had the trigger tuned as his .22 trigger is pretty woeful, the .17HMR isn't too bad though.
I would hate to be the burglar that breaks into your house Alan.
This is interesting.
In the late 70s and early 80s there was the Original 45 a brilliant air rifle a big rifle very accurate .
I also had an HW 35
At the same time there was the Webley Vulcan it had a single stage trigger and could suffer from play in the barrel.
The strange thing is that even though I loved my 45 and the HW 35 I had a soft spot for the Webley it just felt right in my hands and gave good accuracy at air rifle distances.
Unfortunately my Webley Vulcan was stolen 😢.
The best rifle is what suits you and your comfortable with and it's intended use.
Oh I also had a Sharp Innova,but that's another story 😂😂😂😂
Would be nice if you could get hold of an old mid 1970's .22 BSA Mercury to review - It was my first ever rifle & a superbly accurate weapon IMO. A break action springer & more power than the Meteor with the AIRSPORTER size Cylinder.
Hi Dan , sounds as though you and I are from similar backgrounds ( farming) so thus we suffer from from farmers hands ( bloody big fingers) so just about any spring loaded mag is fiddly. But if you can master the FX system as I have on my VERMINATOR's just about anything else is second nature. Thing with the SMK unit is they seem sloppy but they really aren't I've not had a single problem with mine ,they index perfectly and I use JSB Exact with absolutely no problems can't vouch for any other pellet as I haven't tried them and they are as cheap as chips to replace . As I said if anyone is looking for a very good budget vermin control rifle / pistol combo for rabbits / squirrels or any avian quarry out to 30/35m ( rifle mode) the cp2 will do the job . Mines pumping out between 8/9 psi worth the Crossman capsule with approx 40+ full power shots. I don't know how / if temermental it will be as the weather conditions change but we'll see. I'll take look as those 208 rifles on your page and touch base early next week . Regards Alan
I owned a Webley Eclips many years ago. I have very big problems that the scoope moved , and i try too solve it in many ways, but i failed, and sold it. The scoop rest in very good base, made to 30.06 cal.
Great review Dan, I've always loved the eclipse ever since it came out.One thing i don't think you mentioned is the fact that the 77has a steel compression tube and the Webley has one made from aircraft grade aluminium another feather in the Webley,s cap.love springers man keep em coming atb Dave
Hi Dave!
Thanks for the feedback mate it means a lot! Yes mate I did originally plan to mention the differences there but it must've slipped my mind during filming. I know it was done to lessen the weight of the rifle and it could also be another reason why the shot cycle of the Webley seems to have a more piercing "twang" compared to the HW77.
Thanks Dave!
I have an Eclipse. It's nice. My most expensive rifle, including my deer rifle. Looking at adding a scope. Scope mount is shown to be 14 mm. All I can find are 11 mm mounts.
Hi Scott,
that's an odd one... my Eclipse simply uses standard mounts as far as I'm aware. Have you tried 11mm mounts yet just to be sure?
Nice one again Dan , but i think you should have had a third under lever the BSA Superstar i loved mine, i did have an Eclipse and as for the HW77 i never liked them, HW80 now that was a gun in it's day a bit heavy but bloody good, but the 77 i just never seen what every one was going on about it, In fact my stepson has one and it is minted he never used it much, i think he still has the tin of pellets that he got at the same time, and it's still full. looking forward to next video ;)
They should bring back the bsa underlevers! I loved the 10 shot version. Every ones raving about the gamo maxim but bsa did it better 25 years ago.
Yes Andrew and i had one it was the goldstar, but my Superstar out shot it hands down :)
Haha thanks Scott. Well I'll tell you what, if I can get my hands on a Superstar I'll do the review but towards the end put it against the Eclipse and the HW77.
I have yet to shoot a HW80 but I've heard they're excellent. How comes you didn't like the HW77 Scott? I may have an erm... very soft bias towards the Eclipse but the HW77 is definitely well up there when it comes to my favourite underlever rifles. I'd put it above the TX200 personally.
Please don't kill me Air Arms fans.
I had the TX200 as well when they cam out at first, and yet again i was not overly impressed, but what it all came down to with the HW77 and the TX200 was the loading i just did not trust it, not that i have seen or even heard of any one having a mishap with them i just didn't like putting my fingers in front of that powerful spring no no no F*&% that lol
Yes mate that's understandable, I tell everyone that buys an underlever that even if it has the best anti-beartrap system in the world you should definitely still hold that lever down.
That being said though.. I can definitely still see why the sliding breech design outclassed the taploading system. The Webley feels lovely to load and I can actually load it fairly quickly now but I can't deny that the HW77 just feels that little bit more refined where loading is concerned.
I just hope that the people that see this video give the Eclipse a try. It really is a lovely thing to shoot.
The HW77 didn't like those pellets simple as that Having owned both the 77 is a better gun. I'm not bias in anyway and don't care one way or the other what people say about them. Us in the know will agree
Hi Russel!
The HW77 is a brilliant rifle but for me personally I'm an Eclipse man. It's that little bit more unique and I find has more character than the HW77. Down range in this test it also proved superior.
...That said...I did a second video where through gritted teeth I'll admit that the HW77 won. Is what it is.
Saying all of this however I actually find that the best feeling underlever out of all of them (possibly even including my Webley and if you can get a good one) is the HW57 we reviewed, as a hunting rifle it spanks the HW77 and the Eclipse but only as long as you can get one that works properly.
I've got the Eclipse MKII in .22 and it's a lovely gun. Sadly, in my younger years, I made the terrible mistake of putting it away in a foam-lined hard case that'd been left open in a barn whilst my friends and I had gone off down the fields, and which had become damp. I stupidly forgot to take the gun out of the case when I got home. The thing literally rusted overnight, I couldn't believe it had happened so fast. The cylinder is ok, that looks like it did the day I first got it (for my 18th birthday I believe) because it's made of an alloy, but the barrel and the cocking lever are both rusty. I keep toying with the idea of taking it to a gunsmith to get it re-blued or even maybe doing it myself but I wouldn't want to mess it up, it has sentimental value. It's not too badly pitted so hopefully they could get it back to a decent finish without losing too much metal. Makes me feel a bit sad even now. Anyhow, I've never had a Weirauch HW77 but I do really like the look of those, in fact all the Weirauch underlevers.
I would definitely have it repaired... good time to go over the internals too with new seals and lube.... especially if you have an professional airgunsmiths in your area... are you in the UK ?
@@airmojo Yes, in the UK. maybe I'll take it into a good place locally once we're not locked down any more.
@@BarnSt0rmer It could be a fun project gun... Phil Bulmer did an article in Airgun World magazine, March 2003 in his "Bulmer Does a Strip" section... my favorite part of the whole magazine, as long as it was about a spring-piston airgun !
You can always give it a try removing the rust... just remove the action from the stock and go over it with super fine 0000 steel wool and WD40... I've used cold bluing like Brownell's Oxpho Blue with good success... there's probably similar product in your area... I use Ballistol to wipe down my guns... great for metal, wood, rubber... I love the stuff !
love your presentation.
Hi Dan, it's me again. I found me a Tracker in .177 now a few months ago. Had it shot in with a Barnett scope today and gave it a little wipe with Ballistol oil afterwards and wanted to decock it at the end.
Unfortunately it jammed. I cant move the sidelever outwards now, the trigger is in the backward Position, the safety cannot be engaged and the anty-beartrap seems to have it's grip on the piston.
I took the stock off but found no way to get it to work again.
Do you have any tipps or tricks for me to bring it back from this cocked jam?
Best wishes
Martin
Hi Martin!
Damn that sounds like a bugger, unfortunately I haven't stripped a Tracker yet so I wouldn't quite know how to de-cock it. A buddy of mine is into classic air rifles I'll ask him and see if he has any input.
Thanks Martin and I'll see what I can do.
@@bigdansairguns83
Hi Dan!
Thank you for your quick reply!
I hope your buddy has some advice for me!
Best wishes
Martin
@@bigdansairguns83
Hi Dan,
for a better start into the weekend I tried to solve the problem again now and succeeded this time: The problem was the latch, that holds the cocking lever. It didn't release. So no jam inside, in spite of the blocked trigger and safety. After the lever was free I could bring it in the rear position and reset the trigger and got the safety operable again.
My conclusion is that the Webley side lever rifles can not be decocked without firing.
I gave it some more lube for the lever latch and mainspring and shot it to decock.
Now my little beauty is back in it's bag and takes a rest. And I can enjoy my weekend.👍🍀
Greetings to your buddy and have a nice weekend, pal!
Best wishes and thank you again for your support!
Martin
@@martinskovby8856 Hi Martin.
I'm glad to hear you got it sorted mate they're a lovely rifle when they're running right.
Cheers Martin and all the best!
My first air rifle was the BSA Superstar (I think), underlever with rotary breech loading. Wish I still had it. 16 ft lbs fac
The Superstar is a gorgeous thing to shoot mate.. I may actually have access to one soon, I smell a rematch coming on!!
@@bigdansairguns83 Best wishes from Northern Ireland.
Derek Todd l EWA
Hw77 vs. Hw97 what's your guy's pick and why? Let's say if both in .22
I have 2 air rifles. A Weihrauch hw97 .22 and a Benjamin Sheridan blue streak .20 from the early 80's with a Williams peep sight. I love them both.
Taken so many tree rats out with them. :)
I don't believe it is a zephur to be honest, should have a venom type end on it. The piston had a ptfe type coating on it too. It also had a theoben piston seal that was supposed to direct the air to the transfer port. Just my humble opinion.
Hey Steve.
The HW77 is a "Zephyr tuned" rifle but not an off the shelf "Zephyr" like you have pointed out. Back in the day you could take the HW77 to the Airgun Centre here in Rayleigh and have the internals tuned to Zephyr spec while the externals stayed the same. He's actually still got the original paperwork somewhere that was given after it was sorted.
It's a beautiful rifle to shoot and you can see how little recoil there is on the handling section. Still prefer the Webley though. 😉
@@bigdansairguns83 I do have a zephur and thanks for the info, every day is a school day.
WEIHRAUCH HW77 177 What is the most suitable ir scope for a rifle?
Hi Dan, enjoyed that comparison test , very honest. Any chance you could review the Diana Mauser m-03 n-Tec ? Regards Alan
Haha thanks Alan, the Webley is blatantly better though isn't it?
Hi Dan, yes I agree. I don't think the new Hw springers are as good as the older rifles ( built by accountants now unfortunately ) . I have a collection of air rifles I won't bore you with BUT I've just managed to buy 2 older Diana's , a 54 mid 80's vintage and a 48 ( Pro Black)mid 2000 . Both sleepers ( seen hardly any work, 1000 pellets between them) pellet.group inside a 2 p at 37m from both of them RWS wad cutters ( H points) that'll do for me . Regards Alan
By all means Alan feel free to bore me mate as you can tell I love my airguns, it even made me become an RFD!
I agree regarding the newer HW's, my 97 which I plan on reviewing very soon has been cared for all its life and yet the bluing has faded from the top of the action and the underlever section.. it isn't corrosion but the bluing is just fading away. Seriously disappointed.
Dan since you are British...you are coloured in this comparison...HW77K is honestly the better gun.
HW77K must be the best underlever airrifle of all times. Not even the AirArms can compare to the HW...since all it has done is to copied the HW action (sliding breech). When HW77K came it revolutionized the airgun world.
Hi Tom!
I did have a bit of a laugh on the earlier section I know how great the HW77 is and I'd never say it was a bad rifle. In this test however the Webley genuinely beat the HW and that rifle itself is renowned for its accuracy.
In regards to the sliding breech design Wiehrauch never invented it neither, according to accounts online (whether true or not) the original design belonged to a Chinese rifle known as the "lion" underlever air rifle. You can find pictures online with the sliding breech design clearly on show.
That said we did do a second face off video and you might find that one more agreeable. 😉
Thx Dan...Looking at the second meet of the Guns and the BSA...I am happy...You gave accuracy to HW77K...even if it was German😂...must have felt that in the heart😅
The Gerry’s have us beat this time my friend I was given a hw 77 yesterday funny enough
It's only a momentary set back Karlos we'll get them next time I'm sure.
Technically the Jerries are sort of cheating as the 77 was Zephyr tuned back in the day so I say that means we're allowed to polish the internals of the Eclipse..
I shan't take this sitting down Karlos, it's our boy against theirs and it needs all the help it can get!
Interesting comparison... I have a .177 Webley Eclipse (Beeman import) that I bought in 1993... I believe it's a Mk1, the difference being the underlever release... mine does not have the front button, but a double slide side release.
I don't think the Eclipse is technically a "tap loader"... my understanding of a "tap loader" is that there is a mechanism that pops up and the pellet is inserted into it, then pressed back down into place... they can have air leakage issues from what I understand, but I have never had one to have any experience with it.
The receiver on the Eclipse is aluminum that makes it lighter than say the HW77, or any big air rifle with a steel receiver... you have to be careful when working on them or mounting a scope so as not to damage the scope grooves or screw threads... I have not had mine a part yet, but hope to do a re-lube on it at some point.
I think it is a good practice to NOT press the loading hatch back down, letting the little metal catch rub the receiver, but instead hold the lever so the catch remains inside the loading hatch until it is firmly closed... this will reduce any wear on the latch and the receiver.
I also have an HW77K (karbine/carbine--short barrel) in .20 (5mm) that I purchased used from an estate sale about 20 years ago... I think it is more accurate than the Eclipse, and the Rekord is a better trigger.
I love both air rifles for what they both are, and glad to have them in my collection... I also have a .177 TX200, and it's a tack driver too, more for field target use with a 6-24x scope... not as easy to carry around like my Eclipse or the HW77K... the Eclipse is probably the easiest of the three to carry and hunt with.
Your .22 HW77 appears to have a short karbine/carbine barrel too... is it a HW77K ?
What a fantastic comment thanks airmojo.
Yes that was a HW77K that had been Zephyr tuned. Like I said in the video it was a slightly unfair comparison as I was more used to shooting the Webley than the HW77 and as stated regarding accuracy in neutral hands they'd both be as accurate as each other in my opinion.
I know I'm the only one of the planet to do this but I do disagree on the trigger however, don't get me wrong the Rekord unit is easily one of the best trigger units around but it's the way that the trigger breaks is why I prefer the Eclipse.
As someone who prefers a lighter trigger I love the way that the Eclipse unit actually seems to almost lighten up before it breaks. It's a purely subjective thing and I can be a bit of a nutcase when it comes to how I like my triggers but I genuinely prefer the Eclipse in this regard.
As Scott has mentioned I need to get a BSA Superstar and re-do the face off again. Maybe throw in a Relum Tornado for a bit of a laugh!
Thanks mate!
@@bigdansairguns83 To be honest, I don't recall trying to adjust the trigger on my Eclipse... gonna have to try that just to see, but it really is hard to beat a Rekord trigger... I very seldom mess with triggers unless they are way too heavy, and I do like a little 1st stage creep so I know when the gun will actually shoot.
I've never had a BSA come my way or I would probably own one.
I do have an underlever Sterling Armaments HR81 in .22... a whole other animal of an air rifle... built like a tank and has a bolt action insert the pellet in the breech.
@@airmojo I won't lie mate I've never even heard of a Sterling Armaments HR81 but I'm sure you can guess what my next Google search will be haha. It sounds like a lovely bit of kit though!
Quick edit I've just looked one up and what an odd design for a rifle. How does it shoot mate?
Tom Gaylord has a four part article on the Sterling HR81, later made by Benjamin Sheridan as well, on his Pyramyd Air blog... here is part-1... www.pyramydair.com/blog/2011/02/sterling-hr-81-177-underlever-air-rifle-part-1/
My 77 doesn’t shoot well on Superdome pellets so this makes the 77 accuracy look bad. Safety has always been my big bear with the 77 more so in the field.
Hi Crusader,
This particular 77 loves Superdomes and Remington/HN Baracudas and before I got used to lighter triggers I could achieve very similar groups like what the Eclipse put out at 25 yards like I mentioned in the video. The HW77 is an amazingly accurate rifle but with this test it just came down to the Eclipse's trigger that better suited my tastes and my lack of experience with using a 4x zoom scope at 40 yards.
That's why I rated both rifles the same when it came to accuracy because with someone who was used to that particular 77's trigger they would have similar/possibly greater groups than what the Webley put out.
Thanks for watching mate and as Scott has mentioned below the HW77 might be able to regain ground with my planned Eclipse vs HW77 vs Superstar review where I'll spend more time to adjust myself to the HW77.
I had a .22 Zephyr back in the 80s with the standard stock like your uncles.Mine was longer though as the one you have there is the K carbine version. As to the 77 being like a Venom tune..Its not..The venom guns had glided pistons with plastic inserts whereas the Zephyrs piston & spring were coated with a green ptfe & also had a Theoben piston seal..Take the stock off that 77 & take a look.You will see what Im talking about...As for the trigger being heavy you can simply wind out the screw a little at a time until its perfect for your taste,,Be careful though as you can make it so light it will fire at the lightest touch..Accuracy wise they are both great but you can tell the Eclipse is your own gun & therefore you are bound to shoot a little better with it :) If I tested both I bet Id do better with the Weihrauch.lol I enjoyed the review anyway & it was nice to see an Eclipse again....Didnt they also have an alloy action to save weight? Im sure they did.
They did and not many people liked the alloy piston either haha, it definitely gives the Eclipse a higher pitched sounding action when that trigger is pulled.
Mr Foulkes.. are you insinuating that I had some bias in this video review?? It's not my fault that the Webley is a fine piece of British engineering and the Weihrauch is a hunk of German junk.
Just kidding of course haha, you're absolutely right mate as I said myself the only reason the Webley won the accuracy tests was because I'd simply handled it more, the HW77's are immensely accurate and I'd even argue that it'd be easier to shoot than the Eclipse straight out of the box as the shot cycle is a bit lazier, I do personally prefer the Webley's snappier action myself though.
Regarding the triggers you're right again regarding the Rekord unit and how they can be adjusted, I personally own a HW97 and the trigger is wonderful but that being said I really do like the feel of the Webley trigger.. it's hard to explain but compared to the Rekord unit which gets slightly stiffer when the second stage sets in the Webley actually lightens up a bit which once you adjust to it gives you a lovely smooth pull.
Both are excellent rifles Derek mate but I just cant help but respect the HW77 but love the Webley.
@@bigdansairguns83 My favourite Webley was the Omega..Brilliant break barrel gun...I havent seen one in decades though :)
Dan do you sell the webley eclipse
Hi Nigel!
Sadly not I'm afraid and the Eclipse on show is an older discontinued model.
Hi just to ask if anyone knows what thread the barrel on the eclipse is please
I have a mk1 & would like a moderator on her.
77 all day long.
Had both still got hw77 both great guns
Hey Dan great review and if your still wanting to review a hw80 let me no I'm sure I could help you out keep up the good work
My 77 has the button release but is heavy af
Hey Karlos,
They are heavy brutes but they're also well balanced which helps to mitigate the weight a bit in my opinion. Regarding balance they're much better than the 97 which feels even heavier!
Dan a true reflection of a gun`s capabilities would be to use a pellet that suits that individual gun best.
Put JSB Exact Express through a 77 and you`ll be amazed with the accuracy.
Same JSB pellets might well disagree with the Eclipse.
" Get my drift " ?
atb Mark.
Hi Mark,
Thanks for the comment, I'm actually preparing the HW77 for a rematch and I've run several tins of pellets through the rifle including JSB's and AA and although they were okay they weren't amazing. So far the top pellets are the RWS Superdomes and the Rifle Premium domes which I was getting sub 5p groups with all day today.
I tell you what I did find that was pretty odd though.. for a bit of fun I decided to put some budget pellets through both rifles and see the results and to be fair it went pretty much as to be expected... until I put some SMK Victory Shock pellets through the Eclipse. I've got to be honest mate they aren't far behind the Superdomes and you can see in this video at 25 yards just how good they are in the Webley. To say I was surprised would be an understatement.
......they were absolute crap in the HW77 though...
Hello. at 9:39 you put pellet in to the barrel !??? I thought you put a pellet in to the top load thing you flip up. ( pellet nose down )
What´s the point about this mechanism ???
No, the pellet goes into the barrel breech... the loading hatch is basically an extension of the transfer port... you would not want the pellet to go through the loading hatch and then the barrel... the pellet would not fit anyways... there is a barrel breech seal, and a seal on the loading hatch end near the transfer port.
The loading hatch just makes it fairly easy to load a pellet without fear of chopping off a finger like on the HW77... always hold the underlever on any air rifle while loading a pellet... even on the Eclipse... you could bend or crack something on the rifle.
@@airmojo Yep. I don't like the idea of poking my fingers into a sliding breech, so I always appreciated the flip-up loading hatch on my Eclipse MKII. I also have a Diana Model 75 sidelever target rifle which is spring powered but recoilless (it has 2 pistons which move in opposite directions to cancel each other out) and that gun has a slide-open breach, and it's always at the back of my mind that one day the safety mechanism's going to give up the ghost whilst I'm loading it.
@@BarnSt0rmer The Diana Model 75 sounds like works similar to my FWB300SU... it also uses a side lever to cock that has a safety lock when cocked... I too am a little leery of sticking my fingers into the breach while inserting a pellet... now if the lever was on the left side you could probably hold it with your left hand while loading with your right... I've always been told NOT to trust any safety.
I remember a fellow airgunner recommending the same setup for Whiscombe air rifles, and it would also help prevent dry-firing the rifle (while shooting right-handed) so you can see the side lever obviously open... there is am optimal way of cocking and loading a Whiscombe which is opening the breech before cocking the rifle (which takes 2 or 3 strokes depending on the model) allowing air to be drawn into the transfer port, then insert the pellet in the breech, then close the side lever... the side lever can be opened and closed at any time... it does not lock... the safety is set when you complete the final cocking stroke.
@@airmojo I believe the FWB300SU uses a sledge system, where the whole lot can slide back and forth a short distance within the stock to absorb some of the recoil. I've shot targets with one of those, they're very nice. The Dianas (some of them anyway) use the "GISS system" with 2 pistons inside the cylinder which move in opposite directions. One piston moves forwards to compress air to fire the pellet, like in pretty much any springer, and a 2nd piston moves backwards at the same time with equal force to cancel out the recoil (but does not compress any air). It works pretty well but it's a fairly complicated system with lots of moving parts and there are only a few places (as I understand it) who can reliably service them. So I'm hoping mine doesn't break down. It's as old as I am and still going strong (fingers crossed). I've only had it for a couple of years.
@@BarnSt0rmer Yes, the FWB300's has a sliding action... only one piston.
I do have a HyScore 810m (rebranded Diana Model 60) recoiless match air rifle that I got from a pawnshop when I was working out of town... it was stored away in their back room for who knows how long... it was made in 1971... It's a break-barrel and it has the GISS system... I did not even attempt to cock or fire it... I sent it off to a guy I know who tunes and fixes a lot of various air rifles.
He brought it back to life, and it's one of my most favorite air rifles !
Hi, I wouldn't want to be a burglar either , you should see my wife 👹. We've been married 40 years and I'm still afraid of her 🤓. Dan I've read with interest your review on the Remington Pest Controller and Express also the Milbro Target Master , are these American or Chinese / eastern European made?. I'm a semi retired pest controller and looking for a reliable spring or Gas ram powered rifle to keep in my Defender as a back up truck rifle that won't break the bank or fall to pieces after 2 tins of pellets , I'd appreciate your advise / opinion ( what would you have)??. I'm quite a solid 15 stone so weight and sixe aren't really an issue .Regards Alan
Hahaha I'm sure she can't be that bad. All three of those rifles are made in China and the Remington Pest Controller is basically an XS19 in a new stock.. which isn't a bad thing as the SMK XS19 is a brilliantly consistent little rifle.
Out of those three Alan it's between the two Remingtons. The Express has a nicer stock and a better trigger in my opinion but the Pest Controller feels a little bit more comfortable to shoulder and I like the simple toggle safety. You can't really lose with either one.
The tx 200 and the diana 48 and diana 52 air king and 52 and the hw 80 and the air arms sr and the fwb300 and 300s and pro sport were all around in the late 80s early 90s even theobens were about back then and some of the rifles i mentioned would absolutely destroy the rifles your reviewing here dont get me wrong the eclipse and 77 are ver nice rifles tho
Hi mate,
destroy my Eclipse....? That's fighting talk right there.
The HW77 only beat it this time because it got lucky..
Just kidding mate I'll keep my eyes open for them. You might laugh but the rifle I really want to try against these two for the final is a Relum Tornado.. just for fun.
Iv been shooting for 40 years shotguns 22 rimfire pcp's most springers , the 77 in the day didnt collect more trophy's than any other springer on the market by sheer chance , and now the 97k continues that trend with cp lights in 177 getting sub 3" groups at 110m // long range spring rifle vlog // video on youtube .annual long range spring gun comp in Stockholm
HW77 all day long .
Both good! But neither better than the AA TX 200
I've not spent much time with the TX I will confess but neither of these guns are slouches. The HW in particular has barely zero recoil no doubt due to the modifications that were made back in the day and the Webley is also on point.
Out of the box the AA is the best of all of the modern underlevers or so I've heard (it's by far the prettiest) but these two old girls will spank most springers... don't listen to those that doubt my dear old Eclipse they're all liars haha.
Thanks Crazy! I need to get a TX tested it's blasphemy that I haven't.
@@bigdansairguns83 totally agree mate! Neither are slouches having owned the 3 they all in my top 10 of all time real quality guns.
I would never buy that Webley. A springer is beautiful because of it's simplicity. That is not.
I just put a hawk scope on my Remington express (and adjusted it back on the rail) and it is simple, accurate and powerful.
Hey gruffy,
what is it that you don't like about the Eclipse then? Is it the loading port?
I think the Eclipse is beautiful but it's a case of each to their own I guess. The Remington Express is a lovely rifle though and they punch well above their weight!
Thanks Gruffy.
I find that opening and closing the loading port on the Webley takes a split second once you're used to doing it. It just happens without me even thinking about it.
Very unbiased ! lol
I do my best Jim.
It's not my fault that the HW77 is inferior to the gorgeous finely tuned Webley Eclipse.
It's because of this that the HW77 has been lost to time and Eclipses are still sold to this very day.
Maybe.
Unfortunaly the Germans make better firearms
Now China have better PCP air rifle.
Hi Vilayat.,
Well I'll soon be taking a look at the Artemis M16 (air cylinder version) so I guess we'll find out!