Do Sylomer Drum Isolation Platforms Really Work?
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- Опубліковано 9 тра 2024
- In this video I test a Sylomer drum platform that I designed and built for use in my Melbourne apartment (which seemed to work for 2 years, but I was never able to test it out!). Now I finally got the opportunity to put a microphone in the room below the kit, you will be able to see the isolation provided by the platform as I test 3 scenarios:
1. On the carpet
2. On the foam mat
3. On the platform
0:00 - Intro
1:37 - Setup Walkthrough
3:15 - Test Results
5:21 - Investigation
8:38 - Conclusion
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So informative! Can't wait to not annoy my neighbours
Thanks a lot for this technical study. Fantastic job.
Dude, flipping fantastic video! thank you!
super thorough, thank you for this!
Agree on the airborne impulses. I have Roland KT-10 bass drum pedals, which are a horror for this issue. To really do the thing well, I believe a drum booth with top and four sides needs to absorb the air transmitted impulses, a high percentage % of which is the bass drum impacts, keeping them away from the floor and walls. Mine is made from 1x3 pine framing, cotton batting, door skin back, moving blanket covers. Works decently, light weight.
I found that the platform needed to be a multi-level thing, starting with 5" of high density foam, MDF layer, inexpensive dacron filled pillows, MDF layer, 2" of Terry Cloth towels, (look up UA-cam show in this), a layer of mass loaded Vinal, MDF layer. The whole thing getting nearly a foot high, and the layers need to have no mechanical fasteners - each level must float. That's what it actually takes to eliminate 90+ percent of those impacts before hitting the floor. A separate riser for the drum throne is needed.
I was horrified how difficult it was, and how costly. I started with the tennis ball thing, which did nothing at all, then began experimenting with ideas. The initial mattress grade foam idea came from a guy who used a foam mattress with a MDF layer on top, finding that this was much more effective than the tennis ball thing. It was, but not good enough for my issue, as the construction of my condo only has an insulated wood framed floor, making it almost impossible to succeed with the project. I was under notice of lawsuit if I couldn't shut the things up. It's been quite frustrating. E drums are not quiet at all. Impact noise is the most difficult thing to absorb completely.
Wow sounds like quite a construction. Do you have any pictures documented? The foam layer construction reminds me of a technique I read in Rod Gervais's book about floating floors built over solid fibreglass insulation. The method anecdotally works, but I don't recall there being any calculated method to it.
@@nikgdrums Got a few pics on the platform and panel construction. Decided that a full booth was required to fully do the job, lowering the reverberation in the room as much as possible. The platform grew organically, a head scratcher for sure. I hoped the first foam layer would be enough, but not so. The thing is annoyingly high, but so be it.
Finished a couple of the wall panels, it's a work in progress. Tested the design of the walls by building a miniature box, putting a recording of the tapping electronic set noise inside. Seems effective enough. Drywall walls would be better, but too heavy in my opinion, and the stick noise is not that bad. The design needs to be put together with pull latches so it can be broken down.
If I still get some unwanted noise bleed, I could add some mass loaded Vinal on the outside back of the panels. They would get heavy at that point, but at least I have an additional option. Costly though.
You had reasonable results on the stick tapping noise with nothing surrounding the kit downstairs, but still some acoustic bleed from those dammed pedals. Some kind of booth likely would solve that issue.
By the way, your design building an elevated framed platform with an uninsulated cavity creates a resonating chamber amplifying the bass pedal impulse. Fill that space with absorption material - a bunch of terrycloth from a thrift store - and a bottom layer of 3/4' plywood and you will do better before your foam floor pads the platform rests on.
Anyway, that's the progress so far.
Amazing test and analysis! So helpful! Would love to see follow ups.
Great technical analysis!
Man oh man….thank you for doing this. It was exactly the information I need. Very interesting and particularly how it’s the low frequency sounds that are the offenders! Brilliant stuff and very helpful.
Awesome test. Thanks!
A solid effort
your platform build like guitar body, that resonate itself
From experience -- whether or not these will work depends on the situation. If your downstairs neighbors say that it "sounds like there's a subwoofer upstairs", then these will most likely work very effectively. If however they can hear everything including the pitter patter of the cymbals, isolating the floor won't solve the whole issue.
Greetings! I am also concerned about this problem. I built the platform using three layers of plywood and two layers of Sylomer. The barrel is the loudest, despite the fact that it is made of Kevlar. There are two problems here - sound and vibration, which is also noticeable. Sylomer is just fighting vibration. There is an application for Android that can measure vibration.
In any case, this topic is relevant and interesting for many. Make more videos, I’ll be happy to discuss and share my experience. It's a pity that you can't attach a photo here. Definitely like it!)
Good to see such quite factual and clear test! Question: have you tried 2 levels of isolation, 1 with sylomer and 1 with tennis ball? Will it work? and stable (5:00 it also doesn't seem quite stable though)?
Thanks La Su. I did not try with tennis balls, because they do not have measurements/data sheet. To find the optimal arrangement of tennis balls you'd need to try different arrangements and test them. It certainly is a little wobble-y but you get used to it. To reduce the wobble you need more mass i.e. make the platform heavier - but that makes the project more expensive.
That's an awesomely thorough analysis ! Do you have some kind of engineer background ?
Congrats and thanks !
Glad you enjoyed it :) I do, I'm a chemical engineer
Hi, this analysis is top. In fact I think there's a significant difference with or without the raiser, although there is not a 100% reduction (wich I think ain't achievable with any DIY cheap method, anyways). As far as it doesn't bother your familly/neighborgs the job is done.
I'm planning to make a raiser but still haven't decided what kind I'll go for. For now I'm thinking of:
- 1st layer of Copopren (2 cm thick). It's a high density foam used in construction as an acoustic and vibration insulator (used in bars, pubs, and night clubs among others, so I guess it should work).
- 2nd layer of the same material, either another full layer or using the scraps as blocks (possibily filling the gaps with another softer/lower density material).
- 3rd layer of some plywood, DM or similar, 1 to 2 cm thick, for stability.
- 4th layer of 3mm thick rubber mat.
- 5th layer, a carpet.
To solve the issue of my weight, I'm thinking of making it in 2 different pieces (one for the kit and the other for the seat), joining them with some flexible union like zip ties or similar, not too tight, just to prevent the horizontal displacement but also making the kit side "free" from my weight. If I choose the "block" construction for the 2nd layer, then the seat side should be "reinforced".
What are your thoughts about it ?
Also, for the airborne sound, especially the bass drum (Roland KD-9), what do you think about using some pieces of noise absorbers placed around the pad beside of some rubber beaters instead of hard plastic ones ? Do you think that would make any difference or is it just a waste of time and money ?
Hi Isa, I can't guarantee the copropen will work as I don't know its acoustic properties - that said I'm sure it will provide some isolation value, the question is how much? Sylomer is about the best you can get for reducing structural transmission of noise/vibration - yet even in my test you can see it's not 100%.
I'd recommend 2cm of plywood, 1cm will be too flexible. The issue with building 2 separate sections for the kit and your throne are that the wobble of the platform might put you off playing. At least if you and the kit are on the same platform then any wobble is in unison, and less distracting. So I'd suggest building one platform.
The KD9 is inherently noisy, maybe try fixing some type of durable soft rubber to the front to reduce the impact noise? Upgrading to a mesh kick like the KD120 would be the most noise friendly option.
@@nikgdrums hi Nika, thanks for the reply.
Concerning the 2 pieces vs 1 piece, it's basically a practical issue: a single piece of the size I need in order to set it all comfortably (1'5 x1'5 m) doesn't fit in my car, nor passes through the stairs since it has a weird and narrow turn. Since I have to divide it anyway, I can try with the flexible joint and if it doesn't work well, I can always make a rigid joint using some metal plates or something. As an alternative I could make a smaller raiser and exclude the seat from it, just raising the seat height according to the raiser's total height.
As for the isolation material, I've thought of sylomer but I think it's more expensive and you have to do the all the maths according to the total weight, etc. Also I've found out that in my local store, I can buy a piece of copopren 4 cm thick (with just a bit more of surface than I need) cheaper than 2 pieces 2 cm thick (with a lot more of leftover material), so instead of the construction I described in my previous comment, I could just go for a "solid" (as solid as copopren could be) one thick layer of it below the wood. I think that would be more stable and simplier to make. And if it still doesn't work well, I guess I'm always on time to finally buy the sylomer, do the maths and throw some pieces to the mix. One thing + the other should definitely work, I guess.
As for the kick pad, well, upgrading and buying another one is not in my plans. If I can lower just a bit the volume of the one I have, good, if not, it will have to be enough. I want to change the beaters since the ones in the Tama Speed Cobra I'm using are too hard and too loud, but I'm just not sure of wich ones would be better. Softer ones, of course, but these pads are supposed not to be used with felt beaters and I'm not sure about the durability of softer rubber ones. I guess I might try sticking a patch or something to the pad and then some felt or rubber beaters? Also I though of opening the kick pad and stuffing all the metal and plastic structure with some kind of foam (the warranty is long expired anyways). I mean, any hollow space inside has necessarily be acting as a resonance chamber, so "blinding" it with foam must help. Maybe this alone won't make a hugh difference, but every bit helps, isn't it? And the same with the rack. That is something I realized when I used a rack with my acoustic kit vs when I used stands. With the rack, the resonance is higher due to the hollow metal tubes.
Well, I'm still considering how to do it and my car is in the workshop anyways, I'll let you know how it works when I'll do it.
Thanks for the great video! What kind of sylomer did you use, and from where did you buy it?
Hey Calum, I used SR11, and i bought it from an industrial supplier in Victoria, Australia. He was nice enough to sell me a small amount even though I'm sure he would normally sell to big industry :)
Thats a nice house man..
Thank you for making this video.
Have you tried without the puzzle mat you have on top? I have found that regular puzzle foam mats radiate impact noise like crazy.
I have not tried without, but my assumption would be it has some dampening benefit. What's your experience with foam mats radiating impact noise?
@@nikgdrums Yes I do and I decided to remove them. My family used them in a home gym, a kids playroom and in our office area under a big plastic floor protector with a rug on top. For me the mats were the only thing that made it worse.
I think that impact noise needs more weight that doesn't resonate as much.
I see your platform does work well for you.
Do you have any rubberized gym plates to place under the 4 touchpoints? Would be interesting to know if that makes it better.
I have tested things but with my ear against the floor/walls or with a contact mic and I found out things that work great in layers: heavy dense foam, layered gypsum board, sandwiched mdf, rubber gym flooring and things like Killmat.
Your test is really good and gives us great info. Thank you!
@@kriss7643 Interesting. I secondhand bought those mats and on top of that I have a drumrug. Curious if I remove those mats. But I also use the Roland Noise Eaters feets and boards. They are not cheap, but they work the best.
Furthermore I use a Drum-Tec Diablo basdrum and their basdrum absorbing beaters. Also not cheap, but these reduce the noise even more.
I live in a house with 3 floors and my drumkit is on the attic and both my neighbors could here me play and now they can’t anymore. 👍🏼
Still I want to try to put Sylomer block under the fitness mats, to create more layers. The fitness mats are stiff enough, but I don’t like it when it starts to get wobble. I played for years like that and it was very annoying.
And I guess those mats were designed to prevent the floor from damaging rather than for noise reduction? 🤔
@@angelorasmijn7306 Nice work, sounds like you've solved your drum noise issues. And yes I'd agree with the use of those mats to prevent damage rather than assist with noise reduction. That's why I use them :)
Nice test. Fortunately, I don't have that issue. I think that I'd find a way to move out if I did.
Definitely the best option! Not always the easiest :D
Where did you buy the sylomer pads in Australia? - Cheers!
by looking at your platform itself it seems like it the sound and impact is still direct to the ground, just wondering if u would test out like the tennis ball riser where those platforms have the gap in between and absorbing all the impacts from the kick, i think it will even reduce more sounds than your platform did?
The platform is isolated from the ground by the sylomer pieces. If what you mean by the tennis ball riser how the balls are sandwiched between two sheets of timber, they are only designed that way to keep the tennis balls in place and it would have no impact on the isolation performance.
Built a riser with halved tennis balls beneath a double layer of heavy MDF and industrial rubber. No complains from downstairs, ever - and I hit hard.
About to do the same thing with industrial rubber and riser with either sylomer or tennis balls. So you recommend the riser going down first, Mats on top?
@@cremoski455 You want as much mass as possible to float on the isolating material, so: Tennis balls or sylomer below the heavy stuff.
My riser is built like this (from the bottom): Felt (to protect the floor),
halved tennis balls (placed strategically, so more beneath the throne, fewer under the lighter parts of the kit), then one layer of heavy MDF, on top of that one layer of industrial rubber mats, and then another layer of MDF wrapped in some carpet for looks.
Great! Thanks for the detail!
You seem disappointed, but it's a massive difference in to 60Hz and below range. Looking at the EQ graph, without the platform we have spikes hitting at -20dB but the spikes with the platform are way down at -35dB. If we consider that 10dB is roughly a 50% reduction in perceived volume, we're probably somewhere around a 65% improvement at those frequencies. Just looking at the amplitude in the audio clips shows a big improvement. A complete reduction in noise may be unrealistic, but a 50+% reduction in noise could be plenty to make peace with your neighbors. One thing's for sure, the foam mat was a complete waste of time and money!
Spot on Jared! Yeah I suppose I was disappointed in the inability of the test to distinguish between the structural vs airborne noise reduction (because I couldn't isolate those variables) but overall it's still a good result, and like you said probably enough to get over noise complaints
Nick, could you provide a breakdown of materials used: type flooring used, dimensions of wood blocks, number of silomer blocks and dimensions please
Hi Cam, For the flooring I used a product in Australia called Formply. It is a 19mm plywood that has plastic coating between layers typically used for concreting. It is extremely rigid and not susceptible to warping. the platform size is 1200x1200mm. I used 4 sylomer pads, roughly 100x100mm each (but this will change depending on your weight). I also used the 25mm thick sylomer which has better isolation properties than the 12mm. 50mm is even better again. Hope this helps
@@nikgdrums Thank you Nik
Good test, thanks!
But can you describe how you build the platform? :)
Yes I might do a video at some point in the future
Great video and information mate!!!, i live in apartment and i need make this platform with sylomer. I think sylomer is the best answer for noises, up to now!. I Will post in a video when it will done!, Question: do you think SYlomer SR28 stil works like Sylomer SR11?, because here in Argentina, this material is very to get!!, but near where i live there a company have this Sylomer 28 in 12mm thick!, so, would you recommend that? thank you!
Apologies for the slow reply. Have you built it yet? You can still use SR28, but you will need to factor that into you calculations. You will inevitably need less surface area of SR28 than SR11 for the same load.
Conseguiste mutear el ruido para el depto de abajo con los materiales q se consiguen acá?
@@adrianaesteff como estas?, Acá Alejandro!, no, porque no pude conseguir los paneles. Estuve muy cerca de que me los consiguiera la importadora directo, acá en Parque INdustrial Pilar, pero no hubo forma por el valor. Tenían unos paneles con la mitad de densidad. De la misma marca pero mas finas y menos densas. Creí que con eso no iba a funcionar debidamente. Asique esta plataforma quedó en standby.
Si querés nos contactamos y vemos de juntarnos con quien mas se prenda en la compra de estos modulos de Sylomer. Estaría bueno retomar esta busqueda y fabricacion. Saludos que andes bien!!!
Bit late to the party, and I'm unsure if you ran a follow-up test, but i live in an old house made of masonry and timber, so the kick pedal travels through the floor and UP through the walls into the rooms ABOVE where I play - i live on the bottom floor.
I play on an Alesis Nitro Max, and the pedal is a felt head on a rubber drum head, so it's PRETTY dense when it hits.
I've started building a platform similar to this, but the inner workings have been dampened with foam and silicone bushings between things like fasteners and joints. I'll attempt to do something similar in an attempt to discover more adequate solutions to killing the sound of your platform.
I'd highly recommend sylomer or equivalent product, rather than foam or tennis balls etc. To get maximum sound isolation you really have to calculate the load and use the corresponding engineered product.
Hey Nik. Here are a couple of UA-cam videos on the subject:
The first one is where I got the towel idea:
ua-cam.com/video/pABvTWSxOes/v-deo.html
New ideas with this one:
ua-cam.com/video/OJsbsh5ZQ8A/v-deo.html
Great practical tests. The towel test proves density is key to reducing sound transmission. The second test proves absorption is important, in addition to isolation materials to reducing transmission outside of an environment. Quality resources.
I’d love to see how a sylomer riser compares to those tennis ball risers. I’ve built a tennis ball riser paired with those vibration isolation squares made for washing machines for my hammer weighted keyboard. However because my neighbor is terribly unreasonable and unpleasant, I don’t trust him to help me test if he hears something or not with them.
Well if your neighbour used to complain and has stopped since you built the riser, then I'd say it worked :D. But I agree, would be interesting to do a side by side comparison.
@@nikgdrums I haven't played much this past year so I don't have to deal with him. Also, he complains when I do absolutely nothing at all too (I was sitting on my couch doing nothing one day, and he started yelling at me through the window). My strategy is pick a time in the middle of the day to test it next, so he'll look ridiculous if he calls the police on me again. I need to call my landlord sometime, but I need some help because of language barrier (I'm a native english speaker living in asia).
@@Aaron-zh4kj Ah I see - not a great situation to be in. Just a reminder, a solution like this will never completely eliminate ALL the noise, but reduces it to an acceptable amount. If you have an unreasonable neighbour like you do then you can only do as much as possible to ensure you're not breaking any noise laws... or find a new place
@@nikgdrums Breaking News! I'm moving into a new place where I have the 2nd and 3rd floor of a building, and another person living on the first floor! If I get an electric drum kit, build a tennis ball riser, put it all on the 3rd floor, do you think there's any chance of the 1st floor neighbor hearing me?
@@Aaron-zh4kj Hi Aaron, that's exciting. Yes its still possible they could hear you because the sound could flank down the walls. You will have a much better result using an engineered isolation product like sylomer rather than tennis balls.
Did you use only 4 of the 10x10cm Sylomer SR11 pads? If so, this was not enough as the max load per 10x10x2.5cm pad is 11kg. So that means the total max for 4 pads was only 44kg.
Curious of the calculations used and the distribution of the Sylomer pads. I bought about a month ago SR11 pads and calculated the total weight of my kit + plywood platform + myself, subtracted about 5kg and multiplied by the lower factor which is 0.11 kg/cm2… as the range is up to 0.16 kg/cm2 more than enough range to add more stuff to the kit…. I am in the middle of thinking about pad distribution but not an expert on this stuff so just looking up videos and information to see what makes sense… so any good info you have to share would be awesome, happy to share my project photos and google sheet if anyone os interested
Hi Gustavo. Would be happy to discuss and review your calculations - you can send me an email at nikgdrummer@gmail.com. For the public record, basically you want to map out your weight distribution in a 2d plane, where the plane is based on the size of your platform. Place the weights of yourself, your drums all on a grid, and then calculate the centre points where the weight is balanced for the x and y axis. From there the goal is to distribute the sylomer pads equally around these centrepoints to ensure the weight is equally distributed onto the sylomer pads.
Dude read Sylomer datasheet. 0.11 kg/cm2 is MAXIMUM for static load of SR11
I'm curious to know how this would perform with a wood apartment? My apartment is 100yrs old and is completely made of wood except for the brick on the outside. Is concrete or wood better for sound isolation and vibrations? I would imagine wood to be much worse at vibrations since it's lighter and more resonant.
concrete is better, since it's denser, wood is much worse at blocking sound transmission
Yes wood is not as dense as concrete, so would most likely allow more noise transmission. The other issue with wood is there may be small air gaps between the planks. Even if the gaps were sealed, over time timber can change shape and create new gaps, which would allow more noise through
I am looking to buy an e drumset for about 2 grand. I really have stupid neighbours and i am living on a second floor. Is there a way to silience the noise to maximum. I would play it about 8 hours a day.
I've had one for a few months in an apartment and some dumb c*** has still complaining even tho its an electric roland (they've been talked to but still not worth more stress) so I've just bought several rolls of impact absorbing rubber matting and am going to sandwich the platform between 2 layers and hopefully that will be better
Building a drum platform with sylomer will most definitely help. The tennis ball method works too but is not as predictable in its effect.
I've had one for a few months and some dumb c*** has still complaining even tho its an electric roland so I've just bought several rolls of impact absorbing rubber matting and am going to sandwich the platform between 2 layers and hopefully that will be better
Hope it works for you bro. Like I mentioned in the video the key to any system is it's predictability and sylomer has measurements which aid you in designing the system to be optimised for your setup. You will still achieve some dampening however with the rubber matting. Hopefully enough to prevent the noise disturbing your neighbour. Electric kits can still be pretty loud especially the way us drummer stomp on those pedals :D
Rubber bass drums are very loud considering they are supposed to be. A more effective option would be to change the beater or use a different head.
Absolutely. Mesh is far quiter.
Cool informative video! But do you have a clue how big a difference there is if you compare an appartment with your dads house? My expirience is that houses are not as isolated between floors as apartments.
I'd say you are correct, on average apartment have higher noise transmission standards. If I were to guess, There might be a 10db difference. Note though that apartments would reduce airbone noise transmission more than structural noise transmission (which is the main issue with electric drums in an apartment)
Problem I have noticed that you were playing in an empty room. Empty rooms amplifies the sounds in that empty space whereas if you have a bunch of stuff just like a regular stuffed filled with instruments and a bed will calm the sounds down.
Firstly that's not the point of the video. Second it is a controlled variable because the room setup stays the same between tests.
For your platform to actualy work, it needs some kind of vibration absorbtion.
The way You made Your platform is just extension of a sound as it has nothing to absorb vibrations .
Example: put your ear on a table. Now smack table corner. This is what happened with your platform.
No foam paddings between plates, washing machine rug, Cork, Tennis balls, Sylomer 11 or other isolation methods were applied.
You just drilled piece of wood with piece of wood with nothing in between. Yes it is a platform, but NO, it is not for sound isolation.
There is sylomer between the platform frame and the ground...
@@nikgdrums
03:03 i don't see any Sylomer here.
Even if You put 4 pieces of Sylomer on a corners (of camera), it does not distribute the weight even on a platform.
You need to calculate the weight and correct placement for it, as too much or too less pressure does not make Sylomer 11 work.
Keep in mind Your own weight and every piece of equipment on a plaform and platform weight itself.
Check ''Vdrum Tips'' video ''E-Drum Noise Isolation Platform - Tutorial''. It might be a good start.
Fascinating. I live in a flat with pretty thin walls. I play on mesh pads only. The kick and the hi-hat pedal simply create too much noise. A hi-hat works well also when played with a mesh pad. I put a chopstick in my beater and stuck a Tennis faom ball on it, then even stuck a real mesh pad on the rubber pad of the original kick- so like that, even a beater is almost noiseless. Crashes and the ride can be played wonderfully on mesh pads (the feel on the ride is amazing, when the curves are set correctly). Really happy with the setup. Mesh only! Respect your neighbors!
Anyone know where to get sylomer in the US?